Struggling with jealousy, trust, polyamory in general

[Riley]

Edited for clarity:

I (25NB, bisexual) am struggling to cope with insecurity and jealousy in my relationship of two years right now.

(To keep this anonymous, I'll refer to my partner as Avery (23NB, bisexual) and the person they are dating as Henry (26, straight)

Avery and I are mutual primary partners but the non-monogamy (or polyamory) has always been poorly defined. It’s not my idea, but I’ve been willing to try it. Anyway, my partner has been going on dates with Henry, who I know from our climbing gym. Henry is way better at climbing than me, taller, more successful career-wise, has more hobbies in common with them, he’s more educated, and honestly more attractive. I know it’s bad to compare yourself, but it’s hard not to. For context, he’s a well known climber in our area. It’s also a relatively small town and an even smaller climbing community, so it’s understandable that they would meet someone I know.

That being said, I’ve previously told my partner that Henry made me feel insecure before they ever met because of a comment he made about my climbing. It wasn’t that deep, and I've talked to him since. I genuinely don't think he meant it to be mean, but I'm still a bit intimidated by him. Henry seems like a nice guy, so I should be happy for Avery. I expressed concern because of this when Henry asked Avery out. But Avery told me Henry wasn’t the same person I knew. I found out it was the same person pretty quickly, and when I told them, they shrugged it off and said I must have mispronounced Henry's name, so Avery thought I was talking about a different person. I've shown them videos of Henry climbing before, so it seems unlikely, but I guess it’s possible they genuinely didn’t recognize him from that.

I told Avery it made me feel insecure, but that he’s a nice guy, trying to be supportive anyway. So on their first date, Avery apparently decided to bring up the conversation that had made me uncomfortable. It was just a comment I took the wrong way, I guess, but it felt like a huge overstep, even though well intentioned, that they chose to share my insecurities so freely with someone they just met. It really hit me hard, and I’ve just been spiraling ever since.

It’s embarrassing for me, and I already felt a bit inferior to Henry. Now I hardly go to the gym anymore out of fear of having to interact with him, or see the two of them climbing together there. I feel like I’ve been in a constant state of panic since Avery started seeing Henry, and maybe that has nothing to do with who Henry is. It’s clearly weighing on Avery, and I feel bad.

Long story short, I am worried that Avery is increasingly withholding details about their dates. I know I'm not entitled to that information, but we live together, so I'd like to know if Avery will miss dinner, so I'm not waiting around for them. When I ask about the dates to try to be curious and see if they went well, I only get the facts of what activity they did, like going skiing, nothing emotional or sexual, or even about Henry being there at all. Avery has stopped telling me when, or sometimes if, they’re going on dates at all unless it comes up, like when I ask if they have free time or something. So it's always a shock to me, and I don’t have time to process before a date starts. Whenever they do this, I just end up spiraling.

I'm posting this because last night (Monday) Avery told me they were going on a trip to visit Henry for a few days starting today (Tuesday). I didn’t try to make Avery feel bad and just asked for more advanced warning in the future if they could, but Avery said it was a last minute decision they made today. Avery knows I’ve been struggling, so I feel like they were hesitant to tell me earlier and may have been planning it for a while. I don’t want to accuse Avery of lying, especially without evidence. I gave them a few different opportunities to tell me more, so I’m just going to chalk it up to my own anxiety and choose to trust them.

How do other folks deal with feeling left out of the loop though, without pushing away your partner?

TLDR:
This relationship started while I was gone to see my parents. I was on a break from classes over the holidays (I’m working full time and taking classes part time), and I was hoping to spend more time with them while I had time when I got back, but Avery spent most of that time going on dates with Henry. I get that NRE is a thing, but it stung a bit.

Now Avery has decided to go on this multi-night trip with Henry without telling me until the night before. I skipped finishing assignments to take the to the ER after I got off my 11-hour shift, because Avery had a medical issue come up. Avery said they decided to go on this trip today because they bought concert tickets. Avery also said they had originally planned on going for three days, and decided today to go for two instead, because of tension in our relationship, which I feel bad about again.

At the same time, the way Avery phrased it makes me feel like the trip was planned earlier and they're lying about the timeframe. I don’t want to push that issue. It feels like Avery has been hiding what they’re doing with Henry more and more, and I feel like every time I ask it makes it worse, so I guess I'm just jumping to a conclusion. At least they told me at all this time? I really don’t know how to cope or how to respond anymore though.

Unimportant: Avery and I didn’t make explicit plans today, but we usually go to an open mic night once a month, and that’s tonight, which is fine. But I had started writing again this month and told them I was excited to share some things I’d been working on. That added a little insult to injury, but it’s not the main problem. I just feel like I can’t depend on Avery anymore to show up for things. And whenever I bring up insecurities or things that hurt me, it doesn’t change anything, except elicit an apology or sympathy for the way I’m feeling, but never a behavior change. I’m wondering if that’s just kind of how polyamorous people are.

I tried going on a couple of dates a few weeks ago to take my mind off things, but I can’t even focus on someone else because I feel heartbroken. I just don’t really feel like I have the emotional capacity for this. Dating someone else doesn’t make up for this awful sinking feeling in my stomach. What’s the point of feeling bad all the time? I honestly am feeling like poly might just not be for me at this point. I’m not very experienced with it, but when Avery and I first got together a year and a half ago, they said they weren’t interested in monogamy, which I’m ok with on paper, but I’ve been cheated on and emotionally abused previously, so we’ve taken it slow in that regard.

