When to say enough is enough - metamour (or ex-metamour?)

colibri

New member
Hello.

I have been in a relationship with C for 9 years. I have been living with C and his wife P for about 8 years. We do not adhere to any sort of hierarchy. We all have other relationships (if that is important). Up until mid-last year, things have been pretty harmonious.

In August 2019, things became very difficult. C's mother had been sick for a while and passed away. P had a break up within the same day. P began demonstrating her emotions by stomping, slamming doors. I asked her to please not do that as it leaves me feeling really anxious for a while. Her behavior continued. Rather than talking about the issues that are bothering her, she bottles them up and explodes. After a month or so, she apologized for her behavior, and I was so happy. I felt proud that we could all move past the difficult time.

However, outbursts continued for various, scattered reasons. When it is pointed out that how she is communicating is unacceptable, she attempts to manipulate the situation so that she has reason for behaving the way she has. She has fabricated some incidences (like that I chased her out of the house.. which did not happen. At all. Two other people were present to establish this). Claims her needs aren't being listened to (after communicating them in ways that aren't considerate or appropriate at all). Has stated that P is emotionally abusive and neglectful (even after the death of his mother, she wanted him to pick up items from her ex's house and told him he was not being there for her emotionally). She went to therapy a couple of times.

C and P have not been on good terms for a while because of her behavior. The home environment was very heavy and tense. C and P made a time to talk. During that discussion, she got angry and left. Afterwards, P explained to her that we aren't comfortable with her coming back to live with us yet. This was a week or two before Thanksgiving. She also had another relationship of 8 years that dissolved - the other partner stating the similar reasoning. That her behavior is unfair and manipulative.

I have asked her not to contact me right now because interacting with her is not good for me. I have lost weight, got my prescription back for Ativan, and feel overwhelmed and like I am dropping the ball in other areas of my life. When I hear from her, I become physically ill - like throwing up. She contacted me about a week ago and ended up in her same reactive spirals where she says mean and untrue things and then backpedals by saying (paraphrasing) "we all have done things wrong, we have to do the hard work to rebuild". It is very difficult for me to see that happening when she does not see how horrible she is being.

Note: when she sends texts, I have only responded a handful of times because they turn into toxic, cyclical, unproductive conversations. I want her to see how she treats people. How reactive she is. I am not sure that she is actually thinking when she responds. I responded to this last text, and I encouraged her to re-read our messages to refresh herself on what the underlying issues are - hoping maybe she will see the inconsistencies, etc.

P and C have been together for a while, and C wants to make one last effort to resolve things with P and eventually have her come back to live with us.

It is becoming increasing difficult for me to be actively supportive. I am trying to hold out and not cut all ties with her in the event that maybe the P we know is actually still there and isn't this person. But things will never be the same. I do not want to be friends with her again. I am not even sure if we can be housemates. I have talked to C about this, and he is very understanding and reassures me that she will not be coming back unless there is an awakening/some realization on her part. He stated if she wants to come back before then, she can buy out his part of the house, and we will find another place to live. Both of these options stress me out.

I feel like I am in limbo waiting to see if C and P can work things out. It's a really hard position to be in especially when she is still contacting me and not in a nice way (she hasn't contacted me a lot - but when she does, I get this feeling of dread, and it's hard to shake). I am trying to be comfortable with not knowing, but that is difficult too.

I want to be there for C, but it's hard for me to see this working out the way we both hope it does. When I was upset once, I said I never wanted to live with her again. I regretted saying it - I could tell the hopelessness of the statement made C almost shatter.

When do you say enough is enough? Should I cut ties for my own sake - block her on everything? Do I just continue to wait? How can I be more patient and not hurt so much? I hate this mentality I keep having - I keep thinking how unfair it is that we are pretty much waiting for her to realize how bad she has treated everyone. Is the old P still there? Does it matter if the old P is still there?

I intend on seeing a therapist regarding this. But I also wanted advice from the community or to hear about similar situations. Thanks, everyone. I know this is super long. I appreciate your time.
 
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It strikes me that you two have lived together for so many years and it's only last summer that a rather sudden change appeared. Yet you say absolutely nothing about the reasons for this change.

Is this her having other issues in life, therefore no longer being able to put up a mask and behave "appropriately"?
Is this a new thing in the relationship?
Is this issues coming up after such a long time, basically a dragged out breakup, because of things that were present all along?
Is this a mental illness?

