Throuples (three-way relationships)

[Murasaki]

You guys have me thinking

I should soo be sleeping right now, but I saw "throuple" and had to read this thread, and now I have unanswered questions.

When I ran a poll on here, out of 65 participants, only 9 were of a triad-like arrangement.
. . .
Almost half were in a V or similar arrangement.

At least not on those terms that have become stereotyped-- the man, woman, and the hot bi babe at their beck and call, and not allowed to be with anyone else. I think there might be a few really successful triads where one or more of the members has relationships with people outside that triad, for example.

I like statistics.
Does anyone have the stats for Vs? Success versus ending within, say, a year?

Oh, and what NYCindie said-- what is the success rate for people who “stumble” into a triad situation, versus the previously described stereotype?

What about other configurations? There are lots of configurations, right? What are the stats for poly as a whole?

I wonder if there’s an article out there somewhere that explores this. Gonna wander off to scour the interwebs for more info. Interesting thought.

How long need a relationship last to be considered successful? Not all relationships last a lifetime, but that does not mean they were unsuccessful for the time they were there. Research time!!

Does anyone already have any other references on this?

If I find any answers, I'll share.

 

[Natja]

What is the success rate for people who “stumble” into a triad situation, versus the previously described stereotype?

I'll hazard a guess that the majority of those nine, or even all, are accidental triads. I have never known a unicorn-hunting couple to find someone for longer than a few months.

People new to polyamory, when the wife only recently comes out as bisexual, often think they invented the idea of a triad, and naively start looking without researching how feasible it is.

I have a statistic from my Polygamy/Poly-fi site where I hang out. We have thousands of members now. I did a poll of couples just between the ages of 20-50 years on the site, and 50% (almost exactly) were looking for a unicorn. I did the same with the singles, and only 10% were looking to be one.

Couples do not realise how unlikely it is to happen.

 

[pulliman]

Good god, 50% are looking for unicorns? Wow. That's... crazy. Put me in the camp of the stumbled-into rather than sought out, mostly because I can't imagine how one seeks a third person. I just don't get it.

Responding (sorry, no quotes) to an earlier point, I wasn't meaning to highlight the secret stash of successful triads as something special. I think there's an awful lot of polyamory that doesn't get announced as such, mostly in the form of V-type relationships with a member of a couple having another relationship-- an "acknowledged affair," as a friend of mine called it. I didn't mean to imply that triads are unique this way, though. Sorry about the confusion.

 

[Magdlyn]

So, if your potential gf is allowed other partners, maybe already has a bf or gf of her own, has her own place nearby and her own transportation, her own financial independence, is "allowed" to get pregnant by your shared bf should she want to, with legal financial, practical and emotional support in place, is allowed to be "out" to your family and friends, can have dates and sex individually with each of you, etc., etc., this all could work.

Quoting myself to add another "if."

If, after a few dates, a few hot sex sessions, the "new girl" decides she's really only into one of you, not both, what then?

Is she out on her ass? Or, does she keep getting to date and fuck just one of you? How does the "left out" partner then deal? There will probably be jealousy, resentment, disappointment, a bit of heart-nicking and self-esteem hits.

How does the chosen partner deal? Will they feel bad for their original partner? A little guilty? Will the "new girl" still be allowed to come over and coo and cuddle and go off to have sex with the chosen partner while the left-out partner (if they are still hot for new girl) sits in the corner and sulks?

 

[Natja]

50% of that particular website. You have countless others who target polyamory websites.

A triad seems a logical (and safe) choice for a couple with a bisexual female, especially if she is recently out. They feel they have loads to offer, but they fail to recognise their couple privilege and how that negates the value to the "unicorn."

 

[central]

What about other configurations? There are lots of configurations, right? What are the stats for poly as a whole?

How long need a relationship last to be considered successful? Not all relationships last a lifetime, but that does not mean they were unsuccessful for the time they were there.

I find statistics fascinating, too, but they are hard to find (at least anything reliable) when it comes to non-traditional relationships.

