Poly Marriage

[azurebonds]

I am just thinking about how non-religious polygamy (see clarification 1) could work in the USA without a marriage license.

I am assuming that most states would be fine with polyamorous relationships, living together and even acknowledging ourselves as spouses. My understanding is that you just can’t file for an additional marriage license.

That marriage license does grant a lot of privileges and rights that an unrecognized marriage would not. I would hope that some of these things would have been worked through by various poly people over the years.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Clarifications:
1. I know that polyamory is not polygamy, but surely it could change into that on a case by case basis.
2. I am thinking years down the road. I am just thinking about it so that I can plan.
3. I completely acknowledge that I am deep within NRE.
4. I acknowledge that my judgment is compromised by having BPD, but I am under regular treatment.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello azurebonds,

I've heard that LLC's and LLP's are possible substitutes for a marriage that would be illegal, however I don't grasp the details about how such things work. In polyamory, you would certainly want a handfasting/commitment ceremony to formalize the second marriage you could not have in terms of the law.

In my V, I am the male who is not legally married to the female. However we have power of attorney, and living wills and such, that clarify our relationship with each other. These are things that you would probably want to look into. Do your research.

Regards,
Kevin T.

 

[Bobbi]

I have had a monogamous non legal marriage for financial reasons. I have very expensive medical needs that would leave me and my partner in perpetual debt without an ability for me to get financial assistance. The only thing we didn't get were tax benefits but the amount saved in medical bills far outweighs the tax benefits.

We have power of attorneys, wills and legal documents that afford the other benefits. These can be easily ended without expensive divorce and we get to tailor our legal entanglement the way we choose instead of getting the group package that the government put together (which I prefer and think most people should do. Prenups are a GOOD thing if done together for the benefit of the parties involved.)

I am now on my second life partnership (this one in polyamory) and have made the same legal arrangements. There's always a way to do what you want....mostly. you can find a way to make it work for you but I cannot stress enough to let go of the word marriage. The government has made that have legal meaning as does wife and husband. In some states you can get away with it in others it's fraud or even a felony. Even in Utah you can live together and otherwise have a life partnership but use the words married, or call multiple women "wife" is to be committing a crime...the law there is specific to multiple wives, not husbands.

Marriage no longer means a life commitment between two people. It means a legal contract between two people and the state that provides certain instant benefits.

Create your own partnerships with your own commitments and shared benefits that don't involve the government. Some poly couples even get divorced to create these new partnerships to establish a more egalitarian approach.

 

[ref2018]

I am just thinking about how non-religious polygamy (see clarification 1) could work in the USA without a marriage license.

I am assuming that most states would be fine with polyamorous relationships, living together and even acknowledging ourselves as spouses. My understanding is that you just can’t file for an additional marriage license.

That marriage license does grant a lot of privileges and rights that an unrecognized marriage would not. I would hope that some of these things would have been worked through by various poly people over the years.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Simple. The answer to everything is this: Move to Somerville, Cambridge, or Arlington, Massachusetts, establish your domestic partnership(s), then wherever you go after that, employers, insurance, etc. will be forced to honor your pre-existing domestic partnerships. At least that's what this article says. The only thing is that you're not allowed to be legally *married* to anyone, so you'll have to get a divorce.

 

[azurebonds]

I have had a monogamous non legal marriage for financial reasons. I have very expensive medical needs that would leave me and my partner in perpetual debt without an ability for me to get financial assistance. The only thing we didn't get were tax benefits but the amount saved in medical bills far outweighs the tax benefits.

We have power of attorneys, wills and legal documents that afford the other benefits. These can be easily ended without expensive divorce and we get to tailor our legal entanglement the way we choose instead of getting the group package that the government put together (which I prefer and think most people should do. Prenups are a GOOD thing if done together for the benefit of the parties involved.)

I am now on my second life partnership (this one in polyamory) and have made the same legal arrangements. There's always a way to do what you want....mostly. you can find a way to make it work for you but I cannot stress enough to let go of the word marriage. The government has made that have legal meaning as does wife and husband. In some states you can get away with it in others it's fraud or even a felony. Even in Utah you can live together and otherwise have a life partnership but use the words married, or call multiple women "wife" is to be committing a crime...the law there is specific to multiple wives, not husbands.

Marriage no longer means a life commitment between two people. It means a legal contract between two people and the state that provides certain instant benefits.

Create your own partnerships with your own commitments and shared benefits that don't involve the government. Some poly couples even get divorced to create these new partnerships to establish a more egalitarian approach.

That’s what I was thinking as well, just abandon the concept of marriage completely and setup legal agreements.

I had a similar thought about legal marriage. Your phrasing of “group package that the government put together” is perfect.

Is calling each other “husband” and “wife” really that much of an issue? I know that they’d both prefer that label, especially my wife.

