when I first discovered this

[NWcolony]

when I was growing up, there were a significant number of girl pairs around. Some my age and some older. But the first thing I noticed about then that is alot different than today. Is back then, there was nothing unusual or out or place in the community. Other than they were always called sisters for lack of better name.

what began as a kissy huggy in public thing, evolved into a sleepover bestie kind of situation. But mainly these girls were friends for life where there was alot of Trust. Several of these pairs I knew in later years, even though married, were still in contact.

I had real close connection with these pairs and close enough where if we didnt have these pressing lifestyle arrangements. We would have easily been all living together without any words having to be spoken...... we were just family

at the same time, I had several male encounters and connections,,,,, although it wasnt quite as frequent as with the girls

at this time as the Gay Scene was developing, when all of a sudden now matter what we did, was immediately associated with this lifestyle, put a wedge between us of despair and confusion

As I grew older and interacted around the Hollywood area. I have never been able to interact with this, because of how I started, never seemed to match. I never had to use any names before, or assume any identity.

I became acquainted with a older woman that I was doing some work for and we became intimately involved (which I will spare you the details of) that ended up as a Sexologist at a nearby University, in which we had numerous discussions.

is where I became informed how this lifestyle has always been a part of life that has gone on for 1000s of years. That has really never gone by any rules, other than just by social customs of the Era involved. She brought much Historical Literature and Journals illustrating these Facts and Customs similarities thru the Ages.

I have since been involved with a number of different relationships where this Primal Bond overrides everything else present. Whether its Homo Erotic, D/s, or group, or all. Everything works fine, until the Internet came along and names come out and anyone involved starts labeling everything is when everything falls apart......

and so what I am looking for right now is anything Primal that doesnt have to go by this Agenda to form a Colony with... as our life is going thru another Shakedown, since we dont have anything else better to do.....

 

[kdt26417]

Hello NWcolony,

You have had (an) interesting experience/s in life revolving around relationships and sexuality ... I am hearing you say that polyamory was widely accepted, for thousands of years, until about 30-50 years ago when somebody coined a word ("polyamory") for it, and circulated that word widely on the web. Ever since then, polyamory has been full of controversy as no one even agrees on a universal definition for it. At least I think that's what you're saying? Let me know whether I've hit close to the mark. And maybe you are also saying that gay, bi, and such, underwent a similar transformation ... that is, that they were widely accepted until someone assigned a word to them ... and ever since then, there has been a widespread public outcry against them.

You said you are looking for anything Primal that doesn't go by this Agenda to form a Colony with ... I take it you are looking for a polyamorous relationship without the word "polyamorous." If there's no word, there's nothing for people to condemn, right? I am poly myself, but outside of this forum I have to keep the word under wraps, as I risk familial blowback for me and my companions, there is even fear of loss of jobs. If we don't say the word, "poly," then I am free to talk about it. I would be happy to talk about it with you on this thread. Share your thoughts and questions about it, and I in turn will share mine. Have you read the book, Sex at Dawn? It really gets into the ancientness of this thing we call "poly." I hope to hear more from you.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[NWcolony]

this keeps logging me out before I can finish writing

yes, Poly was widely accepted for 1000s of years, but I dont know that it ever had a name until Modern Day started using Poly for describing it. We might need to do a little study on this. But I lived about a mile from the Temple of Aphrodite in Limmassol, Cyprus and its an Orgy Palace where people and groups worship Fertility and Abundance of the Crops. They sure didnt have any Shame there in public.

I lived surrounding,,, then in Hollywood in my Teens and witnessed the transition first hand. The people I knew that were into it, went into hiding when the lifestyle came out and public outcry occurred.

Yes, I have had a number of smaller group activities since and no one ever used the words or name. One was in Limmassol too. There were never any resentments, jealousy, or any kind of bitterness whatsoever...... we used the names a few times but they never connected so, we just werent part of this lifestyle and didnt really need an identity.

but also, there are a few significant things we had that other modern day connections do not..... the first one is quality Communications that builds TRUST, that is followed closely by ACCEPTANCE

I am of the firm belief that when this parting of ways occurred, that it was the splitting point of when Objective Reasoning became oppressed in favor of Subjective. Which is what Society is struggling with today.

