Struggling with poly/hotwife feelings

An update: I have spent some time on Fetlife. My wife and I have had many eye-opening and sober conversations. We have completely ended things w this guy, which was very upsetting for her. I felt it was necessary for the health of our relationship. We have discovered that while she did try this for me, she does live in the moment and was basically in some type of poly situation in her own mind. I don't think she fully calls it that, but she operates that way and has acknowledged that she will always grasp for the full emotional connection, even when the relationship is sexual.

I have explained that is special to me and I regard emotions and that connection as very sacred. I don't enjoy that stuff which is why I don't consider myself poly really. So if I want to play in this hotwife thing I have to decide going forward if I'm OK opening up my wife emotionally in this way. Because if I do continue I can't ask her to hold back.

Is Opening Up the best book on this topic? I see that recommended, but I didn't know if there are others. I want to do more research or study before I even consider anything else right now.
 
I want to do more research or study before I even consider anything else right now
This is a great idea. And good on you for taking a measured approach to what sounds like a really stressful and difficult situation.

I just saw this post with a list of books about polyamory: Jun 24, 2023

I've seen a lot of those frequently recommended; Opening Up seems to be a recommended "first read" from a lot of people.

I also highly recommend Lola Phoenix's Non-Monogamy Help blog and podcast.

But here's another short read (it's a Reddit post) that's worth consideration: Dear Monogamous people, you Do Not have to give Polyamory a try
 
An update: I have spent some time on Fetlife. My wife and I have had many eye-opening and sober conversations. We have completely ended things w this guy, which was very upsetting for her. I felt it was necessary for the health of our relationship.
You still seem to be at odds. You say "we ended things," but she is upset. You said "I" felt it was necessary. Does she feel it was unnecessary? Is she now resentful? Has your relationship had a ding? Have your intimate moments (sexual and not) gotten less fulfilling or decreased in quantity?
We have discovered that while she did try this for me, she does live in the moment and was basically in some type of poly situation in her own mind. I don't think she fully calls it that, but she operates that way and has acknowledged that she will always grasp for the full emotional connection, even when the relationship is sexual.

I have explained that this is special to me and I regard emotions and that connection as very sacred. I don't enjoy that stuff, which is why I don't consider myself poly really. So if I want to play in this hotwife thing I have to decide going forward if I'm OK opening up my wife emotionally in this way.
You aren't opening up your wife emotionally. (You don't own her and tell her what to do, or not do. Men don't own women anymore, at least in Western culture.) She is the one that opens up emotionally. That's how she is. That's how she loves. She is demisexual. She doesn't want to have sex with someone else unless she has feelings for them. This is quite common. It sounds to me that she isn't right for "hotwifing," in the way you want to do it, since you want it to be only casual sex, and she can't do that. For her, it's poly or nothing. You won't get to fulfill YOUR fantasy of her having casual sex with others. She's not on board with that style.
Because if I do continue, I can't ask her to hold back.

Is Opening Up the best book on this topic? I see that recommended, but I didn't know if there are others. I want to do more research or study before I even consider anything else right now.
Yes, it's the most comprehensive. It is from 2008 though, so there is a bit of an issue in places with race and gender (gay stuff). But that doesn't really affect the generally good information.

I mentioned other books in my previous post. If you go to Amazon to find Opening Up, you'll see similar books recommended too.

I suggest you read more than one book over the next year, to get a well-rounded idea of what you're trying to get into. Your reading (and your wife's reading, hopefully) will give you a basis of reality on how to construct an open r'ship. Opening Up is not just about polyamory. It covers more casual, sex-based r'ships, as well (like swinging).

Another interesting helpful book is Sex at Dawn: how we mate and why we stray. It covers the history of how humans relate sexually (going back hundreds of thousands of years), and proposes that we are all wired to be promiscuous and that monogamy is a very late concept that doesn't jive with how we were made to relate. It's not a how-to book like the others, but more of an anthropological study written for laypeople.

I hope the discussions at Fetlife are helping.

