Sodomy laws

I seriously doubt if recreational bestiality will ever be acceptable. However, I think the consent argument is pretty thin. That verges on anthropomorphism. If an animal can't give consent, it can't take it away. I think the argument is used because it sounds better than saying it should be illegal because it's gross. Look up how cows are artificially inseminated. I doubt if an animal would consent to that, if it could. Hint: it involves anal fisting.

I recall incest being discussed here before. There was some argument about the ramifications of having children. Personally, I don't have a problem with it outside of the kid thing, but I doubt it will be acceptable any time soon.

BTW, sodomy laws aren't completely off the books here in the US. Ironically, those laws affect heterosexual people as well. I'm proud to say I've committed felonies in several states...lol.
 
Okay, zoophilia.

I'm somewhat past "liberal" & kinda piss off the "progressives." :D But I've gotta say that loosening of governmental sanction on "deviant" sexuality created a weird loophole that I didn't see coming.

article: Zoophilia and the law

For centuries, sexual acts on animals were illegal under sodomy laws or "crime against nature" laws. Since the 1950s, most sodomy laws have been repealed....

Bestiality was outlawed in Norway in 2008, The Netherlands in 2010, Australian Capital Territory in 2011, Sweden in 2013, and Denmark in 2015.

In the U.S., as of 2016, bestiality is illegal in 42 states. Most state laws banning sex with animals were enacted between 1999 and 2016. Laws were enacted in Pennsylvania in 1999, Iowa in 2001, Maine in 2001, Illinois in 2002, Maryland in 2002, Connecticut in 2005, Washington in 2006, Arizona in 2006, Indiana in 2007, Tennessee in 2007, Colorado in 2007, Alaska in 2010, Florida in 2011, Alabama in 2014, New Jersey in 2015, New Hampshire in 2016, and Ohio in 2016. A 2001 Oregon law had its penalty increased in 2016.

Laws which prohibit non-abusive sex with animals have been criticized for being discriminatory, unjust and unconstitutional.
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To put it another way: when your state repealed its regressive anti-homosexual sodomy statues, it technically legalized bestiality.

FWIW, notice there's still eight states where it's allowed... :eek:

Yet, it was only in 2003 that New Mexico (where I lived at the time) decriminalized "unmarried cohabitation." :(

Now, with THAT said, could we say the distraction is pass't...?
 
I saw that quote amongst my so-called 'research' when I first created this thread. The recentness of bestiality laws struck me as most surprising.
 
Cohabitation only became legal in Florida in April of last year. Cat and I were legal for a whole 4 months of our 22 years.
 
Oh here's one relevant to poly folks - alienation of affection and criminal conversation are still on the books in some states, including mine. (It's a _practical_ reason, rather than an ethical one, to tread very carefully with situations where a partner is married...)

(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alienation_of_affections for those who haven't heard of it)
 
I'd heard of this law. Didn't know it still existed. For those too lazy to click the link, Alienation of affection allows (amongst other things) one spouse member to legally sue the counsellor if the counsellor suggests divorce.
 
Likely enough that I know someone who is the daughter of double cousins. From another country. It's freakish to me- her father married a cousin who looks exactly, EXACTLY like his sister. The daughter has a rare genetic disease, too.

And, I myself am a productive of several generations of cousin marriages. I wouldn't be here if there was a law against double cousins getting married, a hundred years ago. I knew none of this before I got interested in genealogy. I'm still not sure I needed to know.
 
It was interesting to look at my genealogy, thing is my Dad's family is from rural North Carolina going back to the 1500's. They were mostly tobacco farmers out there. There are only so many families within a reasonable travel radius. So I found an interesting point where a pair of brothers each married one of a pair of (not previously related to the boys) sisters...and then a handful of generations down the line, their descendants married one another. I am not going to try to puzzle out what kind of cousins anybody was to anybody else, or what you call that. It's North Carolina...the family tree is covered in kudzu vine, and has half-swallowed somebody's rusty bicycle. Forget it.