Which is what we need to recover as a Race before we proceed any further. The current Political Dogma is preventing us from doing this, because it doesnt work with their Agenda for us to be individuals.

what I am seeing is Society keeps shifting the definitions of these Words to fit their agendas how ever they want them. The word Fuck has more definitions than any other word in the English language. While the Gay Scene has basically stolen and associated the word Homo as meaning Gay which is not. I think people are getting a little too sloppy with their misuse of words on this one .

You dont have to be Gay to have Sex with the same Gender and just because I do, doesnt mean that I fit this profile either.

Which is now where we get to the point of what Primal D and s actually are. Which is another name that has been inconveniently misused and obscured.

Which I also think alot of what Poly is missing it is own Glossary, which is responsible for some of the confusion.

I am not sure but didnt Poly start when people started describing the Mormons ? Which is what gave it the Secular overtone ?

You see, anytime there is a movement, there are 3 things you need to avoid. Secular, Militant, and Cult. Anytime you have any of these, the Community immediately attacks..... which is why I have a way around all of this.

most of the Native Tribes have Wild Customs and no one ever gives them any names

I am Blowing the Whistle on Modern Day Society because their House of Cards is toppling right now and I am not going to stand around and wait for them to tell me what to do next

 

[vinsanity0]

I understand an aversion to labels. People attempt to use them to define us or how we should behave, sort of like you are doing here. On the other hand, they can be useful to form community among people who didn't realize there are other people like them around.

Polyamory was coined in the 90's. That is well documented. Mormons practiced polygamy, which can be viewed as patriarchal. However, the person who coined the term "polyamory" also attempted to define it in very narrow terms, based on the lifestyle she wanted to live. It is now a more general term because there can be more general configurations.

Monogamy seems pretty easy to define, but even that has gone through changes. It used to mean a man and a woman. Now it means two people. Society changes.

Another example is BDSM. That was also coined in the 90's. It was a way to bring people of different, but related, kinks together under one umbrella term.

I was practicing elements of both polyamory and BDSM before those actual terms were invented. The labels themselves don't change anything, other than to help me find like-minded people.

 

[Magdlyn]

Click on "Remember me" when you sign in, or you'll time out while taking longer than 10 minutes to write a post.

 

[NWcolony]

trying to catch up

since I am new, my messages are behind,,,,,,

this is my #5,,,, does that mean I dont have to do the silly Image Verification anymore ? Do I get my code now ?

but yes this is what I am getting at is, I think there are a number of terms that need to be updated (filtered) and Poly seems out of date. There are too many using it with individualized definitions leaving too much guesswork.

also in the googles, it says this has gone on since the dawn of time 10,000 years if not longer without any of the constraints. They are guessing at the 90s but I know it was the 60s because I witnessed it.

not only was I with a scholar mentor that guided me. But with several encounters where we naturally assumed these roles before the names were used. However I do remember the Porn had all the Black Leather Biker Costumes and restraints. As well as Toys seems to be alot more common and there wasnt as much taboo paranoia as there is today. All of these are in the Historical Archives as well.

to speed things up, I am suggesting that things evolve into a more distinct, noble and ethical lifestyle and claim it as the Ancient Custom and Tradition that it is. While keeping a screening program in check, to filter the inferiors back into the boneyard,,,

 

[kdt26417]

Hi NWcolony,
So, from what you are saying, these are some of the things that we need:

• Discard the word/name "poly," thus eliminating resentments, jealousy, and bitterness.
• Quality Communications that builds Trust.
• Acceptance.
• Objective Reasoning (in place of Subjective).
• Clarify the words Homo and Gay.
• Primal D and s (correct the usage).
• A Glossary for Poly.
• Update/filter a number of terms.
• That things evolve into a more distinct, noble and ethical lifestyle and claim it as the Ancient Custom and Tradition that it is. While keeping a screening program in check, to filter the inferiors back into the boneyard.

