Respecting and enforcing limits

1

1234567

Member
I'm kind of late to the sex party.

So I'm working out stuff that probably should have been established as a teen.

A partner, who otherwise has been very good for me, violated a limit I feel I had set, but probably not emphasized the importance of- as I did not know how important this was to me.

I need to have two forms of contraception in at all times to be comfortable.

This is especially important to me because I've come from a pro-life background, and while I am pro-choice, I don't know abortion is a choice I could take.

I've communicated this to all partners.

This last partner did not seem to take it in.

In the middle of sex, we were getting edgy- him dominant, me more submissive. He asked me to tell him I could come in him. I suddenly realized- we had a condom, but no foam.

So, I responded, "except... I don't have any birth control in-- aurgh!

He was silent, and kept going, and came. I was assuming, naively, perhaps, and based on the response in a similar situation by another partner, that he would respect that limit once expressed and pull out.

I didn't talk to him about it for a week, partly because of schedule, and partly to give me time. And then before we were to get together for an overnight, took an opportunity to reiterate my not being sure about being able to have an abortion and it was in his best interest to also take responsibility for double birth control.

It turns out that seemed news to him- my whole prevention being vital because I didn't know I could abort thing- and he heard me that it was important, and offered to go as far as a vasectomy to prevent pregnancy, a decision he and his wife previously decided against because of the risks.

He did not remember that I expressed a need to put in birth control, but apologized for it happening.

I'm still stuck, though.

Part of that is that I realized if I did get pregnant, it would probably destroy their marriage, and also harm my kids, if I could not abort. And the assumption is, yes, I would be dumped. That has me not so sure about the benefits being worth the risks. (And it is part of why he things a vasectomy might be a good idea- because we would not survive.
It's a way of showing his love for me, as well as protecting his family.)


Part of that is that he did, to my mind, clearly violate my boundary. Sex for us often does not result in orgasm in the vagina. He likes to go down on me without contraceptive foam in. So, if we head that way, and it's something he's planning, I want him to take reaponsibilitu for birth control. And definitely, if I object, whatever's happening, whatever mind space he's in, I want an immediate correction.

That didn't happen. He's asked me to remind him about pulling out for the future. That feels off to me: I will of course do it, but I still want him to take responsibility for it. I will also not allow a penis in the vagina without birth control. Knowing how important to me now that 2 forms of birth control are, and knowing he can't be trusted to pull out (and is saying as much), I want a hedge. He's okay with this.

But my mind is still stuck on "this shouldn't have happened". It did, though, and my trust is shaken.

Am I overreacting? I have boundaries in place to stop this happening again. The risk level is acceptable to me. I mourn the intimacy, though, of thinking I could trust him to take care of boundaries during sex.
 
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I don't think any precaution you want to take for your own fertility or health could be construed as overreacting. You have to do what's right for you, and it's good that you know your own mind on the issue of terminating a pregnancy. I am virulently pro-choice, and I totally respect that some people's choice is to NOT have an abortion.

Have you considered having Plan B pills as a back-up?
 
I am also absolutely pro-choice, which means I respect women's choice to not have an abortion as much as I do to have one. And, I applaud your self awareness and adamant stance about birth control. That is in no way an overreaction.

Have you considered the Femmcap? It's very effective, especially when used in conjunction with spermicide (and, of course, even moreso when used with a condom, as is pretty much all birth control), and can be put in well before (and left in well after) intercourse, which may make things easier from a D/s perspective.
 
If foam is occasionally difficult to remember to put in (and it seems like you only put it in if you are expecting a partner to cum inside you), he and his wife aren't the most comfortable with the idea of a vasectomy (at least that's how it read to me), and you feel there needs to be a requirement to have two forms of birth control why not instead of him getting a vasectomy or somehow hoping a pull out happens just talk to a doctor about going on the patch or shot?

That way the birth control is in your system (and you only have to remember changing/getting a new one every month/three months), there isn't a nearly irreversible procedure for him, and it will still be enforcing your two forms of birth control.

