Poly/Mono really need advice on ethics

[CrushedIce]

I am new to the discovery of this lifestyle, even though I have been in relationships where my actions should have clued me in I just always believed people when they said I was being "greedy" or being judged for my needs or desires. It is my first year of marriage and I chose to have an honest discussion with her when a mutual friend brought up polyamory and a lot of things started falling into place with understanding my past. My partner who I will call K is monogamous and not at all enthusiastic about the idea of sharing me with anyone. It has led to a lot of fights and a lot of confusion, where we desperately want to be together but we seem at complete odds. It is clear compromise is needed, but what are the options? Either K bends, or I do, and what would that look like? What are the options? I do not want anything to begin while she feels this way about it, I want her to see the benefits it could bring into our relationships and she is having a very hard time seeing how it could benefit at all. She does not want to commit to our marriage if she can't imagine her feelings changing about it as she does not want me repressing any feelings I am having, and I am so concerned with her feelings that this is incredibly hard. We somewhat discussed rules before it became mostly fighting and pain. The veto power to say no to a partner, K wants this and I am wary of it being used just because she feels threatened when I start to really like someone. I do not know how to say no veto power without making her more insecure about what I want. K also brought up that if I want to meet up with someone I have been talking to, that she wants to be allowed to read my messages with the potential new partner and know everything we have said and talked about. I really need advice on this, I don't like the idea of this at all, and also do not know how to express this without causing more insecurity. It seems too controlling or am I just being biased? I can see it will be an uphill battle regardless, as our wants are very different, but I can also see that it's a very common relationship type and I am wondering what helped everyone in the beginning? How to approach the idea of introducing someone new, when your current partner doesn't seem to have any desire for it? It is holding me back from exploring, and from being comfortable at all if I'm being honest and I feel like being myself is causing me to lose someone that I love dearly and have for 12 years, thanks in advance

 

[SEASONEDpolyAgain]

K has to do her own reading around polyamory so she understands how things like veto power (and using it) can backfire and destroy the established relationship. Or why reading someone's messages are a breach of their privacy. That doesn't mean she will agree to polyamory if she understands, it might convince her that it's simply not for her.

You may just be too incompatible to move forward as a couple.

 

[Dagferi]

Your partner is opposed to poly.

You could:

• go back too being in a monogamous relationship.
• Agree to back off the idea and do some research together until it is a joyous yes for everone.
• you could try and continue forward despite your partners feelings.
• you could decide that you two are not compatible and go your separate ways.

Honestly why would you want to hurt and cause emotional fire storm to someone you love. Sometimes when you love someone you have to realize you are not compatible and let them go. The pain of a break up hurts at first but gets better. Where as forcing a monogamous partner into a poly relationship especially with the demands your partner has is just going to hurt everyone. Why would you drag a third party into a shit show where they have no say or privacy in their own relationship. Any poly person will run screaming from that situation.

Now is not the time for polyamory for you.

 

[GalaGirl]

I am sorry you struggle. I mean all this kindly, ok?

My partner who I will call K is monogamous and not at all enthusiastic about the idea of sharing me with anyone.

Well, there it is it. "Monogamous" to me means that K only wants to be in a relationship model of 2 people. K and her sweetie. That's it.

Do you not view monogamy that way?

Why are you unwilling to hear and respect K's answer on that?

If you want a different model? You have to bow out of this one. Stop taking up K's sweetie spot, painful as it is, and bow out. Be good exes and friends instead.

It has led to a lot of fights and a lot of confusion, where we desperately want to be together but we seem at complete odds. It is clear compromise is needed, but what are the options?

If you want polyamory and K wants monogamy? That's not a shared value. They are opposites. You are not deeply compatible as spouses.

Neither is bad for wanting what they want.

But I think it is more important to value "the health of the people" than value "save the marriage at all costs." Some costs are too great. You each have to be able to say "I love you a whole lot. But I will not stay in something that hurts me. I have to love me too."

