Trouble in Polyfidelitous Paradise

[GSAS082612]

I am AnaLisa. So for starters, I am 18. I am in a polyamorous relationship with a married couple I have known for 3 years. I have been friends with my girlfriend, Samantha, off and on, for three years. She and her husband/my boyfriend Glenn, have been married for a little more than one year. They share a two-year old daughter together and have a son on the way.

This all started with simply with Sam and me admitting our feelings for each other. Glenn wanted to be around to "supervise." He didn't have to be around. But he wanted to be able to see, because their relationship had been on the rocks with a cheating past between the two.

She and I started kissing, and the next thing I knew, it led to a threesome. I was in a monogamous relationship at that point, but ended it about two weeks after the three of us came to terms of having a relationship.

It started off hot and heavy, like any relationship, but now it's pretty much reached a dead point. I am rarely with Sam sexually alone. I was once, but that ended up being a fall-out and created an issue, because I am not comfortable with sexual actions below the belt. It's unusual to me. While she wanted more attention during sex, between all of us, she seems more so yearning to just be with Glenn. This relationship started off of simple nothings with Glenn. We were together to make Samantha happy. And maybe that was our problem.

But now, he and I are in love. I love him and her both. But it seems as if she is all too eager to pull us apart. She starts constant issues and seems really angry all the time. While she wants Glenn and me to develop, she gets really angry and somewhat jealous when I am with him, sexually and not. It gets frustrating because she is very needy and needs attention 24/7. And although I want to give that to her, I am the type that needs alone time and space. And yeah, I want and enjoy being with Glenn sexually, which lately has been very torn and scattered. We had a single escapade, him and me, being together 2 weeks ago, and I have been with him one time since, with her involved. She has been with him twice within the allotted time.

She complains she wants more "us" time, but she seems much more caught up in being with just Glenn. I understand that, because they are married, but I mean, I am a part of this, or at least I like to think I am. They want to do a handfasting ceremony this coming October, but I don't foresee that happening with how the relationship is now. I just want to fix this relationship and end the stupid issues we keep having. I love them, but sometimes I get to the point of saying, I can't take the bullshit any longer and I need an out. I love them both, I solemnly swear, but at what point are Samantha's pathetic firestarter arguments not worth it? If I can't keep her happy and am always wrong, when do I throw in the towel and say it is over?

 

[GalaGirl]

Bottom line? You are 18 years old and have a long life ahead. Why saddle yourself with a tumultous couple with a toddler and a soon-to-be-newborn so early in your young adult life? It sounds messy over there.

Especially when you already are feeling this:

It started off hot and heavy, like any relationship, but now it's pretty much reached a dead point.

I just want to fix this relationship and end the stupid issues we keep having. I love them, but sometimes I get to the point of saying, I can't take the bullshit any longer and I need an out. I love them both, I solemnly swear, but at what point are Samantha's pathetic fire starter arguments not worth it? If I can't keep her happy and am always wrong when, do I throw in the towel and say it is over?

Sometimes it is safer to love from a distance and break up because up because the relationship is just not good for your short term or long term health in all your buckets -- mental health, emotional health, physical health, and spiritual health. Love doesn't automatically equal "staying-ness."

You are responsible for yourself, and that includes the company you keep. If you do not put your own oxygen mask on and look out for your best health, who will?

In this case, I think the short term "ugh" of a breakup is less stinky than the never-ending stink from staying in this situation. If you want to try to cope with the jealousy, perhaps some of this will help. But it takes all parties putting in effort. If it's just you -- it probably is at the dead point. One person alone cannot keep a thing going.

If you feel done here, throw in the towel, heal, and then reach for your next future happiness when you are ready.

Namaste,
Galagirl

 

[IndieSolo]

You have a lot of living and growing to do. Don't waste your time with people who disrespect you.

 

[samines]

When I saw this...

You are 18 years old and have a long life ahead. Why saddle yourself with a tumultuous couple with a toddler and a soon-to-be-newborn so early in your young adult life?

... my first reaction was (as an 18 yr-old who has fallen twice for couples with kids) to buck against it. I hate it hearing that because I'm young, I should go practice dating mono for a while, or I should stay away from complicated situations, as if being older somehow makes the sacrifices more worth it? (I'm not saying that was what GalaGirl meant, but it's what her post triggered for me.)

I did want to weigh in. Regardless of your age, I agree that

It sounds messy over there.

There'll be other people out there. From what you've said, I'd throw in the towel. Sounds like you're giving up a lot to fit their vision for the relationship, and it's still not working. It doesn't sound like that holds much promise of changing.

