Too much kitchen table?

A

Avoidant

New member
Is there such a thing as TOO much kitchen table poly? My relationship with my husband is not doing well over the past few years since he got a GF. We do everything together with his GF.
We go everywhere together. I always feel like a third wheel. There is no more "he and I"....just "her and him...and oh, I guess I'll tag along". I love them both so much but I just don't think I can do this anymore. He's mostly stopped having sex with me and actually told me that I don't do the right things to turn him on the way she can. I can't even do what he's asking because I usually just feel "meh" anymore. I feel second best, unwanted and not sexy at all when I'm with him. I lay there and compare myself to her the whole time.
Even if he and I go out....she's there. All our friends are shared. I'm at a loss of how to reconnect with my husband. I told him yesterday I wanted a separation.
 
Honestly, this doesn't sound like too much kitchen table poly, it sounds like poly hell. Sometimes people get carried away earlier in the new relationship due to all the NRE and it eventually evens back out when the NRE begins to wane....but given that you've said the relationship is a few years old, that's probably not the case here. Mono people also occasionally use the poly label as either a transition of sorts from one mono relationship to the next mono relationship, or they use it as a means of avoiding breaking up a marriage or nesting relationship. I wonder if that's the case with your husband?

Prior to asking for the separation, did you ask your husband for more time alone? If so, how was that received? And, how was your request for a separation received? That will help you determine whether he's already checked out of the relationship. I'm sorry you're hurting. ((Hugs))
 
Over the last couple years, I've had a few meltdowns. At first, he met them with care and concern. But as time went on, he just got angry at me and told me how I was to blame in one way or another. I have had a series of boyfriends and casual sex buddies....and he compares my dating to his relationship with his GF. The difference is...I'm not in love with my current partners. I don't leave him home alone overnight to be with them. I try to only go out when he's out of town. But he is deeply in love with his GF. I've told him I am giving up all dating...which pretty much means I'll be celibate, since he's not interested anymore. He has volunteered to end things, but I think he'll just resent me in the long run. He is a wonderful husband and has been doing his duties, but we're like roommates anymore. I just want someone to be in love with ME.
 
Avoidant said:
Over the last couple years, I've had a few meltdowns. At first, he met them with care and concern. But as time went on, he just got angry at me and told me how I was to blame in one way or another. I have had a series of boyfriends and casual sex buddies....and he compares my dating to his relationship with his GF. The difference is...I'm not in love with my current partners. And he is deeply in love with his GF. I've told him I am giving up all dating...which pretty much means I'll be celibate, since he's not interested anymore. He has volunteered to end things, but I think he'll just resent me in the long run. He is a wonderful husband and has been doing his duties, but we're like roommates anymore. I just want someone to be in love with ME.
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Living like roommates is not "being a wonderful husband" in my opinion. Unless that's how you've agreed to live. You are right that asking him to end his relationship with his girlfriend would cause more harm than good. It sounds like you both have resentments to work through if you're going to salvage the relationship...adding more resentments by vetoing his gf won't help with that.

Have you considered therapy? Couples therapy could help both of you decide whether the relationship is salvageable...and if so, can help you get back on track. If not, it can help you break up amicably, too. If I had to choose between individual or couples therapy though, I'd always choose individual therapy. It can help you accept the state of your relationship, help you find solutions that may help salvage your relationship, and more importantly, help you build a better life for you, regardless of your relationship status.
 
Avoidant, hi and welcome to the forum.


How long have you been married to your husband ? And long long have you been open or poly ??

Also who’s idea was it to have an open or poly relationship style ??


I agree with PP that it does sound like your in poly hell. Demotion...roommates Displacement ...tag along, sex partner. Intrusion ...she’s always there and you feel like a third wheel.
 
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Avoidant said:
My relationship with my husband is not doing well over the past few years since he got a GF.
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It sounds more like your marriage is not going well and that's why he got a GF. More and more couples seem to be using "Hey, let's be poly" as a soft transition from one monogamous relationship to the next. Nobody here seems to really be interested in polyamory so much as fearful of ending the marriage.
 
Actually, we’ve been married nearly 30 years. We’ve been open for 7 years. He’s been with his GF for 2 1/2 years.. Our marriage has always been pretty fantastic. I just think my husband is a bad hinge. And I can’t shake the feeling that he isn’t mine anymore. I even feel like the outsider at home alone with him in bed. I’m tentative and not confident with my body and appearance where he’s concerned. So I know it’s affecting how I treat him and that’s affecting his sexual performance with me. I don’t know if I’m not cut out for poly, or if our situation is asking too much of me.
 