If you are in a monogamous marriage that no longer fits you? And you want to be in right relationship with K? You have to stop being married. Practice a relationship shape with K that does fit and does not require you to shrink who you are.

It goes the other way. Asking K to be someone K is not and practice polyamory when K is just not into that? That's asking K to shrink who they are. That's not right either.

Either K bends, or I do, and what would that look like? What are the options?

Another option is to accept you are incompatible for marriage together and end the marriage. Choose to be exes and friends. "Friends" may be an easier relationship model to uphold that does NOT require either of you to compromise your true selves, your preferences, or your values. Then you are free TO pursue poly as you want and K can be free FROM poly like K wants. Compromise there.

I do not want anything to begin while she feels this way about it, I want her to see the benefits it could bring into our relationships and she is having a very hard time seeing how it could benefit at all.

If her preferred relationship shape is Monogamy (2 people only. K and her sweetie)... Explain how participating in a model that is NOT her prefered model benefits her?

I am not able to see it myself. What do you think the benefits of going against her preferences would be?

She does not want to commit to our marriage if she can't imagine her feelings changing about it as she does not want me repressing any feelings I am having.

Fair enough. She is stating where she stands honestly.

Do you not want same? To stop repressing your feelings? To not have K shrink herself and be put into an ill-fitting relationship shape either?

I do not know how to say no veto power without making her more insecure about what I want.

You sound like you want polyamory, no veto, and not looking in your phone. Speak honestly and state your position plain.

I wonder if you are hesitant to do that because deep down you know this is not a tenable situation. And you are sad about it.

This would have all been better to come out before marriage during the engagement time or even before engagement when you were dating. But alas... it is here now. So you guys deal with it now.

K also brought up that if I want to meet up with someone I have been talking to, that she wants to be allowed to read my messages with the potential new partner and know everything we have said and talked about. I really need advice on this, I don't like the idea of this at all, and also do not know how to express this without causing more insecurity

Does that mean you have already been looking for potentials while still in a Closed, monogamous marriage?

Could speak plain. "No. I don't like the idea of that at all. I don't want you reading my phone. I'm not going to meet anyone. I want to talk about ending the marriage with grace. I cannot do monogamy any more and you do not want poly. I want to be respectful. I would like us to be good exes and friends. This is sad and horrible but I don't want to make it worse where one or the other of us is bending themselves into pretzels."

Is this a marriage where you guys can speak plain? If not... why not?

It seems too controlling or am I just being biased? I can see it will be an uphill battle regardless, as our wants are very different, but I can also see that it's a very common relationship type and I am wondering what helped everyone in the beginning?

Is that what you want to be doing with K? Uphill battle? Why not skip the battle?

To me? It is NOT common for a (polyamorous + polygamous person) and a (monoamorous + monogamous person) to work out.

If there are "toggles" for "love style" and "relationship style?"

• There is monoamorous -- the desire or capacity to love 1 sweetie.
• There is polyamorous -- the desire or capacity to love more than 1 sweetie.
• There is (for lack of a better word) "love style flexible" -- just 1 or more than 1 partners to love is fine.

• There is monogamous -- the desired for the relationship shape to have 2 people only.
  
• There is polyamorous -- the desire for the relationship shape to be some kind of poly arrangement -- a V, a triad, a quad, etc. More than 2 people.
  
• And there is "relationship shape flexible" -- where the person is fine being in whatever model.

I think "mono-poly" only works when the "mono" person is (monoamorous +relationship shape flexible). They can do either monogamy shape or poly shape so long as they get their 1 sweetie. This is NOT K. K sounds monoamorous (wants 1 sweetie) and monogamous (relationship shape that is 2 people only.)

Or mono-poly works when the poly person is polyamorous + relationship shape flexible. So long as they can talk about their poly thoughts and feelings, they are ok in a Closed relationship that is just 2 people.