We were in an N configuration shortly after we got together (as primaries). We each had a secondary (another man for her, another woman for me). Her secondary met someone else and got married. My secondary continued for a few years (a V config) and eventually found someone else. We consider the N and V as very successful, as everyone enjoyed it, and it ended for good reasons, amicably. I think it helped that our secondaries did not live with us (except for a brief period). We're still good friends many years later.

For several years it was just the two of us. A couple of years ago I found a FWB and we've been a V. My FWB would gladly have a triad (she's bi), but my wife is decidedly straight. We all get along fine and socialize occasionally, but usually I see my secondary separately. I think this is successful, as well. We all get what we want from it without any problems, so far.

 

[Murasaki]

At least not on those terms that have become stereotyped-- the man, woman, and the hot bi babe at their beck and call, and not allowed to be with anyone else. I think there might be a few really successful triads where one or more of the members has relationships with people outside that triad, for example.

I'll hazard a guess that the majority of those nine, or even all, are accidental triads. I have never known a unicorn-hunting couple to find someone for longer than a few months.

Doh! Yeah, I’m sick with a cold (maybe the flu) and needed sleep badly when I made that post.

What I meant by “stumble” was indeed the “accidental” triads that sometimes form, not a unicorn-hunting couple who is stumbling into/through poly.

I find statistics fascinating, too, but they are hard to find (at least anything reliable) when it comes to non-traditional relationships.

Yep, that’s what I’ve noticed so far. Not having much success in getting statistics on poly success versus failure.

I did find some statistic pointing to a correlation between bisexuality and polyamory.

And I found that there’s a lot of newer poly news out there. I haven’t done any web searches on poly in a while. I’ve found so many good articles, from reading these forums, that the need to search “on my own,” so to speak, just hasn’t been present.




here’s the link to an article that estimates that 40% of bisexuals, chose (or practice) poly (maybe non-mono is more correct). And estimates that 40% of polys are bisexual. Using those estimates says that there are about 3.1 million US polys. (paraphrased from the very end of this article)

Now to find a place to post the other interesting articles and videos I found.

 

[peabean]

I realize its all just anecdata to most of you, but I've been a triad for nearly 3 years. It started as the serendipitous type of triad. We are very happy, stable, raising a family etc.

We have absolutely no poly friends, have never been to any poly meetups, and don't know any poly people in real life.

I am the only one of the three of us that bothers to go on poly boards, read poly blogs, listen to Polyweekly, etc. My husband sometimes reads polyinthemedia. Occasionally I find something particularly interesting and send it to my partners, then they both read and we discuss it.

Although I frequently read this board, I rarely write on it. Truthfully, I realize my poly is not the norm. I can't relate to people with primary/secondary models or solo models. Much in the ways that bisexuals are not accepted in the gay community, triads seem to lack acceptance in the poly community. I feel we've navigated the waters of integrating our family into the everyday world of jobs/childcare/vacations/etc.

I'm hesitant to open myself to criticisms from within what most people would consider my natural 'community'. With that said, I am very interested in providing support and answering questions for people entering relationships like mine. I remember having so many questions, and just researching, researching, and coming up with few answers. I would've loved to have a good long chat with someone in a long-term triad during those first months.

So, OP, please ask away. Feel free to PM me, if you prefer.

 

[IndieSolo]

Much in the ways that bisexuals are not accepted in the gay community, triads seem to lack acceptance in the poly community.

Oh, no, it's not that triads as a configuration are not accepted-- it's just the unicorn hunters that get the most shit flung their way because they come with a list of demands, and want/expect their dream bi babe to fulfill all their hopes and wishes. And because it does seem that many triads do blow up in the faces of people who purposely sought out someone to fit into the role of "third," that polyfolk will caution those who look for it and bust chops. And then, of course, there are the very sad but laughable situations where a triad is pursued by a straight MF couple only because the male can't handle the idea of his straight female partner being with another guy, so he makes it a rule that she has to be with a woman, and she does it to make him happy, even though she's not attracted sexually to women, or it's the new chick who goes along with having sex with the guy's bi female partner, even though she's straight, just because that's the only way she can be with him. These are pitiful stories we see here again and again.

It's the prescribing of a triad to help a marriage or fill a perceived lack, or whatever, that is pooh-poohed, not a triad in and of itself!

