Tips on transitioning a monogamous relationship needed

[Confusedspouse]

My wife and I have been married 7 years. She is MtF Trans. And... for 7 years we have been under a monogamous agreement. Intense emotional attachments, sexual attachments, etc., are off limits. However, she has been incapable of actually following these agreements, even when she says she will.

Her idea of "friends" is NRE, 6-10 hours a day talking to them on the phone, deep intimate conversations, flirting, sexual remarks, telling them every detail of our marriage (despite me asking her not to). When on dates with me she is texting them. When I cuddle with her, she's flirting with them with her phone above my head. Talks about tying each other up, calling each other hot, love hearts, kisses, etc., etc.

She calls this "just friends." The casual flirting with strangers I can be fine with, but the deep intimate connections being flirty just doesn't feel like monogamy to me. Someone she talks to 6+ hours a day, tells every intimate detail, to asking if they can come to bed with her, and her response being "If you don't mind fighting the dogs"... flirting about sex in bookstores... just isn't acceptable in a monogamous agreement.

We ended up nearly divorced because she became so intensely close to this one woman that it was classic emotional affair (sneaking into the bathroom to talk to her after promising me a vacation alone together, refusing to make any time to talk to me because her "pookie" said she wanted all day to themselves, etc.). Along with sexual flirting.

The woman would be rude to me, and rub how much attention she got in my face, try to make me uncomfortable using private stuff my wife told her about me and our relationship. And the woman ended up asking my wife to side with her over me, and kick me out of their social group, and basically divorce me. She decided not to end our marriage for this woman, but it has caused a lot of serious talks.

She says she can't be herself if there are restrictions on how she interacts with other people. Even now, she says the woman was "just a really good friend" and it's "unfair it ended, because I did nothing wrong and you two couldn't get along." The woman wanted to be her primary. I already was. Of course we couldn't get along. And while I tried to play nice, invited her to activities, tried to talk friendly with her... it was a hostile arch-enemy dynamic, because we both wanted to be the life partner.

And now I am dealing with my wife being depressed over a breakup.

So I am getting the feeling she just isn't capable of monogamy. At all. She agrees to boundaries because "she should," and violates them behind my back. She says she's OK, but then admits feeling "restricted."

Beyond her completely going over every line short of actual sex with someone else, our relationship is good. I love her. I would rather not divorce.

But as a demisexual who is physically incapable of attraction to multiple people (I've found it being special between me and my partner the only way my attraction can spark), I don't exactly know how to transition a relationship from monogamous to non-monogamous.

It would be one-sided. I have zero interest in anyone else. From what she has said, she wants it open, but just no actual sex (she isn't much into sex)... but lots of innuendo/flirting/lead up to the actual sex bit, and intense connections that look like infatuated teens in college attached at the hip.

She doesn't want to share details with me. She prefers to keep these other partners and their interactions totally private.

These types of relationships feel like cheating. I feel like second place. She says she needs them or else she feels lonely and isolated and caged.

I'm willing to attempt to give up monogamy, but I have no idea where to even start. Anyone have advice?

 

[YesThisIsDog242]

My wife and I have been married 7 years. She is MtF Trans. And... for 7 years we have been under a monogamous agreement. Intense emotional attachments, sexual attachments, etc are off limits.

However, she has been incapable of actually following these agreements even when she says she will.

Her idea of "friends" is NRE, 6-10 hours a day talking to them on the phone, deep intimate conversations, flirting, sexual remarks, telling them every detail of our marriage (despite me asking her not to). When on dates with me she is texting them. When I cuddle with her, shes flirting with them with her phone above my head. Talks about tying each other up, calling each other hot, love hearts, kisses, etc etc.

She calls this "just friends". The casual flirting with strangers I can be fine with... but the deep intimate connections being flirty just doesnt feel like monogamy to me. Someone she talks to 6+ hours a day, tells every intimate detail to asking if they can come to bed with her and her response being "if you dont mind fighting the dogs"... flirting about sex in bookstores...just isn't acceptable in a monogamous agreement.

We ended up nearly divorced because she became so intensely close to this one woman that it was classic emotional affair (sneaking into the bathroom to talk to her after promising me a vacation alone together, refusing to make any time to talk to me because her "pookie" said she wanted all day to themselves, etc). Along with sexual flirting. The woman would be rude to me and rub how much attention she got in my face, try to make me uncomfortable using private stuff my wife told her about me and our relationship. And the woman ended up asking my wife to side with her over me and kick me out of their social group and basically divorce me. She decided not to end our marriage for this woman, but it has caused a lot of serious talks.

She says she cant be herself if there are restrictions on how she interacts with other people. And, even now she says the woman was "just a really good friend" and its "unfair it ended because I did nothing wrong and you two couldn't get along". The woman wanted to be her primary, I already was... of course we couldn't get along. And while I tried to play nice, invited her to activities, tried to talk friendly with her... it was a hostile arch enemy dynamic because we both wanted to be the life partner.

