Unwavering feelings

[MintyGum]

Hi, I'm new to this board. I've been reading around for a while now trying to get a feel on others' thoughts about their polygamous relationships (the good, the bad, the struggling). And I've decided I don't want the stress, pressure, and trouble involved in trying to make a relationship like this work.

Common similarities between myself and previous posters that I would struggle with:

• Petty jealousy directed towards the third. Whether it be from her physical appearance, personality, occupation, and/or simply the time she would be taking him away from me.
• Giving them "alone time." I believe in a growing relationship, and that involves personal time. But on the other hand, I think that it should be all or none, to make it fair to myself and the extra. Otherwise, it feels like cheating, whether I'm in the room or downstairs sitting on the couch listening.
• Worrying that this new relationship would cause him to waver, especially since it would be an easily-kept secret within himself, because I'm away at work all day.
• Getting her pregnant. Everybody has different modes of contraception and how they take care of that routine. Some are stricter/smarter about it than others. I know I've faltered in the past (without the end result, of course) and it scares me to imagine that scenario.
• The basic feeling of it being morally wrong for our specific relationship (just residual feelings from growing up in a monogamous world; no judgment on others).

I've told him all of these things, on more than one occasion, and yet he still claims that this is something he's wanted to "try" for a long time and feels empty without it. He's being patient, and waiting for me to develop accepting feelings toward it on my own time, but at the same time it feels like he's rushing me.

We've tried implementing a third into our relationship before by going as far as having another girl sleep over. Disaster. And he's giving me new literature on the subject when he finds it, to let me know that it's accepted in circles around the country.

I don't even know what I'm doing anymore. I'm waiting for him to "grow out of it." Does that even happen? Is this a phase that men can grow out of?

-Sad & Disillusioned

 

[redpepper]

Getting her pregnant. Everybody has different modes of contraception and how they take care of that routine, some stricter/smarter about it than others. I know I've faltered in the past (without the end result, of course) and it scares me to imagine that scenario.

How about disease? That is just as big, no? I would hope he is using a condom for intercourse, and protection when he goes down on her.

I'm waiting for him to "grow out of it." Does that even happen? Is this a phase that men can grow out of?

Sorry, it doesn't seem likely that he will grow out of it. I haven't heard of that, unless he is looking for just sex, or is looking to be able to cheat with your knowledge. It isn't evident from your post what his thoughts are.

Taking a girl home for the night is not generally what people consider polyamory. It seems more like threesome sex, or swinging, or having an open relationship. But then again, people claim love in one night of fucking, so I dunno... Some others claim that is just the hormones that occur due to sex. It's all your choice what you want to call it.

I'm glad to hear you are reading and imagining. Keep at it. He is going at your pace, it sounds like, and you are moving forward. It takes time and patience on both sides, and a whole lot of communication.

 

[LovingRadiance]

I don't even know what I'm doing anymore. I'm waiting for him to "grow out of it." Does that even happen? Is this a phase that men can grow out of?

No, people don't "grow out" of themselves, if you are talking about who they are. However, there's no way for any of us to know for sure that he is naturally a polyamorous person, and isn't just "wanting to screw around." It's impossible, because A) we don't know him, and B) that's so internal, anyway.

On the other hand, you are each individuals who have to choose your own path. If this is that important to him and it's that much of a "no" for you, then it may mean you need to go your separate ways. Only you can figure that out for yourselves.

I can tell you, for me, if my husband is waiting for me to "grow out of " this, he's going to die before that happens. I've been poly since I was a little girl. Even as young as 1st grade, I always had two boys I was interested in. Then, complicated that by the fact that I'm bisexual... nightmare trainwreck, if he thinks I'm going to suddenly become someone else.

Does that make sense at all? I feel for you. Take some time to really consider what it is you want for your life, and then work towards that goal, understanding that you can't make anyone else do anything, including him. So, your goals have to be centered upon letting other people do and be whatever it is that they are.

 

[MintyGum]

Sorry if my post seemed a little rushed or I left out too much information. He's naturally a poly-person, yet has never experienced it. We've been discussing this for months, and I'm trying to come to terms with it. It's just obviously a little hard to comprehend. I understand now that he'll never grow out of it.

