Polyamorous or indecisive/unsure?

[Tinwen]

I am sorry to be very direct, but I think you're overreacting greatly to her crush. Not like overreacting feelings-wise, feelings can happen, but by labeling it betrayal and looking for judgement. I think you could check your expectations, and afterwards (maybe once the stressful time with your father is over) check with her if your relationship agreements fit with both of yours expectations. If you view keeping contact with a crush as betrayal - that's ok, but you will have to spell it out explicitly with your gf and seek her consent, especially after suggesting a more benevolent attitude with the polyamory talks.

So if I get it right, you didn't see each other for a month, and she had a crush. (Need some explanation as to why now? I think physical distance is a pretty good one.) It took her just about two weeks to snap out of it. She didn't cut all contact (perhaps she didn't see it necessary) and invited him to social gatherings of a group he was already part of.

There are a great deal of good social reasons to continue contact with people around even if you have a crush. There also can be the personal reason of enjoying the crush energy even if you know you won't go any further. You can disagree, but in my opinion, there is nothing bad with it. Yes, you take some risk that it could grow over your head, but the risk could be minor - and the energy of love/sexual attraction in itself is beneficial to the individual.

I think you could take your common experience of having a crush as a basis of understanding each other (and attraction in general) better, instead of a basis for blame. If you crushed because you were lonely/needed support, isn't it also possible that she needed some closeness when she was supposed to study for exams and support you long distance at the same time? Is it possible that crushes just happen, and that you as a couple would benefit from reaching more understanding and consensus about how to deal with them?

Having said all that, you obviously need to find a way to release your hurt feelings about this topic. Also, some of the concerns are valid to me. The lack of readiness to support you, real or not... you might have to accept that this is how the relationship with her works, or call it a deal breaker (although again, I think in her own stressful time, she migh be doing plenty, I can't really say from your writing). You may also worry that your respective crushes are a sign that your intimacy as a couple isn't exactly in the place you would like to have it - which should be an encouradgement to find ways of enhancing it.

Again, sorry for being a little harsh maybe, I wish you good luck in dealing with these relationship issues.

 

[GalaGirl]

I am not sure if any of my thoughts help you any. FWIW?

I have to ask this question to a third party- isn't my crush more justified since it happened during a life or death situation, and her during a study period for the exam. Although I have to admit it is a very very difficult exams and couples have been known to break up because of it.

I don't think so.

• Your primary stressor was dad's illness, and secondary stress was GF in tough exams.
  
• Her primary stressor was tough exams, and secondary stressor was BF with sick father.

I think your own perspective will seem more VIVID to you. But that you both had tough stressors is a VALID thing that happened. Because it did. Both were stressed.

And then both had crushes. Both have faded.

Why does yours need to be "more justified?" Is it that you are feeling invisible and need to be SEEN in context by your GF? That you hurt and need comfort? If so, ask her for what you actually need more directly.

Coming at it from "the back door" seems wonky to me. You blaming her, trying to get her accept blame, so she then winds up apologizing and comforting you... seems like a long way around of finally getting what you need -- comfort. Plus she might not take on blame and then you aren't getting the comfort you want anyway. You end up in a side trip argument over who really is to blame.

Just ask straight up.

You seem to realize you keep going for "blame game" and you seem to want to stop because riding the blame game merry-go-round is making you think/feel yucky things over and over. So I think you have to find ways to get off that ride.

Yes, she did snap out of it and admitted she fell in love for an illusion of the person and the person itself. So, why after this admission to her friend and to herself has she invited the guy to most of the social gatherings of the group? (4-5) I found out he even walked her home while drunk at 4AM. And all this after apparently relising the crush was fake?
Isn't this borderline emotional cheating when you act upon your crush?

If it is emotional cheating to you, you could make her aware and ask her not to socialize with the former Crush Dude. Reduce your stress load by actually making her aware. Don't expect her to mind reader you and then get more stressed because she "fails" to do it. Mind reader-ing someone is impossible.