Mostly, Avery has had a few one-night stands when I’m out of town. I went to see an old fling a couple times last summer when he visited from overseas. Avery is very supportive as a partner generally and affirming of the things they like about me and our relationship. They’re a great partner in so many ways. This is just the first time experiencing being sidelined in such a constant way. Just coping worked for me when it was a one-night stand, or something more casual, but it’s just like I’m in fight or flight mode all the time now. I can’t focus on work or school at all, and my body feels like it’s shutting down.

I’m drinking and smoking more when Avery goes out with Henry, which isn’t healthy. I find myself being cagey about it. I’m embarrassed and feel like Avery judges me for it. I went out for drinks the the other day when I found out they were out on a day trip with Henry and I didn’t know when they were coming home and had wound myself up all day about it. I don’t want them to think I’m hiding things from them, so I came clean today after lying about how much I drank. This was in the conversation in which Avery told me about this trip they’re going on. We also talked about some of these issues, but it just led to another "I'm glad you told me how you feel" response.

Today, when I told Avery that I lied about how much I drank, they said it really hurt them, which is fair, I guess. I also hadn’t told them initially that I got on PrEP a couple of weeks ago, because I worry about dating around and HIV, and they brought that up as well. I know it's bad that I lied, but both of these are caught up in a lot of shame and guilt and other emotions, and I had a hard time telling Avery initially. But I’m trying to be honest here to show that they’re dealing with a lot from me too. I know it can’t be easy to deal with someone who acts insecure, but I can’t keep bottling my emotions up. I don’t want to become dishonest to Avery just because I feel like they are hiding things from me.

I feel like I should go to therapy, but the only LGBT/poly-friendly therapist I could find in our town isn’t in-network for my insurance. I don’t really have friends I can talk to about polyamory in an open and unbiased way. I just need to be heard by someone. Maybe someone out there has worked through something like this before, and has advice or insight into dealing with it all. I’ve never made a post to a forum before, but dire times and all, I guess. I really want this relationship to function, and I need advice or, I don’t know, maybe just to be heard by someone.

 

[Magdlyn]

Hi, welcome to the forum. I am glad you posted. I hope it helped a bit to vent!

Mod hat on: At the end you mention seeking a LGBT/poly-friendly therapist. Would you mind clearing up genders? You use "they" for your partner, he for their new bf. I am wondering what pronoun you use, if you're gay, straight, pan or whatever.

Also, some people have trouble comprehending people's stories when no one has names. We suggest you choose nicknames for all the players. You're Riley. You might pick names for your partner, their new bf, and anyone else involved.

And, I'm sorry to be annoying, but some of your paragraphs are super long. Would you go and add more paragraph breaks while you're at it? You have 24 hours to edit.

Then we can get to offering feedback! I am sorry for what you're going through and for your distress.

 

[LaminarFlow]

Hey Riley, welcome.

I’m really struggling to cope with insecurity and jealousy in my relationship of two years right now.

Sorry you're going through this. It's tough. Have you and your partner done any research before opening up?

This is a primary relationship for both of us but the non-monogamy (or polyamory) has always been poorly defined. It’s not my idea, but I’ve been willing to try it.

Is this poly under duress? You DON'T have to do this if you don't want this.

Anyway, my partner has been going on dates with someone that I know from our climbing gym. He’s way better at climbing than me, taller, more successful career-wise, has more hobbies in common with them, he’s more educated, and honestly more attractive. I know it’s bad to compare yourself, but it’s hard not to. For context, he’s a well known climber in our area. It’s also a relatively small town and an even smaller climbing community, so it’s understandable that they would meet someone I know. That being said it’s someone who I’ve previously told my partner made me feel insecure because of some comment he made about my climbing. It wasn’t that deep, and Ive talked to him since. He seems like a nice guy, so I should be happy for my partner. Anyway they claimed it wasn’t the same person I knew when they told me about it, but turns out it was, and when I told them that they shrugged it off and said I mispronounced his name before. Ive showed them videos of this person climbing before, but I guess it’s possible they genuinely didn’t recognize him from that. I told them that it made me feel a little insecure, but that I think he’s a nice guy and tried to be supportive anyway

It's best to focus on what you have with your partner. Are you still going on dates/outings/holidays?

So on their first date my partner apparently decided to bring up the conversation that had made me uncomfortable. It was just a comment I took the wrong way i guess, but it felt like a huge overstep, even though well intentioned, that they chose to share my insecurities so freely with someone they just met.

That's not nice, and not for them to share and perhaps invoke a TMI-clause like: "Hey, I support you dating X, but don't share personal stuff" and they need to respect that.

It really hit me hard, and I’ve just been spiraling ever since. It’s embarrassing for me, and I already felt a bit inferior to this person, now I hardly go to the gym anymore out of fear of having to interact with him or see them climbing together there.

Do you have another place to get your exercise? Forest? Another gym? It's not fair they're overtaking the space, but better for your mental health.