Again, try to remember you don't own your wife. She decides how to share her body and emotions. She knows what she is comfortable with. You and she are autonomous entities, with your own desires, needs, and ways of operating. You have to learn to compromise if you're going to succeed.

All that said, I feel better that she's not trying to keep talking and sharing nudes with that cheater guy. Hopefully in the future, she'll find more appropriate lovers.
 
You still seem to be at odds. You say "we ended things," but she is upset. You said "I" felt it was necessary. Does she feel it was unnecessary? Is she now resentful? Has your relationship had a ding? Have your intimate moments (sexual and not) gotten less fulfilling or decreased in quantity?

You aren't opening up your wife emotionally. (You don't own her and tell her what to do, or not do. Men don't own women anymore, at least in Western culture.) She is the one that opens up emotionally. That's how she is. That's how she loves. She is demisexual. She doesn't want to have sex with someone else unless she has feelings for them. This is quite common. It sounds to me that she isn't right for "hotwifing," in the way you want to do it, since you want it to be only casual sex, and she can't do that. For her, it's poly or nothing. You won't get to fulfill YOUR fantasy of her having casual sex with others. She's not on board with that style.

Yes, it's the most comprehensive. It is from 2008 though, so there is a bit of an issue in places with race and gender (gay stuff). But that doesn't really affect the generally good information.

I mentioned other books in my previous post. If you go to Amazon to find Opening Up, you'll see similar books recommended too.

I suggest you read more than one book over the next year, to get a well-rounded idea of what you're trying to get into. Your reading (and your wife's reading, hopefully) will give you a basis of reality on how to construct an open r'ship. Opening Up is not just about polyamory. It covers more casual, sex-based r'ships, as well (like swinging).

Another interesting helpful book is Sex at Dawn: how we mate and why we stray. It covers the history of how humans relate sexually (going back hundreds of thousands of years), and proposes that we are all wired to be promiscuous and that monogamy is a very late concept that doesn't jive with how we were made to relate. It's not a how-to book like the others, but more of an anthropological study written for laypeople.

I hope the discussions at Fetlife are helping.

Again, try to remember you don't own your wife. She decides how to share her body and emotions. She knows what she is comfortable with. You and she are autonomous entities, with your own desires, needs, and ways of operating. You have to learn to compromise if you're going to succeed.

All that said, I feel better that she's not trying to keep talking and sharing nudes with that cheater guy. Hopefully in the future, she'll find more appropriate lovers.
I appreciate all your feedback. You're right and I'm sure I need to change my mindset. I understand i don't own her body and have learned a lot about her through this process. We are in a good place and both agree if needed we can walk away from these alternative lifestyles and our relationships are more important. She is probably upset w the fact that she thinks this guy is great and would of rather I allowed it to continue. There is a large part of her that thinks all my issues come from a place of insecurity. While I know I have some insecurities to work through I don't think I would have responded the same if we had an experienced bull in the lifestyle. Bit also maybe not worth the risk. We do have a lot to sort through.
 
I appreciate all your feedback. You're right and I'm sure I need to change my mindset. I understand i don't own her body and have learned a lot about her through this process. We are in a good place and both agree if needed we can walk away from these alternative lifestyles and our relationships are more important. She is probably upset w the fact that she thinks this guy is great and would of rather I allowed it to continue.
Again, "allowed" is a word that makes it sound like you're in authority over her. Open relationships between equals depend on negotiation and consent. If she had not consented to your request to end it with cheater guy, what would you have done? Your boundary for yourself is: "I will not remain in relationship with you if you date cheaters. That doesn't feel comfortable to me. I will walk away." Then she does with that what she will on her side.
There is a large part of her that thinks all my issues come from a place of insecurity. While I know I have some insecurities to work through, I don't think I would have responded the same if we
She
had had a bull experienced in the lifestyle. But also maybe it was not worth the risk. We do have a lot to sort through.
Yeah. It's not great to go: "All the problems are because of your insecurities." She chose to date a cheater (and even seemed to get off on it, to a degree.) She can take responsibility for her own actions. You take responsibility for your feelings and actions too. This is what good self-awareness is all about. This is how you two can come to a compromise over how to continue in an open relationship.

