GirlFromTexlahoma
New member
Congratulations to you and Rider!!!! I'm thrilled for you guys (and also insanely jealous of your trip 
)
)
The Best Life Yet
- Thread starter Reverie
- Start date
playfulgirl
Member
Congrats reverie. I love your vows!
Reverie
Active member
Hi everyone! We're finally back from our wedding and epic European honeymoon! We got back Saturday afternoon and promptly slept for nearly two days. This morning I opened my laptop for the first time in over two weeks! I'll post more pics when I get the "real" wedding pics that Perry took, and surely some honeymoon pics too, but in the meantime, here you can see a pic of us that Carrie took right after the knot was tied.
When I get some more time, I hope to post a more comprehensive update, but the short version is that everything was beautiful and amazing, going off with barely a hitch. We're both super happy!
In poly-ish news, I'd been a little worried that the whole wedding and being gone would finally scare Jasper off for good, but he's been IMing on and off with me during the whole trip, and I'm seeing him tonight for the first time since returning. He tried to get me to come see him Saturday night after we got in from the airport—champing at the bit, that one!—but tonight was the best I could do. I brought him a little trinket from each stop on our journey.
I promise to update more thoroughly later this week, even if it's not till Sunday...
Tonight = Jasper
Tomorrow night = pre-practice for our show
Weds = real practice
Thu = gonna go see a concert—the Magnetic Fields
Fri = a friend is in town and she's gonna tweak the latex dress she made me as a wedding present
Sat = our band has a show at a houseparty
Sun = hopefully some downtime!
No rest for the married!
When I get some more time, I hope to post a more comprehensive update, but the short version is that everything was beautiful and amazing, going off with barely a hitch. We're both super happy!
In poly-ish news, I'd been a little worried that the whole wedding and being gone would finally scare Jasper off for good, but he's been IMing on and off with me during the whole trip, and I'm seeing him tonight for the first time since returning. He tried to get me to come see him Saturday night after we got in from the airport—champing at the bit, that one!—but tonight was the best I could do. I brought him a little trinket from each stop on our journey.
I promise to update more thoroughly later this week, even if it's not till Sunday...
Tonight = Jasper
Tomorrow night = pre-practice for our show
Weds = real practice
Thu = gonna go see a concert—the Magnetic Fields
Fri = a friend is in town and she's gonna tweak the latex dress she made me as a wedding present
Sat = our band has a show at a houseparty
Sun = hopefully some downtime!
No rest for the married!
Reverie
Active member
Last night with Jasper was incredible. There was barely a hint of weirdness after not seeing each other for three weeks. We ordered Indian food (my favorite!), had sex, the food arrived, we ate and watched the show we'd started last month (he waited for me before watching more!), we had sex again, we went out to two bars having one cocktail at each, and then we came back and had sex again. Then we cuddled for a while and started to doze. I stayed over. He stayed up late playing video games but eventually came to bed. I woke up before my alarm, collected my leftover food, and slipped out, kissing him on the forehead and leaving a note on his keyboard.
He was super cuddly and affectionate the whole time, bestowing oodles of little kisses all over my head and neck and hands, pulling me into his lap while we ordered food, and spooning me from behind and grabbing my hands as we watched TV. It was really nice. I quite like how we have struck this balance of being super into each other when we are together, and keeping in loose contact when we are apart, but it no longer ever becomes this burning, desperate, NRE-fueled thing. I know it's a thing that he did on purpose, creating that distance from the consuming fires of desire, and I didn't much like it at first, but these days it serves me very well.
I'd worried back when Rider and I had started seeing Hannah and Jasper (respectively) that during our wedding and honeymoon, our being at the four-month point of seeing new people would mean we would be all distracted and burned up with NRE. I think I'd mostly worried about this because of our past experiences—four months into my seeing Rider, I was totally bonkers with NRE for him. It's right after I started this blog, and I think pretty much all I did here for the first few months was squee. And four months into Rider seeing Kelly was pretty much peak distraction point for him.
But it totally hasn't been like that for me with Jasper, and I think I have Jasper's own relational conservatism to thank. Even though it has, at times, really hurt me and driven me kind of crazy, it seems like it's been for the best. If he'd let me—let us—continue to fall down the super-intense rabbit hole that we were falling down together at the beginning, who knows where we'd be at this point. I kind of feel like I should ACTUALLY thank him, like write him a letter letting him know how much I appreciate him and how honest and willing to work on things with me he's been.
The only tiny little hint of weirdness that made me say "barely" above was this: at one point, after one of the sex rounds, we were cuddled up together, and we were both expressing happiness at the balance we've currently found. And he paused for a moment, began to say something about how finding the balance is still hard, and then stopped and said, "I'm just going to enjoy the moment right now and not make it weird." So, I guess there's still some more brewing in that adorable head of his. Only time will tell what it is . . .
He was super cuddly and affectionate the whole time, bestowing oodles of little kisses all over my head and neck and hands, pulling me into his lap while we ordered food, and spooning me from behind and grabbing my hands as we watched TV. It was really nice. I quite like how we have struck this balance of being super into each other when we are together, and keeping in loose contact when we are apart, but it no longer ever becomes this burning, desperate, NRE-fueled thing. I know it's a thing that he did on purpose, creating that distance from the consuming fires of desire, and I didn't much like it at first, but these days it serves me very well.
I'd worried back when Rider and I had started seeing Hannah and Jasper (respectively) that during our wedding and honeymoon, our being at the four-month point of seeing new people would mean we would be all distracted and burned up with NRE. I think I'd mostly worried about this because of our past experiences—four months into my seeing Rider, I was totally bonkers with NRE for him. It's right after I started this blog, and I think pretty much all I did here for the first few months was squee. And four months into Rider seeing Kelly was pretty much peak distraction point for him.
But it totally hasn't been like that for me with Jasper, and I think I have Jasper's own relational conservatism to thank. Even though it has, at times, really hurt me and driven me kind of crazy, it seems like it's been for the best. If he'd let me—let us—continue to fall down the super-intense rabbit hole that we were falling down together at the beginning, who knows where we'd be at this point. I kind of feel like I should ACTUALLY thank him, like write him a letter letting him know how much I appreciate him and how honest and willing to work on things with me he's been.
The only tiny little hint of weirdness that made me say "barely" above was this: at one point, after one of the sex rounds, we were cuddled up together, and we were both expressing happiness at the balance we've currently found. And he paused for a moment, began to say something about how finding the balance is still hard, and then stopped and said, "I'm just going to enjoy the moment right now and not make it weird." So, I guess there's still some more brewing in that adorable head of his. Only time will tell what it is . . .
Reverie
Active member
Since we haven't gotten our instruments back from Perry yet (long story), Rider and I did not have mini-practice yesterday. Instead, we went on a nice little casual date: happy hour cocktails at our favorite retro bar, a bit of grocery shopping together, then Taco Tuesday. I love him so much. We had a lot of fun.
Then we came home and promptly passed out in a taco coma (aka "going to Tacoma") until 3 a.m.! At which point we woke up and had some mind-blowing sex, then went back to sleep. We inadvertently tried a new position for him giving me oral that allowed me to use my hand on him, and it was really good for both of us. Then PIV that was so intense that it made my eyes want to roll back in my head.
We joked that, as a married couple back in a weekly routine, we've had one night of the stereotypical falling asleep on the couch before 9:00, but we also had one night where he was out at a metal show on the Strip while I was off fucking someone else. A healthy mix! And at least we still had sex even after falling asleep so early.
Speaking of "someone else," I did end up sending Jasper a thank-you letter, and he liked it very much. He might be finding out today whether he got that dream job! The guy asked him to come by in person today, which seems like a good sign after weeks of emailing and doing art tests. If he gets the job, he'll be working close enough to where I work that we'd be able to do lunch together once in a while, or happy hour after work.
I also effusively thanked Rider over drinks yesterday for just being so completely awesome—both about the Jasper thing and in general. It was actually Rider who brought up my staying at Jasper's the other night, letting me know it'd be OK with him, and I hadn't really even considered it yet at the time. It is not lost on me how lucky I am to be with someone who very well could have said to me once we were married that it seemed like a logical time to click over to the monogamishamy we'd discussed before, BUT DIDN'T DO THAT. And it's not that he has never struggled, nor that he doesn't sometimes still. But he loves me and wants to see me happy and he knows that Jasper adds to my happiness, so he has worked through that stuff to the point where he's OK.
