Vanilla wife struggling

[Marvelgirl]

I'm not sure what to write and never thought I'd end up in this situation. I've been married and poly for 17 years. We have a good relationship, except for sex over the past couple of years. And I'm trying to be ok with that but I'm not doing so well.

It started when my husband developed an interest in BDSM. I'm not into it. I tried for him. It just made me feel like shit. I had an abusive childhood. Trying ends up with me feeling awful and locking myself in a closet to cry as soon as I'm alone. I'm not willing to try anymore. It destroys me. I grew up in a really abusive home and it's all too real to me. It's not fun.

That being said I've encouraged my husband to explore that side of him. I don't see anything wrong with BDSM. I've always thought that as long as everyone is a consenting adult people should do what they like. I don't judge.

But now he doesn't want sex with me. I thought it was because he was getting older and asked him to see a doctor years ago. He says ok but never does it. He doesn't have an issue having sex with his girlfriends. He can't even maintain an erection while I give him oral sex at this point.

I feel like garbage. I've pulled away from him and his BDSM friends. I've heard so many insults from them. And they don't know they're insulting me, it's not like they're trying to be cruel. They're nice enough people for the most part. But they all have stories about some guy they dated with some bitch vanilla wife who wouldn't even try and they're so glad he finally left her.

I'm the bitch vanilla wife I guess. I feel like a joke. I've been googling for weeks and all I get is stuff like "How not to be vanilla" or how vanilla people are repressed and boring or people who are so glad they finally dumped some horrible vanilla person.

I'm getting really bitter about it and I don't want to be that person. It really bothers me that a group who doesn't want to be shamed for what they like sexually has no problem shaming the hell out of me. Like because I don't like having my ass covered in bruises or being bitten I don't deserve love or affection. I don't think they're wrong for what they like so why am I wrong?

I'm ranting so I'm just going to stop. I don't know what I want here. I just know that I feel lower than dogshit and I don't know what to do about it. I don't feel like I have anyone I can talk to about it because all I get is well what did you expect with your lifestyle?

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry you struggle.

But now he doesn't want sex with me. I thought it was because he was getting older and asked him to see a doctor years ago. He says ok but never does it. He doesn't have an issue having sex with his girlfriends. He can't even maintain an erection while I give him oral sex at this point.

I'm not sure what to tell you if your spouse is not willing to seek healthcare or talk about why he makes agreements that he won't follow through on.

Does he need moral support? Help making the appointment? Someone to go with him?

I think that's the crux of the problem. I know there's other stuff... but I think that's the main part: What's going on with married sex life here?

Age can affect things. Over here it is me -- perimenopause is giving me hormone roller coaster wacko. It def affects my libido and my desire for sex. It's like my brain wants sex with spouse, but my body isn't always cooperative and it frustrates me. Hormone therapy helps, and it's slowly getting better. We talked and decided to view it like pregnancy was. When I was pregnant, we had to adapt and change our lovemaking style for a while to accommodate that... so here is this other time of life and we have to adapt and change our lovemaking style to accommodate that.

If he's going through andropause he could get checked out.

If he's simply lost interest and you guys are no longer sexually compatible -- it is what it is. You guys have to talk about that and decide it that's a marriage deal breaker or what.

But I get that getting to place of actually having that conversation can be a challenge. How can forum people help you?

I hope you feel at least a bit better for sharing your story.

Hang in there.

hugs,
Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Greetings Marvelgirl,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

FWIW, I am a vanilla person, and I see nothing wrong with it. Being/trying BDSM should be completely voluntary, not something you are pushed or pressured into. If you don't want to do it, you shouldn't have to. Your husband's BDSM friends are out of line when they characterize vanilla-ness as being unhealthy/wrong. Nobody should have to try BDSM ... nobody.

IMO, your husband is also out of line to not be seeing a doctor when he said he would. I would bring that up specifically stating that he's not keeping his word. Another thing to try might be going to see a sex therapist, him alone or perhaps both of you. Later on, if everything has been tried, maybe you could transition to a sexless marriage (if there's other reasons to stay married besides sex), and do you have other poly partners who could meet your sexual needs? If not, maybe start looking.

In summary, I don't think you've done anything wrong, what's going on here is not your fault. I hope Polyamory.com can help you find your way through this.

Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter"

Notes:

There's a *lot* of good info in Golden Nuggets. Have a look!

Please read through the guidelines if you haven't already.