 

[Ariakas]

Hello azurebonds,

I've heard that LLC's and LLP's are possible substitutes for a marriage that would be illegal, however I don't grasp the details about how such things work. In polyamory, you would certainly want a handfasting/commitment ceremony to formalize the second marriage you could not have in terms of the law.

In my V, I am the male who is not legally married to the female. However we have power of attorney, and living wills and such, that clarify our relationship with each other. These are things that you would probably want to look into. Do your research.

Regards,
Kevin T.

I was coming here to say this. LLC's are usually used for the financial sharing.

I was in a quad, in bc canada, the law is getting... aligned with regular marriage. In the next couple of years, if you are living as a polycule, the entire cule has fiscal responsibility upon break up to support the remaining cule. There will be no difference except for the lack of christian marriage.

 

[Ariakas]

That’s what I was thinking as well, just abandon the concept of marriage completely and setup legal agreements.

I had a similar thought about legal marriage. Your phrasing of “group package that the government put together” is perfect.

Is calling each other “husband” and “wife” really that much of an issue? I know that they’d both prefer that label, especially my wife.

My ex got sticky with those terms. Even mother. My wife raised her 3 kids as their mom but my ex absolutely refused to share the label.

I am struggling with this right now. My current gf and I have feelings for each other that have outgrown bf/gf. Trying to find the language for that is tough, and I am someone who likes labels.

My wife and gf also date and have none of those same bearings. They dont have a label. We, and they just periodically end up in love puddles.

 

[icesong]

I was coming here to say this. LLC's are usually used for the financial sharing.

I was in a quad, in bc canada, the law is getting... aligned with regular marriage. In the next couple of years, if you are living as a polycule, the entire cule has fiscal responsibility upon break up to support the remaining cule. There will be no difference except for the lack of christian marriage.

Wow. Cue a LOT of people never moving in together…

 

[Ariakas]

Wow. Cue a LOT of people never moving in together…

Yep. Here is the crux too. Right now if I divorce my wife, she gets 50% of my life. Well deserved and absolutely needed. No argument

If I was in a poly marriage... in a house... the lowest to no earner (no gender), in theory with a good lawyer, could get 50% of all other incomes.

Folks need to be very very aware of this, if you go in eyes wide open, good for you. But I know for me, cul du sac with three homes each of us financially independent is my only solution moving forward.

 

[Bobbi]

Is calling each other “husband” and “wife” really that much of an issue? I know that they’d both prefer that label, especially my wife.

It can be, depending on the state. Using husband or wife is indicative of legal marriage.

In some places, living together as a couple and calling each other husband and wife and living as spouses indicates marriage. In states with common law, you will be married if you do that and are breaking the law if you have more than one. In others, it doesn't become legal, but can be seen as fraud because you are purporting to be husband and wife when you legally aren't.

Just find new ways to express. It's hard to give up those titles because of monogamous programming and couple's privilege. But that is the only thing those words give you. Your partners may want to reflect on why it's so important to have that title. Why isn't an amazing relationship more important than a title?

For most it's because they think their relationship won't be taken seriously by others. Fuck what others think. They will take you seriously when you enforce people taking you seriously.

Personally, I'd like to go back to marriage being a commitment, without government intervention, where husband and wife could be used, and if you want a legal contract with the government and the benefits that entails then you have a civil union... You can combine and have both, but the legal part would not be called marriage. And it could be between any 2 people without any need for romantic relationship. Parent/ child, siblings, cousins or best friends to share the benefits and even offer hope for care givers, disabled or those with health issues.

 

[azurebonds]

Yep. Here is the crux too. Right now if I divorce my wife, she gets 50% of my life. Well deserved and absolutely needed. No argument

If I was in a poly marriage... in a house... the lowest to no earner (no gender), in theory with a good lawyer, could get 50% of all other incomes.

Folks need to be very very aware of this, if you go in eyes wide open, good for you. But I know for me, cul du sac with three homes each of us financially independent is my only solution moving forward.

I kind of fear setting up multiple houses because I am constrained by space at the moment with one house.

Knowing me, I fear I would end up with a lover in every house, definitely changing the concept of “neighborly love.”

Come one, come all to my free love commune. First house on me. lol

 

[Ariakas]

I kind of fear setting up multiple houses because I am constrained by space at the moment with one house.

Knowing me, I fear I would end up with a lover in every house, definitely changing the concept of “neighborly love.”

Come one, come all to my free love commune. First house on me. lol

There was a setup I quite liked, where there is communal living area, surrounded by rooms and folks would sleep where they want and/or there was a fuck room.

If I didn't have sleep anxiety that might have been cool

However once I owned a house with a quad and ... well lets just say its not ideal unless everyone is contributing equitably in some way.

 

[azurebonds]

It can be depending on the state. Using husband or wife is indicative of legal marriage.