I'm at a loss of how to reconnect with my husband. I told him yesterday I wanted a separation.
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If that's where you are at and what you want? Separate. There's only so much trying to connect you can do. If the other person doesn't want to connect back... it falls flat. :(

What are your separation plans? Are you moving to a new flat? Is he?

Over the last couple years, I've had a few meltdowns. At first, he met them with care and concern. But as time went on, he just got angry at me and told me how I was to blame in one way or another.
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I'm sorry he doesn't really hear you and decides to blame rather than work something out.

He has volunteered to end things, but I think he'll just resent me in the long run.
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And ending things with the GF doesn't automatically mean paying attention to you again and stopping the neglect. He could take up bowling or golfing all the time and then what? You are still meh and taken for granted.

He is a wonderful husband and has been doing his duties, but we're like roommates anymore. I just want someone to be in love with ME.
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You sound like you are grieving it has come to this place. I'm sorry. :(

I just think my husband is a bad hinge.
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Sounds like he's not balancing his time between partners very well. And/or he's fallen out of love with you but doesn't want to say. Sometimes people use poly for a soft exit.

If you decided you are done participating in this poly model like THIS... and nothing is really changing no matter how you try to tell him?

Perhaps separation will work out.

  • Either wake him up to the fact that this marriage is circling the drain and move toward repairs

  • Or help you attain some peace/healing so you can finish separating.

Whichever way it turns out to be, I wish you well.

I can imagine this is a tough time. :(

Galagirl
 
To me this sounds like the marriage is over problem rather than a kitchen table poly problem.
 
Hello Avoidant,

You definitely have too much kitchen table poly here, plus your husband is a bad hinge. He should be working on repairing his marriage with you separately from his relationship with his girlfriend. It sounds like your sex life with your husband has taken a serious downward turn. He has stopped feeling turned on by you. Has he talked to you about what the reason is? Has he talked about what he can do to make things better?

He definitely seems to be caught up in NRE, NRE can cause him to stop paying attention to you. You need more time with him when the girlfriend is not around; to facilitate that, he needs to agree to not have her around all the time. You probably feel like you don't have any rights, but you do have rights. Tell him that you are his wife, and as such, you deserve some time alone with him without his girlfriend being around.

I'm so sorry that you find yourself in this predicament, I hope you can work things out with him.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Avoidant said:
I just think my husband is a bad hinge.
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I know this is a popular buzz phrase, but I don't think it's particularly helpful or even relevant to what is going on with your association with this person.

Avoidant said:
I can’t shake the feeling that he isn’t mine anymore.
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That seems clear enough. I agree with other posters that this doesn't sound like a poly problem at all. What you're describing is someone who isn't in to you.
 
I think there could be more at play than being a bad hinge. The reason I asked how or why you decided to open your marriage was it could give us a glimpse as to what was the motivation back then and who was pushing that idea.

For example from other cases that have rolled through the forum where the relationship was stale or broken and one partner was looking for change as mentioned patch work of need fulfillment. Or someone push for this but doesn’t see how things could boomerang back against them. An example from memory was bored housewife pushes mono husband into poly. He struggles with it for a number of yrs ( 4 maybe 6 ) the wife’s bf ended up being her dom /master which created a host of issues one being dependency and neglect/ intrusion. And what I mean by dependency was most things had to be run by or cleared by the dom first. Also she either had to see her dom ( in person) or just wanted to however the outcome was the same she always at his home late afternoon and early evening Example 4:30- 6-6:30.

He finally decides what the hell Im not getting any younger and my concerns aren’t being taken seriously and nothing’s really changing so he decides to start dating too. Then Oops he finds a younger more compatible GF and was on the forum asking if anyone had done a successful role switch from primary to secondary. PM me if you’d like his username to look up his old threads.


I’m also curious why with a series of BF or sex buddies you’d want to hang that up NOW. Or are you like the guy I’ve sited trying to make lemonade or of lemons.?
 
Without getting into too much detail, I have had a series of relationships of varying seriousness. I would have to admit that my end goal of dating was probably just to have someone to be with when I needed a date or overnight companion. While I like having the freedom to do what I want, I'm not really wanting a serious relationship with anyone else.

Without giving too many details, I have to attest that my husband and I have a very solid base of a marriage. He would never leave me. And he loves me and wants the best for us. I'm keeping this discussion going because I think it might help someone else someday.

