Polyamorous love triangle

[Purpurea]

Hi,

I don't really need any advice, but since I'm new here, and also new to polyamory, I thought this would fit best in this section.

I have always been polyamorous, throughout my life. I just wasn't aware of it. I remember always having strong feelings for more than one person at a time, but thought it was a personal weakness that I was not able to love just one person and be sexually faithful. So I struggled many times choosing between two people, hiding my true feelings from my partners, praising the rewards of giving up close emotional relationships and sex with others for one person, and still wasn't able to maintain a monoamorous relationship longer than two years.

I was married last year when I met someone else for whom I felt so much love, that I finally didn't want to hide any more. My husband couldn't stand it, and broke up with me, calling me ruthless and selfish for not respecting his wish to have a monogamous relationship with me. The other person had another close relationship with some other girl, claiming to love both of us equally. I admit that I felt jealous in the beginning, but it felt good and right to finally overcome this feeling and allow him the freedom to share his love with whomever he felt like.

The other woman couldn't handle the situation, though, and made him choose between becoming her monoamorous boyfriend or losing her. I'm sure, if you never felt deep love for two people at the same time, it's hard to understand what it is like. He chose to join in a monoamorous relationship with her, and to label our relationship as close friends.

This means we will continue to spend our lives together, spend lots of time together, plan to live close to one another, talk a lot, be emotionally close, cuddle, and kiss. We just won't have sex. (Where does "sex" start, by the way?)

Once again, I had to face jealousy from being put into second place, though he kept telling me that he still feels equally strong for me and for her. But I understand him, as I'd made similar decisions before in my life, and felt it was good and right at that time to just go on struggling. He told me that it was "just sex" that we had to give up. But if it was "just sex," why would we have to give it up? Obviously it is a little bit more than "just sex," at least for his girlfriend.

So, we are friends now. So far, it works "perfectly," as he has cheated on her with me a couple of times already... He keeps thinking it's a personal weakness and he just has to become stronger to resist me. You can tell that I really see myself in him, so I understand him perfectly and just hope for him (not for me, I'm fine with if we really wouldn't have sex any longer, as for me it really is "just sex" now) that one day he will get the same insights as I got last year. And hopefully his girlfriend will be able to grow with him. I'm pretty sure that the final word hasn't been spoken yet. We'll see.

He thinks I will change my mind about polyamorous relationships again, as soon as I find a new boyfriend. But I'm pretty sure I would rather stay single for the rest of my life than end up in a monoamorous relationship again, that is built on lies and dishonesty. I'm not sure if I will ever find people who I can have polyamorous relationships with. I find it hard to imagine that this will happen in the near future. It seems now, having becoming aware of my polyamorous nature, the number of people I could build a close, long-lasting relationships with has reduced drastically. There seem to be so few of you guys out there, But of course, you never know.

That's my story, as of today. Let's see how it continues.

Greetings from Germany,
P.

 

[Carma]

I think it's cool how you said you can see yourself in him. It sounds like you have a lot of empathy for him, and genuine love, as well.

For some reason, I was just wondering about his public relationship with you, if that is a factor or not. She is his legit "girlfriend," so does that mean she gets to spend time with his family, live with him, share his resources, etc., while you are the "girl on the side"? That may be ok for you now, but someday you might want a partner whom you can stand beside, and who can be there for you, as well.

I'm sorry for prying. I have no idea whatsoever why that came to mind.

I don't know all your circumstances, of course. It may be that this is the perfect relationship for you for right now.

Maybe in time, he may find you to be the way cooler one, and his girlfriend's restrictions too limiting. If he is still cheating with you, then I think that is possible. But I also think that he should have been strong enough to stand up to her and say he still wanted to be with you. He's setting himself up for guilt... unless he gets a particular thrill in the sneakiness of breaking his promises to her. I feel bad for him. Wouldn't she be mad if she found out, not to mention hurt? But either way, he would look like the bad guy, right?

And what about you? You deserve better. Clearly you love this guy.

Sex is okay, as long as it's without love, or love is okay as long as it's without sex. What is this all about? Believe me, these conversations are all over this forum. Haha

I'm not judging your man, or your situation. I'm just writing off the top of my head. (For one thing, I've set myself up for plenty of guilt in my lifetime. Trying to avoid it as best I can, these days.) I don't like it when people make assumptions about my situation, so please don't be offended by my questions/musings, because truly, that's all they are.

