Sad Revelations and No Clear Path

TrulsShadow

TrulsShadow

New member
http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87773

cast of characters: me living with gf (girlfriend of 3years). np (new partner of gf -they are long distance by a 4hrish drive) is married and has a bf.


3 months ago I wrote the above/ and I was in a place of trying to sort out why I was feeling insecure/jealous/etc on my relationship opening up when gf went poly. I've called her new partner np in the above, so I'll continue that here. Let's just say that things have taken a dark turn in my head and I'm in a great deal of unease. I'm not one for depression, but from all angles that's what I'm feeling- and there's probably a lot of anxiety/panic too.

I should probably also add here as a background for some of the issues that have come up- my relationship is bdsm, I switch along with my gf, and she is primarily a submissive for np who wasn't actively embodying kink as a lifestyle or title until their relationship got underway. As far as I have been told, np always had the heart for kink, and has done things in the fetish vein before, and now sees the light as it were of stepping into a role fully. I didn't always know this and it clouded a lot of my perceptions- I felt she didn't understand things in my kink relationship were just that sacred to me and she was just doing things in her new relationship with my girlfriend because my girlfriend liked it. We all come from a background of believing everyone is free and has to consent to either remaining so or entering into a power exchange.

...

The main issue I've been having now is finding I've reached the end of what I can actively work on by myself. I went to a therapy session for relationship counseling over a week ago with my girlfriend and we were able to clearly outline what the basic story was: we opened relationship and I am not doing well. Through further talks with her since then I've come that we opened up our relationship by mistake.

-I broke down emotionally the first time gf told me she loved np

-I was reassured I was still loved, and along with my past experience in open relationships figured I mainly had to work on self esteem, jealousy/possessiveness, and trusting we were able to see it through past the NRE.

-I was doubting my previous open relationships as being poly, and wondered if I was poly at all. (atm I don't feel I am, nor do I feel mono, though I do resonate much more with feelings a mono person would have in my situation).

-I took my gf on a trip across the country to meet my parents just this June- we'd planned it for almost a year, before she fell in love with np- and it was mostly great, but it happened right after I started to feel very unstable about everything she was doing with np and that definately cast a shadow. Plus, my parents don't know gf and I are having problems since January. I am at the point now where I need to tell them and get some outside family support. And, throughout the trip gf was obsessed with finding out where wi-fi would be (for the most part, it was available, only in a few rural areas and while driving).

-After the trip I really wanted some extra space from gf and np so I suggested that gf go visit np in the states this time around. It was gf's birthday month which I had lost track of in my scattered mind so I apologized for my lapse and agreed it would be for July that she visited np.

-In the week before np arrived, I was told that gf already knew one of her presents. A bdsm collar which np was going to give her. Now... I did not take this well/ kink is pretty much the one thing we both agree is us-specific and special to us. We'd talked about collar ceremonies and giving each other one before, but didn't feel a rush to do so. I was still under the impression that np was learning to be kinky, and I also believe that np didn't (and possibly doesn't still) understand why kink and bdsm are so important to me. I was and remain very hurt that my partner would agree to such a gift knowing it was something we had planned previously- instead of bringing it up to me and suggesting we do that in this year, and then after we'd done so bring up that she was also asked by np if she wanted a collar as well for their dynamic- I mean, I'd be more ok with that. But from my standpoint, it came out of nowhere, a rush job, and zero consideration for my feelings from both of them. (I've explained this since to gf, and want to do so as well to np).

-The birthday visit was... an exercise in being courteous but I didn't feel welcoming or at ease for most of it. I was very much solely devoting the one day of the visit which was gf's birthday to be all about her, and nevermind what issues I was having. The collar hadn't been ready yet, so that helped ease my anxiety a bit.

-All this month gf and I have talked, and really gotten down to the core of issues, how we define things differently, how we see love differently, how we see even relationships differently. It's very enlightening and I'd be more interested were it not in the greater context of having problems, but from it all I've gathered that I've never consented to wanting this kind of open relationship. I said yes to opening up but not what it meant to me, and it's been taken too far by gf based on her definitions as well as gf wanting to be poly and taking all those definitions on as well. She instantly put np right up there with me, and while I'm live in and life material I don't feel like that anymore (nevermind marriage, I'd been wanting to propose to her this year before she started things with np...).

-I feel I could be ok if we were open in a sense of being open to developing connections in a casual sense/ not a finding more life partners sense. gf knows I think this now, and is very upset as well about it, but she is also very much not willing to choose between her partners and she doesn't want me to leave her. I can find no blame in particular, and we smashed out the guilt so there's nothing there really, just regret. Regret we did things this way out of going too fast with too few rules and not enough insight into how we communicate and what we each actually need to feel safe and stable in love.

