The story of Spork.
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Spork
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My older son is heinously lazy and unmotivated. He was supposed to get his learner's permit this summer, and he hasn't done much studying for that, and he was supposed to get a summer job, and he didn't do that.
I hate to say it, but this is why he kind of needs to live with his Dad. As much as his Dad is a nut, the fact is, I am not good at "motivation by consequence." I'm no good at being an asshole basically. And Ninja only really responds to that. He needs the kick in the butt that I can't give him.
My younger son, Q, however, is chock full of ambition. We went to businesses in our area, he wanted a job, but no one would hire a 14 year old. Some will be willing to employ him once he is 15.
And he wants to contribute money to the household...but I hate to take his money at all. I kind of want him to save any money he can earn for his own future, because I can't afford to put a lot of resources into getting either of them started as young adults. Fortunately we did allocate Old Wolf's post-911 GI Bill to the boys, so each of them does have a year and a half of free college with a check for living expenses, assuming the government doesn't flake on it with some budget cut or something.
One good thing is, over the years I accumulated a LOT of GWAR memorabilia. And much of it is worth money to the right people, and I know the right people. So when things get tight, I sell off some of my collection and it keeps our heads above water.
I cannot get a job making more than what I do, unless I finish my degree, and I don't really want to finish my degree because I don't want more debt, and because I don't want to be in accounting/auditing for more than the next 5 years or so. I don't love this line of work, even though it pays. One day I want to work with my hands...building, making, creating...I have the ideas and the talent and the network and market for my work. But I'm not comfortable taking on that kind of risk until my sons are adults.
So I'm kind of hanging in there where I'm at, hopefully until then...which is just under 4 years from now...
Spork
Active member
Girl from Texlahoma made me think a bit, reading a bit of her blog...I feel a generalized sympathy for her recent plight, but if I'm going to go into "me stuff" I'm going to do it here.
I developed things with Zen simply to fit a single sexual need that wasn't there in my quad. A sadist for my masochist, someone who would take charge in bed and do things...sometimes cruel things...to me, and get as much fulfillment from it as I did. Not someone who was playing a part, but someone who, at the core, fit with that piece of my puzzle naturally.
Then more and more areas of "perfect fit" came to light. The feelings blazed up. Along with them, along with the bright light of joy and happiness in this, has come a shadow of guilt... My quad are lovely people. They are also good and worthwhile and worthy of my highest regard. I think something I dread the most or worry about the most, in doing that thing we do of fussing over other people's emotions (I'm hearing a GalaGirl voice in my head, here, "could let them manage their own feelings" lol)... I don't want them to feel like I chose to feel this way for Zen over them, that they were not deserving of it or that they are...less?...in my eyes.
They ARE amazing human beings.
They DESERVE all the love in the world.
My "bonfire" of feelings is not a ribbon given to the winner of a competition. I can't for the life of me pin down why I feel it for some and not others. I really cannot. I look at all of them in the past and there isn't a common theme. I certainly didn't sit in judgment and tally up points. Why it is that Analyst is great, and Hefe is great, and Fire is great, but Zen has soaked into my soul like rain in the desert...I don't have an answer for that.
And when I step back and set aside emotions and worries about them, and simply look at logistics, I think it is NOT A BAD THING. Because this kind of intensity requires a certain amount of maintenance. Without it, insecurities come a-nibbling. I do my best to manage my neediness, but Zen is the only one not just physically but EMOTIONALLY available enough to give me what I need, in the state I get when I'm in love. If I felt this way for Analyst, I'd have a lot of difficulty coping with his somewhat platonic behavior on certain occasions, or his prickly defensiveness about certain topics. If I felt this way about Fire, I'd be miserable at my failure to be a good sexual match for her. If I felt this way about Hefe, I think some part of me might be fussy about getting in too deep with another woman's husband, despite how poly all of us are. Not to mention the kind of schedules and obligations that Fire and Hefe also have. Hell. I might even have some sort of jealousy over Fire, if I were crazy feelsy over Hefe. She's every kind of beautiful I always wished I had, but my body type will never allow me to be. Not having the insanity of "big feels" mucking up those relationships let me be relatively cool and froody about things.
The things I crave most from them are quality friend time. The kind of energy we also share with a few other friends. I feel like I'd rather be a dear friend who does that role well, than a girlfriend who isn't pulling her own relationship-weight, and can only muster a half-assed approach to the whole thing.
As for Zen and the notion of escalation...dreaming of possibilities and wondering about options...
The fact is, I am on my own in my apartment at MINIMUM until late March of next year (lease obligation.) Nothing changes before then. I signed on to the concept of "solo poly" as a good expression of the fact that I feel the need to stand in my own space and strengthen and heal my own world, for a while, after getting out of the marriage I was in. Conceptually, I feel like whole adults make for healthier partnerships, than dependent ones who cannot manage their own lives on their own, which I've never really had to do. Zen has stood on his own for a long time. I don't know if he's ready to partner up (in life ways), but I do not feel that he's SO needful of a speedy entanglement that he will feel that our relationship is lacking, without it.
In fact there might be very good reasons for him to keep right on living where he's at on his own, especially if he's on a month-to-month lease. He might have to go take care of his father, at any time. So there is only so much he can truly commit to, a fact I'm fully aware and respectful of.
I'm just kicking around ideas here. It is not accurate to say that I am making PLANS. I am doing no such thing. But life tends to reward those who at least recognize opportunities that might exist...so I look for them and file 'em away. I think/hope/believe that Zen and I have a pretty promising potential future to our relationship. And I think that one day it would be pretty damn neat if we could both benefit by way of an improvement in our living conditions, from all of this.
We'll see!
Meanwhile, there IS another way I can improve my financial lot as it presently stands...and it involves looking at my calendar, managing my time better, and making some art to sell. A thing I keep meaning and meaning to do. I need to figure out and set up a good work space and really make it happen, though. I saw some very cool art not long ago while out on the town with Zen, we visited a gallery that was full of awesome and inspiring things. And I have a pretty good potential market...
I developed things with Zen simply to fit a single sexual need that wasn't there in my quad. A sadist for my masochist, someone who would take charge in bed and do things...sometimes cruel things...to me, and get as much fulfillment from it as I did. Not someone who was playing a part, but someone who, at the core, fit with that piece of my puzzle naturally.
Then more and more areas of "perfect fit" came to light. The feelings blazed up. Along with them, along with the bright light of joy and happiness in this, has come a shadow of guilt... My quad are lovely people. They are also good and worthwhile and worthy of my highest regard. I think something I dread the most or worry about the most, in doing that thing we do of fussing over other people's emotions (I'm hearing a GalaGirl voice in my head, here, "could let them manage their own feelings" lol)... I don't want them to feel like I chose to feel this way for Zen over them, that they were not deserving of it or that they are...less?...in my eyes.
They ARE amazing human beings.
They DESERVE all the love in the world.
My "bonfire" of feelings is not a ribbon given to the winner of a competition. I can't for the life of me pin down why I feel it for some and not others. I really cannot. I look at all of them in the past and there isn't a common theme. I certainly didn't sit in judgment and tally up points. Why it is that Analyst is great, and Hefe is great, and Fire is great, but Zen has soaked into my soul like rain in the desert...I don't have an answer for that.
And when I step back and set aside emotions and worries about them, and simply look at logistics, I think it is NOT A BAD THING. Because this kind of intensity requires a certain amount of maintenance. Without it, insecurities come a-nibbling. I do my best to manage my neediness, but Zen is the only one not just physically but EMOTIONALLY available enough to give me what I need, in the state I get when I'm in love. If I felt this way for Analyst, I'd have a lot of difficulty coping with his somewhat platonic behavior on certain occasions, or his prickly defensiveness about certain topics. If I felt this way about Fire, I'd be miserable at my failure to be a good sexual match for her. If I felt this way about Hefe, I think some part of me might be fussy about getting in too deep with another woman's husband, despite how poly all of us are. Not to mention the kind of schedules and obligations that Fire and Hefe also have. Hell. I might even have some sort of jealousy over Fire, if I were crazy feelsy over Hefe. She's every kind of beautiful I always wished I had, but my body type will never allow me to be. Not having the insanity of "big feels" mucking up those relationships let me be relatively cool and froody about things.
