Something is bugging me about Sweet Lady

Emmy, thanks for adding the sig. That does clarify.

My one question remaining is, who are Sweet Lady and Bud to each other? Bud is your Master; you're sorting your place with Sweet Lady. But are they in a Master/slave dynamic with each other, or a Dom(me)/sub dynamic, or no BDSM type of thing whatsoever? You say they're involved, and it helps to know that, but I've seen one or two other people asking what their roles are in each other's life, so adding that might be helpful as well.
 
I'm not into BDSM, but from the long-ass thread we have here about it, I learned a lot and have read a bit about it elsewhere as well. So, my confusion about all this, is this: my understanding is that a Master/Dom shouldn't really force or expect a Slave or Sub to have sex with anyone they don't want to. Essentially, that's non-consensual... aka rape. I thought that everything a Master or Dom has a Sub or Slave do is really, ultimately for the Sub/Slave's benefit and according to previously agreed-upon contracts about what sort of growth and goals the Sub or Slave wishes to achieve. If that is the case, generally, then why are these two women feeling like they have to please their Master by hooking up sexually when, it seems obvious enough, neither of them really wants it? Something smells fishy here, and I would question the Master's motives and capability in this dynamic. I also think some contract re-negotiation is in order.

I have been into BDSM, mostly the S&M part for 48 years. The woman that my wife and I loved was my Mistress sometimes during sex but only during sex. Everything was consensual and I had a safe word to stop or slow down. Safe and sane play is a must and we knew a lot of kinky couples who did some crazy stuff but it was always consensual. As you said, slavery is illegal and in reality, it is the sub that is in control, directly or indirectly because the dom cannot do anything that the sub does not want done to him/her

Turns out that BDSM is often the refuge of depression and as soon as I was treated, I lost my desire for BDSM, at least at the level that I used to be at.
 
maxnsue, I wanted to chat with you but couldn't send you a private message. Would you be willing to send me one please? I've been following your posts. You seem intelligent and level headed. I would love to spend some time talking with you.
 
Wanted to update that things are moving forward. Some days are better for me than others but I'm trying really hard to keep my stuff as my own. One thing I've struggled with is my feelings after Bud and Sweet Lady are together sexually. We all sleep in the same bed when she's over so sex can be any combination of 2 or 3 that we feel like. When it's just Bud and Sweet Lady I requested Bud get up & have coffee with me the next morning before work. He said that was reasonable but for 2 mornings he stayed in bed cuddled up sleeping. I went to work feeling forgotten. He's better about it now that I explained to him how important it was to me to have that simple little thing. Where I struggle though is with feeling selfish to want that time with him so badly. We always had coffee together before Sweet Lady was involved. Am I out of line for wanting it? Is this putting my stuff onto them? :)
 
You absolutely have the right to feel however you feel. If you feel uncomfortable or disconnected after they have sex together and feel better when you have a connection with Bud the next morning, that's okay.

As for being out of line, no, I would say you definitely aren't. You aren't asking for anything unreasonable. You're just expressing your need to reconnect with him before work if you haven't connected with him the night before. I don't think there's anything wrong with that at all, and it certainly isn't selfish. You're simply asking for his help in maintaining the relationship between the two of you, and it's important that all facets of a polyship be maintained in a way that makes the people involved in that facet feel comfortable, safe, and valued. At least in my opinion.
 
You absolutely have the right to feel however you feel. If you feel uncomfortable or disconnected after they have sex together and feel better when you have a connection with Bud the next morning, that's okay.

As for being out of line, no, I would say you definitely aren't. You aren't asking for anything unreasonable. You're just expressing your need to reconnect with him before work if you haven't connected with him the night before. I don't think there's anything wrong with that at all, and it certainly isn't selfish. You're simply asking for his help in maintaining the relationship between the two of you, and it's important that all facets of a polyship be maintained in a way that makes the people involved in that facet feel comfortable, safe, and valued. At least in my opinion.

This sentence in your reply made me wonder is it really maintaining the relationship though if the relationship is forever changed? We aren't really maintaining anything. At least that's how it feels right now. Whether things work out between all of us for the long term or not, my relationship with him won't ever be just him and I again. There has been sex and feelings with another person. You can't take that back once it has happened.