I think Crush Dude walking her home was better than her walking around alone drunk. If you prefer a different solution next time -- ask. If you prefer her to call you when she's drunk at 4 AM, ask her to do so.

Before, I realised exactly this that if you don't ask you can't expect her to read your mind, but i still had some resentment over her reluctance to help over some things I did ask for.

Rather than taking her reluctance personally... Did you ask what her reluctance was from? If other arrangements would still get the thing done but alleviate her reluctance?

You seem to realize expecting mind reader-ing is unrealistic. Why was this ability expected originally?

Did you have an expectation where you "trade" emotional management? You are in charge of fixing and dealing with all her feelings, so you do take her reluctance on as your job. And she is in charge of fixing and dealing with your feelings. So having a mind reader skill would be needed?

Are you mad she doesn't have this skill and is not doing your emotional management for you in they way you want it done?

I realise this is searching for cause and effect and going into a blame game but its hard for me to help it.

If "blame game" thought patterns are a habit with you? Yes. Forming new thinking patterns will take some work on your part.

What is your desired outcome of the blame game? What do you want her to realize and do? Would it be faster to just tell her what you want/need? Take another approach? Instead of running on "auto pilot" you may have to think out new ways of trying to solve things.

What is your desired outcome with this GF in general?

So the sense of betrayal comes out of my perception her attention was somewhere else and comes from the fact that even after she realised the crush was what it was she still acted upon it by inviting the guy to common gatherings of their study group.

I have to admit though they seem to never have texted or went for coffee alone or anything of the sort, except the walking home thing.

Have you guys even talked about all these crush things together? Or is it mainly from you peeking at her FB realizing she had one and ended it, and now it's preying on your mind?

If you are going to lay it to rest, you have to air things out. If you prefer she not socialize with him, ASK. Don't be letting you imagination run wild.

The main complaint seems to be her "not being there" like you wanted.

• If you expected some mind reader-ing -- you could stop and ASK for what you need.
  • If you want more attention, ask.
  • If you want her to tell you about her inner life and not only share that with her FB friends, ask.
  • Have you been neglecting her at this time without realizing it? Ask.
  • If you want her to stop socializing with Crush Dude, ask.
• If you expected her to be great with "illness/crisis skills" and find that she's not? Call it lesson learned.
  • You could hedge your bets that times like this with deep illness will be rare in your life. Could overlook that her skills are meh for now and hopefully they improve in time. Change your expectations of her. Make other plans to cope that don't rely so much on her. She cannot be the whole football team, esp if her skills are limited / she's still learning.
  • Or you could decide that you don't want to overlook it and want a partner with better "crisis skills" already in place. So you part ways to seek that other person.
• If you feel annoyed you ended it with Crush Woman only to find GF had a Crush Man she was thinking about dumping you for? So now you regret letting Crush Woman go and think it may have been better to let GF go? Dump GF and see if Crush Woman wants to start up again. Be decisive.
  
• If you do not trust this GF any more? Could accept it, and cut her loose. Don't be keeping her around just to be a comfort in your dad's illness... while complaining that actually... she's not all that comforting.
• Something else I cannot think of right now.

Whatever you pick or whatever combo of things? I encourage you to stop the blame game, seek more support (individual counseling and/or cancer group) in this tough time, and try to untangle all these tangled up feelings/thoughts.

Make some decisions and move it forward rather than keep riding the merry-go-round. That would be my advice.

I hope you feel better soon. It's been sounding rough for you.

Galagirl

 

[Bobbyboy]

@Tinwen I think my problem is that when we started dating after the first few months she started communicating and socialising again with her ex love interest and at first lied about the character of their past relationship. She at first said they were nothing but friends, and later admitted that she had a huge crush for him before our relationship. Even though this happened 5 years ago I think this caused me to be very sensitive and to have serious trust issues.