I feel like I’ve been in a constant state of panic since they started seeing him, and maybe that has nothing to do with who he is. It’s clearly weighing on my partner.

Your partner could take step back and go slower. Do you feel displaced? Or generally struggling because your partner is seeing someone else and you're finding out this structure is not for you, and you want monogamy?

Long story short, I am worried that they’re increasingly withholding details about their dates other than like the facts of what they did beyond the preface of going skiing or something nothing emotional or about him and they’re also not telling me when or if they’re going on these dates the more it progresses.

Your partner doesn't have to share all the details about the progress of the other relationship. That's their stuff.

You and Primary Partner. Just for you.
Primary Partner and Climbing Guy. Just for them.

But not telling about going on dates when you live together is weird and unethical if you didn't agree on a DADT. Your partner might not want to tell because they see you're struggling. Nonetheless, not a supportive partner.

I don’t have time to process whenever they do this and just end up spiraling, and now they’ve told me last minute they’re going on a trip to visit him for a few days.

You could also just NOT agree with all this, if partner just does whatever they want anyway without consulting you. Why would you even want to have a partner like that?

I didn’t try to make them feel bad, and just asked for more advanced warning in the future if they could. But they said it was a last minute decision they made today

Is this behaviour going to continue? Are they generally a last-minute person when it comes to plans? (I am like that, as well.)

They know I’ve been struggling, so I feel like they were hesitant to tell me earlier and may have been planning it for a while.

Can you find out for certain?

I don’t want to accuse them of lying, especially without evidence. I have given them a few different opportunities to tell me more, so I’m just going to chalk it up to my own anxiety and choose to trust them. How do other folks deal with feeling left out of the loop though, without pushing away your partner?

I would focus on what you DO have with your partner. Plan something you and your partner can look forward to and stop comparing yourself with Climber Guy.

TLDR; This relationship started while I was gone to see my parents. I was on a break from classes over the holidays (I’m working full time and taking classes part time), and I was hoping to spend more time with them while I had time when I got back, but they spent most of that time going on dates with him. I get that NRE is a thing but it stung a bit. Especially because we live together and they just wouldn’t tell me they were going or when they were coming back.

This is a huge problem. You both need to work on your communication and boundaries. This is all awfully fast for someone who just started dating someone new since the holidays.

How about making a clear schedule with you and Climber Guy?

 

[LaminarFlow]

Now they decided to go on a multi-night trip with him without telling me until the night before. I skipped finishing assignments to take them to the ER after I got off my 11-hour shift, because they had a medical issue come up.

So basically you were there to pick up the slack from your partner while they go off on a trip with Climber Guy?

They said they decided to go today because they bought concert tickets but also said they had originally planned on going for three days and decided today to go for two instead because of tension in our relationship, which I feel bad about. At the same time the way they phrased it makes me feel like they planned the trip earlier and are lying about it. I don’t want to push that issue. it feels like they have been hiding what they’re doing with him more and more and I feel like every time I ask it makes it worse. But feeling blindsided by day trips or whole day long dates has been making it hard for me to process. At least they told me at all this time? I really don’t know how to cope or how to respond anymore though.

Personally, I have planned some concerts and trips on the same day or day before, even when they were sold out, so I wouldn't make any conclusions.

But it sounds to me you just don't trust your partner, or you're trying to find reasons to cope with something that is not for you.

Also we didn’t make explicit plans but we usually go to an open mic night once a month, and that’s tonight, which is fine but I had started writing again this month and told them I was excited to share some things I’d been working on this month.

Why is partner putting you on the back burner? Seems there is some serious displacement going on (due to NRE).

That added a little insult to injury, but it’s not the main problem. I just feel like I can’t depend on them anymore to show up for things and whenever I bring up insecurities or things that hurt me it doesn’t change anything except elicit an apology or sympathy for the way I’m feeling but never a behavior change. I’m wondering if that’s just kind of how polyamorous people are.

No, that's not how polyamorous people are. Just the ones that haven't done any research, don't bother to work on their hinge skills, or communicate with all their partners. Communication is key.

Are you maybe willing to travel a bit further to go to a poly-friendly therapist that's covered by insurance? Maybe also together?

I tried going on a couple of dates a few weeks ago to take my mind off things, but i can’t even focus on someone else because I feel heartbroken

That's not a good idea. You don't need to bring other people in this mess. It's not fair on them.

.I just don’t really feel like I have the emotional capacity for this. Dating someone else doesn’t make up for this awful sinking feeling in my stomach. What’s the point of feeling bad all the time?

You could just bow out and find a partner that treats you nicely.

I honestly am feeling like poly might just not be for me at this point.

That's perfectly fine. Bow out.

I’m not very experienced with it but when my partner and I first got together a year and a half ago they said they weren’t interested in monogamy

Great for them. Let them do that on their OWN. It's okay you find out you're not compatible now.

I’ve been cheated on and emotionally abused previously, so we’ve taken it slow in that regard.

You would want a partner that is considerate knowing this info.

Mostly they have had a few one stands when I’m out of town, and I went to see an old fling a couple times last summer when he visited from overseas.

That's casual ENM, not polyamory. Polyamory is about love, loyalty and commitment, and trying to do right by all partners as far as commitments go.