In addition to the gratitude making my love for Rider even stronger, there's also the factor of how the sexual variety makes me appreciate each boy more. Yesterday morning, climbing out of the bed with the cat and the skinny, fuzzy, dark-haired boy, Lyfting home, and then crawling into the bed with the cat and the soft, smooth, pale-haired boy . . . makes me feel like some kind of queen with a wealth of sexual riches, haha. Jasper is new, exotic, and always just a bit estranged. Rider is familiar and just my complete and total home, and being with him is always a relief after interacting with anyone else, no matter how much I like them. He's never dull in comparison to a "new shiny"—rather his glow is deeper and more comforting, the glow of a soft-white incandescent bulb rather than the blinding surface shine of the sun flashing across chrome.
We also talked over drinks about how Rider is starting to desire a bit of "strange" himself, and, as I've been telling him ever since we did that whole processing bit when Jasper came back around, I told him that if he wanted to dust off his OKC in search of FWB, that's totally fine with me. He said he wasn't sure he wanted to do that quite yet, but he did express interest in reactivating our Feeld app account to try to find some threesome action. I would be down for that, with a caveat that I'm feeling pretty dude-saturated so would only be into ladies for that stuff.
It's kinda odd, actually—when I picture what kind of threesome would be the most fun, it's mostly me watching Rider with a girl, and maybe interacting with the girl a bit and/or a bit of oral/manual on Rider, but little to no interest in the P in my own V in a threesome. It's kind of the opposite of how I used to feel, which was very interested in making sure I got enough of my own share of the fuck-time. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Shit changes and evolves, I guess.
Then we came home and promptly passed out in a taco coma (aka "going to Tacoma") until 3 a.m.! At which point we woke up and had some mind-blowing sex, then went back to sleep. We inadvertently tried a new position for him giving me oral that allowed me to use my hand on him, and it was really good for both of us. Then PIV that was so intense that it made my eyes want to roll back in my head.
We joked that, as a married couple back in a weekly routine, we've had one night of the stereotypical falling asleep on the couch before 9:00, but we also had one night where he was out at a metal show on the Strip while I was off fucking someone else. A healthy mix!
And at least we still had sex even after falling asleep so early.Speaking of "someone else," I did end up sending Jasper a thank-you letter, and he liked it very much. He might be finding out today whether he got that dream job! The guy asked him to come by in person today, which seems like a good sign after weeks of emailing and doing art tests. If he gets the job, he'll be working close enough to where I work that we'd be able to do lunch together once in a while, or happy hour after work.
I also effusively thanked Rider over drinks yesterday for just being so completely awesome—both about the Jasper thing and in general. It was actually Rider who brought up my staying at Jasper's the other night, letting me know it'd be OK with him, and I hadn't really even considered it yet at the time. It is not lost on me how lucky I am to be with someone who very well could have said to me once we were married that it seemed like a logical time to click over to the monogamishamy we'd discussed before, BUT DIDN'T DO THAT. And it's not that he has never struggled, nor that he doesn't sometimes still. But he loves me and wants to see me happy and he knows that Jasper adds to my happiness, so he has worked through that stuff to the point where he's OK.
In addition to the gratitude making my love for Rider even stronger, there's also the factor of how the sexual variety makes me appreciate each boy more. Yesterday morning, climbing out of the bed with the cat and the skinny, fuzzy, dark-haired boy, Lyfting home, and then crawling into the bed with the cat and the soft, smooth, pale-haired boy . . . makes me feel like some kind of queen with a wealth of sexual riches, haha. Jasper is new, exotic, and always just a bit estranged. Rider is familiar and just my complete and total home, and being with him is always a relief after interacting with anyone else, no matter how much I like them. He's never dull in comparison to a "new shiny"—rather his glow is deeper and more comforting, the glow of a soft-white incandescent bulb rather than the blinding surface shine of the sun flashing across chrome.
We also talked over drinks about how Rider is starting to desire a bit of "strange" himself, and, as I've been telling him ever since we did that whole processing bit when Jasper came back around, I told him that if he wanted to dust off his OKC in search of FWB, that's totally fine with me. He said he wasn't sure he wanted to do that quite yet, but he did express interest in reactivating our Feeld app account to try to find some threesome action. I would be down for that, with a caveat that I'm feeling pretty dude-saturated so would only be into ladies for that stuff.
It's kinda odd, actually—when I picture what kind of threesome would be the most fun, it's mostly me watching Rider with a girl, and maybe interacting with the girl a bit and/or a bit of oral/manual on Rider, but little to no interest in the P in my own V in a threesome. It's kind of the opposite of how I used to feel, which was very interested in making sure I got enough of my own share of the fuck-time. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Shit changes and evolves, I guess.
Reverie
Active member
Well, dang. They are still making Jasper wait another week or two to find out whether he has the job. He says he PROBABLY does and that today's meeting went well, but still. They are really dragging this thing out and putting him through some paces! I really hope he gets it!
One thing I forgot to mention in my last couple of posts is how sweet it was that while we were out getting drinks Monday night, Jasper congratulated me on my marriage and toasted. Such a sweetie, that one.
One thing I forgot to mention in my last couple of posts is how sweet it was that while we were out getting drinks Monday night, Jasper congratulated me on my marriage and toasted.
Such a sweetie, that one.
Reverie
Active member
I was going to write a comprehensive post today about the wedding and honeymoon, but Rider and l have come down with a crud, so instead I had a hot toddy and an edible and am watching the new Bill Nye shows.
Unfortunately, before I realized I was getting sick, I also infected Jasper. So poly plague it is.
Everything is good though. Our show last night was good and I am overall super happy.
Unfortunately, before I realized I was getting sick, I also infected Jasper. So poly plague it is.
Everything is good though. Our show last night was good and I am overall super happy.
Reverie
Active member
I decided to make tomorrow a “me day,” opting out of the BBQ that Rider’s fan club friends are having. After the whirlwind of getting ready for the wedding, accomplishing the wedding, being out of the country for two weeks on honeymoon, and then getting sick the week I got back, I really need a day just to catch up on life stuff and then relax. I’m going to start going to Pilates again because I need to use my classes up before they expire, so I’ll do that tomorrow afternoon. And my bike chain needs cleaning and lubing so I can start riding to work again when I’m done coughing my brains out (nearly done, I think). And I’ll have time to post my comprehensive wedding/honeymoon post. And shop online for thank-you cards and photo printing. And finally put away the post-journey laundry that has been sitting, washed, in my suitcase for two weeks, haha. Basically do all the shit that has needed doing for two weeks that I have not had the gumption to get done.
With a bit less time to write today, instead of telling my epic journey yet, I’ll just list the most recent lovely mundanities.
Last Saturday I had a pretty active day. In the morning and afternoon, I did the climate march with my friend Elena. In the evening, my band played two sets at Perry’s house party. It was a super fun party!
Sunday I realized I was sick, so pretty much Sunday through Tuesday was pure laziness. I took Monday off of work because my throat was too sore to really talk. Tuesday I was back at work but still coughing my head off, ugh.
By Wednesday, I was feeling much better, and Rider and I had tickets to go see one of his favorite musicians at a venue I’d never been to. It was really awesome! The performer closed the set with a cover of one of my favorite bands, which was a real treat for me. It was also one of my dad’s favorite covers to perform back in the day.
Yesterday, I had a date with Jasper. He told me he got the job! Also that he is not really telling people yet until he signs something. But he told me I could tell Rider. We had a really nice time and were feeling celebratory so we had probably one more round of drinks out than we ought to have. It was super fun, though!
One really sweet thing that happened was that when we were walking back to his place, he grabbed my hand and was holding it. Since that’s something he’d told me in the past was particularly triggering to him and he didn’t like doing it, I asked him about it. He said that it was because he was drunk. And then paused, and said and also that it was because he trusts me. D’awww. And then he went on to explain the background of why it usually triggers him. I have to say, I am really liking this closer, more open version of him lately.
Maybe he finally gets that I am not trying to boyfriend him against his will, and that I will always do the best I can to respect his boundaries, as long as he can communicate them clearly to me so I know what they are. Honestly, I think he’s come a long way in terms of emotional stability in the months that I’ve known him. His therapy must be really helping him.
It’s funny—I was talking to Rider some day last week when we were out at sushi (I forget which day this was) about how I’m starting to warm up to the idea of full poly again. I made it clear that it’s just an idea that I’m turning over in my head, and not a promise of any sort. I was thinking about it in the context of Rider maybe wanting a FWB, and knowing that sometimes it’s hard to keep those things in their boxes, and how it might be easier for him to find someone if he’s available for more. But his first response was to ask me if it was that I thought that things were headed in that direction with Jasper. And that’s a reasonable question, but it was not at all the reason. When I told him the real reason, he looked like he melted a little bit.