And now I am dealing with my wife being depressed over a breakup.

So.. I am getting the feeling she just isn't capable of monogamy. At all. She agrees to boundaries because "she should" and violates them behind my back. She says shes OK but then admits feeling "restricted".

Beyond her completely going over every line short of actual sex with someone else, our relationship is good. I love her. I would rather not divorce.

But as a demisexual who is physically incapable of attraction to multiple people (I've found it being special between me and my partner the only way my attraction can spark) I don't exactly know how to transition a relationship from monogamous to non-monogamous.

It would be one sided. I have zero interest in anyone else. And, from what she has said she wants it open but just no actual sex (she isnt much into sex)... but lots of innuendo/flirting/lead up to the actual sex bit and intense connections that look like infatuated teens in college attached at the hip. And she doesnt want to share details with me, she prefers to keep these other partners and their interactions totally private. These types of relationships feel like cheating and I feel like second place. She says she needs them or else she feels lonely and isolated and caged.

Im willing to attempt to give up monogamy... but I have no idea where to even start. Anyone have advice ?

This sounds like issues that are beyond relationship dynamics. Your wife isn't just incapable of monogamy, she's incapable of the basic tenets of being a respectful partner.

Even if you were in a polyamorous relationship, the following behaviors are still very irresponsible:

- She tells others intimate details about your relationship even though you asked her not to.
- She doesn't respect your quality time together, even when you're on a dedicated vacation.
- It seems like it's very difficult to get her to take any accountability for how she handles her relationships.
- She seriously considered continuing a relationship with someone who was actively harassing you.

If you've already had serious discussions with her, and she continues to act like this without any real change or reflection, then the ball is in her court to enact any real change in your relationship. Your agency rests on the following: Is your wife, as she is now, a partner you can see yourself being happy with for a long time? If she's open to individual therapy, that might be a thread you can follow, but even that will take time if she genuinely commits herself to it. And based off of what you've said, it sounds like she doesn't see any problems at all in her behaviors.

I'm also going to add, as this is a personal thing I've learned in holding this type of irresponsible behavior accountable: Your wife isn't actually incapable of any of these things. She is completely capable of not telling others your details, respecting your quality time, and taking accountability. She just doesn't want to. She doesn't see these things as being worth her time in committing to.

 

[Magdlyn]

I have a couple of questions, if you'd clarify:

Has your wife been like this the whole time you've been in a relationship, or is it more recent?

Did your wife transition since you've been together? Sometimes trans folks go through a "second puberty" and kind of have to restructure a lot of things in their life, including their sexual preferences and behaviors.

Are you male or female? Are you and wife both lesbians, or is there another kind of preference going on?

Otherwise, so far, I just second everything ThisisDog said.

 

[Confusedspouse]

I have a couple of questions, if you'd clarify:

Has your wife been like this the whole time you've been in a relationship, or is it more recent?

Not exactly. She was always a little flirty, but had two main male friends. They'd joke a bit, and flirt a little, but nothing serious, more the gamer-boy talk kind of sexual jokes, where someone says something, and they take it out of context on purpose, than actual sexual remarks about each other. And the one she did it most with I met, her friend took steps to make sure I was not having boundaries crossed and was super respectful, so no problem. She wasn't really super social, so other than some casual flirting with strangers occasionally, nothing to worry about.

She would have all-day phone calls and such with me when we were apart, also when we started dating, but always told me I was the exception and she didn't like talking to people that long.

This new stuff started 6 months ago when she met this other woman. She essentially recreated our first year of dating in every detail with this new woman. Now she says our relationship is "too restrictive" and she can't have rules about how to act with others.

Did your wife transition since you've been together? Sometimes trans folks go through a "second puberty" and kind of have to restructure a lot of things in their life, including their sexual preferences and behaviors.

She started medical transition when we moved in together after marriage. So, about 5 years ago now.

Are you male or female? Are you and wife both lesbians, or is there another kind of preference going on?

I am cis female. She is MtF. She is pansexual. I am... it's complicated. Mostly demisexual, but she is quite literally the only person I have ever had full attraction to. We both identified as asexual when we first got together. She later said she isn't, and the suppressing her sexual side was more trauma based. I've since been able to feel attraction to just her, no on else in 39 years of life. I joke I am (hername)sexual, since my attraction is only possible for her.

Otherwise, so far, I just second everything ThisisDog said.

 

[Tinwen]

Ok. So you

I am cis female. She is MtF. She is pansexual, I am... it's complicated. Mostly demisexual, but she is quite literally the only person I have ever had full attraction to. We both identified as asexual when we first got together. She later said she isn't and the suppressing her sexual side was more trauma based. I've since been able to feel attraction to just her, no on else in 39 years of life. I joke I am (hername)sexual, since my attraction is only possible for her.