People usually don't change all of the sudden (although, sometimes they do, when a part of the which has been repressed for a long time surfaces). It's hard to say anything appropriate about your situation without knowing what change happened there.
 
It strikes me that you two have lived together for so many years and it's only last summer that a rather sudden change appeared. Yet you say absolutely nothing about the reasons for this change.

Is this her having other issues in life, therefore no longer being able to put up a mask and behave "appropriately"?
Is this a new thing in the relationship?
Is this issues coming up after such a long time, basically a dragged out breakup, because of things that were present all along?
Is this a mental illness?

People usually don't change all of the sudden (although, sometimes they do, when a part of the which has been repressed for a long time surfaces). It's hard to say anything appropriate about your situation without knowing what change happened there.

It seems that I may have deleted part of this - in August, C's mom passed away, and P had a break up. I edited it to add those details - sorry about that.
 
Please also give nicknames to the people involved to improve readability - a guideline of this forum. I'll choose some, I'll be happy to change those if you do. (If we manage, the edit window is just 12 hours I think.)

What I hear is:
- Both your partner (Colin) and your metamour (Penny) went through a rough time last autumn. This resulted in relationship problems (both of them feeling unsupported?), Penny acting out and moving out.
- Because of anxiety problems, you are very sensitive to people acting out
- You have lost trust in Penny. In fact, you think her behavior is horrible. You no longer want to be friends with her.
- Direct communication with Penny is stressful for you at this time. You asked her not to contact you.
- You are also stressed because of other stuff in your life.
- Colin wants to reconcile with Penny, sees a possibility of her moving back in if she can admit to her errors and do better. This gives you anxiety.
- Penny owns a part of the house you are living in. Therefore if she wants to claim her property, you may have to move. This also gives you anxiety.
- You don't feel in control of your life, because the outcome depends on Colin and Penny reconciling or not.

I see three people who are not yet out of a crisis.

I think it's possible that your metamour needs help as much as you do. I think you could be assertive with your boundaries while also striving to view her in a more compassionate light. After all, it's a person you lived with for 8 years and "things have been pretty harmonious". She may have lost her shit now, doesn't mean these 8 years are void. However, you are not in a place to provide any kind of help to her right now. You are too close to the situation, her problem are affecting you directly. Could this idea of her also needing help and support (just not from you) help reframe your thoughts?

Now, think about what you need.
  • How you need to handle communication with Penny? You have expressed a wish to cut communication and even block her. However (I imagine) you are not quite sure how this would play out if Colin and Penny eventually reconcile. Would a temporary measure help? I.e. cutting communication for x months, then talking to Colin about how things have shifted and reevaluating? Something else?
  • What communication agreements do you need to make with Colin? What details do you want to hear about her? How much support can you give?
  • How can you get more support with your own anxiety treatment? You mentioned medication, do you also get therapy? Have you got good friends to confide in? Alone time? How about your basics (sleep, nutrition, exercise)?
  • This other stuff in your life you are dropping the ball on, can you get help with any of this?
  • What support does Colin get? Are you his primary support person after his mom dying and his wife leaving? What measures can both of you take so that he gets the support he needs and you are not overwhelmed?
  • You seem sure you don't want to live with Penny ever again. Again, is it possible to make it a temporary decision and reevaluate later? If not, make it a hard boundary, and think about your own plan B. A boundary is about what you do, not for other people to follow - so you need to decide what you will do if Colin and Penny want to live together and communicate that decision to Colin. Will you move out? break up with him? Something else?
  • The possibility of Penny moving back and you having to move out also stresses you. However, this is hypothetical. It isn't happening yet. And if it does happen - can you trust yourself to handle it somehow? It might be also worth to think about it: Is there another possibility, like you buying her part of the house, instead of her buying his?

Don't be ashamed of needing what you need. This only adds up to your stress. In a considerate and straightforward way, do set boundaries.
 
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It reads like her break up really impacted her to the point that she is nearly unrecognisable.

Is she able to keep going to therapy?

Any possibility there is a medical reason for her behaviour change?

I'd say block her but hold space for the old Penny to reemerge. Simply make it clear that until she's regained her equilibrium, you're out of contact.
 
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It is very difficult for me to see that happening when she does not see how horrible she is being.