Hell yeah, if you are happy, and in a triad that came together organically, that is a true success story, and we can celebrate it and applaud you for it! Happy for you, Peabean, truly!

 

[pulliman]

Hey, Peabean, thanks for your post. I have started reading some of your past posts because of you writing in here. It's great for someone like me, stumbling into a situation that I might as well call a triad, to read the stories of those who have gone this path before.

And NYCindie, thanks for the response. I sometimes feel defensive about this whole "triad" thing, mostly because of the vibe you describe. I certainly wasn't looking for it. (Since when is my monogamous wife interested in another person? Since when is my very straight wife interested in a woman? What alternate universe am I part of, right now?! and how could I not have known how happy we could all be?) But with all the questions, comments, pronouncements, and such, I start second-guessing what feels to me to be pretty normal and relaxed. It's nice to read your clarifications about what pushes people's buttons... Thank you.

 

[Dagferi]

I only have issue--
with the unicorn hunters;
with people who want others to fill a certain role in their lives in general, instead of allowing relationships to develop naturally;
with the people who want to saddle someone else with rules and regulations in which they get no say.

 

[peabean]

But with all the questions, comments, pronouncements, and such, I start second-guessing what feels to me to be pretty normal and relaxed.

This is my problem exactly. Our relationship is normal, relaxed. We have worked through our issues by communicating, just like everyone suggests.

But in the beginning, as I was trying to find more information, there was so much negativity about triads in the online poly community I seriously questioned how we could manage it. I would second-guess myself constantly. I wondered if I was some kind of unicorn hunter. Perhaps I was exercising couple privilege by not wanting to come out to people right away. My girlfriend is great, and we have an incredible sex life-- was I treating her as a sex object by texting her all day and having lunchtime rendezvous?

I'm fortunate that neither of my partners read these boards. When I would voice these concerns they would both laugh, and tell me to stop worrying.

I guess what gets me is that you see many people coming on here when they are just opening their relationships, and making the same mistake over and over. About 75% of the advice they get is helpful, patient. When people come on seeking a triad they get dog piled. It's tiresome.

Knowing how good a triad can be, I completely understand why people seek out this relationship type. Of course it's unrealistic, but so are a lot of the expectations newly poly people have.

 

[Ariakas]

This is my problem exactly. Our relationship is normal, relaxed. We have worked through our issues by communicating, just like everyone suggests.

But in the beginning, as I was trying to find more information, there was so much negativity about triads in the online poly community I seriously questioned how we could manage it. I would second-guess myself constantly. I wondered if I was some kind of unicorn hunter. Perhaps I was exercising couple privilege by not wanting to come out to people right away. My girlfriend is great, and we have an incredible sex life-- was I treating her as a sex object by texting her all day and having lunch time rendezvous?

I'm fortunate that neither of my partners read these boards. When I would voice these concerns they would both laugh, and tell me to stop worrying.

I guess what gets me is that you see many people coming on here when they are just opening their relationships. and making the same mistake over and over. About 75% of the advice they get is helpful, patient. When people come on seeking a triad they get dog piled. It's tiresome.

Knowing how good a triad can be, I completely understand why people seek out this relationship type. Of course it's unrealistic, but so are a lot of the expectations newly poly people have.

Honestly that's part of the pitfalls of the online community. It is very cynical about those things it believes don't work. You have to take this world with a grain of salt.

On one hand, there is the belief that relationships are short, shouldn't be tied down, and in the end every relationship is a success... except those evil unicorn hunters who have short enjoyable relationships.

Not every unicorn is mistreated. Not every unicorn-hunting couple does so in bad taste. I think most times what's happening is the aversion to swinging. That's not a unicorn-hunting problem, that's a fear of a label. If most unicorn hunters that are the evil versions just realized they want to fuck and swing, it would save the loving unicorns a lot of heartache. (This happens outside of poly too. It isn't a poly problem, it's an expectations problem.)

It isn't malicious. It's simply misplaced knowledge and acceptance.

Your partners sound like they rock, for the record.

I have a similar online life. I have my reality to check my online world. It's good to know what is really working for me and my friends/lovers, vs what people online believe should be working.