I think it would be cruel to keep pressing a person who wants monogamy into poly. Just as it would be cruel to press a person who wants poly into monogamy.

If K is firmly monogamous? Accept it and don't harangue. It's sad to discover this late in the day after a year of marriage that no... you are not compatible after all.

But better now than much later on! I encourage you guys to have the conversations you need to be having.

How to approach the idea of introducing someone new, when your current partner doesn't seem to have any desire for it?

You have already broached poly. It is unwanted. What do you hope to gain by bringing up over and over to K? Wear K down with it? Harangue until K gives up? How would that be kind or loving behavior?

It is holding me back from exploring, and from being comfortable at all if I'm being honest and I feel like being myself is causing me to lose someone that I love dearly and have for 12 years.

I think what is holding you back is not your partner K. It is your own unwillingness to move forward WITHOUT K.

I think you could go ahead and be yourself. And rather than keep on pushing poly on K when it is so unwanted? Change the conversation to how to part ways and disband the marriage as amicably as possible. Then explore how you want.

Trust that if you have loved each other dearly for 12 years you can figure out how to be (good exes and friends) and still be in each other lives in a way that doesn't require anyone to be compromising WHO THEY ARE.

Because no matter how much you love each other? You have to be able to say "I love you a whole lot. But not even for you will I do stuff or stay in stuff that is hurting me."
And this is hurting you both.

Nobody has to be "lost." Become ok being exes and friends. That is my suggestion.

Don't fight and argue so much over this that you ruin being able to BE good exes and friends. I've seen some people do that -- fight hammer and tongs because they are hell bent on "saving the marriage" or "being right" or "getting my way" or whatever. And really what ends up happening is that they end up losing respect/love for each other, hurting each other badly, and break up anyway.... but rather than gracefully they do it UGLY.

And then you really have lost all hope of any kind of relationship with each other. It's just plain exes.

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hello CrushedIce,

I am thinking that living polyamorously is a bit like being pregnant. You can't be halfway pregnant. And you can't live halfway polyamorously. So I'm not sure how you could compromise on that point. Unless you mean that it's a compromise if K has veto power and gets to read all your phone messages. That's not the kind of compromise you want, but it's the kind of compromise K wants. And what if you agreed to that? K would probably still dislike poly, and would veto every single person you wanted to date. I think maybe you are looking for other ways to compromise, and I'm struggling to think of some. What could you do, be poly every other month? break up with all your dating partners after a month? What about a DADT agreement, could you do that? Could you only date once every other week, and that only on a weekday? Could you date and but not have sex with the people you date? Could you up the amount of dates you have with K? I don't know what would make poly acceptable to her.

Technically, the idea of her reading all your phone messages is ethically doable: *if* you get permission first from the people who sent you the messages. If someone doesn't want to give you permission, then I guess you don't meet up with that person. Is that part of a compromise you'd be willing to do?

You want K to see the benefits poly could bring into your relationships. What do *you* think the benefits are? Can you make a list? Can you share that list with K?

It is not necessarily greedy of you to want to live polyamorously. It's just that you and K have differing wants in that area. You should try to determine whether you and K are compatible. I know you desperately want to be together, but what if your differences are irreconcilable?

If you are determined to stay on as K's partner, I guess you'll have to hold off on practicing poly, while discussing poly with K every now and then, perhaps once a week or once a month. If you're lucky, these discussions will eventually lead to K becoming more accepting of poly, perhaps after a year. How long would you be willing to wait in this fashion?

I hope you and K can work things out.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[KC43]

Poly/mono *can* work... but it *takes* work. It also takes a ton of communication, compromise, and understanding.

Compromise means sometimes meeting halfway...but not always. Sometimes compromise looks like, "I'll give you this if you give me that." Compromise does *not* look like, "I want to be polyamorous, so you have to accept me being polyamorous."