The things I crave most from them are quality friend time. The kind of energy we also share with a few other friends. I feel like I'd rather be a dear friend who does that role well, than a girlfriend who isn't pulling her own relationship-weight, and can only muster a half-assed approach to the whole thing.
As for Zen and the notion of escalation...dreaming of possibilities and wondering about options...
The fact is, I am on my own in my apartment at MINIMUM until late March of next year (lease obligation.) Nothing changes before then. I signed on to the concept of "solo poly" as a good expression of the fact that I feel the need to stand in my own space and strengthen and heal my own world, for a while, after getting out of the marriage I was in. Conceptually, I feel like whole adults make for healthier partnerships, than dependent ones who cannot manage their own lives on their own, which I've never really had to do. Zen has stood on his own for a long time. I don't know if he's ready to partner up (in life ways), but I do not feel that he's SO needful of a speedy entanglement that he will feel that our relationship is lacking, without it.
In fact there might be very good reasons for him to keep right on living where he's at on his own, especially if he's on a month-to-month lease. He might have to go take care of his father, at any time. So there is only so much he can truly commit to, a fact I'm fully aware and respectful of.
I'm just kicking around ideas here. It is not accurate to say that I am making PLANS. I am doing no such thing. But life tends to reward those who at least recognize opportunities that might exist...so I look for them and file 'em away. I think/hope/believe that Zen and I have a pretty promising potential future to our relationship. And I think that one day it would be pretty damn neat if we could both benefit by way of an improvement in our living conditions, from all of this.
We'll see!
Meanwhile, there IS another way I can improve my financial lot as it presently stands...and it involves looking at my calendar, managing my time better, and making some art to sell. A thing I keep meaning and meaning to do. I need to figure out and set up a good work space and really make it happen, though. I saw some very cool art not long ago while out on the town with Zen, we visited a gallery that was full of awesome and inspiring things. And I have a pretty good potential market...
Spork
Active member
I just re-read that. Like...yeah. Nothing different from what I'd expressed before. No real news in any of those sentiments. Same concepts, different words.
Oh, so the room situation at Thunder...now I need to get a hold of Fire. Zen is covering his room, and knowing that we are going to be exhausted and he usually sleeps better on his own (I do, too) he has suggested I stay with the quad. At this point, I guess I have to hope they'll still have me! Seriously though I don't think there's going to be a ton of fun and freaky going on, at least with me, in the rooms. I've got a feeling I'm going to be pretty exhausted. It hardly matters to me what room I'm in so long as there is a bed I can sleep in...
Oh, so the room situation at Thunder...now I need to get a hold of Fire. Zen is covering his room, and knowing that we are going to be exhausted and he usually sleeps better on his own (I do, too) he has suggested I stay with the quad. At this point, I guess I have to hope they'll still have me! Seriously though I don't think there's going to be a ton of fun and freaky going on, at least with me, in the rooms. I've got a feeling I'm going to be pretty exhausted. It hardly matters to me what room I'm in so long as there is a bed I can sleep in...
Spork
Active member
Hm. So yesterday I had a necessary dealings and conversations with Old Wolf. We're trying to get the divorce worked out, and it's crucial that we have agreement on all things, because we are trying to get away with doing this cheaply with paralegals (basically just help typing up and filing paperwork, walking us through the process)...instead of shelling out $$$ that neither of us have for mediation or lawyers.
But we know, if there is even a HINT of argument in front of anyone from the court, they deny everything we're trying to file and shuffle us off to mediation until we can completely agree. So...complete agreement is required.
Not always easy. But we are managing it.
Along with all that, I brought up the house renting situation. He is certain at this point that he does ultimately want to go to Oregon to "be a part of Song's life"...whether her boyfriend likes it or not...and that one way or another he is keeping and renting out the house.
I told him that I didn't think it was a good idea for me to be the one to rent it from him. For one thing (and this is true even if it's not my primary reason)...my van is old. It's a 2002 and I've put some serious miles on it. I sometimes struggle to afford work that needs done to it, but I've managed to keep it running. The move back to the house would bring me back to having a much longer commute. I don't like that. Not only putting more stress on my vehicle again and more miles...but if something happens to my car, I'm clear across town, not only across town from home but from the kids. In fact...even without car trouble, I don't like being that far from a child that I'm responsible for. It takes me 35-45 minutes depending on traffic to get there from work, as opposed to 15 now to where I live.
That alone, is a good enough reason really.
I was worried about his commitment to our older son. I feel, if he was willing to wait until my lease was up in March so that I could live there with the kids (he said he would "stomach" me in his house if it meant his boys had a place to live)...he OUGHT to be willing to wait until May for Ninja to graduate.
I am still slightly concerned because I know part of him assumes he'd be able to foist the kid off on one of his buddies down there and leave early. While these are trusted friends, I think he ought to step up and parent Ninja for the duration of the school year. But our conversation led me to believe he is willing to do that...if not perhaps absolutely committed to, at this point.
He's actually a little relieved that I'm not wanting to rent the house because he thinks he can get a lot of money out of it, renting it at full market price to some military family. I say, "good luck" because I know what the rental market is like right now...but whatever. Had to muddle through a lot of groaning over how I took away his future and ruined his life when I walked away from our family and destroyed everything he worked for and blah, blah, blah. He's completely bought into the concept that a wife is not a person, a wife is an entitlement that the universe issues you when you have succeeded as a man. A proper man has a wife, a couple of kids, a house, a dog, a vehicle. And he can punish everyone around him just for being in his sight, to his heart's content, and they're not ever allowed to leave, because they are "his things." I don't think he's ever going to comprehend that when you treat people BADLY, they have the RIGHT, to say "I don't like this, and I am leaving." And you can sit there and scream all day about how you're a "good man" and a "nice guy" and "loyal"...but if you've put someone through hell, you're not entitled to their presence in your life. Proof of love is not enduring and putting up with bad treatment. That's not "loyalty." No one is obligated to suffer to prove that they value him or validate his worth as a man or a human being.
I try to say these things to him. And all he has to say back is that he suffered, put himself through hell by going back into the military, to support his family, it was all for me, and that should have paid for all. Because he chose to suffer, himself, it shouldn't be an issue for everyone else to suffer, too. In his world, that's what life is about. Suffering, surviving, and then dying gloriously if possible.
So long story short, I'm hoping Oregon works out for him, though I don't have a ton of faith in that. While I love this area, maybe one day I'll end up somewhere else, too. Someplace he's got no ties to, where he won't follow and where I won't have to worry about him showing up. On the bright side, his track record with his first wife was to completely abandon her and their kids, and to have nothing further to do with them. Oh, the red flags I ignored, at 18 years of age...
So moving along.
Later on last night, I went out to Zodiac, a bar I'm rather fond of. Zen went with me. Hefe had said he might come out, but he didn't. It's one of our kink community get togethers, a smaller one than First Fridays, that usually happens a couple of times a month. It was pretty quiet last night, but there was some live music and they were pretty good, and a few friends to have some good conversation with.
Plans for Thunder appear to be sorted, and that is a relief. Zen has his own room, I'll stay with Fire and Hefe. Given how much covering of my costs the quad has done, Zen is very understanding and he is able to manage the cost of his own room (I really don't know or ask the details of his finances, but I probably over-assumed the damage to his financial situation resulting from his injury and work disruption...he assures me that he is doing fine.)
It's true too that he sleeps better when alone, he isn't used to having another person in his bed. I sleep better alone, too, but it's not as difficult for me to sleep with others around...however I think that his restless energy causes me to sleep lighter and wake more often in the night. I feel like I'm acutely aware of him and I never know how much "actual sleep" I got, like I was drifting in a lighter place for most of the night when we've slept together. It's almost as though my considerate self is worried about whether he is fine, he is sleeping, he is comfortable and I feel like I'm checking his status throughout the night if that makes any sort of weird sense?