Regarding sex and pregnancy, of course diseases are a primary concern of mine, more so than pregnancy, because it will be challenging to find a third that is a good match for us on the first try. There will be more than one woman in our lives. I don't want our relationship to be messed up because we rushed ahead and somebody got sick when it could have been prevented.

He is definitely not looking for sex-only or threesomes. He wants a genuine poly relationship, with equal love and care shared among us all. My problem with that is that I was raised believing that I will find "the one" and that I will have children and a life and grow old with this person. It's complicated to believe in this traditional ideal when a non-traditional variable is thrust into the equation. I find myself thinking, What's the point of wanting children or long-term goals with this one man anymore, if he isn't satisfied with only me?

Then there is the third woman to console. It's not fair to her if we have the option to drop her like a hat when we decide we don't want her anymore. It doesn't work that way; she's a person too, with feelings and emotions. She will see us having children and making milestones, like she's sitting on the bleachers watching our game of life with no connection to it. That kills me! I don't see anything fair with the role of secondaries in regards to the roles of primaries in this type of relationship.

Also, I'll never be able to introduce her to my family, friends, peers, coworkers, etc., as who she really is. I can't help feeling like it will be like a horrible dirty secret.

 

[IndieSolo]

Hi there, Minty. I found your last post quite thought-provoking. I'm not going to try and convince you one way or another, but just thought I'd post some of the questions and responses you brought up in my mind. Maybe these will help in some way when next you discuss it with your husband.

I find myself thinking, What's the point of wanting children or long-term goals with this one man anymore, if he isn't satisfied with only me?

Just because one person in a couple can find satisfaction with someone else, does not mean that the partner he is coupled with does not also satisfy him. We all have varying needs. Having certain needs fulfilled by one person does not necessarily equate with the other person not being enough, or not being just as satisfying, but that they are satisfying in a different way.

Then there is the third woman to console. It's not fair to her if we have the option to drop her like a hat when we decide we don't want her anymore. It doesn't work that way; she's a person too, with feelings and emotions.

Egad, no one deserves to be rejected because of a couple's whims. I wouldn't even enter into the possibility of inviting someone into your relationship if you think there will be a chance you wouldn't "want her anymore," like a used-up toy. If you do become involved with a third, they should be accorded the same respect you have for one another, or any other close friend. Why would the fact that your husband (or both of you?) being sexual with an additional person could possibly make such dehumanizing treatment of someone even an option to consider? You say on one hand that your husband wants "a genuine poly-relationship with equal love and care shared among us all," so discarding her shouldn't even be something that enters the equation, in my opinion, if what he wants is the goal.

She will see us having children and making milestones, like she's sitting on the bleachers watching our game of life with no connection to it. That kills me! I don't see anything fair with the role of secondaries in regards to the roles of primaries in this type of relationship.

Why do you think your husband's secondary, if she goes along with that kind of hierarchical labeling, wouldn't have other lovers to satisfy her other needs, as well? You seem to think in terms of only a woman who lives with you two as a third, but there are all kinds of possibilities and configurations. And would you only consider someone to be a third who would not also perhaps want children of her own? Would it be strictly forbidden for your husband to father children with someone else, if it was a love relationship and they both wanted it? Can you put such a rule on another woman's womb? And what if he wants to be with someone who already has kids? You don't know who it would be, so would you consider that kind of scenario? If you did engage in a poly tangle, why would you think her life outside of what she has with you two would be empty and devoid of satisfaction from anything else? Wouldn't you want to be involved with someone who is stable, happy, and NOT co-dependent or focused solely on your relationship(s) as the be-all end-all?

Also, I'll never be able to introduce her to my family, friends, peers, coworkers, etc., as who she really is. I can't help feeling like it will be like a horrible dirty secret.

Lots of people have threads here dealing with that topic. It's not impossible.

 

[MintyGum]

Egad, no one deserves to be rejected because of a couple's whims...

We're just really new to this (if I can decide to do this). I don't want to create a relationship with someone and then dump them because of personal problems. Being dumped hurts and I don't want that to happen, but life is unpredictable. I may dump them both if things turn horribly sour.