I can see how this makes the dynamics all the more complicated.

I often write long elaborate posts, but here I feel out of my depth. This is not a "simple" mono-poly transition (as if those are ever simple). It's more like coming to terms with the relationship form you already have (with her already having several intimate, if not yet sexual, relationships) and finding more respectful ways to live together. Plus all the ace and trans and trauma dynamics.
Get an open-minded couples' counsellor asap.

 

[Magdlyn]

Not exactly. She was always a little flirty, but had two main male friends. They'd joke a bit, and flirt a little, but nothing serious... She wasn't really super social, so other than some casual flirting with strangers occasionally, nothing to worry about.

She would have all-day phone calls and such with me when we were apart, also when we started dating, but always told me I was the exception and she didn't like talking to people that long.

Thanks for the extra information.

This new stuff started 6 months ago when she met this other woman. She essentially recreated our first year of dating in every detail with this new woman. Now she says our relationship is "too restrictive" and she can't have rules about how to act with others.

She started medical transition when we moved in together after marriage. So, about 5 years ago now.

I see.

I am cis female. She is MtF. She is pansexual. I am... it's complicated. Mostly demisexual, but she is quite literally the only person I have ever had full attraction to. We both identified as asexual when we first got together. She later said she isn't, and the suppressing her sexual side was more trauma based. I've since been able to feel attraction to just her, no on else in 39 years of life. I joke I am (hername)sexual, since my attraction is only possible for her.

Okay. Good to know.

BTW, I am also AFAB, and now ID as non-binary. My partner of 18 years is MtoF trans, as well. She also began therapy and hormones just a few months before we started dating. But she's always been bisexual or pansexual and polyamorous. Now she's kind of grey ace, whereas before we met, and in our first year or so, before her estrogen, etc. started really kicking in, she was highly sexual and kinky. Now she's good with sex about 1-4 times a month. She'd rather talk about it than do it. (That's one important reason we are poly, so I can get my much higher sexual needs met with others.) She and her bf don't have much sex either, from what I gather. She's just very into cuddling and kissing. She's also got ADHD, which adds to the complications... Anyway, just telling you that so you can know I can relate to your situation personally, at least in some ways.

You mention your gf having had trauma. I don't know if it's around her sexual identification, but I am guessing at least part of it is. And so she suppressed her sexuality. However, now, I assume, she is healing from her trauma enough to be more interested in sex.

It seems like your actual asexuality suited her needs when y'all first met, but now she's changing, and enjoying being her authentic self, branching out into more sexual exploration. But you are still you, with the same kind of way of loving, that is not particularly sexual.

Differing libidos is extremely common in long-term adult relationships. NRE can heighten sexual desire in the first year or two, but some people's drives dwindle with familiarity, or for other reasons, such as medications. Transitioning from male hormones to female ones can make a huge difference. Usually MtoF people feel less desire for sex, because of the much lower levels of testosterone. But there is a psychological effect in being your authentic self, able to feel right in your body, which could increase desire, too, as seems to be the case here.

Have you read up much on the whole topic of gender affirmation, hormones, surgeries, psychology, etc.?

May I assume your gf has had a bunch of therapy? That's usually required when starting medical transition. Has she shared any insight around her sexual desire and behaviors that she may have discussed with her therapist?

I am not sure why she is in denial about this friend being more than a friend. That is not helpful or transparent. (It's probably guilt around monogamous upbringing, which pretty much all of us polys have to overcome.) I think some couples counseling could help you two a lot.

 

[kdt26417]

Hello Confusedspouse,

It looks like you are getting pulled into a transition that you don't want. Your wife isn't paying any attention to your feelings. She's even being dishonest in the way she talks ... it's "just friends" when you both know it's more than that.

The most important thing in transitioning -- second to mutual consent -- is communication. You must sit down with your wife, say once a month or once a week, and there discuss the state of your relationship, your wants and needs, and rules/agreements that need to be made or adjusted or discarded.

I want to say that your wife should be treating you with respect, and that she should be as willing to sacrifice her polyamory, as you are to sacrifice your monogamy. I feel like she wants you to make all the sacrifices. But, you said that your marriage is good other than that one little thing. I don't think it's little, but I don't want to push you to divorce, that has to be your call.

Sympathy and regards,
Kevin T.

 

[Confusedspouse]

Thanks for the extra information.

I see.

Okay. Good to know.