I feel like I'm grieving a huge loss right now because of it. I spent almost 14 years with him as my only one. My relationship with him was awesome when we were one on one. He was my other half, my soul mate, my best friend, the one I trusted with my very life no questions asked. Now I'm so disconnected from that it seems impossible to ever get back there again. I'm trying though. This is all so new I don't have any reference point to know what's normal and what isn't. Nobody we know in real life is poly so there isn't someone I can call to ask questions.

Edited to add:

There are lots of good things between us too. I don't want to give the impression there isn't by only mentioning the things I struggle with. When we've had a great day that's not something I would come ask advice about. Like the other day I got home from work and it had been horrible with clients in the crisis bed being combative etc. Sweet Lady saw I was stressed so she came outside to our table, put her arms around me, gave me a hug and kiss on the cheek. Then sat and talked with me until we were laughing like a couple of school girls with stress from work having been chased a million miles away.

Overall I am happy. There's these fleeting moments when my mind creeps into a negative space that I need help being able to get myself out of. I HATE change!!! I'm such a creature of habit that change is terrifying for me.
 
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There are 4 relationships here that must be feed or they will die of starvation:

You & Bud
You & Sweet Lady
Bud & Sweet Lady
You, Bud & Sweet Lady

Each of these configurations need attention and nurturing. Unfortunately, the oldest relationship tends to get pushed aside as focus shift to the newer ones.
 
Amazing

It's pretty amazing to me how similar our situations are... you are just farther down the road than i am bc Master hasn't yet had sex alone with her...
Scares me... A lot...

It won't ever be the same but what if it's better? i am terrified of change (it's so bad my staff send me photos if anything in the office is rearranged)...but i have always looked back and been proud of my decisions and happier with where things are

Anyway... Always thinking happy thoughts for you and yours :)

~epi
 
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Whether things work out between all of us for the long term or not, my relationship with him won't ever be just him and I again.

Why isn't your relationship with him not just about you and your spouse?

My relationship with Butch has NOTHING to do with Murf. Murfs relationship with me has NOTHING to do with Butch. Butch's relationship with his girlfriend has NOTHING to do with me.
 
Why isn't your relationship with him not just about you and your spouse?

Because I will always know there has been someone else besides me with him and someone else besides him with me in sexual ways. I know it's a mono mindset but I was perfectly happy with being mono. Silly, I know but it is how my brain has been programmed to work for 37 years. It's HARD to undo something like that.

Bud on the other hand was NOT happy being mono. He struggled for many years to continue being mono for me. I saw the heartache it caused him and I couldn't bring myself to be selfish enough to continue telling him being mono was what he had to do in order to be married to me. I love him way too much to ever force him in any way to be something he's not.
 
Could this help you articulate what you feel?

http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/are-you-in-poly-hell


I saw the heartache it caused him and I couldn't bring myself to be selfish enough to continue telling him being mono was what he had to do in order to be married to me. I love him way too much to ever force him in any way to be something he's not.

I don't think that there is anything wrong with you stating your preference. It is not selfish to state your preference for how you like to relate.

It is up to him to decide to participate under those terms or not. You aren't forcing him. He has free will. If he chooses to do so, and finds it not to his liking any more or to his ability, he can ask renegotiate or bow out.

If you are willing to renegotiate, you do. If you are not willing, you bow out. If things do not line up I think it is healthier to split. You both grieve, and heal and move on.

I do NOT suggest "go along with it" while going against your own grain in order to try to put off dealing with the possibility of a break up or from fear of "losing" the partner.

Are you doing that right now? Going against your own grain? :(

Because that is a very different thing to me than wanting to participate in a polyship for your own enjoyment but being on a learning curve. wanting to be here and needing adjustment time is a different thing that not really wanting to be here at all.

You could not participate in a polyship "for Bud." That's a good way to build up resentment over time. I am concerned for you. How much do you love you? Are you forcing you to be in something you are not?