It sounds rough with her mother-in-law passing away and her two break ups so close together. But it also seems sudden if you all got on for years.

Why this personality change? Had she become ill? Had a mini stroke? Anything like that which could explain this sudden change? Could anosognosia be part of it? Only a doc could do an actual dx for her but it makes me wonder...

My dad has anosognosia and various other things. You mentioning her inability to see how horrible she is being made me think of it. Dad is like that.

I feel like I am in limbo waiting to see if C and P can work things out. It's a really hard position to be in especially when she is still contacting me and not in a nice way (she hasn't contacted me a lot - but when she does, I get this feeling of dread, and it's hard to shake). I am trying to be comfortable with not knowing, but that is difficult too.

It's ok to go low contact or no contact if you need to while she gets it together.

https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/2015/12/3/no-contact

I want to be there for C, but it's hard for me to see this working out the way we both hope it does. When I was upset once, I said I never wanted to live with her again. I regretted saying it - I could tell the hopelessness of the statement made C almost shatter.

Well, there is nothing wrong with each of you having your own homes. If you prefer that for this next chapter or life, it's ok to want that. If it is more that right now you need to pick a different person to vent with, pick someone other than him. One could comfort in, and kvetch out. He too in inside the system, so don't kvetch at him.

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-...-oe-0407-silk-ring-theory-20130407-story.html

When do you say enough is enough? Should I cut ties for my own sake - block her on everything? Do I just continue to wait? How can I be more patient and not hurt so much? I hate this mentality I keep having - I keep thinking how unfair it is that we are pretty much waiting for her to realize how bad she has treated everyone. Is the old P still there? Does it matter if the old P is still there?

Dude, if I waited for that I would be waiting forever.

My father will never be able to see that he is ill because part of his dx includes anosognosia -- the inability to see that he is indeed ill.

https://www.nami.org/learn-more/mental-health-conditions/related-conditions/anosognosia

Mom and I had to make plans for him without him weighing in.

You don't have to wait for her to figure your stuff out. You could just get on with your own life. And you decide whether or not that includes making space for a potentially ill metamour or not.

That's gonna happen in long term poly relationships – the same sorts of things long term monogamous couples face with aging and illness.

I intend on seeing a therapist regarding this. But I also wanted advice from the community or to hear about similar situations.

I think that's a good plan. Talk to the therapist.

And take a step back. If Colin is going to enter a chapter of life where he has to do some caregiver stuff for an ailing Penny...what's that gonna look like and how is that going to affect your relationship with them?

If it does turn out that Penny has some sort of illness or disorder that explains some of this behavior lately... that doesn't mean she gets a free pass to be a jerk and run right over people. You all still have to maintain healthy boundaries. But with a patient person, you might have to adjust your expectations and perhaps exercise some extra patience.

So take a step back to gather yourself together if you need to, talk to therapist, do some soul searching.

Galagirl
 
Hello colibri,

I get the impression that you are already at your wit's end. Like you need to cease contact with P (C's wife), block her and stop responding to her, and absolutely do not share a home again with her in the future. I guess in theory it's possible she could have an epiphany and really start to improve, but I wouldn't count on it. And I think you are done with her no matter what. The damage she has done is irreparable. Maybe she can mend things with C; I doubt she can mend things with you.

It seems to me that you're a considerate person, you're always thinking about other people's needs and welfare. I think that in this situation (with P), you should think more about your own needs and welfare. What do you need in order to be healthy, and thrive? I wonder if it could helpful to move into a place of your own, a studio apartment if need be. Something so that you are removed from the drama churning between C and P. That drama is toxic. If you had your own place, you could still have C over, but then he could go home to P, if that's what he wants to do. You could have a safe space away from P, and you could decide if and when you wanted to be around her. You wouldn't have to wonder and worry about whether C was going to reconcile with P, and whether you were going to have to endure her awful behavior again. You deserve to be free from that worry.

Don't be beholden to C's pending choices, and definitely don't be beholden to anything that P does. Seek some independence, it doesn't have to be 100% independence, but shoot for more independence than what you now have. As it now stands, you are at C and P's mercy, and that's not a good place to be. I hope P gets the help she needs, of course, but that is not your responsibility. P might not do the reflecting she needs to do until she hits bottom. And I don't know if C can see that right now.

Hang in there; we'll try to help.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
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