Reinventing Ivy

Today is bad. There's nothing particularly wrong, and I'm not in a bad mood or having a bad hair day or anything. I'm not feeling objectively unattractive, but I am feeling unappealing.

I was raised to find a man, marry him, and settle down as soon as humanly possible, lest I become old and unwanted and abandoned. Attracting male attention beyond that was considered greedy and extremely poor form in my family--specifically, you got labeled a slut, with all the worst, homewreckiest connotations of the word.

I hate what this has done to my sexual confidence. I wanted to date, to meet lots of people, and to have lots of amazing sex. I do make friends easily and I do meet lots of people, but when it comes to being desired, I fully expect to be excluded from that dynamic.

An obscenely attractive man smiled at me in the elevator at work yesterday, and I freaked out. I went through a series of emotions:

- Disbelief (Is he smiling? Or does he just have something stuck in his teeth?)
- Panic/Defensiveness (Look at the floor! Quick! Before he sees you looking at him!!)
- Self-Doubt (There are two other women in the elevator. He must have smiled at them.)
- Self-Loathing (Of course he was smiling at one of them; why would he smile at you?)
- Humiliation (Fuck. He already noticed you looking at him. Fuck fuck fuck. He must be disgusted. I hope he's not someone important.)
- Resignation (Well, that sucked.)
- Prolonged Navel-Gazing (What the hell is wrong with me??)

This is miserable and depressing and bums me out beyond words. I don't want to be like this. I want to feel attractive, I want to explore my sexuality and embrace sexual attraction when it's there and it's a healthy option. I have a husband who supports this, for crying out loud!

But in the actual situation, it doesn't work. Fail. :(
 
Ivy, Ivy, Ivy. Do not think of yourself as having failed. You now have insight into something a lot of people struggle for: knowing how your mind works. Now you can recognize these thought patterns as they come up and realize that they are only "tapes" (or patterns in your thinking) that play in certain situations and you can choose to either listen to, or ignore. It's like a radio playing really bad music in the background. You can let it bother you until you're ready to scream, or you can just focus on what is in front of you, the present moment, and that bad music will fade. Pay it no credence other than knowing this is a response that comes up in the "machine" your brain is. Also know that some of those thoughts you "heard" very likely could have belonged to those other women, and you just sensed them and thought they were your own thoughts because they seemed to match your old familiar opinions of yourself. This is an opportunity for more self-knowledge. Not a fail.
 
Vino and I had fancy cocktails this evening. It was lovely. Later, feeling nice and mellow, I popped on here to read updated threads. I commented on a couple. Then I thought, wow, who the hell am I to be giving advice, especially about polyamory? I'm absolutely, undeniably clueless.

It's strange how other people's circumstances seem so clear, the solutions so completely obvious. It would be nice to have the same emotional distance from my own relationships.

Just a casual thought.
 
nycindie said:
Ivy, Ivy, Ivy. Do not think of yourself as having failed. You now have insight into something a lot of people struggle for: knowing how your mind works. Now you can recognize these thought patterns as they come up and realize that they are only "tapes" (or patterns in your thinking) that play in certain situations and you can choose to either listen to, or ignore. It's like a radio playing really bad music in the background. You can let it bother you until you're ready to scream, or you can just focus on what is in front of you, the present moment, and that bad music will fade. Pay it no credence other than knowing this is a response that comes up in the "machine" your brain is. Also know that some of those thoughts you "heard" very likely could have belonged to those other women, and you just sensed them and thought they were your own thoughts because they seemed to match your old familiar opinions of yourself. This is an opportunity for more self-knowledge. Not a fail.
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X2 on this! Ignore those thoughts as a scientist would ignore their own real-time subjective interpretations of data during a study. Experience the moment. See what it becomes. Let what's actually happening inform your opinion, instead of your preconceptions.

