Quad troubles lead to hard times

drinnt

New member
Hey everyone,

I've written on here before about my relationship:

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56025

Basically my wife and I were swingers and met another couple March 2013. They were swingers too. The connection was instantaneous and intense. We began a 14 month love affair where we became exclusive, fluid bonded and explored the far reaches of our relationship. Sleeping separately, separate dates, even a few separate weekends.

All through our relationship my wife and I adjusted our marriage as needed to keep things working for us (happy at home) and that allowed us to give each other jealous free permission to enjoy our new partners. Sometimes we did a good job, sometimes we learned some harder lessons, sometimes we impacted the group with our problems. However, all said and done we remained intact and available for each other and the four way relationship. We tended to "figure out our shit on the fly". It was our contention that the lessons we needed to learn were ones we needed to learn WHILE in the midst of the greater relationship. I wish I could say our lover's could enjoy the same convenience...boy, do I wish I could say that...and it wasn't for a lack of trying!

All through our group relationship though there were two problem dynamics. My wife and my lover, despite the two girls trying and patience, couldn't really get much traction in forming a relationship. In the last few months my lover did an amazing job reaching out and now her and my wife can talk about anything. It can feel tenuous at times, but it was a start to something real. There still were and are obstacles between the two girls' relationship...that is the other problem dynamic...the problems in the marriage of our lovers.

Our lovers had a rocky start to our relationship. My lover wasn't ready to stop swinging but her husband did not want to swing any more. That fractured their marriage. My lover carried that resentment through our whole relationship. That resentment kept her from truly seeing my wife as a partner until the last few months when my lover really put forth a gigantic effort. However...the only thing REALLY keeping my lover going was what she had with me. The whole time her marriage was deteriorating with every "mistake" her husband would make that would remind her of how much he chose my wife and our relationship over what was best for their marriage. That echoed back to the very beginning.

There was a brief, shining period for a couple of months this winter and spring 2014 where my lover and her husband really seemed to have worked some things out. Actually, they DID work things out. My lover actually said to me one day, "who wouldn't want this!!!" That was one of the happiest days of my life. Unfortunately her husband truly believed that their relationship of 38 years was invincible and relaxed way too much into his love affair with my wife. My lover couldn't shrug off the mounting, cumulative feelings of rejection that were creating huge gaps in their marriage no matter HOW amazing what she and I had is. As he kept making mistakes without every truly addressing the problem that only pushed her closer to me until she finally felt like I was all she had left. In a desperate attempt to save their marriage before there was nothing to save we have decided to take a break and not communicate to give them space. The two guys and two girls can communicate but not the lovers - thinking it would be too great a distraction.

We are two weeks in to a 5 week break where we went from communicating EVERY DAY for 14 months to NOT TALKING AT ALL.

The problem with this break is that it comes with a necessary unknown. We realize that they must fix their marriage. We ALL also realize that the way we were managing our relationship as a group got us HERE. So that leaves two things.

Can they fix their marriage enough to want to resume a romantic relationship with us?

What will that romantic relationship look like, how will it be managed?

The first question is the question that takes this from break to a possible BREAK UP. It's killing me. My wife and I are supporting each other and talking constantly. It's bringing us together and it really fucking hurts so bad. Lots of tears. Lots of gut wrenching agony.

All I can do is think about all the amazing amazing amazing memories and tell myself "they got us here...as good as they were, they contributed to this..." That leads me to hurt a little less, then I think about my role in all this and THAT hurts a little more. Every way I turn there seems to be pain until I know the answer to the ultimate question....are we done? I hold on hope with the fact that if we were done they would tell us, we're done. All they can say is they don't know but right now all they can focus on is their marriage and trying not to think about the future beyond that. I respect that and it comes with a WORLD of hurt. It's a VERY UNIQUE SITUATION.