Glad you are here.

 

[redpepper]

The other woman couldn't handle the situation, though, and made him choose between becoming her monoamorous boyfriend or losing her. He chose to join in a monoamorous relationship with her, labelling our relationship as "close friends." We will continue to spend our lives together, spend lots of time together, plan to live close to one another, talk a lot, be emotionally close, cuddle, kiss. We just won't have sex. (Where does "sex" start, by the way?)

Sex starts where his girlfriend says it starts. I am guessing he hasn't checked this out with her. I think this is very important to check on, as you likely have crossed a line somewhere already and are good to go in the cheating realm. If this is to work, then I would suggest this gets cleared up as soon as possible, so as to have a good foundation of integrity, honesty, respect and compassionate consideration for all involved. To me, these form the basis of good relationships, especially polyamorous ones.

So far it works "perfectly," as he has cheated on her with me a couple of times already. He keeps thinking it's a personal weakness and he just has to become stronger to resist me.

So you are cheating, then. I think you have a lot of 'fessing up and apologizing to do. You have destroyed the trust of another and come off as uncaring about it. Cheating is not polyamory. It's cheating.

I suggest you look at some of the threads here on the foundations of poly and cheating. You can find them by doing a tag search for "foundations," "lessons," and "cheating."

The first thing to do is realize what you have done. Just because the two of you love each other does not make it okay to fuck each other and go behind someone else's back to do it.

I'm pretty sure I will rather stay single for the rest of my life than ending up in a monoamorous relationship again that is built on lies and dishonesty.

Gently... you have already built a relationship on lies and dishonesty. The one you are in is based on that. You are still not in a polyamorous relationship. You are having an affair. Call it what it is, then decide if you are okay with it or not, but please don't call it polyamory. I doubt there are many here that would be okay with your using the term for what you are doing.

I'm not sure if I will ever find people who I can have polyamorous relationships with. I find it hard to imagine that this will happen in the near future. Seems now that I've become aware of being polyamorous, the number of people I could build a close, long-lasting relationship with has reduced drastically. There seem to be so few of you guys out there.

There are a lot of polyamorous people around, but not too many would be interested in a cheater. Polyamory comes with a set of values that don't involve cheating. It is based on the full knowledge and consent of all parties involved. You are not practising this. Therefore, in my eyes, you are not polyamorous. I would not be interested in you. If you want to attract poly love, then I suggest that you start learning what it is.

I feel for you. You have a "friend" that is stringing you along. He is cheating on his girlfriend and using you for sex because he "can't control himself." How long that will last is until he loses interest in the sex, I think. Is there a thrill of cheating, getting away with something under the table? I would suspect that he is full of shit.

You might be enjoying his "I can't keep my hands off of you" bit. That is really quite sad. My wish for you is that you find someone who is willing to cherish you in your entirety, once you get your act together and act with more integrity.

 

[Purpurea]

@redpepper: Interesting points. Thank you for your comments.

The title I used for this thread was probably not a good choice. I chose it because I think that underneath it all there is a polyamorous relationship hiding, simply because he loves two people equally, at the same time. The way we live it couldn't be further away from a polyamorous relationship, in my understanding, and is, in fact, a complete disaster. I absolutely agree with you. Just the fact that his relationship with her restricts my relationship with him in some way completely contradicts my understanding of polyamorous relationships.

I made it clear to him that the only two ways for me to stay away from having sex with people I find attractive, is if either they don't want sex with me, or I stay away from them physically. I have neither the self-control, or any reason to resist, and he knows it. I have not once tried to seduce him though, after he told me he would not have sex with me no longer. But, of course, I still want sex with him, because I love him.

As for me, this is something between the two of us, so I see no reason for me to hold back if he offers me sex. In my opinion (and he agrees with me on that), it is his responsibility to make this work with his life. So, having made this decision to be her boyfriend, he has to decide whether he is strong enough to control himself, or if we should transform our relationship into a non-physical one. Both would be fine with me.

