Worth fighting for

salioSola

New member
I, like many of you, I suspect, have managed to work myself into a very complicated situation. I have no community, as I've only been at this a short time and I live in the midwest, so I'm desperate for a bit of perpective.

I'm 33, and I identified as straight until I was 32. I have been married to my husband, Solon, for almost three years, we've been together for almost 10. We have a wonderful relationship, we are very open and honest with each other, we are great life partners, and we have a lot of fun together. The only part that we have struggled with was sex. I've always been skittish and shy about it. I've had good periods, but it was never something I enjoyed much. It's important to him, but he stuck with me, even through a years-long dry spell.

I met Rose shortly after I had first met Solon. They had dated in high school. She and I immediately hit it off and have been friends ever since. Some of those year were turbulent, but we became close, run a business together, and spend a lot of our time together. Rose was married to Zach, a person I had always had trouble with but dealt with for her friendship.

A year and a half ago, Rose and I realized that we were attracted to each other. This was less of a shock for her, as she as previously identified as bi, but a big change for me. Solon urged me to explore, and while I, who was raised in a conservative religious family, initially rejected that, my curiosity got the better of me. Zach was harder to get on board, but eventually he did and, Rose and I embarked on what we naively thought would be a physical extension of our friendship. We fell very deeply in love, and I also learned that I am not "not a very sexual person." I am queer.

To abbreviate some of this, the initial few months were hard. After about six months, Zach and Rose decided to get divorced. Our relationship did not help the situation, but it was not the cause of their divorce. They had always had a turbulent relationship. Rose and I stayed together, now in a V with Solon.

Solon had initially hoped that we would become a triad. I did not blame him, I had entertained the thought, but Rose made it clear she was not interested. This was for many reasons, but she also at this point decided that she was not particularly interested in men, and especially not interested in being "annexed" into our marriage. Once Solon finally internalized that, things got very rocky with he and I. We struggled with our poor sex life, with his need for primary status, and came very close to divorce. Through counseling, we were able to work it out, and we are on solid ground now.

Rose and I are struggling more than ever. It's been a year and a half, and we still care about each other very much, but Poly wasn't a destination for us, it's more of a circumstance in our lives.

She struggles very much with closeting. My parents and immediate family know, and they are not supportive. They tend to just act like it's not happening. They've only known for a few months, so I am trying to be patient, but my large extended family does not know, and neither do my professional contacts, so I am still semi-closeted. In addition to the stigma around poly, most people do not know that I am queer, so it's been a tough process for me. Most of our close friends know, and even a lot of extended friends. I have lost a few, but most are supportive.

Rose has come to a point in her life where she doesn't want to be in situations where she has to be in the closet. This is hard for me. I understand that she wants to be in a normal relationship, and not feel hidden, but I am trying to do things as fast as I can, and I feel a lot of pressure. I don't feel comfortable leading with being poly, I prefer to come out more gradually. We also struggle with scheduling, with how much time we have together (I am with her three nights a week, Solon four, but I see her more than that), and feeling "less than" because Solon and I are married and live together. It's a lot to contend with. I know that she would not choose poly. She's trying to make it work with me, trying to see if we can make it work. She is not currently dating, because things have been so unstable, but I am open to her doing so, though very nervous.

I am concerned about how my life can fit together. Solon and I are not looking to divorce. He and I have talked about his dating, but he has chosen not to at this point. I love having Rose in my life. For a while, just after things were very rocky with Solon and I, we talked about working toward communal living. Rose is pretty resistant to all of that right now, and their once very close friendship has grown distant. I do not want to be in a V with partners who don't have a friendship. I don't expect them to be lovers, or even best friends, but right now there seems to be resentment and little trust. I know that it's really not my choice at all, except to appeal to them or try to make it work on my end and hope things work out.

I just feel like have no direction in my life, I don't know where we are all going, and everything feels very separate right now. I feel like a child of divorce, always running to one or the other and trying to comfort partners and put out fires, and I know I can't live like this forever. I need stability.

Rose and I are fighting so often. We are both hurt and scared. We love each other very much. To look at it from the outside, I feel like I sound insane, or naive, or selfish. I would love to hear from people who have dealt with similar situations. I'm happy to answer questions. I am open to criticism, though hopefully you can be kind about it.

I love both of my partners completely. Solon is my partner, my rock. He's dependable and steadfast. He is my family. Rose is a part of me, she lights me up. She leads me on adventures, shows me life through a beautiful, wondrous lens. She is my spirit.