My husband considers himself monogamous. He does not want another partner. He does not want another relationship. He just wants to be married to me, and considers that sufficient. However, he has no problem at all with the fact that I am polyamorous--a fact I wouldn't have discovered in the first place if he hadn't suggested I see other people in order to meet some needs I had that he was unable and/or unwilling to meet. And that's part of the key for why it's worked for us for the past six years: *He* suggested I see other people. I didn't say, "Hey, I'm poly and I want to see others," and he reluctantly agreed. *He* said, "You're right, it isn't fair that you aren't getting those needs met, so I'm okay with you seeing other guys to meet them." (And it took him a week to convince me he was serious and genuinely didn't have a problem with the idea.)

It doesn't sound like your wife is okay with it. Not even close.

As far as your ethics question: Veto power has a strong potential to be used in an unethical or harmful way. Any other partners you have would essentially be disposable, because your wife could say she doesn't want you to see them, and you would have to end the relationship. To me, it's also unethical because you're allowing someone who is *not* directly involved in the relationship to have control over the relationship. Anyone controlling someone else, unless it's part of a negotiated dynamic, seems unethical to me.

Allowing your wife to read your messages with other people is unethical because it is a breach of the other person's privacy. The only way for it not to be unethical is if you tell the other person, "My wife is going to read all of our messages" and they say, "Sure, I'm okay with that." Even then, if they're only agreeing to it because they know they can't be in a relationship with you otherwise, it's somewhat unethical because they're agreeing under duress, not because they actually want to have your wife read the messages.

And trying to shoe horn someone into a relationship style they are uncomfortable and fearful about, and accepting an agreement to that relationship style based on "I can only have you if I do this, so I guess I have no choice," is also unethical, in my opinion.

Your only way to "compromise" with your wife about this seems to be to give in to her requests--which are unethical because they will affect people who are not involved in the decision-making process and won't have any option to negotiate about it. Other than that, you're right; either she caves and goes along with the poly thing, or you cave and go back to being monogamous. It sounds like neither one of you would be happy with either of those scenarios. So realistically, the least harmful and most ethical way to handle it would be to break up so that each of you can find a partner who is compatible in the desired style of relationship.

 

[CrushedIce]

I very much appreciate everyone for trying to break down what I said and offer insight, sometimes hard truths are needed and I appreciate the forwardness and being honest.

K has to do her own reading around polyamory so she understands how things like veto power (and using it) can backfire and destroy the established relationship. Or why reading someone's messages are a breach of their privacy. That doesn't mean she will agree to polyamory if she understands, it might convince her that it's simply not for her.

You may just be too incompatible to move forward as a couple.

I have definitely been urging her to do some reading when she feels comfortable so that she can make informed decisions and fully know where she stands and where we can go from here. She currently doesn't feel ready to read about it yet

• go back too being in a monogamous relationship.
• Agree to back off the idea and do some research together until it is a joyous yes for everone.
• you could try and continue forward despite your partners feelings.
• you could decide that you two are not compatible and go your separate ways.

Honestly why would you want to hurt and cause emotional fire storm to someone you love. Sometimes when you love someone you have to realize you are not compatible and let them go. The pain of a break up hurts at first but gets better. Where as forcing a monogamous partner into a poly relationship especially with the demands your partner has is just going to hurt everyone. Why would you drag a third party into a shit show where they have no say or privacy in their own relationship. Any poly person will run screaming from that situation.

Now is not the time for polyamory for you.

The option to just go back to monogamy does not seem like a real suggestion, I do not want that and she also won't allow us to do that. She may not like this very much but she doesn't want either of us living unhappily either. Same with moving forward without her consent, also not an option to me. It is very important to me that she stays whole and okay throughout, if that is a possibility. You make it sound like I want to be hurting her and I think I have been pretty clear I am trying my absolute best not to do that, and to keep her included and feeling safe. I think what I may take from this response is that we can do more research together and see what we can gather from that while backing off from it.