 

[SchrodingersCat]

I hate it hearing that because I'm young, I should go practice dating mono for a while, or I should stay away from complicated situations- as if being older somehow makes the sacrifices more worth it? (I'm not saying that was what GalaGirl meant, but it's what her post triggered for me.)

Your triggers are your triggers, so fair enough... but GG wasn't suggesting that AnaLisa should go be mono. Just that this couple has a lot of baggage and it doesn't sound like they're doing anything about it.

I've seen her give the same advice to 40 year olds, so it's not about age. Some people just aren't worth it. People who drag you into their conflict, who push and pull you in every direction, who expect you to take all the flack... are not worth it.

In a nutshell, the problem in this situation is not caused by AnaLisa. She's caught in their whirlwind. As such, there's little to nothing she can do to change the existing situation. Samantha must learn to deal with her own jealousy. She must learn to make her words agree with her actions.

If AnaLisa and Sam have been together for 3 years and AL is 18 now, that means she was only 15 when they started dating. I'm assuming that means Sam isn't much older. I don't care if you think I'm being ageist: 18 is too young to marry. Your brain doesn't even finish growing until 25. At 18, you still have a biologically teenage brain. Shit, you have a literal teenage brain. EightTEEN.

Being 18 sucks. You're just old enough to think you're old enough. I know I was. I figured I had it all figured out. I figured I was sooo mature. My step-daughter is 19. She's the same way. It just comes with the territory.

Now I look back and LOL at myself. There's "mature for 18," there's "mature," and then there's "actually grown-up." And it's not until you get to the next stage that you can understand the difference. See, here I am, still thinking "I'm grown-up" because I pay bills, take care of a house, go to grad school, relate to other grown-ups... But I'm pretty sure that in another 10, 20 years, I'll look back at 30 and say "Man, I was still pretty dumb."

 

[BoringGuy]

Now I look back and LOL at myself. There's "mature for 18," there's "mature," and then there's "actually grown-up." And it's not until you get to the next stage that you can understand the difference. See, here I am, still thinking "I'm grown-up" because I pay bills, take care of a house, go to grad school, relate to other grown-ups... But I'm pretty sure that in another 10, 20 years, I'll look back at 30 and say "Man, I was still pretty dumb."

When I was 18, I didn't THINK i knew everything. I really DID know everything. Since then, I have forgotten a great deal of everything.

And I don't care if that makes me "ageist" either. It happens to be the truth. I'm just telling it like it is.

So my advice to all the 18 year-olds is to either stay 18 forever, or write down every thought you have so you can refer to it when you're over 40.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry that triggered you.

But I wasn't suggesting she give up on polyamory entirely. Just that since she felt it was at a dead point and they sound like "messy people" that she consider not being involved with them any more since they are not meeting her needs. Date people who are more compatible.

Some older people have an annoying habit of treating ALL 18 year olds like kids just because SOME 18 year olds have not reached their emotional maturity yet. Used to drive me nuts at that age! So I'm sorry you have experienced that to the place where it triggers you. Not everyone thinks "18 is just a kid."

I think if an 18 year old is ready to go there and assume the mantle of adulthood -- go! Do what needs doing in your life to leave the family of origin and start to fly on your own!

And part of knowing one's own adult business is knowing when to pull the plug on something that just isn't a runner and doesn't feed what needs feeding.

Namaste,
Galagirl

 

[YouAreHere]

So my advice to all the 18 year-olds is to either stay 18 forever, or write down every thought you have so you can refer to it when you're over 40.

That is, if your 40-year-old brain doesn't put its reading glasses on, look at it, and go, "Who wrote this crap?!"

 

[BoringGuy]

That is, if your 40-year-old brain doesn't put its reading glasses on, look at it, and go, "Who wrote this crap?!"

Oh, that has happened to me - with bad poetry no less. I guess staying 18 forever is the only way to know everything.

 

[GSAS082612]

I understand that being 18 makes me young but also very "immature" at time. But DON'T tell me what I should or shouldn't do. My boyfriend, girlfriend and I. Have talked it out, I have given them that much. Yes, we have our troubles and often never have a chance to sort them out till after all is said and done and someone has turned to online, as I have turned to here as a way to seek out those who are in a poly relationship.

 

[Tonberry]

I just finished answering your other thread about age gap, in which you talked about trying to get pregnant. I just wanted to add, make sure the problems in the relationship are fixed before you try for a pregnancy. I obviously don't know you personally so I don't know if it's your case, but a lot of people seem to assume that having a kid can "fix" a relationship, that once the baby is there things will fall into place.
That is NOT true, and having a baby can rock the healthiest of relationships. In a relationship that is already rocky, it can be disastrous. So, I'm not completely sure how to help your specific relationship, but at least delaying your own pregnancy would avoid worsening it even more.