So this arrangement...it works. I'm glad that Fire is not so upset with me that she doesn't even want me around. I feel...well...I feel like a failure where they are concerned. At least somewhat. But also like there really is not a lot I can do to make it right. Or not a lot that I will choose to do, to TRY to make it right. Because at the moment, I'm more worried about and focused on my kids, and my money. Those things need some of my dedicated time and attention, and this weekend I plan to devote both time and attention to tending those parts of my life.
But we know, if there is even a HINT of argument in front of anyone from the court, they deny everything we're trying to file and shuffle us off to mediation until we can completely agree. So...complete agreement is required.
Not always easy. But we are managing it.
Along with all that, I brought up the house renting situation. He is certain at this point that he does ultimately want to go to Oregon to "be a part of Song's life"...whether her boyfriend likes it or not...and that one way or another he is keeping and renting out the house.
I told him that I didn't think it was a good idea for me to be the one to rent it from him. For one thing (and this is true even if it's not my primary reason)...my van is old. It's a 2002 and I've put some serious miles on it. I sometimes struggle to afford work that needs done to it, but I've managed to keep it running. The move back to the house would bring me back to having a much longer commute. I don't like that. Not only putting more stress on my vehicle again and more miles...but if something happens to my car, I'm clear across town, not only across town from home but from the kids. In fact...even without car trouble, I don't like being that far from a child that I'm responsible for. It takes me 35-45 minutes depending on traffic to get there from work, as opposed to 15 now to where I live.
That alone, is a good enough reason really.
I was worried about his commitment to our older son. I feel, if he was willing to wait until my lease was up in March so that I could live there with the kids (he said he would "stomach" me in his house if it meant his boys had a place to live)...he OUGHT to be willing to wait until May for Ninja to graduate.
I am still slightly concerned because I know part of him assumes he'd be able to foist the kid off on one of his buddies down there and leave early. While these are trusted friends, I think he ought to step up and parent Ninja for the duration of the school year. But our conversation led me to believe he is willing to do that...if not perhaps absolutely committed to, at this point.
He's actually a little relieved that I'm not wanting to rent the house because he thinks he can get a lot of money out of it, renting it at full market price to some military family. I say, "good luck" because I know what the rental market is like right now...but whatever. Had to muddle through a lot of groaning over how I took away his future and ruined his life when I walked away from our family and destroyed everything he worked for and blah, blah, blah. He's completely bought into the concept that a wife is not a person, a wife is an entitlement that the universe issues you when you have succeeded as a man. A proper man has a wife, a couple of kids, a house, a dog, a vehicle. And he can punish everyone around him just for being in his sight, to his heart's content, and they're not ever allowed to leave, because they are "his things." I don't think he's ever going to comprehend that when you treat people BADLY, they have the RIGHT, to say "I don't like this, and I am leaving." And you can sit there and scream all day about how you're a "good man" and a "nice guy" and "loyal"...but if you've put someone through hell, you're not entitled to their presence in your life. Proof of love is not enduring and putting up with bad treatment. That's not "loyalty." No one is obligated to suffer to prove that they value him or validate his worth as a man or a human being.
I try to say these things to him. And all he has to say back is that he suffered, put himself through hell by going back into the military, to support his family, it was all for me, and that should have paid for all. Because he chose to suffer, himself, it shouldn't be an issue for everyone else to suffer, too. In his world, that's what life is about. Suffering, surviving, and then dying gloriously if possible.
So long story short, I'm hoping Oregon works out for him, though I don't have a ton of faith in that. While I love this area, maybe one day I'll end up somewhere else, too. Someplace he's got no ties to, where he won't follow and where I won't have to worry about him showing up. On the bright side, his track record with his first wife was to completely abandon her and their kids, and to have nothing further to do with them. Oh, the red flags I ignored, at 18 years of age...
So moving along.
Later on last night, I went out to Zodiac, a bar I'm rather fond of. Zen went with me. Hefe had said he might come out, but he didn't. It's one of our kink community get togethers, a smaller one than First Fridays, that usually happens a couple of times a month. It was pretty quiet last night, but there was some live music and they were pretty good, and a few friends to have some good conversation with.
Plans for Thunder appear to be sorted, and that is a relief. Zen has his own room, I'll stay with Fire and Hefe. Given how much covering of my costs the quad has done, Zen is very understanding and he is able to manage the cost of his own room (I really don't know or ask the details of his finances, but I probably over-assumed the damage to his financial situation resulting from his injury and work disruption...he assures me that he is doing fine.)
It's true too that he sleeps better when alone, he isn't used to having another person in his bed. I sleep better alone, too, but it's not as difficult for me to sleep with others around...however I think that his restless energy causes me to sleep lighter and wake more often in the night. I feel like I'm acutely aware of him and I never know how much "actual sleep" I got, like I was drifting in a lighter place for most of the night when we've slept together. It's almost as though my considerate self is worried about whether he is fine, he is sleeping, he is comfortable and I feel like I'm checking his status throughout the night if that makes any sort of weird sense?
So this arrangement...it works. I'm glad that Fire is not so upset with me that she doesn't even want me around. I feel...well...I feel like a failure where they are concerned. At least somewhat. But also like there really is not a lot I can do to make it right. Or not a lot that I will choose to do, to TRY to make it right. Because at the moment, I'm more worried about and focused on my kids, and my money. Those things need some of my dedicated time and attention, and this weekend I plan to devote both time and attention to tending those parts of my life.
Want some feedback? I hope so, because here I go.
I think you could let go of guilt at "letting the quad down." It doesn't sound like such a "together" quad anyway. Fire and Hefe are committed, but Analyst seems to have checked out, temporarily at least, to work on his house sale.
You said elsewhere that you are not assertive about stating your sexual needs. It seems you feel somewhat obligated to provide sex for the others in your quad, but the actual sexual drive, for all of you, seems rather absent. You could let go of the feeling of being obligated to have sex with any of them.
It seems, from here, to be evolving into a close platonic thing in general with Fire and Hefe, and nothing much at all with Analyst (temporarily at least).
You could stop taking the "blame" for the current state of affairs. It takes two to tango.
I think you could let go of guilt at "letting the quad down." It doesn't sound like such a "together" quad anyway. Fire and Hefe are committed, but Analyst seems to have checked out, temporarily at least, to work on his house sale.
You said elsewhere that you are not assertive about stating your sexual needs. It seems you feel somewhat obligated to provide sex for the others in your quad, but the actual sexual drive, for all of you, seems rather absent. You could let go of the feeling of being obligated to have sex with any of them.
It seems, from here, to be evolving into a close platonic thing in general with Fire and Hefe, and nothing much at all with Analyst (temporarily at least).
You could stop taking the "blame" for the current state of affairs. It takes two to tango.
Spork
Active member
Indeed.
I spoke to Fire and to Analyst last night. I explained to both that it is not so much for me a desire to "break up" or to "fire" the quad or completely check out of it. But I felt I wanted to revise the role I am in, to one that feels realistic and doable, rather than to feel like I'm "not doing it right" as a girlfriend. For a time, I asked that they understand...I prefer to see this as dear friends who happen to be comfortable getting naked together sometimes, rather than "relationships" in my mind and life.
Honestly? I think I'm learning a thing or two about relationship anarchy models and why people do them.
When I was trying to form words to express this the other day to Zen he asked me something about return on investment with the various time commitments that I make. I can agree that this concept comes into play, but not just return on investment to me, directly...
This sort of thing has happened in my life before where I've had a handful of Big Important Things that I had to devote dedicated time to, and I've felt after a while that I was dropping the ball on some or all of them, because I was just stretched kind of thin. Both times of significance in my past, that I recall, I dropped out of college when this happened. Something had to give.
Now I am looking at my relationships, and Zen is the only one where I feel like the time I'm putting in, is resulting in both of us feeling fulfilled and satisfied. With every one of the others I'm feeling like I'm not doing enough or feeling enough, like something is falling short or could be better or needs work. For months I've been telling myself to relax and quit stressing out about whether I'm "doing it" for the people in my quad.