You can look deeply inside yourself and ask yourself if you really want to be a cuckold, or if it's turned out to actually feel bad, not good, like the fantasies led you to believe it would be. Maybe you need to do work around fear of loss, which leads to jealousy. All of her dates will be real men with minds of their own, not fantasy figures that do whatever your imagination tells them to do.
 
Again, "allowed" is a word that makes it sound like you're in authority over her. Open relationships between equals depend on negotiation and consent. If she had not consented to your request to end it with cheater guy, what would you have done? Your boundary for yourself is: "I will not remain in relationship with you if you date cheaters. That doesn't feel comfortable to me. I will walk away." Then she does with that what she will on her side.

She

Yeah. It's not great to go: "All the problems are because of your insecurities." She chose to date a cheater (and even seemed to get off on it, to a degree.) She can take responsibility for her own actions. You take responsibility for your feelings and actions too. This is what good self-awareness is all about. This is how you two can come to a compromise over how to continue in an open relationship.

You can look deeply inside yourself and ask yourself if you really want to be a cuckold, or if it's turned out to actually feel bad, not good, like the fantasies led you to believe it would be. Maybe you need to do work around fear of loss, which leads to jealousy. All of her dates will be real men with minds of their own, not fantasy figures that do whatever your imagination tells them to do.
yeah I think my wording is just bad but thats not my intention. I think about the emotional aspect as being partially responsible since I initiated all of this and she is emotionally opening herself up to these men due to the sitaution I asked for. if we go back to how we were before I dont see her initially random emotional relationships with other men. I totally understand she could of refused to stop contact and I was worried about that with how deep she seemed to be in with him. and that point I would of had to make a decision. I think we are both scared to move forward, her thinking im going to be insecure and shut down any emotional connection, and me worried about her getting carried away. I dont want her to just be some senseless fucking machine for a bull I understand that and the connection how she is.

In the meantime she has initiated an alternative that she prefers. She does like the idea of being shared even just sexually and the attention she gets from it. She doesnt have any direct contact but likes the idea of me sharing her content with guys and then showing her what they are saying. its some kind of praise kink and boosts her confidence.

I do concur she is probably demi sexual and much more emotional in these situations than I expected. She has still not expressed any desire to go "poly" and says she still enjoys the sexual element and what that brings but acknowledges that she does get more out of the emotional than the sexual even though she enjoys both. I dont know if you would call that poly or not.
 
Yeah, I think my wording is just bad, but that's not my intention.
Changing your wording is key though. It will help you let go of that "ownership" mindset and see her as more of an individual who herself chooses to be in relationship with you, and with others. She is sharing herself, her emotions, her body. You are NOT sharing her, like she is your meal, that you paid for, and you're offering a few bites to another guy. The only way that would be true would be if you and she were in an agreed-upon consensual Master/slave kink situation.
I think about the emotional aspect as being partially responsible since I initiated all of this and she is emotionally opening herself up to these men due to the situation I asked for. If we go back to how we were before, I don't see her initiating random emotional relationships with other men. I totally understand she could have refused to stop contact and I was worried about that, with how deep she seemed to be in with him. At that point I would have had to make a decision. I think we are both scared to move forward. She is thinking I'm going to be insecure and shut down any emotional connection, and I'm worried about her getting carried away. I don't want her to just be some senseless fucking machine for a bull. I understand that and [her need for] connection is how she is.

In the meantime, she has initiated an alternative that she prefers. She does like the idea of being shared...
Sharing herself
... even just sexually, and the attention she gets from it. She doesn't have any direct contact, but likes the idea of me sharing her content with guys and then showing her what they are saying. its some kind of praise kink and boosts her confidence.
Her content? You mean she wants you to go online and show other guys pix or videos of her, and ask for their opinions on her body, her looks? Does she WANT to think of herself as your property? If so, y'all need to look into the dynamics of an "owner/possession" dynamic and agree upon how far that goes. Again, you can learn a ton on Fetlife about this. If you're her Master or Owner, you would have the responsibility to seek out appropriate men, or vet her choices, to make sure those men please you in their intentions, and not just her. However, she can't be made to promise to fuck senselessly any men you find unthreatening (unless you also agree upon that, but I don't think her kink goes that far).