It's pretty obvious that this won't work. That's why I said that the final word hasn't been spoken yet. He will tell her about the cheating next time they meet in May. They have a long-distance relationship. I think he should tell her sooner, so she can make her own decision if, under these circumstances, she still wants to travel all the way to see him. He was also trying to hide the decision he has made with her from me until we met again (we also live a bit apart), but I managed to find it out a little earlier. But I can only tell him my opinion. It's not my job to make his decisions or tell her. I don't know her and I wouldn't even know how to contact her. Anyway, our relationship will become non-physical, their relationship will open up, or he will find a way to learn how to control himself. We'll see what happens.

I was just wondering about his public relationship with you, if that is a factor or not. She is his legit "girlfriend," so does that mean she gets to spend time with his family, live with him, share his resources, etc., while you are the "girl on the side"? That may be ok for you now, but someday you might want a partner whom you can stand beside, and who can be there for you, as well.

I don't know what they plan for their future. I guess they even don't know themselves yet, as they also just got to know each other last year. But of course, I'm fine with that, as this relationship doesn't keep me from building close relationships with other people. And I will love this guy, no matter what. I don't love him for the role I'm allowed to play in his life. I love him for who he is. And if he chose to never see me again, I would still love him from the bottom of my heart, as I do with many other people who left my life a long time ago. I think he makes a lot of mistakes in this current situation, but I would never judge him, as we all make mistakes. Me too, of course, I'm not holy. Not yet.

I'm not judging your man, or your situation, just writing off the top of my head. (For one thing, I've set myself up for plenty of guilt in my lifetime. Trying to avoid it as best I can, these days.) I don't like it when people make assumptions about my situation, so please don't be offended by my questions/musings, because truly, that's all they are.

Oh, that's fine, don't worry, I can handle that! I shouldn't write in a public forum if I can't handle opposing opinions. I see them as what they are: other people's opinions. I will reflect on them, and see if I can agree with them, learn something from them, or not. I'm really happy when people tell me what they truly feel or think, so please feel free to let it all out, without holding anything back.

 

[MrFarFromRight]

So you are cheating, then. You have a lot of 'fessing up and apologizing to do. You have destroyed the trust of another and come off as uncaring about it. Cheating is not poly. You have already built a relationship on lies and dishonesty. The one you are in is based on that. You are having an affair. Poly comes with a set of values that don't involve cheating. It's based on full knowledge and consent of all parties involved.

While I agree with most of your comments (not just the ones I quote here), I think you're being a little harsh on Pupurea, and I don't agree at all with your evaluation that she "come off as uncaring about it" or your calling her a "cheater". As she's said, she's "new to polyamory [... has] always been polyamorous throughout my life, I guess, I just wasn't aware of it."
I myself am new to the term and the movement "polyamory", and there's much for me to learn. Purpurea comes across to me as someone not at all new to the feeling, but new to the practice - and for a while, it was polyamory, because the "other woman" did know about it. SORRY! Not quite correct. It's not polyamory without all parties' consent.
But I assume that we're all feeling our ways along in this relatively new movement, I certainly feel that Purpurea's heart is in the right place, and I think that advice to a "newbie" from someone with more experienced in the movement should be more kind, forgiving, and understanding than judgemental.

 

[Purpurea]

I assume that we're all feeling our ways along in this relatively new movement. I certainly feel that Purpurea's heart is in the right place. I think that advice to a "newbie" from someone with more experienced in the movement should be more kind, forgiving, and understanding than judgmental.

Like I mentioned in my post above yours, I think anyone can express their feelings and opinions they way they want to. If someone wants to judge me, they are free to do so, as long as they don't harm me physically. I don't think judging people is the right way to enlightenment though, but I have been judgmental myself, and probably still am in a lot of situations. However, I wasn't offended by Redpepper's post. It is his/her point of view, which I can choose to share or not. And compared to being called ruthless, selfish, and radical, which was definitely meant to make me feel bad about myself, her post was very kind and I felt it was rather meant as some kind of good advice.

 

[MrFarFromRight]

I've rated this thread ***** because I think it deals with a problem that most of us have waded through, are wading through, or will wade through in the future. I empathise a lot with Pupurea, and - although I agree with redpepper that this isn't a polyamorous relationship, I disagree with her that the blame lies with Pupurea. If A offers B love (whether pure polyamorous love or a less-than-perfect kind) - and I'm sure that the man in this triangle isn't JUST interested in sex (or Pupurea would know it) - and B rejects that love, who is being closed? OK, so A is cheating on C. And in a way, B is cheating on C as well. And let's repeat this to make sure we're all agreed: this isn't polyamory. But I do think that it's love, even if I personally have decided never again to have a sculking, hidden relationship.