Upon further reflection and discussion....I've compared our way of doing poly to not having a fence around my backyard. I love my friends and my meta. But sometime I need to just hang in my backyard with my husband without making it into a party with everyone else. That is our fault...we love being with our friends SO much that we haven't taken time for ourselves like we should. If we're bored...we hang with his meta and her husband. If we vacation...hey, wouldn't it be more fun with meta and her husband? If we go to a social event...are they coming, because if not, then I guess we won't go either. So it's a fun, but very BAD habit when it comes to the closeness of me and my husband.

I don't know how we're going to implement changes and what changes we're going to make. Any ideas??
 
Avoidant said:
Without getting into too much detail, I have had a series of relationships of varying seriousness. I would have to admit that my end goal of dating was probably just to have someone to be with when I needed a date or overnight companion. While I like having the freedom to do what I want, I'm not really wanting a serious relationship with anyone else.

Without giving too many details, I have to attest that my husband and I have a very solid base of a marriage. He would never leave me. And he loves me and wants the best for us. I'm keeping this discussion going because I think it might help someone else someday.

Upon further reflection and discussion....I've compared our way of doing poly to not having a fence around my backyard. I love my friends and my meta. But sometime I need to just hang in my backyard with my husband without making it into a party with everyone else. That is our fault...we love being with our friends SO much that we haven't taken time for ourselves like we should. If we're bored...we hang with his meta and her husband. If we vacation...hey, wouldn't it be more fun with meta and her husband? If we go to a social event...are they coming, because if not, then I guess we won't go either. So it's a fun, but very BAD habit when it comes to the closeness of me and my husband.

I don't know how we're going to implement changes and what changes we're going to make. Any ideas??
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The fact that you recognize that you've lost your 1 on 1 time more as a matter of habit than because you don't want time with each other is a great start. Is that something that you have both acknowledge out loud to each other? If not, I'd first suggest having that convo to make sure that you BOTH agree that this is the case. And if it is, then my recommendation would be to intentionally schedule dates for just the 2 of you, and mark it as a purposeful 1-on-1 thing. You can decide the frequency that you both feel would help. Bi-weekly, once a week, etc.
 
Avoidant said:
My relationship with my husband is not doing well over the past few years since he got a GF. We do everything together with his GF.
We go everywhere together. I always feel like a third wheel....He's mostly stopped having sex with me and actually told me that I don't do the right things to turn him on the way she can....I lay there and compare myself to her the whole time.
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You're describing something a lot more than simply a "habit" of his opting to add in her company. You said that this situation feels so bad for you that you've asked for a separation. Why now downplay your experience of ongoing total rejection as a silly reaction to his "habit" of inviting her along? This sounds like much deeper an issue than can be solved by a few schedule adjustments.

:confused:
 
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I don't know how we're going to implement changes and what changes we're going to make. Any ideas??
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To me it sounds like poly hell.

I suppose you could read that together -- esp the intrusion part. See if he can hear you then.

One change you both could make is to spend SOME time together as just you and hubby. Not all the time in "group" socializing. How you do it is choosing to change behaviors.

Upon further reflection and discussion....I've compared our way of doing poly to not having a fence around my backyard. I love my friends and my meta. But sometime I need to just hang in my backyard with my husband without making it into a party with everyone else.
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Fair enough. Every dyad needs its own private time. The (you + husband) dyad hasn't been getting that from the sound of it.

Does he not agree? Does he WANT to spend time with just you? If he just doesn't want to, he doesn't want to. You cannot MAKE him.

That is our fault...we love being with our friends SO much that we haven't taken time for ourselves like we should. If we're bored...we hang with his meta and her husband. If we vacation...hey, wouldn't it be more fun with meta and her husband? If we go to a social event...are they coming, because if not, then I guess we won't go either. So it's a fun, but very BAD habit when it comes to the closeness of me and my husband.
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So that's what your husband does? Instantly insert the meta (and her hubby) in to plans?

You suddenly changed to "we" talk when in the first few posts you were talking about you feeling frustrated and NOT wanting all this togetherness with the meta.

Assuming both want this thing to change...

Who is doing the objectionable behavior? :confused:

  • If it is coming from you, cut it out. Stop including them in everything, esp when it's supposed to be "you + husband" only time.

  • If it is coming from him, if he does it again and asks "Won't it be more fun?" Say "No, thanks. This one is supposed to be just (you + me) time. We can hang with them another time."

If you have already done all that? Already read poly hell? Said "No thanks" if he tries to insert them and then he does it anyway? He turns down your attempts to make couple dates with him? He's neglecting to ask you out for just (you + him) time?

