Steve's ENM journey

Stevek said:
That bastard! What a shitty thing to do.
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It's like some people enjoy the pursuit, and hitting that goal, one night of sex, more than actually having an ongoing relationship. It's the thrill of the hunt, and nothing more. I feel, why go to all that work, and bang someone once, just to disappear and start that whole process over again? Some kind of narcissistic duper's delight? Oh well, as they say about whores, you don't pay them to come, you pay them to leave. One does end up feeling like a whore. That guy I mentioned, he bought me sushi and a nice Sapporo. So, $40 (and much romantic urging, online and on our actual date) got him laid. That's a good deal cheaper than a decent prostitute, for him. Grrr...
Stevek said:
This whole past week feels so strange.

Now that I am looking back, there were some cracks. She never mentioned where she worked, while I gave her my business card on the first date. She never told me exactly where she lived and always gave vague information about her past. I also feel very awkward as I showed her pictures of my family. Was she always planning to disappear? I would have at least appreciated a simple text saying that she didn't want to see me anymore.

She actually knows where I live, she knows where I work, knows my wife's and kids' names and how they look. I feel like I failed at protecting my family's privacy. She just seemed like she wanted something long lasting.

My wife is fine with the texting. She teases me about it, but we have been very sexually active the past few weeks. We have never been happier.
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Lunch date was a success and I am meeting her again tomorrow for a bouldering session.
 
NRE in 3... 2... 1... The test starts. :D
 
Bouldering was successful. We are meeting for dinner on Friday this week again. she is working part time at a coffee shop. We keep texting each other often.
 
Well, at least you know where she works, unlike the former person. I wonder how she gets by on a part-time barista job, though. Is she a student?
 
Magdlyn said:
Well, at least you know where she works, unlike the former person. I wonder how she gets by on a part-time barista job, though. Is she a student?
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I think this is the girl who is a 19-year-old undergraduate, as described in Steve's other post :)
 
Thanks Meera. She is in college. Her parents are loaded (according to her) but she is trying to maintain as much independence as possible.
 
I'm not sure why I'm writing this here, but I've been seeing Kaitlyn for about three weeks, and we haven't had sex yet. This is the longest I've ever waited to be intimate with someone. I mean, we've done some second-base stuff and maybe slightly more, but I haven't asked her yet if she wants to have sex. I've tried to have sex very quickly with all my previous dates, but I'm trying to take things slow here. At some point, we have to do it, right?
 
Stevek said:
I'm not sure why I'm writing this here, but I've been seeing Kaitlyn for about three weeks, and we haven't had sex yet. This is the longest I've ever waited to be intimate with someone. I mean, we've done some second-base stuff and maybe slightly more, but I haven't asked her yet if she wants to have sex. I've tried to have sex very quickly with all my previous dates, but I'm trying to take things slow here. At some point, we have to do it, right?
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There's no "have to" when it comes to sex, right? ;)
 
Stevek said:
I'm not sure why I'm writing this here, but I've been seeing Kaitlyn for about three weeks, and we haven't had sex yet. This is the longest I've ever waited to be intimate with someone. I mean, we've done some second-base stuff and maybe slightly more, but I haven't asked her yet if she wants to have sex. I've tried to have sex very quickly with all my previous dates, but I'm trying to take things slow here. At some point, we have to do it, right?
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Hmm... I'm sorry I forgot I read on your other thread that Kaitlyn was 19 and you are 38, and so she's an adolescent and you're nearly middle-aged. No offense. I am much older than you. ;)

You might be someone she is thinking about having sex with, but maybe you're just a check mark on her "bucket list": to date an older man, not necessarily hop into the sack with him after a couple dates.

We did talk about not having sex on the first date when what you want is a true connection of the souls, actual love, not just a fulfillment of lust. I'd say it's okay to go even more cautiously with an adolescent. They really don't know who they are and what they want the way a 38-year old woman/man/person might. There's a big difference between an 18 or 19-year old, or a 21-year old, and say, a 27-year old. There really is a power imbalance between you, a full adult mid-career, and a college student/part-time barista.

But then again, maybe she'd like a summer fling. There's a very outside chance she's looking for a real, loving, committed, long-term relationship with an older polyamorous man.

Sex can really complicate things.

As the Wicked Witch once said, "These things must be done delicately." You could ask her to have sex, or you could wait for her to ask, you know, or initiate. Just don't try and nail her when she's drunk.
 
Magdlyn said:
There really is a power imbalance between you, a full adult mid-career, and a college student/part-time barista.
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This. When I was her age we waited for three months with a serious boyfriend. She's probably not like me, but three weeks doesn't seem like a long time to build trust.

