Unbinding the briars of my joys & desires

Thank you all for your comments concerning how to best deal with Monkey. Things are changing rapidly there, I hope for the better.

She told me the other day "It's OK, I figured it out. She's the girlfriend and she wins. I shouldn't try to compete for time or attention." Which...wasn't exactly the lesson I was hoping she'd take away, but it was better than the alternatives so... baby steps.

Man, it's been emotional lately. The monkey stuff I've talked about until I don't wanna discuss it anymore. Suffice to say we are limiting the time we're spending together even more. I'm probably seeing her less than half of what I was before I started dating Bluebird. Maybe that's good. I would be lying though, if I didn't say that I find that scary, because if things don't work out for some reason with Bluebird, I'll be alone for 90% of my time. For someone like me, that's a really bad place to be. (Before anyone says "well just make more friends" I don't do that. I've only ever had 2 or 3 good friends at a time, my entire life. Some people aim for quantity of friends, but I'm more a quality person. If I call you my friend, you can have an organ if you need it.) It's scary, but I guess it's a consequence I'll have to face if that happens. I guess you can't make a leap of faith while clinging to the safety of the wall, but it sure feels scary.

Emotional. Bluebird...man, that's been crazy too. I've been so busy lately with Work and other stuff. It's 1:15 in the morning and I have work tomorrow, but I felt like I needed to get some stuff out. Which is a long winded way of saying that so much has happened with Bluebird that I'm sure to leave some out. Maybe I'll just go with the most recent.

Bluebird and I went to dinner the other night, and during our meal I expressed a growing concern that I've had. I feel like although Bluebird loves me very much, exactly the way a girlfriend should love a boyfriend, as far as our activities together, I'm basically filling the role of a FWB. I pick her up, we go out, eat dinner, have a date then back to some bed or other for sex. Rinse and repeat. (I can hear some of my guy friends playing "the world's smallest violin" and saying "OH! We feel SO fucking sorry for you! How do you live with only having fun dates and awesome sex and no responsibilities?!" Yeah, yeah, but I want more than that. Bluebird is amazing.)

This observation seemed to really upset Bluebird. I hadn't meant for it to. So we talked for a while about our options. I explained that I felt like while the relationship escalator was something I was interested in, I felt like I might not have time to let it take it's natural course before she and her spouses decided it was time to leave. This also upset her, because she thought that I was saying that I was faking all this enthusiasm out of a desire to not lose her. I said no, that if I lost her, that would be what it was, but that I certainly didn't want that to happen, and it was something I was afraid of. Specifically, I was afraid that it would happen precisely because I was unwilling to artificially accelerate things to "tie myself" to her and her family. I expressed that I felt like there wasn't really room in her life for me to ever show my real mettle, outside of dates because if anything arose that she needed a partner for, she already had two who usually made more sense to call on. If one partner didn't want or couldn't have her sleep with them, she wasn't going to call me. Instead she'll pad 1o feet down the hall to the other husband. If she needed a ride somewhere, or any help, I won't be the guy to call, because I'm financially, relationshipally (yes, it's a word, don't worry about looking it up) temporally and geographically more distant than the other two guys. What significant life activity besides dating will we ever do together? When she dated Darkknight, it was just the two of them. There was lots to deal with, but they did it together. It wasn't all fun and dates and sex. When she started dating PunkRock, She lived with him for half of the week (at least for a time). When Darkknight's father died, Punkrock was able to be there for Bluebird. The two of us? I'll never be...needed really, for anything. (yeah, I know, "she needs you just for you". But I think you know what I mean by needing real life experiences to form a real bond with a partner). I've since come to think of this whole thing as "#3 blues" There are shit-tons of things that are obstacles for us, for no reason other than I'm number 3. In the end, we said that while it was still early to be talking about it (Yes, we both said it, although readers of Bluebird's journal might think it was only her that spoke of caution at this early stage, grrrr) we would cautiously approach the idea of me cohabitating with them. I suggested and it was agreed that we table that until after the holidays and see if we even still liked each other after all that.


Later Bluebird and I went and saw a play at the local playhouse. Her husband Darkknight was in it, and it was really excellent. There was the usual weirdness of being out with Bluebird in a place where people knew her, but weren't aware that she was poly, and a few looks by people who saw her holding hands and kissing both of us, but nothing major. The show was great, and the company was better. I really enjoy hanging out with Darkknight. He's one of those people who just always seems happy and calm. No wonder Bluebird likes him.

