The Best Life Yet

Busy. The date last night went well. I like a new boy. I shall call him Jasper, when I get around to really blogging again.

I woke up yesterday morning having kicked Beckett to the curb in my heart. I was surprised to find only a stony eyerolliness in myself when I saw all of his posts yesterday, so I took him off all my "see first" lists. Apparently Pandora sealed him back in her box while I slept Sunday night. He hasn't texted, so it is just as well. Neither have I.
 
Quiet Christmas at home with Rider. I just caught up on reading everyone's blogs for the first time since I stopped regularly posting. If I have some time tomorrow, I may try to post a "real" update. A lot has been happening—some good, some bad, some mellow, some intense...
 
I have this entire week off, as well as next Monday, so I finally have time to write—and also to do a bunch of other stuff I've been meaning to do. Rider and I are going to work on our album of the songs we've written just as a two-piece. I'm going to make a bunch more political calls that I haven't gotten around to yet.

So, poly. There is a lot going on.

Things are over with Beckett. I still sent him the present I made him because it was two tiny custom sculptures of his pets and, really, what else was I going to do with them? He had not texted me until he received them—nothing at all for a week—and when he did text me about receiving them and about how much his sister was squeeing over them, I was warm and cordial but not very interactive. I had the bitter thought "yeah, and I would have kept making you cool shit forever if you weren't such a douche so much of the time."

I have a switch, and his lack of response to the visit message flipped it—kinda funny, because it happened over the course of 24 hours: I messaged him, he saw it, he didn't write anything back immediately, I grieved it for that day, and when I woke up the next day, my heart was stony about it. Hypothetically, we are still friends, but I am not going to take any special care to stay in touch. We still like each other's FB and IG stuff, like ya do, but it is a fucking relief to no longer be in the mile-long line of girls complimenting him in the comments of every post. I *know* he felt something real for me that he didn't for them, but I refuse to be made a fool for the chance that something would come of it.

Rider has continued to see the new girl, Hannah. They have had three dates now and made out at her house. She is from OKC and seems super interested in kitchen-table poly. She's just turned 29 since he's been seeing her. When he first met her, she had a long-term "primary" male partner of four years who she was beginning to have cohabitation talks with, and a less-serious girlfriend. A couple weeks into Rider's dating her, her primary dumped her out of the blue, citing that he didn't actually want to build a life with her after all.

This made me a bit nervous, just because historically it has seemed like many people I've known who are going through a breakup are more a) volatile and b) attention hungry than they otherwise might have been in a stable state of single or partnered. But so far so good with her, it seems. She seems satisfied with a once-a-week clip of dating Rider—no drama or weirdness to speak of.

I have coffee scheduled with her on Wednesday afternoon because she has expressed interest in meeting me, and also because Rider and I have discussed wanting to meet each other's partners just for a bit of outside perspective before sex happens and intensifies things. And I think he is really looking forward to moving along to that stage soon.

I'm a bit nervous about meeting her because I'm not the world's most peopley person and, even though Rider keeps assuring me that she's the kind of person I'll make fast friends with, I do worry about conversation drying up if the only thing we have in common might be that we both want to sleep with the same dude. Still, I shall persevere. The plan is that she and I have coffee and pick each other's brains about poly, and then when Rider gets off work, I will hand her off to him for their fourth date.

And then...I'll head out on my own date! It will be my second with Jasper. I gotta say, I am really liking this guy. Out of fucking nowhere. It's like...I had just reached the absolute end of my rope and was choking, feeling like I could see no light at the end of the tunnel for me and poly since I never like anyone, and literally AS I was trying to prove that point to Rider, Jasper popped up.

(continued...)
 
(...continued from previous)

I haven't talked much about Jasper yet, other than to say he exists, so I guess I will do that now.

He's turning 30 in a couple of weeks and is originally from the East Coast. He is ridiculously good looking. The thought that I had when I met him in the coffee shop for our first date was "oh, this is someone I would have noticed even if I was NOT here to meet him for a date!"

Physically, he is maybe slightly taller than average, beanpole skinny (which is kinda my thing), and interestingly dressed. He has large melty-brown eyes without a hint of cynicism in them, a sensuous mouth with perfect teeth, and hair that is basically what my hair would be if I kept it natural: straight, fine-ish, and medium-to-dark brown.

He lives nearby—only about two miles from me, which in a city this large is remarkable. He loves animals and has a really cute cat, is an extremely talented artist who has been actually working as an artist for a long time, is totally into nerdy fantasy stuff (another huge plus in my book), and seems really sweet and smart. Our intellectual strengths may lie in different areas, but he is totally neither conceited about his prowess in the areas he excels, nor too proud to ask me what a word means if I toss out vocabulary he doesn't know.

He is currently single, and his profile had said he was looking for single women, but we were a 99% match, which usually suggests poly leanings in there somewhere. My first message to him had been merely to ask if he were poly-friendly, and he said yes.

His poly backstory is that he was actually raised around poly people (I don't know details yet) and has had two poly relationships before but neither were good experiences. The first one he felt kind of coerced into when he was too young to handle it. The second one was a mutual decision with his last long-term partner. He says he'd been platonic friends with her for seven years before they'd dated, then were together for five years. They'd both decided they wanted to open the relationship, but then once they did, she'd treated him very poorly: breaking all kinds of agreements they'd settled on, gaslighting him, and generally being emotionally abusive to him. So that ended.

And now, he is poly-friendly but also poly-wary. He says that he doesn't really have any idea what he wants out of a relationship—that he doesn't feel stagnant in monogamous situations, so he doesn't REQUIRE poly, but he does also know that he likes the idea of variety and getting close to people on whatever level makes sense. And since both of his poly experiences so far have been so negative, he's not sure that it's a model that works for him.

I told him it's perfectly fine if he's still figuring out what he wants in a relationship—I'm down to keep hanging out while he works on that. I certainly don't have any expectations of anything going a particular way. I'm just happy to have had a good date where there was actual chemistry. And also super happy that he texts back regularly, fairly quickly, and with an air of excitement to hear from me.

And, honestly (though I didn't tell him this because I really don't want to get into it, at least not yet), I am also kind of poly-wary, despite having been actually in a poly relationship for nearly three years. Like, I have so much trouble ever being completely comfortable, and I'm always half-prepared for the next terrible thing to come along and slice my guts open. So I get it. Maybe it will actually be useful for me to date someone who understands the wariness and the fear, since Rider never seems to.

And, speaking of understanding, we both established right out of the gate during the messaging stage that neither one of us usually likes people. We joked about how it would be impossible to be disappointed, then, if we go into it knowing that we probably WOULDN'T like each other, since neither of us ever like anyone. :cool:

Our date was actually kinda unconventional. I mean, it started conventionally, in a coffee shop in his neighborhood. But we didn't realize the place closed at 9:00 and we weren't ready to be done yet. The bar across the street had a crazy line that suggested a special event, so we didn't want to go there. Instead we went back to his place and played with his cat and chatted. Then he had an errand to run, so we walked and did that, and then went back to his place again. Errands and going inside someone's house are not usual first-date activities. But it felt right, so I went with it.