I see what you mean by needing me to spell it out for her...We did have a talk yesterday about it but she reacted at first pretty aggressively calling me insanely jealous and smothering and denying that she ever had a crush for this guy...even though I am absolutely sure she did. In the end I told her I can't forbid her to socialise how she wants but that i would appreciate that she doesn't do anything inappropriate or anything she thinks I wouldn't do. Im not sure this is enough and if she understood or if it is too vague.

I see what you mean it took only two weeks to snap out of it but still it is terrifying to me that during these two weeks she considered ending our relationship...so it seems to me this crush was pretty intense, or that she isn't satisfied with the relationship possibly. OR both.

I agree consensus and understanding is needed but is hard when she a) denies it b) calls me jealous and possessive when i ask her to minimize contact

You are right that i think that our crushes are a sign that our intimacy as a couple isn't exactly in the place you would like to have it especially since we are together for so long now and in front of a decision wether we get to live together/ married or not. I now look everything under a magnifying lense because I am afraid to end up with someone who is potentially a cheater or unsupportive.

You weren't harsh at all, just direct, which I prefer

 

[Bobbyboy]

@Gala Girl

You are very very very helpful. I am a slow learner though but I learn through discussion and opposing views.

You are absolutely right about the blame game and we did have a talk yesterday where i apologised for placing so much blame and somewhat exaggerated claims about her being unsupportive...because I think she was trying her best although she is a bit selfish. We agreed that we will both in the future try to express our specific need more vocally.

I told her i am uneasy about the crush dude but she totally denied there was ever a crush and called me jealous and possessive so it was hard to communicate about it while she was so defensive and dishonest. In the end i told her that in case there was a crush that i expect from her to act appropriately and not to initiate contact....but i am not sure if this is concrete enough or if it got through...how do you set boundaries when people have different boundaries. I asked her if she was pissed about me seeing the other girl and if that was part of the reason why her crush began (although i never admitted i love the other girl but she knows that i at least like her) and offered that i would minimise contact and eliminate one-on-one contact if it bothered her but she insisted it doesn't bother her but its my double standards that bother her. So now i am not sure if this is the case or she is just as jealous as me but is afraid to admit it.

In the case of reluctance i did in the first place tell her exactly what i need but it took her a long time to do it...this procrastination is what got to me...i see what you mean about finding out where the reluctance came from...again, communication is key.


I think my desired outcome of the blaming was for her to realise how shitty i feel in this period of my life and that she proves with her gestures and deeds how much she cares for me. I guess i felt uncared for.
Part of it might be some trust issues from the past (first year of our relationships she traded some messages and went clubbing with a small group of friend which included a guy she was crazy about some years before we met...at the beginning she lied to me that he was never anything but a friend but later admitted she used to have feelings and a complicated relationship with him) So I guess not that this Crush guy came up a lot of this old distrust resurfaced and I am not sure how to deal with it, is it justified or not.

What is my desired outcome in general. Well, I love her and i find it very very very hard to imagine my life without her, but these things we talked about raised a lot of doubt in me about committing entirely (moving in together and getting married) so now my desired outcome is to go through this issues and discover if they can be solved...because i think i have a fear of ending up with someone who is not supportive enough or someone who might cheat on me.
Ironically, my father who i despite all consider a wonderful human being has been at times very unsupportive towards my mother and has probably cheated on her several occasions throughout the marriage so maybe this is partly a root of these concerns.

Also all of these betrayal feelings i felt towards my GF I seem to feel because of the dad situation, because when i feel she is unsupportive i feel like she is disrespecting my sick father too..so i think that too is part of the equation - me having an increasingly protective attitude concerning dad.


I did talk to her about everything and she did feel neglected but never wanted to admit it in the past few months but i do not understand why she kept quiet even if i asked on occasions and even if i was preoccupied with dad.
From what she said i feel like she feels she is the sidekick in the relationship and feels like her needs are always submitted towards mine, and this probably increased when dad got sick a year ago, so maybe she really feels like she doesn't have enough space for growth since i am a somewhat dominant personality.. apparently she didn't want to talk to me about her depressions because she didn't want me to deal with that while i deal with dad too....but at the same time she opened the door to a crush that, although for a short while, almost had her end our relationship.
So i insisted that in the future she should always tell me when something bothers her.