Later that night on the ride home, Bluebird casually mentioned that she was going to be alone all afternoon Sunday. I said "Why don't you come over and hang with me at Monkey's house for a few of those hours?" This began a long and upsetting argument. Bluebird basically took the approach that I was being a troublemaker, that Monkey wouldn't like that, and that I shouldn't rock the boat. I took the approach that I was sick and fucking tired of worrying about what Monkey wanted, and having her dictate when I could and couldn't spend time with my girlfriend. I pointed out that Monkey would have her SO present, so why not mine? I also pointed out that it was never my understanding that this would be private "Monkey and Warman" time. Only that she could expect that I would be there to hang out on Sundays. I got a bit heated and annoyed. After a few minutes I said 'OK, I won't ask her, no big deal" and was ready to let it go, but Bluebird wasn't and she kept bringing up other points. We were almost to my doorstep, and she said "where did our nice night go? This discussion has ruined it." I said "Really? This little talk ruined our entire night out?" She opined that it at least WAS ruining it. I pointed out to her that she was the one who insisted on having the talk, and continueing it. I then offered to take her home, if she was no longer in the mood to spend the night with me. This was the first of my major mistakes which I made in complete ignorance. She declined my offer and said she wanted to stay with me. I agreed and said I was glad, that I wanted her to stay also. At this point I considered the matter over. As you ladies out there may have guessed at this point, I'm kinda dumb.

(continued in part 2)
 
(continued)

--I have to break here to tell you something that has bearing on the story. So, if you've been reading here or elsewhere, you may know that we haven't been able to have penetrative sex for more than a week due to medical issues on Bluebird's part. That being the case, both of us were really looking forward to this evening, and I had promised that I would be (and been looking forward to, as had she) pounding that pussy like it owed me money and had called my sister ugly.--

So. We get inside and bluebird is suddenly turning down all attempts to get sexy. She throws on clothes and jumps in bed as quick as she can. Confused, but not sure what is happening still, I climb in bed. (see previous statement about my obvious mental deficiencies) Bluebird instantly tells me that if I ever ask her if she wants to go home again she will take me up on it. At this point I'm confused. I offered her that, fully believing that she MIGHT say "yes, that's for the best." I expressed that to her, and repeated that it would have made me sad if she did, but that I would have understood and honored her request, and that I'd rather she went home than stayed with me and been furious and wishing she was elsewhere. She seemed to think it was some kind of negotiating tactic. Again, i apologized and said that I was sorry I had offended, and that I hadn't meant to. She rolled over and I rubbed her back for a minute, and she was asleep 5 minutes later. I laid there in bed for a while and had terrible flashbacks to other relationships. I had really been looking forward to having a sexual connection with Bluebird. Laying there I felt frustrated and angry, that simple disagreements over whether or not I was being fair to someone else, and whether or not an offer was genuine were allowed to get in the way of our time together. I finally got up and played on my computer. I was tempted to masturbate to relieve the frustration, but it wouldn't have worked, so I didn't. I didn't get to bed until late. **I should mention here that Bluebird said that she was just too tired for sex that night, which was likely true, but the previous conversations during the week about looking forward to this time, and the fight right before, cast some doubt in my mind**

The next morning Bluebird seemed recovered, but I was not. I was still hurting from the rejection and disappointment of the night before. In my relationship previous to this one, My ex would often promise sex, and then tell me she was too tired after we had been out and done the things she wanted to do. While intellectually I know that isn't Bluebird's game, I still feel an unpleasant mixture of shame and frustration when stuff like this happens (let me digress here to say that I would NEVER want Bluebird or anyone to have sex with me if they weren't in the mood for it. That doesn't stop me from feeling disappointed however). It took me a while to shake those feelings, but eventually I did, and we ended up having some fun. By that time, it was very close to the time I would normally drop Bluebird off and head to Monkey's house for the time that Bluebird had been so strongly defending the night before. Now however, Bluebird said that she didn't want me to drop her off, and maybe I should contact Monkey. I was frustrated by her turn around, but since that was my plan anyway, I didn't argue. Monkey expressed that she would feel uncomfortable doing that, as her house was a mess. I said "yeah, but you don't worry about it when X and his husband come over" and she said "yes, but that's because I've known them for years now, when they were new, I felt the same way about them." I conceded the point, and told her that I would be over sans Bluebird, but that I would probably be late.

I took Bluebird home, but by the time we got there, she was feeling really blue. So I went inside and cuddled her on the couch for a while. She was worried about it being "monkey's time" but I told her that SHE was my girlfriend, and that her emotional well-being was important and took precedence, and that was really what I was trying to show her. As often happens, after the comforting there is an increased love and desire for the other person, and Although I was already quite late for "Monkey time" I went upstairs with her and had a pretty long and involved sex session. It was great, and I didn't rush anything. I wanted Bluebird to feel important.

Of course, this is when everything went to shit.

