Setting Clear Boundaries with Friends

[GalaGirl]

But it's more that I worry about the terrible pain it will cause him if I were to end it. It's just not fair. I wish I had known this about myself years ago.

Vulpis, try not to feel too bad about it. No break up is "fun." Even if wanted, people have to have some time to adjust. Nobody goes "I'm bored. Let's break up!" like they might go "I'm bored. Let's watch a movie."

From your very first post:

For context, I am 23, female, and straight. I've been in a committed mono relationship for four years with a male partner who is ten years senior, living together. I moved thousands of miles to be with my partner and was a virgin, emotionally and physically, when we met.

You were 19 years old when you got together with Partner. The human brain doesn't really finish growing til 25 or so. You are still getting to know who the adult you IS.

It sounds like it is your first adult relationship, and by extension, maybe looking like your first adult break up as leaving for school approaches. Breaking up well is a skill. It's not like people have it down right out of the gate. IME -- my first one was a doozy. But I got better over time. So did my partner at that time. People do heal.

You have some hope that he will come around. But you are also trying to be realistic in case he does not. You are coming to terms that an open LDR will either work out, or it simply will not. You are going through your own stages of grief and acceptance over this possibility.

While trying to enjoy a period of calm and enjoy being with him in these (maybe) last weeks. That's not horrible to want.

I get the vibe that you wish he would be more communicative and either reassure you that it will work out, or reassure you that a good parting is still ok. Basically help you through this hard time. But he's off in his own bubble right now. That may be disappointing for you, but every person handles things their own way. Some people go into a denial thing or shut down or wig out or whatever.

But it will be much easier to end things if necessary while in LDR. Not because of the distance necessarily, but because he is really used to me taking care of him. Cooking, cleaning, nursing his illnesses, etc. I would prefer he be comfortable standing on his own before I essentially abandon him.

I feel terrible for even thinking of it.

You are not a terrible person to be assessing how it might play out -- either for yes or for no. You are right to figure out how to prepare yourself for either possibility. Quit beating yourself up over trying to be realistic about that.

It is true that when you are gone at school he will have to fend for himself -- and that's not a bad thing either. Being overly dependent on you all this time has not been healthy for him. Getting on his feet is healthier. This is something he could have been working on all along.

To maybe end things because you both have changed and have differing wants/views? Because LDR is a struggle? To me that's not "abandoning" him. It's a possible parting, yes. But you are not condemning him to a life of doom and despair. He is in charge of his own life trajectory.

If it is indeed a parting? He will heal. As will you. Give both of you some credit there.

Wait and see what September brings. It will sort out one way or the other. Try to reduce your stress in the meanwhile -- not add to it.

Galagirl

 

[Vulpis]

This community amazes me. I read every thread hoping I can offer someone else some support like I've received, but it's obvious that there is such a wealth of experience here that I really don't have yet. Your thoughts are so, so appreciated.

I apologize if my post came off a little harsh.

No need to be sorry; you were sharing your perspective based off of a lot of experience and that perspective is incredibly valuable. Thank you for sharing your story with me. I think I am a bit conflict-avoidant. But I also think that I've tried as hard as I can to be honest with Partner by reporting where I am, even when I knew he wouldn't react well to it. Right now I am still trying to come to terms with the very real possibility that the dreams we had shared for our future together are not going to happen. I am oscillating between self-hatred and self-realization, and it is very difficult to do that alone.

You're right, it would be easier to just move away and ghost out on him. It's not exactly courageous, or honest, but it's easier and I understand why you'd choose to do it that way.

I think being courageous has its place, and in this scenario I think that aside from logistics, it's just less pain for him as well as me to wait. It also leaves open the possibility that he begins to change as I have. I'd rather watch the sun set slowly than close the shutters, especially while there is still love and joy to be had.

It sounds like it is your first adult relationship, and by extension, maybe looking like your first adult break up as leaving for school approaches. Breaking up well is a skill.

It is, and it will be. I only hope that if we break up, he doesn't feel the need to shut me out of his life entirely. I certainly don't want to do that but understand if he feels he has to.

I get the vibe that you wish he would be more communicative and either reassure you that it will work out, or reassure you that a good parting is still ok. Basically help you through this hard time. But he's off in his own bubble right now. That may be disappointing for you, but every person handles things their own way.

