well it's official...but now what?

There are some really great threads on "secondaries" and "unicorns" here, if you do a search in the tags. And you might want to look up the tags for "lessons" and "foundations" too. They might help you get an idea of some stuff that works in starting a dynamic such as yours.

You have the right to whatever you need. It's time to negotiate and find out how everyone wants to go about getting their needs met. Yeah, if you are a triad, then you should have everyone's number. That's kind of a given, no?
 
I gotta echo what everyone else says. Bring up these concerns and thoughts now. The longer you wait, the harder it gets, because patterns in the relationship emerge early on. Best to start the conversation now!
 
SNeacail said:
I think you'll find that each person tends to come up with their own meanings for certain words, and for the most part, it doesn't really matter what "community" you/they are associated with. If you have any doubt or there is any room for misinterpretation, ask for clarification. For some reason, your constant referral to "poly people" or "in the poly community" is bugging me. Just because there are three people involved, doesn't mean any of the basic rules of communication don't apply, nor that you need to accept certain behavior you wouldn't from any one else you were in a relationship with. Don't assume anything.
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I don't mean to be offensive by using those terms. They are not derogatory, so I am not sure why it would bother you. I use them as clarification. I have never been in any relationship even remotely like this, so by pointing that out, I am acknowledging that my questions and concerns might be more out of ignorance than anything else. Also, there are a lot of terms and phrases used in poly relationships that are not used in others or used differently. I was simply wondering if "girlfriend" meant the same thing as it always has in my life because, again, generally monogamous people do not apply that term to a fuck buddy.

Forgive me, I am out of my depth. But I don't see how referring to polyamorous people as such or identifying their relationship in that way is wrong or should bother anyone.
 
They sound like swingers who want to keep their plaything to themselves with only their rules as acceptable. I don't think they really know what being polyamorous means. The fact that Jen so vulgarly asked if you want to suck Ed's cock, when you simply asked to see them, really shows that they are (or at least, Jen is) not thinking of you as a flesh-and-blood-and-heart-and-soul human being who might just want to get together and talk. She sees you as just someone to do her sexual bidding so she can get off.

What audacity and fucking nerve that you must be exclusive to them, when they offer so little beside recreational sex, and on her terms only!

A girlfriend should be someone who does things with them, shares dreams and hopes with them, and has non-sexy times as well as sexy times. I wouldn't say yes to any exclusive arrangement with them, unless I felt I was on level ground and/or could have other relationships.

Do ask what they envision a girlfriend to be, exactly, and how they would like to see the future unfolding for all of you. I would think that if I've sucked someone's cock, and it's still not okay for me to have his email or phone number, or his dick inside me, then they've got some sexual and relationship hang-ups that do not sit well with me and I'm just being used like a whore. It's one thing to reclaim the word slut proudly, but if someone treats me with no respect and I feel like I'm viewed as their whore and sex toy, that's something I would never stand for.

CranberryStardust said:
I don't mean to be offensive by using those terms. They are not derogatory so I am not sure why it would bother you. Forgive me. I am out of my depth. But I don't see how referring to polyamorous people as such or identifying their relationship in that way is wrong or should bother anyone.
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I get why it bothered her-- because being treated decently is something that anyone deserves, whether in a poly or mono relationship. That's why SNeacail wrote, "Just because there are three people involved, doesn't mean any of the basic rules of communication don't apply, nor that you need to accept certain behavior you wouldn't from any one else you were in a relationship with."

Your asking if it's okay to put up with what they've handed you in a poly situation does sound as if you are not using your own common sense about how you deserve to be treated in any kind of relationship. It also makes it seem like you think that poly allows for such gross mistreatment as you're getting. So, it could be frustrating to read again and again, "Is this acceptable in polyamory?" or "Is it okay to ask for this in polyamory?" when the problems you are dealing with are about how you want to be treated in relationships, in general.

It sounds like you know something feels wrong about this situation, but you are not trusting your gut intuition, because you think polyamory might let some of those things slide. Hence SNeacail's "Don't assume anything" comment.

PolyAMORY is about love, respect, and honesty. Amor means "love." The focus is not on sex (although of course it's an important element, for most people). If anything, polyamory requires ultra-vigilance in having respect and consideration for others.

So, really, all you have to ask yourself is, do you feel good about this arrangement, and are you willing to accept the kind of treatment they give you?
 
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Hi there,

It sounds to me, like a few things are going on for the wife in this relationship.

1. Jen can`t have sex, and she is worried about the two of you having sex while she is feeling vulnerable. If this aspect is new for her (her husband having sex with another woman) while pregnant, and unable to participate, it is probably not the right time to start.

2. Having you suck off her husband, or give him hand-jobs, is a way for her to feel like she is meeting her husband's needs, by 'supplying' you to him. Especially if she has a fear of being cheated on. You, in a way, are a puppet she can dictate, and she doesn`t have to worry about him playing elsewhere.