When we finished, I pulled bluebird over to my shoulder and said "Come here for some cuddles , I'll need to go soon. :( " Instantly Bluebird rolled away from me. At first I thought she was being playful and tried to pull her back. I was quickly shown the error of my ways when it became clear that she was on the verge of crying. She ran over and dressed and then lay facing away from me. I kept saying 'I'm sorry honey, can you please tell me what I did wrong?" She finally did. With some heat she told me that basically I had made her feel like a cheap whore. This completely blew me away, as everything from me even walking in the door was about trying to show her she was important. She KNEW that I was potentially going to be facing upset from monkey for having stayed, but that I had done so anyway. Before we even went upstairs we both said "well, we'll have to be quick(ish)" which we weren't. I just hadn't thought about it at all, so instead of being diplomatic or clever, I just spoke the exact words that were on my mind at the time. I had NO intention of rushing our cuddle time either...I was just expressing that it was a sad thing that I would need to leave and that I wanted some cuddles before I did so. It took a long time for Bluebird to calm down, but by the time I left we seemed to be OK again and we both parted (I believe) happily.

So, I left and went to monkey's house, expecting a fight about how deeply I had cut into "her only time to hang out with me" but she didn't. In some ways it was almost worse, because I got the feeling she was basically saying 'OK, I give up, go away if you want to." which made me kind of sad, but if that's what has to happen to date Bluebird, then I guess that's what has to happen, though I would not prefer it be that way. The rest of the day I was kind of walking on eggshells, and managed to offend Monkey several times as well, completely accidentally, in much the same manner that I had with Bluebird.

Turns out I'm just not very good at women.

I also managed to really upset Bluebird today on her "superbetter" thing. When she signed me up I wanted to be as helpful as possible, so I gave her what I thought was a small quest. My "small quest" ended up giving her a major panic attack. I felt like such a dick. Once again I had managed to hurt her, completely by accident. It made me feel really inept at handling her feelings. I guess normally, with a girlfriend I wouldn't be as upset by that as I was with Bluebird, because I know that she has two guys who understand her better than I do. I'm afraid that they are having to comfort her after I get her all upset. :/ I hope that isn't the case.

On a positive note however, when I saw Bluebird tonight, she asked me to go ahead with the compliment, and she did really great accepting it. We had a fun game and some nice smooches. I'm really looking forward to seeing her tomorrow.

I haven't done a very good job taking care of the women I love this last week. I haven't meant to hurt them, but I seem to have anyway. I'm determined to do better this next week.
 
WarMan said:
I haven't done a very good job taking care of the women I love this last week. I haven't meant to hurt them, but I seem to have anyway. I'm determined to do better this next week.
Click to expand...

IMO, that's one of the worst feelings in the world: completely accidentally hurting someone. It's different if you know you are in a bad mood and being a little bratty or snarky—you can kind of expect to reap negative consequences from having a shit attitude. But when it happens and you have no idea how right at first, it's terrifying, because what's to stop it from happening again? When it happens to me, I always feel so helpless and so clueless, and like other people are alien landscapes that I will never be able to successfully traverse.
 
Reverie said:
IMO, that's one of the worst feelings in the world: completely accidentally hurting someone. It's different if you know you are in a bad mood and being a little bratty or snarky—you can kind of expect to reap negative consequences from having a shit attitude. But when it happens and you have no idea how right at first, it's terrifying, because what's to stop it from happening again? When it happens to me, I always feel so helpless and so clueless, and like other people are alien landscapes that I will never be able to successfully traverse.
Click to expand...

You hit it right on the head. Several times the last week not only had I not intended to hurt, I wasn't even sure how/what I'd done. It's a very uneasy feeling. That's OK, better times ahead I hope.
 
Bluebird mentioned that she is stressed because she feels like she doesn't get enough time with Darkknight, and Punkrock feels like he doesn't get enough time with her, and while I'm doing OK with the time allotted to me, I do miss her when she's not around. Time management has become a major hassle for her I'm afraid, and to a lesser degree the guys as well.

She says that she doesn't regret finding me, but I really worry. While it would really devastate me to lose her at this point, it would be worse to love her and end up ruining the good things she already has. :( I don't think that there is anything I can do, but I'm still pretty worried about it. I'd really hate to end up being a bad thing for Bluebird long term. I'd hate to end up being a bad thing for Darkknight or Punkrock too...

I had a really nice night with Bluebird last night. We had dinner and a long cuddle. Only nice things were discussed and all was well with us. I spent about an hour just telling Bluebird all of the reasons I love her so much. She seemed surprised that I could name so many things, but it was really just the surface of it, there are so many reasons why she's really good for me. I had a really nice day today with her today also. We were low key, but it was nice. Was disappointed to see her go tonight, especially since I probably won't see her again until the weekend, but I'm really grateful for the time and effort she puts into seeing me.
 
Bluebird was sick all weekend. :(

She started coming down with it Friday evening, and by Saturday morning She was sniffling, blowing her nose constantly, and just feeling miserable.

We canceled our picnic plans and instead I sat on the couch and rubbed her legs for her while we watched some trashy reality TV on netflix.

Eventually I had a painting class with Punkrock and Monkey and her husband, which went really well. Punkrock is a good teacher, and we all enjoyed the class a lot. During the class Bluebird rested upstairs in her bed.