Neither of us was pushing any kind of physical agenda, but I did notice that both of our body language loosened up as the evening wore on. I found my eyes dropping to the little bit of chest hair visible at the top of his shirt, to the tiny triangle of flesh that appeared between his suspender, his shirt-edge, and his pants, when he shifted position on the couch. I found my mind wandering to what it would be like to kiss him and feel those perfect teeth on my lips. OH, THIS IS WHAT SEXUAL ATTRACTION TO SOMEONE NEW IS LIKE! :p

Eventually, it got late and I didn't want to stay up too far past my bedtime, so I told him I had to go. As I stood up and gathered my jacket and bag, he got close to me and asked for consent to kiss me. I consented and we kissed, for kind of a while, standing there in the center of his apartment. He takes a tack of deliberate hesitation and pausing at every crossroads that was really pleasant for me. Still, mostly I get too in my head the first time I kiss someone to really feel that sensual abandon that comes later, but it was very, very pleasant all the same.

He tried to get me to stay longer, and this was the only moment when I felt uncertainty and my hackles raised—what if all the sweetness and the seeming to be similar in outlook to me was a clever trap to get me into bed on the first date? But he easily took no for an answer, and when I told him I generally move glacially slow in that way, he said that was fine. And he texted me later telling me he had a great time. And we've been messaging ever since.

He actually flew back east for the holidays the very next day, and has been there since. But we'll see each other again on Wednesday.

It took me till the following afternoon to process my feelings and realize I really like him. Suddenly, looking back on the kissing made my heart race—a delayed response, but a welcome one. I am actually really looking forward to kissing him again!

However, on the homefront, things have not been nearly as smooth.

(continued...)
 
Last edited:
(...continued from previous)

I got back from my date around midnight, right around when Rider and I would usually be going to sleep. I had messaged him a while earlier letting him know I'd be coming home soonish. He was stoned and just watching wrestling. I'd stayed out a bit longer than I'd expected, in part because of the kissing; my original aim had been to be home around 11:30. I'd stayed up multiple nights in a row past my bedtime, actually, for unrelated reasons, and I was just totally beat.

As we were getting ready for bed, I mentioned to Rider that I was a) too tired for sex, and b) absolutely going to need to go to bed on time the following night. So I really hoped we could have sex tomorrow night, but if we were going to, he'd have to be home around 11:00 or so, so that we could have some reconnection time and then sex and then sleep before it got too late. He had a date with Hannah scheduled that following night, and he immediately bristled, accusing me basically of threatening to withhold sex if he weren't home by a curfew time. It was completely bizarre and completely unlike him.

I tried to explain to him that I have my own needs, and sleep is one of them, and I had already stretched myself too thin that week on that front. I did not think it unreasonable that, if he indeed wanted to have sex with me, he be available for that at a time that did not disrupt my plans of sleeping. Also, since he'd already told me he planned to be in Hannah's neighborhood by 6:00ish, even given that it'd take him an hour to get home, that's still a four-hour date, so it's not like he's going there and turning around and coming right back.

If I want sex with him, and he wants sex with me, he's gonna have to get back at a time when I'm still awake. It's an offer with an expiration date, not a carrot and stick to beat him with.

One of my least favorite things that Rider does is that once in a blue moon he will make this really uncharitable assumption that I am trying to manipulate him in some way. I don't know if this is because previous partners have been manipulative or what, but it really hurts my feelings when he does it. So then we ended up getting into this whole huge argument and were up until nearly 2:00—losing sleep arguing over something that came up because I wanted more sleep. :rolleyes:

He finally said that maybe he was just being paranoid because of the pot, and that it actually does make sense that I'd want to have reconnection time after two consecutive nights of dates with others—now that he thought about it, he thinks that that would be nice too. We made up and went to sleep.

He did end up making it home in time the next night, and we were just about to have sex—naked and talking sexy—when things went wrong again. Basically, I was telling him how much I wanted him since it had been a few days. I was telling him how I'd been thinking sexy thoughts about him all day. And he interjected something about how wound up we probably both were from making out with other people.

::record scratch::

No.

I corrected him and told him that I hadn't been wound up while kissing Jasper—that it takes me a minute to settle into that with new people most of the time. And when he told me he HAD been really turned on while kissing Hannah I was just like why the fuck are you bringing up other people anyway right now when we are about to have sex?! Literally the least sexy thing I could think of was that the sexual energy I was feeling from him was actually sourced from his interaction with someone else and he was just planning to release it into me like I'm a sex doll or something.

All the air wilted out of my sexual balloon. I did manage to overcome it and get to a point where I again wanted to fuck, but again, it was almost two in the morning. So much for that sleep I wanted, ugh.

The next day, he apologized and said that, looking back, that was probably really poor timing. (Ya think?) But he was genuinely surprised that I was actively turned off by this. He said he is just happy whenever I have sexual energy I can take out on him, and it doesn't matter where it comes from. But HE has a kink about being used as an object or a sex toy—I tell him stuff like that when it occurs because I know that about him and I know he enjoys it. He knows that I do NOT have that kink. I do not like feeling like an object or a toy, or like an easily interchangeable vagina. Maybe it's that I'm a woman and used to being objectified in ways that are unsexy.

Whatever it is, I want to feel like the person I'm having sex with is excited to have sex WITH ME, not like they're just excited to have sex in general, and I'm a convenient hole. :( I want to feel like we are creating something special together, not like I'm being masturbated into. It's, like, THE biggest boner-killer for me.

And, yeah, sometimes we DO fantasize out loud about threesomes or involving other people, but it's always with consent and about situations that we both know we both think are hot. That's a totally different animal. That's a play-pretend that we are creating together.

We hashed it out and he agreed to be careful of not saying stuff like that anymore. In a way, it SUCKS, because I'm used to us being able to say ANYTHING to each other sexually. But definitely the idea that the reason he might be so turned on in any given moment he's about to fuck me might have everything to do with some other chick he made out with and nothing to do with me gives me the squickies hardcore. And squickies mean a squelching of desire. And a squelching of desire means less sex. So for the sake of our sex life, I am going to have to ask him to be a more tight-lipped hinge.

On my end, I promised to try to forget about it. I have a bad trait of sometimes letting things that have bothered me roll around in my head forever, gathering more layers of material until they are boulders capable of crushing anything in their path. Anxiety, I guess. I told him that if he can go long enough without saying things like that, and I can go long enough pushing them out of my head, then eventually it will probably become an inert thing.