Usually people know if they are done with you or not. Usually you can say "be with me or let me go!" In this situation though there was NOTHING wrong with our relationships to our lovers...they were dream-like...amazing...life-altering. It's killing us all to have to go through this. However without their marriage (or ours) then we cannot have what we have...or ANY version of it. We've all declared that no one wants a platonic relationship at the end of this. So it's some form of lovers or nothing.

The ONE question I NEED answered I cannot get an answer to. That question is...will they be willing to resume a romantic relationship with us?

I am having the hardest time treading water until I get that answer. I feel like I need to let go. I can let go of HOW we managed our love with them but I CANNOT BRING MYSELF to let go of that love...mostly because there is still very real hope. The problem for me is, that hope hinges upon something completely outside my control. How do I deal for the next three weeks????

I cannot imagine, after how deep we touched each other and what we shared, that they will choose to give us up. Especially if they get their marriage back on track. My wife has texted with my lover and me with the husband. They both sound like there is a LOT of healing going on and they both miss us like crazy, crazy, crazy. They won't tell us it's over...which gives me hope. But they can't tell us we will resume which both threatens my hope and invokes MASSIVE amounts of compassion for where they have been driven to in their marriage. I just love them SO FUCKING MUCH and don't want to lose them and the opportunity to love them every day for a long, long time.

Hence...VERY HARD TIMES. I'm sorry to dump a load of crap all over the board but I needed to release it.
 
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I hope venting helps.

Yup -- the polymath thing. In your 4 people thing, there's not only 4 relationships. There's MANY more -- and each mini relationship within the polyship has to be healthy for the overall polyship to be ok.


The ONE question I NEED answered I cannot get an answer to. That question is...will they be willing to resume a romantic relationship with us?

Yup. That is not an answer you are going to get today. That will only come after they are done healing in their dyad. There's a checkin point 3 weeks out. Totally reasonable.

I am sorry you are in a waiting time and that waiting is rough. But it is waiting with a limit. It isn't never ending waiting.

Could focus on what you have rather than what you do not. You have wife for company in the waiting, you have waiting with an end point, you have opportunity for 3 weeks dating break to get other things done/out of the way around the house, in your hobbies. Clean a closet. You may not feel any better in the waiting, but you will have gained a clean closet. Take a walk -- get some air. Do you self care.

I just love them SO FUCKING MUCH and don't want to lose them and the opportunity to love them every day for a long, long time.

You loving them is in your control. Even if the relationship ends, you are free to keep on loving them daily. It is not the same as being in an active 4 people quad relationship, but could not let your thinking make it be like you cannot love at all.

Does that kind of thinking ADD to the waiting time ugh or TAKE AWAY from the waiting time ugh? It seems to crank up anxiety to me.

Hang in there.

Galagirl
 
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Let me see if I understand - correct me if I'm wrong.

You and your wife continue to have a great relationship. You connect well with the wife of the other couple. Your wife connects well with the husband. Your wife and the other wife get along fine, but it has taken time and effort to get there. How is your relationship/friendship with the husband? And, the other couple has significant problems with their marriage, which could undo everything.

They may fix their relationship and
a) stop seeing you (they may or may not decide to be monogamous), or
b) resume their association with you (perhaps with modifications)

They may fail in fixing their relationship and
a) go their separate ways and neither has any more contact with you
b) split, but they could each continue seeing you - sort of a poly-N arrangement - how would you and your wife feel about that?
c) one or the other may wish to continue seeing one of you
- she may want to see you, in which case, how would your wife feel about that (assuming you would want to see her in this arrangement)?
- he may want to continue seeing your wife, in which case, how would you feel about that if your wife wished to see him?
 
Hi Steve,

I understand that you are going through a lot of torment right now. I know how that feels and I'm sorry you need to be in limbo for a while longer.

Firstly, the fact that you have all put a time frame on this is GOOD. This isn't an endless zone - only three more weeks to go.