Thank you so much for your advice!

 

[Tinwen]

Thanks for considering, Bobbyboy.

@Tinwen I think my problem is that when we started dating after the first few months she started communicating and socialising again with her ex love interest and at first lied about the character of their past relationship. She at first said they were nothing but friends, and later admitted that she had a huge crush for him before our relationship.

I get that. So you don't trust what she's telling you about her friends.

I see what you mean by needing me to spell it out for her...We did have a talk yesterday about it but she reacted at first pretty aggressively calling me insanely jealous and smothering and denying that she ever had a crush for this guy...even though I am absolutely sure she did.

And now she confirms the pattern by denying the new guy. This is not good. It is lying in face of a direct question. Not nice indeed.
But... two things...
1) Think back to how you reacted over the course of the relationship. Are you giving her good reasons to deny any crushes? Do you really act jealous? Will you blame her or even call her names if she admits the truth?
2) Even more importantly, neither of you seems to be in a pattern of total openness and honesty. Perhaps the topic of affection towards others is somehow off-limits in your relationship. Do you want to change that?
I think, if you want open communication, you will have to admit that you know about the crush. Preferably in a non intimidating way. This includes appologizing for reading her facebook, which she won't be pleased about for sure.
And, you'd imho do better to admit your own crush. This:

I asked her if she was pissed about me seeing the other girl and if that was part of the reason why her crush began (although i never admitted i love the other girl but she knows that i at least like her) and offered that i would minimise contact and eliminate one-on-one contact if it bothered her but she insisted it doesn't bother her but its my double standards that bother her. So now i am not sure if this is the case or she is just as jealous as me but is afraid to admit it.

You are tip-toeing around the topic, you can't know each others real stance, because you are both afraid to admit your own truth. You are setting a double standard, aren't you? Not admitting your crush, but wanting her to admit hers?

Of course, if the current unspoken expectation in your relationship is kind of "don't ask don't tell" regarding affection ... I can see how it could be hard to change in one huge leap of telling and demanding truth. Maybe someone else here could come up with tips how to best set up the conversation.

In the end I told her I can't forbid her to socialise how she wants but that i would appreciate that she doesn't do anything inappropriate or anything she thinks I wouldn't do. Im not sure this is enough and if she understood or if it is too vague.

This is quite vague indeed. You already have disagreements about what appropriate means. Like inviting your crush to your party.
But see, here's the thing with agreements. All parties involved should have a say in them and actually agree. That means you will first have to get through the communication, mutual understanding and compromise process, until you figure out how you two want to handle crushes. It's still good that you told her your preference -- hopefully she'll be able to tell you her take on the subject too.

I see what you mean it took only two weeks to snap out of it but still it is terrifying to me that during these two weeks she considered ending our relationship...so it seems to me this crush was pretty intense, or that she isn't satisfied with the relationship possibly. OR both.

I can see this is terrifying. But you both ended your crushes and seem willing to work. I think you are still on the same boat, although no one can foresee how this goes.

I did talk to her about everything and she did feel neglected but never wanted to admit it in the past few months but i do not understand why she kept quiet even if i asked on occasions and even if i was preoccupied with dad.
From what she said i feel like she feels she is the sidekick in the relationship and feels like her needs are always submitted towards mine, and this probably increased when dad got sick a year ago, so maybe she really feels like she doesn't have enough space for growth since i am a somewhat dominant personality..

Great job for hearing this one
I had a friend dealing with something like that. He was the older and more dominant one, and power inequality ensued. He repeatedly reminded his gf to speak up more, which she did, and it helped quite a bit. But it wasn't until they broke up for a few weeks until he realized, that he also has to also do his share of anticipating her needs and giving attention spontaneously. It was very eyeopening for him. Maybe there are similar lessons waiting for the two of you?