I really hate reality sometimes. Connecting with others is so difficult. The fact that someone else's truth can be so incompatible with my involuntary feelings—but it's still the truth!—is one of the hardest parts of getting close to someone. But I understand that Rider and I have, on the whole, been pretty lucky about being sexually compatible enough that, for the most part, turn-ons for one of us will also be a turn-on (or at the very least not a turn-OFF) for the other. I know that a lot of people struggle with that being a problem, so I guess it's not terribly surprising that we've got at least one. Probably more will surface over the time we're together.

And, hey, if it turns out to be an important kink for him to talk about his sexual energy with one partner whilst getting it on with another, he can do that with someone else, provided she's into it, and talk about me. :p Half-kidding. Really, though, if he wants to live that out with someone, I hope he finds it. Not my bag.

I can say that, overall, things are in a very interesting spot right now with me and Rider.

(continued...)
 
(...continued from previous)

On the one hand, we love each other so much and we have ALL THE FUN together, and our sex is still fantastic, and I really never thought a relationship could be so good.

On the other hand, dude, I still struggle so hard sometimes with Poly Things. I still crawl with WORMs and feel resentment when I see Rider change before my eyes—and not always in what I think is a good way—as an effect of exposure to new people.

I can say with 100% conviction that if the past year of our lives were to be representative of the rest of our lives, I could live with him happily ever after. Together, we work well. But the thing is, for the past year, we have been mostly functionally monogamous. And I really don't know what the coming year brings.

I'm more than a little terrified that if he keeps seeing Hannah, our wedding will fall right at the 4ish-month mark of their relationship, when NRE is usually off the charts. I blanch at the thought of prepping for our wedding, or being on our honeymoon, and him being distracted with NRE-strength missing her, or having that much of his energy diverted away from me during what is supposed to be one of the most important times of our life together. Historically, he has not been very good about reining in the chaos caused by his NRE. He gets it bad. He's asked me to try to give him the benefit of the doubt that he'll be able to keep it under control, and I'm trying. But it's really hard when history has suggested otherwise. And it's just really inconvenient timing. We'll see.

I am trying not to be ruled by fear. But it seems like just when I have been able to allay one of my own fears, another one pops up, like a whack-a-mole.

Like, I was very scared of the concept of imbalance: Rider being super into someone else and suddenly wanting to divide up our time a whole lot while I didn't have anyone and had no "poly benefits." But now that I like someone else, too, I worry instead about what happens if we're BOTH super distracted with other people and I get disabled by NRE, too, so there's no longer my little voice of reason piping up and reminding him that it's important for us to put effort into each other—what then?

Why does it sometimes feel like, even after three years, poly is basically just my playing with fire over and over until I get burned badly enough to get some sense and put it away—till I see enough destruction wrought and cry enough tears that I decide that the adrenaline rush isn't worth the risk of the jump? Sorry for the mixed metaphors.

There's also the issue of his going out and spending money on expensive dates (sushi, arcade night, fancy breweries with $6 pints) and then when I ask him when he's going to replace my fancy $10 body wash that he used most of, as he promised to do, he says, "Oh, not this week, I'm flat broke." Can you AFFORD a second girlfriend if you can't afford to keep your financial promises to your first partner? I know that most couples argue about money, but we mostly don't—until it becomes clear that there is literally something that I can't have that I was promised, and the reason why is because he has been going out and running up bar tabs that are multiple times what the thing he owes me cost.

It's not like he doesn't take me out, too—he does!—but the last time I tried to get sushi with him, he found out they weren't doing weekend happy hour anymore, and he said it'd be too expensive at full price. I don't want someone else to get all the fun, splurge-y dates just because it's important to be flexible and put your best face forward early on, y'know? It's the old poly saw that love might be infinite, but time, energy, and money are not. I *hate* being aware of resource competition, but it's hard not to be when stuff like that happens. It's hard not to feel competed with if my partner is willing to forgo having the same exact experience with me because a newer person is somehow "worth" spending more, or he wants to impress them and get them hooked. Makes me feel like "old hat" who will just always be there. :(

I really want a partner who, if they are willing to "build a life" with me, they are willing to make goals with me and work just as hard toward those goals as I am. I want to be able to sit down after the new year and make a budget and say, "OK, with our salaries, if we throw THIS percentage of our income at debt, and this percentage into savings, then we can afford a house in X years, and we can have THIS percentage left over for fun." And then know that a) they'll actually partner with me in this way, and b) that I'll still get some of the shared fun!

I've asked Rider if he'd be willing to budget with me in this way, and he has said that planning for the future freaks him out, but he's willing to give me all his numbers and let me crunch them and come at him with possible plans for him to sign off on. So that's good. But I'm a little afraid right now to talk to him about the my feelings about how he's been choosing to spend recently. Because a) really it's his decision to make, b) I'm exhausted from processing already, c) I worry that it will trigger one of those things where he thinks I'm trying to manipulate him, and d) I'm honestly not 100% sure that I'm not just being kind of an entitled brat.

Because, when I try to think about it from the other side, we've HAD our extravagant sushi dates early on. We've had our bar-hopping nights and "fuck-it, we're having so much fun, let's splurge" times. If he's starting something with someone new, don't they, in a way "deserve" a chance to do that too? Even if it takes away from my being able to do it? I really don't know.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ (I'll get around to talking to him about it eventually. I just have to figure out how...)

Lately sometimes when Rider and I have been talking, neither of us are sure if we're hashing out the last important issues before getting married, or if we're on the verge of breaking up. After talking, we always feel closer and more in love, so I guess that's a good sign. I really do feel committed to making things work with him, and he feels the same way, so that's also a good sign.

Sometimes I wonder, though. What if, in the course of our continuing to date others and "interview" them for partnership, he meets someone who struggles less than I do, and this whole poly thing comes more easily to them? What if I meet someone who skews, like I seem to do, somewhere BETWEEN poly and mono, and is a better fit for me in that way? What if Rider and I COULD have made this work if we focused on each other, but what if continuing to interview others distracts us so that when I struggle, it doesn't seem as worth it to either of us as it would have been if we'd been together just us and hit some other kind of rough patch?

As an aside, it came out in conversation recently that Rider does not believe that honesty is possible in monogamy! Which is utter bullshit. I know plenty of enlightened people on these boards who are living monogamously and don't believe that that means they have to hide their attractions or thoughts from their partners! I tried to tell him of this, but he remained unconvinced.

OF COURSE he thinks monogamy is a shit plan if he believes that dishonesty is part and parcel of it. He and I agree that our relationship is the healthiest either of us has ever had. But he pins that credit on poly and to the honesty it allows, whereas I believe that, now that I have grown to a certain degree emotionally, I am capable of being honest in any relationship: poly, mono, friendship, etc. He believes that monogamy creates power struggles and resentments based on boredom and frustration. I have seen power struggles and resentments in poly and mono relationships.