But that is not really the solution necessarily, the solution is to stop feeling like just because I spend Friday nights with Zen, I've got to spend my weekends with the quad so I'm giving them enough time and then afterwards wondering if I was fun enough for everybody, or kind of lame and fell asleep on the couch when everyone else had a couple more hours of party left in 'em. For example. And burning the candle at both ends like that when I've got a full time day job, and I'm a single parent...
Chilling out means more than "stop thinking/saying that." It means stop feeling like I've got to "show up" all the time and start "showing up" more for my kids.
I felt that right now with Fire and to some degree, Hefe, with what they've got going on with the other couple, and other time commitments, Fire might in fact be more comfortable with me stepping back and removing some "people pressure." If she remembers not to host any more big parties or community events for a minute, too.
And yeah, Analyst had to check out for a while, but I'm not counting the present state of affairs against him. The concerns I had were more related to interactions previous. I think that his needs in relationships change a lot when he's under stress. My fear was that he had a clear picture in his mind of How He Wanted Things to Be. And that if I expressed a need to dial back my role and change that picture...he might be hurt or angry.
As it transpires... They are all disappointed, but no one is angry.
I'm sure you were used to keeping a low profile with Old Wolf, and tried not to anger him, because his anger was literally life threatening, and could lead to him waving a loaded gun around.
With your current friends, like Analyst, if he's hurt and angry... well, so what? We all get hurt and angry sometimes. That's his emotion to deal with, faced with the realities of life. He'd get over it. He doesn't need you to bend over backwards and basically fake it, to prevent him getting his little feelings hurt. You'd be doing him a kindness to just be yourself, taking care of your needs (downtime to do chores or hobbies) and the needs of your children. Then Analyst would have a clear picture of what he's working with.
With your current friends, like Analyst, if he's hurt and angry... well, so what? We all get hurt and angry sometimes. That's his emotion to deal with, faced with the realities of life. He'd get over it. He doesn't need you to bend over backwards and basically fake it, to prevent him getting his little feelings hurt. You'd be doing him a kindness to just be yourself, taking care of your needs (downtime to do chores or hobbies) and the needs of your children. Then Analyst would have a clear picture of what he's working with.
Spork
Active member
Yes. Well.
Basically I am feeling a need to revise things so that I feel like the expectations, goals, time obligations, etc that I am working with, I can meet and to reduce my stress by moving the parameters and roles around on the board. Ultimately, if those involved cannot accept that revision, then they must respond in whatever way they feel works for them.
I can realistically fit my relationship with Zen into my lifestyle without feeling as though I am compromising my kids or community needs. Zen and my family, me, my kids...we spend time all together as often as once or twice a week. Even if we're just hanging out in the apartment talking, eating, watching a movie, I'm not feeling like I'm abandoning my kids almost all the time that I spend with him.
Things with the quad, it all amounts to me being able to say "no" once in a while to the every-single-weekend activities I've been doing. It's like I'd mentally penciled in that my Saturday overnight which would likely include chunks of both Saturday and Sunday, was their time, unless they weren't available or a special event (like Comic Con) was going on. And those activities haven't really included the kids. Which isn't really their fault necessarily, I could have for instance brought my boys to, say, a BBQ. But the nature of those relationships is very adult, very "we hope to be naked later." The BBQ I'm thinking of...had they been there, some activity later in the night wouldn't have been possible. Those relationships don't include enough time and stuff that my kids can part of in real world application.
I'm not wanting to cut them out of my life. Just dial that back a bit and relieve some of the pressure, of expectations I perceive there, by loosening the knots of the "I AM YOUR GIRLFRIEND" situation. It didn't have to change everything. It doesn't have to be a "breakup" right now. Though I do acknowledge that it could be part of a process, especially if they replace me in their lives with other Relationships (which I think is great and I encourage)...where I wind up "just a friend." I can't speak too strongly to the future, only in terms of possibilities. I don't see a clear road map, because my life has been thrown up in the air for the last year.
I just know that I've got to make some choices for myself right now and renegotiate the energy I'm putting into my thing with the quad.
So. I met with Fire and Hefe last night. And it was wonderful. Fire is very understanding. She just doesn't want to lose me. Both of them would like to continue to have a relationship that includes possible and/or occasional sexuality, but at least time spent together. I can agree that this sounds good right now. I'm not at a stage to offer Zen a fully monogamous, Closed model (today), and there are some elements I'd have to work out and negotiate with him if we headed that direction anyways.
Analyst...well, turns out he's more upset than he let on to me. He doesn't want to talk to me, doesn't want to directly communicate with me or discuss the issue. He was all "hey, I'm disappointed but I get it, and we're cool" when we talked on Thursday, then I suppose he sat on it and got worked up some. Feels I'm breaking up with him, I'm not His Girlfriend anymore, and as I suspected might be the case, is upset and not really interested or content with a revision in title, even if it doesn't effect much in the functional reality of how we interact.
Fire wants us to talk. I'd be game to try, but I'm not going to try and force the issue. I think it's too soon with him. She was nudging both of us to attend an event tonight. I just bowed out, and I hope he goes...if we both were there, it would be tense and awkward because he "doesn't want to talk about it" which just leaves the issues stewing unspoken in the air. I've got so much I could be doing today...divorce paperwork, time with my kids, laundry, movie with Zen tonight... I don't need to go and deal with this, him being tense or not going because I'm there, or me being stressed about what I'm NOT doing with the time I spend there...
My perception is that Analyst wanted to put in the initial legwork, make the upfront investment in his relationship with me as though it were a business venture, and then put the whole thing on cruise control when he's busy dealing with other stuff and expect it to be fulfilling (on his terms) when he was ready to pick it back up. Pay off big dividends in the future when he had the time to pay attention to it again. I'd sit tight, where I was put, until he's ready. I'm "bought and paid for" as it were. IT FEELS THAT WAY. That was not his thought process or intent. That is from my end and I know it. I want to pay him back for my ticket to Thunder, but I also expect he'd be angry with me if I tried. No win situation there, no right thing to do. He's justified in being pissed off at me either way.
He apparently expected me to be "his date" for Thunder. I don't know if that meant he had an expectation that I'd be on his arm the entire time, or what. If so, then there is another of those "I am the womanstuff put into the idealized container of your needs" situations that isn't realistic when I'm involved in it. Thunder is a hugely social event where many of my friends will be present. Even if I DIDN'T have the thing with Zen going on, even if he weren't going to even BE there...I'd still not be on the arm of one man, enabling his social comfort and keeping him from feeling alone or "creepy" the whole time. It has NEVER worked that way. Which is why many times we've gone to parties, Analyst ended up alone on the couch with me checking in with concern and feeling like he wasn't happy, the whole time. And everyone thinking that he was uncomfortable and upset and "giving him space" instead of him being social and making friends. Some of our events have not been that way. But several of them have.
And I don't say any of this as an indictment upon the man's character, because holy fucking shit, Analyst is a VERY good, incredibly noble, brilliant and fascinating human being. I love the man. I'm not madly wildly stupid crazy in love with him, no, but I do love him. He's got tremendous value, and I damn well see it. I just think that he and I have got some compatibility glitches. Misaligned sexuality, poor communication, different social needs, and differences in the balance of commitment and fluidity we need in relationships. Glitches.
Yet still, I thought we might enjoy one another on SOME level. Maybe not in the expected paradigm...we might have had to be creative, and figure out what and how to be. But what I am hearing of his attitude, triangulated (because he won't speak to me) through Fire, tells me that he probably is not going to be game for that. My, "I don't think I can be the thing you expected of me" is going to ultimately be met with coldness and a "fine, fuck you then" answer. I find that unfortunate.
I doubt if we will find a chance where he's willing to talk to me before Thunder, and I hope I can arrange now, after all of the goddamn back and forth on it, to be in someone else's room. If not, I just won't go. That would suck, but I'm tired of fighting it. I'll talk to Zen about it tonight. Frankly for a man who said he was easy with no big expectations and wasn't demanding any commitment, Analyst is the only one who seems upset beyond even being able to talk to me about it, with my desire to shift gears, even though with the present state of affairs it affects the way we conduct our behaviors the least, out of all the relationships I've had going on here.