Are there any points I have overlooked? Also, there is a vast confusion of definitions and glossaries for Poly, here are just a few:

• http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?p=15365
• http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?p=366104
• https://www.morethantwo.com/polyglossary.html

In your opinion, what is the correct definition of Poly?
Regards,
Kevin T.

 

[NWcolony]

Poly Definition as I see it

Do I get my 5 Post Merit Badge now ?

Well the name Poly is often used in Plastics, to denote a long chain molecule. But the best way I understand Poly is, lets say we have a collection of individuals and we decide by necessity (for lack of better term) that in order for us to live better lives, that is much more productive and effective. That if we live together in a group, and assign certain responsibilities. That our chances of achieving a goal or mission is much more likely.

so we sit down with the group, in whatever fashion we designate and start writing up our policies. Such as Food, Housing, Income, Transportation etc,,,, or of we have a Sex Program, or whatever else,,,,, we then have a set of guidelines to follow that everyone agrees on. If anyone doesnt like it they are allowed to go find something else and shut up...... and so we designate a certain day or how often we are going to have a meeting to update anything or if there is any grievances.....

so basically with Poly, we can make up our own set of rules as we go

incidentally, right now is perfect timing for this because of the Global Situation and uncertain future and all the other lifestyles are collapsing right now..... BDSM is lost and there arent any personal sites and everything is pretty much a Zombie Cartoon of Walking Dead rejects

on my ship, I will troubleshoot anything Secular, Militant or Cultish... because it draws adversities from the surrounding Community...... we will discuss this later, but there is an actual Theme or Profile that we keep that works with the surrounding Community instead of them taking sides against us, or attempting to alientate

 

[NWcolony]

more polish

- Discard the word/name "poly," thus eliminating resentments, jealousy, and bitterness.

I think discarding the name Poly with something updated and more applicable that doesnt have to many confusing Tangents.

- Resentments, bitterness, possessiveness and jealousy need a section of their own here. In earlier years, before Internet, this wasnt such an issue where Trust and Communications come into play, but never the less need to be discussed. I just remember that we termed it Jealousy and Possessiveness at the time and it wasnt as much of an issue as it is today. In one case we were approached by a neighbors consented wife and she kept asking us and was concerned, until we had to sit down and discuss it with her to help her feel comfortable. This particular woman was bold and upfront and just jumped right in the saddle. She let us know immediately what was happening and asked questions and she was just a definite angel and perfect companion. I cant think of the slightest uneasiness. She is the only woman that hasnt taken me to meet her mother.

- Quality Communications that builds Trust. - in each others cases. I or we already knew this person for some time so Trust and Communications were commensurate and established. Modern Day Society doesnt use this or go by this, but we do. This isnt for swingers. We have ethics and honor. Typically when people have difficulty discussing certain issues it indicates internal issues that need monitored. If they are hiding something its for a reason. Which is the reason we are having Sex like this by dropping our barriers, to learn how to eliminate them. Barriers being placed on us by society. With sex it is harmless to drop them so we can learn how to detect and eliminate other problem areas.... ethics is a valuable tool and building block for this.

- Acceptance - is close behind. With the Communications we always give each other praises and affirmations that is not only verbal, but uses eye contact, facial expressions and body language etc.. a Triad on its own accord. For en example I ant to try something with this new girl that I am nervous about and I am afraid she is going to slap my face and cuss me. But instead she looks me in the eye and grins at me, and wants more. I have just been Accepted and there is an obvious reaction....... This is when its time to Celebrate, not Celebate !

- Objective Reasoning (in place of Subjective) - this takes some study and needs a Room/ Study Hall just like this one. This is no simple overnight task..... but it must be present in any functional group somewhere for progress. We use Objective Reasoning to evaluate Factual Evidence and examining Options, before making a decision. Instead of jumping blindly into something just because of the Blind Faith of what our Peers or Status Quo might be.

- Clarify the words Homo and Gay. - yes and some new names would help. Will Durant would be perfect, and with Sub vs Obj too. This needs History Lesson and Workshop.