3. By asking you to be their girlfriend, I think Jen might actually be trying to offer you some table-scraps to keep you with them, the basic thinking being that all women are just happy to be claimed and have a boyfriend. She thinks of this as a gift to you, to keep you happy.

Regardless, all of this is not good for you. You will need to talk to them both directly and tell them your take on what polyamory is, and what you want out of the deal.

Also, please remember, it is ok NOT to be negotiable on some things. When someone says to you, "We don`t want you to have sex with other men," yet, you cant have sex with this man either, it is your REASONABLE RIGHT to state, "I respect that you are not ready to share Ed in that way yet. But I will share my body where I please. I will, however, make sure to keep sex safe, and be true to all parties."

You don`t have to ask permission from anyone to control your decisions about your own body.
 
CranberryStardust said:
Is it possible that I am misunderstanding what "girlfriend" means? Maybe I assume it meant more. But do some people/couples in the poly community use that term for just an exclusive sexual partner? In the relationships I have been in, a man would never ask me to be his girlfriend if he just wanted to fuck me. But is that not the case with polyamorists?
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Speaking for myself, I don't call someone my gf or bf unless we have a tight loving relationship, and there's a real feeling of caring and commitment.

I did have a two-year relationship with a younger guy that ended recently. I never called him my bf because our relationship was primarily sexual. I called him my boytoy or my playpartner.

I do have a gf, but we didn't call each other gfs until we'd been together about 6 weeks, and had several weekend-long dates, and messaged every night for hours, when we couldn't be together. When it started to feel odd to not say "I love you" at the end of a weekend together, or a night of chatting, that's when I realized I wanted to call her gf and say "I love you."

If you and your couple have been having sex for four months, and never gone out on a vanilla date as a threesome or one-on-one, I wouldn't say you're their gf. But perhaps you and Jen do go out on dates, have long conversations about your lives, interests, feelings, ups and downs, cook and eat together, cuddle, watch movies. Then maybe she is your gf. If she is, you should surely be able to feel free to talk to her about your needs in this triad: for Ed's phone number and email, for dates with him, for the ability to message him when you feel like it, to talk and enjoy him as a person, not just a sex partner.

I think I am going to feel her out. I might ask when Ed and I can go on our motorcycle ride, since she mentioned that before. If nothing has changed and they aren't just looking for some ass, she should be cool with it. And then I can go from there.
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And not just one motorcycle ride. What about going out on dates on a regular basis? Is Jen interested in that? Is Ed?

We have planned on a sleepover next weekend, so we will see.
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Good luck! Other people have addressed the sex part some more, so I'll leave it at that.
 
I see what you are saying, but in reality, my kind of "common sense" is not applicable in a poly relationship. Because while I have opened myself up to the idea and embrace it, there are a lot of things about polyamory that ARE considered demeaning or degrading in the more mainstream part of society. It would be considered disrespectful and wrong in the world I come from for a man to have sex with anyone other than his wife.

So it's not that I think polyamory is an allowance for bad behavior, or that it is a degrading, hurtful scenario, but that I acknowledge that the rules are completely different. They just are. It is not weird for a person who has always been in exclusive monogamous relationships to wonder if "girlfriend" means the same thing in this totally opposite arrangement. As it turns out, looks like it doesn't necessarily mean the same thing.

I don't want to be mistreated and won't tolerate it. But is my idea of mistreatment more a remnant of my previously monogamous lifestyle? Is it fair for me to expect or want to be allowed to have sex with someone else's husband? Up until now the answer would have always been no.
 
CranberryStardust said:
It is not weird for a person who has always been in exclusive monogamous relationships to wonder if "girlfriend" means the same thing in this totally opposite arrangement. As it turns out, looks like it doesn't necessarily mean the same thing.
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It's not that it means something different (other than "exclusive") when in a poly context, but that YOUR girlfriend may see it differently than you do. Each person here may even have their own definition of the word. Ask 100 people, get 100 answers. This is not a poly vs mono or alternative lifestyle vs traditional issue, it's purely a communication issue between you and your partners.

I am in a mono traditional relationship and my husband and I struggle with this all the time. Stupid, simple common words can cause massive issues because we are working off of different dictionaries and we were too lazy or too caught up in our own assumptions to clarify things.
 
That makes sense. I wasn't trying to make generalizations. Maybe I am too accustomed to those traditional mono relationships, which have the same rules pretty much.

So you can ask what's "normal" and what isn't.

I am beginning to realize how very different and unique polyamorous relationships are from each other, and that maybe there is no "norm." I guess when you involve more people, that is natural.

I am hoping they bring it up, like, how it works and what is okay and what they want, so I can ask and then express my side, and hopefully we are all on the same page.

I'm going there now. And no, I don't intend to suck cock. Lol
 
?
Idk.