Many men on Fetlife love to look at nudes. Does she have an account there? She can open one and share all the nudes she wants, either openly or privately. She can caption the pix, saying something like, "I'm a hotwife and my husband wants me to post these and get your opinions on how I look." She'll get plenty of responses, I bet.
I do concur she is probably demisexual and much more emotional in these situations than I expected. She has still not expressed any desire to go "poly" and says she still enjoys the sexual element and what that brings, but acknowledges that she does get more out of the emotional than the sexual aspect, even though she enjoys both. I don't know if you would call that poly, or not.
Well, some people are uncomfortable with the term "polyamory," even if that is actually what they are doing. There is no need to force the term down her throat. But try to keep the concept of having feelings, even love (beyond just lust) for more than one person at once, in your mind and learn to become comfortable with her having those feelings. Accept it when she trusts you enough to share her feelings about it with you. Give her a safe space.

However, she doesn't need to tell you in excruciating detail just what she feels about this or that guy. It's understandable you don't want TMI.

It's a growth process, an unfolding. It seems like neither of you expected this, so it's going to be a rollercoaster until you both understand it and learn how to deal with it and it becomes the new norm.
 
Changing your wording is key though. It will help you let go of that "ownership" mindset and see her as more of an individual who herself chooses to be in relationship with you, and with others. She is sharing herself, her emotions, her body. You are NOT sharing her, like she is your meal, that you paid for, and you're offering a few bites to another guy. The only way that would be true would be if you and she were in an agreed-upon consensual Master/slave kink situation.

Sharing herself

Her content? You mean she wants you to go online and show other guys pix or videos of her, and ask for their opinions on her body, her looks? Does she WANT to think of herself as your property? If so, y'all need to look into the dynamics of an "owner/possession" dynamic and agree upon how far that goes. Again, you can learn a ton on Fetlife about this. If you're her Master or Owner, you would have the responsibility to seek out appropriate men, or vet her choices, to make sure those men please you in their intentions, and not just her. However, she can't be made to promise to fuck senselessly any men you find unthreatening (unless you also agree upon that, but I don't think her kink goes that far).

Many men on Fetlife love to look at nudes. Does she have an account there? She can open one and share all the nudes she wants, either openly or privately. She can caption the pix, saying something like, "I'm a hotwife and my husband wants me to post these and get your opinions on how I look." She'll get plenty of responses, I bet.

Well, some people are uncomfortable with the term "polyamory," even if that is actually what they are doing. There is no need to force the term down her throat. But try to keep the concept of having feelings, even love (beyond just lust) for more than one person at once, in your mind and learn to become comfortable with her having those feelings. Accept it when she trusts you enough to share her feelings about it with you. Give her a safe space.

However, she doesn't need to tell you in excruciating detail just what she feels about this or that guy. It's understandable you don't want TMI.

It's a growth process, an unfolding. It seems like neither of you expected this, so it's going to be a rollercoaster until you both understand it and learn how to deal with it and it becomes the new norm.
You are rght i will work on the wording and it will help w the mindset

but ive talked to her about the sharing of pics. obvously the bulls that she has she likes to show them and make them happy but she had a connection to them. but she said she wouldnt have an interest in making her own account and just sharing pics. she does like being submissive to me sexually in a lot of ways and we have a lot of sexual play around a daddy/princess dom/sub thing and she loves to be dominated so I think there is an aspect to that there in the sexual part of our relationship. this has probably gotten messy when we have evolved this to the actual cuckold part due to her demi-sexuality and needing the deep emotional connection.

so the long break from what we were doing seems like the best thing while we figure out whats next. I know us meeting w a sex therapist would probably be the next best thing for us.
 
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