They’re very supportive as a partner generally and affirming of the things they like about me and our relationship. They’re a great partner in so many ways

Doesn't mean you're long-term compatible.

This is just the first time experiencing being sidelined in such a constant way. Just coping worked for me when it was a one night stand or something more casual, but it’s just like I’m in fight or flight mode all the time now. I can’t focus on work or school at all, and my body just feels like it’s shutting down. I’m drinking and smoking more when they go out which isn’t health and find myself being cagey about it, but I’m embarrassed and feel like they judge me for it. I went out for drinks the the other day when I found out they were out on a day trip and didn’t know when they were coming home and had wound myself up all day about it. I came clean today after lying about how much I drank when we were talking about a lot of these issues yesterday when they told me about this trip they’re going on. They said it really hurt them that I lied, which is fair I guess. I just knew I needed to come clean even if it made me look bad because I don’t want them to think I’m hiding things from them. I also hadn’t told them initially that I got on prep a couple weeks ago bc I worry about dating around and hiv. I know that sounds bad, but I’m trying to be honest here to show that they’re dealing with a lot from me too. I know it can’t be easy to deal with someone who is insecure, but if I can’t keep bottling my emotions up. I don’t want to become dishonest to them just because I feel like they’re hiding things from me.

Just bow out if they're not communicating. Why be with a partner you can't trust?

I feel like I should go to therapy, but the only lgbt/poly friendly therapist I could find in our town isn’t in-network for my insurance. I don’t really have friends I can talk to about polyamory in an open and unbiased way, and I just need to be heard by someone. Maybe someone out there has worked through something like this before and has advice or insight into dealing with it all I guess. I’ve never made a post to a forum before, but dire times and all I guess. I really want this relationship to function, and I need advice or I don’t know maybe just to be heard by someone.

Hope you'll be able to find a professional you can talk to. There are some links in the Golden Nuggets section.

 

[LaminarFlow]

To OP: I used Primary Partner and Climber Guy for names. Please change them to your liking if necessary.

 

[Riley]

Hi, welcome to the forum. I am glad you posted. I hope it helped a bit to vent!

Mod hat on: At the end you mention seeking a LGBT/poly-friendly therapist. Would you mind clearing up genders? You use "they" for your partner, he for their new bf. I am wondering what pronoun you use, if you're gay, straight, pan or whatever.

Also, some people have trouble comprehending people's stories when no one has names. We suggest you choose nicknames for all the players. You're Riley. You might pick names for your partner, their new bf, and anyone else involved.

And, I'm sorry to be annoying, but some of your paragraphs are super long. Would you go and add more paragraph breaks while you're at it? You have 24 hours to edit.

Then we can get to offering feedback! I am sorry for what you're going through and for your distress.

Thank you for the feedback. I was typing on my phone, but I will go edit now! I totally see how confusing it was now that I'm looking on my computer.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello Riley,

It sounds like you are having some trust issues with your partner. They are not telling you the whole truth, because they are afraid that if they did, they would have to deal with your jealousy, and they don't want that. Meanwhile, you are dealing with multiple problems, first of all because you do feel jealous and insecure, and secondly because you can't trust them. Even if they did tell you the truth, you would still have to deal with your jealousy, and that hurts.

Polyamorous people aren't always like that, in fact we strongly believe in telling the truth. Not that it always works out that way, some polyamorists are afraid that if they tell their partner the truth, their partner will torpedo what they are trying to do. To be honest, I think your partner struggles to trust you as well, for that reason. I am not saying there is an easy solution to this problem, I am just saying that it has two sides. Both of you are afraid to approach each other.

You may have something with someone else, but that doesn't change the fact that you need something with your partner. You need to feel loved and wanted by your partner, and you do not feel that, because your partner is focusing all their attention on this other guy. I don't blame you for feeling this way, of course you are going to feel this way, when your partner has a secret second life going with this other guy. I think you should tell them that you are hurting inside.

Please do not give up on poly, we are here to help you, it's not that your partner is doing things the right way, it's that there is hope that your partner will show you the same kind of love that they show for this other guy. Currently they are neglecting you, and that is not okay. You need to share with them what you need to feel okay about it, and maybe you feel like they would just reject your wants and your needs. This isn't how poly is supposed to go, for the record.

Don't give up on your own needs, it is okay for you to have needs too, you do not have to feel like you have to do everything just for your partner. Sure you don't have to feel like your partner gets to be with this other guy, just because he is a better climber than you. There is a lot to any relationship besides how good of a climber he is. You have value too, you are a good enough person to deserve fair treatment from your partner. Let them know that this is how you feel.

Sure you have your own hangups, and maybe you have been just a little bit dishonest because you were afraid you'd have to deal with them being hurt or angry, that is only human. You need to tell them that you only wanted to protect them from the consequences of their own actions. They want to have fun with this other person they've been seeing, but your feelings have something to do with it as well, and your partner has been putting that to the side. It's not fair to you.

Don't give up,
Kevin T.

 

[Riley]

Have you and your partner done any research before opening up?

Is this poly under duress? You DON'T have to do this if you don't want this.

It's best to focus on what you have with your partner. Are you still going on dates/outings/holidays?