 

[GalaGirl]

You have a LOT going on. I really suggest you talk to a counselor about some of this stuff. You are all tangled up.

Some of this I see as your stuff, and some of it I see as her stuff.

Please consider using "think" for thoughts and "feel" for emotions. Things here are confusing enough without using those interchangeably. You might feel a little better not doing that.

I think my desired outcome of the blaming was for her to realise how shitty i feel in this period of my life and that she proves with her gestures and deeds how much she cares for me. I guess i felt uncared for.

You are not able to just say up front:

"Hey. Can we talk? I'm feeling really shitty in this period of my life. I feel uncared for and run down. Could you be willing to show me some extra care in the form of some kind gestures or deeds like __(hugs? spend time with me? what else do you like?)____? That would help me feel more connected to you right now."

Why the blame game? Learn to ask for what you NEED straight up.

In your post you seem to be saying...

• She's selfish.
• She denies/lies.
• And when feeling cornered or criticized, she flips things around on you or lashes out in order to shut the conversation down.

Is that what you are saying in your update? If so?

She might say whatever in the moment to take the heat (or perceived heat) off her own self. So when she says things like "there's nothing going on" it's hard for you to believe. You cannot trust in her Word because there's nothing solid about it. She's just saying whatever in the moment to get out of the uncomfortable conversation or make the conversation stop and go away.

If this is her usual way of going... Why do you sign up for this merry-go-round? Where is the pleasure in this for you?

I'm not saying she's evil or anything... maybe she's a bad communicator or whatever.

But I cannot imagine doing gf runaround stuff in normal times which can be draining on its own... and then ADDING dad eldercare on top. You cannot be Superman.

my desired outcome is to go through this issues and discover if they can be solved...because i think i have a fear of ending up with someone who is not supportive enough or someone who might cheat on me.

I am going to reframe that in non-fearful words. I quote just to visually block it off.

my desired outcome is to go through this issues and discover if they can be solved. I do not want to end up with someone who is not supportive enough for me or someone who might cheat on me if I can prevent it. If it happens somehow? I want to bow out of that kind of situation ASAP."

Frame things so you can be in charge of your life and be the captain of you own ship. Please stop framing things like you are helpless and life is this random thing that happens TO you with no avail. It's ok for you to take up the space you do in this world. You don't have to fearful all the time. Fuel your "coping-ness" not your "fearfulness." You might feel a little better.

I think you are right to re-evaluate increasing commitment here. Don't move in together and don't get married any time soon. If you cannot trust her, then don't get more entangled.

...she did feel neglected but never wanted to admit it in the past few months

So how it going to to get solved? Magic? You cannot be a mind reader any more than she can mind reader you.

If she lies when you ask her direct questions? Well, she chooses not to be truthful. You could move on and not deal with the thing in question and let her solve it on her own then. Don't chase her down to "pull" things out of her.

From what she said i feel like she feels she is the sidekick in the relationship and feels like her needs are always submitted towards mine....

So who made her be the sidekick? Who is the one doing the submitting? She is.
She can't blame you for actions SHE chooses to do/not do.

To me that all sounds like "flipping it around" to avoid taking personal responsibility for herself.

Tell her to stop submitting, advocate more for herself and then let her own it. If she wants to grow, this is one place she could start. But you have to let her own it and do it. Not be doing it for her or "fishing things" out of her. Back off.

You could have a boundary of asking once or twice, and after that you let it go. She doesn't want your help and you aren't going to be "fishing." Let her own it. She can learn to speak up on her own, or actually answer you honestly when you ask, or deal with it on her own.

After that? If she doesn't speak up and advocate for herself? That's her doing. NOT you being "dominant personality" and "overshadowing her" -- it's simply just her not doing her share of the work.