- A Glossary for Poly - for the new name we are giving it. Poly is for Plastics, and Elastomer is for Rubber,,,, so it definitely needs an Energizing name (and Theme =:->). Personally I have been thinking about Realist Society for a number of different reasons to be explained as we go. A Real Time Message Board would really work well here. I use Discord, because I can go back and edit things later and add Pics and stuff lots easier.

- a whole new lifestyle can be generated over this and we need to use a few working models. I mean its almost Spiritual as far as Ancient Customs go....... dont worry I have a plan that will escape the Secular issue with finesse.

- first of all the Ancient Customs I am referring to are very similar for 10,000 years at least. But what happened is, they have become derailed (see at bottom) and this is all something that is already built inside us. Its just something we need to recognize long enough to reactivate it. So its not like we are making up anything new. Its already here. Subjective Reason is 2D that depends on hearsay and Peers, that is often irrational and Aggressive. Objective Reason is 3D and is able to process Fact, which is Assertive and uses Compassion and Empathy.

the Analogy weve all been waiting for,,, is that Society felt that it was time to take the reins and we needed them to tell us how to manage our lives. So to get our attention they show us this Pinata, hanging from a Tree by a Rope. So they give us a Blindfold and a Club and tell us to start swinging and as soon as we hit the big nasty Bag of Candy. That all the answers to all of problems of the World will come pouring out of the Sky on us, as soon as we hit it !

OK SO PUT YOUR MASK ON AND START SWINGING !

so as soon as we start swinging they pull the BAG out of our Reach and with our Arms up on the Air and keeping us busy, swinging at nothing. (like talking to Jim Carrey on TV)

They reach in to our Pockets and start grabbing everything they can find !

this Government and Society has been Sanctioning Fraud for over 50 years from countless organizations and State Agencies. 911 is just one small example....

Now we are just letting them know that we know how to take the Hood off now

 

[Magdlyn]

Discard the word/name "poly," thus eliminating resentments, jealousy, and bitterness.

Poly just means many.

I think we should discard the name poly for something updated and more applicable, that doesn't have too many confusing tangents.

Resentments, bitterness, possessiveness and jealousy need a section of their own here. In earlier years, before the internet, this wasn't such an issue, where trust and communications come into play, but nevertheless it needs to be discussed.

I just remember that we...

Who is "we"? You have a community of people who were not into monogamy?
Back in the 1960s or '70s? Are you part of the group that circled around Morning Glory and Oberon Zell-Ravenheart?

... termed it jealousy and possessiveness at the time, and it wasn't as much of an issue as it is today.

In one case, we were approached by a neighbor's consented wife...

You mean a man, her husband, gave her consent to talk to the sexy hippies across the street?

... and she kept asking us and was concerned...

Asking and being concerned about what?

... until we had to sit down and discuss it with her, to help her feel comfortable. This particular woman was bold and upfront, and just jumped right into the saddle. She let us know immediately what was happening, and asked questions...

The saddle of what was happening with her?

... and she was just a definite angel and perfect companion. I can't think of the slightest uneasiness.

So she immediately joined your "poly" community? What happened to her husband?

She is the only woman that hasn't taken me to meet her mother.

And that was a good thing? How does that tie in to being a perfect angel?

Quality communications that build trust.

I/we already had already known this person for some time...

The angel?

... so trust and communications were commensurate and established. Modern day society doesn't use this, or go by this, but we do. This isn't for swingers. We have ethics and honor. Typically, when people have difficulty discussing certain issues, it indicates internal issues that need to be monitored. If they are hiding something, it's for a reason.

This is the reason we are having sex like this, by dropping our barriers, to learn how to eliminate them. Barriers are being placed on us by society. With sex, it is harmless to drop them, so we can learn how to detect and eliminate other problem areas. Ethics are a valuable tool and are a building block for this.

Acceptance is close behind. With communication, we always give each other praises and affirmations that are not only verbal, but use eye contact, facial expressions and body language etc. ... a triad of its own accord.

For an example, I wanted to try something with this new girl, that I was nervous about, and I was afraid that she was going to slap my face and cuss me. But instead, she looked me in the eye and grinned at me, and wanted more. I have just been accepted and there was an obvious reaction. This is when its time to celebrate, not be celibate!