After Monkey and Her hubby left, I went up and cuddled her a little bit before we went to our movie. I tired and tried to convince her that she was too sick for the movie, but she insisted we both really enjoyed The Martian quite a bit.

Afterwards we came home and despite not feeling great, Bluebird and I talked about some things that really were bothering me. She was kind and understanding, and it really left me feeling better. Afterwards we were cuddling and I was trying to help her fall asleep by talking. (which is something we do). I started telling her the story of my Mormon mission, but that was too interesting, and she didn't want to sleep, so i switched to "Warman meets Bluebird". Apparently my telling of the story was so sweet that Bluebird got a bit excited and we ended up fooling around a bit, although her energy ran out before we could finish much. Bluebird was just so sick she couldn't sleep. She finally drifted off about 6 AM, and I got to sleep around 6:30. We were up the next day before 10. I woke feeling OK, and we resumed some of our fun-times, but then about Mid-day I started to feel run down too. Which I knew was a risk, but I'm on call this week, so the timing is pretty crummy.

Things with Monkey are pretty tense. We keep running into things and just aren't able to communicate. It's a tough spot, because I can't talk about Monkey with Bluebird, and I can't talk about Bluebird with Monkey. Very frustrating at times.

All in all, despite sickness and a lack of sleep, I really enjoyed seeing Bluebird again, now this week we all get to try out the new schedule and see how we like it. Fingers Crossed...
 
Can I ask you a question? Do(or have) any of you suspect(ed) or know(n) that your partner enjoys(ed) an activity with one of their partners more than you? Or that they are more interested, or more "into" it? How do(did) you deal with it? I know some people are just not bothered by that idea at all, maybe those folks could help, but I'd really like to hear from people who were bothered by it and got over it, and how you did it. Maybe it was all in your head, if so, how did you come to that realization and how did you banish it?


I had a nice day today. Work has been really stressful, and I'm on call all this week (5AM-5PM workdays, minimum, possibly much more. FML), but that aside, it was an OK day. Even though the boss of my boss called me twice today wanting explanations for various important issues.

I chatted with Bluebird on the interwebs all day today. Man, thank god for tech. I don't get to be with/see her all the time, but with tech, we can chat, even while I'm working. It's nice. We talked about the future. The possibility of cohabitation in the future, what that might look like, what it might mean to my career and their dreams for the future. I expressed that I'm really worried about "killing their dreams". I understand that I might be part of Bluebird's dream now, but I'm pretty worried about hurting Darkknight's or Punkrock's dream, or their collective dream for the future. Bluebird was very reassuring about the whole thing, but I think that until I know the boys better and really believe that they are OK with changing all this, I'm going to feel a little uneasy about it.

Tonight was my date night, but NOT my overnight. We're trying out the new schedule. The new schedule makes me nervous, but We're trying it out. Bluebird is still sick, so we sat on the couch, had some nice cuddles and watched a movie she was amazed I had not seen, Silver Linings Playbook...It was good, not the kind of thing I would normally watch, but the acting was good. It was a bit hard for me to watch, especially the beginning. One of the characters is a Bi-polar person, and watching his actions, especially at the beginning of the movie, was really hard for me, and brought back lots of bad memories. Despite that, it was a good movie, and I was glad we watched it.

I've been struggling with some feelings of jealousy lately. I want to talk about it, but at the same time I don't want to feel like a little bitch. Does that make sense to anyone? How do people talk about jealousy without feeling like they are jerkfaces for even having the feelings? Especially when they know that the people involved might read it? What I hate about this feeling, is I never know if it's justified (is there such a thing?) or whether it's all in my head. That feeling is really disturbing to me, because part of my Bi-polar disorder included believing things about other people that simply weren't true. Paranoia. So, questioning my feelings reminds me of that whole scene, and is in itself, somewhat upsetting. Man, I don't know if I'm making any sense at all.

Jealousy Example: (disclaimer, this has not happened) Let's say you washed the dishes. Your SO walks by and says "Oh, you washed the dishes, thanks." and then walks on by. Later in the day, there are more dishes, your SO's boyfriend washes them and suddenly it's time for a parade in their honor, they've done such a great thing! There is a special reward in store for them baby! ;)

Is that something to be bothered about? I can hear some people saying "Oh, well they are probably just trying to get the second person to do it more often", but is that cool? Should you be bothered by that? Is it worth bringing up, or is it all just YOUR problem and you should let it drop or deal with it yourself? I'd love to hear opinions from the more experienced.

I wanted to take a minute to thank everyone reading for the great advice you've given already. It's nice to have a place to ask questions. Right now I'm in a difficult place. I wish I knew some poly people in the real world I could talk to. Talking face to face with friends has always been my thing, but right now I'm in a place where I can't talk to anyone about some stuff. I'm not really close to that many people, so it's nice to have an outlet.