-I feel like I'm back in January, having that first heartbreak, all over again... I don't want to leave either, but I don't see this being healthy. I'm mentally unbalanced, I can't find joy in much of anything, I have open resentment towards np, and I want to ask gf to step back from her stance of two life partners and prioritize me. I don't know if she would do that... I just feel I'm in a crisis and we're both feeling terrible. Knowing why it happened and that gf is agreeing with all these conclusions only makes it all the worse that she won't choose me, and I know np's personality won't allow for np backing off to help give us space.


I don't know what I want out of writing all this here... I just feel lost and broken. Thank you for reading.
 
I'm sorry you are hurting and struggling.

Sounds like you are close to final acceptance though.

  • You and GF wants different kinds of "Open." They do not match / are not compatible.

  • You recognize that continuing this way is not healthy for you. You are depressed and pretty much miserable.

  • Your GF doesn't want to end it even though she recognizes it is not a match and you are both feel terrible.

  • You recognize it is not a match and both feel terrible. So you could end it in order to be free of misery / relationship model you do not want.

You could let go then. With regrets, but let go and part ways all the same. So BOTH eventually feel better. Stop putting energy into trying to fly a kite that doesn't fly any more. So you can stop feeling run down and miserable.

Rather than lingering in the breaking up space dragging out the misery? I think you could linger in the healing space instead. It's a better space in which to linger.

Again, I'm sorry. Breaking up isn't fun. Sometimes the only thing left to do is to break up decently/respectfully though. :(

Galagirl
 
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You mentioned in your post that co-primary relationship is not something you are looking for and you have expressed that to your girlfriend.

I was a bit unclear on what her reaction to that was. Is she comfortable with higher key? Or not pursuing np in a co-primary co- live in life partner type way? Or is this a hard boundary for her as well?
 
thanks for the replies~

Since I was already very much focused on all I had wrote last night, when my gf got home from work I decided to address what I was concluding with non-consent to relationship models and loss of trust/respect. She let me say it all and didn't instigate a fight (we're both watching for that on each other's parts). I hadn't brought it up before in a direct clear way where I had all the words to say; sometimes writing it all down makes me more focused in verbalizing complex inner turmoils.

She agreed that how I felt (regardless of how we view things differently in a mental headspace) mattered. I stressed that I could not continue the relationship with her as it was unless there was a willingness to bend from her and np. I stressed that I needed to feel respected, and if that meant keeping in mind that we all think differently which means practically someone will get emotionally hurt, then we need to be aware that responding to a hurt with the difference of thought is not helpful to me. (gf and np believe each relationship is completely separate and doesn't overlap/ I believe it's technicality true as physical bodies are separate and I can see where they come from, I just make the extra distinction of seeing bdsm roles overlap and share- I know gp shares her role with np and me and it's her choice. I just can't separate it in my head the way they can.)

She acknowledged that when she and np were talking about collars that it wasn't a big in depth discussion and she doesn't think about our collar plans when those discussions came up- and coupled with her separate relationship view she didn't consider how big of an issue this became for me to see in my relationship essentially a close to heart symbol of future commitment be (to me) forgotten about in favor of the long distance relationship. She doesn't think there are any other major events like that that np will want to do/ I specifically spoke on the need for them to not do further commitment actions until this year is over. I was clear in 'no proposals, no handfastings' for example being things I still want to believe are going to happen between us.

Does it matter to anyone else when a partner seemingly forgets a previous plan and then instead of saying they were reminded of it just says it's happening with a different partner first instead? We spoke about this as well, and she knows where I'm coming from but it seems to be with a simultaneous awareness of some degree her own view. She stressed that what we do together is special to her and she still wants everything we wanted before.

She has to (and I do as well) go over with np what np is acceptable with, so that is something I am very wary about but I recognize that it's a necessary action.

I know that yes the future is unclear and we may still part ways. So I asked her what she envisioned in 5-10 years how she would deal with her long distance. She said that she always wanted to visit no matter how long the trip was- the frequency would be a decision based on financial stability, and she had a clear practical headspace so I felt she wasn't being biased. I brought up my worry that if she wanted to in the future keep the dream of sharing a house with me then the financial side of the relationship would have to be very much paid attention to- she wasn't thrilled but she said she shares that goal and would adjust to the distance or time between visits accordingly. She said she will be sad if we move further away but also that she doesn't want to live where we do now (she's never liked this city, and we were planning on departing from it when she finishes her studies- which I wasn't sure if she would want to move with me away from np, but I don't see a future per say in this area either.) It may be something to return to when gf is done with her masters and doctors, depending on where she can land a job.

And she thinks np may want to do a continued studies in Canada but is also unclear on if that will actually happen or not. It seems that gf and np will remain long distance for now, and I could worry all day and it wouldn't matter because nothing is certain future wise.