[Quote from one of my children's stories:
“I'm not willing to wait around for anybody to notice me. I’m not willing to wait until I’m acceptable. I’ve learned that I’m too important for that. Oh, I’m important to you, I’m important to Maeve; but that’s not what I’m talking about. Maeve helped me find this out, and you’ve helped as well. But if I lost the both of you, I'd still have learned my lesson: I'm important to myself. Too important to hide in any corners until the respectable people are out of the way, like I’ve been doing with Ernestine, Gladys, and Primrose. I want to be proud of all my friends. And I want them to be proud of me... I can’t offer you an easier choice than your father has. I’m sorry..." - Ella Of The Cinders]

If Love is infinite, shouldn't we love the non-polys as well? OK, OK, it doesn't have to be sexually...

I was married last year when I met someone else whom I felt so much love for, that I finally didn't want to hide any more. My husband couldn't stand it and broke up with me, calling me ruthless and selfish for not respecting his wish to have a monogamous relationship with me. The other person had another close relationship with some other girl, claiming to love both of us equally much. I admit that I felt jealous in the beginning, but it felt good and right to finally overcome this feeling and allow him the freedom to share his love with whomever he felt like. [...] Once again I had to face jealousy from being put into second place [...]

I'd like to take up this point of jealousy, because it's a very sticky issue.

In my opinion, the first time you use this word, it's perfectly correct. Jealousy as meaning "I don't want to share you with anyone else" / "I want all of your love for ME". Or even not "I don't want..." but "I hurt when..."

But the second case seems of a different class to me. Here it's a case of "If I'm willing / really want to love you without limits, why do you relegate me to second-best?" And - in Purpurea's case, "You allow yourself to cheat, and allow her to believe that she has won. But you let me know that I have lost." Is this a real case of jealousy. Or is it a wounded sense of justice?

Allow me to give an example from my own past. If you don't like long, boring stories, skip to the next comment!
Long before the days of polyamory, I had an "open relationship" with M. She lived in Germany and I in Spain. I made several visits to Germany so that I was spending perhaps 3 months each year there, and she spent - in all - perhaps 3 months each year in Spain. So we saw each other about 6 months each year. Because I wanted her to be happy and feel fulfilled, I was actually happy each time she wrote to me to say that she'd fallen in love. My attitude was: "If I can't be with her, at least she can share love with somebody else."

Whenever I fell in love with someone else (and noticed that it was reciprocated), I let them know that I was already in a long-term, important relationship; that I wasn't cheating on M, because I was unwilling to do so (lie to her); that I would be delighted if the new love could grow to equal (not "rival") the already established one in strength and importance, but if she (the new one) had any plans to "win" me away from M, she should forget them... or we should remain "just" good friends.
While camping on the beach in Spain (with a female friend-not-lover), I met a German guy, H, who (judging by my friend's and other women's reactions) seemed quite attractive to women... and who lived less than 100km from M. I liked him, too (this is important) and thought that M would like him. Whether or not that "like" had a sexual aspect to it was up to them and perfectly OK by me, either way. So - once again in Germany - I introduced them to each other.

On one of H's visits to M (and me), we spent the night in the same bed, with M in the middle. On waking, we had a tickling/stroking session. And then M suggested that we make "suïss" [Swiss] for breakfast. This is a Catalan speciality: thick hot chocolate with cold whipped cream piled up on top. Traditionally with sprinked sugar, though M and I substituted honey. H seemed interested and we assigned each person a task: I would make the chocolate, M would nip out to the shop and buy some whipping cream, and H would whip it. M (who tends to be impatient) said, "Well, what are we waiting for? Let's do it!" So I jumped out of bed (there's more to Love than bed), went down to the kitchen, and started to make the chocolate. And waited. And waited. And waited. And went upstairs to ask an embarrassed pair why they weren't downstairs, the chocolate was cooling off and the cream was still in the shops, unwhipped.

I don't know how far they got in their intimacies without me, and I honestly don't care. I was miffed that M had hurried me out of bed because she was impatient for suïss, and then the both of them had acted like "well now he's gone..."