Secondly, why not change your way of looking at this? Look at this as a group decision to do what the group needs right now. Don't look at it as being *left* in limbo, but as *offering* to move into the space that is needed right now. That space is quiet time. While quiet time may be painful, it is seen as the healthiest option for you all right now. So, go with that. Better to suffer now on your way to somewhere healthy than to enjoy now on your way to somewhere catastrophic.

Furthermore, group relationships can be EXHAUSTING. It isn't always a bad thing to take a breather. Can you and your wife go and do something together? Take a trip somewhere? Work on enjoying your own link while waiting this thing out?
 
Could focus on what you have rather than what you do not. You have wife for company in the waiting, you have waiting with an end point, you have opportunity for 3 weeks dating break to get other things done/out of the way around the house, in your hobbies. Clean a closet. You may not feel any better in the waiting, but you will have gained a clean closet. Take a walk -- get some air. Do you self care.

This sounds exactly like advise I would give. That's excellent. Thank you - just a little bit of clarity I could not see for myself in a moment of crisis.
 
Let me see if I understand - correct me if I'm wrong. You and your wife continue to have a great relationship. You connect well with the wife of the other couple. Your wife connects well with the husband. Your wife and the other wife get along fine, but it has taken time and effort to get there. How is your relationship/friendship with the husband? And, the other couple has significant problems with their marriage, which could undo everything.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Sorta - they are cordial and can spend time together but there's a lot of tension between them from other stressors - so it's not their first choice to spend time together. Still, it's working enough.

My relationship with R is stellar. We love and respect each other more than I could imagine loving and respecting another guy in a situation like this. We talk openly, honestly and help each other. We could stand to do that a LOT more. In fact I will take some "blame" for this situation by not having had some frank conversations with him more frequently!

Yes.

They may fix their relationship and
a) stop seeing you (they may or may not decide to be monogamous), or
b) resume their association with you (perhaps with modifications)

Yes - those are the options as we all know it.

They may fail in fixing their relationship and
a) go their separate ways and neither has any more contact with you
b) split, but they could each continue seeing you - sort of a poly-N arrangement - how would you and your wife feel about that?
c) one or the other may wish to continue seeing one of you
- she may want to see you, in which case, how would your wife feel about that (assuming you would want to see her in this arrangement)?
- he may want to continue seeing your wife, in which case, how would you feel about that if your wife wished to see him?

It is unlikely they will split. Actually, I will say that they will NOT split. They have way too much love still present, buried but present, to split up. They would give us up and salvage their marriage before they split.

In the .00001% chance they split, just to explore the emotions of it...my wife and I have talked about what we be faced with for options. What it would be like to split ourselves to "swap spouses". What it would be like if something happened to one of them and only one was left, but we never explored it in depth. Frankly I would be okay with her seeing R if something happened to his wife. I don't know how J would be about me continuing to see D if her husband was no longer in the picture. Fortunately those are all hypothetical.
 
Hi Steve,

I understand that you are going through a lot of torment right now. I know how that feels and I'm sorry you need to be in limbo for a while longer.

Firstly, the fact that you have all put a time frame on this is GOOD. This isn't an endless zone - only three more weeks to go.

Secondly, why not change your way of looking at this? Look at this as a group decision to do what the group needs right now. Don't look at it as being *left* in limbo, but as *offering* to move into the space that is needed right now. That space is quiet time. While quiet time may be painful, it is seen as the healthiest option for you all right now. So, go with that. Better to suffer now on your way to somewhere healthy than to enjoy now on your way to somewhere catastrophic.

Furthermore, group relationships can be EXHAUSTING. It isn't always a bad thing to take a breather. Can you and your wife go and do something together? Take a trip somewhere? Work on enjoying your own link while waiting this thing out?

Sparklepop I adore this response. Thank you. Since I was the final deciding advocate in the group for taking a month instead of a week (thank god I did NOT only go a week) I truly am forced to accept this break. I KNOW it's what is needed.

To be honest I was in a pretty good place the first few days. Then it set in that my wife and I were both interpreting it completely differently...it set in for me that this could be a BREAK UP and I was lost in devastation...hence the gushing OP.

