Nope, nothing to do with that. As soon as someone wants to spend quality time with me in view of assessing our compatibility for a romantic and/or sexual relationship, it's my responsibility as an ethically non-monogamous person to tell that person that I am involved with others and/or monogamy will not be a part of my future. There will be very few guys on a dating site, for example, that would want to meet me having already definitely excluded sex and/or a romantic relationship, thus rendering my relationship status and style irrelevant to our meeting.
When do you tell new SOs?
- Thread starter baughb
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InsaneMystic
Member
I see it the same way as my asexuality - to be discussed at the very latest on the first date, and preferrably before that first date even starts. Anything else would make me feel that I had it coming if and when I get called out for "leading them on". I really don't see the point in not describing the sitch honestly as it is, right from the start.
I've only ever dated people from OKCupid since I split from my ex-husband. So... yeah. I mention ethical non-monogamy on my OKC profile, and only date people who have actually read my profile.
Generally, if their first couple of PMs are interesting, we chat online, and my relationship status (I have a live-in gf and a bf nearby) is soon revealed. I don't date someone under an 85% match, so chances are this potential match is poly too, or cool with it, at least.
Generally, if their first couple of PMs are interesting, we chat online, and my relationship status (I have a live-in gf and a bf nearby) is soon revealed. I don't date someone under an 85% match, so chances are this potential match is poly too, or cool with it, at least.
SchrodingersCat
Active member
I also think this is largely an "It depends, use your own judgement" kind of question.
There can not be one hard and fast rule that will be best for each and every person in each and every dating/romantic/life situation. Some people have jobs that require them to exercise a little more discretion. Others prioritize their family and living arrangements and need everyone to know the scoop up front.
Your own situation will dictate the best course of action for when and how you broach the subject. Perhaps you'll want to bring up non-monogamy in a hypothetical setting. Perhaps you'll want to casually mention your partner the way you would to any co-worker or friend, as a given, to see if they pick up on it and how they react.
At the end of the day, you have to do what feels best for you. If someone feels led on or tricked, chances are there were other incompatibility issues anyway and this is just one of many ways it could have failed to launch.
There can not be one hard and fast rule that will be best for each and every person in each and every dating/romantic/life situation. Some people have jobs that require them to exercise a little more discretion. Others prioritize their family and living arrangements and need everyone to know the scoop up front.
Your own situation will dictate the best course of action for when and how you broach the subject. Perhaps you'll want to bring up non-monogamy in a hypothetical setting. Perhaps you'll want to casually mention your partner the way you would to any co-worker or friend, as a given, to see if they pick up on it and how they react.
At the end of the day, you have to do what feels best for you. If someone feels led on or tricked, chances are there were other incompatibility issues anyway and this is just one of many ways it could have failed to launch.
IndieSolo
Active member
Yes, but it can take a few dates to get to that point (where someone expresses interest or desire for a relationship), in my experience. That's why I say there is no formula, such as, "the talk must happen before going out," or on the first date. I just go with the flow and see what indications there are that there is mutual interest/compatibility/desire and talk about it when that becomes evident. Like I said, for me, it could happen on the first date, or we could wake up in bed together a few mornings before that discussion organically happens.
You are assessing romantic compatibility from the very first date. Dinner with a friend isn't a date. Dinner with a group of friends isn't a date. When someone asks you to spend time with them alone, or perhaps on a double date with another couple, they are asking you purely because they enjoy spending time with you thus far and want to assess if you are compatible for more than the friendship you are developing, or already have. Withholding information that may affect their conclusion about how compatible you are once someone has asked you out to dinner or the like in these circumstances isn't good ethical practice, in my opinion.
I already gave you an example from a dating site, but if it were a casual acquaintance, a friend of a friend whom I knew from social events, and he invited me out for dinner when we met at a friend's BBQ, for example, it would be my job to tell him right then. I'd tell him then that I have open relationships only, so he can decide if he still wants to go out for dinner, or if we leave it as we are now, casual acquaintances, because non-monogamy isn't something he wants to be a part of. He isn't taking me out for dinner for any other reason than to assess our romantic compatibility. I have information that may affect his perception of our compatibility. It would only be ethical to provide him with that.
I think tonnes of us would be mighty upset if the person we woke up with suddenly told us that they were married and cheating, so I don't understand why anyone would believe that it is okay to withhold the fact that you are ethically non-monogamous, possibly involved with others, and have no intention of ever having a monogamous relationship.