On a later occasion, while M was going through a crisis - literally on the point of going mad with grief over another business - and treating me like shit [she later said to me: "J, you know, the only reason why I'm throwing all this shit at you is because I've got a lot that I need to unload, and you're the only one in my life who I know loves me enough to take it all and still love me..."], H came for another visit. And it was "Oh, H! How wonderful that you're here! How glad I am to see you!"... and so on (while I - who was gently trying to nurse her through her crisis - was "Oh, you!" [you shit...])
At one point, when I let her know that I was pretty pissed off about this imbalance, she accused me of jealousy.
[Yes, Dear People, this is the point I've been labouring towards!]
"Jealousy???" I replied. "I'm happy that you're feeling better. I'm happy that H has come here. And I'm happy that he can make you feel better. Because I really do want you to feel better than you have been recently... But I feel that it's very unfair that I - who have stood by you through this whole Tiefpunkt and been supportive - am getting shit while H (who's a very likable guy, but light-and-easy and hardly the most dependable... and is here for a weekend) is God's gift to you. It's not jealousy: it's a feeling of being treated unfairly and shabbily."

Epilogue: After 6 1/2 years - during which M and I had both had other lovers, M declared (during a period when she actually had another lover and I didn't) that she wanted to put the relationship on a different footing - a monogamous one.
I replied: "You make your own decisions. I refuse to impose limits on you, and I won't accept limits on my love."

There were - of course - other issues involved. Among others, she was going through another crisis. [Amazing coincidence: she had to say goodbye to her car (would never have passed the TÜF, road-worthiness test), her flat, her hopes of finding a new place with her beloved downstairs neighbour and her children, her studies, and her therapy group... all on exactly the same day. I was hoping that when she woke up on the next day and discovered that life still went on - and was worth living - things could only get better.]

Shortly before that fateful deadline, she decided to end our relationship.

 

[redpepper]

I'm sorry I sound judgmental. It's me I am judging really, as cheating is in hot debate in my life at the moment, especially as my view of it contradicts my actions lately. I'm not perfect. None of us are. The path to integrity is a difficult one. I understand everyone has their path and point of view. I gave mine simply as a point of view, rather than to judge. Of course, in that, judgment comes out.

I do hope he talks to her before she comes. I think it would add insult to injury if she were to come all that way only to find she is faced with being lied to and the deceit going on. Poor woman.

Good luck on your path. May it be enlightening.

 

[Purpurea]

I do hope he talks to her before she comes. I think it would add insult to injury if she were to come all that way, only to find she is faced with being lied to and the deceit going on.

I will talk to him again about it, I guess, as I think I haven't made my position clear enough yet. I also hope he will tell her the whole truth-- that the sex didn't just happen once, and that he really enjoyed it, and especially that he didn't do it because he was horny, but because he loves me. He said that to me, and I have no doubt that it's true. I hope it for him mainly, for his karma. And I hope for her that it will make her realize that she is not more important to him and that she can learn to deal with the hurt and the situation. And for myself, I hope I can learn to deal with whatever outcome this has.

 

[redpepper]

Questions:
Why is he picking a woman that he has an LDR with for a primary?
Do you feel that you are accountable for any part of the fact that you and he had sex behind this woman's back?

 

[Purpurea]

Why he picked her is simply because he didn't want to lose her in the first place. It has nothing to do with the distance. If I had been in her position, he would have done the same for me, he said. Which makes the whole thing a little extra absurd to me. I want to mention, though, that he didn't have close relationships before, and no one would ever expect anyone to do everything right when they do things for the first time.

I'm not sure if I get the second part of the question right, but for me, having sex with someone is something between me and the person I have sex with. It has nothing to do with her. I'm not taking anything away from her. Of course, it will probably hurt her a lot and I feel very sorry about that, but I refuse to feel responsible for it.

She thinks that me having sex with him might change his feelings for her, which is not the truth, so I'm not willing to act as if it was. I will not ask for anyone else's permission if I want to have sex with someone who wants to have sex with me too, just make sure that other people I was romantically involved with, would know. That might sound quite radical and coldhearted, but I couldn't be further away from not caring about other people's feelings. I just can't and won't take any responsibility for how they feel.