Let her baggage be hers to deal with. Don't be carrying it for her. You sound like you have enough of your own baggage to sort through without carrying hers too. I think that might be part of the detangling. Stop being Superman.

she insisted it doesn't bother her but its my double standards that bother her. So now i am not sure if this is the case or she is just as jealous as me but is afraid to admit it.

And what is the double standard she's mad about? If it was articulated I missed it.

If this is a concern for her, you could agree to talk about it next talk. But finish THIS talk first. Stay on topic.

If she refuses to stick to the topic at hand doing all kinds of avoidy dance? So you get exhausted/bored chasing her around/confused and basically give up? Mission accomplished. She's off the hook. No longer talking about it. Conversation shut down.

So i insisted that in the future she should always tell me when something bothers her.

And how will you enforce that? You cannot. You are not the boss of her. What she tells you or not is something she controls. Not something you control.

For you to feel comfortable around her, her Word has to be trustworthy. But other experiences with her show you that she denies things or lies about things so you cannot trust in her Word. So you feel uncertain with her/about the relationship with her.

You could draw better boundaries than that.

how do you set boundaries when people have different boundaries.

Rather than trying to control what comes out of her mouth (lies or truths?) You could control how YOU respond to any more lies that come your way. YOU can control how YOU behave and respond.

Boundaries are something YOU make to keep YOU safe. Doesn't matter what the other person is doing. Or what boundaries they set up for themselves to keep them safe. The only one who has to obey your boundaries is YOU.

You can ask her to be more up front and honest. That's a request to me. Not a boundary.

"I do not form deep relationships with liars." (That is a boundary YOU set for YOU to keep you safe and honor your want above in blue.)

"If I catch her in more lies, I'm going to start counting. After 3x of lies, I'm bowing out of this so I can obey my boundary." (That is a consequence YOU can do. She doesn't have to change her behavior any. She can keep on going how she goes. But you don't have to be there.)

I think you could be more assertive. See if that helps any.

I hope things get better for you.

Galagirl

 

[Bobbyboy]

@GalaGirl

I think she denied the thing because she snapped out of the crush and thinks it would make more harm than good to admit that she fell for another guy. This would be consistent with her way of thinking. Maybe she thinks it would hurt me if i knew for certain. Or maybe she feels guilty
Also an additional reason might be she knows if she admitted she had a crush she would have difficulties with the study group which became her friends and he is an occasional part of their social gatherings. Or maybe she still likes the attention from the guy, crush or no crush.

Also, i think her attempt to turn this around is also due to the disbalance she feels in the relationship. IT could be her inadequate way of coping with it. Maybe she thinks that what I actually want from her is to isolate herself from her new group of friends because of the guy crush so she sees that as a struggle in a relationship in which she feels submissive and tries to gain ground.

About the double standards, she told me she trusts me completely and that she doesnt mind me seeing the other girl in social gatherings and coffee breaks, but that she feels the double standard and a disbalance when I dont trust her to stay faithful when dealing with people she finds attractive. I can understand this argument to a degree, but isnt it valid that i may have stricter boundaries imagined than she does. What is the solution here, does she need to adhere to my boundaries because that way no one gets hurt or is meeting half-way the right way to go?

As for the support part i think we came to a consensus but it willl ofcourse take continous work so that the ask-for-what-you-want pattern becomes predominant in our relationship, because i guess we both have expectations from each other that the other doesnt relize. We agree we will both be watchful over eachothers needs but at the same time wont be affraid to ask directly. This will take practice though but i think it can be done.


As for the other things you said - I hear you and will try to implement them asap

 

[Bobbyboy]

@Tinwen well to be honest i can act jelaous. Although the root of it is the first incident i mentioned which was at year 1 of the relationship, so after that i became sensitised to this kind of things. She also has some gay friends (100% gay) who like to grope and kiss all of the girls from the group, and apparently i am the only boyfriend who thought that was out of line and forbade it so since then her friends think and tell her im jealous too. So i had a short fuse in some other situations which objectively werent problematic, so it is quite possible she is affraid of my reaction or of me using that against her in possible future disagreements, because to be honest I do always bring up the first incident.