That's not nice, and not for them to share and perhaps invoke a TMI-clause like: "Hey, I support you dating X, but don't share personal stuff" and they need to respect that.

Do you have another place to get your exercise? Forest? Another gym? It's not fair they're overtaking the space, but better for your mental health.

Your partner could take step back and go slower. Do you feel displaced? Or generally struggling because your partner is seeing someone else and you're finding out this structure is not for you, and you want monogamy?

Your partner doesn't have to share all the details about the progress of the other relationship. That's their stuff.

You and Primary Partner. Just for you.
Primary Partner and Climbing Guy. Just for them.

But not telling about going on dates when you live together is weird and unethical if you didn't agree on a DADT. Your partner might not want to tell because they see you're struggling. Nonetheless, not a supportive partner.

You could also just NOT agree with all this, if partner just does whatever they want anyway without consulting you. Why would you even want to have a partner like that?

Is this behaviour going to continue? Are they generally a last-minute person when it comes to plans? (I am like that, as well.)

Can you find out for certain?

I would focus on what you DO have with your partner. Plan something you and your partner can look forward to and stop comparing yourself with Climber Guy.

This is a huge problem. You both need to work on your communication and boundaries. This is all awfully fast for someone who just started dating someone new since the holidays.

How about making a clear schedule with you and Climber Guy?

Thank you for the thorough response. I really appreciate you.

I've tried doing some research. I'm listening to a podcast right now, and it's helped me deal with some of the learned behaviors that come with social conditioning. It's a slow process, but I am trying to learn. It feels like I’m the only one doing the work to think about the ethics of any of it, and issues that can arise and how to deal with them.

I don’t think this is poly under duress. I feel unsure at this point about how I feel about poly generally, as this is my only reference point, but I don’t feel coerced into it. I think I do need to figure out if it’s something I want in a committed relationship, but I think the distress feels more circumstantial.

I pressed Avery more about when the trip was planned, and they said it was planned way earlier, though they didn’t buy the tickets for a concert until Sunday. I think what is really making me feel bad is that I know it’s unethical to shut down or control Avery. But I think they show a lack of situational awareness to know when pursuing someone or the way they do it might hurt me or someone else. I feel like the times I’ve pursued anyone, I’ve taken a lot of time to talk it through and make sure Avery was doing ok, and would have been willing to put the brakes on if something was making them uncomfortable, or walk away if they saw red flags, or I felt it wasn’t someone who was open to polyamory or respectful of my other relationship. I feel like I don’t trust Avery because I haven’t felt that back.

I am focusing on Avery, and even now that they’re gone, I don’t feel hurt or threatened in our relationship. I miss Avery, but I feel hurt by the dishonesty and lack of empathy on their part. I am not going on dates currently. I see that this is not the best time for it, considering the other people involved, but I do wonder if part of the problem for me is that I’m jealous of Avery having the time to pursue other relationships, while I don’t. I don’t think it’s that, but it doesn’t help to only feel the negative consequences of polyamory and little of the joy.

Yes, I mean, I feel like TMI had to be installed after that, but I don’t like rules like that. I want some level of discretion to exist because I want openness and flexibility. I don’t want to say "You can’t do all of these things, because I don’t like them," and create new rules every time something upsets me. I don’t care if they talk about me, but that felt so self-explanatory as not the right thing to do in that situation. It makes me uncomfortable that I have to tell Avery that they need to disclose that we are in a relationship. They have not really done this previously in hookups and it feels super disrespectful to all other parties involved.

It is winter, so there are other places I could exercise, but there's nowhere within three hours of our town I can practice my sport. It’s been my only outlet outside of work for a while, so it kinda sucks. Honestly, I’m too stressed right now to even want to go, though. What really sucks is that the climbing community is also the only place I have friends here outside of work. I moved here a couple years ago, and Avery is from here and has a more extensive support network. I feel pretty isolated right now. Luckily Henry moved to a nearby city temporarily to set up a business, and commutes back and forth, so he’s not constantly at the gym.

I feel a little displaced, but I think I’m also struggling with the fact that I would have just liked Avery to not pursue Henry specifically, and didn’t feel like I could say no. I don’t want to sound petty, but I think my mistake was giving them the green light because I’m too passive. We don’t do vetoes, but I should have expressed more clearly that it made me uncomfortable, but now that can of worms is open.

Maybe it’s not for me, but I don’t feel like I’ve been given a level of care in polyamory with Avery that I could even figure that out. It has been healing in a lot of ways to feel supported and loved, despite discomfort, and without feeling like they’re going to leave me. This specific situation has brought out the worst in me, with a lot of those insecurities resurfacing. I just wish Avery would stop seeing Henry so we could recalibrate, but I feel like I can’t ask them to do that.

No, they don’t have to, but we have both discussed wanting that, not as a rule but as an encouragement to share. I get that. I didn’t clarify enough, but this post was already way too long. I understand I’m not entitled to that, but we, especially Avery, has expressed wanting to share that. I don’t need that exactly, but this is one of those things I do not like about the way some polyamorous people frame relationships.