I think it's not ok though, that although he has a monogamous relationship with her, he has sex with someone else, that it happened behind her back, and that he hasn't told her yet. But I think he already started lying to himself and to her when he agreed to become her boyfriend, making her feel as if she were more important to him than me.

I hope that answered your questions.

 

[MonoVCPHG]

Of course, it will probably hurt her a lot and I feel very sorry about that, but I refuse to feel responsible for it.

I'm sorry, but this statement actually makes me feel sad. I've heard this before in our poly groups and I honestly was taken back when, in between speaking about expanded love, someone says this. I can't help but ask myself what the world would look like if nations did whatever they wanted, and didn't look at the impact it had on other countries, or take responsibility for how they affected them.

 

[redpepper]

Having sex with someone is between me and the person I have sex with. It has nothing to do with her. Of course, it will probably hurt her a lot and I feel very sorry about that, but I refuse to feel responsible for it. She thinks that me having sex with him might change his feelings for her, which is not the truth, so I'm not willing to act as if it was. I will not ask for anyone else's permission if I want to have sex with someone who wants to have sex with me... That might sound quite radical and coldhearted, but I couldn't be further away from not caring about other people's feelings. I just can't and won't take over responsibility for how they feel. I think it's not ok though that although he has a monogamous relationship with her, he has sex with someone else, that it happened behind her back, and that he hasn't told her yet. But I think he already started lying to himself and to her when he agreed to become her boyfriend...

Thanks. That does answer my question. Your perspective is interesting. Have you ever been cheated on by someone you believed was fidelitous with you? If so, has it worked for you to own your emotions and expect nothing from your partner, or anyone else involved? Is this a common thought in your circle, your culture? I'm seriously interested, because I have been told that it is in some cultures, that it is expected that people will cheat.

 

[AutumnalTone]

So we are friends now, and so far it works "perfectly" as he has cheated on her with me a couple of times already

Then you're just engaged in bad monogamy--cheating isn't poly.

You'll need full knowledge and consent of all parties for it to be poly.

 

[Purpurea]

@Mono: I'm sorry that it makes you sad. I think I get your point, but I'm not sure if you really get mine. Treating others with love and respect is a very important value for me, if not the most important one. That means I do not take away things that belong to others, I do not harm anyone, and I help wherever I can. But I can't keep people from feeling hurt by what I do anyway. Anyone is free to leave my life if they can't handle being in it. So that's actually not at all the scenario you create.

If I were a nation, I would not invade other countries, or try to make them live the way I live. But I would not change the way I live, either, if for instance, another country felt offended that in my country everyone drives red cars, because red is a bad color for them. I would offer to talk to the other country and try to explain why red is no evil color for us, and hope they will understand and accept it. But I would not change the color of the cars, even if they continued to feel offended.

Just another example: My husband felt hurt by me wanting to establish another equally close relationship with another man. Should I have stopped seeing my friend? Yes, I should have, if my husband's fears had been true, that seeing my friend would really have affected my feelings for my husband or the way I treated him, given of course that I wanted to remain close with my husband too. So I did not stop seeing my friend, because my husband's fears were not true. The thing he was scared of simply didn't exist anywhere else but in his head.

If my friend's girlfriend came to me to talk about it, I would not push her away and say: "It's your problem, not mine. Go away, I don't care." I would instead offer her to sit down with her, listen to her, tell her that I truly understand how much it hurts (and trust me, I do!), and try to explain my perspective. I also offered my husband to hold him whenever he felt bad about my other relationship, talk to him a lot about it, going through these feelings together. That's all I can do, I'm afraid. I just don't want to act according to other people's misbeliefs, just to keep them calm. That would not be what I understand as true love.

That might sound paradoxical, but I hope that I could make my point a little more understandable, anyway.

@redpepper: No, I have never been cheated on by someone, at least not that someone had sex behind my back. Sure, people did other things behind my back, though, so I know what it feels like. And no, my perspective isn't common here. I had read about the concept of taking over full responsibility for how you feel before and it sounded interesting to me, but I've actually just started to fully understand what it means with the things that happened to me recently with my husband and my friend. It's not easy for me, either, to take over responsibility for my emotions now. It has actually caused me a lot of pain, but it's slowly getting better. So yes, for me it seems to work for now.