I don't like the implication that we have an obligation to protect monogamous people from the "horrible" experience of going on a date with a non-monogamous person. That makes it seem like being non-monogamous is so awful and so unusual that we must be honor-bound to explain it right away so that no one wastes their precious time with us under "false pretenses."
On the other hand, I do explain as soon as possible that I'm non-monogamous, because I don't want to waste my time with someone who is going to be horrified and disgusted by me.
However, relationship style is only one of the many things that people find out about each other through dating. There really is no one set rule about when you have to reveal things about yourself. It depends on the circumstances.
When do I reveal that I'm 32 and back living with my parents? When do I explain that I'm only just now feeling recovered from a bad break-up three years ago, and that I spent over two years in deep depression because of it? When do I say that I don't want kids and that my main life goal is to live alone? Some of that is way too much information BEFORE we even go on a date. Other stuff (wanting to live alone and not wanting kids) is all over my OKC profile; but if I met someone at a party and he asked me out for coffee the next day, it would be really weird and presumptuous if I said, "Just so you know, I don't ever want kids!" BEFORE the coffee date.
There might be circumstances where people do want to explain something like that before a first date. Like, a single parent might want any prospective dates to know that they have kids before any dates happen. On the other hand, if a single parent meets someone and has a night of casual sex, are they obligated to explain that they have a kid? Maybe only the next morning, when they discuss whether they want to see other again or not.
I have found that in the world of single-and-dating, casual dating, "dating around," non-exclusive dating, etc, where there is no assumption of exclusivity before sexual activity takes place, there is no obligation to explain EVERYTHING about yourself immediately. Part of the fun of dating that way is the sense of mystery, the "naturalness" of getting to know each other with no expectation of serious commitment until & unless you get to know each other well enough to know you're compatible.
My point is that there are different approaches to dating (as NYCindie said), and it doesn't make sense to be judgmental about when one reveals their relationship style.
On the other hand, I do explain as soon as possible that I'm non-monogamous, because I don't want to waste my time with someone who is going to be horrified and disgusted by me.
However, relationship style is only one of the many things that people find out about each other through dating. There really is no one set rule about when you have to reveal things about yourself. It depends on the circumstances.
When do I reveal that I'm 32 and back living with my parents? When do I explain that I'm only just now feeling recovered from a bad break-up three years ago, and that I spent over two years in deep depression because of it? When do I say that I don't want kids and that my main life goal is to live alone? Some of that is way too much information BEFORE we even go on a date. Other stuff (wanting to live alone and not wanting kids) is all over my OKC profile; but if I met someone at a party and he asked me out for coffee the next day, it would be really weird and presumptuous if I said, "Just so you know, I don't ever want kids!" BEFORE the coffee date.
There might be circumstances where people do want to explain something like that before a first date. Like, a single parent might want any prospective dates to know that they have kids before any dates happen. On the other hand, if a single parent meets someone and has a night of casual sex, are they obligated to explain that they have a kid? Maybe only the next morning, when they discuss whether they want to see other again or not.
I have found that in the world of single-and-dating, casual dating, "dating around," non-exclusive dating, etc, where there is no assumption of exclusivity before sexual activity takes place, there is no obligation to explain EVERYTHING about yourself immediately. Part of the fun of dating that way is the sense of mystery, the "naturalness" of getting to know each other with no expectation of serious commitment until & unless you get to know each other well enough to know you're compatible.
My point is that there are different approaches to dating (as NYCindie said), and it doesn't make sense to be judgmental about when one reveals their relationship style.
IndieSolo
Active member
Well, you're just being dense and argumentative now. I already stated that it's different for married people. I already stated I am solo. I have only stated this is how I approach it. I never said I was recommending anyone else do it the way I do. I don't date only to "assess romantic possibilities." (I am not into romance per se, but that's another topic.) I date because someone seems interesting and I think I'd like to get to know him, or he seems like good company to do something fun with.
You've made your point, and I've clarified mine, so stop being so obtuse. You're becoming tedious.
Exactly.
Good point. I don't get along with people who are always so quick to take offense at things. You get disappointing news, deal with it and move on. If someone has hopes about being with me and doesn't want to accept my being non-monogamous, they'll live. I would hope that a few coffee dates or dinners out with me would still be something they enjoyed. If they're going to be indulging in self-pity and feeling deceived because I didn't lay out everything I'm all about right away, they're not my kind of guy. I don't dig uptight people.
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Delphinius
New member
It is different for everyone and every circumstance. And if my husband's experience is a good example (as well as a couple thread themes on this forum), it's much harder for married men to find compatible female companions.