Note: You needn't read every reply to your posts, especially if someone posts in a disagreeable way. Given the size and scope of the site it's hard not to run into the occasional disagreeable person. Please contact the mods if you do (or if you see any spam), and you can block the person if you want.

If you have any questions about the board itself, please private-message a mod and they'll do their best to help.

Welcome aboard!

 

[Marvelgirl]

Thank you both for your responses. It helps a little to get it out somewhere I won't be instantly judged as bad.

I told him I was starting to take herbs to decrease my libido to help the issue and he didn't like that. I don't know what else to do. It hurts but I'm willing to stay in a sexless marriage. Now he's making an appointment with his doctor and looking for a counselor.

And somehow I'm more hurt by that which isn't logical but it's what's happening. That all the talking and the occasional crying wasn't enough. But this is. He doesn't want me but it's not ok for me to take steps to try to not want him so I can cope with that.

I have a boyfriend and he's been a huge help. I don't know what I'd do without him right now. My self esteem is completely in the garbage.

And thank you kdt for saying that their behavior is out of line. I've been trying to convince myself that they aren't being malicious but it feels very malicious. And the more I think about it the more I wonder why they're being cruel. I've tried to set boundaries and they've been stomped repeatedly. Things like shoving pictures of women's bruised and bloody asses in my face and then laughing at my discomfort. I don't treat other people like that and I've been at a loss as to why I'm being treated like that.

My husband has apologized profusely and said that wasn't ok and he shouldn't have done that and neither should anyone else. I genuinely don't know if he means it though. I hope so. I guess time will tell.

He laughed at me for saying I felt judged and wrong for being vanilla. I told him to do a google search as if he were looking for help with my problem from my perspective. He did. I saw his face change as he read the things that came up. He said he didn't agree with most of it. He was then willing to listen to some of the comments and things that have happened. He seems to feel really bad that I've had such a negative experience with kink and that I shouldn't be judged for what I like sexually just like they shouldn't be judged for what they like.

I have hope but no enthusiasm. I just feel broken. I was a sex worker for years. I've been a pro domme. I've always been very sex positive. I was always confident in my skills. Now I just feel like a gross garbage person that nobody could ever want because who I am is not acceptable. I never thought I'd be this person. It's hard to come to terms with.

It is really nice to have somewhere to write this and get it out. I appreciate this forum. I've not found anything on the Internet that feels positive towards someone like me. Thank you all for existing.

 

[fuchka]

Marvelgirl - That's such a difficult thing to be going through. I can fully understand how you feel judged by people who don't know you and feel like you're cast into the role of the "bitch vanilla wife".

From what you've said, it seems to me that you have a very healthy attitude towards sex and consent and you are honouring your boundaries. It's concerning that it sounds like your husband may not have taken enough care of you when you were trying out kink/power exchange. So sorry if you felt you had to process a lot of that alone.

Yes, there are those who will judge this scenario as one of the risks you signed up for when you decided to be poly - but you know it isn't so simple. I hope you find comfort in this forum with people who understand that.

Assuming that your husband's current exploration of BDSM is related to his disinterest in vanilla sex/sex with you - it's still unclear whether this is something that might change in the future or whether you are now incompatible ongoing (as GalaGirl pointed out as one option).

If you are confident in what your preferences and boundaries are around wanting vanilla sex, then all you can do is communicate clearly with your husband about this and see how willing he is to accommodate what you might need to feel ok with continuing a relationship.

It's great that you are strong in yourself and can see that there should be no shame in having a preference for vanilla sex. You shouldn't be pressured to justify your own sexual preferences or need to give reasons. I wanted to say this because even if you didn't have a history of abuse as a child (and I'm very sorry to hear you went through that as a child), there should be no shame or judgement in acknowledging something is not for you, or not even something you are comfortable to try. It's okay to feel that some things are off the table for you.

Your husband can have his needs - whether it's to need you to at least try something out (which you have done) or for you to be be willing/able to continue (which you're not). Likewise you will have your needs which he may/may not be able to meet. You can need each other to do work to examine where barriers may be, in order to continue the relationship, and whether barriers could be overcome... But you can't force anything, even self-examination.

Not sure how well you feel able to communicate with your husband at this point. One thing you can do independently is to think about what it is you need, and what your willingness may be for some of the things you feel asked of you.

 

[fuchka]

Whoops, started writing the above when there was just GalaGirl's reply and then got distracted & didn't refresh before posting my comment. Sorry to be a bit off point and repeating Kevin.