I know I know, duh, right? It seems so easy from way over here, I'm sure it must seem impossible from your shoes. I've had self-esteem issues in the past too, and it still surprises me sometimes when attractive women flirt with me, let alone date me. But I allow myself the surprise.
 
I often stumble at the 'keep on communicating' point in my own polyships. Like, yeah, I totally understand the point of it, but it's so HARD applied to real life!
 
Thanks for the understanding. :)

I haven't been posting much because I don't want to spread the downer vibes, and because I'm beginning to feel like it's rather silly to define myself as "poly" just because I'd really like to have multiple relationships. At the same time, I'm still really struggling to get over my feelings for Ella and Ben, I've lost touch with my entire old circle of friends, and despite meeting plenty of new people recently and spending tons of quality time with Vino and the kiddos, I still feel isolated, and, well, really freaking lonely.

And even though I've met literally dozens of new people, there's never even been a glimmer of interest, and that's profoundly discouraging. I'm really not unattractive (at least I don't think I am), so I'm feeling very lost and hopeless. I'm beginning to think that I should just do my best to be happy with monogamy--one of those "accept the things you can't change" situations. Blah.

Like I said, bad mojo. Sorry. :(
 
Hi Ivy

I don't think polyamory should be used to filled voids. Just as with anyone seeking a relationship you have to be happy with yourself first and then adding someone into that is fantastic.

You said you're feeling lonely and yet you sound as if you have heaps of people in your life. Your sadness may just be a natural grieving process for the relationship you lost.

I think the most dangerous thing about polyamory is that there is the option of filling your life up with new relationships so that you never have to confront yourself or your existing partner(s) at a deep level.

And if all else fails remember 'this too will pass'.

Smiles
 
sage said:
Your sadness may just be a natural grieving process for the relationship you lost.
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It definitely is. A lot of people I cared very much about just kind of vanished from my life after the breakup, so I'm mourning a lot more than just that relationship.

sage said:
I think the most dangerous thing about polyamory is that there is the option of filling your life up with new relationships so that you never have to confront yourself or your existing partner(s) at a deep level.
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I'm definitely trying to replace the friends I've lost, because I know I don't do well without social connections. My new friendships are in the early stages, though, so they still feel fake and distant. I'm really quite confident about my career and ability to make friendly social and professional connections. It's when sex or attraction enters the picture that I lose it.

For the record, I'm not trying to replace the relationship with Ella (in fact, there are a lot of things about that relationship that I never want to repeat). I do want very badly to feel "wanted," though. It's not a feeling I've had very many times in my life, and it's one I enjoy.

I do tend to slip into introversion very easily and then I get depressed, so I'm trying to avoid overanalyzing myself too much. My relationship with Vino is really genuinely healthy. I would be a trembling, tear-sodden lump of coagulated misery if he hadn't been so supportive through this whole mess.

For what it's worth, he and I talked about this many, many times, and he feels my upbringing and the way I was treated when I was younger have made me "sex-negative"--sex, or even just unwanted attraction, necessarily damages relationships, alienates people, etc. So, when I do approach people, I take a very defensive position. He feels strongly that I present an attitude and nonverbal cues that shout, "Oh, no, don't worry! I won't hit on you or flirt with you or do anything like that! I'm safe! We're just friends/professional acquaintances/whatever!"

This, in his opinion, is tantamount to having "UNAVAILABLE" tattooed on my forehead.

But see? Overanalyzing. Fixing is never as easy as thinking.

sage said:
And if all else fails remember 'this too will pass'.
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Christ on toast, I hope it does. The sooner the better. :D
 
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Ivy said:
...when I do approach people, I take a very defensive position. He feels strongly that I present an attitude and nonverbal cues that shout, "Oh, no, don't worry! I won't hit on you or flirt with you or do anything like that! I'm safe! We're just friends/professional acquaintances/whatever!"