If he cannot hear you when you talk to him about it? Could try something different: Stop talking. Take action.

Accept that he doesn't hear you right now. Be done with the same ol' same ol' since it sounds like it bothers you a lot. Move on to separation.

I know separation is not a decision taken lightly. But if you that's where you are at? Accept that separation is where you are at. Then at least YOU get a break from all this "togetherness" with the meta. And you get some time and space apart to think about whether you want to try to mend things one more time or if you are approaching or already at the "too little too late" place. Like you are DONE done.

If you cannot afford to move out, but have another bedroom? Move to that bedroom. Separate what you can. Banks, chores, etc. If he's fallen out of love with you and you guys are roomies? Be just roomies til you can afford to move out for a full on trial separation.

I'm sorry you are dealing in this. It sounds rough. :(

Galagirl
 
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Hello, Avoidant.

I am very new to all of this myself so I am not one to give much advice but I wanted to say I am sorry you are in the place you are. I don't really know that much about being poly -- it's why I am here (former swinger with the ex, GF has a new BF and I'm trying to be supportive) -- but I have been married before and that marriage ended like yours is going now.

The wife met a guy, fell in love, and our marriage ended. It could have happened if we were monogamous, it's just that being swingers gave us the chance to have sex with other people and get closer while if our marriage had been closed, she might not have taken that step. Or she might have cheated. I don't know. It took me a while to admit our marriage had come to an end and the BF just made it all clearer.

You said he is with her all of the time or you are with her and her husband? Like every weekend? How much does he see just her? How much is he with just you? Im asking because this has been a HUGE topic in our house lately. My GF K is seeing J. She wants to spend at least one, if not two nights a week with him. She would be with me the other 5 except when one of us travels for work. Sometimes that leaves us with only 3 or 4 days in a week to see each other and she wants to still give J one or two of those nights. I get that she wants to see him and am trying to not be selfish or jealous. It's hard sometimes though.

You also said you opened your marriage 7 years ago. Whose idea was that? Has either of you had this serious of a relationship before? If this his first GF? Have you ever had a BF? (Maybe you need one.)

I'm really sorry you are hurting. I hope he starts to listen to you and hearing you.

Marc
 
Hello, Avoidant!

First, I'm very sorry you are struggling with all of this. **hugs**

So I have this straight: you opened your marriage, you had an occasional date while hubby was away, hubby found someone he clicked with (did he casually date before the GF?), and now you feel unhappy and left out and might even want to insist on going back to mono. Is that correct?

You are on the other side of the problem from me. I am the one with the BF, hubby has occasional hook ups, and he can't handle it and wants us to get out.

Let me start by telling you (and PLEASE don't take offense at this) that you need to step back and think-- is it REALLY the GF who is at the root of our problems or is it something else? Personally I think it IS her, but not in the way you think.

You say you do everything with the GF, but later said her and her husband. So it is not as though the 3 of you are together often but the 4 of you? Do your husband and she ignore the two of you when you are together or do you just "feel" ignored? Where is her husband with all of this?

You say you've had a few meltdowns in the past. What does that look like? You say he once met your concerns with compassion but is now angry. What are your concerns? Your insecurities? What do you want from him? As many have told you, if your meltdowns keep him from his GF, I can tell you--his anger is resentment. That's right where I am in my marriage right now.

You say you've had a series of BF's but it doesn't compare to his love for his GF. I agree that's apples and oranges but I can see where he's coming from.
You get to date, why shouldn't he? You also said you only date when he is out of town. Does GF go out of town with him? Im guessing you mean you have dates when he is not available but he wants to date and leave you on your own and you don't like it. Maybe you could date more or join a club or something to do on those nights? My mom lives close so I just go over there when A is gone.

I don't necessarily agree that your marriage wasn't going well and that is why he got a GF. At least not based on the information you've given us so far. I can tell you from my own experience that both my husband and I casually dated others and never even considered the idea of other long-term partners. It wasn't until I met my BF M that we had to talk about what loving others would mean to our marriage.

Several here suggested poly hell to you.I personally think you feel demoted because you don't have him (and his heart) 100%. You feel displaced because you've lost some of his time and attention. And you feel intruded on because your lives seem to overlap so much. I have to wonder-- how much of it is true "hell" and how much is it just how you are feeling?? Have the 4 of you all sat down and talked about boundaries and expectations? Maybe you could all agree to take turns going to some things and going together to others.

I am sad that you feel you are ready for a separation. I think there is a lot you could change before doing that. Are you in counseling?


I wish you lots of luck.
 
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