I'm glad to hear this:

He seems to feel really bad that I've had such a negative experience with kink and that I shouldn't be judged for what I like sexually just like they shouldn't be judged for what they like.

I hope that it's a sign he will be more considerate in helping to create a safe environment for you.

If you feel you want to medicate in order to ease things for you, in terms of your libido, it is of course your choice. If you think it's a healthy decision to reduce your burden and help you through, I don't see the problem. You seem like you'd know best about whether it's a good decision or not.

 

[Marvelgirl]

Oh my god Fuchka, thank you so much for using the term "bitch vanilla wife." You can't know how much it helps to see someone else use the term. It makes me feel like I'm not just being crazy.

That's exactly how I feel. And I have heard that term from some of his girlfriends. They don't direct it at me but they've told me about other "bitch vanilla wives" and I'm left sitting there wondering if it's a dig since they know I'm vanilla. Wondering why on earth they would say that to me.

I think I've made a mistake with some of these people. We've always been friendly and sometimes even friends with the people the other was dating. I think some of these women are unhealthy and I've put up with it to be polite and supportive of my husband but I should have stopped everything when these things were done and said and just bluntly said, "Why would you do or say that to me? That was rude and cruel."

Our sex life was still going strong when he started dabbling in BDSM and for several years after. I really do think some of the people he associates with see me as the doormat wife who can't satisfy her husband. And I think that my husband started to share that perception.

He told me this morning he has always loved how strong I am and I told him he doesn't treat me like he loves that I'm strong anymore. He treats me like it's a character flaw that needs to be corrected.

He asked why I didn't bring up some of these things when they happened and I told him that I did and he laughed at me and called me a prude. He got quiet and then cried a little and said, "Holy shit, I'm an asshole." Because now he remembers those times.

Well, I don't like to call him an asshole because I love him but yeah, he's been acting like an asshole. He said he's been thinking of himself being in my position and it makes him feel like shit.

I'm now starting to think we can work through this one way or another because he's talking and actually listening. God, writing it down is really helping. Thank you.

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm glad writing things down helps some and you have some hope in working things out.

You telling him how you feel and seeing you cry is enough for him to promise to see a doctor but then he doesn't actually follow through. But when you start taking herbs to to reduce your llibido to solve your own problem that way.. THEN he follows through?

I get that is upsetting.

But there's so many issues here... I think you are best off picking/choosing your battles and keeping your eye on big picture. He's finally following through on getting a check up. Which is what you wanted. So focus on that.

Take the herbs on your own if that's what you need right now to cope. It's ok to do your own self care so you can get through this rough patch easier.

I think some of these women are unhealthy and I've put up with it to be polite and supportive of my husband but I should have stopped everything when these things were done and said and just bluntly said, "Why would you do or say that to me? That was rude and cruel."

I agree. You didn't advocate for yourself and it led to you feeling bad. Could speak up when you see others doing poor behavior towards you. Do not let it slide.

Besides... if husband cannot see for himself when people are unhealthy... how "supportive" is it to let him hang around unhealthy people without saying anything to him about it? Does he have good "people sense?" Is he weak in this area?

He told me this morning he has always loved how strong I am and I told him he doesn't treat me like he loves that I'm strong anymore. He treats me like it's a character flaw that needs to be corrected.

He asked why I didn't bring up some of these things when they happened and I told him that I did and he laughed at me and called me a prude.

Is that how he always is? He laughs and calls you names? That behavior is off putting.

Whether you decide to address this on "first wave" or put it in the "second wave of things to solve later" bucket... I think eventually you could start calling his behavior into account as soon as it happens.

Like....

"I don't like it when I bring up concerns so we can talk seriously and then you respond by laughing at me and call me names like "prude." Why would you do or say that to me? I find that rude. How does it help solve the concerns?"

He got quiet and then cried a little and said, "Holy shit, I'm an asshole." Because now he remembers those times.

Well, good! He's taking some responsibility for his asshole behavior and feeling remorse.

I've tried to set boundaries and they've been stomped repeatedly. Things like shoving pictures of women's bruised and bloody asses in my face and then laughing at my discomfort. I don't treat other people like that and I've been at a loss as to why I'm being treated like that.

If you don't want to see pictures, you can say so. And them shoving them in your face anyway? That lacks common courtesy and respect. That's crap behavior. So I don't blame you for not wanting to hang around these people or have them in your home.