Other than that, a lot of talking seems to be in order, and make sure you know what you want and stand for it.

 

[SchrodingersCat]

If I can't keep her happy and am always wrong when do I throw in the towel and say it is over?

But DON'T tell me what I should or shouldn't do.

No comment required.

 

[BoringGuy]

No comment required.

But if one were to comment anyway, one might admit to finding it amusing when a person posts a poll that essentially says "What should I do?" then writes in same said thread "Don't tell me what i should or shouldn't do."

Furthermore, it is worth observing that the OP writes a thread titled "Trouble... Etc." and in the next breath declares that they are "Trying for a baby" with another member of this "trouble."


Notice that I have not made any assumptions, nor have I indicated any judgement about age in this post. I am simply repeating what has been said by the OP and pointing out the functional discrepancies.

If I wanted to be judgmental, I'd talk about the innocent human the OP wants to create, and how that baby has no choice about being brought into a fucked-up situation. But since I'm trying to avoid being judgmental, I will keep my opinions to myself, since they were not asked for.

Do I at least grasp the gist of it? Or should I start a separate thread with a poll asking that very question?

 

[LovingRadiance]

So do you or don't you want advice? Because you asked for advice and then demanded we not give it.

Color me perplexed. Reminds me of when I was a kid.

 

[GalaGirl]

So do you or don't you want advice? Because you asked for advice and then demanded we not give it.
Color me perplexed. Reminds me of when I was a kid.

It doesn't perplex me. It's not the giving of the advice. It's the manner in which it is given, and if that manner can be well received or not.

GSAS082612 did not share her preferences for how she wants the advice given, other than as a poll. People have voted in the poll part. Right now it is 100% to end the relationship, which can be hard to digest.

Some have given additional comments, taking a shot in the dark to try to help. Since no additional direction/preference for tone/focus area was given for that part of it, it cannot be helped that it will be a mixed bag.

In future, GSAS082612 could state how she would prefer the advice be presented so she can best receive it in her upset condition. People will either try to do so or not. (In her second thread, she has given preferences for how the feedback could be presented. So good for you, GSAS082612, for doing that! I hope you use that skill in talking to your polyship people.)

Since it seems like you talked to your polyship people, was a satisfactory conclusion reached? Some kind of solution to try out for the next chunk of time to see if you needs are better met? For your sake, I hope so.

Don't be afraid to walk away, though, if your needs are chronically not met in this relationship and you are unable to thrive. You are an adult person in an adult relationship. You choose what you are willing to tolerate in return for your needs being met. Don't tolerate shenanigans. Nobody deserves endless nonsense and neglect!

I put a "three strikes, you're out" in my playbook for how I want to be treated in relationships for two reasons.

1) If the other person is still on the same chronic issue, and I've had to bring it to their attention three times, it shows me they aren't seriously trying to mend it.

2) If I've had to bring it up three times, it shows me my needs are still not being met. It prevents me from letting my emotional attachment to the person make excuses for their behavior, them not being present and responsible in the relationship (oh, they are tired from work, they don't really mean it, etc.), and override what is best for my long-term health.

Again, I hope, for your sake, talking to your partners was constructive and led to a possible solution to try out so your needs are going to be met now. But if your needs are not going to be met, do not tolerate shenanigans. You could start counting "strikes" there. I put my limit at three Maybe you put your limit at five. But wherever it is you put it, do have a limit.

Did you get all the feedback you needed from this thread? Was there anything else you needed?

Good luck to you in your situation. I hope it gets better for you.

 

[IndieSolo]

Does Jerry Springer still have a show?

Ahem.

 

[SchrodingersCat]

I put a "three strikes you are out" in my playbook for how I want to be treated in relationships.

1) If the other person is still on the same chronic issue and I've had to bring it up three times, it shows me they aren't seriously trying to mend that.

2) If I've had to bring it up three times, it shows mr my needs are still not being met, prevents me from letting my emotional attachment to the person make excuses for their behavior, them not being present and responsible in the relationship (they are tired from work, they don't really mean it, etc.) and override what is best for my long-term health.

I'm curious about this, GG. To which sorts of things does this apply? To me, patience while people work on growth and self-improvement is part of love.

E.g., some people have issues they've been working on for years, things stemming from childhood upbringing or major trauma later on. In those cases, it's not like there's a switch you can just flick after the first strike. None of these are things that randomly crop up after 2 years or anything. They're things I learn about within the first few months, and then decide whether or not to accept in the relationship. If I decide to accept them, I don't think it's fair to keep bringing them up unless they start to regress.