Any advice you can share will be beyond appreciated.

Ella
 
Hello Ella,

I don't have advice but I do have support. I'm sorry that your family is less than supportive. As a Bi woman with a deeply religious upbringing, I understand how family can make or break confidence and self-acceptance. In a decade or two this will be different for everyone, but for now I hope that you can find the support you need.

I think you are trying very hard to keep from hurting everyone and Rose's divorce with Zach might be helping you feel that there is an even more pressing timeline than there really is. Since you are already in counseling (I assume the counselor knows all of this), it doesn't appear that the deadline to "fix things" is looming. I think you are on the right track!

That being said, I noticed that you feel directly responsible for the awkward situation. This is not your fault! You are queer and there's nothing wrong with that. You are responsible to help those you love and you're already doing that! So smile and give yourself a minute to relax and enjoy a few moments to yourself. Coffee and baths do the trick for me but whatever does the "relax thing" for you is something you should give yourself permission to do!

Good luck and I hope the stress is alleviated soon!
 
The feelings in your poly group now are nearly as if I read about us, different genders. Good luck...
 
Solon is my partner, my rock. He's dependable and steadfast. He is my family. Rose is a part of me, she lights me up. She leads me on adventures, shows me life through a beautiful, wondrous lens. She is my spirit.

Hi Ella,

You're very focused on trying to be good for everyone around you and "poly" seems to be a way you've all found to do this, but just judging by what you've written, nobody in your group is really happy or reaching for "poly." It sounds to me like you and Rose are lesbians. She became clear about that and you, less so. I'm not sure about the difference in your mind between "queer" and "lesbian" but I imagine that you're identifying as "queer" so that you can find a way to embrace the love you feel for your husband while vastly preferring the sexual intimacy of a woman.

I'm in a 17 year marriage that sounds much like yours. My husband (has been) my emotional bedrock, but the sex was never there for me - present but certainly not what I knew sex could be. Only you and Solon can decide whether a limited-sex marriage is a marriage worth fighting for, as you say. Many good people decide to remain with marriage partners with whom sex has faded or never was, agreeing to find others with whom they can have nice sexual relationships. This is quietly done everywhere, even in the Midwest! But we live in an age when people also have the economic and social choice to separate - and many do because of this. There are many women like you who have nice marriages with men, but along the way discover that they are sexually and romantically into women. That's OK! I imagine that your arguments with and Rose are increasing because you both know in your hearts that you each have a vast preference for women.

What do you want, irrespective of the possible responses of others, including your husband?
 
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I am sorry you struggle.

In case it helps you see it as a bullet list:

SOLON WANTS
  • To be acknowledged as "primary partner"
  • To not date others right now

ROSE WANTS

  • Wants to be in a "normal" relationship
    • To be "out." Doesn't want to be "hidden"
    • Does not want polyamory. Is putting up with it to be with you right now
    • To not feel "less than" because you and Solon are married
  • To have more time on the schedule together (She has 3 nights, Solon has 4)
  • To not date others right now
  • To be free of fighting with you

YOU WANT

  • To feel less pressure around coming out
    • To come "out" gradually
  • To not be in a V with partners who don't have a friendship (do not have this right now)
  • Stability.
    • To be free of having to "put out fires" with one partner or the other
    • To be free of fighting with Rose

I think breaking up with both partners would solve all of these things. I guess you are trying to find a solution other than that though.

Thing is... if you are sitting on the fence? Time has a way of solving it for you -- either you, Solon or Rose will get fed up with it and it will come to a head. Like a pressure cooker.
Maybe with tempers flaring.

I think it might be better to address it head on, hopefully with some grace, so you can part ways in peace. Steam is already escaping out the cracks. You could change your behavior. Instead of running around putting out all these fires? You could take the pot off the burner entirely and take the lid off. Let things cool way down.

And do break ups gracefully and leave the door open to maybe getting back together with one or the other when people are NOT also healing from other things. Rather than part ways ugly in a temper flare up and burn bridges.

  • Solon is healing from his idea of a triad not coming to pass. Whether they were realistic hopes or not, he needs time to get over a perceived "rejection." He wants to be in a relationship model where he is primary. He needs time.

  • Rose is healing from her divorce from Zach. She also doesn't want to feel or be "annexed" into you+ Solon marriage. She needs time.

  • You just realized you are queer. It isn't that you are "not sexual." It's that you aren't into men that way. You need time to come to terms with that, and decide if continuing to be married to Solon as a queer woman is what you really want or not.