 

[Carma]

Long distance relationships-- ugh! They could never work for me unless it was definitely a temporary situation and there was a definite end to the separation. I know myself too well.

I've thought many times in my life about my responsibility to another woman, when the man they believed was committed to them, was interested in me.

There is so much in our culture that says people are possessions. I know I have had jealous feelings in my life. But I have always recognized jealousy as an immature emotion, which can be reasoned away by the dedication to loving freely and wholeheartedly. I am not tooting my own horn. It's just been something automatic, not EASY, but something that I have always felt called to. Now I know there is a name for it: COMPERSION. I will strive for it for the rest of my life. And I want to surround myself with people who are committed to it, as well. I admire everyone on this forum who struggles in any way to reach this common goal. I believe we are all to be given great credit for our attempts. And even our failures! This is the greatest growth I have ever seen in myself and others. I am so proud to know all of you.

Anyway, it's confusing. How responsible are we, for whom and to whom? How much "loyalty" is there, to the sisterhood/brotherhood? To the institution of marriage? To the commitments people have made to other people? And how do we balance that with the love we feel in our hearts for someone, especially when that love is returned, even though it may interfere with, or outright destroy another relationship?

I remember one time in high school, a guy, a friend's boyfriend, drove me home from a party. I had always thought he was cute, but we had never really talked. I didn't know him at all, really. Well, he kissed me in my driveway. It was fun! We were young and curious, I was flattered that he thought I was pretty and was attracted enough to want to kiss me. But then it was, "Goodnight, thanks for the ride," and nothing else but a little ego boost for both of us, I guess. Neither of us wanted anything more.

Days later, of course, the word got out. He probably bragged to one of his friends in the locker room. I was called a slut by my friend and her circle of friends, and she never spoke to me again.

Granted, the stakes are much higher when you are an adult, married, parenting, sharing each other's homes, finances, etc. But the lessons get taught EARLY.

I still have a hard time watching a monoamorous relationship SUCK, and the one who "cheats" looking like the asshole, when really maybe it was the relationship that was cheating THEM.

Note I said the relationship, not the PERSON. Sometimes there are certain things that cannot be met in one relationship that can be met in another. And, I realize I would be BLASTED by the mainstream for a lot of what I'm saying! Really it's all just my musings.

 

[redpepper]

To me, it's a matter of integrity and what I would expect from others. If someone has told me that they are going to be faithful to me, I expect that. If they aren't, then I don't trust them and eventually it's possibly over, if that is not rebuilt. If someone I am with is not acting with integrity and respect to someone else, I wouldn't trust them, either. I would assume they would not be faithful to me, either.

Sure, taking care of yourself is important, but sometimes that means taking care of others first. Being compassionate, respectful, considerate; these are important qualities to have, especially in terms of poly. To me, this is how love multiplies and restores faith and brings people together. I suppose it depends on what the aim is. Mine is purely about increasing positive interactions with others; therefore I will do everything I am consciously capable of doing before acting. I try not to act out of fear of repercussion or someone saying no to what I suggest, what I want/need. I try to communicte what is going on for me and find out what is going on for others before acting.

This forum is filled with the type of behaviour of which I speak. I am interested to know how it works to go about doing whatever you want without thought or regard for another's feelings in an active way. Perhaps I have something to look at.

I wonder how long my loves would stay with me if I decided I would act on my own behalf only. It's important to have long-term close loves in my life. I wonder how they would adjust? I wonder how I would adjust to them acting this way? Not well, I'm sure. I would lose it. All my fears of abandonment would come up, my feelings of worth, my feelings of belonging, being worthy of respect. I akin my commitments to those I love as a child does to its parents. I trust that they would have my best interest in mind when I commit to being with them. If they cheated, something fragile, vulnerable and precious would be lost. My heart would break.

Hm, lots to think about. Thanks for this oppprtunity.

Oh, one more question, have you met this woman? Sorry, you might've said already. Is she someone you have come across face-to-face and seen how the two of them interact? Have you and she had a chance to create some kind of metamour relationship? Well friendship, really, as he is your friend, not lover. Or is this coming when she comes to visit?

Have you read any other threads on here? There are a lot of good ones on here about people's experiences with cheating; from all sides. If you do a tag search for "cheating" you will find them. "Foundations" and " lessons" warrant a good tag search also if you are interested in learning about polyamory. Mohegan has a good blog in the lifestyles section that might be interesting. All good info and points of view. Thanks for adding yours.