Well, there it is it. "Monogamous" to me means that K only wants to be in a relationship model of 2 people. K and her sweetie. That's it.

Do you not view monogamy that way?
Why are you unwilling to hear and respect K's answer on that?

It is not that I am unwilling to hear her, but more that she has expressed she feels she could come around if given some time, that maybe she just needs to be able to wrap her mind around it and gain a new perspective. It is confusing to me but has also given me some hope, that maybe she can. Do you not believe someone can alter their perspective in such a way, in a healthy way?
The health of both of us is very important to me, I am happy you say that. We aren't going to try to save the marriage at all costs even if we are unhappy, we are just trying incredibly hard to be happy together.

If you are in a monogamous marriage that no longer fits you? And you want to be in right relationship with K? You have to stop being married. Practice a relationship shape with K that does fit and does not require you to shrink who you are.
It goes the other way. Asking K to be someone K is not and practice polyamory when K is just not into that? That's asking K to shrink who they are. That's not right either.

What if she is right, and she could be into it? I never want to make anyone shrink who they are to be with me and I just need to believe her when she says she thinks it is possible to make it work. Do you think it is us deluding ourselves or is it an actual possibility to change our relationship type and stay together? Would you say regardless I need to end my marriage? I really really don't want to do that

If her preferred relationship shape is Monogamy (2 people only. K and her sweetie)... Explain how participating in a model that is NOT her prefered model benefits her?
I am not able to see it myself. What do you think the benefits of going against her preferences would be?

I would like to think eventually we would grow and mature to a certain point where there could be benefits of us feeling closer and more intimate, not taking any moments for granted, freedom for hobbies and not being so co dependent, self confidence and feeling enlightened, losing the weight of jealousy and feeling like there can only be one, and having to be the best one etc. I feel like so many people could benefit from letting that go and putting so many restrictions on their partner. Maybe I am wrong in this but I feel like eventually she would feel more comfortable the more it's proven to her that it is possible to love more than one person without us falling apart. Her biggest fear is that I will replace her with this new person and leave her behind, and I think if that is the biggest issue it seems easy to show her it's not true.

Do you not want same? To stop repressing your feelings? To not have K shrink herself and be put into an ill-fitting relationship shape either?

I really do want good things for both of us, but we were supposed to be forever and I can't just let it go, it's hard to even remember what it was like to be just her best friend all those years, It seems impossible to go back. It seems easier to try this with her than lose her forever.

Does that mean you have already been looking for potentials while still in a Closed, monogamous marriage?

NO!! Not at all, only in the ways of pursuing it by talking with that friend that started all of this, or reading about it online, this forum is the farthest I have taken anything, I really mean it that I want her to be okay first. We have a good marriage where we are mostly best friends and amazing lovers, our chemistry is insane and no way to ever just be friends it feels. We can speak plainly and openly, it has just become hard with this subject because what I say hurts her if I'm not really careful, and her reactions hurt me when she isn't meaning to and that is hard to deal with. She has been wanting to discuss it with me, it hasn't been me pestering her to face it type thing, she doesn't want to ignore how I feel as well.

I think "mono-poly" only works when the "mono" person is (monoamorous +relationship shape flexible). They can do either monogamy shape or poly shape so long as they get their 1 sweetie. This is NOT K. K sounds monoamorous (wants 1 sweetie) and monogamous (relationship shape that is 2 people only.)

Would it be totally crazy to think maybe she could be that based on things she has been telling me about wanting to see if it could be for her? She says she does not feel pressured by me as I have stressed I don't believe it is a "try and see how it goes" kind of thing, I expressed that I was worried it would ruin us even being friends if she wasn't completely serious about being open without jealousy crushing her. I am so confused.
I am in no way trying to bring it up over and over again until she gives up and gives in, I would never be satisfied having something at that expense. I really do love this girl and yes this relationship type is not the ideal situation for her, but if she is expressing that she doesn't feel it is a deal breaker should I believe that this is true, or trust that it will all blow up due to fundamental differences in the end anyways?