Actually I'm generally just in complete fear of popping that bubble, as much as I'd like to be honest with him. After what happened the last time we had a serious conversation about all this, I fear his pain and the upheaval of our lives that would cause.

I feel that things are going to be very different for you once you start school in September.

Wait and see what September brings. It will sort out one way or the other. Try to reduce your stress in the meanwhile -- not add to it.

It's true; changes will happen whether or not I want them to.

Which leaves:

You seem conflict avoidant. I am severely conflict avoidant. So I get it. This shows [...] in how you enjoy your male friends but have a hard time when they are steering things towards "So...you'll let me have sex with you, yes?"...and you're not really sure you want it to go there at all.

I'm very familiar with these struggles.

Trying to navigate that mess when I'm inexperienced and don't know what I want is difficult. Even if I was single I would be struggling with this. So how do I even figure out what I want? Not knowing makes it too easy to let other people take the reigns, which is dangerous.

I suppose for now I should try to do as Ravenscroft suggested and accept a monogamous mentality, which might help safeguard me and those close to me in the interim.

 

[Spork]

You find out what you want by living. And by growing. And by having "aha!" moments and thinking about things in the shower and when you're driving and when you should be going to sleep. And sometimes, by writing and by taking others' perspectives, and chewing on 'em a bit, and swallowing the bits that taste like Truth, and spitting out the seeds that don't apply to you.

And sometimes it takes time. And sometimes, making mistakes, and getting hurt and hurting others. Much as that part sucks.

My marriage was over in April last year and I started dating in late May, had my first new sexual relationship in July a year ago now. I might as well have been completely new to all of this, despite having lots of partners as a teenager, it was apples and oranges. Sleeping with your high school friends, and DATING in the adult world of dating...? Completely different.

Had a couple of bad dates, where I cut 'em off after one date because it didn't go well...and then the one I call the "Worm King" for the worm farm in his basement. Dude rocked my socks! But he was a mistake, of sorts. I got attached, and he was just a player. Flaked out on me. Still pings me on FB messenger occasionally to see (I think?) if I'm still an option for him, but yeah the guy is just a flake. Period.

Why does any of that matter? Because for a mistake that will one day be nothing but a footnote in my sexual history, and although he was a great lover, I've had better since...for something relatively inconsequential...I learned A LOT about what I wanted. And what I did not want.

I knew I wanted something on a spectrum between casual and committed. I didn't want to just be used for sex. I wanted "relationships." I didn't want to rack up huge numbers of sexual partners, trying and failing to find what I wanted either. However, I don't want more kids or to marry or live together. I want independence. First poly fell into my lap, and then I found the term "solo poly" and had me an AHA! moment.

I lived and learned. Which you also will do. What I suggest to you is this...take your time. Don't let anyone pressure you into anything. Take as long as you want. A guy who acts like the clock is ticking and you need to get in his bed or lose out, is a jerk ass loser who doesn't want to know YOU and doesn't respect YOU. He just wants to get his dick wet.

And try not to commit to forever with anyone, until you are past, I'd say, about age 25. I think it was GalaGirl who mentioned that your brain is not done cooking until about then...it is very true. Enjoy yourself. But commit to nothing. Give yourself the freedom to change your mind, and make damn sure your partner(s) know you demand that right. This is YOUR life. You are NOT their property. You have not just a right but an obligation to make choices FOR YOU.

 

[Tinwen]

Trouble is I'm inexperienced and not used to being wanted AND wanting more. I'm really struggling to set my own boundaries and don't really know how to explain my situation to men who are clearly getting ideas about me. Does anyone have experience with navigating the waters? I feel like a giant tease.

I'm not interested in cheating, but how do I draw that line in my male friendships?

Even if I was single I would be struggling with this. So how do I even figure out what I want?

I too struggle with determining my boundaries concerning guys. I'm learning but I haven't learned. Boundaries started to be my focus the moment I fell in love with Idealist (first with him, then with others), so it's more then two years process now.

How I see this process working? Generally you either
1) think about your boundaries
2) try to make your feelings and emotions agree
3) learn to say no if someone is approaching your boundary.
It works sometimes. Sometimes you get the "figuring out" part wrong, or you mess up on saying no.
Or you
1) make an experience.
2) Determine if it's a good or bad one.
3) If it's a good one, well, great. If you don't know, you may want to experiment there.
4) If it's a bad one, you just naturally don't want to repeat it. You try to figure out what it was that made you uncomfortable (bad guy, bad circumtances, or bad behaviour?)
5) You learn to say no next times.