BTW, I am also AFAB, and now ID as non-binary. My partner of 18 years is MtoF trans, as well. She also began therapy and hormones just a few months before we started dating. But she's always been bisexual or pansexual and polyamorous. Now she's kind of grey ace, whereas before we met, and in our first year or so, before her estrogen, etc. started really kicking in, she was highly sexual and kinky. Now she's good with sex about 1-4 times a month. She'd rather talk about it than do it. (That's one important reason we are poly, so I can get my much higher sexual needs met with others.) She and her bf don't have much sex either, from what I gather. She's just very into cuddling and kissing. She's also got ADHD, which adds to the complications... Anyway, just telling you that so you can know I can relate to your situation personally, at least in some ways.

She thinks she has ADHD or autism, as well as everything else but hasn't sought any sort of diagnosis / treatment.

You mention your gf having had trauma. I don't know if it's around her sexual identification, but I am guessing at least part of it is. And so she suppressed her sexuality. However, now, I assume, she is healing from her trauma enough to be more interested in sex.

She was in an abusive relationship. So was I. She has opened up enough to admit she wants sex (BDSM). And, I discovered I can want her - no one else ever in life - so more demi than ace exactly. It is just another facet of myself that naturally leans to one partner. I sincerely doubt I'd ever desire anyone else.

It seems like your actual asexuality suited her needs when y'all first met, but now she's changing, and enjoying being her authentic self, branching out into more sexual exploration. But you are still you, with the same kind of way of loving, that is not particularly sexual.

Sort of. We both explored sexually with each other in a safe environment with no pressure. For her that meant admitting shes not asexual and was just trauma avoiding from her ex. For me that meant I found I can desire her and her alone, but the variables have to be right. One of those is that it feels special - so if she ever ends up wanting someone else and going through with it, I am pretty certain our sex life would stop (currently it is whenever we are both feeling it, she says no more often due to dysphoria). It wouldnt feel special anymore. So, with allowing her freedom, id be giving up any and all sexual desire or fulfillment for myself in life. Which, I only found it within this relationship so I can live without. But, our relationship would likely go to ... mostly platonic.

Differing libidos is extremely common in long-term adult relationships. NRE can heighten sexual desire in the first year or two, but some people's drives dwindle with familiarity, or for other reasons, such as medications. Transitioning from male hormones to female ones can make a huge difference. Usually MtoF people feel less desire for sex, because of the much lower levels of testosterone. But there is a psychological effect in being your authentic self, able to feel right in your body, which could increase desire, too, as seems to be the case here.

Have you read up much on the whole topic of gender affirmation, hormones, surgeries, psychology, etc.?

Ive read a bit. But, being honest, getting her to tell me what fits her is impossible. I mostly get shrugs. Or I dunno.

May I assume your gf has had a bunch of therapy? That's usually required when starting medical transition. Has she shared any insight around her sexual desire and behaviors that she may have discussed with her therapist?

Nope. None. Informed consent transition. She gets blood work every 3 months but no other medical care. Ive suggested it for the trauma and the dysphoria but she doesnt want to.

I am not sure why she is in denial about this friend being more than a friend. That is not helpful or transparent. (It's probably guilt around monogamous upbringing, which pretty much all of us polys have to overcome.) I think some couples counseling could help you two a lot.

She seems to think the only way to cheat is to have physical sex with someone... from what little I can gather. But, if I try to ask anything she shuts down and just says she did nothing wrong and asks to change topic. Ive asked for her to explain what she wants from other people but not got an answer yet. Ive asked what the lines are with other people but also wont get an answer.

We did couples counseling for 3 sessions but she said it was useless and she had nothing to talk about. She wouldnt read Shirley Glass' book "Not Just Friends". Wouldn't even discuss the boundaries that should exist between friends and more than. Wouldn't back off the friend and talking on the phone 1-6 hours every day for us to work on it. And wouldnt stop telling her every intimate detail of our marriage, including every argument. I ended up booking a divorce lawyer consult. She only stopped with the "friend" because the woman asked her to kick me out of the social group and my wife didnt say that was a line, but told her she needed a break from the social group to think and the woman attacked my wife for not being on her side immediately and casting me out. She still insists there was nothing more than friendship. But shes "broken up" with the woman now.

So im trying to figure out if we can meet her needs and not make me feel horrible (I ended up in therapy and on antidepressants because of her relationship with thewoman, so I could function in my job) by expanding.. but she wont even tell me what those needs are. She says shes scared of us arguing because of the arguments we had over this woman and her behavior. And that arguments between us and between her and the other woman were "not fair" because "she did nothing wrong".

 

[Magdlyn]

Okay. Here's the thing. All the details aside, loving more than one person romantically requires clear, transparent and open communication. It requires enough self-knowledge to admit what one is actually feeling. One needs a certain kind of courage to do that, not just sticking your head under the sand and saying, "No," and "I dunno."

