What's your 'number'?

[MeeraReed]

I'm with FallenAngelina (Karen) on this. Men who declare their determination to "give me" orgasms are a big turn-off for me.

They often seem to think their ability to "give" women lots of orgasms is a point of pride, and makes them a big feminist; but these men also often don't listen to me when I describe what I actually want or what does/doesn't help me orgasm.

I'm not a fan of orgasm-focused sex (and not because I'm into tantric sex either). Just being aroused is fun for me, it's not frustrating and doesn't feel like orgasm-denial. And I think what annoys me about the men who are focused on giving orgasms is that they don't believe me when I say that this is how I like sex.

I can give myself a mind-blowing, earth-shattering orgasm in about 5 minutes. I've been doing it since I was 15. I need exactly zero help with this. If I'm very horny, I can give myself 2 or 3 orgasms in an hour or so, no help needed.

If I want to be delightful lit up with arousal for hours, that's when I'd need a partner's help. And to experience all the fun sensations I can't do by myself, and to do fun things to someone else. If I want to have sex with someone, it's because I want the connection, the sensations, the arousal, etc. It's NOT because I want orgasms. I can have those more efficiently by myself!

One man informed me that this was "sad." He took great pride in his (possibly imagined) ability to "give" women orgasms. He could not give me one, because he would not listen to me when I described what makes me aroused.

When I was younger, I would definitely fake orgasms with these guys. They were super determined to "make me" have an orgasm. They would not listen to me or believe me. It was annoying. It would get to the point where I just wanted the sex to be over because it was so annoying and un-arousing. So I'd fake an orgasm. Great, now we can be done.

Thankfully, I don't do that anymore. I can speak up for myself better, and I am also not embarrassed to inform the dude that nope, I'm not at all close to orgasming, and I'd like to stop now. I also learned how to NOT date dudes who won't listen to me. (The first step was screening out the guys that brag that they love to give women orgasms).

Sure, plenty of women have more or better orgasms with partners, but that's never been me. I'm not especially multi-orgasmic. I'm often done for the day after one, and I don't think that's sad or lacking--it's just how my body's made.

I also sometimes get bladder contractions after an orgasm--triggering the urgent need to pee. (It's definitely urine, not female ejaculate. Although, on that subject, the women I've know who "squirted" were also able have tons, like TONS, of orgasms. That's just how their bodies work. But not everyone's works like that!) Anyway, the bladder contractions can be annoying, so no, I don't always want to orgasm.

The orgasm-focused guys definitely made me feel like there was something wrong with me if I didn't want or couldn't have an orgasm. Or they would make a fuss about how sad they were because they couldn't "give" me an orgasm. Either way, they weren't listening!

 

[Al99]

Although, on that subject, the women I've know who "squirted" were also able have tons, like TONS, of orgasms. That's just how their bodies work. But not everyone's works like that!)

Interesting observation that I had not considered - but true in my experience. The women who have squirted on me during cunnilingus were all multi-orgasmic - limited though that sample might be in relation to a "scientific sample".

Female orgasm discussion - sure, some guys are undoubtedly ego-stroking (pardon...) when they talk about "giving women lots of orgasms" , but for some of us, it is really satisfying and hot to watch a woman climax as she faces you in sex - or to listen to and feel a woman climax while going down on them. It's one of the great joys for a man who loves cunnilingus - but the man does absolutely need to *listen* to what the woman tells him (and most will if you ask). I have a partner who can only climax through penetration (rare, in my experience), and another who loves to "ride the wave" as long as possible when I'm going down on her - staying in that ecstasy zone just sort of orgasm for as long as possible, but lately has come to really enjoy intercourse with a clitoral vibrator going at the same time (powerful and multiple orgasms - and, yes, lots of squirting). But, I do get that for others, it may not be about the orgasm so much at all - for whatever reason that might be. Just a couple of thoughts for the discussion.

Al

 

[Magdlyn]

I'm with FallenAngelina (Karen) on this. Men who declare their determination to "give me" orgasms are a big turn-off for me...

They often seem to think their ability to "give" women lots of orgasms is a point of pride, and makes them a big feminist...

The orgasm-focused guys definitely made me feel like there was something wrong with me if I didn't want or couldn't have an orgasm. Or they would make a fuss about how sad they were because they couldn't "give" me an orgasm. Either way, they weren't listening!