It's better if you make babysteps, because jumping in into something like sex with a guy you actually didn't want to happen can make you feel severely nauseated or worse. Not to mention destroy your 'monogamous' relationship in a way you really don't want it to end.
Otherwise? You can't do it wrong, every experience is a learning one

 

[Vulpis]

Well, I've been being careful and avoiding reciprocating flirting.

Partner decided to read my phone again. He claimed the messages he saw were "right there" but that still means he unlocked my phone when he saw a friend, I'll call him Gamer Guy, had texted me.

Partner read the flirtatious messages we'd sent, sat on that for a few days, then told me while at a restaurant today. I was calm and said I was not happy he'd invaded my privacy again. It was clear from our conversation that we are on different pages.

When I was flirting with Party Guy, Partner and I had a discussion and he said he thought it was cruel to lead people on. In my eyes, flirting does not have to lead to sex and is not harmful. Partner does not agree and thought that when I had agreed to limit my texting with Party Guy, that I meant for all men.

We are going to talk about things again but I don't know what to do about these invasion of privacy. Partner said that I'm not forthcoming, but I explained that I don't know what he wants to know or not know. Am I supposed to announce it whenever I flirt with someone? Basically he aid he doesn't believe me when I respond to questions he asks.

I'm very frustrated.

 

[Ravenscroft]

I don't know what to do about these invasion of privacy.

(1) It will continue.

(2) Even if he backs off momentarily, it will get worse.

He doesn't trust you, & in fact is seeking for reasons to NOT trust you, because these will validate his distrust, & free him from taking responsibility for his insecurity -- it's all YOUR fault then.

But if you drew clear boundaries for Gamer Guy, & he stepped over them, then don't you need to step up & enforce this? or do you WANT people to patronize you?

And if you DIDN'T draw clear boundaries, then how would that align with promises you've made to your bf?

 

[Leetah]

My impression is that he not only does not want you flirting with other guys but would prefer that you minimize All contact with other guys. He considers flirting a kind of sexual behavior which conveys the intent or willingness to engage in other sexual behaviors.

To some degree, from what you have said, this is accurate in the current situation - you WOULD like to explore further with someone. I seem to recall that you let him know that? Even if you have not explicitly told him yet he appears to suspect enough that his insecurities are fully awakened.

You have a month and a half to two months to share his living quarters. Would it be feasible to dial back the flirtiness for most of that time?

I don't know if you plan to have a relationship talk before you leave for school or after but if you try some degree of his preferred behavior for some weeks you can at least then tell him that you found you cannot continue that way.

If his distrust continues and grows? He may best be served by a new relationship form that does not bring him such distress.

This is just off the top of my head though so I may have missed salient details.

Leetah

 

[Infinity]

Hi Vulpis,

Hope you don't mind me chiming in. I'm new around here, learning all about poly I can. But I've been following this thread with interest.

As a possible alternative to slowly 'fading out' on him, have you considered having a more assertive, honest and up front conversation with him now? Something which honours seeing your relationship as it actually is, rather than as you both 'wish it were'. What I mean is, your relationship is not what either of you wish it was at the moment. You wish he were more on his feet, less reliant on you and you didn't have the co-dependent thing going on with finances. He wishes you were happy being mono and wanting a long term future with him as a lover.

It's interesting that you named this thread 'setting boundaries with friends', and I think the friends you really need to be resetting the boundaries with are first and foremost yourself (honour yourself rather than continuing in a relationship you don't want), and secondly, him (you are treating him as a lover, when you're more compatible as friends). The 'male friends' are just highlighting cracks in your relationship with this guy, and primarily, yourself. You have a chance to address those now and become a stronger person for it. If you don't, then that relationship skill remains unlearned in you until you decide to. But this is a wonderful opportunity to practise breaking up with grace, dignity and honesty - honouring him and you, honouring what you both had and who you've become now.

There can be a great relief in actually saying "this is how it ACTUALLY is - now, let's move forward with what we've got, rather than pretending it's something else."

I'm sure deep down, you both already know this. It would just be saying it aloud.