If we’re going to say rules are bad and everything is a free-for-all, then communication is important, including about the relationships themselves. Otherwise it’s just DADT, which is absolutely not something I’m ok with. I think it’s a little naive to think that it’s ok to leave your other partners completely in the dark about how your other relationships are progressing. It’s just not the same thing as friendships, where that might be ok, to some extent. Emotions matter in a relationship, even in multiple relationships, and if they don’t matter and shouldn’t be shared, to me, that just shows a shallow level of intimacy.

It also especially matters to me because trust is so fragile in our relationship right now. Avery knows I’ve been cheated on and it would obviously make me feel that sense of someone sneaking around behind my back to progressively cut that off. I understand the reaction of walking on eggshells, but we’ve talked about how both of us feel happier in our own relationship and for each other exploring with more information about it. And from a practical standpoint, it most certainly matters if they’ve had sex if they’ve used protection, etc., from a safety perspective.

So anyway, we need to work on some things. And maybe you’re right. But I don’t want to end the relationship. It doesn’t feel like I have specific boundaries that are crossed. But I might want to ask if Avery would be open to monogamy, at least temporarily, until trust is rebuilt and actual work is done to show that we can actually do polyamory in an ethical and healthy way.

I don’t really know at this point. I still care about the relationship, but I do not know how to proceed. Maybe I should just show Avery this post (only joking). It’s not that I don’t trust Avery generally, but I don’t trust them to put in the work to do polyamory in a way that feels good for me right now.

I also think I made it seem like we aren’t doing things for our relationship in this post. We are. We have a trip planned for the beginning of March. We do a lot of things together. But I can’t keep up the cycle of stress and no productivity when Avery is with Henry and then spending all of my free time with them when they’re home.

Unfortunately, we also had plans to go get tattoos (don’t worry, not matching) from a visiting artist on Saturday, and I probably should cancel that now.

 

[Magdlyn]

I've tried doing some research. I'm listening to a podcast right now, and it's helped me deal with some of the learned behaviors that come with social conditioning. It's a slow process, but I am trying to learn. It feels like I’m the only one doing the work to think about the ethics of any of it, and issues that can arise and how to deal with them.

It was a little hard to understand which particular point of Laminar's you were responding to, but I am trying to understand. I think what you are going through are typical growing pains, and with more research and clarity about what kind of info, and how much, you need from Avery to feel secure, you'll be okay.

It's all right to start doing poly with training wheels on, so to speak.

I know it’s unethical to shut down or control Avery. But I think they show a lack of situational awareness to know when pursuing someone or the way they do it might hurt me or someone else. The times I’ve pursued anyone, I’ve taken a lot of time to talk it through and make sure Avery was doing ok, and would have been willing to put the brakes on if something was making them uncomfortable, or walk away if they saw red flags... I feel like I don’t trust Avery because I haven’t felt that back.

I was recently rereading how I was feeling when Pixi (my partner of 16 years) and I were first together. She didn't date others until we were about a year in to our relationship. She definitely made vague plans with others then, told me about plans last minute, spent the night twice (on her second and third dates with a guy), without giving me notice, etc. Finally by the fourth date, she got enough complaints from me, and her dating partner's OSO complained enough to him, that things got more regulated.

It is a delicate balance to figure out what is just enough info to share. Too much feels like an invasion of privacy. Not enough feels like DADT and is distancing. This balance will be slightly different for everyone.

What needs to be remembered is to be polite! Give notice about a date, especially a longer one, so your SO can make their own plans, babysitters can be arranged, finances are in order, etc. Ask each time you see a partner if safer sex practices were used (until you fully trust they do this as a matter of course).

I don’t feel hurt or threatened... I miss Avery, but I feel hurt by the dishonesty and lack of empathy on their part. I am not going on dates currently... I’m jealous of Avery having the time to pursue other relationships, while I don’t.. it doesn’t help to only feel the negative consequences of polyamory and little of the joy.

What you are describing is envy. You want to be having fun too! Some of the joy of climbing is taken from you because you compare yourself to Henry. This was your main outlet. You're missing the endorphins. I'd encourage you to go climb anyway, and try to stop competing. Just do your personal best. The point of climbing (or any hobby) is not to be "the best." If we had to be the best athlete (artist, musician, scientist, gamer) in the world to enjoy the hobby, no one would do it. Do your best, have fun, enjoy your improvement, your gym buddies, and the stress relief.

TMI had to be installed after that, but I don’t like rules like that. I want some level of discretion to exist. I don’t want to say "You can’t do all of these things, because I don’t like them," and create new rules every time... I don’t care if they talk about me, but that felt so self-explanatory as not the right thing to do in that situation.

It's not self-explanatory, as I mentioned above. It does need to be agreed upon. My bf Aries would rather tell me everything about his other date's lives, and even their sex, and I had to shut him down. And I don't want him telling his others everything about MY life or our sex either! Heaven forbid. Tell a little, so we feel close, but don't spill every damn bean in the can. Calibrate.

It makes me uncomfortable that I have to tell Avery that they need to disclose that we are in a relationship. They have not really done this previously in hookups...

We have discussed this before on the forum. Often if someone is into casual sex, one-night stands, the consensus was it's not necessary to reveal you have a committed partner at home. It's just a one-and-done quickie, after all. But if you're seeking actual polyamory, yes, you should tell new dating prospects asap, and put ENM on your dating profiles.

He commutes back and forth, so he’s not constantly at the gym.