Which is a convoluted way of saying "thank you". :)

I just re-read this whole thing. Ugh, it sounds kinda negative. I'm sorry for that. The truth is that Bluebird makes me very happy. Probably happier than I've been in years. The concerns and worries that I have are mostly along the lines of "How can I keep this good thing safe?" By and large, things are going really great. Maybe I'm too vigilant, but I really want to be proactive, especially about controlling my own faults and flaws.

I have to be up and working in 5 hours. I guess I should wind this up.

Goodnight.
 
Last edited:
WarMan said:
I've been struggling with some feelings of jealousy lately. I want to talk about it, but at the same time I don't want to feel like a little bitch. Does that make sense to anyone? How do people talk about jealousy without feeling like they are jerkfaces for even having the feelings? Especially when they know that the people involved might read it? What I hate about this feeling, is I never know if it's justified (is there such a thing?) or whether it's all in my head.
Click to expand...

The thing that helped me to be able to talk about it more easily was to realize that I wanted my partner to be able to love me for EXACTLY WHO I AM, even if that person who I am is sometimes jealous. I didn't want to have to build walls to hide parts of myself to avoid my own or their discomfort. I wanted to put everything on the table and be loved for the flawed creature that I am.

The upside of that is that talking really does help everything. Usually confessing jealousy has resulted in my partner reassuring me and giving me extra cuddles and then I feel better. The downside is that having that conversation does make some of your time with them less fun, which can be stress-inducing in itself, but the work has ALWAYS been worth it, in my opinion.

I think there is a side to everyone that is...I hesitate to repeat your term "little bitch"...but prefer to think of it as kind of a less-evolved layer of myself. I think of mine as a tantruming inner child or a "lizard brain"—all emotion and instinct, no logic or higher reasoning powers. To combat jealousy, I have needed to find out what that child or that lizard needs in order to feel safer. Sometimes that need can be met by a partner, but often it is a need that I needed to learn to meet for myself.

Another thing that I have learned about feelings is that they don't have to be "justified." Feelings just ARE. You have to just accept that you have them and learn to not let them negatively affect your ACTIONS, but don't try to suppress them or shit can get really dark in there. It's important to let yourself feel them and then drag them out into the light to be examined, and THEN you can do the work of breaking down why they happen and how to maybe make it better next time. But you don't have to stand in judgment of your feelings and decide whether they are right or wrong and justified or unjustified.
 
My partners haven't had other partners (other than Boots, but I'm not really counting him as a partner at this point, and he doesn't talk to me much about his relationship with Glow in any case). But I know for a while after I started dating S2, Hubby was bothered by the fact that S2 enjoyed taking me places, while Hubby prefers not to leave the house if he can help it. Hubby knows I like getting out and seeing and doing things, and he had some jealousy around S2 doing that for/with me, even though Hubby wouldn't have done it anyway.

Jealousy happens, and I think it's normal to feel jealous or hurt if your partner enjoys an activity with another partner more than with you.

Because jealousy happens, I think it's important to acknowledge and discuss it. You won't sound like a whiny bitch if you say something like "I just want you let you know I'm struggling with some jealousy because of (whatever it is). I'm hoping you can reassure me that you and I are okay." Jealousy, in my opinion, is a mutant form of fear; if you're jealous about Bluebird having more fun gaming with PunkRock, for example, then to me, that means you're afraid Bluebird isn't having as much fun with you, and afraid of what that might mean for your relationship. When you have a negative emotion like that, it's okay to acknowledge that it exists, and to seek support from the other person involved as long as you aren't *blaming* them for how you feel.

Another thing I might suggest is that if you're feeling jealous about Bluebird enjoying an activity more with one of her husbands than with you, try finding an activity or two exclusive to you and her. Something she doesn't do with either of them, but enjoys doing.
 
I've had more than one bout with jealousy. I usually need to take a few hours to a day of pretty intense self-examination to figure out exactly what is triggering me before I feel comfortable taking it to. I also try to present an option that might assuage my jealousy but doesn't restrict my partner's activities.

For instance, if I was feeling jealous that Purr gets a bunch of fun date stuff and I only get boring home times, I might suggest that Guitarist and I have a fun date too. Not necessarily to the same event or place, but something that in my mind would be equally fun. That's when I'm 'jealous about feeling left out.' Other times I might get jealousy that stems from a fear of being replaced, and the only thing that will help me then is Guitarist telling me nice things about myself, or if I bring up some fond memories to him so that I can feel reconnected to the depth of our relationship and reassured that it's still good and I'm still special to him. Along those lines, I once simply asked Flame to tell me nice things about me. He's getting involved with a new girl and I was afraid of losing my best friend. I was reassured that I'm special to him, even if we aren't romantic partners. I felt really dorky, but it helped, and THEN I was able to tell him that I was a little worried and get my reassurances.

I also had a huge bout of jealousy when I thought that Marian was going on a date with someone else. I decided that the reason is that my time with Marian is very limited and I'm very insecure that she might replace me with someone new. This talk was much harder to have because the NRE is so strong with her and I didn't want to look whiny, pushy, or whatever... but in the end, talking about it was good. Instead of making me look whiny or pushy, Marian said that she appreciated my honesty. She was less good at reassurances, but at least I got it off my chest and it stopped consuming all my brain power.