Anyway, yeah, we've been talking a lot. And we still always decide to stay together—never even get really close to breaking up. We're still getting closer by the day to our wedding. I guess I'm kind of getting to the point where I know it sounds insane to be still so uncertain of how the future will shake out with a person and be willing to marry them anyway—BUT I feel like nothing in life is ever actually certain, so at a point, I just have to take that leap of blind faith that we'll work it out no matter what. I'm willing to try my absolute hardest and, if it turns out that still isn't enough, at least I will know that I tried.
 
Want to say:

I'm happy you are back, writing your story, because I enjoy reading it! :)

And I'm thankful that you extended the offer of friendship in other social media because omfg you and Rider are so adorable I can hardly stand it. Just saying. And I admire the brave stuff you've done in the last few months.

So thank you for sharing. I appreciate you.

I am thinking that it's funny how people have certain triggers for squicky feelings, and we can all be so unique or different in it. Like the thing Rider said about energy from other partners. That would not bug me. Oddly, real stuff rarely does, especially if I know all about it. It's the nebulous things, and the stuff I don't understand as well, that make me feel uncomfortable. Just a me thing. *shrug* I guess.

And I do and don't agree about monogamy. I think he's right in the sense that most people who pursue a monogamous mode of relating do it as a matter of default, and they don't explore ideas about better relating, or take the time to really think about how to respect each other's needs and boundaries, and in general I think there is just tons of stuff that poly people often research and learn about that makes them/us better at relationships in general. Mono folks have been in Home Depot a few times, and own a hammer. Poly folks have got the Sears credit card for the big Craftsman set of tools in the fancy red metal box that takes up half the garage. Because we needed 'em! So we can take our heads apart and put them back together, and the typical mono person can...beat it with a hammer. Yeah.

But does that mean that someone cannot take those tools and bring them to bear upon a mono relationship? I don't see why not, if that is what they decide they want and their hearts are fulfilled in it. It's what I've chosen to do with Zen. He has the benefit of a lifetime of study and research on how to be healthy and good in relationships, a library's worth of self help information he's absorbed...I've taken the crash course since my marriage fell apart with poly, and discussion groups, and forums, and books, and all. Zen and I are practicing a closed mono model that, as far as I'm concerned, could become a marriage and continue that way indefinitely. But he knows that I have flirty interactions with other people. Doesn't mean I feel a need to share sex with them. And he knows when I find someone attractive, and I have no issue with him finding others attractive. We are human. Dishonesty is just...unnecessary. We're both safe in being honest with each other, there is no power struggle, and no need to lie. And we're both so empathic we'd probably know immediately if the other did.

My last marriage though? My ex finds the very concepts of how I now do relationships to be threatening and unnatural. The fact that a boyfriend would "allow" me to be with others, as I was before with the quad, without going into a psychotic rage about it...he does not understand how you can "be a man" and not exert violent control over your property. Only a "cuck" would let his woman be with other guys. Yeah, well, if you're trying to mono with a d-bag like that, then sure. That's what that means. It's all about the humans involved, isn't it? So. Thankfully I got out before he reached for the hammer and here we are.

There is the biggest difference in the world, between a man who will lose his fucking shit if you step "out of line" or do something that gives him an uncomfortableness....and one who simply says what makes him more or less comfortable, and lets me decide if it is a reasonable thing he can ask of me, or not. Zen didn't even ask. He simply told me what he was more comfortable with, and I decided to offer it to him. Negotiation in good faith.

So yeah, mono, like poly or anything, is what the people in it make of it.

And like you said, I have certainly seen poly groups implode under the weight of their own dramas and dysfunctions enough times to know that healthy/unhealthy is a completely unrelated metric to mono/poly.

(in the voice of Samuel L. Jackson) "What's in YOUR toolbox?"
 
Want to say:

I'm happy you are back, writing your story, because I enjoy reading it! :)

And I'm thankful that you extended the offer of friendship in other social media because omfg you and Rider are so adorable I can hardly stand it. Just saying. And I admire the brave stuff you've done in the last few months.

So thank you for sharing. I appreciate you.

Aw, thanks. You're sweet. I'll probably be around this week, since I'm off work, but then back to radio silence because I really need to focus on other things and it sometimes takes me hours to put together a post!

And I do and don't agree about monogamy. I think he's right in the sense that most people who pursue a monogamous mode of relating do it as a matter of default, and they don't explore ideas about better relating, or take the time to really think about how to respect each other's needs and boundaries, and in general I think there is just tons of stuff that poly people often research and learn about that makes them/us better at relationships in general. Mono folks have been in Home Depot a few times, and own a hammer. Poly folks have got the Sears credit card for the big Craftsman set of tools in the fancy red metal box that takes up half the garage. Because we needed 'em! So we can take our heads apart and put them back together, and the typical mono person can...beat it with a hammer. Yeah.

But does that mean that someone cannot take those tools and bring them to bear upon a mono relationship? I don't see why not, if that is what they decide they want and their hearts are fulfilled in it.

This is another thing that we've discussed. It's totally true that doing poly and all of the reading and writing, etc., about it has not given me more tools. The thing is that sometimes those tools have been of the "acquired by crucible" variety, and that is just SO hard to keep doing over and over. Sometimes I just don't feel that tough, to keep throwing myself into that fire!

In one particularly interesting turn of conversation, Rider said to me [paraphrased]:

"I don't get it. You've been studying poly since long before we've met—for at least seven years. You've listened to the podcasts and read all the books and participated in the forums and written page after page. You tried a poly relationship before I knew it existed. You know so much more about it than I do—you're the biggest "poly nerd" I have ever met. So how is it that you could be thinking it's not for you?"

And I just looked at him, a bit chagrined, and asked in return:

"So if two people tell you something is not for them, would you be more likely to believe the person who has just encountered the idea, or the person who has been working to understand it and immerse themselves in it for seven years?"

I don't think he wanted to hear that. But I persevere. Maybe in the coming year, I will gain even more understanding...
 
Well, and you know, I maintain that it is ENTIRELY FAIR for a person to say, "right now, today, this isn't right for me. I reserve the right to renegotiate later."

I actually consider it somewhere between baffling and frustrating that many folks have a need to declare themselves some particular thing and try to be that person in that setup for the rest of all time...and expect other people to, as well. That's why marriage has been a challenging concept for me, I guess. Seems lazy and selfish to say, "I demand to take for granted that what you have now is exactly what you will always want. Speak now or forever STFU and deal with it. This is what you're signing up for. This is what you get. Because I don't want the stress of having to process your shit later, I want to always know by default where I stand with you, so I demand that you preserve yourself in perfect stagnation for me and don't change. K? Thx." Um. That is neither realistic, nor fair, in my opinion, of anyone to expect of anyone.