If you want him to have onus on the birth control as well as you, than you can be in charge of having your patch/shot up to date and let him know if he wants to be intimate with you than he needs to bring condoms with him.
 
CattivaGattina said:
If foam is occasionally difficult to remember to put in (and it seems like you only put it in if you are expecting a partner to cum inside you), he and his wife aren't the most comfortable with the idea of a vasectomy (at least that's how it read to me), and you feel there needs to be a requirement to have two forms of birth control why not instead of him getting a vasectomy or somehow hoping a pull out happens just talk to a doctor about going on the patch or shot?

That way the birth control is in your system (and you only have to remember changing/getting a new one every month/three months), there isn't a nearly irreversible procedure for him, and it will still be enforcing your two forms of birth control.

If you want him to have onus on the birth control as well as you, than you can be in charge of having your patch/shot up to date and let him know if he wants to be intimate with you than he needs to bring condoms with him.
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Good suggestion. I'd kind of just assumed hormonal BC was off the table for some reason (some women, including myself, can't take it for various reasons); but, if not, it is the easiest and most effective route.
 
I am comfortable with plan B- but that presumes knowing there has been a breach.

Hormonal birth control left me deeply depressed last time I tried, and I'm not willing to risk that again

I guess I'm not so much thinking I'm overreacting with the requirements- I need what I need- as feeling that maybe I'm overreacting by having a trust failing because he did not respond to my request - and perhaps not a direct one- the way I wanted by stopping sex so I could insert birth control. That really does have me shaken, more than I could have imagined.

I don't think I need huge amounts of him being a participant in birth control- it's my body- as much as of he's asking me to adapt my plan to get things set before, to then participate with me during for practical reasons- I need his help stopping if I'm not going to be directive and bossy during sex. Which is something I know I should be comfortable with, but aren't. And maybe that has me shaken, too- that I can't stand up for myself.

My first plan was contraceptive film, which I could put in before a session and forget about, but it would not dissolve inside me. But that level of responsibility is fine with me. And foam is iffy: it only lasts an hour, and our sessions are often longer, and his preference is that I don't until the last minute so he can go down on me of he wants to. I have assumed that caps would be the same thing- a preference for the last minute so it's not interfering with his explorations, but maybe I should open up that conversation.
 
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Firstly let me say as a male with a long term partner, I have had a vasectomy as I don't believe that birth control is something that just concern women. That said, its a joint responsibility, it can't just be his. From what you have said it would seem that the pill would be the ideal birth control as it has the lowest failure rate, least inconvenience to you, and keeps you 100% in control. I know you had some problems in the past but try different types and talk to your doctor.I know the pill has a small risk but that against a unwanted pregnancy or termination seems a risk worth taking.

With Angel, Wolf and Me contraception was discussed up front and agreed, which prevents future awkward moments. Nobody, and I mean Nobody can be trusted to discuss contraception at the peak of passion.

Really unsure about double contraception, may give you a false sense of security especially with methods that have low confidence such as foam, film, femidoms and sponges. I know I say this from a European english/french perspective where several types of contraception popular in the USA are not approved here because they are considered to have a higher risk of failure.
 
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1234567 said:
....he things a vasectomy might be a good idea- because we would not survive.
It's a way of showing his love for me, as well as protecting his family.)

.....I want him to take reaponsibilitu for birth control. And definitely, if I object, whatever's happening, whatever mind space he's in, I want an immediate correction.

....But my mind is still stuck on "this shouldn't have happened". It did, though, and my trust is shaken.
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Seems to me that this is not about practical birth control for you, but about what his taking the onus of BC upon himself represents to you. There are many safe and reliable ways to prevent pregnancy, but you seem to be telling us that the methods acceptable to you are only methods that the man must see to or be very much involved with. So what is that all about?
 