Objective reasoning (in place of subjective)- This takes some study and needs a room/study hall, just like this one. This is no simple overnight task. It must be present in any functional group somewhere, for progress to be made. We use objective reasoning to evaluate factual evidence and examine options, before making a decision. Instead of jumping blindly into something just because of blind faith in what our peers or status quo might be.

Clarify the words homo and gay- Some new names would help. Will Durant would be perfect, and subject vs object too. This needs a history lesson and workshop.

A glossary for poly - For the new name we are giving it. Poly is for plastics, and elastomer is for rubber. So it definitely needs an energizing name (and theme =:->). Personally, I have been thinking about Realist Society for a number of different reasons, to be explained as we go. A real time message board would really work well here. I use Discord, because I can go back and edit things later, and add pics and stuff lots easier.

A whole new lifestyle can be generated over this, and we need to use a few working models. I mean, its almost spiritual, as far as ancient customs go. Don't worry, I have a plan that will escape the secular issue with finesse.

First of all, the ancient customs I am referring to have been very similar, for 10,000 years, at least. But what happened is, they have become derailed (see at bottom) and this is all something that is already built inside us. It's just something we need to recognize long enough to reactivate it. So it's not like we are making up anything new. It's already here. Subjective reason is 2D, and depends on hearsay and peers, is often irrational and aggressive. Objective reason is 3D and is able to process fact, which is assertive and uses compassion and empathy.

The analogy we've all been waiting for, is that society felt that it was time to take the reins, and we needed them to tell us how to manage our lives. So to get our attention, they show us this pinata, hanging from a tree by a rope. So they give us a blindfold and a club and tell us to start swinging, and as soon as we hit the big nasty bag of candy, all the answers to all of problems of the world will come pouring out of the sky onto us!

OK, SO PUT YOUR MASK ON, AND START SWINGING!

So, as soon as we start swinging they pull the bag out of our reach, with our arms up on the air and keeping us busy, swinging at nothing (like talking to Jim Carrey on TV), they reach into our pockets and start grabbing everything they can find.

This government and society has been sanctioning fraud for over 50 years, from countless organizations and state agencies. 9/11 is just one small example.

We are just letting them know that we know how to take the hood off now.

So, you're an alien?

 

[kdt26417]

Hi NWC,

From what you're saying, it sounds like most of us have become conditioned, over the last fifty years, to let society dictate to us how we are to live our lives ... in hopes that the "candy" (enlightenment) will drop from the sky. In the meantime, society is "picking our pockets" (robbing us of whatever has value). To counteract this, we need to return to the Ancient Customs of a Primal time, giving Poly a better name (e.g., Realist Society). In Realist Society, we would live together in a group, and assign certain responsibilities. So we sit down with the group, in whatever fashion we designate, and start writing up our policies. Such as Food, Housing, Income, Transportation, etc., or of we have a Sex Program, or whatever else ... we then have a set of guidelines to follow that everyone agrees on. If anyone doesn't like it, they are allowed to go find something else and shut up ... and so we designate a certain day or how often we are going to have a meeting to update anything or if there is any grievances.

And for a Glossary, we would use a Real Time Message Board, such as Discord. This is just a summary, by me, of your key points as far as I understand them. You can easily enough correct me on anything I have misunderstood, and add more explanation as appropriate.

Also I may have questions for you. The first of which is, what is your opinion on this forum (Polyamory.com)? Is it useful, and would you keep it in an ideal Realist Society? or would Discord replace it? Another question I have is, how many people would there be in each group? Are you saying the whole world would make up one group, or would we be divided into smaller groups? Would we abolish all governments as currently constituted, or would the groups exist separate to, and subject to, the current laws of any one country? or would each group just wait for its government to die a natural death, to be replaced by the laws, bylaws, and assigned responsibilities of each individual group? This forum has members from all over the world. Would we form a virtual group via Discord? Do we need to disband this forum? The forum is, after all, a subset of society.

Just some thoughts,
Kevin T.