But let me get this straight-- we are dealing with adults, right? Part of dating is trying people on for size and seeing if they fit... not living with them, not marrying them; dating them.
Some people decide outright they won't date a married person, or someone with HPV or HIV, or someone who's from a certain country or whatever. They make the decision before they meet someone who may actually be a great fit in their life. Sometimes people need to meet someone awesome who they might not have entertained as a mate option in order to entertain a change in philosophy.
Because of the stigma and programming of our society, some people close themselves off to options, and the only way they might open up their options is to meet someone who lights them up, turns them on.
Yes, it might not work out, or they might not be compatible, and/or someone's fee-fees might get a little bruised. Yes, instead of opening their mind, someone might feel keeping relationship status in hand for the first couple dates might be unethical. And some may have a hard limit and not be open to it at all and be pissed. It's all part of dating adults.
I'd venture to guess that if someone is really into smoking pot regularly, or they're a crossdresser, or really kinky, or they howl at the moon every equinox, they may not disclose those tendencies for a couple dates, again, just to see if there's even a chance.
But let me get this straight-- we are dealing with adults, right? Part of dating is trying people on for size and seeing if they fit... not living with them, not marrying them; dating them.
Some people decide outright they won't date a married person, or someone with HPV or HIV, or someone who's from a certain country or whatever. They make the decision before they meet someone who may actually be a great fit in their life. Sometimes people need to meet someone awesome who they might not have entertained as a mate option in order to entertain a change in philosophy.
Because of the stigma and programming of our society, some people close themselves off to options, and the only way they might open up their options is to meet someone who lights them up, turns them on.
Yes, it might not work out, or they might not be compatible, and/or someone's fee-fees might get a little bruised. Yes, instead of opening their mind, someone might feel keeping relationship status in hand for the first couple dates might be unethical. And some may have a hard limit and not be open to it at all and be pissed. It's all part of dating adults.
I'd venture to guess that if someone is really into smoking pot regularly, or they're a crossdresser, or really kinky, or they howl at the moon every equinox, they may not disclose those tendencies for a couple dates, again, just to see if there's even a chance.
InsaneMystic
Member
It's just as much about protecting myself from the experience of going on a date with a monogamous person (or someone who'd expect sex from me some time in our potential relationship, for that matter). Dating them would be a waste of time in the best of cases, both for them and for me... and I don't know about them, but I do have better things to do with that time.
Seriously, I'd be very impressed with someone doing a "Sheldon-Cooper-light" style approach, and rattle off their list of dealbreakers the moment a date becomes an option. (Whipping out a fifty-page contract or a questionnaire rivalling a college application would be pushing it, though.
) I like pragmatic efficiency. If that list indicates no potential of compatibility between us beyond platonic friendship, why waste the time a full date would have taken, when you can get the same effect in two minutes beforehand?
Doesn't all this depend on what your intentions are in going out with people?
Just an evening out to have a good time?
Checking to see if the person you're with has relationship potential?
If you have the same goals and interests in why you're spending time together?
Sure, there are comments about jobs and employment that may require discretion.
Some people are looking for long-term relationships (even monogamists) and spending time dating someone that has no intentions of being tied down may be seen as time better spent pursuing people with the same interests. These are things to bring up ASAP.
Yes, hard and fast universal rules are problematic. But if you know that what you're looking for could be different than what the other person may be looking for or expecting, this could lead to problems.
I have a friend who really wanted kids. Her bf was adamantly against it. They're no longer together (as of a couple days ago). She's heartbroken.
It doesn't have to be non-monogamy you're upfront about. It could be anything, as early as everyone is comfortable with, to let everyone know what their interests are upfront. Otherwise, someone may be very upset when the reality of different expectations are faced.
Just an evening out to have a good time?
Checking to see if the person you're with has relationship potential?
If you have the same goals and interests in why you're spending time together?
Sure, there are comments about jobs and employment that may require discretion.
Some people are looking for long-term relationships (even monogamists) and spending time dating someone that has no intentions of being tied down may be seen as time better spent pursuing people with the same interests. These are things to bring up ASAP.
Yes, hard and fast universal rules are problematic. But if you know that what you're looking for could be different than what the other person may be looking for or expecting, this could lead to problems.
I have a friend who really wanted kids. Her bf was adamantly against it. They're no longer together (as of a couple days ago). She's heartbroken.
It doesn't have to be non-monogamy you're upfront about. It could be anything, as early as everyone is comfortable with, to let everyone know what their interests are upfront. Otherwise, someone may be very upset when the reality of different expectations are faced.