Rider’s question was really not that far-fetched though. Now that Jasper is starting to emotionally stabilize some, I could see possibly getting to a point where I might be OK with trying to be in a relationship with him, if it were something that he wanted, which it still is not. I have never 100% ruled out the possibility of that as a “maybe someday if all the planets align” kind of thing. I really do love him. But I’m pretty sure the only reason we’ve been doing as well as we have is because that option is off the table. He has a ton of baggage around the concepts of poly relationships and, really, the idea of relationships in general. I suspect that even if he did think he’d gotten to a point where it might be OK to try that again, a lot of weirdness and swinging back and forth might re-enter the equation.
So we happily remain in this really awesome place of being friends. Friends who have incredibly hot sex and tell each other we love each other and fall asleep in each other’s arms and watch a show exclusively together and make out in public and sometimes, when the mood is just right, walk down the street holding hands. And as long as there are no labels and no expectations, it seems to work. It’s all of the fun of a relationship, but none of the freakout that the term seems to cause in him. I’ll take it! And if it ends tomorrow, well, so could anything.
Tonight, Rider and I are meeting up downtown with Oona, Toby, and possibly Constance. The plan is to get some Cinco de Mayo margaritas at our favorite Mexican bar, then possibly take the train to another part of town for a different bar Oona wanted to check out. My goal is to stay hydrated enough that I don’t hate myself too much for Pilates tomorrow. Wish me luck!
Sunday is gonna be the ren fair. So exciting!
With a bit less time to write today, instead of telling my epic journey yet, I’ll just list the most recent lovely mundanities.
Last Saturday I had a pretty active day. In the morning and afternoon, I did the climate march with my friend Elena. In the evening, my band played two sets at Perry’s house party. It was a super fun party!
Sunday I realized I was sick, so pretty much Sunday through Tuesday was pure laziness. I took Monday off of work because my throat was too sore to really talk. Tuesday I was back at work but still coughing my head off, ugh.
By Wednesday, I was feeling much better, and Rider and I had tickets to go see one of his favorite musicians at a venue I’d never been to. It was really awesome! The performer closed the set with a cover of one of my favorite bands, which was a real treat for me. It was also one of my dad’s favorite covers to perform back in the day.
Yesterday, I had a date with Jasper. He told me he got the job! Also that he is not really telling people yet until he signs something. But he told me I could tell Rider. We had a really nice time and were feeling celebratory so we had probably one more round of drinks out than we ought to have. It was super fun, though!
One really sweet thing that happened was that when we were walking back to his place, he grabbed my hand and was holding it. Since that’s something he’d told me in the past was particularly triggering to him and he didn’t like doing it, I asked him about it. He said that it was because he was drunk. And then paused, and said and also that it was because he trusts me. D’awww. And then he went on to explain the background of why it usually triggers him. I have to say, I am really liking this closer, more open version of him lately.
Maybe he finally gets that I am not trying to boyfriend him against his will, and that I will always do the best I can to respect his boundaries, as long as he can communicate them clearly to me so I know what they are. Honestly, I think he’s come a long way in terms of emotional stability in the months that I’ve known him. His therapy must be really helping him.
It’s funny—I was talking to Rider some day last week when we were out at sushi (I forget which day this was) about how I’m starting to warm up to the idea of full poly again. I made it clear that it’s just an idea that I’m turning over in my head, and not a promise of any sort. I was thinking about it in the context of Rider maybe wanting a FWB, and knowing that sometimes it’s hard to keep those things in their boxes, and how it might be easier for him to find someone if he’s available for more. But his first response was to ask me if it was that I thought that things were headed in that direction with Jasper. And that’s a reasonable question, but it was not at all the reason. When I told him the real reason, he looked like he melted a little bit.
Rider’s question was really not that far-fetched though. Now that Jasper is starting to emotionally stabilize some, I could see possibly getting to a point where I might be OK with trying to be in a relationship with him, if it were something that he wanted, which it still is not. I have never 100% ruled out the possibility of that as a “maybe someday if all the planets align” kind of thing. I really do love him. But I’m pretty sure the only reason we’ve been doing as well as we have is because that option is off the table. He has a ton of baggage around the concepts of poly relationships and, really, the idea of relationships in general. I suspect that even if he did think he’d gotten to a point where it might be OK to try that again, a lot of weirdness and swinging back and forth might re-enter the equation.
So we happily remain in this really awesome place of being friends. Friends who have incredibly hot sex and tell each other we love each other and fall asleep in each other’s arms and watch a show exclusively together and make out in public and sometimes, when the mood is just right, walk down the street holding hands. And as long as there are no labels and no expectations, it seems to work. It’s all of the fun of a relationship, but none of the freakout that the term seems to cause in him. I’ll take it! And if it ends tomorrow, well, so could anything.
Tonight, Rider and I are meeting up downtown with Oona, Toby, and possibly Constance. The plan is to get some Cinco de Mayo margaritas at our favorite Mexican bar, then possibly take the train to another part of town for a different bar Oona wanted to check out. My goal is to stay hydrated enough that I don’t hate myself too much for Pilates tomorrow. Wish me luck!
Sunday is gonna be the ren fair. So exciting!
Reverie
Active member
Nothing last weekend went as I planned, but not necessarily in a bad way. We partied it up for Cinco de Mayo with Oona and Toby and Constance and a couple of her friends. We ended up all after-partying at my place and, no, I did not make it to Pilates the next day.
In fact, Rider and I went to breakfast and then back to bed for sex, and after he left for his BBQ, I spent the entire rest of the day naked in bed watching stuff on my phone because I was too lazy even to go get my laptop. At some point, I had a couple Bloody Marys to take the edge off the hangover and was sexting with both Jasper and Reina (separately). I didn't put clothes on and leave the house again till it was time to find dinner. Obviously I still haven't found the time to post the rambling post about wedding things. I think the sheer length of it intimidates me. Maybe I will start with one day from that time period with each other post I do here.
Sunday, it was too thunderstormy to go to the ren fair. It freaking HAILED nearby. This is not a city known for its bad weather, so it was really surprising and we were glad we decided to stay in. We briefly ventured out for breakfast and a couple drinks, then came back and had sex using our new smotherbox and watched episodes of Sense8 till we fell asleep. Overall, it was a super, super lazy weekend.
Monday, I was supposed to get tacos after work with a chick friend I met through Jasper (I don't think I've named her here yet) but she canceled on me. Rider was out having a platonic catch-up date with Hannah because he's barely seen her since they broke up. I decided to read the entirety of Handmaid's Tale in one sitting on my Kindle in preparation for watching the show. When Rider got home, we had sex (lots of sex lately!) and we went to sleep a bit too late.
Tuesday was a Jasper night for me. I had Pilates and then I went to go see him. We had one of those very rare occurrences with simultaneous orgasm. I think the Pilates helped me to be able to come just by flexing and thinking about it while I was on top of him, and then his own spasm triggered mine. Neat trick. I'll have to see if I can manage that again sometime because, with him, less movement is usually better the first round. Then we watched our show and had sex again and I went home. Rider also wanted some sexual attention, so I helped him out while he touched himself. (So much sex lately!!)
Yesterday was kind of an unusual day. Rider and I had plans to try to beat the clock to sushi happy hour (it ends at 6:00 and we can make it there for the last 20 minutes if we leave work right at 5:00 and haul ass) and a couple hours before I was due to leave work Rider asks if he can talk to me about something.
I said sure but I don't have a ton of time, being at work. The issue at hand is that there is this chick coming to town who is an old (but never close) friend of his that he used to work with some time ago, like sometime between 5–12 years ago, I guess, based on where he worked at the time. He'd always had a crush on her but I guess was always partnered when they worked together.
So she's really good friends with Rider's wrestling-watching buddy who lives here, and it's the dude's birthday week, and she decided to come here to both get away from the town she lives in for a minute, and also to spend some time visiting with him near his birthday. She and Rider were chatting about this yesterday and she'd cracked some joke about looking for a one-night stand with a stranger while she's here because she hasn't gotten laid in a while. Rider being Rider decided to volunteer himself for the job, if she'd have him.
She seemed interested in the proposition but unsure of how the logistics would work, as she is only staying two nights in a hotel, Friday and Saturday, and she's not sure how free she'll be during the same times that Rider is free. So Rider came to me basically I guess expressing interest in doing this thing if he has the opportunity, and he wanted to know how I feel about it.
I told him that he can do whatever he wants as long as . . .