You could check out our Golden Nuggets section for the thread on poly resources. There are articles, short and long, and books, a podcast, etc. If she won't talk and learn and be clear about needs, wants, future plans, if all she wants to do is avoid you, and dismiss your feelings, seemingly in a cavalier fashion, just to talk silly nonsense with someone else, you need to get your own head straight. You have soft feelings for her from the rush of NRE you first experienced. Things have changed though. I am sorry to say she seems to be moving in another direction.

You can see she is highly interested in someone else. If that makes you feel not special, and want to let go of her, be true to yourself. Do some reading and research. I especially recommend the "poly hell" article. See if that affirms your feelings.

kathylabriola.com - ARE YOU IN POLY HELL?

COMMON PITFALLS IN OPEN RELATIONSHIPS Many people who are in a primary relationship stumble into an outside relationship either by choice or by chance, and once involved, things can go beautifully or can go terribly awry. Here are some of the most common problems that develop and some ideas for

www.kathylabriola.com

 

[Confusedspouse]

Okay. Here's the thing. All the details aside, loving more than one person romantically requires clear, transparent and open communication. It requires enough self-knowledge to admit what one is actually feeling. One needs a certain kind of courage to do that, not just sticking your head under the sand and saying, "No," and "I dunno."

You could check out our Golden Nuggets section for the thread on poly resources. There are articles, short and long, and books, a podcast, etc. If she won't talk and learn and be clear about needs, wants, future plans, if all she wants to do is avoid you, and dismiss your feelings, seemingly in a cavalier fashion, just to talk silly nonsense with someone else, you need to get your own head straight. You have soft feelings for her from the rush of NRE you first experienced. Things have changed though. I am sorry to say she seems to be moving in another direction.

You can see she is highly interested in someone else. If that makes you feel not special, and want to let go of her, be true to yourself. Do some reading and research. I especially recommend the "poly hell" article. See if that affirms your feelings.

kathylabriola.com - ARE YOU IN POLY HELL?

COMMON PITFALLS IN OPEN RELATIONSHIPS Many people who are in a primary relationship stumble into an outside relationship either by choice or by chance, and once involved, things can go beautifully or can go terribly awry. Here are some of the most common problems that develop and some ideas for

www.kathylabriola.com

Thank you for the article.

"Some couples establish guidelines on whether it is okay for someone to phone, email, or text the another partner while in the presence of one partner. Some people decide it is fine to discreetly email the other partner while you are on your computer doing other things anyway. Some agree to text or phone their other partners while the present partner is occupied doing something else, such as on the phone with relatives or putting the kids to bed. Some agree that it is fine to leave the room and call or email a partner, as long as a specific time limit is kept, so that it does not drain too much time or connection away from the present partner or trigger abandonment fears. There is no right or wrong way to do this, as long as everyone is comfortable with the situation and can tolerate the degree of intrusion involved."

So, when I tried to do this part, we agreed that daytime, when I am at work, and she is free, was whatever. But, weekends when we both have time together (our only time together really due to differing work schedules) would be for us, no texting the other woman. She ended up saying that was too controlling/jealous, and basically she needs contact with them every day, and if I even get up to get a drink or go quiet a few minutes, it shouldn't matter if she sends "a few messages."

Does my ask seem too big? She would spend anywhere from 1-6 hours every weekday with the other woman, plus texting the rest of the day/night (even not coming to bed with me, because she fell asleep on the couch talking to her). And an hour or so with me on weekdays. Then, I'd ask for us time on weekends since she works nights and I work days, so we hardly see each other on weekdays. (It's her choice to work nights. She knows my schedule can never be night shift.)

Weekends were literally our only alone time available. She agreed, but she kept violating it behind my back, and when I'd notice she got upset that I wanted "so much time/attention."

 

[Tinwen]

I do, in fact, think that demanding strict non-contact on weekends is controlling. Your stated need is not "no contact with the other woman." Your stated need is "quality time together." But even if you're spending the weekend together, you are not in communication without breaks. That would be an insane demand. Each of you does need minutes or hours to yourself.

Maybe you read the news (or whatever), and she sends a text. If there was no other lover, maybe she'd check Facebook. So unless you have a strict "no phone" policy for the household, this is not a real change. What matters is whether she can put her phone down.

That's why I think your "no-contact" demand is rooted in jealousy and not a need for quality time. I don't want to downplay jealousy, but it's important to know that's where you're coming from.

There's a single one most important piece of poly advice: Focus on what you need in your relationship, not what other people are getting. It's almost never about the metamour.

 

[Confusedspouse]

I do, in fact, think that demanding strict non-contact on weekends is controlling. You stated need is not "no contact with the other woman", your stated need is "quality time together". But even if you're spending the weekend together, you are not in communication without breaks. That would be an insane demand. Each of you does need minutes or hours to yourself.
Maybe you read the news (or whatever) and she sends a text. If there was no other lover, maybe she'd check facebook. So unless you have a strict "no phone" policy for the household, this is not a real change. What matters is whether she can put her phone down.
That's why I think your no contact demand is rooted in jealousy and not a need for quality time. I don't want to downplay jealousy, but it's important to know that's where you're coming from.