 

[GalaGirl]

To which sorts of things does this apply? To me, patience while people work on growth and self-improvement is part of love.

I agree, patience is important. But endless patience is not a right.

They're things I learn about within the first few month and then decide whether or not to accept in the relationship. If I decide to accept them, I don't think it's fair to keep bringing them up unless they start to regress.

I agree, and that's what I'm talking about-- that time in new relationships (to me, that's in the 6-24 mos bracket of NRE-time ending and the relationship getting serious) where boundaries are being established, people are learning each others wants, needs, and limits and are setting up foundation skills like how to communicate, how to resolve conflict.

In that early-relationship time period, the "right to responsiveness" and the "right to clear communication" would be something that could be a dealbreaker for me. (You can click on my name to get the full list of my own preferences in relationship.)

I expect my partner to talk to me in appropriate ways, to respond when I ask what is going on. I don't want to be shut out, and I don't want to be a mind reader. But how can one have a relationship with there's no back=and-forth relating happening?

In this particular case, one problem the OP is posting about is one partner who seems really angry all the time, causes "fire starter arguments" and being pretty fed up with this behavior. Picking a fight on purpose is not a healthy conflict-resolution style for a long-term relationship. Conflict does not have to be all-out war with a partner. It is an opportunity for growth and understanding. You may not agree, but you can try to see things from the other guy's point of view and deal with conflict calmly.

If the partner is trying to find new ways communicate and putting in an effort, okay. We don't have to expect perfection from the get-go. We can be patient as they try to read, learn new techniques, deal with anger better, etc.

But if the partner is not putting any effort at all to address this behavior, continues to lash out even after being told this is hurtful, does the OP want to spend eternity with this partner, where every future conflict becomes a volatile ordeal to have to get through? That's very draining. It is not loving, kind behavior.

OP could bring it up X times. See if it changes or if reasonable efforts are being made. I choose three. She could choose five times, 10 times. Whatever. Just have some kind of limit. If the limit is reached and it just is not changing and no effort is being made, break it off, or accept that this will never change, and is part of the price of admission to be in a relationship with this person.

I think people in loving relationship deserve to be treated with loving, kind behavior. They do not have to put up with shenanigans that are hurtful to their well-being.

 

[SchrodingersCat]

Okay, I hear where you're coming from now. I agree, if I can see signs that someone is trying, I'm far more likely to be patient.

For me, I'm closer to "one strike" with certain behaviours. In the early stages of a relationship, I have a tendency to assume that if you'll do something hurtful once, you'll probably do it repeatedly. Sure, mistakes happen. But I'm pretty good at telling the difference between someone being careless once, and just being an inconsiderate person in general. I don't give the latter a lot of leeway.

 

[Becca]

When I was 18 (and 21, and 25), I was far more likely to put up with bullshit in bad relationships. When I love, I feel intensely loyal, and it is very difficult to make decisions about what I need to do to take care of myself.

But the most important thing I've learned over time is devote more energy and loyalty to myself. That has given me valuable relationship skills, and has helped me develop healthier and stronger relationships with my lovers.

To the OP: Those of us who are significantly older than you have had the experience of living through and learning from some hard knocks, and of course we would like to somehow communicate to you what that's like, and what we've learned. You, of course, are not going to be able to hear that. And honestly, you shouldn't. There's no reason for you to "skip ahead" and try to look at things with the jaded eyes of a 30-something or 40-something or 50-something, etc. They say you shouldn't trust anyone over 30, and there's a reason for that. Be 18. Experience 18.

You describe a mess of a relationship, but this is the time of your life to be experiencing that. I could suggest that you leave this couple in the dust and go out in search of happier, healthier relationships, but you're not going to know what those relationships are like unless you ride this one into the bitter ground.

Meanwhile, though, take notes. Keep a journal. Learn from your mistakes. And try to do something generous for who you will be in 3, 5, 10 years: don't do anything permanent. Avoid the heavy drugs, and the babies, and over-spending on credit cards. Be very cautious about student loans-- you can't wipe those out in a bankruptcy.

As for this relationship, try talking to your partners about your feelings. Use "I feel" statements, rather than "you should" or "you do this" or "you do that." Pay attention to what works in conversation, and what causes arguments. Speaking with a low tone, quiet voice, can sometimes keep the arguments from starting. Don't keep a tally of who has sex with who. Keep a tally, instead, of how many nights you feel alone and sexually frustrated, how many days you feel unhappy with the relationships, as opposed to how many days you feel satisfied. Use that to judge how much more energy to put into this. And good luck.