A) It doesn't interfere with the plans we already have that weekend. If he steamrolls over our Saturday day plans, which are to take care of our wedding thank-you stuff as a team (it's kind of the 11th hour for that, and we tried to do it last weekend but were too lazy), then he is letting the team down. Saturday night is fine, but if he gets torn up or stays out super late and is in poor form for our rescheduled ren fair slash chastity date on Sunday, I will be angry and hold a grudge for a while. I'm not trying to be a dick about it, but I know myself well enough to know that thems the emotional consequences of getting disappointed regarding something I've been looking forward to all year. It's the last day he and I can possibly go together because there's stuff all over the books for next weekend already.
and
B) He's willing to go back to barriers with me till he's tested negative if he does unprotected oral with her. (I know he'd never do unprotected PIV.) I have a responsibility to Jasper these days to make sure that I am not being risky, and having unprotected stuff with a partner who is having unprotected stuff during one-night encounters with acquaintances he hasn't seen in years would be too risky for me to be comfortable with, knowing that I bear that responsibility. (I'll also let Jasper know it happened, even with barriers in place, so he can make his own decision about whether or not he wants to add barriers back in himself.)
Rider said all of that sounded perfectly understandable, reasonable, and logical to him. He thanked me for being "cool" and honest. Then he yakked on for a while about how the possibility excited him, and I was feeling only mildly negative-to-neutral. Any negativity is just because, while I know without a doubt I can trust him on point B, I have a bit of residual distrust/PTSD around point-A stuff. But the only way to get past that will be to give him a chance to prove himself, and see what he does with it.
Even though it was years ago now, I can remember like it was literally yesterday how disrespected I would feel when he'd party super hard and/or stay up super late with his ex-Claire or Kelly to the point where he'd be tired and utterly ruined during the time we were to be spending together the next day. Especially when something is out of the ordinary, like his time with Kelly was, he tends to have a very "YOLO" type of attitude that causes him to live entirely in the moment with no thought to the piper he'll need to pay tomorrow.
Over time, I think I have helped teach him to be a little more respectful of my time by considering how his actions affect it, but it has been an uphill battle with lots of backsliding, and I'm never 100% sure what to be able to expect, especially in the rarity situations. And, as anyone who has been reading here over a length of time knows, my not knowing what to expect is the biggest trigger of trouble for me. I like my life to be carefully planned out and easily foreseen, to the degree that it can be.
The ideal thing would be if he just goes to see her after the metal show he's going to Friday night, since I'm doing an overnight with Jasper that night anyway, and I won't even be home for more than a few minutes till like 2:00 p.m. because I also have Pilates that afternoon and Jasper and I are supposed to do brunch when we wake up. He could stay out and sleep as late as he wants, and it doesn't matter how hungover Rider is while we write thank-you cards Saturday. Just don't mess with my ren fair.
Anyway, all of this may be for naught, as Rider woke up this morning feeling like he's getting sick again. He actually called out of work this morning, a rarity for him. If he's all snotty and goopy and contagious, she's likely not even to want to go through with it. I know *I* would not be sucking down somebody's germs a few days before I have to get on a cross-country flight. The ear troubles alone while flying sick are the worst physical torture I've ever been through.
In fact, Rider and I went to breakfast and then back to bed for sex, and after he left for his BBQ, I spent the entire rest of the day naked in bed watching stuff on my phone because I was too lazy even to go get my laptop. At some point, I had a couple Bloody Marys to take the edge off the hangover and was sexting with both Jasper and Reina (separately). I didn't put clothes on and leave the house again till it was time to find dinner. Obviously I still haven't found the time to post the rambling post about wedding things. I think the sheer length of it intimidates me. Maybe I will start with one day from that time period with each other post I do here.
Sunday, it was too thunderstormy to go to the ren fair. It freaking HAILED nearby. This is not a city known for its bad weather, so it was really surprising and we were glad we decided to stay in. We briefly ventured out for breakfast and a couple drinks, then came back and had sex using our new smotherbox and watched episodes of Sense8 till we fell asleep. Overall, it was a super, super lazy weekend.
Monday, I was supposed to get tacos after work with a chick friend I met through Jasper (I don't think I've named her here yet) but she canceled on me. Rider was out having a platonic catch-up date with Hannah because he's barely seen her since they broke up. I decided to read the entirety of Handmaid's Tale in one sitting on my Kindle in preparation for watching the show. When Rider got home, we had sex (lots of sex lately!) and we went to sleep a bit too late.
Tuesday was a Jasper night for me. I had Pilates and then I went to go see him. We had one of those very rare occurrences with simultaneous orgasm. I think the Pilates helped me to be able to come just by flexing and thinking about it while I was on top of him, and then his own spasm triggered mine. Neat trick. I'll have to see if I can manage that again sometime because, with him, less movement is usually better the first round. Then we watched our show and had sex again and I went home. Rider also wanted some sexual attention, so I helped him out while he touched himself. (So much sex lately!!)
Yesterday was kind of an unusual day. Rider and I had plans to try to beat the clock to sushi happy hour (it ends at 6:00 and we can make it there for the last 20 minutes if we leave work right at 5:00 and haul ass) and a couple hours before I was due to leave work Rider asks if he can talk to me about something.
I said sure but I don't have a ton of time, being at work. The issue at hand is that there is this chick coming to town who is an old (but never close) friend of his that he used to work with some time ago, like sometime between 5–12 years ago, I guess, based on where he worked at the time. He'd always had a crush on her but I guess was always partnered when they worked together.
So she's really good friends with Rider's wrestling-watching buddy who lives here, and it's the dude's birthday week, and she decided to come here to both get away from the town she lives in for a minute, and also to spend some time visiting with him near his birthday. She and Rider were chatting about this yesterday and she'd cracked some joke about looking for a one-night stand with a stranger while she's here because she hasn't gotten laid in a while. Rider being Rider decided to volunteer himself for the job, if she'd have him.
She seemed interested in the proposition but unsure of how the logistics would work, as she is only staying two nights in a hotel, Friday and Saturday, and she's not sure how free she'll be during the same times that Rider is free. So Rider came to me basically I guess expressing interest in doing this thing if he has the opportunity, and he wanted to know how I feel about it.
I told him that he can do whatever he wants as long as . . .
A) It doesn't interfere with the plans we already have that weekend. If he steamrolls over our Saturday day plans, which are to take care of our wedding thank-you stuff as a team (it's kind of the 11th hour for that, and we tried to do it last weekend but were too lazy), then he is letting the team down. Saturday night is fine, but if he gets torn up or stays out super late and is in poor form for our rescheduled ren fair slash chastity date on Sunday, I will be angry and hold a grudge for a while. I'm not trying to be a dick about it, but I know myself well enough to know that thems the emotional consequences of getting disappointed regarding something I've been looking forward to all year. It's the last day he and I can possibly go together because there's stuff all over the books for next weekend already.
and
B) He's willing to go back to barriers with me till he's tested negative if he does unprotected oral with her. (I know he'd never do unprotected PIV.) I have a responsibility to Jasper these days to make sure that I am not being risky, and having unprotected stuff with a partner who is having unprotected stuff during one-night encounters with acquaintances he hasn't seen in years would be too risky for me to be comfortable with, knowing that I bear that responsibility. (I'll also let Jasper know it happened, even with barriers in place, so he can make his own decision about whether or not he wants to add barriers back in himself.)
Rider said all of that sounded perfectly understandable, reasonable, and logical to him. He thanked me for being "cool" and honest. Then he yakked on for a while about how the possibility excited him, and I was feeling only mildly negative-to-neutral. Any negativity is just because, while I know without a doubt I can trust him on point B, I have a bit of residual distrust/PTSD around point-A stuff. But the only way to get past that will be to give him a chance to prove himself, and see what he does with it.
Even though it was years ago now, I can remember like it was literally yesterday how disrespected I would feel when he'd party super hard and/or stay up super late with his ex-Claire or Kelly to the point where he'd be tired and utterly ruined during the time we were to be spending together the next day. Especially when something is out of the ordinary, like his time with Kelly was, he tends to have a very "YOLO" type of attitude that causes him to live entirely in the moment with no thought to the piper he'll need to pay tomorrow.
Over time, I think I have helped teach him to be a little more respectful of my time by considering how his actions affect it, but it has been an uphill battle with lots of backsliding, and I'm never 100% sure what to be able to expect, especially in the rarity situations. And, as anyone who has been reading here over a length of time knows, my not knowing what to expect is the biggest trigger of trouble for me. I like my life to be carefully planned out and easily foreseen, to the degree that it can be.