Healthy BDSM is fine. But ANY way of life has its share of jerks. Whether kink or poly or mono or whatever... there's a portion of the population there who behaves in good ways and a portion that behaves like jerks.

I'm not excusing the behavior. I'm saying... you stick with your boundaries! They are not for other people to obey. You set them up for YOU to obey to help keep you safe. If the boundary is "I don't let myself hang around crap behaving people" and you find yourself among some? You can obey the boundary and get you out of there.

If people behave like jerks? You don't have to hang out with them again. And you do not have to support husband hanging out with them.

My husband has apologized profusely and said that wasn't ok and he shouldn't have done that and neither should anyone else. I genuinely don't know if he means it though. I hope so. I guess time will tell.

Yup. With himself? He will stop behaving poorly toward you from this point forward.

With the "friends?" He will either ask them to stop bothering his wife and exercise some self control when at your home, he will stop hanging around them entirely and seek a different BDSM circle of friends, or keep on with this crowd.

Time will tell.

He laughed at me for saying I felt judged and wrong for being vanilla. I told him to do a google search as if he were looking for help with my problem from my perspective. He did. I saw his face change as he read the things that came up. He said he didn't agree with most of it. He was then willing to listen to some of the comments and things that have happened. He seems to feel really bad that I've had such a negative experience with kink and that I shouldn't be judged for what I like sexually just like they shouldn't be judged for what they like

I don't like that his first reaction is to laugh at you when you raise problems or concerns. But in the end he was willing to listen. So... perhaps there is hope. This is what I mean about "pick and choose your battles."

Solve the main problem first. Then later talk about HOW you communicate and how that could improve in future. The "meta-communication" part of the problem.

Now I just feel like a gross garbage person that nobody could ever want because who I am is not acceptable.

You are acceptable and loveable just as you are. Before husband got in with this jerk crowd, he loved you and accepted you. BF loves you and accepts you. I get that being around this jerk crowd has done a number on you... but this is THEIR garbage being foisted on you. This is not YOU being garbage.

You could work on not taking things on board for yourself that are not yours to take. Rather than take things personally like something must be wrong with you, learn to take it situationally. Like "What's going wrong in this situation?"

In this situation? I think there are jerk people around flinging garbage behavior about. You do not like this. Well... could not stay there getting slimed. Could get you OUT of the line of fire and away from them. They don't sound like a healthy crowd for either of you -- people who bring out your BEST selves.

For you it's bringing out a bad side -- it's making you beat up on your own self up rather than advocate for yourself and care for your self like getting your own self away from yucky people. That is not good behavior for you to be doing to yourself.

For him it's bringing out a bad side -- he's losing empathy and becoming asshole-ish in his behavior. That's not good behavior for him to be doing toward others.

It is really nice to have somewhere to write this and get it out.

I'm glad you feel better for airing out some.

You did a lot already for yourself:

• You are staying away from the jerk people.
  
• You sought support from BF and on here.
  
• You decided to take herbs to decrease libido to help you through this rough patch
  
• You also did some talks with husband that seemed to "break through."

Maybe you want to think about individual counseling later if you need more support?

I would suggest you take a break from the talking and get through his upcoming doc appointment. It's ok to work on this in chunks. It doesn't have to be solved all in one go. Make sure you get some rest in there and self care.

Maintain hope and keep in mind what IS working to penetrate "the jerk fog" he is under -- like asking him to do tangible things like a google search from the other perspective, examining behavior being done/not done.

If concrete things like that penetrate the fog faster... concentrate on concrete things like that.

But def speak up more. If people fling garbage behavior on you (be it husband or the BDSM crowd) say something. "Why would you do / say something like that to me?" rather than letting poor behavior slide.

It's like you wanted to be supportive of husband BDSM interests but you went too far -- accepting all and sundry. Rather than accepting only healthy BDSM people into the home/in your friend circle.

And it's like he wanted so much to explore BDSM that he took in all and sundry... rather than being pickier and only hanging out with healthy and respectful BDSM people. Not just anyone who comes along just because they do some BDSM.

I think both of you could be pickier in the company you choose to keep. Don't hang out with yucky behavior people.

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

Hey there Marvel,

I'm glad your husband is finally coming around and seeing things a little more from your point of view. It sounds like his BDSM "friends" have really gotten him twisted. They're a worse bunch than I had previously realized.