I think what is holding you back is not your partner K. It is your own unwillingness to move forward WITHOUT K.

You hit the nail on the head with that one it kills me. It seems way too painful to undo everything we have created together and walk away, it seems painful to move forward ignoring the poly thing, and it seems painful to move forward wondering how much damage I am doing to her along the way if we try. I just feel like shutting down about it all, it is too much

 

[CrushedIce]

kdt26417 Those are some very good points and definitely got me thinking about it in a different way. Doesn't seem like there can be much compromise but it is worth us having a discussion about what could make it acceptable to her, without veto or going through every conversation. I would love to hope over time the need to control and that jealousy would become less and less or ideally not even be that hard once it is happening. Maybe I am crazy

You want K to see the benefits poly could bring into your relationships. What do *you* think the benefits are? Can you make a list? Can you share that list with K?

I have shared some of the benefits I see but the struggle is that she doesn't quite feel the same way, but can admit that it does sound nice and freeing, to be so open and comfortable sharing, the level of intimacy created and how strong the relationship could become from all the work and love we would be putting into it. I think a huge benefit is healthier, happier people that live without shame that society puts on people for not fitting into the manogomy relationship type. I'm not sure if these benefits are things she could ever see how I do, but I do hope.
I am willing to give her time and wait, I am just scared and unsure how long I should and if we will be capable of calling it when it's actually irreconcilable and impossible

 

[CrushedIce]

It doesn't sound like your wife is okay with it. Not even close.

As far as your ethics question: Veto power has a strong potential to be used in an unethical or harmful way. Any other partners you have would essentially be disposable, because your wife could say she doesn't want you to see them, and you would have to end the relationship. To me, it's also unethical because you're allowing someone who is *not* directly involved in the relationship to have control over the relationship. Anyone controlling someone else, unless it's part of a negotiated dynamic, seems unethical to me.

Allowing your wife to read your messages with other people is unethical because it is a breach of the other person's privacy. The only way for it not to be unethical is if you tell the other person, "My wife is going to read all of our messages" and they say, "Sure, I'm okay with that." Even then, if they're only agreeing to it because they know they can't be in a relationship with you otherwise, it's somewhat unethical because they're agreeing under duress, not because they actually want to have your wife read the messages.

And trying to shoe horn someone into a relationship style they are uncomfortable and fearful about, and accepting an agreement to that relationship style based on "I can only have you if I do this, so I guess I have no choice," is also unethical, in my opinion.

Your only way to "compromise" with your wife about this seems to be to give in to her requests--which are unethical because they will affect people who are not involved in the decision-making process and won't have any option to negotiate about it. Other than that, you're right; either she caves and goes along with the poly thing, or you cave and go back to being monogamous. It sounds like neither one of you would be happy with either of those scenarios. So realistically, the least harmful and most ethical way to handle it would be to break up so that each of you can find a partner who is compatible in the desired style of relationship.

I completely agree with you, this is a pretty logical summary. Posting in this forum opened up a new way to communicate with K and helped me to have a healthier discussion about it with her. She did agree that her requests were about having control and that she was struggling with letting go of control and letting go of overly jealous feelings of sharing. She feels if I were to give her more time she could have more knowledge and MAYBE be comfortable with it. This hurts me but a glimmer of hope is worth hanging in here for, if it means we could find a way to make it possible. It sound like you are in an ideal situation, where your hubby suggested it for you. K and I have been best friends since 16 years old, just two girls with a great friendship and slight flirtation, and it ended up being the biggest relationship of my life, I love her intensely and really do want to try, without breaking both of us into pieces. I really don't want to believe we need to split up

 

[kdt26417]

It sounds like there is some hope of K coming around and accepting of poly if you can give her some time to get used to the idea. Hopefully she would be willing to read more about poly, maybe she would even be willing to join this forum (where she can interact with polys and learn more about it). As long as she is working on getting more familiar with it, there is hope that things can eventually work out. You just have to figure out how long is the longest you'd be willing to wait for her to come around. Does that make sense?