Why? Simply because I am questioning their ethics of your approach? I'll thank you for not trying to prevent me sharing my views.
It isn't, in my book. Same thing. You have no interest in the default relationship setting, and ethically speaking, should share this before dating someone. They may not want to spend any time with you alone once they know your lifestyle. You should allow them the opportunity to make that decision from the outset, not anywhere down the line that you feel is now a suitable time for them to have a say about whom they spend their time with.
So? You obviously missed the parts of my last comment so I'll helpfully highlight the important bits for you:
And I am questioning the ethics of your approach.
Good.
You do realise that a date involves two people, right? You do realise that gaining consent means you gain consent from the other person? The other person may well only be on that date with you to assess your compatibility for a romantic relationship. You've already expressed that you habitually withhold information which could be considered vital by lots of people, seemingly so you can enjoy the time you want with them, regardless of whether they would want to be there with you if they knew the complete truth. Their desires, wishes and needs are of no importance to you.
One of the hardest things I've found to do is stick to my morals when someone else doesn't like them and wants to start a fight over them.
If someone picks a fight, they are starting it on their terms. Getting defensive usually avoids the point you're trying to make, and puts a lot of energy into giving the other person justification for their actions, despite that they were out of line to begin with.
If someone picks a fight, they are starting it on their terms. Getting defensive usually avoids the point you're trying to make, and puts a lot of energy into giving the other person justification for their actions, despite that they were out of line to begin with.
See, it tends to make me stick to mine more vehemently. In this instance, seeing the opposing view to complete disclosure about being non-monogamous when on the dating scene just squicks me right out. I'll now make doubly sure that anyone who even looks at me flirtatiously knows.
IndieSolo
Active member
Well, it's a good thing your opinion means nothing to me, London, because you are being obtuse, tedious, and pedantic and obviously cannot comprehend anything I write at all. Where did I say I habitually withhold info? I said it depends on the flow of conversation and the dynamic of the person I am with. Oftentimes it is revealed on a first date with me that I am seeing other people. I just don't feel it's a requirement to blurt it out then unless the conversation goes that way.
Again, I will repeat it so you can get it through your thick head: sometimes I say it on a first date, sometimes a second date, sometimes a third date, sometimes while in bed with someone. Got it? Read it a few times so the words sink in, London. There is no habitual withholding of information.
There have never been any negative repercussions from doing it this way. I don't even date that often. This is just a thread where people are offering opinions and viewpoints. Why do you feel it is necessary to scold someone else and hammer them with yours as if it were the only ethically correct One True Way? Dating means something different to me than it does to you.
And just where did I say I have no intention of ever having a monogamous relationship? I have repeatedly stated on these boards that I am open to either poly or mono. It's not the configuration that's important to me. It's the person. If I met someone whom I clicked with, and monogamy made sense, I would go there, although I wouldn't want to be exclusive right away.
This whole notion of preparing someone so we can avoid any upset for them and make sure they consent to our lifestyle is ridiculous. If someone asks me out, and is disappointed or upset to find out during a date that I am not what he wants, or do not live the way he would hope I would, then, oh well. Life is full of disappointments. They will not wither and die when they find out they are having a cocktail with someone who is not into exclusivity at this point in their life.
IT'S ONLY A DATE, NOT A CONTRACT NEGOTIATION!
I do not feel I need to lay out every detail of how I live my life to anyone I sit with for an hour or two over a cup of coffee. Sometimes a conversation flows around politics, art, the economy, so-o-o many other things in life. Why do I need to be so self-centered that we should talk about me and my relationships before anything else? Neither of us might even know whether or not we're interested in each other until the end of a date. If interest is expressed, then the subject often is discussed, but I am not going to prematurely assume interest is there. I date adults, and it's not my responsibility to coddle and protect every person who might have expectations.
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Marcus
Well-known member
Yeah, NYCinidie, why you gotta be such a Grinch about handing out information?? lol
It's evident that we are all in favor of letting new interests know that we are non-monogamous whenever it becomes appropriate to do so. We may make minor distinctions on what that timeline is, but no one wants to set up a potential romantic interest for emotional damage.
You can try and justify it how you wish, try and abuse and belittle me in whatever way you think you'll be able to force me to agree with you, or try and downplay it so as to make believe that a date isn't commonly a way that people assess romantic compatibility. I still strongly believe that it's wholly unethical to have a date with someone without disclosing that you are fucking and/or dating other people. I don't think it constitutes ethical non-monogamy.
If my opinion really means that little to you, you'll have no cause to comment on it.