There's a single one most important piece of poly advice: Focus on what you need in your relationship, not what other people are getting. It's almost never about the metamour.

I want time together alone, no other people involved. We play a game, she would text her "friend". We watch a movie, she would text her "friend". We go on vacation just us, alone, she texts her "friend". We go on a movie date, she texts her "friend" during the movie. We go to dinner, she texts her "friend". I ask for my birthday no phones, she sneaks into the bathroom with her phone to text her "friend".

Thats why we agreed no social on weekends. For alone time *together*. Without always feeling like every single day is a threesome. The "friend" got about 50x more attention / time than I did every week.

She carries the phone to the bathroom, into bed, when we are snuggling and when we are out. Its on the table at dinner. Its on the desk open in front of her if we play video games together. Getting her to put it down for more than 30s is difficult to impossible.

What would be a reasonable ask for time alone together as a couple then ? Without the "other partner" involved? I hate feeling like a 3rd wheel constantly. We used to have weekends together to movie marathon things or play games for 12 hours. Now... I feel like alone time is literally impossible.

(Also note this was my ask when we were still 100% under a monogamous arrangement. And we never had a no phone policy cause she always naturally got off her phone when we were together)

 

[Magdlyn]

So it sounds like, for seven years, you two were allegedly monogamous, but wife always had these "close friends," which were intense relationships, where she seemingly spent more time texting them, than being with you.

She won't admit to them being more than friends.

Lots of people lie about and deny their crushes to their mono partner, trying to give lip service to being monogamous. It's hard to admit you're really poly (or even done with a relationship), and what that would entail. It might entail breaking up. It might entail intensive work and couples therapy, at least, if you want to stay together.

She "agreed" to a compromise of "no phones" at certain times on the weekends. She lied. If a compromise doesn't work, rather than just going your own sweet way, poly people renegotiate boundaries. But she keeps brushing you off.

What can you do, besides breaking up, that will get through to her? That seems to be your question. Your request is reasonable, or at least a form of it-- less time on her phone on the weekend. More focus on you, on each other, like you used to have.

Ever hear of the "Seven Year Itch"? The bloom is off the rose in your relationship, at least for your wife. She's getting off on her NRE for this new friend/crush. It seems she just can't hear you, or doesn't want to hear you, or just doesn't care about your feelings anymore. Right? We can't force someone to care about us, can we? I don't see any "come to Jesus" moment happening here.

And she's averse to therapy, so... all I can suggest is to break up. What are you getting out of this (dying/dead) relationship anyway? Just pain, it sounds like.

Relationships last for a reason or a season. Your "season" might be up.

 

[Tinwen]

I dunno, one should definitely be able to put the phone down for a few hours date. It's just that the whole weekend seemed excessive to me. I bet you can't hold focus just on stuff you do together for that long either.

I agree what you describe is unhealthy and disruptive. Unfortunately, it sounds like general phone addiction (on top of everything else), and you can't do much with addicts unless they realize they are addicts.

NRE works like an addiction too. The first few months are crazy. It's really hard for some people to not think about their new lovers every waking minute, to focus on work and not to check their phone all the time. It's such a powerful hormonal cocktail and the craving is so hard to manage. Your wife is not alone in that.

There was literally a moment this spring when I had great sex with my partner, and was lying in his arms all giddy afterwards, and realized I had the need to text my crush. I was kidding myself beforehand that I was not really in love, that he'd just awakened my need for more physical touch, but that moment was like WTF, ok, I'm in limerance REAL BAD. I made all my efforts to be present with my partner during those critical months, but this stuff still happened.

Your wife does need to work on her ethics and prioritize your relationship, if she wants to keep you. I hope you don't endure this treatment forever, although you have high stakes (your only experience of working sexuality so far) at play. I don't know if we can help you, if she's not willing to listen.

But focusing on what the other people get (more attention, etc.) instead of what you want and need is a classic newbie mistake. As a thought exercise, try reframing the situation in a way that doesn't involve other lovers: Maybe she's doing 30h/week rock climbing instead of messaging, or she constantly checks her phone to see the stock market. Would you feel the same? How would you frame your request now? Maybe it's the same, maybe it isn't...

 

[Magdlyn]

BTW, what did you think of the "poly hell" article? Do you think your wife would read it, or let you read it to her, and discuss it?

 

[Confusedspouse]

I dunno, one should definitely be able to put the phone down for a few hours date. It's just that the whole weekend seemed excessive to me. I bet you can't hold focus just on stuff you do together for that long either.