It sounds like you have made several assumptions, which don't serve you, such as:
1. If I'm honest now, the financial help from him would stop.
2. If I'm honest, I lose him out of my life (why does that have to be true?)
3. I can't / am not brave enough to speak up (you've labelled yourself as conflict avoidant - what if a conversation with him about all of this was a mature, respectful and clear one, rather than a conflict?
4. Being honest now would make it worse (what if it didn't and it brought you relief?)
5. I can't have this conversation (What if you actually gave it a try, and found out you could?)
6. I take care of him and once I'm gone he will be a bit lost (What if you tried to see him more as a capable adult, who you can help transition into being able to take more care of himself?)
7. I will hurt him if I'm honest (What if you actually cause relief by naming up something you both already know is true?)

These are assumptions you're making - but what if they turned out to not be true?

As a suggested conversation, to address these points, something you could say to him would be like this:

"I need to have a talk with you about our relationship, as soon as possible, when you're present and able".

Then, when you're both in a good space:

"I really love you and care for you.

As a romantic partnership, we are no longer compatible. I am poly-amorous, and you are not comfortable being with me as a poly person.

I do not want to lose you out of my life. I suggest that what this actually is, is a close friendship - that we have already transitioned into a close, loving friendship, and it would be helpful to rename our relationship in this way. We used to be compatible as romantic partners, but we are no longer.

How can we best transition into the friendship we actually have, rather than 'acting' the romantic partnership we don't have? (i.e. do you stop sleeping in the same bed? Stop having sex? What do you need and what does he need?).

How could we continue having a loving, flourishing friendship once I move to school?

As your friend, there are two things which concern me:

1. I am concerned you are too reliant on me to take care of you. I will be leaving for school in 3 months. Between now and then, how can I best support you in transitioning to being able to take care of yourself more?

2. At the moment you are financially supporting me. I am worried about not being able to support myself for the next 3 months and I am afraid of you taking this support away. Is there a way we can renegotiate this financial help with an arrangement that is appropriate to a close friendship?
For example, I would feel comfortable taking money from you as my partner, but not as a friend. Could we keep an account of the money you are paying for me with, for the next three months, and I will agree to pay you back within (1 year? 3 years? Whatever time-frame you can manage). Also in the meantime I will be seeking a casual / part-time job to be able to better support myself. Any help or tips you can give me about being financially self-sufficient, I would appreciate."

Then, maybe you need to schedule a few, not too long conversations about each of those points, with time in between for you to both digest.

For example:

A conversation about the end of your romantic relationship, where you both say how you *FEEL* and hear each other with active listening. An emotional clearing.

A conversation about what each of you need to move forward with this as a friendship (maybe two separate conversations, one about your needs and one about his).

A conversation about him learning to better take care of himself.

A conversation about you becoming less reliant on him.

All of that is possible, you know. It is possible to break up with someone and talk it out in a mature, respectful way which honours that both people are probably grieving due to loss of a relationship, but also honours what each one needs and who each one is NOW. A break-up doesn't have to mean a fight, a conflict or yelling to be heard. It isn't a you vs him where you have to sneak out. And give him some credit - you breaking up with him isn't impending doom - it's just part of life. There is more to his life than you and he will move on and become a better person for having been with you.

I think practising seeing this guy, and yourself, as both having the capability to work through this and talk it out honestly would benefit you both. See yourself as capable of having this kind of talk and it going well. See him as capable of living his life, a happy, fulfiling life, without you as his partner - and see both of you as capable of transitioning this relationship and your lives, gracefully. You'll likely find yourself both capable of more strength than you thought. Meet this with poise, dignity, calm and your head held high rather than scurrying off afraid.

 

[Vulpis]

But if you drew clear boundaries for Gamer Guy, & he stepped over them, then don't you need to step up & enforce this? or do you WANT people to patronize you?

I didn't exactly draw boundaries with Gamer Guy like I did with Party Guy. I didn't really think it was necessary because we only engaged with some harmless flirting. Do I need to set boundaries with everyone I flirt with? I was planning on it if things escalate at all.

To some degree, from what you have said, this is accurate in the current situation - you WOULD like to explore further with someone. I seem to recall that you let him know that?

I did tell him that. He actually didn't seem terribly upset when he brought up his finds from snooping on my phone. He even blamed me for the escalation because I don't want him reading my phone conversations, which apparently is only what people who are hiding things say.

You have a month and a half to two months to share his living quarters. Would it be feasible to dial back the flirtiness for most of that time?