The ideal thing would be if he just goes to see her after the metal show he's going to Friday night, since I'm doing an overnight with Jasper that night anyway, and I won't even be home for more than a few minutes till like 2:00 p.m. because I also have Pilates that afternoon and Jasper and I are supposed to do brunch when we wake up. He could stay out and sleep as late as he wants, and it doesn't matter how hungover Rider is while we write thank-you cards Saturday.
Just don't mess with my ren fair. Anyway, all of this may be for naught, as Rider woke up this morning feeling like he's getting sick again. He actually called out of work this morning, a rarity for him. If he's all snotty and goopy and contagious, she's likely not even to want to go through with it. I know *I* would not be sucking down somebody's germs a few days before I have to get on a cross-country flight. The ear troubles alone while flying sick are the worst physical torture I've ever been through.
Reverie
Active member
And now, as promised, the story of the first day of wedding/honeymoon time:
We left home on Friday, 4/7, and I think we actually managed not to forget anything. We stopped at the cheese shop on the way out of town and stocked up on stuff for our house-party cheese plate. The traffic was worse than we'd hoped, and we ended up on a weird detour because a friend had recommended something that we stop and see that turned out to be a goose chase. We didn't get into town until about two hours after we'd intended. When we got to our rental house, it was insanely windy! Like, so windy I could barely think straight to operate the lock box to get the key out. I'd been getting into a worse and worse mood as we got later and later past when we'd planned to be there, and the wind was not helping things. Finally we got inside and unloaded the stuff that needed to be in that house, the musical stuff and whatnot. The house was really nice, at least!
Then we had to head over to our own hotel room and unload. It was not as nice as the pictures had made it seem, but it was fine enough. Once all of our stuff was put away, we needed to go get party supplies for the house. But first! We needed to unwind from all of that stress with a glass of wine! So we stopped at the saloon and had a drink, then headed to the grocery store. We bought SO MUCH STUFF!
By the time we made it back to the house, Joel and Carrie had arrived. Then Rider's dad and stepmom came over from their hotel room. People started trickling in slowly. Eventually, when it got late enough and we had enough people, we headed back to the saloon for karaoke night. Many of us are great fans of karaoke, so we had an amazing time.
Meanwhile, while a group of us had been at karaoke, Perry's girlfriend, who had opted to stay behind, left! As in, decided she didn't want to be there anymore, and just packed up her stuff and split, leaving Perry and all his musical equipment three hours from home! I couldn't believe it! How can you just leave someone in the desert with no known ride home, and a ton of equipment? It was the stupidest thing, ugh. But that drama aside, it was a very nice night. The rest of that story—the actual wedding day—to be continued next time!
We left home on Friday, 4/7, and I think we actually managed not to forget anything. We stopped at the cheese shop on the way out of town and stocked up on stuff for our house-party cheese plate. The traffic was worse than we'd hoped, and we ended up on a weird detour because a friend had recommended something that we stop and see that turned out to be a goose chase. We didn't get into town until about two hours after we'd intended. When we got to our rental house, it was insanely windy! Like, so windy I could barely think straight to operate the lock box to get the key out. I'd been getting into a worse and worse mood as we got later and later past when we'd planned to be there, and the wind was not helping things. Finally we got inside and unloaded the stuff that needed to be in that house, the musical stuff and whatnot. The house was really nice, at least!
Then we had to head over to our own hotel room and unload. It was not as nice as the pictures had made it seem, but it was fine enough. Once all of our stuff was put away, we needed to go get party supplies for the house. But first! We needed to unwind from all of that stress with a glass of wine! So we stopped at the saloon and had a drink, then headed to the grocery store. We bought SO MUCH STUFF!
By the time we made it back to the house, Joel and Carrie had arrived. Then Rider's dad and stepmom came over from their hotel room. People started trickling in slowly. Eventually, when it got late enough and we had enough people, we headed back to the saloon for karaoke night. Many of us are great fans of karaoke, so we had an amazing time.
Meanwhile, while a group of us had been at karaoke, Perry's girlfriend, who had opted to stay behind, left! As in, decided she didn't want to be there anymore, and just packed up her stuff and split, leaving Perry and all his musical equipment three hours from home! I couldn't believe it! How can you just leave someone in the desert with no known ride home, and a ton of equipment? It was the stupidest thing, ugh. But that drama aside, it was a very nice night. The rest of that story—the actual wedding day—to be continued next time!
Reverie
Active member
Big news, you guys!
So I can't remember if I mentioned it here, but developers bought the entire block across the street from our apartment a while back (actually two blocks, because also the one on the other side of that) and for a month or two all the buildings were standing vacant, attracting vandalism and having overgrown lawns, and being generally unsightly.
Well, the day before we left for our wedding trip, they had erected a tall construction fence around both blocks, signaling that they were about to begin demo. Sure enough, when we got back from Europe, all that remained was a pile of rubble. Since then, they've been slowly clearing the debris, to varying noise levels. Just today, they had it down to a flat patch of dirt.
Rider and I were nervous about this whole thing. Not only do the crews start at 7:00 a.m. (and we usually don't wake up till 7:45, so a few times the noise has awakened us early), but what they are putting there is slated to be a 7-story condo building, pretty much guaranteeing the end of available parking in our neighborhood. Adding to that, now our block is going to be the last short block on our cross street. I feel like . . . this just means our block is next to be razed. All our block contains is some two-level apartment buildings, a couple of bungalows, and an old folks' home. None of these things seem particularly protected when the developers come a-knockin'.
Anyway.
Shortly after we got back, the second time we were awakened by the debris-clearing racket, I wondered aloud if we were going to have to leave our apartment. I decided to look to see what was available under our same management company and, to my surprise, there was an available apartment in our price range only six blocks away.
On a whim a couple of weekends ago, on our way back from Perry's after the show, I asked Rider to drive by it. As I peered through the gate, a neighbor sitting outside with his dogs offered to show it to us, explaining that it was left open.
Dude.
It was so much better than our current place! I mean, we have to buy a fridge for it (totally a thing around here), but the shape of the bedroom is better, the shape of the living room is better, it has a bit more space, there's more storage in the bathroom and . . . IT COMES WITH A PARKING SPACE! No more moving the car every few days for street sweeping. No more cruising around at the wrong time of day. No more having to pull around from down the street to load gear for practice or shows. We had to try to get it!
Well, we jumped through some hoops, and we're gonna have to shell out a chunk of money up front to make it happen, but today we found out we got it! They're only giving us ten days to move after we put in our deposit this weekend, so I'm going to be a ball of stress for the next little bit, but it is so worth it.
And the best part?
Rider told me that if we got it, I can get A KITTEN! I am so excited.
So, to recap, in the past six weeks, I've gotten a fat royalty check and a raise, gotten married and went on the most epic honeymoon I can imagine, and now we get to have a new apartment with a parking space, and I get a kitten! And things are going just great with both Rider and Jasper. Ahhhhh, I feel like the luckiest girl in the world! Man, hard work and planning really pay off sometimes!
So I can't remember if I mentioned it here, but developers bought the entire block across the street from our apartment a while back (actually two blocks, because also the one on the other side of that) and for a month or two all the buildings were standing vacant, attracting vandalism and having overgrown lawns, and being generally unsightly.
Well, the day before we left for our wedding trip, they had erected a tall construction fence around both blocks, signaling that they were about to begin demo. Sure enough, when we got back from Europe, all that remained was a pile of rubble. Since then, they've been slowly clearing the debris, to varying noise levels. Just today, they had it down to a flat patch of dirt.
Rider and I were nervous about this whole thing. Not only do the crews start at 7:00 a.m. (and we usually don't wake up till 7:45, so a few times the noise has awakened us early), but what they are putting there is slated to be a 7-story condo building, pretty much guaranteeing the end of available parking in our neighborhood. Adding to that, now our block is going to be the last short block on our cross street. I feel like . . . this just means our block is next to be razed. All our block contains is some two-level apartment buildings, a couple of bungalows, and an old folks' home. None of these things seem particularly protected when the developers come a-knockin'.
Anyway.
Shortly after we got back, the second time we were awakened by the debris-clearing racket, I wondered aloud if we were going to have to leave our apartment. I decided to look to see what was available under our same management company and, to my surprise, there was an available apartment in our price range only six blocks away.
On a whim a couple of weekends ago, on our way back from Perry's after the show, I asked Rider to drive by it. As I peered through the gate, a neighbor sitting outside with his dogs offered to show it to us, explaining that it was left open.
Dude.