Whatever.
Basically I am feeling a need to revise things so that I feel like the expectations, goals, time obligations, etc that I am working with, I can meet and to reduce my stress by moving the parameters and roles around on the board. Ultimately, if those involved cannot accept that revision, then they must respond in whatever way they feel works for them.
I can realistically fit my relationship with Zen into my lifestyle without feeling as though I am compromising my kids or community needs. Zen and my family, me, my kids...we spend time all together as often as once or twice a week. Even if we're just hanging out in the apartment talking, eating, watching a movie, I'm not feeling like I'm abandoning my kids almost all the time that I spend with him.
Things with the quad, it all amounts to me being able to say "no" once in a while to the every-single-weekend activities I've been doing. It's like I'd mentally penciled in that my Saturday overnight which would likely include chunks of both Saturday and Sunday, was their time, unless they weren't available or a special event (like Comic Con) was going on. And those activities haven't really included the kids. Which isn't really their fault necessarily, I could have for instance brought my boys to, say, a BBQ. But the nature of those relationships is very adult, very "we hope to be naked later." The BBQ I'm thinking of...had they been there, some activity later in the night wouldn't have been possible. Those relationships don't include enough time and stuff that my kids can part of in real world application.
I'm not wanting to cut them out of my life. Just dial that back a bit and relieve some of the pressure, of expectations I perceive there, by loosening the knots of the "I AM YOUR GIRLFRIEND" situation. It didn't have to change everything. It doesn't have to be a "breakup" right now. Though I do acknowledge that it could be part of a process, especially if they replace me in their lives with other Relationships (which I think is great and I encourage)...where I wind up "just a friend." I can't speak too strongly to the future, only in terms of possibilities. I don't see a clear road map, because my life has been thrown up in the air for the last year.
I just know that I've got to make some choices for myself right now and renegotiate the energy I'm putting into my thing with the quad.
So. I met with Fire and Hefe last night. And it was wonderful. Fire is very understanding. She just doesn't want to lose me. Both of them would like to continue to have a relationship that includes possible and/or occasional sexuality, but at least time spent together. I can agree that this sounds good right now. I'm not at a stage to offer Zen a fully monogamous, Closed model (today), and there are some elements I'd have to work out and negotiate with him if we headed that direction anyways.
Analyst...well, turns out he's more upset than he let on to me. He doesn't want to talk to me, doesn't want to directly communicate with me or discuss the issue. He was all "hey, I'm disappointed but I get it, and we're cool" when we talked on Thursday, then I suppose he sat on it and got worked up some. Feels I'm breaking up with him, I'm not His Girlfriend anymore, and as I suspected might be the case, is upset and not really interested or content with a revision in title, even if it doesn't effect much in the functional reality of how we interact.
Fire wants us to talk. I'd be game to try, but I'm not going to try and force the issue. I think it's too soon with him. She was nudging both of us to attend an event tonight. I just bowed out, and I hope he goes...if we both were there, it would be tense and awkward because he "doesn't want to talk about it" which just leaves the issues stewing unspoken in the air. I've got so much I could be doing today...divorce paperwork, time with my kids, laundry, movie with Zen tonight... I don't need to go and deal with this, him being tense or not going because I'm there, or me being stressed about what I'm NOT doing with the time I spend there...
My perception is that Analyst wanted to put in the initial legwork, make the upfront investment in his relationship with me as though it were a business venture, and then put the whole thing on cruise control when he's busy dealing with other stuff and expect it to be fulfilling (on his terms) when he was ready to pick it back up. Pay off big dividends in the future when he had the time to pay attention to it again. I'd sit tight, where I was put, until he's ready. I'm "bought and paid for" as it were. IT FEELS THAT WAY. That was not his thought process or intent. That is from my end and I know it. I want to pay him back for my ticket to Thunder, but I also expect he'd be angry with me if I tried. No win situation there, no right thing to do. He's justified in being pissed off at me either way.
He apparently expected me to be "his date" for Thunder. I don't know if that meant he had an expectation that I'd be on his arm the entire time, or what. If so, then there is another of those "I am the womanstuff put into the idealized container of your needs" situations that isn't realistic when I'm involved in it. Thunder is a hugely social event where many of my friends will be present. Even if I DIDN'T have the thing with Zen going on, even if he weren't going to even BE there...I'd still not be on the arm of one man, enabling his social comfort and keeping him from feeling alone or "creepy" the whole time. It has NEVER worked that way. Which is why many times we've gone to parties, Analyst ended up alone on the couch with me checking in with concern and feeling like he wasn't happy, the whole time. And everyone thinking that he was uncomfortable and upset and "giving him space" instead of him being social and making friends. Some of our events have not been that way. But several of them have.
And I don't say any of this as an indictment upon the man's character, because holy fucking shit, Analyst is a VERY good, incredibly noble, brilliant and fascinating human being. I love the man. I'm not madly wildly stupid crazy in love with him, no, but I do love him. He's got tremendous value, and I damn well see it. I just think that he and I have got some compatibility glitches. Misaligned sexuality, poor communication, different social needs, and differences in the balance of commitment and fluidity we need in relationships. Glitches.
Yet still, I thought we might enjoy one another on SOME level. Maybe not in the expected paradigm...we might have had to be creative, and figure out what and how to be. But what I am hearing of his attitude, triangulated (because he won't speak to me) through Fire, tells me that he probably is not going to be game for that. My, "I don't think I can be the thing you expected of me" is going to ultimately be met with coldness and a "fine, fuck you then" answer. I find that unfortunate.
I doubt if we will find a chance where he's willing to talk to me before Thunder, and I hope I can arrange now, after all of the goddamn back and forth on it, to be in someone else's room. If not, I just won't go. That would suck, but I'm tired of fighting it. I'll talk to Zen about it tonight. Frankly for a man who said he was easy with no big expectations and wasn't demanding any commitment, Analyst is the only one who seems upset beyond even being able to talk to me about it, with my desire to shift gears, even though with the present state of affairs it affects the way we conduct our behaviors the least, out of all the relationships I've had going on here.
Whatever.
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Spork
Active member
Movie night with Zen last night.
He, sweet and conciliatory person that he is, wants to be flexible to allow for whatever the quad might want of me next weekend. He says that yes, of course, if I need to be in his room, I am welcome. But he feels that, as the others paid for me to go, they get to have priority if they want it and he's completely understanding of that. He wants to get along.
Zen is good like that.
Personally, with the fact that Analyst is not interested in having any honest conversations with me about how he feels...and how hard I find it to talk to him about relationship issues, too... I want to be in any room but theirs, this upcoming weekend. If this is how it is, he is right...it would be awkward.
My frustration is that I feel it didn't HAVE to be...but now it is.
I feel that there were expectations I wasn't even made aware of. I didn't realize that Analyst, in paying for my ticket, expected me to be his date the whole weekend, and I'm not sure what he expected of me, but apparently me not being His Girlfriend has him upset now.
The crazy thing is, I never said to him that I was not game to be his date for Thunder. When the issue with Zen's lodging came up, the last Analyst had said to me was that he might not go, or probably would not go.
Fast forward almost 3 weeks during which we didn't talk at all, and Analyst ignored my phone calls...
During which time I bounced the idea of trying to get Zen in on the space if Analyst wasn't going to be there...but then Zen got his own room, and then Analyst IS going to be there, so I was like great!...it all worked out! Everyone is sorted!
Then our talk last Thursday where I said that I was not exactly "breaking up" but that I felt that I needed to dial back my role from "girlfriend" (who isn't doing a very good job girlfriending) to "friends who are comfortable getting naked together sometimes"...and he said he didn't see a problem with that.