I don't know if you plan to have a relationship talk before you leave for school or after but if you try some degree of his preferred behavior for some weeks you can at least then tell him that you found you cannot continue that way.

The flirting he found actually happened just before I posted this thread; I haven't engaged in anything since then.

Update
So we actually did have the relationship talk the same day I posted last. He essentially was able to figure out everything I was planning to talk to him about. He said we were on different pages, wanted different things, and the easiest thing to do might be to "take a break" when I move. We both cried a lot.

The next day I told him that in the event of us splitting up, I hope that he knows I have no intention of hurting him, taking his money, or shattering our friendship. I told him how important he is to me and that even if he needs time away from me, that I hope he won't cut me out of his life forever. He felt the same way.

So I am really hoping for an amicable separation.

Hope you don't mind me chiming in.

Not at all; all perspectives are very welcome. If you're inexperienced, I'm an infant at all this.

You've made a lot of fair points about me making assumptions about honesty because I am conflict avoidant. After we did have that honest conversation, it's like a weight has been lifted. I am really sad that the relationship will be changing, but I now have more hope for us for the future, even if it's not what I had imagined four years ago.

What I will say is that I'm happy the conversation was brought up a bit more organically from essentially a minor conflict. It allowed both of us to express our concerns, to be sad together, and to admit that this is probably not going to work.

I now feel like I can significantly enjoy my remaining time with him before we reevaluate when I move.

What I worry about still is that he wants a "break". I think it would actually be healthier if we simply broke up, because I don't want him to feel like I'm planning on returning to the relationship and disable himself from finding other women. He also has extremely limited romantic experiences and I think it would be good for him to get out into the dating world properly, or at the very least l think he needs to learn how to be with himself and support himself emotionally.

 

[Spork]

I think maybe look at this as taking it in steps.

Previously you weren't comfortable doing anything but leading him on in the hopes he'd change his mind or something, until after you leave. In order to avoid the confrontation of it all.

(I get it, as I said, I'm a conflict avoider, too.)

Now you have talked, and both accepted "taking a break." This is a step. This is progress.

Maybe wait and see how things go once you're gone, and take another step later.

As for the phone snooping, it's one of the biggest things feeding into my desire to continue to be "ideologically/philosophically poly" even if I become functionally monogamous again some day. And I've always acknowledged that such a thing could happen. The fact is though, I should feel safe in being honest...and I should also have my own private spaces.

"Something to hide" implies that a partner in a relationship has a right to control the other partner's behavior. Like a parent. Checking up to make sure you're not breaking the rules. I hate that whole thing. I cannot live that way. My partner has to trust me that if something is actually possibly GOING anywhere, I will tell him. I am quite capable of not cheating.

But like you, I am a flirt. We discussed somewhere else on this forum a while back...some people "flirt with intent" and some people "flirt with the world." For me, flirting is a fun social interaction. As I've grown and matured, I've gotten better at finding people with whom it is safe to flirt without intent, because they understand that it's what I am doing.

But a partner of mine has got to be very secure, that if I say I'm flirting for fun with no intent, I damn well mean it. If it was more, I'd tell them.

And that's why starting relationships with the understanding that "I am polyamorous, and one day I might desire sex or love or whatever with another person, and I need to know you won't lose your damn mind if I tell you, because I don't want to feel so unsafe that I feel compelled to lie about it." Going with just that basic premise has a few effects even if I never actually follow through and have another relationship while I'm with someone. Knowing that gives them the security that they don't have to feel paranoia or check up on me because I won't hide anything and I won't lie. And it gives me the sense that I am not being clutched onto like a possession or treated like a child. There is a mutual respect in it, that I want very badly for all of my future relationships.

Again as I said...I can be mono and I can be faithful, but I will always be social and I will always flirt. And flirting does NOT always imply intent, or consent. But cheating is basically doing anything that would hurt your partner and hiding it, in my opinion...the problem is having an insecure partner for whom even talking to a potential rival is a cheat behavior because it makes them feel so scared and they have trust issues and insecurity stuff. My ex was bad that way, it took years to "retrain" him to chill out even partially about it. And I never want to deal with that again. The next man to indicate to me an attitude of, "Silly girl, all the boys only talk to you because they want to fuck you, don't you know that?" is getting kicked to the curb.