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1234567 said:
My first plan was contraceptive film, which I could put in before a session and forget about, but it would not dissolve inside me. But that level of responsibility is fine with me. And foam is iffy: it only lasts an hour, and our sessions are often longer, and his preference is that I don't until the last minute so he can go down on me of he wants to. I have assumed that caps would be the same thing- a preference for the last minute so it's not interfering with his explorations, but maybe I should open up that conversation.
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Femcap contains the spermicidal gel inside it, against your cervix, so he will not taste it if he goes down on you, and there will be no impedance to any other sexual activity.

But, as HappilyFallenAngel suggests, it seems like there is more going on here than the practical birth control issue.

If your doing D/s sex, the point is that the s isn't "bossy," but there should always be a safe word. USE IT. That's what it is there for. If you did use it, and he didn't stop, then yes, that is a huge breach of trust, and would personally make me rethink the continued relationship. If you didn't use it, why didn't you? He's not a mind reader, and that safe word is there for situations exactly like this.

If you and he don't have a safe word, why in the world don't you?
 
As to t"the man must see to it " idea- that is very much a coincidence.

I talked with my provider about birth control, and given my history with depression, which was really severe and pronounced on just one depo shot, they thought the risk of depression was too high, and the only thing they could suggest was condoms. They suggested no spermicide for it's increased risk in spreading disease, due to irritation. But I decided I was more worried about pregnancy than disease, so started that on my own.

So, yes, it sounds like I need to look into femcap- I would MUCH prefer to be in full control that way.

Why we don't have a safeword? I think it might be time to have that discussion. We've explored edgy stuff, but he's very much thinking we haven't - and won't- cross the boundary into kink. I might disagree. And I think that might be the heart of it - I need some safety measures in place. Whether or not he things we need them. Because *I* have crossed that line, even if he has not.
 
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Sounds like you're on the right track. Personally, I think a safe word is good practice for all sex, kink or vanilla-as-it-gets. That way, there's no mistaking what someone is comfortable with. Also, a "stoplight" agreement has helped me a lot. So, if I say "yellow," it means my partner should slow down/ease up/back off, but not stop--just allow my body or mind more time to adjust. Red means "stop. Now."

So, it's whatever clear, concise method works for you; but, I think that there's no reason to have to boundary cross or be doing anything "kinky" for clear safe words. Honestly, having those in place before moving forward into too much in the way of sex (usually within the first few times) has helped me be more adventurous, because I know that there's a safety in place.

I hope the discussion goes well!

Regarding Femcap: it has to be perscribed, and you may need to educate your provider. IT's more common than in other countries, but it is very effective, easier to size, and generally much easier on the vagina and cervix than diaphragms. It also generally causes less irritation and fewer side effects (yeast infections, etc.).
 
Also, FWIW, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the idea of a vasectomy, given he and his wife decided against it. *he* was the one who stated that as love for me. I think if they thought it was too risky before, I want to look into other non-risky stuff. If we can get the same contraceptive statistics with no adjustment to either of our bodies, just our behaviors, that is much my preference. But that is *his* choice- his body.
 
I like the idea of a safe word being good all around, kink or no kink.

And yeah- I'm remembering the cervical cap discussion from last year's midwife checkup. I think that was my original thought as to birth control when I became active again- a cap and condoms combined. I think they didn't do them, or hadn't done them, so I'll check in before my appt. to make sure that is an option.
 
I'm confused. You told him not to come inside you (with a condom on?) and he did anyway? That is a big trust violation. Like giant. Did I read that wrong? Because if a partner, kinky or not, did something like that to me I would have an extremely hard time trusting them in the future.

Also have you looked into the paragard?
http://www.paragard.com/

It's a non-hormonal IUD. I struggled for years to find a birth control option that didn't fuck with my emotional wellbeing. I -love- it. Every other form killed my sex drive or gave me horrible mood swings. It's also super important to me not to have an abortion (which is what I would do if I ever got pregnant) and IUDs are the most effective form of birth control.
 