And then he DID have a problem with that, only he won't talk to me about it. No talking means no understanding. Getting one message and then a contradictory one, and a refusal to communicate with me. Yeah, that's bound to not only make things tense and awkward but make me feel less desire to find a working middle ground where we can still have positive roles in one another's lives, if only with him in particular. Let alone how I've been feeling about Fire being in the middle of all of this, wanting us to talk to each other and work it out...ugh, I don't know.
Thing is, everyone said, when I embarked upon my poly adventures, that it was a messy dramatic situation waiting to happen. And I thought no, these folks are too froody for it to go that route. And now here we are.
EDIT: Worth clarifying that I feel as though I've brought the drama, with everything going on in my life and needing to shift things around somewhat...maybe I've just been a "sloppy hinge" here, not finding a good balance in a way that was easier for everyone to take. But I feel that if the lines of communication between Analyst and I had been more open, he might understand where I'm at and where I'm coming from a bit better. He needed to back off his commitments and work on his stuff, and the rest of us were understanding and revised our expectations of him. I needed to back off my commitments and make sure people didn't have more expectations than what I could do...and he got upset and is taking it like a breakup, even after telling me we were ok. I'm throwing my hands in the air right now.
He, sweet and conciliatory person that he is, wants to be flexible to allow for whatever the quad might want of me next weekend. He says that yes, of course, if I need to be in his room, I am welcome. But he feels that, as the others paid for me to go, they get to have priority if they want it and he's completely understanding of that. He wants to get along.
Zen is good like that.
Personally, with the fact that Analyst is not interested in having any honest conversations with me about how he feels...and how hard I find it to talk to him about relationship issues, too... I want to be in any room but theirs, this upcoming weekend. If this is how it is, he is right...it would be awkward.
My frustration is that I feel it didn't HAVE to be...but now it is.
I feel that there were expectations I wasn't even made aware of. I didn't realize that Analyst, in paying for my ticket, expected me to be his date the whole weekend, and I'm not sure what he expected of me, but apparently me not being His Girlfriend has him upset now.
The crazy thing is, I never said to him that I was not game to be his date for Thunder. When the issue with Zen's lodging came up, the last Analyst had said to me was that he might not go, or probably would not go.
Fast forward almost 3 weeks during which we didn't talk at all, and Analyst ignored my phone calls...
During which time I bounced the idea of trying to get Zen in on the space if Analyst wasn't going to be there...but then Zen got his own room, and then Analyst IS going to be there, so I was like great!...it all worked out! Everyone is sorted!
Then our talk last Thursday where I said that I was not exactly "breaking up" but that I felt that I needed to dial back my role from "girlfriend" (who isn't doing a very good job girlfriending) to "friends who are comfortable getting naked together sometimes"...and he said he didn't see a problem with that.
And then he DID have a problem with that, only he won't talk to me about it. No talking means no understanding. Getting one message and then a contradictory one, and a refusal to communicate with me. Yeah, that's bound to not only make things tense and awkward but make me feel less desire to find a working middle ground where we can still have positive roles in one another's lives, if only with him in particular. Let alone how I've been feeling about Fire being in the middle of all of this, wanting us to talk to each other and work it out...ugh, I don't know.
Thing is, everyone said, when I embarked upon my poly adventures, that it was a messy dramatic situation waiting to happen. And I thought no, these folks are too froody for it to go that route. And now here we are.
EDIT: Worth clarifying that I feel as though I've brought the drama, with everything going on in my life and needing to shift things around somewhat...maybe I've just been a "sloppy hinge" here, not finding a good balance in a way that was easier for everyone to take. But I feel that if the lines of communication between Analyst and I had been more open, he might understand where I'm at and where I'm coming from a bit better. He needed to back off his commitments and work on his stuff, and the rest of us were understanding and revised our expectations of him. I needed to back off my commitments and make sure people didn't have more expectations than what I could do...and he got upset and is taking it like a breakup, even after telling me we were ok. I'm throwing my hands in the air right now.
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Hey Spork, I don't mean to belittle your relationships in any way, but this reads more like a highschool quarrel then real drama
I could think of a hundred ways how to make it worse, fortunatelly I don't have to write a soap oppera, so I won't. And it's not your fault. It's just Analyst needing to grow up in relationships. Just... give him a few more weeks, there's anyway nothing else you can reasonably do.
Spork
Active member
Hey Spork, I don't mean to belittle your relationships in any way, but this reads more like a highschool quarrel then real drama
And it's not your fault. It's just Analyst needing to grow up in relationships. Just... give him a few more weeks, there's anyway nothing else you can reasonably do.
Oh god, it could certainly be worse, but I'm glad it isn't. I don't even like highschool level type BS, feel we ought to be past that. I'm accustomed to a rigidly enforced avoidance where Old Wolf and I lived in the same house and mostly pretended everything was fine, even when it wasn't...but we didn't fight and we didn't argue and there was no drama, but I always knew where he stood without asking. Day after day in the endless routine of suburban mediocrity, for years...until, of course, he lost it. I don't know what to do with a bunch of relationships, with intensity here, and tension there, and a shifting dynamic over yonder, and new metas to get to know... It's just possible that poly might have been too much for me to handle. But I never said that I really know what I'm doing here.
No, he just wants to focus very intently upon dealing with his house, too much for dealing with me and my issues right now. So alright. I'm stepping back and not pushing, and we'll see if things get mended eventually or not.
This weekend is liable to be tense and that's unfortunate, he means to try and avoid me, and I mean to let him, and hopefully we'll do an alright job of not intruding on one another.
Spork
Active member
Spork
Active member
Talked to Analyst briefly on the phone last night.
He wished to reiterate that he isn't trying to be a dick here, just really consumed with dealing with the house stuff, cannot deal with any other stuff right now. Loves me, disappointed but not angry, and so on.
I reiterated that this whole thing was not the apocalypse I feel it's been made out to be, that mostly I need to realign things so that I'm doing better at parenting my kids. Redirect my energies and time commitments. I'm not kicking the lot of 'em out of my life or anything! So if he can be cool, I can be cool, we can be cool and set all this STUFF side until another day, and he can get back to his house project and I can get back to my stuff. I still love him, and so on.
We both agree that triangulating through Fire was no bueno, though her intentions in trying to build bridges, were definitely good and appreciated.
I'll be in Zen's room this weekend. Hopefully we can just all be cool. This event is too rare, and too costly, to ruin it with tension and drama.
He wished to reiterate that he isn't trying to be a dick here, just really consumed with dealing with the house stuff, cannot deal with any other stuff right now. Loves me, disappointed but not angry, and so on.
I reiterated that this whole thing was not the apocalypse I feel it's been made out to be, that mostly I need to realign things so that I'm doing better at parenting my kids. Redirect my energies and time commitments. I'm not kicking the lot of 'em out of my life or anything! So if he can be cool, I can be cool, we can be cool and set all this STUFF side until another day, and he can get back to his house project and I can get back to my stuff. I still love him, and so on.
We both agree that triangulating through Fire was no bueno, though her intentions in trying to build bridges, were definitely good and appreciated.
I'll be in Zen's room this weekend. Hopefully we can just all be cool. This event is too rare, and too costly, to ruin it with tension and drama.
Spork
Active member
Dinner and "movie" night last night...not really a movie, Zen has me hooked on BBC's Sherlock now, and I really dig this show! I am glad, because I needed a new show to be enthused about, I'm caught up and waiting when it comes to Game of Thrones.
Sitting there watching this together, full of the happy hum of affectionate feelings, first we are holding hands...then my other hand is on his arm...then my leg is over his leg...then both of my legs across his lap... Thinking of this now I kind of laugh at myself. I'm all "OMG I NEED TO BE ON YOU!" Aggressive snuggles. Sex was on the menu, but by the time we'd come back from getting food, it was nearly 9:00 and I get up early...and there's no such thing as a quickie with me and him, so I reluctantly called it and we watched an episode of the show instead.
I still feel bad about the situation with Analyst. Mostly right now I'm wishing I'd not suggested to anyone that maybe Zen and I could occupy the second bed in the quad room...and if I'd not been under the impression that Analyst was "probably not" going, from conversation with him back last month the last time I was out to his house, if I really thought he was still trying to make it, I'd never have suggested such a thing at all.