Because plenty of men like my personality enough to be my friend, flirtation or no, and my partner had damn well better like my personality enough to not imply I'm only good for one thing.

There you go. Lessons from 18 years of crap. Hope you remember it and maybe you can get a head start. LOL!

 

[GalaGirl]

He even blamed me for the escalation because I don't want him reading my phone conversations, which apparently is only what people who are hiding things say.

Change your phone code so he cannot snoop even if he wanted to. Tell him you prefer to ask directly if he has questions about things rather than sneak around. That is not respectful. That is what people with healthy boundaries say.

Basically he said he doesn't believe me when I respond to questions he asks.

All you can do is speak your truth and be consistently honest. If he is unwilling to believe it? That is HIS behavior, not yours. You still maintain your individual boundaries with him.

I am married and my spouse does not know my codes. Not because I am hiding anything but because we are not enmeshed. We each need some individual privacy. We are individuals AND a couple. He doesn't even go in my purse when he would like something I have -- kleenex or a piece of gum or whatever. He asks if he can have it and then brings me the purse for me to get it out to give to him.

What I worry about still is that he wants a "break". I think it would actually be healthier if we simply broke up, because I don't want him to feel like I'm planning on returning to the relationship and disable himself from finding other women.

You got this far and are now able to do this:

I now feel like I can significantly enjoy my remaining time with him before we reevaluate when I move.

If "break" is all he can handle right now, why nitpick it right now? Enjoy the time you have left. Be grateful the conversation progressed this far. Before he didn't even want to hear it.

You can be firmer about it being "break up" in September when you reevaluate. How he copes afterward is his business. Not yours. You guys have to detach then.

You seem to "worry ahead" a lot because you worry how he will respond or behave. Are you able to see that "walking on eggshells" thing is not healthy?

If ultimately you want him to be able to stand on his own two feet? You could let his emotional management be his job. How he copes afterward be his job.

Galagirl

 

[Tinwen]

What I worry about still is that he wants a "break". I think it would actually be healthier if we simply broke up, because I don't want him to feel like I'm planning on returning to the relationship and disable himself from finding other women. He also has extremely limited romantic experiences and I think it would be good for him to get out into the dating world properly, or at the very least l think he needs to learn how to be with himself and support himself emotionally.

Don't worry about that. My break up was a break until he actually moved out. Even if you leave it be a break, and you both get two more months after you move to process, it will be that... processing. Emotions settle a little.

Besides, once you yourself are really solid that you are breaking up, you will just do it, without worrying about him. It's just a little crutch - your "I don't want him to feel like I'm planning on returning to the relationship" most probably means "I'm afraid of the temptation to come back". You want him to close the door too, so it is easier for you.

All normal break up feelings.

 

[Infinity]

Thanks for saying it's OK for me to jump in

Well done for having a talk with him.

May I ask, did you actually talk about what 'having a break' means? I'm reminded of Ross & Rachel on Friends, when Ross sleeps with another woman and then insists "It was OK! We were on a break!". To Rachel, "we are on a break" meant something quite different to what Ross understood it to mean Do you both understand the same meaning of "let's have a break"? Does it mean, you are broken up and might get back together in the future? (In which case, it's just the same as a break-up). Or, have you agreed to remain monogamous, for a set period of time, while taking time to think about what you want from each other? Or are you essentially still in a relationship with one another but just not spending as much time together? Or something else? I'd be asking and talking about it, because "let's have a break" really isn't clear, and you might find one or both of you gets hurt from making assumptions which could have been cleared up with a conversation. Of course, if this conversation has happened already, and you both know and understand you're on the same page, this doesn't apply.

Perhaps talking about this, you can find the courage to say "actually, I just want to break-up, and I want to talk about what being friends looks like" rather than "having a break" which you both know is code for "it's over" anyway. But sometimes it can take courage to look at the truth full on, especially if you're afraid of hurting someone or being alone, or both.

If you do stick with the 'we're having a break' though, I'd make really sure you're both on the same page about what that means. Because it's clear from your other posts that you're pretty 'hot to trot' in terms of fooling around with other guys. If you go out and explore your new-found freedom, sexually, with others - and the 'on a break' guy doesn't know that's allowed in the terms of 'a break', he could get quite upset and feel quite betrayed.

Whereas, if you make it clear 'we are broken up', then you don't have to tell him at all what you do with other guys. It's none of his business if you're just a friend.