This, in his opinion, is the tantamount to having "UNAVAILABLE" tattooed on my forehead.
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...and he would be right. I'm not going to continue to flirt with a woman who sends me signals like that, because I'd feel like I was being creepy and inappropriate.

I don't think this is overanalysis - I think this is something important to watch for in your own habitual behavior. Maybe you need to turn on the flirt a bit more? I dunno, I'm a dude, take that one with a grain of salt. :p
 
SvartSvensk said:
I dunno, I'm a dude, take that one with a grain of salt. :p
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I just had an odd thought.

I've always felt like I've had an easier time connecting with women as far as attraction goes, and I've sensed more often when women were "flirting" with me. I still doubt whether I'm reading it right, but it just seems like the chemistry's there more often with women.

But, this anti-flirt thing I do, I do it mostly to make the other person comfortable. I developed it, I think, to save the other person the effort of rejecting me. Now, though, I feel like it's intended to take the pressure off the situation--if there's no risk of attraction or sex, we can act like reasonable adults and move on with our friendship or professional relationship.

Maybe women appreciate that more, and don't see it as a sexual deterrent? Like they're a little more free to be themselves and flirt on their own terms.

I know, as a woman, if a drunk guy comes up and starts flirting aggressively, it feels scary, and I try very hard to remove myself from the situation. For a guy, though, if a drunk girl comes up flirting, it's not intimidating. Sure, it's awkward and you don't act on it, but you don't feel at risk or threatened, right?

And really, if a femme woman started aggressively flirting with me, I'd start looking around to see which guy she's trying to impress with hot bi-girl action.

So maybe, for women, the anti-flirt thing really does take the pressure off and feel more comfortable, but for men, it comes off as frigid.

(Caveat: I know some people are really averse to gender generalizations, but culture really shapes how people think and act. Social and sexual power dynamics often differ between men and women, unfortunately.)

I dunno. Just thinking out loud (er...in text, anyway).
 
I've shared this here before on these forums, but when I was dating back before I got married, I used to imagine a neon sign above my head that flashed the word "Available." I'd be getting ready to go out, and imagine myself turning that sign on, and whenever it seemed like I was getting the attention I wanted, I imagined checking to make sure it was "on." It does help sometimes to give yourself visuals. I shared that with a friend of mine, and she says it helps her when she's out networking and trying to meet people. For you, it would just be a sort of re-framing. If you focus on just projecting availability, it might help your insecurities.
 
nycindie said:
I used to imagine a neon sign above my head that flashed the word "Available."
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You know, I used to have severe panic disorder--as in, calling 911 and running in front of semi trucks and stuff because I was so uncontrollably terrified that I literally had no idea what I was doing. That kind of thing would happen every single day. I did some serious cognitive behavioral therapy and got it under control, and while I still occasionally have the beginnings of that intense anxiety, it only happens once or twice a year and never progresses into a full attack.

But with the panic attacks, even at the worst, I knew it was internal--something I was doing to myself, even if it felt out of control. With attraction, I've always framed it as something someone else either feels or doesn't feel toward me. Even if I'm intensely attracted to someone, that fact is utterly irrelevant, because it's meaningless if they don't return the feeling.

Possibly this approach needs some reworking. I like the neon sign idea. With my issues, I'm really going to have to focus on imagining a classy nightclub-style logo, and not a dive-bar Bud Light sign. ;)
 
Went out hiking with my crush today--we'll call her Ruby. She's been assigned to help me train for derby and is pretty much pure sexy tattooed badass awesome. Le sigh.