That's only something you can answer for yourself. :(

Galagirl
 
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Could this help you articulate what you feel?

http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/are-you-in-poly-hell




I don't think that there is anything wrong with you stating your preference. It is not selfish to state your preference for how you like to relate.

It is up to him to decide to participate under those terms or not. You aren't forcing him. He has free will. If he chooses to do so, and finds it not to his liking any more or to his ability, he can ask renegotiate or bow out.

If you are willing to renegotiate, you do. If you are not willing, you bow out. You both grieve, and heal and move on.

I do NOT suggest "go along with it" while going against your own grain in order to try to put off dealing with the possibility of a break up or from fear of "losing: the partner.

Are you doing that right now? Going against your own grain? :(

Because that is a very different thing to me than wanting to participate in a polyship for your own enjoyment but being on a learning curve.

You could not participate in a polyship "for Bud." That's a good way to build up resentment over time. I am concerned for you. How much do you love you? Are you forcing you to be in something you are not? :(

Galagirl

I enjoy my time with Sweet Lady. I couldn't imagine not having her in my life now that she's here. She was a friend for many years before becoming anything else. I was attracted to her, along with many other women over the years, but never acted on any of those feelings because I was married and didn't want to cheat. Before marrying Bud I did date women. Heck I was the talk of the school my senior year in the tiny town I went to high school in because I took my girlfriend as my date. (That was how I came out publicly as bi.) If the right woman had come along it would have been very likely I'd have married her instead of a man. So it's not that I'm being actually forced to do something. The force is purely emotional based on my preconceived notions of what a "proper" relationship looks like. I see clearly that Bud loves me just as much now as he did before. It's this damn mono mindset I keep coming up against. My heart tells me love in all it's forms is OK. My head tells me NO you are only supposed to love one person. I don't know how to break that down so I can dispose of it properly. I want to get rid of it so I can be completely open to enjoying this as much as possible. The whole process feels sooooo overwhelming. Like I'm trying to carry away a dump truck worth of dirt with a teaspoon. Does any of this make any sense at all cause I sure feel crazy at times?
 
I understand what you're saying about how your relationship with Bud has changed. That is true. You both will always know that there's been another sexual and romantic partner in the mix.

BUT... your relationship with Bud is still YOUR relationship with BUD. And that relationship still needs and deserves to be nurtured and maintained on its own, just as Bud's relationship with Sweet Lady, yours with Sweet Lady, and the three of you together, all deserve to be nurtured and maintained.

Doesn't matter that the relationship has changed; it's still a relationship between the two of you, and you still have every right to ask for him to help maintain that relationship.

Like SNeacail said (copied and pasted because I forgot to hit the quote button):
There are 4 relationships here that must be feed or they will die of starvation:

You & Bud
You & Sweet Lady
Bud & Sweet Lady
You, Bud & Sweet Lady

Each of these configurations need attention and nurturing. Unfortunately, the oldest relationship tends to get pushed aside as focus shift to the newer ones.
 
Galagirl,

The article on poly hell was perfect. It puts into words so much of what I'm feeling. Maybe I'm not crazy after all. :)

As far as your concerns; I love myself enough to know I deserve to be happy. If I were unhappy with Bud I would walk away. But I'm not unhappy with him. I'm super frustrated with all these crappy emotions rearing up that make no sense in any logical way. I mean seriously, I stayed in a pissy mood for an entire day over a missed cup of coffee?

Typing it all out makes it seem like an anthill when it felt like Mt. Rushmore. Bud has never been good with remembering things. I still have to remind him of every bday, holiday, event etc as it approaches or it's simply not on his radar to remember.

As I typed that it made me realize perhaps I'm being overly sensitive right now about things like coffee because it is his nature to be forgetful but not hurtful? Maybe he honestly did forget on those mornings, same as he does his sister's bday every year? He's been my sexy blonde airhead long before Sweet Lady was anything more than a friend. :) Somehow laying blame on the relationship with her for his forgetfulness isn't fair to any of us.

Bud and I talked for many years about all of this before moving forward. I made the mistake of believing that since I'm not a jealous person it would be super easy to walk away from my mono upbringing. I was very very wrong! This is hard work, super hard work.
 