It was a "Three's Company" level comedy of errors in miscommunications and misunderstandings. Only at the end, we're not all laughter and fondue right now, just truce and quiet. Which I will certainly take, over tension and conflict... I just feel like I caused hurt by rocking the boat, and at a particularly bad time when he was already under a lot of stress.
Although if I wish to be a bit more fair to myself, in the matter of dealing with stressful things, I was still willing to put time and energy into our relationship when I was:
- In process of a miscarriage last year.
- Dealing with Old Wolf's stupid life choices, from a misdemeanor pot charge having taken his stuff out of state like an idiot, to moving in random people to our house with their kids and animals and chaos.
- At least one and possibly two crazy maniacs who made vague and not-so-vague threats against my life.
- Two teenage sons and all affiliated drama, responsibilities, etc. to include attempting to give them some kind of Christmas in the middle of a family that was falling apart around them.
- Moving from my family home into a small apartment.
- Divorce.
...etc. Never did I take a leave of absence from my relationship with him, due to my own stress. And even in the brief times I had to call off a weekend here or there, I was pretty much always available for at least a phone call, and if he had issues, I always would have heard them.
So the whole, "I cannot deal with you right now" treatment...I try to be understanding, I WANT to be understanding...but the only person I dish this kind of thing to in my life has been Old Wolf. And not even to this extent, I still take his calls and talk to him.
But Analyst is not me, and I am not him. I cannot judge his actions by the fact that I'd only act this way if I just didn't care about somebody. Because he has done plenty of things to demonstrate that he does care about me. And so it's not so much a matter of me examining this behavior in the light of right versus wrong...it is more a matter of "I behave like X in relationships, and this is what I need...you behave like Y in relationships and that is what you need...I question our compatibility." I worry about how much he has already invested in the IDEA of us. I worry about either of us expecting things that might not be realistic. And I'd hoped that if I merely did a dial-back of the status and investment factors, we could retain something that would still bring us happiness and good times.
I guess we'll see. This house thing is being a real pain in the butt for him. I hope it works itself out, and I hope once the dust settles, we can actually talk.
Sitting there watching this together, full of the happy hum of affectionate feelings, first we are holding hands...then my other hand is on his arm...then my leg is over his leg...then both of my legs across his lap... Thinking of this now I kind of laugh at myself. I'm all "OMG I NEED TO BE ON YOU!" Aggressive snuggles. Sex was on the menu, but by the time we'd come back from getting food, it was nearly 9:00 and I get up early...and there's no such thing as a quickie with me and him, so I reluctantly called it and we watched an episode of the show instead.
I still feel bad about the situation with Analyst. Mostly right now I'm wishing I'd not suggested to anyone that maybe Zen and I could occupy the second bed in the quad room...and if I'd not been under the impression that Analyst was "probably not" going, from conversation with him back last month the last time I was out to his house, if I really thought he was still trying to make it, I'd never have suggested such a thing at all.
It was a "Three's Company" level comedy of errors in miscommunications and misunderstandings. Only at the end, we're not all laughter and fondue right now, just truce and quiet. Which I will certainly take, over tension and conflict... I just feel like I caused hurt by rocking the boat, and at a particularly bad time when he was already under a lot of stress.
Although if I wish to be a bit more fair to myself, in the matter of dealing with stressful things, I was still willing to put time and energy into our relationship when I was:
- In process of a miscarriage last year.
- Dealing with Old Wolf's stupid life choices, from a misdemeanor pot charge having taken his stuff out of state like an idiot, to moving in random people to our house with their kids and animals and chaos.
- At least one and possibly two crazy maniacs who made vague and not-so-vague threats against my life.
- Two teenage sons and all affiliated drama, responsibilities, etc. to include attempting to give them some kind of Christmas in the middle of a family that was falling apart around them.
- Moving from my family home into a small apartment.
- Divorce.
...etc. Never did I take a leave of absence from my relationship with him, due to my own stress. And even in the brief times I had to call off a weekend here or there, I was pretty much always available for at least a phone call, and if he had issues, I always would have heard them.
So the whole, "I cannot deal with you right now" treatment...I try to be understanding, I WANT to be understanding...but the only person I dish this kind of thing to in my life has been Old Wolf. And not even to this extent, I still take his calls and talk to him.
But Analyst is not me, and I am not him. I cannot judge his actions by the fact that I'd only act this way if I just didn't care about somebody. Because he has done plenty of things to demonstrate that he does care about me. And so it's not so much a matter of me examining this behavior in the light of right versus wrong...it is more a matter of "I behave like X in relationships, and this is what I need...you behave like Y in relationships and that is what you need...I question our compatibility." I worry about how much he has already invested in the IDEA of us. I worry about either of us expecting things that might not be realistic. And I'd hoped that if I merely did a dial-back of the status and investment factors, we could retain something that would still bring us happiness and good times.
I guess we'll see. This house thing is being a real pain in the butt for him. I hope it works itself out, and I hope once the dust settles, we can actually talk.
Spork
Active member
And on yet another note...
So I have been going to these erotic hypnosis things. Evie here has expressed some interest, and I should talk about this a bit.
I'm an open minded skeptic to many things, and hypnosis is one of them. I had something I've experienced that I thought to be close or akin to hypnosis, but I've just discovered the name for MY thing and I'm really excited about that. What's cool though, is that I'm learning about it now through and because of, the erotic hypnosis folks.
So I've yet to experience a situation where I really feel hypnotized to the point of being actually under the control of another person. I can, if I am giving myself the fullest of permission and desire to cooperate, become quite relaxed and happy and have a very good experience in it all...but when it comes to this notion of being kind of checked out to where my hypnotist might have me doing things and maybe I won't even be aware of them, like a sleepwalker might...I remain skeptical. I have not had this experience.
The phenomenon, however, that I enjoy very, very much to the point of actually trying to seek out these experiences whenever possible, is called ASMR. Autonomous Sensory Meridian Response. If anyone doesn't know what this is, here's a linkie:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_sensory_meridian_response
It's this delicious euphoria that I can experience with the right stimulus. Stimuli that bring this state for me are such touch triggers as grooming or massage or even a light repetitive, slow touch of the hand or arm, any of the sort of what they call "tender, altruistic personal attention" sorts of things. And there are certain voice triggers.
Well it's obvious that someone giving a massage might be extremely pleasant and relaxing, possibly even bringing about that lovely euphoric state. But how about some less obvious examples? Here's where it starts to get a bit funny, for me... This is linked to hypnosis concepts of suggestibility...
The Green Soap Incident.
So once, years ago, a young woman came to my home. She was a solicitor, selling a concentrated green liquid soap that she swore would clean practically anything. When I first saw her, I found her very alluring and attractive. She was young, early 20's I would guess, of mixed racial heritage, with close cropped hair of a tightly kinky/curly medium shade of brown, light sort of milk cocoa shaded skin, and the greenest eyes you ever saw. But what caught my attention was her voice. She had a mellow, husky sort of almost whiskey voice that reached instantly somewhere into my most primitive brain regions like it was pushing a button marked "Relax and be Comfortable."
I invited her in and gave her a Coke and sat at my kitchen table while she told me everything about the green soap. I can't remember a single thing she said, but I remember it felt SOOOOOOOO good to sit there and listen to her say it. She ended up insisting, rather against my will, to clean my bathtub. And hell yes I bought a large bottle of the soap. I think I paid like $40 for it. I would have paid a lot more for her to keep sitting there talking to me.
I wish I could find her. I'd love to explain to her that she has a voice that is perfect for triggering ASMR (which is what was happening) and she could use it to make a fortune doing sessions for people like me, or if she wishes to be unscrupulous, taking advantage of the suggestible states of people like me and selling them ridiculous products with the power of her voice.