When I need to talk to someone about jealousy, I keep reminding myself that we all feel those feelings. I can guarantee you Bluebird has felt those feelings (and not just because I've read her blog :rolleyes:). I don't think talking about jealousy is exhibiting weakness, it's saying that you need some help with a feeling we all have. I think it's a strength that you're asking for help instead of being weak or trying to be manipulative.

Some other things that help. I know some people might disagree and call it unhealthy territoriality, but it comforts me that there are certain activities that are just "me and Guitarist" activities. If he ever took Purr or another girlfriend on our special anniversary trip to our anniversary place, I would be very upset. Also, for him I made him a list of things that I love about him, so that if he's feeling insecure about a specific thing, he can look at the whole picture. And checking out the jealous chapter in More Than Two might also be helpful if you haven't already. I've read that when feeling jealous to reassure myself that it's just a feeling, one that doesn't make me a worse person than anyone else.

Hope that helps!
 
Hey WarMan, do you wish you had more platonic friends? I fear you are too dependent on Bluebird, and spend a lot of time ruminating about her (granted, you have NRE up the wazoo), and could use more input from irl friends besides us on the board here.

You might find a lot of support if you made some new poly friends. Would that interest you at all? You seem to spend a lot of time comparing yourself to her husbands, and wondering if you are too needy. You might come from a better place of strength if you had a couple new poly friends to have fun with and share stories and feelings and strategies for loving a poly person. You're not in an easy place. She is so committed to her husbands and I see how you feel you have a hard time fitting in.

You can google polyamory and the name of your local city(s) and see if there are any meetings around.
 
Reverie said:
Another thing that I have learned about feelings is that they don't have to be "justified." Feelings just ARE. .
Click to expand...

This is probably a good point. But I have an issue with that, that might be a little different. See, because of my bi-polar, I know for a fact that some of my perspectives are warped, and unreal. In the past, I've dealt with some paranoia related to my illness. Because of that, I try to carefully assess my feelings, because many of them are unreal, incorrect, and should be justified. Not sure if that makes sense to anyone who hasn't been shown that their mind is literally unreliable, but it makes me feel like I need to be careful what I allow myself to feel.
 
Magdlyn said:
Hey WarMan, do you wish you had more platonic friends? I fear you are too dependent on Bluebird, and spend a lot of time ruminating about her (granted, you have NRE up the wazoo), and could use more input from irl friends besides us on the board here.
Click to expand...

Bah, there it is again, NRE. I know it's a thing, but I feel like everyone uses it to explain away all behaviors that happen in the first 6 months sometimes. Am I too dependent on her? I don't know. I guess you'd have to ask her. I do spend a lot of time Ruminating about her and my relationship with her. Bluebird is the best, most happy thing to happen to me in quite a long time. Which isn't to say that nothing good has happened to me, or that I've never been happy before her, just that I'm happier with her in my life than I have been before. That being the case, I do spend a lot of time hoping that I'm getting this right. I want very badly to get it right this time.

Do I wish I had more platonic friends? Not really. I have friends. I have more friends than I have time for frankly. I have close friends that I haven't been able to see in a couple of months. That's enough for someone who is basically an introvert like yours truly. The problem is that several of them are in the middle of serious life problems. Lost jobs, sick parents, losing their home, etc. I just don't feel like I can bother them with my silly problems, Also, most of my friends, are also friends of my other friends, and too many of them know the situation with Monkey etc. Those who don't fall into those categories either don't know I'm involved with a poly girl, or might not be uncomfortable with it. My family members are all out also. So, that doesn't leave a lot of options. Besides, I wouldn't discuss things like this with many people who knew me in Real life. The Internet adds a layer of emotional distance that makes it easier to talk sometimes.

Magdlyn said:
You might find a lot of support if you made some new poly friends. Would that interest you at all? ...You can google polyamory and the name of your local city(s) and see if there are any meetings around.
Click to expand...

It would interest me, but sadly, the nearest city I can find with any poly groups are more than an hour and a half distant. A little more than I'm willing to travel for "maybe make friends". It would be nice to know some other people personally who are dealing with similar issues.

Thanks for taking the time to respond. :)
 
Last edited:
KC43 said:
Because jealousy happens, I think it's important to acknowledge and discuss it. You won't sound like a whiny bitch if you say something like "I just want you let you know I'm struggling with some jealousy because of (whatever it is). I'm hoping you can reassure me that you and I are okay." Jealousy, in my opinion, is a mutant form of fear; if you're jealous about Bluebird having more fun gaming with PunkRock, for example, then to me, that means you're afraid Bluebird isn't having as much fun with you, and afraid of what that might mean for your relationship. When you have a negative emotion like that, it's okay to acknowledge that it exists, and to seek support from the other person involved as long as you aren't *blaming* them for how you feel.
Click to expand...