 

[GalaGirl]

The health of both of us is very important to me, I am happy you say that. We aren't going to try to save the marriage at all costs even if we are unhappy, we are just trying incredibly hard to be happy together.*

I'm glad to hear you say you value the health of the PEOPLE most.

Perhaps it will work out so you can be happy together doing open marriage/poly of some kind.

At the same time... consider ways to be happy together not married to each other too.

Like hope for the best outcome, and at the same time, prepare for less desirable but still ok outcome.

“Losing her forever” and “not able to imagine going back to friends” seems to be YOUR big fear. Could work on that.

What if she is right, and she could be into it? I never want to make anyone shrink who they are to be with me and I just need to believe her when she says she thinks it is possible to make it work. Do you think it is us deluding ourselves or is it an actual possibility to change our relationship type and stay together?

If she's generally trustworthy and owns it? She says she wants to try? Then believe her and LET her own it. You cannot be doing this if you think you are responsible for making her do stuff or for making her feel things.

You guys may need to do the work of untangling first, esp if you have codependent stuff going on too. I encourage you to talk to a counselor.

https://medium.com/@PolyamorySchool/the-most-skipped-step-when-opening-a-relationship-f1f67abbbd49

Would you say regardless I need to end my marriage? I really really don't want to do that

I will gently say the "old" marriage may be over already. Maybe not legally. But if you guys were married under traditional vows? And now you guys are planning to Open the marriage ? Then you are no long practicing the "old" marriage you each signed up for originally. That one is done.

You are in a transitional space trying to figure out the "new" marriage agreements. It's going to feel WEIRD. Because the “old normal” is gone. And the “new normal” is not here yet. You will need time and space to mourn that loss/change. And it may catch you by surprise. If you aren't even dating other people yet -- why this sense of sadness/loss/doom? Or it may feel up and downy -- like excited for the new thing but experiencing loss of the old thing. But you might not recognize it as grieving for the "old" marriage being over. It's ok to be sad about that, and give selves time to process that.

What you can do is talk about HOW you want to Open -- what skills you could work on first before poly dating. Do that work first to lighten the load while reading and educating selves. Perhaps do more reading together, look at worksheets.

http://openingup.net/resources/free-downloads-from-opening-up/

http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/downloadabledocuments.html

https://www.morethantwo.com/

Maybe you decide not to open at all but be somewhere in between -- closed marriage for her, but more able to talk about your poly thoughts and feelings without her wigging out so you aren't going around bottled up. Then it is more Open for you. Maybe you decide to stay there a while and that's enough. Or you stay there a while and then move on to poly dating.

Could see a poly counselor to help you talk these things out and better prepare. If/when ready to start poly-dating? Set a time frame for trying it on and assess how it is going. What new skills need to be developed. What "success" looks like and what "stop trying, this is just not working" looks like. Could also set a limit.

You aren't going to be “trying” for 50 years like banging heads on wall right? That robs both K and you a chance to simply disband the marriage and move on to more compatible partners and work on being good exes and friends instead.

Talk to counselor about your plan to see if it is realistic and doable.

I would like to think eventually we would grow and mature to a certain point where there could be benefits of us feeling closer and more intimate, not taking any moments for granted, freedom for hobbies and not being so co dependent, self confidence and feeling enlightened, losing the weight of jealousy and feeling like there can only be one, and having to be the best one etc.

Are any of these things that could be solved NOW before opening the marriage? Get them out of the way so the load less?

Like...

• What stops you each from maturing now?
• Why stops you from being close and intimate now?
• What are you taking for granted now?
• Why are you each not doing your hobbies now?
• What's going on with the codependence? What does "healthy relationship" look like to each of you?
• What are each of you jealous about?