I strongly suggest not just asking first, but having an in-depth conversation in advance. You should know about her past experience and motivations, as and she should know about yours. You should be a good judge and only go there if she's ready beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Plus if you are in it for the sex it's gonna be hard to make sure she doesn't feel pressured, because... there is pressure.
 
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Tinwen said:
I strongly suggest not just asking first, but having an in-depth conversation in advance. You should know about her past experience and motivations, as and she should know about yours. You should be a good judge and only go there if she's ready beyond a shadow of a doubt.
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Sorry for being dense but do you mean I should ask her about how many partners she had before? That seems like a bad idea. I most certainly do not want to disclose mine (it is probably way too high for her).
 
Stevek said:
Sorry for being dense but do you mean I should ask her about how many partners she had before? That seems like a bad idea. I most certainly do not want to disclose mine (it is probably way too high for her).
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You don't have to spill the beans and tell her, "I've fucked so many people I've lost count." But it's understandable that by the time one is 38, unless one got married very young, one may have slept with a dozen or more.

However, this girl could be a virgin. Has that occurred to you? Or she may have had a dozen lovers herself already.

(I had had that many sex partners by age 19, even if some were one-night stands. I started having actual intercourse at 16, but from age 14, I'd made out with dozens, and had a bf with whom we did a bunch of sex stuff but not actual intercourse.)

Knowing this could make a difference in how she wants to proceed with you sexually/romantically. After all, many women need to trust a man well to have sex with him. Being open, honest and transparent builds trust. You seem to want to hide your sexual past... how does that make her trust you?

It all depends on HOW you share, of course. You don't need to go into great detail. She'd probably expect an almost 40-year old to be sexually experienced, and to maybe have gone through a wild sowing of oats era at some point. You can't know what number of sex partners would be "way too high" for her. And if your number is too high, and it's a turn off, she's probably not the girl for you, anyway.

Maybe she's tired of "boys," awkward, bad at kissing and sex, not quite clean, etc. Maybe she wants an experienced man who knows how to please a woman, and has the patience to do it, instead of just getting on top and cumming in 30 seconds.

Being open about your sexuality might put her at ease, especially since you're new to polyamory, and she's probably curious how you came to the decision to now practice it.
 
Stevek said:
Do you mean I should ask her about how many partners she had before? That seems like a bad idea. I most certainly do not want to disclose mine. It is probably way too high for her.
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I don't want to pretend I have the ONE RIGHT WAY here. In fact, I'm definitely on the cautious end of the spectrum (+informed by kink community negotiations), but I'm all for radical honesty. It's not just the number of partners. In fact, if it's multiple, an exact number is not of interest. If I'm going to sleep with someone, I'd be interested in:

- Their general approach to sex and relationships. Do they do casual at all, or is sex something reserved for long-term commitment? How special is sex to them? Is having sex tied to being in love or certain relationship expectations?
- Experience. Did they only sleep with one or two partners, or do they have experience with a variety? Are they vanilla, or have they tried it all? Any bad sex or relationship experience in their past that needs special consideration?
- Self-awareness. Do they know how they typically react? Are they aware physical intimacy might make them fall in love?
- Health and safety. Should you do an STD test first? Birth control?
- Needs and wants. Do they want sex, and if so, is it penetrative sex? Do they need a particular approach? Do they want to make your "first time" special? Etc.

Not all of it has to be covered, but I'd argue most of it should. You don't have to do that in one conversation. You don't have to make it a dead serious interview, you can totally make it playful. But IMHO, you should be at a level of intimacy where you can ask those questions and give those answers before actually proceeding. Plus, you should lead by example in communicating openly and honestly. It doesn't make you any less.
 
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Tinwen said:
I don't want to pretend I have the ONE RIGHT WAY here. I'm definitely on the cautious end of the spectrum. I'm all for radical honesty. It's not just the number of partners. If it's multiple, an exact number is not of interest. If I'm to sleep with someone, I'd be interested in
- Their general approach to sex and relationships. Do they do casual at all, or is sex something reserved for long-term commitment? How special is sex to them? Is having sex tied to being in love or certain relationship expectations?
- Experience. Did they only sleep with one or two partners, or do they have experience with a variety? Any bad sex or relationship experience in their past that needs special consideration?
- Self-awareness. Do they know how they typically react? Are they aware physical intimacy might make them fall in love?
- Health and safety. Should you do an STD test first?
- Needs and wants. Do they want sex, and if so, us it penetrative sex? Do they need a particular approach? Do they want to make your "first time" special? etc.
Not all of it has to be covered, but I'd argue most of it should. You don't have to do that in one conversation. You don't have to make it a dead serious conversation, you can totally make it playful. You should be at a level of intimacy where you can ask those questions and give those answers before actually proceeding. Plus, you should lead by example in communicating openly.
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These are great topics! I totally agree. Especially with a teenager, these would be great things to have an understanding of. If she were 29 instead of 19, you could expect her to have worked through this stuff more, and be more self-aware.