I don't mean to judge people who didn't want to, or can't orgasm. I may have seemed judgmental to Karen for not wanting to cum. I didn't mean to be. We all have our preferences or abilities.

We are all different when it comes to wanting to, needing to, or being able to cum. Personally, I like being mega-orgasmic and a squirter. It's amazing. I like both male and female partners who are multi-orgasmic too. Mostly because if they are, they want sex to go on as long as possible to keep playing, being aroused, and cumming.

But I have been with several men who couldn't cum, or at least, couldn't cum every time we had sex. One was in his 40s, 3 or 4 were in their 60s. All but one were frustrated at their inability to achieve release. They found it frustrating and almost painful. I also found it frustrating and felt like there was something missing. But that's just me. Not because it was a point of pride to "make" them cum. Just because I like cum.

I think there's a difference between wanting to give someone orgasms, and wanting to "make" them cum. Gifting is a kindness. Making someone do something is a power play. I do like power exchange though, if it's consensual. That's just a kink of mine.

However, I once dated a dom for a while who was more into kinks than sex. He was upset by me being so orgasmic. In one session, once, he wouldn't let me cum. That seemed to make him comfortable, to feel "domly." I absolutely hated it. I had the female equivalent of blue balls for 24 hours. My whole pelvis was congested with blood, but I couldn't even achieve release on my own. It was very weird, and very awful, and I was really mad at him.

My current partner is a transgender woman. When we first met, she had just started hormones full time. I found it fascinating how she went from being a one orgasm and done person, to being multi-orgasmic as her body changed. It made sex a lot more fun in some ways!

 

[morganc]

I've been sexually intimate with five people, and I'm 29.

 

[vinsanity0]

I now want to find a partner who doesn't want to cum. I'm imagining it would be a very pressure free sexual relationship.

 

[Magdlyn]

I now want to find a partner who doesn't want to cum. I'm imagining it would be a very pressure free sexual relationship.

So you feel "pressure" to make partners cum?

 

[vinsanity0]

So you feel "pressure" to make partners cum?

Well my comment was a little tongue in cheek, but yes, men are expected to perform in a hetero sex scenario. So the pressure is on, even if it's not vocalized by my partner.

 

[SenatorBinks27]

Female orgasm discussion - sure, some guys are undoubtedly ego-stroking (pardon...) when they talk about "giving women lots of orgasms" , but for some of us, it is really satisfying and hot to watch a woman climax as she faces you in sex - or to listen to and feel a woman climax while going down on them. It's one of the great joys for a man who loves cunnilingus - but the man does absolutely need to *listen* to what the woman tells him (and most will if you ask).

This very much. Both that, for me, it's a "I want this to feel as good if not better for you than it does for me" because I love sharing good feelings, and that communication is key. I also feel like I'm always learning too, and I want to learn so I can give better and better experiences.

Where this sometimes comes to a head is when the partner either has no experience or has nothing but bad experiences. That's when I'm more likely to say "at least let me try before you write it off" and am more likely to feel bad if I fail. But again that comes more from a place of "if anyone deserves to feel this good, it's you who was denied". And like anything else interpersonal, I am always learning how to best express this without accidentally causing unintended damage - oftentimes being on the Spectrum is to have the world think your words mean the opposite of what you're trying to say.

 

[Magdlyn]

Well, my comment was a little tongue in cheek, but yes, men are expected to perform in a hetero sex scenario. So the pressure is on, even if it's not vocalized by my partner.

"Men are expected to perform."

I am sorry you have gotten this message from society somehow. Personally, I never think of a partner's participation in sex sharing as a performance. That implies you're up on a stage, entertaining, being judged.

I think of sex as communication, a dance, an equal sharing of pleasure and lovely feelings.

It seems you are implying foreplay and intercourse are a chore meant to please a woman just enough so that you can be allowed to cum, something to be gotten over with, and not mutually enjoyed.

Are "women expected to perform" as well, in your mind? Or is it just the guy? What if it's two guys, or two women? Which one is the "performer" and which one is the "audience"?