Why do you think your husband's secondary, if she goes along with that kind of hierarchical labeling, wouldn't have other lovers to satisfy her other needs as well? You seem to think in terms of only a woman who lives with you two as a third, but there are all kinds of possibilities and configurations. If you did engage in a poly tangle, why would you think her life outside of what she has with you two would be empty and devoid of satisfaction from anything else? Wouldn't you want to be involved with someone who is stable, happy, and NOT co-dependent or focused solely on your relationship as the be-all end-all?

I haven't thought that far ahead yet. If that were the case, I wouldn't want a third who is a third to other relationship(s). I'm definitely not comfortable with a lover who has many other lovers. Too much sexual education has told me that sleeping with her means sleeping with everyone she's slept with recently. That widens the pool of potential sexual health issues. I'm more open to a polygamous relationship with someone who has a boyfriend/husband/family of her own, who is stable in life and love before entering our relationship and us theirs.

And would you only consider someone to be a third who would not also perhaps want children of her own? Would it be strictly forbidden for your husband to father children with someone else, if it was a love relationship and they both wanted it? Can you put such a rule on another woman's womb? And what if he wants to be with someone who already has kids? You don't know who it would be, so would you consider that kind of scenario?

It is strictly forbidden for my husband to father another woman's children. If he loves me, he will respect that decision. This is one of my more unwavering decisions, and no one can convince me otherwise. I've had this discussion with him regarding poly-tangles, pregnancy and child-support, emotionally and financially. My psyche just can't handle that sort of scenario/burden. I would be destroyed if his first child was with another lover, and not the love of his life (me).

All of these responses help, no matter how critical. I have NOBODY to discuss this with who has had experience. I appreciate any and every bit of information I can grab a hold of while reading this board.

 

[IndieSolo]

. . . I wouldn't want a third who is a third to other relationship(s). I'm definitely not comfortable with a lover who has many other lovers.

I doubt very much you two would easily find a "third" who is also the third for another couple, but you might find someone who has their own primary or husband.

 

[LovingRadiance]

Might I suggest you read some of the personal blogs?

I have a boyfriend, who I would not consider "secondary" to my husband. We all live together. All three families know all of us and are well aware of the situation. Of the four children, the first is mine from a previous relationship. The second is my husband's from a previous marriage. The third is my husband's and mine. The fourth is biologically my boyfriend's and my child. But all four are being raised (fully aware of their biology) as my husband's and my children.

There are so so so many ways to make things work out. The key is in allowing love to grow as it will.

Also, maybe read some books?
Polyamory in the 21st Century just came out. I found it a very great book.
I'm just reading Divine Sex: Liberating Sex From Religious Tradition. It's about what the Bible actually says about sex; what is and isn't a "sin." Very interesting and educational.
There are lots more books and articles linked on my blog (link in my signature).

You're very "young" in this exploration. It's perfectly reasonable to have fears and concerns. The best method of dealing with fear and concern is to face it through research and education.

 

[SirLurksAlot]

Thought I'd jump in here and ask a question.

In regards to:

Why do you think your husband's secondary, if she goes along with that kind of hierarchical labeling, wouldn't have other lovers to satisfy her other needs as well? You seem to think in terms of only a woman who lives with you two as a third, but there are all kinds of possibilities and configurations. ... If you did engage in a poly tangle, why would you think her life outside of what she has with you two would be empty and devoid of satisfaction from anything else? Wouldn't you want to be involved with someone who is stable, happy, and not co-dependent or focused solely on your relationship as the be-all end-all?

I'm curious how this would work. I have very little experience in the lifestyle, like the OP, but I was of the opinion that a closed relationship would be more appealing then an open relationship. The latter would be far to much like a swinging lifestyle, at least on the third's side. I myself am paranoid about STDs and such ilk, not to mention the confusion that could arise if another one of her partners were to get her pregnant, etc.

Wouldn't it be far better and appealing to more people to have a triad, and only a triad? I don't believe the type of person we're after would be looking for a couple and additional relationships on the side. I also don't see how a woman already in a serious relationship could be interested in another couple, without the husband/boyfriend wishing to join in, as well.

As I said, I'm new to the lifestyle, and as such haven't had the chance to go to any clubs, meetings, groups, or other organizations and figure out what people are aiming for. But I was of the opinion that more people were still interested in fidelity than in an open-style relationship.

I have also heard that fours are not a strong style of relationship. Inevitably the second pair will split off. Is that true? It seems like an ideal fix to the situation would be to have a MFMF group, but according to what I've found via the interwebs, it's not as strong.