I think that's how I'm tempted to feel it, but it's not that black and white. I didn't say "no"- I responded to a request with "except... I don't have birth control in- augh!" Which, to me, is clearly a no.

But... Maybe not to him. I need two forms of birth control; one can be time I month, if I have my period, and am a week away from ovulation, for example. And that was the case the time before.

And if I'd said "no" I can trust he would have stopped.

He sees this as a miscommunication, okay, but I communicated. So I need to know I *can* communicate. So the safewords seem like a good idea.
 
1234567 said:
He asked me to tell him I could come in him. I suddenly realized- we had a condom, but no foam.

So, I responded, "except... I don't have any birth control in-- aurgh!

He was silent, and kept going, and came.
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He wanted you to tell him it was okay to cum inside you. Saying, "except... I don't have any birth control in" doesn't sound like a clear NO. To me, it sounds like, "I guess so, except I don't have any birth control in." Wishy-washy and vague, but sounds sort of like it might be an unsure yes. Definitely does not sound like you told him to stop and pull out.

I think that if you wanted him to stop and pull out so you could put foam in, you would have said, "No, stop! Please pull out. I need to put foam in." And, since he was close to cumming, it should have been stated with a very clear sense of urgency, perhaps accompanied by a gentle push or stopping your own motions so he got the message very clearly. I don't see how he would have had a clear sense that you told him to stop if you were still laying there without squirming or physically pushing/signaling him in some way as "he continued."
 
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And....

I think that's the whole issue in a nutshell.

The boundary I was trying to set was "you can fuck me, but you can't finish in me".

I'm not American. To me, there were double and triple signs of a no.

The word "except". The mild resistance. (I did not say what he asked me to, and didn't go into that sub role.) The fact I was referring back to a previously set limit of multiple forms of birth control.

I would never have crossed those. In my home culture, except means no. Mild resistance, from "I'm not sure " on up means no. Previous agreements have huge weight, and cannot be broken, except explicitly.

He's American. Sounds like none of these apply.

I've struggled with this cultural divide before. And we're struggling with this together. When I set boundaries strongly, he feels it's over-kill- that really, all I needed to do was say it mildly, and that I'm not seeing him, who genuinely *is* all about consent, and would never cross a boundary that he picked up on. I feel that boundaries don't get seen if I don't really make them obvious, and as part of making them obvious as a boundary, I make clear the importance of them by saying with body language/tone "and I will back this up if needed" which comes across lack of trust.

Him feeling lack of trust really rocks the boat. And I can see a walking on eggshells type dynamic developing if we don't address this directly, with me tending towards setting subtle boundaries to not set off trust and him not catching them, so me then setting boundaries overly strongly... Interesting dynamic to work through, and probably good for both of us.
 
In general, in my opinion, "only yes means yes" should apply.

However... I agree with nycindie. To me, your response comes across like "YES, except I don't have any birth control in." I realize you didn't actually say "yes", but the rest of your response reads to me as if you had said yes and were just cautioning him about the lack of birth control.

I don't know that it's a cultural thing. It sounds like an issue of being completely clear with your responses. That isn't cultural, it's just communication. He asked you a yes or no question, and you didn't respond with yes or no. I can understand his confusion.

As for safe words... Hubby and I have had a safe word in place for nearly our entire relationship. He's my Dom now (on rare occasions), but that's only happened within the past couple of years, after we opened the marriage. Prior to that, we instated a safe word because, for various reasons, I'm inclined to shout "no" or "stop" during sex. I have control issues about sex, and me saying "no" or "stop" is directed to *myself*, as in "No, don't lose control, stop getting so close to the edge."

(It isn't that I don't want to lose control, necessarily... it's that when I get to that point, memories kick in and I fight against that loss without completely realizing I'm doing so. I'm also inclined, when I do actually let myself go sexually, to scratch and bite, and Hubby hates that, so I try harder to keep myself together with him.)

Once Hubby understood that, we agreed that we needed a different word that would mean I needed *him* to stop or was saying no to *him*. So we put a safe word into effect.
 
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