I see nothing wrong with you taking those herbs under the circumstances, and I'm sorry you had to do that before your husband would finally have a wake-up call and see a doctor (and counselor). It's good that *something* finally convinced him. But in the meantime, I think you are well within your rights to go ahead and take those herbs. Until this problem (his lack of libido with you) gets solved.

I think it's really good that you found this forum, and have been able to vent. You have ended up in a deep dark hole, and for the first time, you are finding your strength to start to climb back out. Be hopeful, even if you aren't ready to be enthused. Let this forum be a support for you -- along with your boyfriend. That combined support system, plus your renewed determination, can see you through all of this darkness. Your husband is starting to see the light. Hopefully he will become a supporter of you as well.

Hang in there, and be strong.
Warmly,
Kevin T.

 

[dingedheart]

Marvel, hi and welcome to the forum.

You are not alone in the perception of some in the BDSM a community that feel superior to those not involved. Unlike you I wasn’t directly invited into that world yet I got to read about myself in those negative and condescending terms.
At the time I didn’t know where it was coming from but sadly I it’s the culture . There are people here on the forum that refer to the vanilla population as muggles...( I’ve got kids I’ve seen Harry Potter ) we get it...you’re gifted ..you’re better or so you think.


Sorry to say this but IMO your status as a muggle or vanilla bitch wife has tainted your husband or something else because if he can get and maintain an erection with his gf or gfs and not with you and particularly (like you said )during oral something is wrong upstairs not downstairs.

Will it make you feel better that he has to pop a blue pill to have sex with you ??
To me it would be thanks but not thanks.

Also many parts of your story actually sound abusive ...you may want to talk with someone about that.

 

[powerpuffgrl1969]

I have to agree. I'm not fond of the term "Muggle," or even "Vanilla." To me, vanilla means bland and boring. I don't know why us non-BDSM people are reduced to that.

 

[icesong]

I have to agree. I'm not fond of the term "Muggle," or even "Vanilla." To me, vanilla means bland and boring. I don't know why us non-BDSM people are reduced to that.

Hmm, I am a pretty dedicated kinky person and while I think the OP's husband is being a total asshole and needs to stop, I don't think that the word "vanilla" has quite the connotations you ascribe to it when _I_ use it anyway.

I think this is because I'm pretty passionate about food and geeking about it, and the thing a lot of people don't know about _real_ vanilla is astonishingly labor intensive to grow (the orchids have to be hand-pollinated) and the flavor is correspondingly complex. Most of the things that are labeled as "vanilla" flavored are actually fake (derived from paper pulp of all things) and correspondingly... flat / bland / boring.

(I suspect one could take this analogy even further if one wandered into *good* sex vs uninspired boring sex, but anyway.)

My point here is that if I say "vanilla", I actually do still mean something special.

 

[dingedheart]

Most of the things that are labeled as "vanilla" flavored are actually fake (derived from paper pulp of all things) and correspondingly... flat / bland / boring.

Yes thanks for proving the point. :

(I suspect one could take this analogy even further if one wandered into *good* sex vs uninspired boring sex, but anyway.)

I think you just did.

My point here is that if I say "vanilla", I actually do still mean something special.

Are you sure about that ?

That’s great you and 6foodies it means something different.

I don’t think the labels matter much and I’m not personally offended by them but dislike the hypocrisy. Imagine if the non practicing population referred to the BDSM crowd as sicko’s and creeps they’d be up in arms.

 

[powerpuffgrl1969]

Well, Icesong, I guess it all depends on perception. Like so many things.

I LOVE vanilla. I'm an avid baker and can definitely tell when I have accidentally left it out. Vanilla is great.

However, I have DEFINITELY seen instances where the term "vanilla" is used as a pejorative towards non-kink people. Couple that with the fact that I am a practicing mono, and I sometimes really get the idea that others consider me less evolved and boring.

I came along here when I was bouncing around the idea of having a girlfriend while being married to my husband. It didn't take, but I really like the community as a whole. Lots of different viewpoints are expressed and respected. Not always, but a lot more than on other online communities.

Now, not to continue to hijack, but the OP MUST know that there is NOTHING wrong with her. She was as GGG as she could be (thank you, Mr. Savage), but kink just isn't for her. In an ideal world, as her husband can get his kink fulfilled elsewhere, the situation should be no harm, no foul. It is unfortunate and sad that she has been made to feel "less than" simply by not continuing to engage in what feels uncomfortable to her. I hope that her husband is truly sorry and wishes to make amends.

 

[RideOn]

The energy behind how one expresses any term, generally tells one the intention behind it...