It was so much better than our current place! I mean, we have to buy a fridge for it (totally a thing around here), but the shape of the bedroom is better, the shape of the living room is better, it has a bit more space, there's more storage in the bathroom and . . . IT COMES WITH A PARKING SPACE! No more moving the car every few days for street sweeping. No more cruising around at the wrong time of day. No more having to pull around from down the street to load gear for practice or shows. We had to try to get it!
Well, we jumped through some hoops, and we're gonna have to shell out a chunk of money up front to make it happen, but today we found out we got it! They're only giving us ten days to move after we put in our deposit this weekend, so I'm going to be a ball of stress for the next little bit, but it is so worth it.
And the best part?
Rider told me that if we got it, I can get A KITTEN! I am so excited.
So, to recap, in the past six weeks, I've gotten a fat royalty check and a raise, gotten married and went on the most epic honeymoon I can imagine, and now we get to have a new apartment with a parking space, and I get a kitten! And things are going just great with both Rider and Jasper. Ahhhhh, I feel like the luckiest girl in the world! Man, hard work and planning really pay off sometimes!
Reverie
Active member
Aaaand so of course as happy as I was last night, something stupid had to happen to disrupt my mood.
I was chit-chatting with Rider as I was getting ready and said something about when we see each other after work, and he got kind of a weird expression, so I asked, "We are seeing each other after work, right?" because we both have plans, but the bar I’m going to with Jasper doesn’t open till 8, and I figured the show he has tickets for also starts at 8 or later. We usually get home around 6, so unless he made plans right after work (which he usually tells me about), we'll see each other.
Anyway, so he asks me when I’m planning to see Jasper, and I said the earliest is ever 7 if he wants to do something before, but it probably won’t be till 8.
And then he was kind of hemming and hawing and sounding uncertain. I knew he was planning to try to see that girl tonight, but as far as I knew, it was AFTER the show. But I immediately felt like his hemming and hawing had something to do with her because he’s ONLY ever weird and not 100% straightforward when it has to do with a girl.
And so I just asked him, point-blank, "under what possible circumstances would we not see each other?" just wanting him to be out with whatever it was, and he thought for a second and just said since he has to come home to get ready, we definitely would see each other.
But that's not what I'd asked, not really. I was asking what circumstances he'd been considering. Something still wasn't right. So, still getting ready, I start probing around with some questions, and it turns out he is thinking about bailing on the concert, even though he has a ticket, to go spend time with this girl, and so apparently he was thinking of leaving early enough that we might not see each other, until I started asking about it.
But, like, WHY not just come out and say that? Why make me ask super pointed questions until I corner you?
I was also mildly irritated because I’d asked him a couple weeks ago about making plans for today because I had the show on the calendar for him with a question mark, and he said no, we can't do anything, he was DEFINITELY going; he had tickets and everything. So I made plans with Jasper instead. But apparently "definitely" doesn’t apply to a chick he might get to sleep with, only to the person he sees every day. But I’m willing to let that go because I understand the pull of a rarer occasion, even though it irritates me and makes me feel a little "chopped liver." Overall, that’s just a pebble in the shoe. The other thing is completely infuriating.
THIS is the kind of stuff that makes me upset every time he is getting with someone. Because it changes him. It makes him weird and cagey and undependable, and I don’t like it. I fully believe that in any other situation he would have just told me the possibilities that were crossing his mind—because he always does—but because it’s a chick, he’s being weird. He’s pretty predictable, in a good way, most of the time, unless a chick is involved, and suddenly there is a dogged pursuit thing that happens that . . . just . . . changes him.
And if I ask you "under what possible circumstances" in that literal wording, and you don’t just come out with what possible circumstances you were considering, that, in my opinion, is halfway to a lie.
I dunno, do you guys think I’m being unreasonable in thinking that, or would that piss you off too?
I explained to him at the end that THIS is the kind of stuff that makes me feel jealous when it comes to him being with other people—when I see his behavior change and he starts to act weird and change plans.
I’m almost always fine when he can just be his dependable, trustworthy, straightforward self, but something about getting with other chicks makes him act in ways that make me feel like he can’t be depended upon to do what he normally does or to be straightforward. And that makes me feel like the ground is falling out from under me and THAT makes me jealous—that ground-falling "who is this person who isn't acting like the person I know" feeling makes me feel literally insecure, like the life I live is shaky, and feeling insecure makes me jealous.
But when he heard mention of the word "jealous," he literally rolled his eyes and threw up his hands and stormed away a second, as if it were my emotion that was the problem instead of him provoking me by being evasive.
He doesn’t think he was being evasive. His excuse was that he "was gonna tell me when he knew the plan" but that’s not what I asked. I asked what "possible circumstances" meaning I was asking specifically for what he was considering and what the options were, and he evaded me. I fully, absolutely believe that if he'd just been considering, say, meeting Constance, who is a platonic friend, out for happy hour drinks after work, and that's why he might not see me before I go out, he'd have just told me outright. Why does weirdness have to come into the picture the moment access to a vagina is involved? Why can’t he understand that if the only time he does stuff like that is due to a chick, then yes, it looks evasive. That’s how I *KNEW* it had something to do with her, when he got evasive. How else would I have known, been right?
I am always, always 100% straightforward with him, ESPECIALLY when it is something that might involve another person. Like, Beckett told me a couple weeks ago that he might be here for a couple weeks in June (don't think I mentioned that here), and I told Rider immediately about it. Could I have waited till it was definite? Till I “knew the plan”? Sure! But I didn’t. Even though I knew Rider was gonna grumble about it. And he did. But I was honest the minute I considered something that involved another person that might affect him in some way. And I always do.
And then to literally roll his eyes at me when I explain that this is the kind of behavior that makes me feel bad and struggle—that is just so unkind! I didn't ask him to change his plans. I just told him how I felt, and why. I wasn’t yelling. I wasn’t even crying. I was admitting to a bad feeling and I was met with anything but compassion. When I’m hangry or sad or grumpy or frustrated, he’s sweet and patient and kind. Even when I’m (rarely, it almost never happens) irritated at something thoughtless he’s done, he’s apologetic and sweet and solicitous instead of being snappish back. But when I admit that when his behavior and communication changes due to some other chick being in the picture, the negative emotion that evokes is jealousy, suddenly he has no patience for me and no desire to work toward seeing how he might have helped cause it, only defensiveness.
I could understand if I tried to tell him “no you can’t do the thing—you’ve ruined your chance now.” But that is not what happened.
I’m not gonna let this ruin my day at work or my night with Jasper, but I am NOT happy with Rider right now. And if he wants to keep the level of openness that we do have, that we renegotiated, I am somehow going to have to drill it into his head that being weird and evasive is the type of thing that makes me nervous and upsets me. If he could just act normal about shit, we would have so many fewer of these problems!
I think that . . . it seems super obvious to me that two really easy ways to make your partner upset and feel devalued in an open relationship, thus causing jealousy, are:
1. to not be completely forthcoming about the options you're considering
2. to roll your eyes when they tell you directly that #1 is a source of jealousy
You'd think he would have learned by now that putting on a little show of exasperation is NOT the way to lovingly handle a partner who is explaining a negative emotion and explaining why it happened. Alas.
I was chit-chatting with Rider as I was getting ready and said something about when we see each other after work, and he got kind of a weird expression, so I asked, "We are seeing each other after work, right?" because we both have plans, but the bar I’m going to with Jasper doesn’t open till 8, and I figured the show he has tickets for also starts at 8 or later. We usually get home around 6, so unless he made plans right after work (which he usually tells me about), we'll see each other.
Anyway, so he asks me when I’m planning to see Jasper, and I said the earliest is ever 7 if he wants to do something before, but it probably won’t be till 8.
And then he was kind of hemming and hawing and sounding uncertain. I knew he was planning to try to see that girl tonight, but as far as I knew, it was AFTER the show. But I immediately felt like his hemming and hawing had something to do with her because he’s ONLY ever weird and not 100% straightforward when it has to do with a girl.
And so I just asked him, point-blank, "under what possible circumstances would we not see each other?" just wanting him to be out with whatever it was, and he thought for a second and just said since he has to come home to get ready, we definitely would see each other.
But that's not what I'd asked, not really. I was asking what circumstances he'd been considering. Something still wasn't right. So, still getting ready, I start probing around with some questions, and it turns out he is thinking about bailing on the concert, even though he has a ticket, to go spend time with this girl, and so apparently he was thinking of leaving early enough that we might not see each other, until I started asking about it.
But, like, WHY not just come out and say that? Why make me ask super pointed questions until I corner you?