 

[kdt26417]

Re (from LBeyond):

"Despite being quite sexually open when I'm emotionally intimate with a partner, I sit right at three. My first young love in high school, one pretty disastrous bit in college, and then my wife a year or two after."

I'm surprised, I thought your ex (from last year) would also be on the list. (sorry for the hijack)

 

[vinsanity0]

"Men are expected to perform."

I am sorry you have gotten this message from society somehow. Personally, I never think of a partner's participation in sex sharing as a performance. That implies you're up on a stage, entertaining, being judged.

I think of sex as communication, a dance, an equal sharing of pleasure and lovely feelings.

It seems you are implying foreplay and intercourse are a chore meant to please a woman just enough so that you can be allowed to cum, something to be gotten over with, and not mutually enjoyed.

Are "women expected to perform" as well, in your mind? Or is it just the guy? What if it's two guys, or two women? Which one is the "performer" and which one is the "audience"?

You are funny. I've seen you describe sexual liasons as if you had some kind of scorecard.

I happen to enjoy foreplay very much. It only seems like a chore if the woman (in the case of hetero sex, which is what I specifically mentioned) isn't responsive or communicative. I've been with plenty of women who aren't even into foreplay. They just expect a hard-on and a quick bang. Those relationships don't last long because they aren't that interesting to me. Yes, both men and women can suck at sex.

Obviously I can't speak to how sex is between two women, since I'm not one, so not sure why you would ask me that. In the case of two men we are pretty easy to please...lol

 

[FallenAngelina]

Well my comment was a little tongue in cheek, but yes, men are expected to perform in a hetero sex scenario. So the pressure is on, even if it's not vocalized by my partner.

This is really helpful and explains the orgasm derby attitude that is rampant these days. Helps explain why many men are so intensely focused on making it happen and getting the validation. If women are pressuring them to "perform well," then it's understandable why guys are so intent on letting us know what a good job they can do. You're absolutely right that periodically taking the orgasm off the table eliminates all pressure to show up and just allows the partners to be together in a relaxed sexual way, appreciating anything and everything that they find together. It's so intimate and bonding.

 

[Magdlyn]

You are funny. I've seen you describe sexual liaisons as if you had some kind of scorecard.

Have I? Or are you interpreting it through your "performance" bias? Certainly, I've heard of men's hard-ons and fucking described as "performance," especially in ads for testosterone enhancing drugs or Viagra, etc. I am just even more saddened to think that you also view foreplay/moreplay as performing, and not as play or interaction or communication. It sounds so distancing and fake.

I happen to enjoy foreplay very much. It only seems like a chore if the woman (in the case of hetero sex, which is what I specifically mentioned) isn't responsive or communicative.

So, if you enjoy it so much, supposedly, with a responsive involved partner, why is it a performance for you, and not just enjoyably intimate?

Obviously I can't speak to how sex is between two women, since I'm not one, so not sure why you would ask me that.

I was asking you to extrapolate. To use your imagination for a minute. Is everyone just "performing sex," in your view? That is so sad.

In the case of two men we are pretty easy to please...lol

Easy to please? Like, you like a hand job, a blow job, and a fuck? Well, I like hands and mouths and fucking too (I also love kissing and breast play, but then, so do many men). I'm a woman. So where is this big gender gap where men are performers and women are the audience? I'm so confused.

 

[vinsanity0]

Have I? Or are you interpreting it through your "performance" bias? Certainly, I've heard of men's hard-ons and fucking described as "performance," especially in ads for testosterone enhancing drugs or Viagra, etc. I am just even more saddened to think that you also view foreplay/moreplay as performing, and not as play or interaction or communication. It sounds so distancing and fake.



So, if you enjoy it so much, supposedly, with a responsive involved partner, why is it a performance for you, and not just enjoyably intimate?



I was asking you to extrapolate. To use your imagination for a minute. Is everyone just "performing sex," in your view? That is so sad.



Easy to please? Like, you like a hand job, a blow job, and a fuck? Well, I like hands and mouths and fucking too (I also love kissing and breast play, but then, so do many men). I'm a woman. So where is this big gender gap where men are performers and women are the audience? I'm so confused.