You can go when he's out of town, and hopefully get used to him being there when he is there, as I said above, with a different mindset.

I would have just liked Avery to not pursue Henry specifically, and didn’t feel like I could say no. I don’t want to sound petty, but I think my mistake was giving them the green light because I’m too passive. We don’t do vetoes, but I should have expressed more clearly that it made me uncomfortable, but now that can of worms is open.

We can express discomfort gently, but Avery's dating life is THEIRS. As their partner, you have no control over who they choose. Unless the person seems like an actual abuser or criminal, you've got to let them choose partners as they will and learn their lessons. Vetoes only cause resentment. They usually backfire.

I don’t feel like I’ve been given a level of care in polyamory with Avery that I could even figure that out. It has been healing in a lot of ways to feel supported and loved, despite discomfort, and without feeling like they’re going to leave me. This specific situation has brought out the worst in me, with a lot of those insecurities resurfacing. I just wish Avery would stop seeing Henry so we could recalibrate, but I feel like I can’t ask them to do that.

You can wish that. But you can't stop it. The key is to learn workable coping skills until it becomes second nature. Decide what you need to feel loved, cared for, special and secure. Then ask Avery for those things. And remember, NRE makes people act crazy.

Read the "poly hell" article in the resources list.

trust is so fragile in our relationship right now. Avery knows I’ve been cheated on and it would obviously make me feel that sense of someone sneaking around behind my back to progressively cut that off. I understand the reaction of walking on eggshells, but we’ve talked about how both of us feel happier in our own relationship and for each other exploring with more information about it.

Past traumas are something one needs to deal with oneself. It's hard to not apply your past to your present partner, I know. You get triggered. Try to differentiate your past memories and hurts from what is actually going on in the present. Ask for reassurance, but don't be overly needy. (This can be hard to determine, I know. "Is it me? Is it them?")

And from a practical standpoint, it most certainly matters if they’ve had sex if they’ve used protection, etc., from a safety perspective.

Of course.

I might want to ask if Avery would be open to monogamy, at least temporarily, until trust is rebuilt and actual work is done to show that we can actually do polyamory in an ethical and healthy way.

You could ask Avery to slow down, but I wouldn't request "going back to monogamy" at this point. That might be resented in the midst of their NRE, and backfire.

I don’t really know at this point. I still care about the relationship, but I do not know how to proceed. Maybe I should just show Avery this post (only joking).

Why not take your last post, edit it a bit, and send it to Avery in an email? Some people do better laying things out in one bigger text, so you know you've been clear, and aren't stumbling over your words, or getting distracted by their responses or possible defensiveness.

Meanwhile, for actual conversations, look into the methods of Non-Violent Communication.

It’s not that I don’t trust Avery generally, but I don’t trust them to put in the work to do polyamory in a way that feels good for me right now.

I also think I made it seem like we aren’t doing things for our relationship in this post. We are. We have a trip planned for the beginning of March. We do a lot of things together. But I can’t keep up the cycle of stress and no productivity when Avery is with Henry, and then spending all of my free time with them when they’re home.

Yeah, that's not workable.

We had plans to go get tattoos on Saturday, and I probably should cancel that now.

Yeah, if Avery already made plans with you to do that, and "forgot," and made other plans with Henry, that's careless and just plain rude.

 

[Riley]

It was a little hard to understand which particular point of Laminar's you were responding to, but I am trying to understand. I think what you are going through are typical growing pains, and with more research and clarity about what kind of info, and how much, you need from Avery to feel secure, you'll be okay.

Ahhhh now I get how to respond bit by bit. I'm not very tech savvy, sorry!!!

It's all right to start doing poly with training wheels on, so to speak.

I was recently rereading how I was feeling when Pixi (my partner of 16 years) and I were first together. She didn't date others until we were about a year in to our relationship. She definitely made vague plans with others then, told me about plans last minute, spent the night twice (on her second and third dates with a guy), without giving me notice, etc. Finally by the fourth date, she got enough complaints from me, and her dating partner's OSO complained enough to him, that things got more regulated.

It is a delicate balance to figure out what is just enough info to share. Too much feels like an invasion of privacy. Not enough feels like DADT and is distancing. This balance will be slightly different for everyone.

Ok, thank you It's good to know it happens to others and can be worked through. I'm just overwhelmed rn.

What needs to be remembered is to be polite! Give notice about a date, especially a longer one, so your SO can make their own plans, babysitters can be arranged, finances are in order, etc. Ask each time you see a partner if safer sex practices were used (until you fully trust they do this as a matter of course).

What you are describing is envy. You want to be having fun too! Some of the joy of climbing is taken from you because you compare yourself to Henry. This was your main outlet. You're missing the endorphins. I'd encourage you to go climb anyway, and try to stop competing. Just do your personal best. The point of climbing (or any hobby) is not to be "the best." If we had to be the best athlete (artist, musician, scientist, gamer) in the world to enjoy the hobby, no one would do it. Do your best, have fun, enjoy your improvement, your gym buddies, and the stress relief.

Yeah, definitely a bit of envy going on. The more I talk this out the more I'm realizing I had a lot of things bottled up that are really cursory to what is happening right now. I appreciate being able to express it here and be heard without needing to spiral and rant to Avery about the things they can't control (ie envy, jealousy, etc).