Let us assume that one's spouse will be content with monogamy and have the same sexual orientation, even that the levels of love and affection manage to not significantly shift... Weight is gained and lost, wrinkles happen, the years go by and aging occurs.

So I much prefer to see a long term relationship, like a life, as this journey you're on together...instead of this destination you've reached and are settling into while you wait to die.

My mind wandered, whee!, it's early here yet... But the point was...somewhere back there... What's wrong with saying, "Hey I've got a lot of shit going on right now so maybe for the time being I need to stop trying to poly so hard and I'll revisit the idea perhaps down the road when I feel I've got the bandwidth for it. If I want." ?? I don't see why there ought to be anything wrong with that at all!
 
Studying something is not about being perfect. Studying something like poly is to give you the tools to deal with how it plays out. Just because your poly, it doesn't shut down how you feel.

You have been burned a few times. From what I have read all along Rider is a good match. It doesn't really matter if a relationship is poly or not. There will be highs and lows and more often then not the daily road. It is in my experience how we deal with it that is different.

Maybe your just tired of working on things right now. Poly can be a joy or a struggle, or it can just be.
 
For all my gnashing of teeth upthread, things are going well now.

Rider and I did talk about budget and date-spendy things, and he has said that he hopes to get to a point with Hannah where their hangouts are mostly Netflix and chill with a bit of conversation thrown in. He also bought my fancy soap and promised me that I will be allowed to have some of the fun.

Yesterday I met Hannah. She's...fine. She seems sweet and we got along just fine. I don't think she is someone I would pick out for myself as an ideal new friend—she is one of those people who will steamroll over you in conversation and interrupt a lot, and she has a habit of just mentioning new people by name without saying who they are ("my friend," "my partner," etc.) that I found unsettling, but I am conversationally submissive enough and easy-going enough that I don't ever foresee it becoming a Capital-P Problem.

She's completely unintimidating, too. The way that Rider had talked about her, extolling all of these skills that I don't have that I wish that I did, I was prepared to feel weird and competitive, but as it turns out, she isn't nearly as formidable as he made her sound. One thing she has completed teacher training for but never actually taught. Another thing USED to be her job but she got fired. Her degree is not as lofty as Rider had given me the impression of either. I had been prepared to be kind of accomplishment-outgunned by this person, and instead, she was just...regular.

That totally shouldn't even matter, but it does to me, and the reason why is because I am both easily intimidated in general by new people my partner is sleeping with, and also easily intimidated in general by people who are good at stuff I wish I was good at. So I feel like it would be a pretty potent combination for making me uncomfortable if I encountered it. Probably that's some stuff that I need to work on eventually, but I am just super thankful that "eventually" is not "now" since I have so much other stuff going on now.

So Hannah and I had coffee and conversation (actually not getting around to talking about much poly stuff, which was fine), and then I brought her back to our apartment and offered her a drink while we waited for Rider to arrive. Once he arrived, we sat around and all shot the shit for a bit, then they headed out on their date and I began to prepare for mine.

I met Jasper for sushi and the minute he saw me, his face lit up. I was not even dressed super fancy or anything. He must really like me. :cool:

We had a grand time at dinner, and then afterward he came with me to take Oona's dog out (she's on vacation) and then back to his place for conversation and makeouts. That went really well. I really like the way that he kisses. I was actually getting really turned on, which is kind of amazing. We also chatted a lot—about poly, about his past relationship, about his trip back east. He's ridiculously sweet and easy to talk to. Eventually it got late and I disentangled all my limbs from his and went home.

Poor Rider must have had too much fun on his own date. He was totally passed out, and then—when I woke him—completely wasted. He must not have had enough to eat or something. I cooked him breakfast for midnight dinner, in the hopes that it would head further ill fate off at the pass, but no such luck. He was sick before and then after eating a single piece of toast. Poor guy. I cleaned the bathroom and put him to bed. Normally I think I might have felt resentful that he got so wild out on a date that he was then a disaster that I had to clean up after, but literally all I felt was a tender love and willingness to help. It didn't matter why he felt terrible, it only mattered that he did, and I wanted to try to help him feel better.

Jasper and I had talked about doing lunch today, and so we did. On the cheap, too! I picked up some groceries and we nibbled on bread and fruit and cheese at his place. Once we were done eating, we made out some more and discussed more poly things such as when and how he prefers to meet Rider. The makeout got hot and heavy, and we moved it to the bedroom and I ended up giving him a handjob. At some point before then, I had paused the action and reiterated that I was not going to go very far, and we had the testing conversation.

I *probably* would have gone down on him if he'd been able to produce evidence of recent testing, but as it stood, he'd only been tested at the beginning of the year and had had multiple (though he said not excessive) casual encounters since then. So I told him that being part of a poly chain, I have to be super careful, and told him I'd send him the info on the nearby clinic (which I have since done). And he seemed super cool with that.

We talked about under what circumstances he'd be most comfortable with meeting Rider, and we talked about what kind of time allotment he was ideally looking for (which lined up about perfectly with what I'll probably have available while Rider is on dates with Hannah). We talked about how great it was that we live only a 15-minute bike ride away from each other. And mostly we made out and talked about how much we liked each other.

By the time I got home, I was starting to feel fleeting little tingles of proto-NRE at the smell of him on my hands and arms.

————— BREAKING NEWS —————

Dude.

Literally he just texted me to say that he went to the testing center right after I sent him the info. And they were full for the day and he had to come back tomorrow. But. WHAT IN THE ACTUAL FUCK IS THIS PERSON WHO LIKES ME ENOUGH TO GO DO THE THING IMMEDIATELY?

OK, being responsible just dialed that proto-NRE up to, like, the actual real thing.

SQUEEEEEEEE!

I have to go make dinner for Rider now. But, just whoa? Whoa.
 
I have a lot to say but I really, really have to get some vocal takes recorded this afternoon, so I'm going to be quick. My previous post about things going well now...last night Rider and I had a little talk about why that is, and I can break it down here, I think:

1. Balance. Literally I was about to be DONE with poly to the point of considering canceling a wedding with someone I love more than anything, just because I couldn't bear the thought of AGAIN always being the person stuck at home with no one to cuddle while my partner was off getting his jollies with someone else. As long as I can get some of the "more" and not always be stuck with the "less"—as long as there is a balance, I'm OK. The minute I start feeling like I have a fraction of a relationship rather than more than one relationship or even just one relationship, that's when I go from zero to miserable in sixty seconds.

2. Pacing. This time we are taking things so very slow. Rider has been allowing me ample time to get acclimated to every "stage" instead of rushing into anything or pushing me past my comfort zone. And, in turn, I have indeed been getting comfortable with every stage. Hannah had asked Rider if he would spend the night with her next week, and instead of saying yes right away, he asked me how I felt about it. More details on that in #3.