Yes you are right, we do need to talk more about how to handle crushes and define this better.When we were younger we told eachother that kissing and sex were off limits and flirting is ok. We touched the subject of emotional cheating when she told me she tought me frequently texting with various girls who werent my good friends was problematic so i stopped that...but we never really talked about what happens when someone has a crush, when first crush happened from her side it was year 3 or 4 of the relationship and we just said it was no biggie since it involved a person she virtually had no communication with.....but is flirting then still ok when you have a crush on a person or is it ok to see that person when other people are around(like a group going to have a drink or a group going out clubbing)..i think these 2 things are key to what is bothering me right now because the rest is more or less defined.

 

[GalaGirl]

About the double standards, she told me she trusts me completely and that she doesnt mind me seeing the other girl in social gatherings and coffee breaks,

Why does she trust you? Because you keep your word?

but that she feels the double standard and a disbalance when I dont trust her to stay faithful when dealing with people she finds attractive.

Why do you not trust her? Because she doesn't keep her word/denies things / tells lies?

If that is the case? I don't see the double standard. I see each of you having a Word. And I see other people being willing to trust each of you or not based on the ability for each of you to keep your Word or not. It is the same standard of measure.

The outcomes are different.

If you keep your word and people see that you are reliable with your word? She can't be surprised when people (including her) are willing to put faith in your word next time.

But if she goes around denying things or lying or whatever... and people observe her being unreliable with her Word? She can't be surprised when people (including you) aren't willing to put too much faith in her Word next time.

The reasons WHY she behaves how she does don't really matter. Whether she feels the relationship is unbalanced or she's scared to tell the truth or she has odd coping from her past or whatever it is. Those might be her reasons for how she got to this point in time.

But they don't have to be reasons for her continuing this way if it is causing problems between you and she wants to help move things forward together with you. If this is a shared want, what matters is if she's planning on working on these things or not now that you have made her aware certain things bother you.

She cleans up stuff on her side she is responsible for, you clean stuff up on your side you are responsible for, and you both clean the stuff you are both responsible for.

If you want to request she start/stop some behaviors? You can always ASK. She cannot be a mind reader. So it's on you to ask. Then you wait on her response.

She could give you a direct answer.

• Yes, I am willing AND able to do what you ask.
• Yes, I am willing to do what you ask. I am not yet able. I need X to become able.
• Yes, I am able. No, I am not willing to do what you ask. I need X to become willing.
• No, I am neither willing nor able to do what you ask.
• I don't want to talk to you or answer questions. (That's not a joyous yes, so take this response as a "working no" so you can get on with it.)

Then you reflect on her response. You decide if there's a deal, no deal, more negotiation needed.

There doesn't have to be a big ol' run around about it. She too can ask things of you and wait for your response.

i guess we both have expectations from each other that the other doesnt relize. We agree we will both be watchful over eachothers needs but at the same time wont be affraid to ask directly. This will take practice though but i think it can be done.

Well, that's a starting point. Stop assuming things, and actually STATE your expectations. Actually state what you are and are not willing to do. Not everyone is up for everything at all times and that is OK.

If your opinions on something don't match, accept it with grace and without pouting or turning to name calling. People are allowed to have differences of opinions or preferences. There's no need for name calling --- "You are too jealous, too sensitive, too picky, too whatever."

is flirting then still ok when you have a crush on a person or is it ok to see that person when other people are around(like a group going to have a drink or a group going out clubbing)

Only you can answer if that is ok with you. Because only you can define your deal breakers. Your hard limits that will never change. Your soft limits might change over time. She cannot mind reader them. You can state them and ask if she will honor them or not.

Then she can decide if she is willing to honor your preferences or not.

Then you can decide if you want to keep dating her or not.

You are different people with different personalities. It's ok if you have different preferences or different turn ons or turn offs.