I know she's dated women, and I think she might be into some BDSM, but I haven't asked--I don't want to seem pushy. I'm pretty much in a constant state of awe and marginal inferiority around her. The upshot is that I train harder, if only so she doesn't think I'm an incompetent slacker. :D

Unfortunately, since she's working so closely with me, I'm thinking it's a bad idea to flirt or anything. I'm not up for being that vulnerable right now, and rejection would make me really uncomfortable around her and would make it difficult for us to skate together (especially with the amount of contact that goes on). So I'm holding my tongue, so to speak. ;)

My de-crushing process is really unhealthy, though. I feel like I need to get over it, so I tell myself there's no way she would like me anyway. I construct rejection. Nasty psychological scars from being the fat girl, I guess. I've convinced myself she thinks I'm a boring, vanilla lawyer type with a neat little hetero nuclear family, and that precludes any attraction. But then that sticks with me, and makes me disappointed and frustrated that I come off that way. I'm not boring or vanilla, dammit, and I'm definitely not hetero!

Grrr.
 
Here's another approach: enjoy your crush and just know that you don't have to act on it. She sounds awesome, why not revel in how she makes you feel? We don't always have to follow our crushes to a liaison; it can just be a nice admiration and hot fantasy. Don't think you have to put yourself down in your mind in order to "pull back." Be there with her, doing the skating thing, become a friend, develop camaraderie, and then go home and get yourself off thinking about her. What's wrong with that?
 
nycindie said:
Here's another approach: enjoy your crush and just know that you don't have to act on it.
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You mean...stay in emotional limbo and just kind of enjoy it? And not accomplish anything or evolve as a person or analyze myself or my feelings or try to determine someone else's mindset or motives? Eeeeeek! :eek:

You're right, I think. Maybe.
 
I'd agree with NYCindie on this one - don't de-crush, enjoy it! If at some point something happens, then it does, in the meantime, you can just enjoy feeling sexy!

One thing you said earlier really struck me - when you mentioned that you've always thought of attraction as starting with other people. It starts with you. The sexier you feel, the sexier others will perceive you. The more comfortable and confident you are, the more attractive you become! My advice? More sex. More self-pleasure, all by your lonesome. Put a big mirror in your bedroom. OWN it. LOVE it. Love YOU.

I know, not so simple. ...but in my experience, things like that help you feel sexier, and it all just grows from there.
 
SvartSvensk said:
One thing you said earlier really struck me - when you mentioned that you've always thought of attraction as starting with other people. It starts with you. The sexier you feel, the sexier others will perceive you.
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You know, I was looking at a some pics from a few years back, when I was freshly skinny, feeling pretty good, and meeting lots of new people. I was also monogamous and not really questioning it. I felt really sexy (and I wore some truly shameless clothing), but I also felt really in control--I was thinking, "sure, look at it all you want, but no matter what, you're not good enough to touch it!" Kind of the wrong reasons, but the right idea. And also, being touched would be kinda awesome (depending on the person, of course).

SvartSvensk said:
More sex.
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Vino thinks you're brilliant.

SvartSvensk said:
More self-pleasure, all by your lonesome. Put a big mirror in your bedroom. OWN it. LOVE it. Love YOU.
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I agree, this needs to happen. I'm working on giving myself permission to get what I want, without feeling unworthy or apologetic or scared.
 
Oh, good news: I had this friend (I'll call her Heather) during law school who I knew was poly, but we sort of lost touch after graduation last year. I had considered talking to her about all this, but decided not to since I knew she'd been involved with Ben for a short while, before he started dating Ella.

Through a serious of extremely awkward and rather humiliating coincidences, she found out that Vino and I are opening up our relationship. She also found out about my relationship with Ella. Oy.

BUT...Heather shared with me the impression she got of Ben and Ella based on her experiences with them, individually and as a couple. It wasn't positive, but more importantly, it was practically identical to my experiences and impressions.

My God, I felt so much better (even if our conversation did border on vicious smacktalk). I mean, everyone has their faults, believe me, but I didn't realize how much I had been blaming myself for absolutely all of it. Talking to Heather made me realize that much of it was simply the way Ben and Ella are, and I can't change that, and I was miserable trying to emotionally survive while squashed in the middle of it.

Such an amazing relief. I may be effed up, but they're just as effed up, too! :cool:
 
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