It's not self-explanatory, as I mentioned above. It does need to be agreed upon. My bf Aries would rather tell me everything about his other date's lives, and even their sex, and I had to shut him down. And I don't want him telling his others everything about MY life or our sex either! Heaven forbid. Tell a little, so we feel close, but don't spill every damn bean in the can. Calibrate.

I will try to calibrate thank you. You're right. I don't mean the level of sharing in general should be self-explanatory. I even get the thought process in the situation I think. Again talking it out is helping a lot. (cough cough therapy needed but thank you all for being supportive). The more I talk about this the dumber it sounds, but Avery asked Henry about his thoughts on me and laid out how I felt slighted by what he said about me at worst to just feel better about themself but more likely to make sure this isn't someone who is going to be disrespectful to me. So I get it even, but yeah I didn't like it and I need to reflect on why and how it relates to insecurity. I think honestly I need to get over myself and talk to Henry eventually if Avery is ok with that, but that is obviously not a right-now problem. I need to work on myself first.

We have discussed this before on the forum. Often if someone is into casual sex, one-night stands, the consensus was it's not necessary to reveal you have a committed partner at home. It's just a one-and-done quickie, after all. But if you're seeking actual polyamory, yes, you should tell new dating prospects asap, and put ENM on your dating profiles.

Hmm that is an interesting take, and I've heard both sides, and originally agreed, but it resurfaced for me recently because of a joke Avery made recently using the word cuck toward me. It was a faux pas, and we had been drinking, and clearly it was in a series of kinda silly insults, but it made me think about that in a different light. I think there's levels of complexity though. I don't really think there's a right answer, and this thread isn't the right place for it I guess, but if it's just a hook-up at a club that's one thing, but if there is an opportunity, say you intentionally invite someone back to your place later or multiple nights, if we say we're doing polyamory as they have said they want, it feels like that should be held to the same standard as going on a dating app to casually date or even just hook up because there's ample opportunity to tell the other person. I mean, there's not really an answer anyway, though we can definitely agree that in a dating situation it would be unethical, but with casual sex it depends on how you feel about sex itself in terms of the relationship between physicality and intimacy or simply transactional and all about pleasure. I fall more on the side of intimacy being tied in with sex, so I'm a little inclined to want to share, but yeah I haven't made some rule about that or something. It's just how I feel personally, so I'll tread lightly, but maybe bring it up next time we can talk generallyabout our relationship as not to be confrontational.

You can go when he's out of town, and hopefully get used to him being there when he is there, as I said above, with a different mindset.

Yeah, you're right.

We can express discomfort gently, but Avery's dating life is THEIRS. As their partner, you have no control over who they choose. Unless the person seems like an actual abuser or criminal, you've got to let them choose partners as they will and learn their lessons. Vetoes only cause resentment. They usually backfire.

You can wish that. But you can't stop it. The key is to learn workable coping skills until it becomes second nature. Decide what you need to feel loved, cared for, special and secure. Then ask Avery for those things. And remember, NRE makes people act crazy.

Read the "poly hell" article in the resources list.

Yes, I get that it is their dating life. I just mean to say I wish I had been more clear upfront about how I felt, so it didn't feel like backpeddling if I were to bring up the discomfort with it again. And so they could choose to do what they want with that full knowledge. Totally right I can't make them choose or change it now, and it would backfire anyway, but I don't like this idea that it all happens in a void with no ramifications beyond your own dating life. I can think it is inconsiderate and wish they would stop without trying alter their behavior. I just needed to vent somewhere about it so I don't try to torpedo their relationship.

Past traumas are something one needs to deal with oneself. It's hard to not apply your past to your present partner, I know. You get triggered. Try to differentiate your past memories and hurts from what is actually going on in the present. Ask for reassurance, but don't be overly needy. (This can be hard to determine, I know. "Is it me? Is it them?")

Yeah one hundred percent. It's just triggering me, and bringing out the worst in my reactions, jumping to the worst case scenario conclusions that aren't real. What is real is a lack of communication.

Of course.

You could ask Avery to slow down, but I wouldn't request "going back to monogamy" at this point. That might be resented in the midst of their NRE, and backfire.

Yeah I realized that was dumb after I said it.

Why not take your last post, edit it a bit, and send it to Avery in an email? Some people do better laying things out in one bigger text, so you know you've been clear, and aren't stumbling over your words, or getting distracted by their responses or possible defensiveness.

Maybe. That might actually help. I'll try that when I get all my other work done. If nothing else it might help me organize my thoguht for an actual conversation. I don't want to like have a big blow out over something relatively small, but I need to address things now or I'm going to lose my freaking mind.

Meanwhile, for actual conversations, look into the methods of Non-Violent Communication.

Okay

Yeah, that's not workable.

Poly should make it easier to keep Avery entertained while I get my shit done! Get Henry in here doing the laundry and helping me with stats and we're golden. Put that comp sci degree to work. lmao jkjk

Yeah, if Avery already made plans with you to do that, and "forgot," and made other plans with Henry, that's careless and just plain rude.

No no no. They'll be back before then I think. I just mean maybe getting a tattoo together is a bad idea right now. You know, if things go south.