The issues I have with incest and with the underage are mostly around positions of power/authority or bonds and relationships that make it difficult or impossible for one or both participants to quit the interaction if they wish to. In other words, proper consent, is consent that can be withdrawn at any time. If you have this relationship that is either familial, or something like teacher/student, then if you need or want it to stop, you can't always necessarily get away. It is the potential for coercion that mostly concerns me. And with the pre-pubescent, to a certain young age, there is the additional stuff of physical harm, or psychological damage (via "bad programming" and harm to one's ability to form healthy relationships later on, if nothing else) and the bare fact that as children, we don't always know if an adult is doing something wrong, or that we have any right to say no. At least as a kid, I was treated badly (not sexual, just neglect/abuse) by a babysitter...and I never questioned it or told my parents. It's not that I was threatened or told not to tell, I just assumed that this adult was doing what was in their rights to do, and I had to put up with it, and it must be because I am bad. It did not occur to me that I had any power at all to make it stop, or to object. The mind of a child.

But past puberty though... I actually think that the relationship matters more than the age difference. How on earth, is it ok for two clueless 14 year olds to have sex together, but it's not ok if an older person takes the place of one of them, if there is no coercive preexisting relationship or authority dynamic or anything? I once read something about David Bowie taking the virginity of a 14 year old at a party. I don't know if the story is true or not, but if I could have had Bowie at ANY AGE for my first? Oh hell yes. (EDIT: I don't mean if I were any age, I mean even if he were quite older and I was a teenager. Just to be clear.) The problems I see come from any relationship beyond sex...not from sex itself. I don't see a difference between a one time romp with someone who is the same age or much older.

I would like to see BDSM become more legally ok. Right now, it is considered (technically) assault. You cannot give consent to someone to hit you...unless it's in some kind of competitive sport, then that's ok. So participating in boxing or (American) football or MMA until you have brain damage is perfectly fine. But letting somebody swat you with a flogger? Oh, now that is just crazy! :rolleyes:
 
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Agree with all your points Spork. And I don't think underage sex with a much older adult will be legal anytime soon. It is possible to argue that an older, wiser individual could help guide a younger underage person and teach them about sex and relationships, but the potential for abuse, the potential for wanting out but unable to get out of the relationship is higher due to the maturity discrepancy. I don't see underage sex happening between an older and younger individual. I suspect pedophilia will still be frowned upon in the future. Incest between two consenting adults however... hard for me to swallow but maybe possible? I mean, there's a higher chance for genetic defects to be passed on to any offspring and no one's saying there needs to be any offspring, but otherwise, it's two consenting adults, right?

On a side note, I just looked at the rules for submitting stories to literotica.com, a website for erotic stories. Guess what? They have 2 banned topics. Underage porn when done with an adult and bestiality! Haha! Only those 2 topics are banned. Everything else is free to pursue. Interestingly, 2 minors having sex seems to be okay - it's just an adult and a minor that's stated to be not tolerated by the rules. Also interestingly, you can have werewolf sex, alien species sex and furry sex, but in those cases, the werewolf or alien seems to have to depict some measure of intelligence - so it's not technically bestiality. Bear in mind, this website has ALL KINDS of crazy illegal stories - rape, drugs, rape drugs, mind control, hypnosis, non consent, slavery, sex trafficking, violence, killing... I guess our laws or taboos run deep when it comes to bestiality and pedophilia - even in fantasy, these topics are still banned. ;) But the stories can depict killing. That's fine.

I really think the future will be different. Our children or our children's children will look at us funny.
 
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Shaya said:
Agree with all your points Spork. And I don't think underage sex with a much older adult will be legal anytime soon. It is possible to argue that an older, wiser individual could help guide a younger underage person and teach them about sex and relationships, but the potential for abuse, the potential for wanting out but unable to get out of the relationship is higher due to the maturity discrepancy. I don't see underage sex happening between an older and younger individual. I suspect pedophilia will still be frowned upon in the future. Incest between two consenting adults however... hard for me to swallow but maybe possible? I mean, there's a higher chance for genetic defects to be passed on to any offspring and no one's saying there needs to be any offspring, but otherwise, it's two consenting adults, right?

On a side note, I just looked at the rules for submitting stories to literotica.com, a website for erotic stories. Guess what? They have 2 banned topics. Underage porn when done with an adult and bestiality! Haha! Only those 2 topics are banned. Everything else is free to pursue. Interestingly, 2 minors having sex seems to be okay - it's just an adult and a minor that's stated to be not tolerated by the rules. Also interestingly, you can have werewolf sex, alien species sex and furry sex, but in those cases, the werewolf or alien seems to have to depict some measure of intelligence - so it's not technically bestiality. Bear in mind, this website has ALL KINDS of crazy illegal stories - rape, drugs, rape drugs, mind control, hypnosis, non consent, slavery, sex trafficking, violence, killing... I guess our laws or taboos run deep when it comes to bestiality and pedophilia - even in fantasy, these topics are still banned. ;) But the stories can depict killing. That's fine.