I have spoken to Bluebird about it once or twice. I guess my fear is that I might be perceived as not making enough progress? If I bring it up too often, or feel that way too much...It's human nature to get annoyed at people who don't get better. Ask your friendly neighborhood depressive.

I like your point about making sure that you aren't blaming them. I try hard to start every conversation by saying "This is probably MY issue", and it's not just something I say. Bluebird is awesome at this. When we have issues, it IS generally my personal problem. Like I said in a prior post, everyone should be so lucky as to date someone like Bluebird.

KC43 said:
Another thing I might suggest is that if you're feeling jealous about Bluebird enjoying an activity more with one of her husbands than with you, try finding an activity or two exclusive to you and her. Something she doesn't do with either of them, but enjoys doing.
Click to expand...

The problem I think is that I'm very similar to both of her boys. There is very little that she doesn't do with either of them, or hasn't done, that I would enjoy and they not. LOL poor Bluebird has had to see some movies 3 times, because all of us want to go. I think the real problem anyway, is that in all of my previous relationships I'm used to being different from "the other guys" that most ladies have dated. This time, not only am I not different (in many ways at least) but those aren't even "ex" guys.

That being said, Bluebird says that we are all very different, and I believe her. It's just a matter of convincing the parts of me that aren't my brain, that it's so.
 
WarMan said:
Can I ask you a question? Do(or have) any of you suspect(ed) or know(n) that your partner enjoys(ed) an activity with one of their partners more than you? Or that they are more interested, or more "into" it? How do(did) you deal with it? I know some people are just not bothered by that idea at all, maybe those folks could help, but I'd really like to hear from people who were bothered by it and got over it, and how you did it. Maybe it was all in your head, if so, how did you come to that realization and how did you banish it?
Click to expand...

Keep reminding yourself that it isn't a competition. She's with you because she wants to be with you, not because of some kind of Reality TV competition. Do the things she loves you for, not the ones you think she wants.
 
So, as I left Bluebird's house tonight she fixed me with a look and said "Don't you go getting all angsty in your journal tonight!" So, with that grim warning in mind, prepare for an entry, completely devoid of all angst!

So, this whole week I've been on call. That means up at 5 AM each day, and working until past 8 most nights so far. So by the time I picked up Bluebird from her trivia night at 10:30 I was tired. By the time we got home it was past 11, the bed was unmade, and I had to be up at 5 again. Despite being tired we laid in bed and talked for a while.

I was up again at 5 today for work, but after Bluebird woke up we had an extremely pleasant day in each other's company.

After work, we went to Bluebird's house, we went to her place and all 3 of us boys played Zombiecide with her. It was a good time.

I feel very lucky to have Bluebird in my life. Sometimes I will try to get her to say that I'm her boyfriend, just because I love to hear the words come out of her mouth. Even the problems we have, and the arguments (mild) are kinda neat, because we actually talk about them.

Goodnight readers. Tomorrow we resume our regular angst filled programming ;)
 
So, I always assume that everyone who reads this is also reading Bluebird's journal. *I read some of the responses there to her last update.

*

Of course, my perspective on what happened is different from hers. I'm trying to think of how i can susinctly state what happened. Basically, i was trying to express that i felt hampered by the structure and amount of time we have together, and was lamenting that i didn't have the opportunity to meet her like her other boys did. I know that Bluebird is giving me all that she can give, so i wasn't looking to have her give me more. I guess i was just looking for comfort and reassurance that despite the situation, we were and would be OK. I think Bluebird read this as "I'm not satisfied and i want what your other boys had.", which was not my intention.

*

The long and short of it was that i expressed myself poorly, and continued to do so. When it suddenly occurred to me that she was feeling frustrated and angry i was shocked, then hurt. I went to her for comfort about something that was scary and upsetting, and had my fears increased instead. I felt like instead of hearing "I'm sorry you're having a hard time, we're OK, what can i do to help" I was instead getting "I've given all i can, if you can't deal with it, there is the door". We talked about it, and she says that she was saying the former, but i wasn't hearing her. She felt like i was deliberately starting a fight. I ended feeling despair, having gone looking for comfort and found confirmation of my fears instead.

*

We talked this morning and worked it out and at least parted on good, loving terms. My major take away was that i need to find some other way to express fears and concerns. Bluebird and monkey have said some of the exact same words to me re: my method of arguing. *This leads me to think that this is my problem to fix. I will think about it.