EDIT: Worth mentioning... I do remember at the time thinking, "She has no idea what I am paying her for right now." I bought the soap because I enjoyed her visit SO DAMN MUCH it was kind of the least I could do. There would, however, have been a limit to the money that I'd have been willing to give her, and I don't think I was quite suggestible enough that she could have persuaded me to do something EXTREMELY stupid and against my wishes, such as giving her all of my money, or my credit card, or something like that. Hypnotists, incidentally, will often say that they won't be able to persuade subjects to do things that they are very seriously opposed to doing.
Seriously it's one of the most wonderful feelings that I can personally think of. Worth chasing, worth paying for. It is in my opinion, far better than drugs or good food, and right alongside subspace, rollercoasters, wonderful sleep, really good books, and orgasms, for rating as some of my favorite things to experience in life.
I've also felt it induced by certain repetitive sounds, if my environment is otherwise very comfortable. Imagine a warm day but with a perfect breeze, and being in a hammock gently rocking to the sound of the ocean nearby...sunlight dappling through green leaves...a deep, calm lethargic feeling. I've also felt this sensation with palm readers. I have in fact considered going to one and paying for a session, not because I believe in a single thing about palmistry, but because they will touch my hand and speak words to me, and trigger (what I now know is) ASMR.
I have only just started reading up on this. There are apparently videos people have made that deliberately trigger ASMR. I think that this is going to be my new form of mental masturbation...
So I have been going to these erotic hypnosis things. Evie here has expressed some interest, and I should talk about this a bit.
I'm an open minded skeptic to many things, and hypnosis is one of them. I had something I've experienced that I thought to be close or akin to hypnosis, but I've just discovered the name for MY thing and I'm really excited about that. What's cool though, is that I'm learning about it now through and because of, the erotic hypnosis folks.
So I've yet to experience a situation where I really feel hypnotized to the point of being actually under the control of another person. I can, if I am giving myself the fullest of permission and desire to cooperate, become quite relaxed and happy and have a very good experience in it all...but when it comes to this notion of being kind of checked out to where my hypnotist might have me doing things and maybe I won't even be aware of them, like a sleepwalker might...I remain skeptical. I have not had this experience.
The phenomenon, however, that I enjoy very, very much to the point of actually trying to seek out these experiences whenever possible, is called ASMR. Autonomous Sensory Meridian Response. If anyone doesn't know what this is, here's a linkie:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_sensory_meridian_response
It's this delicious euphoria that I can experience with the right stimulus. Stimuli that bring this state for me are such touch triggers as grooming or massage or even a light repetitive, slow touch of the hand or arm, any of the sort of what they call "tender, altruistic personal attention" sorts of things. And there are certain voice triggers.
Well it's obvious that someone giving a massage might be extremely pleasant and relaxing, possibly even bringing about that lovely euphoric state. But how about some less obvious examples? Here's where it starts to get a bit funny, for me... This is linked to hypnosis concepts of suggestibility...
The Green Soap Incident.
So once, years ago, a young woman came to my home. She was a solicitor, selling a concentrated green liquid soap that she swore would clean practically anything. When I first saw her, I found her very alluring and attractive. She was young, early 20's I would guess, of mixed racial heritage, with close cropped hair of a tightly kinky/curly medium shade of brown, light sort of milk cocoa shaded skin, and the greenest eyes you ever saw. But what caught my attention was her voice. She had a mellow, husky sort of almost whiskey voice that reached instantly somewhere into my most primitive brain regions like it was pushing a button marked "Relax and be Comfortable."
I invited her in and gave her a Coke and sat at my kitchen table while she told me everything about the green soap. I can't remember a single thing she said, but I remember it felt SOOOOOOOO good to sit there and listen to her say it. She ended up insisting, rather against my will, to clean my bathtub. And hell yes I bought a large bottle of the soap. I think I paid like $40 for it. I would have paid a lot more for her to keep sitting there talking to me.
I wish I could find her. I'd love to explain to her that she has a voice that is perfect for triggering ASMR (which is what was happening) and she could use it to make a fortune doing sessions for people like me, or if she wishes to be unscrupulous, taking advantage of the suggestible states of people like me and selling them ridiculous products with the power of her voice.
EDIT: Worth mentioning... I do remember at the time thinking, "She has no idea what I am paying her for right now." I bought the soap because I enjoyed her visit SO DAMN MUCH it was kind of the least I could do. There would, however, have been a limit to the money that I'd have been willing to give her, and I don't think I was quite suggestible enough that she could have persuaded me to do something EXTREMELY stupid and against my wishes, such as giving her all of my money, or my credit card, or something like that. Hypnotists, incidentally, will often say that they won't be able to persuade subjects to do things that they are very seriously opposed to doing.
Seriously it's one of the most wonderful feelings that I can personally think of. Worth chasing, worth paying for. It is in my opinion, far better than drugs or good food, and right alongside subspace, rollercoasters, wonderful sleep, really good books, and orgasms, for rating as some of my favorite things to experience in life.
I've also felt it induced by certain repetitive sounds, if my environment is otherwise very comfortable. Imagine a warm day but with a perfect breeze, and being in a hammock gently rocking to the sound of the ocean nearby...sunlight dappling through green leaves...a deep, calm lethargic feeling. I've also felt this sensation with palm readers. I have in fact considered going to one and paying for a session, not because I believe in a single thing about palmistry, but because they will touch my hand and speak words to me, and trigger (what I now know is) ASMR.
I have only just started reading up on this. There are apparently videos people have made that deliberately trigger ASMR. I think that this is going to be my new form of mental masturbation...
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I had to go look up this AMSR! Well, I think the videos of young attractive women with long beige fingernails pretending to massage you in your bed with lotion are more sexual than meditative. Tapping on a tin of teabags does nothing for me either.
Now, Bob Ross! He is the ultimate soother. And I'd rather listen to rainshowers or thunderstorms than some 22 year old woman whispering at me.
Now, Bob Ross! He is the ultimate soother. And I'd rather listen to rainshowers or thunderstorms than some 22 year old woman whispering at me.
Spork
Active member
Last week after I wrote the previous entry on ASMR, I sat at my desk at work with my headphones and my cellphone, playing different ASMR vids on Youtube. Some of them actually irritated my senses to the point where I quickly shut them off. There was a blonde woman shuffling papers and whispering...at one point, she was sort of tapping her fingers on the stack of paper, but it was as though the paper was sticky. It was a sticky noise. Horrible! In fact, most of the women whispering and many of the sounds just didn't do it for me, and when they failed to be "right" for me they were not just a "pass" but rather a "SHUT IT OFF." Like the sounds were highly annoying.
Finally found one I liked though. It was super creepy and weird, but the person (I think it was a man, going as a woman named Margaret, and fiddling with jewelry and saying weird stuff while wearing a mask)...the person was softly speaking and making sort of clicking/popping noises with his/her mouth periodically, and handling clicky jewelry. I found myself sitting at my desk just zoning wayyyy out. Realized I'd been checked out for a few minutes and stopped the vid, got up to go to lunch. And the world tilted and I had to wait until my brain reset for a moment.
Then I was sitting in my car on lunch, and as the effects cleared my headspace, I felt very refreshed and good...and inexplicably aroused and full of sex urges. So. While I am looking forward to playing more with this and hope that maybe Zen and I can explore some of it together, I will not be experimenting with brain-wonking at work anymore!
Weekend recap forthcoming, shortly...
Finally found one I liked though. It was super creepy and weird, but the person (I think it was a man, going as a woman named Margaret, and fiddling with jewelry and saying weird stuff while wearing a mask)...the person was softly speaking and making sort of clicking/popping noises with his/her mouth periodically, and handling clicky jewelry. I found myself sitting at my desk just zoning wayyyy out. Realized I'd been checked out for a few minutes and stopped the vid, got up to go to lunch. And the world tilted and I had to wait until my brain reset for a moment.
Then I was sitting in my car on lunch, and as the effects cleared my headspace, I felt very refreshed and good...and inexplicably aroused and full of sex urges. So. While I am looking forward to playing more with this and hope that maybe Zen and I can explore some of it together, I will not be experimenting with brain-wonking at work anymore!
Weekend recap forthcoming, shortly...