I would love some comments on this. I realize it's a bit confusing and mixed, as I'm a terrible typist, and have incredibly mixed thoughts in my head, but I hope it's mostly understandable.

 

[LovingRadiance]

Actually, there are as many personalities and preferences as there are people. I personally prefer to limit myself to just my two. My boyfriend GG is mono, so obviously he prefers to limit himself to one (me). My husband Maca has another lady friend, and she has several lovers of her own.

It seems to me that if you're talking about a situation where everyone is poly, but more than one of them are heterosexual, a foursome would be better than a triad.

Also, I've seen many situations arise on here where people flat did not want to have a poly-fi (closed) dynamic. They wanted to retain the fluidity of being free to take on a new lover at will.

Ironically, the fear of STDs being totally legitimate, I've encountered much more risk (due to people not even wanting to discuss, much less consider using precautions) in the "mono" world than I have in the poly world.

There is always the possibility that a couple could take on a lover who was also the lover to a second couple. So picture couple + lover + couple, where neither couple is involved with the other, but the lover in the middle is involved with each on a part-time basis.

There are lots of options. The only limit is your imagination.

 

[IndieSolo]

The more I read here, and the more I meet poly people at poly gatherings, the more I have learned that there are all kinds of configurations possible. There can be more than three people in a poly network, and it can be closed. Safer sex is always an issue. But my point is that there are lots of different options. It all depends on the people involved.

The OP was afraid that a "third" would be watching on the sidelines as someone who can't fully participate in the main relationship. Sure, that happens, but I was just trying to say that you could (and might prefer to) get involved with someone who is more independent and has another person or other people in her life, where she wouldn't be that focused on the OP's husband and wanting a larger commitment.

If they found someone like that, that person's primary wouldn't necessarily want to be involved with any OSO she has. That's not a given. That is not to say that the OP and her husband would look for a swinger, or something open, but there are any number of potential relationship dynamics.

I got the sense that the OP's husband wants a V. I'm not sure they want a triad.

 

[SirLurksAlot]

Ahh, sorry, my fault. I was projecting my own search into this too much. Rereading the OP's post, it does seem she's a heterosexual woman. Funnily enough, this goes right back to the point of the huge amount of variety that you can get in these relationships.

From that, to keep on the thread of the topic, and to further my own understanding, what is the glue that would keep a V together, if you were to treat it in my view and promote fidelity (poly-fi: thank you for the new term) rather than an open relationship? Is this possible? Are most/all closed triads bi, or can they be Vs?

A triad is appealing to me, in that each person is getting the maximum number of "benefits" from the other two, thus leaving less room for discord or complaints. It also allows for the option that if one worked or such, the other two would be just as comfortable. For my situation, I have a sharply different schedule then my wife. The idea of a triad works perfectly, so that while I'm gone, the two can be comfortable, happy and safe, and while either of them are gone, us two remaining can be comfortable, happy and safe.

Granted, a V could have the same benefits, provided friendship were an adequate substitute for intimacy in the relationship. Essentially they both have the same application in MY personal lifestyle. I would just be happier with the triad, for whatever reason.

Taking the focus off of the OP's husband seems like a good idea. As they're new to this, it would be a nice way to work into something real, allowing them to become comfortable, establish boundaries and what's good/bad. If the third doesn't work out, they would have the knowledge and comfort base to find something more personal and dedicated if it was wanted.

When I read the couple-third-couple I must admit I thought of the BDSM scene. It does seem like a possibility, though, not for me. I enjoy the intimacy and closeness of a relationship too much. It seems that if someone had another couple or partner, then it would detract from that special... little... thing. I don't even know what to call it, but it's certainly there.

 

[redpepper]

@SirLurksAlot, I am surprised by your name, as it seems to me that your lurking has not brought up some language for you to use, let alone the understanding that poly is not all triads in a poly-fi situation. Sure, a unicorn in a triad with a couple is the usual sought-after poly dream for a new couple coming from a monogamous mindset into poly, but it is by far the usual end result. The end result is quite often a tribe or constellation of people all networking and loving together.

Safer sex is crucial, as is the honesty that comes with it.