*

A word to those who think i am too needy. I hope that everyone understands that we all need/crave different levels of contact. Both of Bluebirds boys almost immediately craved more time with her. It's just something special about her. *It just happens that they could get it, so it wasn't a problem for them. *That's not an option for me. That aside, As i told Bluebird today, we would NEVER work as a mono couple! I need her to be poly, because i spend a lot of time with monkey, and i like it that way. In my last couple mono relationships that was a major issue. Also, i don't want to take her away from her boys more than i do. Darkknight is mono, punkrock is mono. Punkrock and i have both said that we might date other people someday. *poly is not my problem. I'm the kind of person who needs time alone with my partner. I am also a morose and gloomy kind of person. I love people like Bluebird because she's not like me in that regard. I love how she lifts me up, but sometimes it takes a while for me to overcome those darker feelings. When i only get to see her a few hours at a time, it can take me longer than i have to shake all my other problems and i start to feel frustrated at that, which makes it worse. Knowing that I'm upsetting Bluebird and letting her down makes it even worse again,

*

Bluebird was unhappy because i said i feel disconnected sometimes, but i don't think i expressed that i feel that way with everyone. Sometimes i go over to monkey's house and it takes me a couple of hours to let go of everything else and enjoy my time with her. But with monkey there is always plenty of time and nobody waiting in the wings to take my place.

*

I think that later in our relationship, this amount of time will be fine, most of the time. I just think that right now, for me personally, starting a relationship is hard on this much time. I could have a relationship with Bluebird on a much shallower level than what we both want, and this would be too much time for that. *But for that kind of thing we've discussed, it feels a little spare. Before everyone can say "maybe this just isn't for you", i get it. But i think any relationship will require adjustment and compromise. Why not with someone amazing with Bluebird?

*

That being said, it is what it is. I AM number 3, and whether it's ideal or not, if i want to be with Bluebird, i have to deal with *the time constraints, And i DO want to be with her! Very much, so i need to find a way to make it work. I really do believe that Bluebird is my best chance for a happy long life

*

I'm going to take a deep breath, try to figure out how to express myself in better ways, and try to help Bluebird realize I'm not looking for a way out. I'm going to try harder to accept the limitations we have and spend my energy on making it work, rather than lament what it's not

*

I'm old enough to know that things don't always work, even when people love each other, but i believe with all my heart that Bluebird and i CAN work, and i really want it to. *I told Bluebird today that dating me was like playing your favorite video game on 'hard' mode. I hope it's rewarding, but it isn't easy. That's not me excusing myself, it's just acknowledgement that I'm hard. I wish with all my heart that i was easier to be with. I always have

*

All in all, it was a rough night, made doubly hard by my leaving immediately after. I'm going to miss her intensely while I'm gone, but I'm really glad I'll see her again when i return.

*

Here's to better times ahead
 
I believe you actually said dating you was a game on "nightmare" mode. You greatly underestimate my mad gamer skillz though.

I am already missing you lots. ❤️
 
Since you both read these forums i'll repost this here so you both read it. Given that this isn't the first or even second time that you've each recounted a heated arument/discussion on here with 2 very different view points and interpretations, I agree that you both need to find a way to communicate your concerns and upsets in a way that your actual meaning is being conveyed clearly. Right now cross communication is just hurting, not helping. If you're open to suggestionsp, I recommend that when one of you (person A) wants to share some thought/opinion/concern that is liable to be upsetting to person B, or hell, if you share something you think is completely casual and benign but person B is upset by.... Then person B before reacting or responding should first reply by restating the thought/concern in their own words as they are "hearing" it. If both people's interpretations match, then person B can respond. If not, person A has the ability to clarify and repeat the process. It might keep some arguments from even happening, or keep you from walking away from a conversation with 2 completely different takes on what just happened.

Glad you guys were able to talk through stuff and you could leave on a better note!!
 
I just want to reassure you that your feelings are completely valid. I've read both blogs and there are some things that stood out to me as being problematic, I mean if I were you. For example, the thing with keeping things special for certain partners is something that one is generally told to view as a red flag if you are seeking what is known as an egalitarian polyamorous relationship. Now, there are nicknames I only use with certain people because they are about a unique experience or maybe just an abbreviation of their name. So I'd bear that in mind, but still, I'd feel concerned if my partner had said what your partner said to you.

The other thing is about saturation. Personally, from reading these blogs, your partner does saturated, to me anyway. I am very surprised that you see each other as much as you do, how the hell does she fit it all in?! However, I can imagine that her being that busy does create a certain amount of distance. Going from one place to the other, the schedule, it must be stressful and I can't see how anyone would be fully connected all the time. Somewhere, one relationship will have to pay the price. And that's fine if that relationship is a casual FWB type, but that's not what you and your partner have built up. I'm not saying that she doesn't seem as if she does really, really well to minimize this impact, but it is an inevitable outcome when you have as much as on as she does. If I were her, I would have ensured I didn't develop a relationship with this level of expectation because it would be impossible for me to fulfill it. It wouldn't be fair on No. 3 who would naturally begin to crave the spouse-like relationship that I have with my other partners. Relationships they get to see and directly compare to what they have with me and what they may not be able to ever have with me. Sometimes, despite our partner not feeling saturated, they can be too saturated for us to have the type of relationship we need from them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top