I really think the future will be different. Our children or our children's children will look at us funny.
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There is actually a different term for attraction to post pubescent teen minors, not necessarily pedophilia.

And the other reason that my thinking is problematic for society is the insistence that proper sex should be confined to "serious" relationships. In some states, an adult can marry a minor and then have legal sex with them. I believe this to be all wrong. I think it is within the relationship, not the sex itself, that the potential for abusive power inequality exists. I thought about this when I watched the film, "Lolita." If the man had found a way to simply sneak off with the girl for a tryst, then vanished from her life, instead of abducting her and initiating the bizarre and perilous blend of authority figure and love partner...

I also speak from the place of having been a very sexually active teen. I had most of my partners between ages 14-18. Most left little trace and no damage, the one who made a mess of my life and my mind was the man I began a marriage-serious relationship with at 18. But I'm saying that there isn't much difference between me willingly having a casual encounter with a younger, or an older partner as a teenager. A relationship though, now that's another story.

But society doesn't exactly look kindly upon the notion of casual sex for women, let alone teenage girls. I think that might be a mistake. At least my mother made sure I had birth control and regular STI screening.
 
Florida's age of consent laws are interesting. Florida statutory rape law is violated when a person has consensual sexual intercourse with an individual under Age 18. Close in age exemptions exist, allowing minors aged 16 or 17 to engage in sexual intercourse with a partner no older than age 23. Who knows how they came up with 23?

A friend of mine picked up a girl in a bar. They went back to his place. She spent the weekend there. It turned out she was 17. Her parents weren't too happy when they found out. He had no idea. He assumed she was at least 21 because she was drinking in a bar. He may have been a horn dog, but he wasn't preying on teenage girls. Now he is on the same web page as guys who raped 2 year olds.
 
vinsanity0 said:
Florida's age of consent laws are interesting. Florida statutory rape law is violated when a person has consensual sexual intercourse with an individual under Age 18. Close in age exemptions exist, allowing minors aged 16 or 17 to engage in sexual intercourse with a partner no older than age 23. Who knows how they came up with 23?

A friend of mine picked up a girl in a bar. They went back to his place. She spent the weekend there. It turned out she was 17. Her parents weren't too happy when they found out. He had no idea. He assumed she was at least 21 because she was drinking in a bar. He may have been a horn dog, but he wasn't preying on teenage girls. Now he is on the same web page as guys who raped 2 year olds.
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Yeah, that is seriously awful. I think that the offender registry should be limited to nonconsensual acts and those involving persons pre-puberty. Teens often look like adults. I'm also rather put off by the pathologizing of attraction to teens. Attraction to young people is natural. A teenager might not have the mind of an adult (but neither does an 18 year old!) but they sure do not have the body of a child. While I think perhaps an older man might do well to make wiser life choices than to get involved with a very young partner for practical reasons, I do NOT think he is any sort of a monster for finding a 15 year old attractive or sexually interesting. He should not be made to feel like a predator in any way for that.

EDIT: I only used gendered language because I am thinking of particular people (who were men) who expressed to me feelings of guilt or shame for even looking at teenage girls. I know that the whole thing could go either way.
 
In the end, I guess it still strikes me as odd that we impose harsher penalties for humans when considering killing vs rape, but the reverse when it comes to animals.
 
Bible: https://www.gotquestions.org/bestiality.html

The Bible mentions bestiality in four different passages. Exodus 22:19 says, “Anyone who has sexual relations with an animal must be put to death.” Leviticus 18:23 declares, “Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.” Leviticus 20:15-16 commands, “If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal. If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it, kill both the woman and the animal. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.” Deuteronomy 27:21 agrees, “Cursed is the man who has sexual relations with any animal.”
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Not having ever read the bible, does it depict rape or have any direct comments about it? Or underage sex? Or incest? Or <insert any other frowned-upon sex act> other than bestiality?

Actually, more interested in killing and rape at the moment, as a continuation of my earlier comment.
 
Shaya said:
Not having ever read the bible, does it depict rape or have any direct comments about it? Or underage sex? Or incest? Or <insert any other frowned-upon sex act> other than bestiality?

Actually, more interested in killing and rape at the moment, as a continuation of my earlier comment.
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There is plenty of rape in the bible, including incestuous rape. Rape is treated more as a property rights violation rather than a crime against the woman herself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_the_Hebrew_Bible
 
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