*Excuse any poor English, been working for almost 24 hours straight and need more coffee*

 

[pulliman]

I've really enjoyed going back into the archive and learning bits and pieces about your past, peabean, and this is really great to read, too. Thank you so much for posting here.

This is my problem exactly. Our relationship is normal, relaxed. We have worked through our issues by communicating, just like everyone suggests.

I love that line-- normal, relaxed. AM just left, after hanging out and holding hands with WI while chatting about things, giving me a soft kiss as she walked out the door. We don't live together. (Two of three wish we could. We'll see what it's like by next spring.) And it all feels so normal. Hearing that this can work for others is really important. (And yes, we spend a lot of time with communication and meta-communication, talking about our talking. )

But in the beginning, as I was trying to find more information, there was so much negativity about triads in the online poly community I seriously questioned how we could manage it. I would second-guess myself constantly. I wondered if I was some kind of unicorn hunter. Perhaps I was exercising couple privilege by not wanting to come out to people right away. We have an incredible sex life, was I treating her as a sex object by texting her all day and having lunch time rendezvous?

Like I said above, reading your posts from the past has been nice for me, for this reason. I can listen and learn, without feeling like I'm screwing up or doing the impossible. I mean, sure, it's unrealistic that my wife would fall for a woman, and we would stand around holding hands and talking away. But it actually happened, so what now?

Knowing how good a triad can be...

Smiling at that. Yay.

 

[kdt26417]

Re (from Lottie):

"Would love to hear some success stories, advice, experiences ..."

I highly recommend the Life stories and blogs board, it has a lot of stories and experiences of all kinds (from the successful to the not-so-successful), and it will probably provide you with some helpful wisdom and perspective.

Re (from Murasaki):

"Does anyone have the stats for V’s? success versus ending within say a year?"

Success versus ending within say a year, I don't know that we have that. But Dagferi's relationship configuration stats thread can be found at ...
http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?p=233137#post233137
... and it shows comparatively how many V's there are versus triads, etc.
Mind you, the poll is only accurate within the bounds of those who participated in it.

Re:

"Not all relationships last a lifetime, but that does not mean they were unsuccessful for the time they were there."

I guess you can call an ended relationship successful if the people who were in it consider it to have been successful.

I don't know if there's many (or any) studies out there that analyze success ratios for different kinds of poly configurations. Polyamory kind of isn't that thoroughly-studied of a subject yet. But if you find any studies like that, I'd be interested to see them.

 

[Dirtclustit]

The thing to remember about online communities

is they are never what they appear to be. I couldn't agree more with what Ariakas said:

That's part of the pitfalls to the online community. It is very cynical about those things it believes don't work. You have to take this world with a grain of salt.

When an "online" community has one thousand registered members, you have to realize that it's one thousand profiles and not one thousand individual people who are registered members.

If you are talking about the individuals, you are talking about roughly half that amount, and realistically it's much closer to a third. So of that "online community" there are really only 300 people and not 1000, and of those 300 you might have 30 "special interest" individuals who have much stronger convictions about specific situations for whatever the theme is that the "online community" is centered on.

More often than not, those 30 "special interest" individuals are among the 50 or so who originally start the "online community" and due to their strong convictions, it can often appear that their opinion is the opinion of the overwhelming majority of those supposed 1000 members, however it's been my experience that that opinion is the opinion of "special interest."

You have to realize that online forums very rarely become the "rivers" of interaction between actual people in natural ways (which would be trickles of real peoples' opinion within a watershed and only when it rains) and ever since the "new deal" of advertising -- being that using the world wide web as the media for a sales gimmick is more effective than the previously dominant television, you will notice that there is much speculation about the hottest new "trendy" topic to dominate people's real life conversations.

So what you end up with are rivers of artificial public interactions, forums that appear even semi-active are only 30 of the original 50 people who gathered in the infancy of the forum, and in order to attract other regular members those 30 will often post from three of more profiles until there are enough registered members to engage in conversation., which is not necessarily bad. However, I feel it is a mistake for the majority opinion to appear to be the opinion of special interests. And I don't know what the worst type of special interest is, monetary, political, or when it is based on nothing other than online reputations, which often corresponds to a bruised male ego.