3. Attentiveness. When Rider asked how I felt about a first overnight, I told him, honestly, that it would be easier for me if we were both able to spend the night away the first time, and I am not to that point with Jasper yet. I told him that I was not going to tell him he "couldn't" do it—the choice was his—but I'm glad that he asked, and I told him my truth. He was better than fine with it and said he recognized that I wasn't telling him what to do. He said my feelings made sense to him and he honored my discomfort by telling Hannah that he didn't think it was time for that yet—not making me out to be the bad guy because it really was his choice. Rider's attentiveness to my feelings, even when he really WANTS to do something, is new behavior and makes me feel less doomed. He's really putting a LOT of energy into making sure I feel secure and making sure I know that I come first in his life. I'm really starting to believe that there won't be another round of late-2014/early-2015 coming my way.

4. The other people involved. Hannah is harmless. She's poly-experienced, friendly, always seems to perfectly understand when a request must be denied or put off, and has enough other partners that she's not glomming onto Rider as a replacement for her failed primary relationship. Jasper is also harmless. I think he's been lonely for a while and is really just happy to be getting regular attention from someone he actually likes. He, himself, went through a bad poly situation where his last partner "demoted" him to secondary, so he has no desire to be the architect of anyone else's similar misery. And I think that all four of us, by nature, are pretty sweet, happy, benevolent creatures, which makes a difference.

So. Maybe stuff will actually work this time?

As an aside, it's funny, ever since I pulled back from Beckett and his hot-and-cold game, he has sent me a series of Very Sincere Texts. I have let him know that, while I will always love him, I've sealed it up for now to protect my own heart, but I do still consider him a dear friend. I don't want us to be totally out of each other's lives, but—damn!—my obsession with him was too much and I am glad to have emerged from the haze of it.

I don't think my "thing" with Jasper will ever approach that level of obsession, which is a GOOD thing. I can definitely see myself really liking him, and for an extended period of time, even, but I don't think that even with NRE bubbling all about it'll become an obsession. Jasper and I are too alike, I think, and obsession, for me, usually has something to do with unraveling a mystery. For Beckett, I was willing to try to bend the constraints of budget, space, and time just for another peek inside. For Jasper, I just turned down a chance to see him a third day in a row because I have music to make.

Speaking of which...off I go to the microphone.
 
Last night, Rider and I had a great lazy NYE at home, and today we are just lazing about on the couch so far.

Yesterday, Jasper wanted me to come over and kiss him, and I figured that a New Year's kiss would be a nice thing to do, since he currently has no other partners. I worked it out with Rider and ended up tacking a 15-minute Jasper visit onto my errand run. I was going to two grocery stores to get some stuff for my NYE with Rider, and Jasper lives only like 5 minutes from one of the stores. Rider was not 100% pleased with this at first, but when I explained my reasoning, it was fine.

When I got to Jasper's, we rolled around and kissed for a few minutes. I saw the marks on his arm from getting tested. I am still so amazed that he turned that around so fast—literally I made the request and he did it as soon as was humanly possible.

After that, I went to the stores and then came home and worked on music with Rider for hours and hours. As the night wore on, Jasper started drunk-texting me, and it was adorable. He said he liked me "a lot a lot" and "so much that it was starting to worry [him], 'cause it's a lot." And I just told him I like him a lot too, and not to worry.

But today he was trying to get me to come over again, and I kind of had to remind him that we'd said once a week and...I am slightly beginning to worry that even though he said that would be perfect for him, now that he likes me more, it's not going to be enough?

I mean, yeah, if I had more time, I totally WOULD spend more time with him. But Rider was dodgy about my even taking 15 extra minutes yesterday, and I am really not currently interested in rocking the boat.

I really like Jasper too—a whole, whole lot. I think he's really cool and ridiculously, stunningly hot, and smart and talented and sweet and it really seems like he could be a part of my life in a meaningful way. But I also don't want it to end up being a situation where he suffers because he wants more of me than I am available to give... :/

I dunno. All of that is out of my control, so I all I can do is stick to my guns and do what's right for me and my situation, and the rest is on him to handle.

Jasper and Rider will meet for the first time tomorrow—we've scheduled lunch and drinks together since Rider and I both have the day off. I'd asked Jasper what would be the most comfortable (for him) way to meet Rider, and he'd said he liked the idea of meeting Rider, and he would prefer to meet us at a neutral location and then go our separate ways after. Jasper said he would feel weird if I arrived with Rider and then left with Jasper. Which is fine with me; it fits better in our day's plans anyway.

My next actual date with Jasper is not until Thursday. I have a work dinner and then am supposed to go over to his place for after-dinner drinks and (if he has his test results back) possibly sex. I have not had sex with a new guy for a year and a half, or a new person at all in a year, so it's going to be fun and weird and interesting.

Rider and Hannah have had the testing conversation now too. She's recently tested and he's going to try to get tested ASAP. He's been with Allie a couple of times since his last testing, which was some time ago, so he's definitely due. They have only had protected sex, though, so I'm sure he'll be fine. I think Allie doesn't really fluid bond with anyone, so I'm not worried about it. I last got tested in preparation for Sam's visit but we never ended up having sex that visit. And I haven't been with anyone else but Rider since. Both Jasper and Hannah were super happy that Rider and I pushed the testing conversation, thanking us for being conscientious.

I definitely have some degree of NRE-brain going on right now. Like, Rider is currently napping, and NRE-brain has been looking at the clock and calculating how many minutes I could have been hanging out with Jasper already, if only it had been arranged. Obviously that is totally illogical. I would be pissed as hell if Rider decided to nip off see someone else the second I fell asleep on a lazy day together. But knowing that Jasper is so close and wants to see me so badly makes the machination start turning in my head.

It seems kind of silly to miss someone I've known for two weeks, LOL. But I do. All this stuff is so strange to me—having gone from "fuck all of this" to "but wait now I want to see this new person a lot!" in two weeks. A lot changed on the second date, and even more on the third. After the first date, I thought, "Oh, this person is cool and not intimidating." After the second date, I thought, "Wow, I really like and am attracted to this person." And after the third date, I really was basically hooked. I guess this is how this stuff works. It still seems kinda strange and alien to me though.

I am about to get really busy with work stuff, so this is probably nearing the end of my regular updates again, but I will try to at least pop in at some point and update with how the Rider/Jasper meeting went—this whole brand new experiment wherein Rider and I are BOTH dating local people regularly at the same time. Yay/eek!
 
Well, holy shit, that went well. We went for Thai food and Jasper and Rider both really liked each other and talked about stuff they had in common and everything was low-key and friendly.

My NRE for Jasper is to the point where just sitting across the table from him and locking eyes for a second makes me melt. Rider said he is also attracted to him but, of course, would never hit on him. Rider said that he would definitely like to at least be buddies with Jasper though, if Jasper were to be into it. Jasper at least seems into that much.