Honestly, I love our weekends together. So, I can. We dont see each other much beyond having dinner and then she has to go bed during the week. So, all weekdays shes doing her own thing and I miss her. On weekends we always made up for that by going out for the weekend, overnights at the beach, movie marathons of things we didnt get to watch in the week, all weekend gaming sessions, sex only happens on weekends, all the chores also are on weekends... weekdays we have loads of time apart so we always made up for it by cramming our time to the weekends. So its kinda now im losing that, too.

I agree what you describe is unhealthy and disruptive. Unfortunately, it sounds like general phone addiction (on top of everything else), and you can't do much with addicts unless they realize they are addicts.

The phone addiction started with the relationship. So, its more "other people addicted". She logged 19 hours a day on the social media platform she used to talk to the other woman as an "average" for a week on her phone usage. To the point she was even texting while driving, on the phone with her nearly her entire work shift, then getting home and getting on games with her online. Just never ending attention to her. All while going "shes just a friend! Id never cheat!" And im just over here feeling like chopped liver in a supposed monogamous marriage, where ive done all the traditional friend boundaries...no long meetings alone together, no super intimate talks, dont bad mouth your spouse to others, avoid anything that will divert your emotional energy too far from your spouse. And she's walked a mile over every line I put up between me and other people and blaming me for being upset.

So... Im willing to bend if she needs other people this much. But... I am waiting on her to tell me what she needs.

NRE works like an addiction too. The first few months are crazy. It's really hard for some people to not think about their new lovers every waking minute, to focus on work and not to check their phone all the time. It's such a powerful hormonal cocktail and the craving is so hard to manage. Your wife is not alone in that.

When is the NRE meant to end? 6 months is a long time to get nothing for myself. Not even my birthday.

 

[Confusedspouse]

BTW, what did you think of the "poly hell" article? Do you think your wife would read it, or let you read it to her, and discuss it?

I think if I mention non-monogamy she'd deny wanting it, honestly. She insists her relationships to other people have nothing inappropriate for traditional monogamous relationships. Even when our marriage counselor said "id be uncomfortable if my partner had such a friendship too".

I... think what she wants is me to just not care what she does with others ever and the only line is "no actual sex". But I don't know if thats even possible to have as a dynamic.

 

[Tinwen]

When is the NRE meant to end? 6 months is a long time to get nothing for myself. Not even my birthday.

She absolutely has to make an effort to keep the important parts of your relationship running, even with the NRE.

I've done all the traditional friend boundaries... no long meetings alone together, no super-intimate talks, don't badmouth your spouse to others, avoid anything that will divert your emotional energy too far from your spouse.

Maybe a benefit of the new arrangement to you could be that you can relax on that too.
"No super-intimate talks?" I mean, I get it, people don't want to fall in love. But that's like cutting an entire dimension out of life.

I think what she wants is me to just not care what she does with others ever, and the only line is "no actual sex." But I don't know if that's even possible to have as a dynamic.

It is actually possible to give freedom with few limits. The limits in polyamory grow from practicalities and from the needs of the relationship. The "no actual sex" would have to be her decision, anyway.

It comes to my mind that some people have "don't ask, don't tell" policies. They don't ask their spouse if they have someone, who it is and what they do together. All they need to know is whether their partner will be available or not, to allow for effective scheduling. But, these arrangements still requite both people to care and put effort into the original relationship, and usually something along a "no disruptions on family time" rule would be very much part of that.

I'm getting the feeling you might be actually be leaning somewhat in this direction in your own preferences, like you're not actually bothered if you don't see what's going on (maybe including sex), but you don't want it to change your functioning as a couple. Most poly people will see "don't ask, don't tell" as just borderline ethical, because so much information is missing, and also because it sets a firm hierarchy. But it is in a way inspiring that this can work.

 

[Confusedspouse]

She absolutely has to make an effort to keep the important parts of your relationship running even with the NRE.

How exactly does one do that, if you want your other partner's attention, even during intimate times with the one you are with physically?

Maybe a benefit of the new arrangement to you could be that you can relax on that too.
"No super-intimate talks?" I mean, I get it, people don't want to fall in love. But that's like cutting an entire dimension out of life.

I have no interest in changing anything for myself. As I said, this is a 100% one-sided thing I'm considering. I'm happy with things as they are with other people.

I have friends I sometimes meet up with to catch up. I know their personal lives, but therapy-level sharing/supporting intimate talks I reserve for my wife (because for me, marriage means no secrets) and my actual therapist. No one else needs to know me that well, or be that close to me, because I'm not seeking a romantic connection that requires that level of intimacy. I like the hierarchy totems monogamy offers. Spouse/family > friends > acquaintances ... easy, neat, and I haven't had any drama with friends, because everyone knows their place in my life and we all share the same ideals. Their partners and kids are higher than me, and my partner is higher than them, and no one takes offense when we treat it as such, because we are all on the same page.