I said I want to make what I need from them clear and I believed she was speaking to me from her heart. We are both still emotionally sore. I can't morally ask her to choose between pp and after hearing her affirm me I can feel the repair of trust and respect start. We are going to a second therapy session probably in the next week or so.

I know that if she hadn't been as empathic with me last night then I wouldn't have been able to keep going the way I have. It would be a clear break up path at that point. I have ended a relationship before despite still loving so much about that person- it sucks to break up or be broken up with, and I know it was the right decision in that case. This one... we are very future orientated and the adding of her long distance was the only thing we fought over. It may change again. At the moment, we each wish to keep a watch on avoiding miscommunication, start really digging into the task of outlining what boundaries lie with each of us, and getting the group on the same page again. I know that there will be more issues... maybe and hopefully they will be smaller ones that I can handle better... I just want to take a breath and let the dust settle for a couple of months.
 
jayblue122 said:
You mentioned in your post that co-primary relationship is not something you are looking for and you have expressed that to your girlfriend.

I was a bit unclear on what her reaction to that was. Is she comfortable with higher key? Or not pursuing np in a co-primary co- live in life partner type way? Or is this a hard boundary for her as well?
Click to expand...

She views her relationships as being equally important to her and being in equal weight at a heart/emotional level. She separates them physically and also mentally in her head, and doesn't see them as affecting the other at all in any way. She said she had contention with poly folks on their view of the mono 'myth' of one true love/ one person not meeting all the needs of the other. She and I believe it's possible and it's also what we have with each other- she wasn't looking to replace or fill in any missing pieces when she thinks of our relationship and then of hers and np's. She does see them very separate.

A lot of what I wanted to clear up moving forward with her was where she saw np in her life- she seems to define primary as being the same as how she feels about people - in other words, her primaries are those she loves in her heart which is equal which means there are more than one for her. She does not want to live with np, she wants to live with me. I share this obviously but it's also something we have shared since moving in with each other. So, if she wanted in the future to co-live with me and np, I would not do it and would leave. That's my hard boundary at this present time that I don't see changing. And we discussed if we did live separately what we would each feel, and we had the consensus that we would just feel like we were drifting apart albeit slowly. Work life and school and the busy of routine life would start to get in the way and the deep connection we have with living together would lessen. It's not what we want- we want to live together as long as we are together.

So to me, np and I aren't what I would think of as primaries, but that's how gf sees it. I did mention that maybe a descriptor title would work better if she was wanting to bridge the gap between us on this- live in or nesting partner and long distance partner for example.

So, I suppose it is a hard boundary for her as well, but we're trying to come to an understanding of where each other stands and how to respect that and not push buttons. We are trying to as the therapist said, to always bring ourselves back to the relationship and be mindful.
 
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I stressed that I needed to feel respected, and if that meant keeping in mind that we all think differently which means practically someone will get emotionally hurt, then we need to be aware that responding to a hurt with the difference of thought is not helpful to me.
Click to expand...

I guess I wonder why you guys would keep going? Rather than accept you all think differently, are incompatible in wants/thinking, and go with a smoother path? Like be friends but not try to date? :confused:

If you already know you basically want a sort of (primary-secondary model) and she already knows she wants a (co-primary model) I think it might be best if you guys accept this is a fundamental incompatibility. :(

What happens when the things you need to feel respected as primary...
  • her wearing your collar
  • her living with you
  • her marrying/handfasting nobody but you

start to feel like limitations?

She cannot have those things with NP? NP and her both wants to do them but cannot because you don't want them to?

Is the expectation that GF will break up with you because now she wants a different model than primary-secondary?

Does it matter to anyone else when a partner seemingly forgets a previous plan and then instead of saying they were reminded of it just says it's happening with a different partner first instead?
Click to expand...

That would bother me. Because I expect my spouse to honor agreements made. I would have a hard time trusting him if he made agreements with me and they "fell out of his head" or whatever.

Either don't make agreements in the first place, keep your agreements, don't make NEW agreements without renegotiating old agreements first so all the agreements can flow together ok, or give me the heads up BEFORE the new thing that you are no longer going to keep this old agreement. Any of those is respectful to me.

Like deal with agreements in the order made. If he cannot accept a new agreement with her without first ending an agreement with me? I would rather he do that.

I know that yes the future is unclear and we may still part ways.
Click to expand...

Keep sorting it out then.

You both do have to talk to NP and see what NP is and is not up for. Just like GF has to figure out what she is and is not up for. And you have to figure out what you are and are not up for.