I think you are focusing heavily on the word "performance" in order to make a point. However, the word can mean several things. You are treating it in the sense of a seal performing a trick. I am speaking more toward the meaning as how well one accomplishes an activity. I don't think anyone of any gender enjoys having sex with someone who doesn't do it good. Unfortunately, if a man can't get it up he is either considered not good, or not interested. I don't think there is any way to extrapolate from that how it would be with two women. I can only say from personal experience that bi women are less inclined to place as much importance on a hard on, but they are certainly not immune to that. Sure, you and Karen claim it doesn't matter to you, but surely you realize that you are not in the majority. Society hasn't conditioned me to this. This comes from personal experience. Perhaps society has conditioned them.

 

[vinsanity0]

This is really helpful and explains the orgasm derby attitude that is rampant these days. Helps explain why many men are so intensely focused on making it happen and getting the validation. If women are pressuring them to "perform well," then it's understandable why guys are so intent on letting us know what a good job they can do. You're absolutely right that periodically taking the orgasm off the table eliminates all pressure to show up and just allows the partners to be together in a relaxed sexual way, appreciating anything and everything that they find together. It's so intimate and bonding.

Yes! It is very intimate and bonding.

I am really confused by the posts here complaining that men feel they can "dole out" an orgasm. So often, in general, we have been accused of not being attentive and focusing on our own orgasm. Now men are aware and try better to please a woman and are being told that's bad?

I think this is one of the reasons I like kinky sex better than vanilla sex. At least with kinky sex things are discussed before anything happens. It's so hard to find vanilla partners who are good with that amount of communication.

 

[fuchka]

I am really confused by the posts here complaining that men feel they can "dole out" an orgasm. So often, in general, we have been accused of not being attentive and focusing on our own orgasm. Now men are aware and try better to please a woman and are being told that's bad?

Well, I wouldn't complain if a sexual partner was interested / focused on my pleasure. Not necessarily orgasm-focused, but taking cues from my desires as much as I would be taking cues from theirs.

What is annoying is when a partner drowns out what I actually want with their ideas of what I would want. Being obsessed with "giving me orgasms" or bragging about how great they are at that is a turn off.

I remember a woman I was dating who was really into how much she could make girlfriends cum. She would keep telling me to relax more and ask me why I never orgasmed with her. Thing is, I did cum with her but just not in a way that she recognised. At that time I was much quieter than I am now That experience is probably memorable as we dated for a while.

I've had many other experiences (usually one-offs) with people overly intent on getting me off in particular ways. Maybe due to their own anxieties of "doing a good job"? But end result was it wasn't enjoyable for me.

That said, I may well have been on the giving end of that, for other people. I guess you might not know.

I reckon we'd all like to be good sexual partners, and we all approach sex with our own range of sexual moves (limited by our physical capabilities, our willingness and our imagination) and it's a separate skill to translate that into something that's responsive to as well as enjoyable and exciting for another person. I agree that with kink there's way more direct negotiation than many people have with sexual partners outside the kink scene.

 

[FallenAngelina]

Now men are aware and try better to please a woman and are being told that's bad?

It's not bad for men to give, of course, it can just sometimes devolve into a to-do list situation. You're saying that women contribute to this as much as men ("Hardon? Check. Gives me my orgasms first? Check.") It's been really helpful to hear you describe the orgasm derby from a man's point of view.

I think this is one of the reasons I like kinky sex better than vanilla sex. At least with kinky sex things are discussed before anything happens.

Oh, what I'm describing entails all kinds of kinky. There is no need to separate the two flavors - in my kitchen, anyway.

 

[SenatorBinks27]

I think the bottom line is that good communication between partners is essential for a good time, and fucked-up and hard-dying societal misconceptions about sexuality, sex, and gender, make it harder to do that without unlearning our conditioning.

 

[Magdlyn]

I think you are focusing heavily on the word "performance" in order to make a point. However, the word can mean several things. You are treating it in the sense of a seal performing a trick. I am speaking more toward the meaning as how well one accomplishes an activity.

OK, if all you are talking about is having great sexual and kink skills, and having lots of enthusiasm, and being responsive to what really makes your partner happy, I see no need to call it a "performance." That is what was confusing me. I'd just never take a new lover by the hand to head to the bedroom, and think, much less, say, "OK, baby, let's see how you perform." He's a lover, not a paid entertainer.

I don't think anyone of any gender enjoys having sex with someone who doesn't do it well.