Figuring out if you share the same values, similar personal standards, similar turn ons or turn offs doesn't make one set or the other "better" or more "right." It just means figuring out if both sets can work together in harmony or if you just not compatible to be dating. Or compatible enough for dating but not compatible enough for marriage.

Lean into it and actually sort the stuff out.

Galagirl

 

[Magdlyn]

GG, I think youre being harsh on the gf here.

Bobby admits he acts jealous. He admits he brings up her first crush every time they discuss relationship struggles. He admits he's dominant. He admits he doesn't ask clearly for what he wants.

She's scared of him, seems to me. I was in a place like this once. He wanted me to admit crushes, but would punish me so severely if I did admit. He'd also deny he ever got one, to "set a good example" for slutty me, but he lied. After decades he admitted he fantasised sexually about every attractive woman he met!

 

[Tinwen]

She also has some gay friends (100% gay) who like to grope and kiss all of the girls from the group, and apparently i am the only boyfriend who thought that was out of line and forbade it so since then her friends think and tell her im jealous too.

It could be just the choice of words, but you seem to be using this notion of "forbidding" or setting rules for her in this context. I don't like it one bit (you're on polyamory forum, remember )
Of course, it's ok if you both decide not to press each others buttons and stop jealousy provoking behavior. Most monogamous couple do.
But I think you are starting to get around the idea, that the "rules" are more like agreements of the couple.

...but is flirting then still ok when you have a crush on a person or is it ok to see that person when other people are around(like a group going to have a drink or a group going out clubbing)..i think these 2 things are key to what is bothering me right now because the rest is more or less defined.

It sounds like your conversation on the topic of boundaries here is going well actually. You seem to put a finger on the inconveniences.
To me, "don't get drunk around a person you have a crush on" is a request I would make. Self-control can go down unpredictably.

I am amused by how very different focus me and Galagirl take on this complex situation. She's got zero tolerance for being unreliable, but her points about trust still seem extremelly good. You choose what is useful to you
I definitelly second her, when she tells you to find a counselor, for your grief and maybe relationships as well. We can be way off, and unable to help with deeper issues.

 

[GalaGirl]

GG, I think youre being harsh on the gf here.

I could see where it appears that way.

I see this as a problem for a counselor. An overwhelming amount of things going on. There is only so much Internet people can do or write about. Tinwen was already covering the jealousy stuff. I tried to focus on trust. I suppose another poster could take another prong... but really? It's a lot of stuff and I think a professional is needed.

As for the other things you said - I hear you and will try to implement them asap

I am hoping this includes Bobbyboy taking the suggestion to see a counselor and that he will be seeking an appointment.

Bobby admits he acts jealous. He admits he brings up her first crush every time they discuss relationship struggles. He admits he's dominant. He admits he doesn't ask clearly for what he wants.

That's why I say he's got to clean up his things on his side. Attend to his stuff.

And he's got to back off the GF and let her clean up her things on her side. She's either going to do it or not. He cannot MAKE her.

If it is that he's being dominant and overbearing, I think backing off helps solve some that. If its that she's being flip around-y, I think backing off and letting her own her stuff helps solve some of that.

There's more going on here than just that. But as places to start? Maybe backing off and taking a time out to cool off and seek a counselor helps this couple. I am hoping with a counselor's aid, they will choose to either come together better or disband better.

She's scared of him, seems to me. I was in a place like this once. He wanted me to admit crushes, but would punish me so severely if I did admit. He'd also deny he ever got one, to "set a good example" for slutty me, but he lied. After decades he admitted he fantasised sexually about every attractive woman he met!

I'm sorry he treated you poorly.

Had similar experience also. Wanted to hear things, then when I told him told me I was an evil bitch. I said ok. I'm an evil bitch. Best we not be together. Bye. Then he wanted me back so he could "fix" me.

I think trying to hammer people into something they are not and/or making people their emotional punching bag is not ok.

I cannot tell if OP is doing it to GF or GF to OP or both to each other.

I strongly encourage a counselor to help them sort appropriately.

Galagirl