Things went okay last night, but I am really beginning to think that this is just a fun sexual game for them, and I am just not cut out for it (too vulnerable, too insecure, too young). I don't think I can do it, and I don't think they care.

It really hit me today that Jen is literally calling ALL the shots, and I think she is hampering any real emotional growth or bonding. When I dirty text her, she is all about it, but if I express something more meaningful or serious, she flat out ignores me. Like, this morning, I told her that if she wanted us all to take a break from the sexual stuff until she could participate (seems unfair to her) that we could do that. I got no response whatsoever. She just ignored it. And I was being thoughtful!

You know what sucks? Up until this "girlfriend" thing, I was fine with just sex and was having fun. Now I am hurt. I didn't think this would hurt.

I asked them last night if they were seeing other girls, and they both said, "No, not right now." As if they could be soon, or want to, or might. And yet, I'm not allowed to date or fuck anyone else.

First poly experience = fail.
 
That's just sucky. :(

Maybe instead of a fail, you can look at it like a growth experience. You figured out that there are things YOU need in a relationship (any relationship), silly things like communication, honesty and RESPECT. :rolleyes: This information is good stuff, and will serve you well in the future, whether you end up in a monogamous relationship or not.

And learning what you HAVE to have, what you need, how to stand up for yourself, and communicate that to a partner will do you well, too.
 
Minxxa said:
Maybe instead of a fail, you can look at it like a growth experience.
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I wholeheartedly agree with that. No one gets it just right from the start. We've been open with my bf all-and-all for almost a year and we're STILL working stuff out. It's my first time with poly too, and it's quite a learning curve.

Don't be discouraged, Cranberry, not everyone is as controlling as Jen. Their relationship sounds a bit odd to me...
 
So break up with them. What will you be losing? Something that makes you feel bad and is going nowhere. OR decide it's worth it to you to be brave enough to lay this all out to them and see what they say. Worst-case scenario, your fears get confirmed and you can leave with a clear conscience. Better to know and face it than to torture yourself with questions.

Seriously, it's okay to just leave. People break up with other people all the time! You can cry it out and get over it and move on.
 
I am rather sad to say I am pretty turned off to the idea of polyamory now. I can see how the primary relationship and people involved in it might be interested and benefit, but anyone else outside of that is just in a risky, less secure position

I am disappointed. I know I've been told to stop referring to "poly people," but I stupidly thought that it would be a different experience than those I have had in the monogamous dating world. It didn't occur to me that a couple could use me just as casually and flippantly as a single dude.

I am really starting to get pissy about Jen. She started this, and Ed and I both enjoy it, but she is blocking. I feel like she is ruining it, but not even in a direct manner that I feel I can respond to. I wish I could talk to Ed, but oh well.

Done with poly.
 
I'm totally relating to your experience, Cranberry. I have had similar ones. (Check out my blog and the poly vignettes thread.) It isn't polyamory's fault; it's certain people. I have completely abandoned sport sex (swinging, casual sex) as a result, and am sticking with what works.

I hope you find something real. Don't waste another moment giving them your energy, body and spirit. I think you would do better searching out other options. Chalk this up to experience and learning what you don't want. The more experience, the better set up you will be for the real thing.
 
Relationships are inherently risky. If you were on the primary side, you could just as easily say that the secondary gets to have all the fun and be the special one, while you are potentially risking your partnership/marriage by letting someone from the outside in. Relationships are not about avoiding risk, they're about enjoying human connection, whether it's monoamory or polyamory.

I'm sorry you got hurt, but I bet you'd be singing a different tune if you'd happen to meet different people. I mean, you just called out single guys for being potential users. Does that mean you're done with monogamy too? I'm not trying to tell you what's right for you, just pointing out that your logic is pretty dang flawed.

You mentioned earlier that you're young and insecure. That's normal and, to be frank, it shows. You posted your first post below yesterday and now, after a single day of this new situation, instead of just being straightforward and asking your partners the questions you've been pondering here, you're talking about ruining things in an indirect manner, which sounds kind of sneaky and creepy.

Just be honest. Wouldn't you want that from them? Or, if you can't handle it all, just leave in a peaceful manner. It's true that monogamous relationships are generally simpler, which is good for someone with a lot of insecurity. But you'll find wonderful people and crappy people in both styles of relationships, and you *always* take the risk of being burned.
 
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CranberryStardust said:
I am rather sad to say I am pretty turned off to the idea of polyamory now.
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As I said in my earlier post, I really don't see what this couple is doing as polyamory. They are swingers just looking to get a commitment to be able to play with a sex partner whenever they want. And they had the balls to call it polyamory, although there are obviously no tender feelings coming from them. Don't be discouraged if you have another opportunity for a real polyAMORous (love) situation. Now you know what to look for. Polyamory is about the love, not the sex! You build on a polyamorous relationship just the same as you would a monoamorous one, on a foundation of respect, caring, and consideration. Sex is part, but not all, of a relationship.
 
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