When we parted ways, Rider and Jasper gave each other a real hug. Then Jasper and I hugged for a little while. We exchanged cheek pecks. I didn't want to get too sexualized in a group context.

After Jasper went on his way home and Rider and I went to ours, Jasper and I were texting. He said he really wants to make out with me whenever he sees me, and we got started having a discussion about sex things—what we're into, etc. There is a LOT of kink overlap there. I think that as long as the actual physical part of the sex goes well, we're going to be super sexually compatible.

I really think this guy may be boyfriend material if the sex works out and things continue to go well. I can tell that he really, really likes me, and the feeling is so mutual. His birthday is next week, and he's told me he'd like me to come over that night and hang out. I told him I'd cook him dinner. :)

He said he may also be having a larger event with friends that Saturday night. I told him I'd understand if we were too early in the dating process for him to feel comfy introducing me around to his friends. But I have to say that I really like the idea of being his date in a group situation and meeting his friends.

Rider and I have been having talks about whether—if I do go out with Jasper that Saturday night—Rider would be comfortable with me spending the night. It's complicated. Firstly because I'd told him I wouldn't be comfortable with an overnight unless we could "stack" them, and Hannah is spending a weeklong vacation elsewhere that week. But it's Jasper's birthday weekend, and I'd kind of love to give him our first overnight as a nightcap to his birthday celebration—if indeed he wants me there in the first place.

I told Rider I'm happy to do whatever he's comfortable with. It's just coincidental bad timing that Hannah is gone during Jasper's birthday week, which is the week when, in general, I'm more inclined to want to give him "extra." I understand that it's on some level not fair that I was uncomfortable with Rider doing an overnight first at a time when I wasn't, and that the first time it really makes good sense for me to do an overnight would be a time when he CAN'T, so I'm flexible.

You guys. I really like this guy.

I also had a visit from Planet Beckett today. "My sister wants you to be my girlfriend," he said. The conversation only got weirder from there, SMH. He's never come that close to suggesting an Actual Relationship before. And I know it's only because I've pulled back to some degree. Fix your situation and your hot and cold problem, dude, and then we'll talk. I'd date him (even long-distance) in a heartbeat if he'd pull his shit together, and I feel like he knows it. However there have been zero offers of or proof of shit-togetherness, so...in the sealed box of no-fucks-given he stays. :p
 
"My sister wants you to be my girlfriend"

Seriously, what? Such a silly thing to say.

So glad stuff is going like that with Jasper. I feel like I'm reading a story and there is all this yummy tension, and I'm waiting to hear what it's like when the day comes and the sex thing happens. :D

I caught myself thinking just now...about how fun NRE is and especially that tension and the point where that wave breaks and all. Wondering if my relationship with Zen is really going to be enough long term to keep me from missing that and wanting to do it again sometime. But it's not a very good string of thinking today because I'm feeling a bit droppy and emotionally wobbly. I think I'd rather not contemplate it except insofar as I am kinda tickled for you that you're experiencing that fun with your new guy.

Let us know how it goes...pervy inquiring minds and all...lol...
 
So busy it feels like I'm dying. I have to put in at least 32 hours of EXTRA (outside of regular work hours) work between now and bedtime on Tuesday.

Rider will be out with Hannah till midnight, so I can not work snuggled next to him like I usually do when I work from home.

I AM SO THANKFUL FOR JASPER...

...who will be letting me collapse on him between 10:00 and midnight. And who takes off my shoes when I come in his door. And who is really, really good at oral.

This is about the time where, if I didn't have a Jasper, I would be probably be suffering a "why does Rider get all the fun" breakdown. But there won't be time to do that, because I'll either be working or being doted upon by a very hot new friend. ;)
 
Question to those of you who read here: what are your thoughts on privacy between relationships when there are serious issues afoot?

The current issue at hand is that there is some major restructuring happening in my relationship with Rider at some point in the not-too-distant future. The backstory is super long, and I hope to post later tonight, but the long and short of it is that I don't want to do "real poly" anymore when the clock runs out on this Jasper thing.

I can't commit to being married under "real poly" circumstances. I've figured that out over the past year or so, while TRYING LIKE HELL to make it work. I really only want some kind of "open lite" where things that are impossible to acquire in a two-person relationship (group sex, other-gender experiences) are fair game, and where long-standing casual connections (such as Allie and Elise) who have caused no drama are grandfathered in for one-on-one fun. And it's not a never-say-never thing—I can imagine situations where there will be exceptions—but I don't want "serious relationships with other people" to be the default law of the land anymore. I can't handle it with everything else going on in my life.

I'm just sick and tired of the endless processing. Of schedule conflicts. Of weird tit-for-tat stuff. Of Rider feeling some kind of obligation of "dibs" on doing things because they were mentioned by the other person first. Of the potential for imbalance always hanging over my head. I've discovered that I 100% absolutely am poly by orientation—I can and do love multiple people at once—but I am ill-suited to poly in practice.

I'm too picky. I'm too introverted. I am too prone to falling in love with and getting hurt by the people who make it past my picky-filter. I have so little time and energy that I would much rather be spending my mental and emotional resources on shit that matters instead of poly processing. Oh, to think of all the art I could have created and all of the political difference I could have made over the past few years if I hadn't been pouring all of my energy into THIS.

This might mean the end of my relationship with Rider. I am to a point where I would be deeply saddened by that but ultimately able to handle it emotionally. I have identified the path I want to walk, and I have felt immense, indescribable relief when I finally figured it out and voiced it.

I feel at peace with my realization—so much peace. I would 100% be happier completely alone than trying to fit my square peg into this round hole anymore. Literally all of my "fear of the future" issues that I constantly have struggled with fell away when I realized that the future is only scary if I feel like it holds the promise of my continuing to bend into shapes I don't fit into. If I find and walk the path that is best FOR ME, the future feels wide-open and exciting instead of terrifying and constricting. This is a huge lesson I have figured out just this week.

Similarly, I have no desire to change him or to force him onto a path he is not comfortable with, so I have left the ball in his court. The question he needs to figure out is this: would he be happier in a more limited-open situation with me than he would be without any romantic relationship with me but able to go do whatever kind of poly he can dream up. The path no longer exists where he can have both. I am not going to try to influence him or push him. I'm just waiting. This is "Rider stuff." If he cannot find a place within him where the answer to that question is the "joyful hell yes," then it is over. I even refuse to take a grudging, eventually resentful semi-yes for an answer. There will be no arm-twisting "cowboy" maneuvers. Either he's all in, or he ain't.