I suggest you do some searching around here. Do a tag search for "triad," "vee," "unicorn." Start your own thread if you have questions or a story to tell. There is much to find of interest on here.

@MintyGum, I also suggest reading some blogs... like mine, for instance. I have a husband, a live-in boyfriend, a girlfriend, and another boyfriend. There are plenty of other threads that will give you a ton of info on how people describe their poly and how their lives have morphed and changed over time

The idea is to let it all go and see where life takes you. Some ideas at first are good, some boundaries are good too, but fluidity is very important, as is an open mind. If you expect safety, and trust that people in your tribe will be true to what they say, then I believe you will create that. If you find that a person isn't being upfront, then either they need to change, or they have to be let go.

Getting a name for yourself as being dishonest in Polyland means people just won't want to date you, or that you will have to move on entirely from the community you're in. I doubt anyone that is close in a poly community, or hopes to be, would be willing to lie about the safety of their sex life. Of course, I am speaking from a small city with a small poly community. I don't know about elsewhere.

As for possible partners for your man, I agree with NYCindie, why not a married woman, a woman with kids already, or a woman that is uninterested in children, has a life of her own and possible other partners? This is the usual, anyway, and a good thing too. You can live the married dream, and he can have a woman that has her dream also. Makes sense to me.

 

[SirLurksAlot]

I apologize for the misleading name. I am, in fact, fairly new to the forum. The name was meant in the connotation that I don't often post or chat. I tend to lurk more then anything, mumbling my own comments under my breath.

I had done quite a bit of research awhile ago, at least a year or more. Be this new terminology or online lingo. I'll have to study up on it so I can actually be a competent participant in the discussion.

I apologize, as well, for hijacking the thread; not my intention.

 

[IndieSolo]

To Sir and the OP, here's a good place to start:

Glossary and Definitions

 

[redpepper]

To Sir and the OP, here's a good place to start:

Glossary and Definitions

excellent idea

 

[BlackUnicorn]

Granted, a V could have the same benefits, provided friendship were an adequate substitute for intimacy in the relationship. Essentially, they both have the same application in my personal lifestyle. I would just be happier with a triad, for whatever reason.

Real friendship the way I do it can be a lot more satisfying than a sexual relationship. Sometimes, when love is perfect, there is no tension, not enough for great sex anyway. Read more under 'lesbian bed-death.'

When I read the couple-third-couple, I must admit I thought of a BDSM scene.

I'm not in the scene, but beginning vanilla couples looking for a unicorn abound in poly circles. It's not that hard to get into an hourglass formation quite accidentally, because the couples-looking/unicorns ratio is so skewed.

 

[LovingRadiance]

From that, to keep on the thread of the topic and to further my own understanding, what is the glue that would keep a V together?

Our poly family is a .... weird.

We're a closed quad in terms of "family." That means, that there are four of us who live here as the adults of the family (although our oldest child IS an adult now and does remain living here). We are the "parents," so to speak, of the family.

However, in terms of sex, we're a V. I am sexually involved with my husband and my boyfriend. My sister is not sexually involved with any of us. Both men are STRAIGHT.

In our V, we are mostly closed poly-fi, with the option for Maca to find another woman who could at some point be added. So he dates at times, but in terms of sex, there hasn't been another since last August. She remains a FWB in terms of the endearment, lovey dovey, friendship, kissing, hugging. But they haven't been sexually involved since August.

What "keeps it together" is that we're a family. We have kids we're raising, a home to keep up, an affection and friendship between all of us. We're a team.

 

[SourGirl]

I don't even know what I'm doing anymore. I'm waiting for him to "grow out of it." Does that even happen? Is this a phase that men can grow out of?

Yes, people can happily be monogamous after poly encounters. It is not always a case of "Once you go poly, you can never go back."
You can in essence be "bi" ... monogamous or poly.

Much like anything with poly and open relationships, there are various ways of feeling about it. Some people see it as a choice, others see it as a identity, and so on.

My husband and I, while in good relationships outside of ourselves currently, could be happily monogamous, as well. We don`t "need" polyamory. In fact, we only identify as in a open relationship, but for argument's sake, we`ll call it polyamory here. It is not a machine that guides us.

When you ask specifically about him growing out of it-- you can`t wish that on someone. People generally know if they feel they can't live without it, or if they feel they can take it or leave it.