You'd be surprised. I've spoken to many men who are fine if the woman just lies back and opens her legs. All they want is an open vagina. To them, that's all sex is. "Any sex, even bad, is better than no sex." I have had to explain to more than one guy that, for me, bad sex is worse than no sex at all. And certainly, bad kink can hurt in the wrong ways, and even be dangerous.

Unfortunately, if a man can't get it up, he is either considered not good, or not interested. I don't think there is any way to extrapolate from that how it would be with two women. I can only say from personal experience that bi women are less inclined to place as much importance on a hard on, but they are certainly not immune to that. Sure, you and Karen claim it doesn't matter to you, but surely you realize that you are not in the majority. Society hasn't conditioned me to this. This comes from personal experience. Perhaps society has conditioned them.

I have to admit, it does matter to me. I do prefer a hard cock. I was spoiled by my ex h. He'd get hard, and stay hard until he came, no matter what we were doing sexually. Even well into his 50s, he never struggled with ED.

But since we broke up, I have experienced a wide range of penis behavior lol. I've learned to accommodate sizes, shapes, hardness, softness, and how a pre-op transgender woman's genitals behave too. I've also been with cis women. I also got to explore my kinky side and learn much more about that.

One story though, is sad. I met this guy off of OKC and he seemed to have it all. He was 45, tall, built, gorgeous, well groomed, intelligent, successful, humble, funny, fun to talk to. He was also somewhat experienced in polyamory. When we got to the point of having sex, I found out he had a 12" cock. I like a big cock. I have a fluffy figure and a deep vagina, so big cocks just fit me better. I thought I'd won the lottery.

But the sex was bad. He barely kissed me. He touched my boobs and fingered me for maybe 2 minutes. He didn't eat me. He didn't offer himself to be sucked. He just got on top. He fucked me and I came a bunch, at first. But he never moved from missionary. He just kept sawing away. I got bored. He came. He got up, put on a new condom, and then got on top again and fucked me. He came again. He stayed hard after the orgasm and kept fucking me. It sounds fun, maybe? But it was boring! Like sawing wood. lol I was just a receptacle.

This was an afternoon date. He got a call from work, and had to leave, and I was kind of glad... otherwise I didn't know how it was going to be over. lol

He probably thought he gave a "great performance."

I was willing to give him another chance, to see if we could mix things up more, but unfortunately his son started having problems in school, and various other life things happened. So we stopped seeing each other. So, this was a case of a guy with a huge hard cock just giving me bad sex.

I am really confused by the posts here complaining that men feel they can "dole out" an orgasm. So often, in general, we have been accused of not being attentive and focusing on our own orgasm. Now men are aware and try better to please a woman and are being told that's bad?

That confuses me too. I have never been with the type of men Karen described, who have this weird "pride" about delivering orgasms. Or if I have, I didn't notice, or see it as a negative, because I love orgasms. LOL

Sometimes with Pixi, I might think I am done cumming in a session, but she might be feeling excited and loving, and keep working on me, and make me cum several more times. And I think that's great, to have her draw a few more out of me. Then I feel even more satisfied and sparkly afterwards.

Of course, if I know I am done, I tell her, and she stops. If she didn't stop (and if those kinds of men won't stop), and didn't have my consent to continue, I'd consider it sexual abuse.

 

[icesong]

I have to say I have *totally* encounted the "must give orgasms" and loudly proclaims it type of guy, though not in bed as honestly the way they approach it kind of turns me off.

What I'm referring to is a certain sort of ... belief that they are good at providing sexual pleasure to any woman as though women are all interchangeable and they've achieved some sort of sexual Konami code combined with a *disbelief* that they're bringing anything else to the partnership table, but hey they're good in bed so they're almost owed sex. It's a different variation, I think, on the "but I'm a nice guy!" chorus from certain sorts of men who resent being in the so-called "friends-zone".

Like, I've met certain men in the swinger community who had that sort of "I can make anyone come" pride and it very much felt like they were trying to compensate for something.

(And I say this as someone who like Magdlyn does come fairly easily and often with the right partner and even enjoys forced-orgasm kink - but the difference is whether a partner is specifically acting from a place of connection *with me* rather than just "I want to make *any* woman come". )