I'm also not telling him that he needs to end things with Hannah right now in order to "keep" me. I have no desire to "veto" her. I have no particular issues with her—I'm not even jealous of her. And, on my end, I'm definitely not finished exploring with Jasper either. But I do think that if Rider's choice is "me" over "full poly," then eventually he'll have to wind things down with her and fade out, because I will eventually become resentful if he says he's willing to commit to what I'm offering and then she just sticks around for years.

Where the privacy issue comes in is this: we promised to each other that we would keep our own relationship issues out of discussion with outside partners.

Like, it's OK to say, "Sorry if I'm distracted. I'm stressed out because I'm having relationship issues with another partner." And it's OK to say, "I don't see my relationship with you being able to progress past point X because circumstances have arisen that mean that I need to put most of my focus on my other relationship(s) for the foreseeable future. Are you cool with this being a casual, temporary thing?" Or, if you want to be REALLY general, just "I'm really not at a place right now where this is working for me, but it's nothing that you've done. Can we dial it back to friends level?"

These things are about one's own feelings and state of being, and they don't shift blame over to another partner. They address the fact that everyone is autonomous adults who take responsibility for their own adult actions and choices. They present the truth—a detail-less truth, yes, but still the truth—and let the other party make their own autonomous adult decision about whether they are cool with the situation or not.

But it's not OK to say to outside partners, "Rider's handling of scheduling and 'dibs' things has led me to realize that poly is not a good fit for me at this time" or "Reverie has gotten worn out on poly so I have to end things with you." I really think it is uncool to give outside partners too much of a window on what is going on in our relationship, and super-completely uncool to BLAME a partner for what is ultimately one's own decision.

I just feel like . . . it's impossible to have trust and a feeling of your relationship being a safe space if you think your partner is turning around giving details about the problems that you're having, or is blaming YOU for being the architect of THEIR eventual choices. To tell "you stuff" to your other partner is fine. To "tattle" your other partner's stuff seems drama-stirring and childish.

But, in discussion earlier, Rider said something about "what Hannah will think" when he tells her X and I was like, "Wait, WHY would you tell her X when we have a promise in place that we don't do that kind of thing?" And he countered that if this decision is what's on the table right now, then it is a different situation. I think it's EXACTLY the situation that the promise was built for!

Your thoughts?
 
Last edited:
I just wanted to say I think it's awesome that you've been figuring out what you want and need in a relationship :)

Like, it's OK to say, "Sorry if I'm distracted. I'm stressed out because I'm having relationship issues with another partner." And it's OK to say, "I don't see my relationship with you being able to progress past point X because circumstances have arisen that mean that I need to put most of my focus on my other relationship(s) for the foreseeable future. Are you cool with this being a casual, temporary thing?" Or, if you want to be REALLY general, just "I'm really not at a place right now where this is working for me, but it's nothing that you've done. Can we dial it back to friends level?"

These things are about one's own feelings and state of being, and they don't shift blame over to another partner. They address the fact that everyone is autonomous adults who take responsibility for their own adult actions and choices. They present the truth—a detail-less truth, yes, but still the truth—and let the other party make their own autonomous adult decision about whether they are cool with the situation or not.

But it's not OK to say to outside partners, "Rider's handling of scheduling and 'dibs' things has led me to realize that poly is not a good fit for me at this time" or "Reverie has gotten worn out on poly so I have to end things with you." I really think it is uncool to give outside partners too much of a window on what is going on in our relationship, and super-completely uncool to BLAME a partner for what is ultimately one's own decision.

I just feel like . . . it's impossible to have trust and a feeling of your relationship being a safe space if you think your partner is turning around giving details about the problems that you're having, or is blaming YOU for being the architect of THEIR eventual choices. To tell "you stuff" to your other partner is fine. To "tattle" your other partner's stuff seems drama-stirring and childish

This is generally how I feel about it, too... And when I have been in the position of "outside partner", I've much preferred to hear "hey, this is where I am, this is what I need, this is what I can offer" than "my wife says blah blah my wife feels blah blah my wife and I decided blah blah". So I tend to think you're also doing your other partners a favor by not exposing them to the ins and outs of every relationship discussion.

But - I get that not everyone feels that way, and to some, skipping over the reasons and process can feel like withholding information. And maybe not so much with your current situation, because you're dealing with newish other partners, but... Partners are frequently our closest friends. Sometimes we need them as sounding boards, brainstorming partners, support systems, and that's hard when you can't spill your guts.

I guess, if Rider WANTS to talk to Hannah (or other future people) about this... Ask yourself why it bugs you so much. Because she might start to see you as the bad guy? Because it feels like she and Rider are ganging up on you? Because you worry Rider will make it seem like this was your decision rather than a joint one? Whatever it is, maybe there is a work around, a way he can share more of the backstory with her that doesn't make you uncomfortable.

I do think it becomes much easier going forward, when both of you can just say up front that you're not available for serious relationships, and that's just a given for new people in your lives.
 
I guess, if Rider WANTS to talk to Hannah (or other future people) about this... Ask yourself why it bugs you so much. Because she might start to see you as the bad guy? Because it feels like she and Rider are ganging up on you? Because you worry Rider will make it seem like this was your decision rather than a joint one? Whatever it is, maybe there is a work around, a way he can share more of the backstory with her that doesn't make you uncomfortable.

I do think it becomes much easier going forward, when both of you can just say up front that you're not available for serious relationships, and that's just a given for new people in your lives.

I can tell you exactly what bugs me about it. It's like . . . well, there are two parts to it . . . part one is that if someone is coming to you about their relationship problems, that's sort of an advice-giving position to be in. And I am vehemently opposed to putting someone in an advice-giving position where there is a conflict of interest or a strong possibility for bias in the advice that might be doled out. It's like asking the fox what kind of door to put on the henhouse. If he wants to talk to platonic friends about it, or family members, or strangers on the internet, PLEASE DO! But to give other partners a chance to weigh in and tip the scale, when what I need from him is how he really feels inside—I don't like that.

And part two is definitely the "whose decision was this" factor. If he and I stay together, it is very important to me that our decisions are presented to others as the united front that we actually are when making them.

In this particular situation, I'm not even going to continue with him unless he can find a way to be as on-board with what I've proposed as I am. It is our decision and I fear that there is a temptation to present things to outside people as having little ownership of a decision that might negatively affect those outside people. I don't want Rider to present the face of the put-upon, hen-pecked man who is ending something because wifey says so and it's out of his control. I want him to take ownership of his part.

Indeed, I have no desire at all to hen-peck him into being on board. Either he looks inside himself and will be happy this way and, having decided so, will be happy about and proud of his decision, or he looks inside himself and discovers that he'd rather have a different kind of life partner than I am, and hopefully he will be just as happy about and proud of that decision in the long run too.

Of course, if we break up, then he can say whatever he wants to whomever he pleases and it's no skin off me. I am really at such zen peace with my own decision that I can't even put it into words.
 
Back
Top