I'm not innocent in all this either. Tonight Bud and I planned on going to bed early, as soon as kids were in bed, because Sweet Lady is working late. She sent me a text during her break about her supervisor at work being mean to her again. I found myself wanting to wait up to talk with her instead of going to bed with Bud. Not because she's more important than Bud but because I want to be there for her when she needs me. Hmmm this could be used to change the way my thoughts run when Bud is doing the same. Sorry for all the posts. It helps to be able to go back and read my journey later on when I'm needing to gain reference for something else.
 
I asked Bud to read the article Galagirl linked in her post tonight. His initial reaction was to want to talk to Sweet Lady about putting limits on their relationship so I didn't feel some of the things mentioned. From everything I've seen here and other places that is not the right answer. I don't want my struggles adjusting to the new me/us/them to hurt her in any way. Her relationship with Bud shouldn't have to follow any rules because of what is going on in my head.

How do we actually put that into practice though? I'm having a hard time figuring out how it wouldn't spill over into their relationship. For example; my coffee request wasn't unreasonable but it still spilled over into their relationship because he had to get up out of bed with her in order to have coffee with me before work. Which he did this morning. She followed about 10 minutes later because him and I getting up woke her. I felt bad she didn't get to sleep in yet I really enjoyed having that hour with Bud and her.

Am I making this more complicated than it needs to be by over analyzing all these little things?
 
Because I will always know there has been someone else besides me with him and someone else besides him with me in sexual ways. I know it's a mono mindset but I was perfectly happy with being mono.

That is a mono mindset but I feel the same way and I identify as mono. I know in my mind that it will never just be me and her. I'm the one that has to get used to and be okay with being alone half the time.
 
There are 4 relationships here that must be feed or they will die of starvation:

You & Bud
You & Sweet Lady
Bud & Sweet Lady
You, Bud & Sweet Lady

There's a fifth: YOU.
If you're miserable, it bleeds into all the above.

It's okay to want to mourn what you had before you can move on to accepting what you have now. It doesn't have to mean you're not okay with the potential future, but the Mono relationship between you and Bud was a huge part of your life, with all the goals and assumptions about your future that many people have. And now it's changing.

Feel what you're feeling and grieve. You can't get through it if you keep burying it because you want to be happy for Bud and Sweet Lady. I made that mistake early in our relationship, and all it did was foster a lot of resentment in me for Xena.

Feel, deal, and heal. And be honest with them through it all - they seem to want to be there for you; take them up on that.
 
Alright, this is a triad where each of the 3 is involved with the other two romantically. You want to be here but are on a steep learning curve and experiencing a lot of poly hell. Part of the price of admission.

Bud is willing to work with you on this -- is Sweet Lady? There is nothing wrong with ALL of you reading the poly hell article together as a triad, or all of you coming up with something. Bud's first brainstorm thing is to bring Sweet Lady into the conversation and suggests some temporary limits where things could change. Nothing wrong with training wheels on a bike so there's less wobble and then taking them off later. How's Sweet Lady feel about it? What are her brainstorm things? How do you feel about it? What are your brainstorm things?

For all you know creating opportunity to share and talk about relationship stuff gives the other two opportunity to air out what THEY have going on in the transition period as you all move toward the "new normal." And opportunities where YOU could be the supportive partner.

There's nothing wrong with TALKING it through, nobody is being forced to change anything against their will. Why do you shy away from having the discussion with both your partners? What's so horrible about your triad partners helping you through a hard transition time? Or you offering to help them? :confused:

I don't want my struggles adjusting to the new me/us/them to hurt her in any way.

Even when sharing in your joys and concerns is part of what she signed up for in a triad? That's a good way to keep her blocked "out" -- to not let her in.
Her relationship with Bud shouldn't have to follow any rules because of what is going on in my head.

I observe you fight the "should" thing. Could change it to "could." Her relationship with Bud could follow some guidelines to help ease you through the transition. Guess what? Your relationship with Bud could too to make it easier on her. So could your relationship with Sweet Lady follow some things to make the transition time easier on Bud. Are you all willing to talk and sort out so you can all have an easier transition time? What's so horrible about that? Talk BACK to "the Should voice." Learn to self sooth a bit.