 

[IndieSolo]

I used to think the way you do. I've fucked more than a few married men, or men in committed relationships, who were cheating on their partners with me. I would say, "I'm not the one cheating. If they have a problem in their relationship, it's not my fault. He projected an available vibe, it's not my responsibility how he relates to her."

But you know, if I let him stick his dick in me, and that is the reason why he lies to her, I am indeed the problem. Plain and simple. Now that I am older and somewhat wiser, I know that I NEVER, ever want to be the reason a partner is dishonest to someone they love. Fuck that. I'd rather walk away completely, including from the so-called "friendship," than be a party to that.

You put a cute little emoticon in this statement:

So we are friends now, and so far it works "perfectly," as he has cheated on her with me a couple of times already. He keeps thinking it's a personal weakness and he just has to become stronger to resist me.

So, it seems you are amused by his behavior, and flattered by being the one he cheats on her with, so you throw up your hands and say, "Not my responsibility." But you're so wrong. You are the other woman in a dishonest monoamorous relationship. No one is polyamorous here.

I think it would benefit you to take a look at why you are okay with this kind of thing. What do you get out of it?

 

[redpepper]

Yes, I have done that too, had an affair with a married man. I didn't know he was cheating. He said she was all okay. I never checked in with her to see if it was the truth, and a whole load of shit got thrown at the fan when she found out. It took a year to sort out, and a whole lot of pain that I still resonate with to this day. I can only imagine that it is heavy in her heart too, if I still feel it. Still, I am not everyone. I have noticed that what I feel is a common theme, though.

 

[Purpurea]

It seems you are amused by his behavior, and flattered by being the one he cheats on her with, so you throw up your hands and say, "Not my responsibility." But, you're so wrong. You are the other woman in a dishonest monogamous relationship. No one is polyamorous here.

Well, no, I'm actually not amused or flattered at all. I used that emoticon to express irony, that in fact it's not working perfectly, at all. I think I've already pointed out why I consider this not to be my responsibility and why I chose the title.

I wonder how long my loves would stay with me if I decided I would act on my own behalf only. It's important to have long-term close loves in my life. I wonder how they would adjust? I wonder how I would adjust to them acting this way? Not well, I'm sure. I would lose it. All my fears of abandonment would come up, my feelings of worth, my feelings of belonging, being worthy of respect. I akin my commitments to those I love as a child does to its parents. I trust that they would have my best interest in mind when I commit to being with them. If they cheated, something fragile, vulnerable and precious would be lost. My heart would break.

The fact is, we are no longer children. Children are dependent on their parents. Adults are not dependent on their partners, although they often act as if they are. We will not die when our partners cheat on us. It doesn't even keep us from being happy, if we don't let it. So, if we are scared that others could cheat on us, we make ourselves emotionally dependent on them. We keep this fear in ourselves alive, that if they cheat on us we won't be able to handle it. But the truth is, we can handle it. It's not nice to be cheated on, but it's not a catastrophe either, if we don't make it one. Or, in terms of karma: it's bad for their karma, not for ours. But worrying about being cheated on, and being devastated when it happens, is bad for our karma.

I have this kind of relationship with him, that we try not to make the other one responsible for how we feel, or take over responsibility for the other's feelings. I can say that it is pretty tough at times; so many negative feelings come up. But it's a great challenge. We have only lasted a year, so far, but I can also say that this has been the most valuable relationship in my life, so far. I've grown so incredibly much by being forced to finally take care of myself and especially the parts of myself I had locked away. It's the same for him. It's an amazing learning experience for both of us, it has done so much for our inner healing, I like it

The funny thing with karma is, that often things are the complete opposite of what we commonly think they are. It's interesting how much everyone stresses the cheating part of this story. That's the commonly accepted view, and how most people would react. I would have said the same things not too long ago. In my opinion now, though, in terms of karma (truth, enlightenment, or whatever you want to call it), it was loveless of her to ask him to become her boyfriend when she felt she couldn't handle his relationship with me. And it was loveless of him to accept it. The cheating was just the natural consequence of this behavior, something that made the contradiction visible, if you want to put it that way. Without the cheating, it would be exactly the same lie, just covered a little better.