 

[Keats]

All I can say is that making the decision to leave someone that you are emotionally, physically, mentally, financially entwined with is a very difficult decision to make.

Until it is made.

Then is gets much easier. It only takes a small amount of time and space to realize how much of yourself you lost by agreeing to make never ending compromises. The truth is that there are plenty of people out there that are willing to love you for you, and as you want to be loved. People are always evolving and changing. Neither of you can always remain the same people that you fell in love with. Some lucky few find a partner that continues to grow in the same direction but it is more typical for one side to get pushed into living a lie. This isn't to say one person is bad or wrong. Everyone just themselves. The problem happens when we hold on too tightly and try to own that other person or too tightly to our old selves.

I have been in your situation and it took me a long time to get the courage to take a leap. But I have never once regretted anything about it other than I wished I would have done it sooner.

Be true to yourself and don't be afraid to go get what you want out of life. You only get this one. Life is too short to live on someone else's terms. Have courage and be kind.

XOXO

 

[Vulpis]

Well, I didn't realize this, but when we had the relationship talk the reality never really dawned on either of us. The idea of a "break" was definitely a crutch, and not a very good one.

Last night we got into an argument. We were out with friends, and on the way back I thought he had sped ahead of me to get home without me, which he does when he's upset. Turns out he was behind me playing a bad joke, or being playful. I didn't realize until we got to our building. Confused, tipsy, and annoyed, I didn't react well and said something like "Why were you weirdly following me?"

Then he broke, said "Wow, I can't even fucking talk to you for one minute." And walked into the bathroom.

Stunned and confused, I left to go for a walk.

While I was walking, trying to decompress and not get upset, he calls me. He wants me to come home because he doesn't like me walking alone at night (we live in an extremely safe area). I tell him no, that I don't want to come back just to do the same old crap, have him snub me, then eventually explain to me how this is all my fault and that I should get a handle on myself.

He keeps calling, I keep saying no. Eventually he starts saying things like "What's happened to our relationship? How have things gotten like this?" And I tell him, again, that we're in different places and clearly want different things. I tell him we shouldn't be together. I can hear him starting to cry on the other line. I'm trying to stay calm. He asks me how long I've known that I don't want to be with him. I told him not very, that it'd been on my mind but had only really dawned on me recently.

I crushed his dreams of the future. He'd laid out all these super long term plans that are now dead without me. He wanted me to go to school, come back with money-making skills, and combine incomes so we could buy property and travel and do all of these things. And I wanted those things too. And now they are dead because of me. I outgrew the box.

Last night he told me he has no other close friends. I told him that's not okay. We cried together.

This morning he is distancing himself from me. I guess he needs space. But I worry about him. I still love him.

I broke his heart. I feel like a monster.

 

[Leetah]

I'm sorry you feel so bad. Break ups are awful, but think how much worse he would feel if you went on pretending things were OK when they were not. If you had said "I have been feeling this way for months without telling you", humiliation could have been added to the disappointment and sadness.

I hope you can continue to mourn together then find a new balance as friends.

Leetah

 

[opalescent]

One of life's hardest lessons is that it is sometimes necessary to hurt people we love in order to be fully ourselves.

He's trying more and more to control you (the 'fake' stalking and gaslighting you about it is bizarre at best and really worrying). It's time to move on before this behavior gets worse.

You're not a monster. You're doing the right thing for both of you, although it probably doesn't feel like that right now.

 

[Spork]

Are you his Mommy, Vulpis?

I'd like you to consider, that allowing things to go on and fulfilling the role he had in mind for you, would have made it IMPOSSIBLE for him to grow and be a complete man. He would not have had to learn how to manage his life and reach goals on his own, because he is counting on you to be the energy that propels the ship, him standing proudly at the helm, to wherever you're both hoping to get to in life.

That is incredibly unfair to you, because he expects you to sacrifice any individual personal growth you might have had on your own, to live as HIS woman under HIS terms. Being only womanstuff to fill up the vessel of his needs.

Enabling him. Stifling and eventually enslaving you. Sounds a lot like codependency to me. As someone who just stopped doing that, in the last year, and who did feel like a monster and occasionally still does...

Allow me to congratulate you on a healthy decision. Allow me to say that your life is valuable enough that he's got NO right to expect you to sacrifice it for him, and that whether he heals and grows from here, or his life falls into ruin...it was NEVER your burden to bear.