Could this article help you (esp page 5 and 6) articulate what it is about jealousy that is bugging you?

http://practicalpolyamory.com/images/Jealousy_Updated_10-6-10.pdf

Or any of these on jealousy?

http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles

Of the unique things to a triad is that "the other guy" is your partner. It isn't a model where Bud is the hinge and "the other guy" is some metamour over THERE type person. That person is actually your other partner. It isn't dealing with one V. It's dealing with three V's stacked up. The feelings are amped up as a result.

  • You do not only experience Bud jealousy where you worry about his other partner taking something you have (time with Bud). You experience envy with Bud at the same time -- wishing you had what he had (time with Sweet Lady.)
  • You do not only experience Sweet Lady jealousy where you worry about her other partner taking something you have (time with Sweet Lady). You experience envy with Sweet Lady at the same time -- wishing you had what she had (time with Bud.)

I think you could be blaming yourself or your monogamous upbringing when some of it is actually the model you guys are trying to practice. It's a tough one. Not impossible, but a tough one. I also think you ARE making this harder on yourself by analayzing everything so much. RELAX. :eek:

If typing things out makes it feel like an anthill when it felt like Mount Rushmore -- there you go. You have found one way to get a grip on your emotional management/anxiety/fear/panic stuff. Write it out. Cool off. Take notes for what triggers you as well as what makes you feel better. Accept it as a learning curve process. Note the other ways you discover to get your emotional management into a better place.

It is NORMAL to grieve the loss of how things were before even if you are excited and looking forward to the "new normal" because weathering changes is being up in the air. No longer the "old normal" and not yet the "new normal" because its still sorting out. Being in the in between space feels shaky. It's ok. It is NORMAL for things to be weird at the start until the "new normal" establishes itself. Weathering out the transition time is how you GET to the "new normal."

You are NOT crazy. :eek:

You are human. You are also not your thoughts or your feelings. You are the person doing the thinking and experiencing the feelings. When your internal critic pipes up telling you that you should not love two people, you can talk BACK.

1) Make it a habit to replace "should" with "could." It then becomes "You could not love two people."
2) Talk BACK and self soothe: "That's right. I could not. But I DO love two people. So.... it is what it is."
3) Identify: "What's bugging me right now? Anything? Or is this just chatterbox noise burbling up?'
4) Problem solve: (If there is actually a problem. If chatterbox stuff, ignore.)

Some of this is going to be changes in the interpersonal skills -- how you related to Bud and Sweet Lady. Some of it is going to be changes with intrapersonal skills -- how you relate and talk to yourself inside your own head. And how you talk inside your head? It either ADDS to your problems in transition time or TAKES AWAY from the problems of transition time. Go with the ones that take away and reduce your stress. Don't add to your stress.

Hang in there. You can do this. Become more willing to talk to your triad partners and forge the new ways of going together. That's what you want right? Don't balk at first opportunity. Learning to work in trio is going to be a part of this... so sort it out in trio. Start a journal, sort things out with yourself too.

You will be ok.
Galagirl
 
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I asked Bud to read the article Galagirl linked in her post tonight. His initial reaction was to want to talk to Sweet Lady about putting limits on their relationship so I didn't feel some of the things mentioned. From everything I've seen here and other places that is not the right answer. I don't want my struggles adjusting to the new me/us/them to hurt her in any way. Her relationship with Bud shouldn't have to follow any rules because of what is going on in my head.

How do we actually put that into practice though? I'm having a hard time figuring out how it wouldn't spill over into their relationship. For example; my coffee request wasn't unreasonable but it still spilled over into their relationship because he had to get up out of bed with her in order to have coffee with me before work. Which he did this morning. She followed about 10 minutes later because him and I getting up woke her. I felt bad she didn't get to sleep in yet I really enjoyed having that hour with Bud and her.

Am I making this more complicated than it needs to be by over analyzing all these little things?

Does it bother you that your coffee time alone with bud was interrupted?
 
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