I was also mildly irritated because I’d asked him a couple weeks ago about making plans for today because I had the show on the calendar for him with a question mark, and he said no, we can't do anything, he was DEFINITELY going; he had tickets and everything. So I made plans with Jasper instead. But apparently "definitely" doesn’t apply to a chick he might get to sleep with, only to the person he sees every day. But I’m willing to let that go because I understand the pull of a rarer occasion, even though it irritates me and makes me feel a little "chopped liver." Overall, that’s just a pebble in the shoe. The other thing is completely infuriating.
THIS is the kind of stuff that makes me upset every time he is getting with someone. Because it changes him. It makes him weird and cagey and undependable, and I don’t like it. I fully believe that in any other situation he would have just told me the possibilities that were crossing his mind—because he always does—but because it’s a chick, he’s being weird. He’s pretty predictable, in a good way, most of the time, unless a chick is involved, and suddenly there is a dogged pursuit thing that happens that . . . just . . . changes him.
And if I ask you "under what possible circumstances" in that literal wording, and you don’t just come out with what possible circumstances you were considering, that, in my opinion, is halfway to a lie.
I dunno, do you guys think I’m being unreasonable in thinking that, or would that piss you off too?
I explained to him at the end that THIS is the kind of stuff that makes me feel jealous when it comes to him being with other people—when I see his behavior change and he starts to act weird and change plans.
I’m almost always fine when he can just be his dependable, trustworthy, straightforward self, but something about getting with other chicks makes him act in ways that make me feel like he can’t be depended upon to do what he normally does or to be straightforward. And that makes me feel like the ground is falling out from under me and THAT makes me jealous—that ground-falling "who is this person who isn't acting like the person I know" feeling makes me feel literally insecure, like the life I live is shaky, and feeling insecure makes me jealous.
But when he heard mention of the word "jealous," he literally rolled his eyes and threw up his hands and stormed away a second, as if it were my emotion that was the problem instead of him provoking me by being evasive.
He doesn’t think he was being evasive. His excuse was that he "was gonna tell me when he knew the plan" but that’s not what I asked. I asked what "possible circumstances" meaning I was asking specifically for what he was considering and what the options were, and he evaded me. I fully, absolutely believe that if he'd just been considering, say, meeting Constance, who is a platonic friend, out for happy hour drinks after work, and that's why he might not see me before I go out, he'd have just told me outright. Why does weirdness have to come into the picture the moment access to a vagina is involved? Why can’t he understand that if the only time he does stuff like that is due to a chick, then yes, it looks evasive. That’s how I *KNEW* it had something to do with her, when he got evasive. How else would I have known, been right?
I am always, always 100% straightforward with him, ESPECIALLY when it is something that might involve another person. Like, Beckett told me a couple weeks ago that he might be here for a couple weeks in June (don't think I mentioned that here), and I told Rider immediately about it. Could I have waited till it was definite? Till I “knew the plan”? Sure! But I didn’t. Even though I knew Rider was gonna grumble about it. And he did. But I was honest the minute I considered something that involved another person that might affect him in some way. And I always do.
And then to literally roll his eyes at me when I explain that this is the kind of behavior that makes me feel bad and struggle—that is just so unkind! I didn't ask him to change his plans. I just told him how I felt, and why. I wasn’t yelling. I wasn’t even crying. I was admitting to a bad feeling and I was met with anything but compassion. When I’m hangry or sad or grumpy or frustrated, he’s sweet and patient and kind. Even when I’m (rarely, it almost never happens) irritated at something thoughtless he’s done, he’s apologetic and sweet and solicitous instead of being snappish back. But when I admit that when his behavior and communication changes due to some other chick being in the picture, the negative emotion that evokes is jealousy, suddenly he has no patience for me and no desire to work toward seeing how he might have helped cause it, only defensiveness.
I could understand if I tried to tell him “no you can’t do the thing—you’ve ruined your chance now.” But that is not what happened.
I’m not gonna let this ruin my day at work or my night with Jasper, but I am NOT happy with Rider right now. And if he wants to keep the level of openness that we do have, that we renegotiated, I am somehow going to have to drill it into his head that being weird and evasive is the type of thing that makes me nervous and upsets me. If he could just act normal about shit, we would have so many fewer of these problems!
I think that . . . it seems super obvious to me that two really easy ways to make your partner upset and feel devalued in an open relationship, thus causing jealousy, are:
1. to not be completely forthcoming about the options you're considering
2. to roll your eyes when they tell you directly that #1 is a source of jealousy
You'd think he would have learned by now that putting on a little show of exasperation is NOT the way to lovingly handle a partner who is explaining a negative emotion and explaining why it happened. Alas.
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PinkPig
Well-known member
I do understand why you'd be frustrated. Blue would do the evasiveness, too, when it came to possible, but uncertain plans with another woman. He also did the changing plans that were definite (like the show) for another woman. That didn't really bother me, but the evasiveness did.
In Rider's case, I get that it's different from how he acts in all other areas...but it's consistent for this one area. I think it may help with the irritation/jealousy if you change your perspective from focusing on it being different from usual to thinking of it as consistent for new girl/relationship. Then, maybe it won't feel so much like he's doing it to you as that this is how he usually acts in this one area. It's a subtle difference, but maybe it will help? I do think this could be a learned habit from his time with Claire (wasn't that more DADT?)
Another thing that may help is instead of questioning him indirectly to try to get him to answer, maybe you just directly ask: "Are you considering seeing girl X during that time, is that why we may not see each other?" In my experience, asking direct questions reduces my frustration level and increases the chances I'll get a direct answer back. If he's still being evasive, maybe just ask him directly "why are you being so evasive?"
I honestly think it could be a bit of conditioning from past relationships and past responses. In Blue's case, it was conditioning. He got better about it over time. He doesn't do it all anymore...but that may also be because we're not partners anymore, just friends.
Congrats on the apartment
In Rider's case, I get that it's different from how he acts in all other areas...but it's consistent for this one area. I think it may help with the irritation/jealousy if you change your perspective from focusing on it being different from usual to thinking of it as consistent for new girl/relationship. Then, maybe it won't feel so much like he's doing it to you as that this is how he usually acts in this one area. It's a subtle difference, but maybe it will help? I do think this could be a learned habit from his time with Claire (wasn't that more DADT?)
Another thing that may help is instead of questioning him indirectly to try to get him to answer, maybe you just directly ask: "Are you considering seeing girl X during that time, is that why we may not see each other?" In my experience, asking direct questions reduces my frustration level and increases the chances I'll get a direct answer back. If he's still being evasive, maybe just ask him directly "why are you being so evasive?"
I honestly think it could be a bit of conditioning from past relationships and past responses. In Blue's case, it was conditioning. He got better about it over time. He doesn't do it all anymore...but that may also be because we're not partners anymore, just friends.
Congrats on the apartment
breathemusic
Active member
Congrats on the apartment AND THE FUTURE KITTEN!! YAY!!
Also, I'd have to agree with PinkPig on this one. I definitely think that behavior would be annoying and would push my buttons.... but I think a helpful way to avoid it would just be asking him those more direct questions. Otherwise, he might feel like he's being tested, which could be triggering his experiences from past relationships and lead to the dodgy behavior. I'm not excusing the evasiveness, just saying that there might be a reason and a way to address it/improve it.
Another thing that might help with the frustration and ager is to consider... if he would have possibly made other plans to see a friend and would have missed seeing you and you wouldn't have cared, then should it matter if he's going to miss seeing you after work because of a possible chance for a hook up? I hear what you're saying that he was adamant that he couldn't make other plans before because he had tickets, but what you said about the way people will make a sacrifice for more rare opportunities is true. I don't think that him being willing to ditch the concert for her and not for plans with you isn't meant to indicate that you're "chopped liver." Only that you guys already live together and you can make plans all the time, where as the chance to do some other much more rare thing is harder to come by, so the value of that (not based on the person, but based on the scarcity of opportunity) is more than the concert ticket. I know that was more just the pebble in the shoe part, but I figured maybe some reassuring words that I'm sure he doesn't think you less worthy of plan changes might help!
Also, I'd have to agree with PinkPig on this one. I definitely think that behavior would be annoying and would push my buttons.... but I think a helpful way to avoid it would just be asking him those more direct questions. Otherwise, he might feel like he's being tested, which could be triggering his experiences from past relationships and lead to the dodgy behavior. I'm not excusing the evasiveness, just saying that there might be a reason and a way to address it/improve it.