In some places living together as a couple and calling each other husband and wife and living as spouses indicates marriage. In states with common law, you will be married if you do that and are breaking the law if you have more than one. In others, it doesn't become legal but can be seen as fraud because you are proporting to be husband and wife when you legally aren't.

Just find new ways to express. It's hard to give up those titles because of monogamy programming and couples privilege. But that is the only thing those words give you. Your partners may want to reflect on why it's so important to have that title. Why isn't an amazing relationship more important than a title?

For most it's because they think their relationship won't be taken seriously by others. Fuck what others think. They will take you seriously when you enforce people taking you seriously.

Personally, I'd like to go back to marriage being a commitment, without government intervention, where husband and wife could be used, and if you want a legal contract with the government and the benefits that entails then you have a civil union.....you can combine and have both but the legal part would not be called marriage and it could be between any 2 people without any need for romantic relationship. Parent/ child, siblings, cousins or best friends to share the benefits and even offer hope for care givers, disabled or those with health issues.

I definitely don’t want to fall afoul of the law. I may have to speak with a lawyer to make sure everything is legal.

I am not personally committed to the titles, though it does make it easier to speak and be accepted by society. I will have to ask them about it.

I am not saying our struggles with this are worse than say, gay marriage, or that poly is or isn’t LGBTQ+; however, I have to ask, if marriage isn’t important, why is it such a sticking point for society?

 

[Albert Ross]

But I know for me, cul du sac with three homes each of us financially independent is my only solution moving forward.

Yeeeah. Aside from not really wanting to cohabitate again, oh boy do I ever not want to entangle my finances with a partner if I don't have to. (am also in BC, by the way. )

 

[Ariakas]

Yeeeah. Aside from not really wanting to cohabitate again, oh boy do I ever not want to entangle my finances with a partner if I don't have to. (am also in BC, by the way. )

Me too ...

And no never ever ever cohab outside my immediate family again

 

[Bobbi]

I definitely don’t want to fall afoul of the law. I may have to speak with a lawyer to make sure everything is legal.

I am not personally committed to the titles, though it does make it easier to speak and be accepted by society. I will have to ask them about it.

I am not saying our struggles with this are worse than say gay marriage or that poly is or isn’t LGBTQ+; however, I have to ask, if marriage isn’t important, why is it such a sticking point for society?

I think "Partner" is becoming way more used and accepted throughout communities as we throw out gender norms.

 

[Bobbi]

Yeeeah. Aside from not really wanting to cohabitate again, oh boy do I ever not want to entangle my finances with a partner if I don't have to. (am also in BC, by the way. )

I'm cool with cohabitating but not mixing finances. It isn't needed and causes way more problems than it's worth. There's really no reason to do it at all. You can still help a partner financially, if you want to, without mingling.

 

[Kynde]

Yep. Here is the crux too. Right now if I divorce my wife, she gets 50% of my life. Well deserved and absolutely needed. No argument

If I was in a poly marriage... in a house... the lowest to no earner (no gender), in theory with a good lawyer, could get 50% of all other incomes.

Folks need to be very very aware of this, if you go in eyes wide open, good for you. But I know for me, cul du sac with three homes each of us financially independent is my only solution moving forward.

I would love to know more about the second paragraph-- how would that work?

I'm currently in a tiny home on the property of the married couple that I consider my life partners. Technically I'm now a squatter LOL with legal rights and it would be hard to kick me off the property without a lot of headache. Not that we are even considering that, we are happy.

I just signed Medical POA paperwork with Sir as my MPOA and back up person is my adult child.
Sir and Meow are going to state in their will that if I am the last one living, I can live on the property for the remainder of my natural life, and only then can it be passed down to their adult children. I have no interest in inheriting the land but I would like to keep my home as long as I'm alive.

 

[Kynde]

Yeeeah. Aside from not really wanting to cohabitate again, oh boy do I ever not want to entangle my finances with a partner if I don't have to. (am also in BC, by the way. )

I have the best of both worlds, by living in my tiny home next to the main house. I'm close enough that we walk back and forth to the two homes, but mine can be removed if things don't work out--- and extra privacy. ;-) I have control over my living quarters, too. Honestly I am an introvert when not at work, so it's nice to have my own space for many reasons.

And agreed about the mixing of finances!!! I pay my fair share of expenses but that's it. Even my partners, who are a married couple, have their own separate bank accounts.

 

[Albert Ross]

There's really no reason to do it at all. You can still help a partner financially, if you want to, without mingling.

This exactly.

I have the best of both worlds, by living in my tiny home next to the main house.

I'm not gonna lie: having my own living space on the same property as a partner is sort of my (completely unrealistic in the utterly unaffordable location where I live) dream arrangement. Like, I'm not opposed to spending a lot of my time with someone, I just need to have complete control over where I eat and sleep and bathe.