Galagirl
 
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Hi

Well take it easy on both of you... Y'all are trying to figure it out. Keep this for you... Your gf was just being a sloppy hinge in a classic case of over sharing with somethings if she does see the relations as separate.
For you it seems best to also not pry into their relationship also if those little things bother you... The collar situation brings to mind.
If you see the living together and buying a house..... Then start planning for all possibilities.... It's just the responsible thing to do... Plan the if we do the house together and she changes her mind about also living with np... What's the easy way out for both? .. Make room for each other's mistakes that way.. or choice change.. However you view it... Best done upfront and together.
You guys seem to communicate well so far . Which is very awesome
 
Have you considered some solo therapy sessions to work out some of the issues plaguing you? Those feelings of insecurity, jealousy, and the need to control the relationship?

Are you unable to see the relationships as separate? Did GF give you any indication that being collared by np meant she couldn't accept a collar from you? Are you unable to accept that it may mean a different thing to np than it does to you? What I am getting at is that np giving her a collar doesn't really affect you other than your disappointment that you didn't get there first. I don't see GF accepting a collar as "forgetting about your plans" because there is no reason for your plans to change. You need to quit viewing it as some sort of competition.

These are some things you need to think about. No need to answer here if you don't want.
 
vinsanity0 said:
Have you considered some solo therapy sessions to work out some of the issues plaguing you? Those feelings of insecurity, jealousy, and the need to control the relationship?

Are you unable to see the relationships as separate? Did GF give you any indication that being collared by np meant she couldn't accept a collar from you? Are you unable to accept that it may mean a different thing to np than it does to you? What I am getting at is that np giving her a collar doesn't really affect you other than your disappointment that you didn't get there first. I don't see GF accepting a collar as "forgetting about your plans" because there is no reason for your plans to change. You need to quit viewing it as some sort of competition.

These are some things you need to think about. No need to answer here if you don't want.
Click to expand...

I brought up the therapy to my gf as a thing I had to do for sure- either with or without her, and also just solo for myself. I do recognize I have always had issues that I don't do well dealing with on my own, and these were all brought out alongside everything else. So we're seeing the therapist together a second time, then I'll be looking into solo sessions, and she can do the same if she wants to. The couples therapy will be an ongoing alongside solo sessions.

I do hope that doing solo sessions will help me to see people as truly separate and to just focus on the one-on-one that I have with gf. Again, it's not that I don't understand where they are coming from in their views, as I do agree with them/ I just have the extra layer that makes me question if I am able to put that difference aside as something I value about my relationship that applies only to my relationship. It's a slow process, but it has progressed.

On the collar thing, I think you're spot on, and it's good to hear from someone outside of those involved. Thank you, I will truly take it to heart. Gf does expect a collar from me specifically, and it will still mean as much to her, so yeah it's a bit muddy, there's the fact it sucks to not have been allowed to do it first, and it sucks that gf didn't remember we wanted to do that when she was doing it with np. So, at this point, I can only go from the truth which was no one was being malicious.
 
FWIW, I don't think she forgot. I think she just saw it as a separate thing. I do understand how you might want that discussed a little before she accepted, much like a partner should discuss if they are going to get married or perform some other commitment ceremony.
 
Hi TrulsShadow,

It sounds like what you need most here is time: time to get used to the different way your girlfriend sees things. If she and her new partner would just slow things down a little, you would have time to adjust. Hopefully that will get easier, too, as the therapy continues.

Sorry you have been going through such a difficult spell.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
kdt26417 said:
Hi TrulsShadow,

It sounds like what you need most here is time: time to get used to the different way your girlfriend sees things. If she and her new partner would just slow things down a little, you would have time to adjust. Hopefully that will get easier, too, as the therapy continues.

Sorry you have been going through such a difficult spell.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
Click to expand...

Yes...and that can be difficult for someone in the throes of NRE.
 
Hmm... well I agree, and gf and I have been focused a lot on healing and re-visiting boundaries and tentative agreements. She's not interested in dating outside of her two relationships, and would only play casually with consent from her relationships. Though I'm not sure where np is on this/ part of what makes it hard not to feel like the lesser partner sometimes is that np has few to zero boundaries or agreements on most things between her and gf. I seem to be the main cause of all the concessions, all the hangups/ I know why that is, and I know that gf has made it clear that she wouldn't be trying to keep me around if she didn't accept how I am. As long as she's interested in me being a live in/life partner then she's going to be mindful of where I stand. I do watch her for being defensive, and she watches me- we're trying to be fair with our views and gentler than we have been.

I do need time, and in the nre stage (or as I tend to think as their long distance, each visit they get an initial reburst of nre) they felt they were doing it slowly. I indicated a few times it was too fast, and then there was the collar thing, and that was a clear crash and burn. So, me asking for clear breaks from having to be around or a part of their interactions, me asking for a few months to let things settle AGAIN while trusting there won't be another crash and burn moment (hopefully not going to happen as I've requested no proposals etc) should help the healing.
 
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