Past sexual traumas can definitely be a factor. In my experience, MOST women have been victims of sexual abuse or outright rape. By 19, I'd been stalked and assaulted by a stranger ("luckily" he only knocked me down in a hallway, before I was "saved" by my friend), and had a couple guys I was making out with for the first time forcefully demand I give them an orgasm (date rape). I had PTSD from these events for years.

My poor sister, as a freshman in college (age 18) was out drinking with friends one evening, and fell asleep/passed out in her dorm room. Her trusted male "good friend"/dorm mate came back into her room and raped her, and she was too drunk to fight him off. She ended up with an ectopic pregnancy (which could have been fatal).

Anyway... enough about me.
 
One more thing-- this is like a basic consent negotiation guideline, so if you don't do the previous, do this one.

The question "Would you like to have sex?" should NOT be asked while making out and followed up immediately. Ask the questions and get the answers while not too high on hormones (yes/no/not yet/I don't know). Only go there if it's a clear and consistent yes.
 
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Hello, everyone. Thanks for writing down all your wisdom. I still didn't bring anything up with her as my wife suggested that the mere act of discussing anything related to sex when she doesn't want to might seem coercieve.

Kailtyn doesn't let me touch her boobs or other private parts, not even over her t-shirt or skirt. On the other hand, she freely gropes me and plays with my cock (through my shorts), and if I try to touch her anywhere that is not her waist or face, she gently pushes my hands away.

I took @Tinwen 's suggestion a very seriously I guess. I don't want to talk to her while we were making out but there is always this sexual tension between us and I am trying to find a good time to talk. We currently have privacy only in my truck but the moment we are alone she starts making out.
 
Stevek said:
Hello, everyone. Thanks for writing down all your wisdom. I still didn't bring anything up with her, as my wife suggested that the mere act of discussing anything related to sex when she doesn't want to might seem coercive.
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Kaitlyn wants "sex" though. She's initiating makeout sessions. She's touching your cock, ffs. Don't think that "sex" is just Penis in Vagina Intercourse, especially for younger people/virgins. Deep kissing and touching private parts, getting very aroused, IS sex, or at least sexual.
Stevek said:
Kailtyn doesn't let me touch her boobs or other private parts, not even over her t-shirt or skirt. On the other hand, she freely gropes me and plays with my cock (through my shorts). If I try to touch her anywhere that is not her waist or face, she gently pushes my hands away.
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It sounds like she is curious about the male body, but wants to keep her own body "sacred." She probably has pregnancy/disease fears. Or she's just enjoying the "foreplay" type of action, so far. And that's fine.

That's why a few good discussions are necessary. You need to ask her sexual status. Is she a virgin or not? If she's had intercourse, has she had a recent STD test or not?
Stevek said:
I took @Tinwen 's suggestions very seriously, I guess. I don't want to talk to her while we were making out, but there is always this sexual tension between us. I am trying to find a good time to talk. We currently have privacy only in my truck, but the moment we are alone she starts making out.
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Well, you're the adult here. I know. Technically, she is an adult, but "barely legal," as they say. You can stop the making out, just as any woman could stop a man from kissing and groping her if she were not ready. (Or a woman could stop another woman from doing this, if they were bi or lesbians, or men if they were gay/bi.)

Explain your confusion about her desire to touch you, but not be touched. Ask the questions.

Are you embarrassed to talk about sex? Lots of people are, especially younger people, but it's common at all ages. People would rather "do it" than talk about it. Our culture still carries that prudery, especially if you've been raised in a more right-wing evangelical family/environment.

Since you're older and wiser, use your big head. Try to control Mr Eager down there. It will pay off in the long run.

Don't spend time sitting in the truck alone. Go out on a date. Go for a hike, say. Talk and ask the questions. Get clear answers. Then get in the truck, turn the key, and drive her home. Don't sit there being a victim to her explorations if you're not really sure it's what you want, on all levels.
 
Magdlyn said:
Are you embarrassed to talk about sex? Lots of people are, especially younger people, but it's common at all ages. People would rather "do it" than talk about it. Our culture still carries that prudery, especially if you've been raised in a more right-wing evangelical family/environment.
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This is definitely the case. I never had to talk about sex with any of my previous girfriends. We just knew when we wanted to have sex and the clothes came off. I grew up in a fairly conservative environment. So this is all a bit new for me. And it feels weird to talk about sex with someone whom you have not had sex with (I am not sure if I am explainging myself here). I can openly talk to my wife about sex but with Kaitlyn, it feels weird. She still feels like a stranger.

I will ask those questions while we are on a hike and I will ask her to slow down if she wants to distract me.
 
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