Another thing that might help with the frustration and ager is to consider... if he would have possibly made other plans to see a friend and would have missed seeing you and you wouldn't have cared, then should it matter if he's going to miss seeing you after work because of a possible chance for a hook up? I hear what you're saying that he was adamant that he couldn't make other plans before because he had tickets, but what you said about the way people will make a sacrifice for more rare opportunities is true. I don't think that him being willing to ditch the concert for her and not for plans with you isn't meant to indicate that you're "chopped liver." Only that you guys already live together and you can make plans all the time, where as the chance to do some other much more rare thing is harder to come by, so the value of that (not based on the person, but based on the scarcity of opportunity) is more than the concert ticket. I know that was more just the pebble in the shoe part, but I figured maybe some reassuring words that I'm sure he doesn't think you less worthy of plan changes might help!
Spork
Active member
Just a thought here too...maybe you could take this idea and bounce it off of Rider? See if it goes anywhere?
It has been my experience that sometimes we treat others the way we want to be treated, and not maybe the way that THEY need to be treated, and we then build a case of "I'm right, right?" and that we have been wronged...when actually we just got the treatment that would have worked best for somebody who isn't us.
Like the love language stuff, ok? You're giving gifts and it doesn't matter because they are a touch person, they keep touching you and it's annoying because you're a gifts person, whatever.
What tipped me off to thinking about this, was when you said that telling Rider about the whole Beckett maybe coming thing made him grumble. OK, so he grumbled. And then he got dodgy and weird and uncomfortable in being entirely forthcoming with you about his plans, because vagina. And then when the truth of the situation was on the table, you mentioned jealousy. So he's maybe thinking that if it were him, he'd either feel happier not knowing, or not knowing details, or not knowing if the plan is not solid...something...and then when he overcomes the discomfort of handing you treatment that HE would not appreciate, and he does it, then you flash a negative response, a red "JEALOUSY" light. Now he feels punished for having reluctantly given you the truth. In more basic terms...and using only emotional language, not reason, that's the emotion-scene I picture.
And I wonder if there is anything to that?
I mean, I could be utterly totally off base. Just more possibilities to consider or discard, is all.
Also, to compound that, is the problem that in the past, when you have had discomforts about the poly situation (before, it was imbalance, remember?) there was talk of "let's not poly anymore maybe." Has he brought the "maybe mono" card to you, or are you the only one who has done that?
Maybe be careful that he is not feeling a little bullied. It sounds to me like you have an easier time talking about your feelings than he does. Even to the point of making cases for right and wrong...when instead there may only be different perspectives.
It has been my experience that sometimes we treat others the way we want to be treated, and not maybe the way that THEY need to be treated, and we then build a case of "I'm right, right?" and that we have been wronged...when actually we just got the treatment that would have worked best for somebody who isn't us.
Like the love language stuff, ok? You're giving gifts and it doesn't matter because they are a touch person, they keep touching you and it's annoying because you're a gifts person, whatever.
What tipped me off to thinking about this, was when you said that telling Rider about the whole Beckett maybe coming thing made him grumble. OK, so he grumbled. And then he got dodgy and weird and uncomfortable in being entirely forthcoming with you about his plans, because vagina. And then when the truth of the situation was on the table, you mentioned jealousy. So he's maybe thinking that if it were him, he'd either feel happier not knowing, or not knowing details, or not knowing if the plan is not solid...something...and then when he overcomes the discomfort of handing you treatment that HE would not appreciate, and he does it, then you flash a negative response, a red "JEALOUSY" light. Now he feels punished for having reluctantly given you the truth. In more basic terms...and using only emotional language, not reason, that's the emotion-scene I picture.
And I wonder if there is anything to that?
I mean, I could be utterly totally off base. Just more possibilities to consider or discard, is all.
Also, to compound that, is the problem that in the past, when you have had discomforts about the poly situation (before, it was imbalance, remember?) there was talk of "let's not poly anymore maybe." Has he brought the "maybe mono" card to you, or are you the only one who has done that?
Maybe be careful that he is not feeling a little bullied. It sounds to me like you have an easier time talking about your feelings than he does. Even to the point of making cases for right and wrong...when instead there may only be different perspectives.
Reverie
Active member
Thanks for the replies.
PinkPig, I'm glad to know that I'm not alone in having experienced this.
After reading your post, I tossed the "learned habit" thing at him. Yes, that was DADT with her, though he usually shared plenty with me about her.
breathemusic, I was actually open to the answer to "we're seeing each other after work" being "no," because it sometimes is. Sometimes he grabs happy hour with people, etc., so I just wanted to find out so that I knew what to expect, so I asked, because if I know he's not going to be home, sometimes I stay a little later at work. If he'd just answered the stupid question without getting cagey, I wouldn't have cared. Platonic vs. hookup only matters in that he gets cagey about the hookup and not about platonic friends!
I actually thought about the more direct question thing on my own afterward—maybe I should have just asked—but I was trying to not be, like, jumping to conclusions verbally and trying to give him space to answer on his own. Which he then did not do without more questions, so . . . I guess maybe just more direct there would have been better.
We've been chatting about it this morning, and he apologized both for the evasiveness and for behaving badly during the conversation. He said when I caught the evasion in the moment and asked him if he'd just lied to me, it put him on the defensive. He didn't feel like he was lying, just that he didn't want to go into the fact that he was thinking about skipping the show, since he hadn't talked to her about it yet.
He also confessed to me that when I ask him what his plans are for a time we're scheduled not to be together, it frustrates him because it makes him feel less autonomous. Which boggled my mind because we have ALWAYS talked about what our plans are, and I feel like it's just keeping in touch with each other's lives and being conversational. I'm not trying to influence him by asking, and "I don't know" is always an acceptable answer, as long as it's the truth. Added to that, it's not only me doing the asking!
Just last night, he asked me what Jasper and I had planned tonight. I told him the exact truth as I knew it, even though it was uncertain: "We're starting at this one bar—I know you've heard of it but I don't think been there—and then I'm not really sure after that. We'd tossed around the idea of going to a sex toy store, but that's not definite. We'll have some kind of adventure night, then back to his place, and, if things go well, breakfast tomorrow. Then I'll be home in time for Pilates at 1:00."
I didn't think anything was odd about his asking. I didn't have any hesitations or reservations in answering, including the parts that I didn't know. I'm not sure why, for him, just answering questions about plans feels limiting, and yet, he doesn't mind asking the same of me.
PinkPig, I'm glad to know that I'm not alone in having experienced this.
After reading your post, I tossed the "learned habit" thing at him. Yes, that was DADT with her, though he usually shared plenty with me about her.
breathemusic, I was actually open to the answer to "we're seeing each other after work" being "no," because it sometimes is. Sometimes he grabs happy hour with people, etc., so I just wanted to find out so that I knew what to expect, so I asked, because if I know he's not going to be home, sometimes I stay a little later at work. If he'd just answered the stupid question without getting cagey, I wouldn't have cared. Platonic vs. hookup only matters in that he gets cagey about the hookup and not about platonic friends!
I actually thought about the more direct question thing on my own afterward—maybe I should have just asked—but I was trying to not be, like, jumping to conclusions verbally and trying to give him space to answer on his own. Which he then did not do without more questions, so . . . I guess maybe just more direct there would have been better.
We've been chatting about it this morning, and he apologized both for the evasiveness and for behaving badly during the conversation. He said when I caught the evasion in the moment and asked him if he'd just lied to me, it put him on the defensive. He didn't feel like he was lying, just that he didn't want to go into the fact that he was thinking about skipping the show, since he hadn't talked to her about it yet.
He also confessed to me that when I ask him what his plans are for a time we're scheduled not to be together, it frustrates him because it makes him feel less autonomous. Which boggled my mind because we have ALWAYS talked about what our plans are, and I feel like it's just keeping in touch with each other's lives and being conversational. I'm not trying to influence him by asking, and "I don't know" is always an acceptable answer, as long as it's the truth. Added to that, it's not only me doing the asking!
Just last night, he asked me what Jasper and I had planned tonight. I told him the exact truth as I knew it, even though it was uncertain: "We're starting at this one bar—I know you've heard of it but I don't think been there—and then I'm not really sure after that. We'd tossed around the idea of going to a sex toy store, but that's not definite. We'll have some kind of adventure night, then back to his place, and, if things go well, breakfast tomorrow. Then I'll be home in time for Pilates at 1:00."
I didn't think anything was odd about his asking. I didn't have any hesitations or reservations in answering, including the parts that I didn't know. I'm not sure why, for him, just answering questions about plans feels limiting, and yet, he doesn't mind asking the same of me.