However the final outcome? I think working on the things below in green above could help each of you be healthier. You may decide it could be worth the investment.

I feel like so many people could benefit from letting that go and putting so many restrictions on their partner.

What restrictions do you have right now? Are they reasonable requests or unreasonable? Are you able to say "No thank you. I don't want to do that" if K asks you to do stuff you find unreasonable?

Maybe I am wrong in this but I feel like eventually she would feel more comfortable the more it's proven to her that it is possible to love more than one person without us falling apart.

Do you have to do all the proving? What work will she be doing?

Because "us falling apart" is not something you alone can control. You could be fine your part. But if she wigs? Then "us" is not fine. Or vice-versa. She is fine and you wig.

For "us" to be fine, BOTH have to be fine making changes and both have to be fine accepting that change sometimes comes with bumps along the way.

You might have that conversation together and with a counselor. Like "Bumps like THIS? Not FUN but I am willing to try to manage that. Bumps like THIS or THIS often? That's too much load right now."

Her biggest fear is that I will replace her with this new person and leave her behind, and I think if that is the biggest issue it seems easy to show her it's not true.

Why so fearful? What would happen? She'd have to live life on her own and this is scary because...?

I could decide to leave my husband after decades together. He's totally fine with poly. We have kids, a life, etc. I could STILL decide to end it. Or he with me.

What brings the secure feeling is knowing I could cope without him. Not my FAV thing in the world and not likely... but if it happened? I could cope and be ok. I don't have to fear that. I do not NEED to be with him. I WANT to be with him. Does that make sense?

So maybe on her end she could be working on NOT needing you around. Wanting you around -- yes! But not NEEDING you. Because then whether you stay or go off with some new partner -- it is less scary because she already knows she could cope either way.

Talk to counselor about the co-dependent thing. That seems to color a lot here.

I think what is holding you back is not your partner K. It is your own unwillingness to move forward WITHOUT K.

You hit the nail on the head with that one it kills me. It seems way too painful to undo everything we have created together and walk away, it seems painful to move forward ignoring the poly thing, and it seems painful to move forward wondering how much damage I am doing to her along the way if we try. I just feel like shutting down about it all, it is too much

If it all painful and hard? You get to pick your hard.

If you don't want to walk away, and you don't want to ignore the poly thing? And she's willing to try? Then you give it your best try with the understanding that might may or may not work out in the end.

If you want to make changes? There's just going to be the price of admission. Be ok paying it.

You have to rely on faith when you can't on anything else. The faith that actions rooted in good character will yield the best outcome even if you don't see how right now. Learning more before deciding? That is in keeping with good character. Seeing a counselor? That would be ok too. Cheating on agreements? Not in good character. Some of this you have to feel your way though.

You guys are speaking honestly. Keep doing that. Def DO NOT start doing things you really don't want to be doing. That is not being honest with each other.

But if after consideration you both want to keep going and try open relationships/poly on? Then move on from LEARNING about poly to the work of PREPARATION for Poly. Which means some letting go.

If you both agreed to go into this with eyes wide open, with the understanding it might work out or might mean parting ways? Then you each have chosen to do with of your own volition. You are not doing damages TO her if she decides to try something and hurts.

If you each choose to take up ski lessons? If she falls down? That is not you doing damage TO her. That's just part of the experience of her choosing to learn to ski – accepting and being willing for some possible dings to happen.

Start detaching and letting go. Not like you don't care about each other at all. But like each person has to carry their OWN baggage for themselves. Not you carry hers and she carries yours in a codependent way. Just each person being responsible for carrying their own stuff and each choosing to walk together in a direction. YKWIM?

Galagirl

 

[Bluebird]

I agree with almost everything people have been posting. I don’t think anyone has recommended it yet, so I will - check out the book More Than Two. I suggest you each read a chapter individually, then come together and discuss the questions at the end of each section. It has some really great information, not just for poly people, but mono couples as well.