He is a grown ass adult. Stop trying to feeling guilty for depriving him of something that you should not have HAD to give him in the first place. (It's hard, I know, like I said sometimes it still pinches me a little, too.)

Well, I didn't realize this, but when we had the relationship talk the reality never really dawned on either of us. The idea of a "break" was definitely a crutch, and not a very good one.

Last night we got into an argument. We were out with friends, and on the way back I thought he had sped ahead of me to get home without me, which he does when he's upset. Turns out he was behind me playing a bad joke, or being playful. I didn't realize until we got to our building. Confused, tipsy, and annoyed, I didn't react well and said something like "Why were you weirdly following me?"

Then he broke, said "Wow, I can't even fucking talk to you for one minute." And walked into the bathroom.

Stunned and confused, I left to go for a walk.

While I was walking, trying to decompress and not get upset, he calls me. He wants me to come home because he doesn't like me walking alone at night (we live in an extremely safe area). I tell him no, that I don't want to come back just to do the same old crap, have him snub me, then eventually explain to me how this is all my fault and that I should get a handle on myself.

He keeps calling, I keep saying no. Eventually he starts saying things like "What's happened to our relationship? How have things gotten like this?" And I tell him, again, that we're in different places and clearly want different things. I tell him we shouldn't be together. I can hear him starting to cry on the other line. I'm trying to stay calm. He asks me how long I've known that I don't want to be with him. I told him not very, that it'd been on my mind but had only really dawned on me recently.

I crushed his dreams of the future. He'd laid out all these super long term plans that are now dead without me. He wanted me to go to school, come back with money-making skills, and combine incomes so we could buy property and travel and do all of these things. And I wanted those things too. And now they are dead because of me. I outgrew the box.

Last night he told me he has no other close friends. I told him that's not okay. We cried together.

This morning he is distancing himself from me. I guess he needs space. But I worry about him. I still love him.

I broke his heart. I feel like a monster.

 

[GalaGirl]

What did you do? You were confused, tipsy, and annoyed by his behavior/your perception of his behavior. You asked a question to clarify what's going on so you are not confused any more. You asked him why he was following you around. Totally reasonable question.

He didn't have to lash out at you over that. He could have just said "I was trying to be playful but I guess it didn't go how I hoped. Sorry."

I outgrew the box.

It happens. Sometimes people grow apart. In your case, you also seem to have realized that this is not a healthy dynamic even if you love him. Too much "hovering" and enmeshment.

Last night he told me he has no other close friends.

That is a result of his behavior if he hasn't taken the time to cultivate them. It's not your job to fix that. It is his.

This morning he is distancing himself from me. I guess he needs space.

So give him lots of space. Let him sort himself out. His emotional management is his job. Don't continue to be his crutch or his enabler.

You were upset, you did your emotional management by taking a walk in a safe neighborhood.

What's so horrible about each one dealing with their own upset to cool off?

But I worry about him. I still love him.

It's ok to love him, and at the same time realize you are not a good fit any more. Sometimes the most loving thing one can do is to LET GO.

I broke his heart. I feel like a monster.

You will feel all kinds of things, but recognizing you no long fit together? Is NOT monstruous and you haven't done anything TO him.

It is simply recognizing the situation for what it is -- You two don't fit together.

I am concerned that you have been hearing too much of this kind of stuff...

He wants me to come home because he doesn't like me walking alone at night (we live in an extremely safe area). I tell him no, that I don't want to come back just to do the same old crap, have him snub me, then eventually explain to me how this is all my fault and that I should get a handle on myself.

... that now you automatically take everything as "your fault." That is not so.

It's your first adult break up. It will feel intense, sucky, etc. I'm very sorry for that -- mine was terrible. I can only imagine how UGH you must feel right now.

I learned a lot from mine and hopefully you will from yours too. Like what your break up preferences are. I don't know if it is any comfort, but it does get better and you may come to appreciate good partings.

Right now? Stick to your plan leave in Sept. for school.

Please be careful not to get sucked back in just because you pity him. That behavior won't suddenly won't make it a match or make it a healthy dynamic.

Dragging things out in the "breaking up" time doesn't help either of you. I think it better to be quick and CLEAR about it and then linger in the healing place. Better place in which to linger.

Hang in there.

Galagirl

 

[Tinwen]

I feel for you Vulpis.