At this point, thanks to some reassuring conversations with the husband and the time to think...and thoughts shared in reply to my OP...I'm feeling buoyed. There is no DEFINITE, but there is enough hope to cling to. I stand by my original assessment that there is very REAL and LASTING (true) love present in this relationship and when they are healthy they will return to us.

Until then I am working with my lovely wife to make sure they return to a HAPPY and STRONG couple that still loves them as much if not more.
 
Sparklepop I adore this response. Thank you. Since I was the final deciding advocate in the group for taking a month instead of a week (thank god I did NOT only go a week) I truly am forced to accept this break. I KNOW it's what is needed.

To be honest I was in a pretty good place the first few days. Then it set in that my wife and I were both interpreting it completely differently...it set in for me that this could be a BREAK UP and I was lost in devastation...hence the gushing OP.

At this point, thanks to some reassuring conversations with the husband and the time to think...and thoughts shared in reply to my OP...I'm feeling buoyed. There is no DEFINITE, but there is enough hope to cling to. I stand by my original assessment that there is very REAL and LASTING (true) love present in this relationship and when they are healthy they will return to us.

Until then I am working with my lovely wife to make sure they return to a HAPPY and STRONG couple that still loves them as much if not more.

So glad to have said something that resonated with you, Steve!

This sounds great. Let us know what happens. It sounds like good news.
 
This sounds exactly like advise I would give. That's excellent. Thank you - just a little bit of clarity I could not see for myself in a moment of crisis.

Hi Steve,

I'm so sorry you are hurting and so sorry this has happened. As you know, your girlfriend and I were talking for a while via email. I lost that account (which I used only for communications like this) in a computer crash early in the year and haven't talked with her in months. I'm going to PM you my every-day email in case you or she want to talk. Hold on and take care of yourself. What you all had was real and strong and I have no doubt it will work out for the best.

The dynamics are very different in my group, but the structure is similar. We just celebrated 3 years together but are having some challenging and rocky moments due to some issues my husband and I are having (issues between us -- unrelated to our quad). I had a horrible few hours yesterday after some silly miscommunication with my boyfriend that pushed all my insecurity buttons, and it all had its roots in an argument with my husband this past weekend. When it is good, it is good. But when it isn't, wow is it hard! It is a roller coaster of emotion and very challenging to navigate at times. I wish I had more insight and advice, but sometimes it is comforting just to know you aren't alone and that there are others struggling with similar issues.

Em
 
Hi Steve,

I'm so sorry you are hurting and so sorry this has happened. As you know, your girlfriend and I were talking for a while via email. I lost that account (which I used only for communications like this) in a computer crash early in the year and haven't talked with her in months. I'm going to PM you my every-day email in case you or she want to talk. Hold on and take care of yourself. What you all had was real and strong and I have no doubt it will work out for the best.

The dynamics are very different in my group, but the structure is similar. We just celebrated 3 years together but are having some challenging and rocky moments due to some issues my husband and I are having (issues between us -- unrelated to our quad). I had a horrible few hours yesterday after some silly miscommunication with my boyfriend that pushed all my insecurity buttons, and it all had its roots in an argument with my husband this past weekend. When it is good, it is good. But when it isn't, wow is it hard! It is a roller coaster of emotion and very challenging to navigate at times. I wish I had more insight and advice, but sometimes it is comforting just to know you aren't alone and that there are others struggling with similar issues.

Em

Hey Em, you are absolutely right. When it rains it pours...when it's great it's utopian. Such is the way I accept it to be.

Glad to hear you and your quad are still together. I have high hopes that we will be together as well for a long time to come. At least that is how I approach things, to act now so as to create a lasting relationship.

I totally feel for your recent struggles. It's hard enough working things out in your "primary" relationship never mind the ripples that wash through the whole group at times...or the complications of added emotional consequences. Can be as stressful as it is joyful at moments.
 
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