I guess I should throw out the disclaimer that none of this is fact, except for the part about the number of profiles to actual people typically being less than half when it is a social media type setting/forum.

 

[FindingMyselfInTheGrey]

Does anyone have the stats for Vs? Success versus ending within, say, a year?
What is the success rate for people who “stumble” into a triad situation versus the previously described stereotype?

I don't have any big picture statistics, but my stats are:
We are not really a triad but a V: F-M-F, with me and Hubs being together for 14 + years. He and his gf just celebrated their one-year anniversary last month.

We are an 'accidental' V: Hubs and I divorced for 6 months. He and she started dating during that time. I was in a bad accident, which made Hubs and me reevaluate our life choices. We decided we had to stay together. But I had one caveat-- he had to keep his gf.

The last year has had its ups and downs, as we all learned to be in a relationship together. Every day, we learn more about each other and ourselves. There have been times when we have questioned if we were all right for each other. We've all learned to communicate our needs and our expectations, and we've all learned to compromise, and trust, and to share love, even when apart. We're working on making our V good and strong and to provide value to each person.

Hubs and I (and she and Hubs) are really hoping for a lifetime commitment, and are all moving in that direction. We all get along well, have dinner together each month, and can depend on each other for emergencies in the meantime. Hubs is at her place 50% of the time and my place the rest of the time.

We are constantly working on all of the relationships, making them stronger and learning how to communicate as a V instead of as a couple, and how to manage time and resources. We have a ways to go, but so far things are going good, and the future, while uncertain, is looking really good for us.

 

[Ariakas]

When an "online" community has one thousand registered members, you have to realize that its one thousand profiles, and not one thousand individual people who are registered members.

If you are talking about the individuals, you are talking about roughly half that amount, and realistically it's much closer to a third. So of that "online community" there are really only 300 people and not 1000, and of those 300 you might have 30 "special interest" individuals who have much stronger convictions about specific situations for whatever the theme is that the "online community" is centered on.

More often than not, those 30 "special interest" individuals are among the 50 or so who originally start the "online community" and due to their strong convictions, it can often appear that their opinion is the opinion of the overwhelming majority of those supposed 1000 members, however it's been my experience that that opinion is the opinion of "special interest"

you have to realize that online forums very rarely become the "rivers" of interaction between actual people in natural ways (which would be trickles of real peoples' opinion within a watershed and only when it rains) and ever since the "new deal" of advertising -- being that using the world wide web as the media for a sales gimmick is more effective than the previously dominant television, you will notice that there is much speculation about the hottest new "trendy" topic to dominate peoples real life conversations.

So what you end up with are rivers of artificial public interactions, forums that appear even semi-active are only 30 of the original 50 people who gathered in the infancy of the forum, and in order to attract other regular members those 30 will often post from three of more profiles until there are enough registered members to engage in conversation.

Which is NOT necessarily bad, however I feel it is a mistake for the majority opinion to appear to be the opinion of special interests. And I don't know what the worst type of special interest is, monetary, political, or when it is based on nothing other than online reputations which often corresponds to a bruised male ego.

I guess I should through out the disclaimer that none of this is fact, except for the part about the number of profiles to actual people typically being less than half when it is a social media type setting/forum.

As a 25 year admin on all sorts of forums, I would say you are being generous with your stats. 30% pickup on usage would be very high on most medium to large forums, and would be quite happy with those stats (especially if they were monetized). 3% pickup on actual active users or special interest is probably close.

When I ran a forum with around 500,000 users of a far more popular topic than poly, our stats fell more in line with 1% and 20%.

This site, if you look at the bottom under the usernames, has 112,000 users, with 9700 active members, at approx 9% active membership, which, if I remember right, included people who simply logged in. Lurkers, for lack of a better word.

There used to be a really cool backend way of getting stats for V-bulletin. It was slightly skewed, since it couldn't discern statistical difference between activity levels, which is really important when monetizing a forum. I am sure they are further along now. It's been a while since I was involved at the dev. level.

You could sum up your summary by "Take everything said on a forum with a grain of salt."