Also, I know myself well enough over the years, that if I try for equal emotional intimacy with someone else, all it does is immediately cancel my feelings for the original partner. I made the mistake of getting too close/talking too intimately with a friend once, and it caused deep emotional closeness. As soon as that developed, I had nothing but platonic feelings for my then partner, and I broke it off with them, because kissing them felt like kissing my brother. So. If I were to venture into exploring intimacy with other people, I would be divorcing for someone else. My entire nature (romantic feelings can't exist for two at a time, sexual feelings only for one person in 39 years) is geared to one main relationship. I am simply not capable of several. Nor would I really want several.

It is actually possible to give freedom with few limits. The limits in polyamory grow from practicalities and from the needs if the relationship. The "no actual sex" would have to be her decision, anyway.

The "no actual sex" bit is her line. That's the only one I can get out of her. Beyond, it doesn't seem like any other line she is willing to follow. Not even "Please don't tell this person everything about our sex life/arguments."

It comes to my mind that some people have "don't ask, don't tell" policies. They don't ask their spouse if they have someone, who it is and what they do together. All they need to know is whether their partner will be available or not, to allow for effective scheduling. But, these arrangements still require both people to care and put effort into the original relationship, and usually something along a "no disruptions on family time" rule would be very much part of that. I'm getting the feeling you might be actually be leaning somewhat in this direction in your own preferences, like you're not actually bothered if you don't see what's going on (maybe including sex), but you don't want it to change your functioning as a couple. Most poly people will see "don't ask, don't tell" as just borderline ethical, because so much information is missing, and also because it sets a firm hierarchy. But it is, in a way, inspiring that this can work

No disruptions on family time is very much an issue for me. She works weird shifts, so we don't sleep together, we don't get time after work together much. Our time together is very limited. And we still have to do errands/chores because those all happen on weekends. (We are both too tired during the week.) So, actual quality time to be together as a couple is very small windows. We might get Saturday evening stay up late binging Pirates of the Caribbean, or a day to play a new game and get engrossed in it. And that is all of our time for the whole week.

I know you say not to compare. But, if I do the math, I'd say the "friend" got maybe 50-60 hours a week with my wife. I got maybe 8 hours a week. And most of it distracted hours, making dinner, or her being on the phone with the "friend." Before we did the weekends for us thing. Then we had our first day alone together in 6 months and it just felt so good. We only kept it for a week before she violated it. But, that one weekend of having time together again without a third party was so nice.

 

[Tinwen]

How exactly does one do that if you want your other partners attention even during intimate times with the one you are with physically?

That's the question, isn't it? I wasn't exactly happy with the intensity of my limerance. (It wasn't reciprocated in the same way.) It was nice, but I struggled a lot too. And no, I didn't find any easy-to-apply tricks.

But look, the example I gave was extreme. I remember it because it was extreme.

Unlike your experience, I didn't fall out of love with my partner. I was not sure that wouldn't happen, but my feelings for him didn't change a bit. There was just a new storm of emotion on top of that. I was more sexual in general and I had these intrusive thoughts, fantasies and cravings.

I would take care to schedule dates and do nice things as much, or more than usual. (This was very possible, because the new relationship wasn't intense.) I did my best to let go of those thoughts when with my partner and bring my attention to the present moment. It didn't always work, but it was sure worth the effort. I asked for understanding, as I needed to talk it out a few times. I took a lot of alone time just daydreaming.

There was no question of leaving in my mind. I don't know if that would be different if the NRE was reciprocated. I was out of the very worst after about two months, but now I haven't seen that man in half a year and I still had to think of him on Christmas. Lol. I would have liked to meet the person who got close to me this year...

So the only real answer I can give is, you do the best you can.

It's perhaps better to admit you are distracted, and making an effort despite it, than trying to keep it a dirty secret. It's no use to blame [yourself] for those interfering thoughts and no use to blame [yourself] for sometimes scratching that itch by checking your phone on the toilet [and perhaps returning to your date slightly less distracted], but it's not good to always give in and just go text and leave your partner hanging. You try to strike a balance, as best you can.

I know you say not to compare. But, if I do the math, id say the "friend" got maybe 50-60 hours a week with my wife. I got maybe 8 hours a week. And most of it distracted hours, making dinner, or her being on the phone with the "friend". Before we did the weekends for us thing. Then we had our first day alone together in 6 months and it just felt so good. We only kept it for a week before she violated it. But, that one weekend of having time together again without a third party was so nice.

Yes, what I say is, the first part is not helpful in managing your feelings. It's not actually good to know how much time she spends texting during your time apart (and it doesn't matter unless it means she'll neglect the dishes for the whole week). The second one does matter a lot and I get it. Does she?