So I think taking a break could be good for all of you. Then all of you get to work out the stuff on each of your plates without the pressure cooker so the load can get lighter.

I wonder if it could be best to break up with both right now so everyone has that time and space? And while you are taking that time? Consider filing for divorce from Solon not because things are bad, but because you two may not be long haul compatible as spouses. Maybe friends is a better fit? I get that you want stability right now and the upheaval of a divorce is not fun at this moment. But that's a reason to postpone filing a divorce. Not a reason to stay married for the rest of your life.

Solon could have a different wife who is into him that way sexually, who is willing to make him her "primary" either in a mono-ship or a polyship. If that wife is not you, I think the decent thing to do is to vacate the position and be friends with Solon instead. You too could eventually have a wife. (Not necessarily Rose) that you are really into that way. Don't you each deserve that if you both want marriage? To have marriage with spouses you REALLY click with?

Maybe live on your own for a while and do all your coming out as queer to friends and family as a single, queer person? Lighten that load.

Then see if Rose wants to date later on in a new relationship. No poly, no Zach, no Solon. Just you two.

I just feel like have no direction in my life, I don't know where we are all going, and everything feels very separate right now.

The only way I know to solve that feeling when everything feels hard is to be decisive and PICK your hard. Make choices so you get moving along toward something. It might not be the ultimate destination, but there's movement, and you start sorting some of the stuff out. Better than staying stagnant in a situation you already know you don't like.

If what you are doing/not doing is ADDING to the problems? Start looking where you can reduce or TAKE AWAY from the load.

It may feel hard to do, but the actions are pretty simple. You are either adding or taking away.

Galagirl
 
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North pheasant

Hello all,

I wanted to thank you so much for reading and responding. Like I said, I have almost no community at all when it comes to poly, so it means a lot to me to hear from you. I apologize for how long it took for me to respond. Sometimes, because I am not used to outside opinions that I consider educated, hearing about the relationship through that lens feels like a lot. Like looking into a mirror for the first time or something.

I want to respond to the responses individually, and I'm waiting for a meeting right now, but I wanted to start with the first two.

SheBLittleButFierce: This is so much of what my therapist tells me, and hearing it from another person was really, really validating. I can't thank you enough. I always am trying to push myself so hard to just have it all figured out, and I realize that that's generally impossible in the best of circumstances, much less a complex one like this.

I do think you're right about the timeline. Rose is just so much further down the path than I am. She knew she was queer in her teens, she just didn't act on it, thought she didn't need to. The Zach situation was so hard. It was like a psychological minefield while he was around, it was walking on eggshells all the time. When they got divorced, I think there was this sense in ALL of us, Solon, Zack, Rose, and myself, that like, OKAY, Rose is single now, you can be single now and you guys can go rent a UHaul! For a long time, that's really why I thought it was going to be too.

Solon and I went through our really rough patch. We even agreed to get divorced and he said he wanted to file the papers, and at that point I just flipped and couldn't go through with it. We've been through a lot of therapy, we've both made a lot of compromises, and there is so much good in that relationship. I couldn't just cast it away.

The family bit, as you mentioned, is also incredibly hard. Even though no one is really confronting me now, as they were in the past, they still want to spend lots of time with me, and that's hard. I know they are trying to be close to me, but when I am around them, and they act the way they do, which is to say, that I'm the person they knew before and they don't have to acknowledge this new one, it's pretty crushing. I know they need time. It's just dealing with that in the meantime.

I didn't intend to ramble this much. But thank you. That was really helpful advice, and it made me feel so much less alone.

Tinwen: Also, thank you. Again, community is so important right now, and just a kind word like this means a lot. Thank you so much.

I'll get to the other ASAP!

Ella
 
Hi Ella,

I am honestly stumped as to what to advise, as I assume you don't want to break up with either of your partners. It seems to me that you are already doing everything you can to help the situation. If that's the case, then the only element you can add to the equation is time. You can continue fighting for both relationships and hope that as time goes on, things will get easier. Sort of the opposite of the pressure cooker scenario. I don't know which scenario to predict for your future. My perception is that it could go either way.

I suppose the two biggest problems are, the general strain between Rose and Solon, and the pressure Rose is applying to try to get you to completely exit the closet. Well, and the fact that Rose seems to want more of a relationship with you than you can give, as long as you are married to Solon. These problems may or may not recede given time and effort. GalaGirl may be right in saying that the only (new) solution would be to hit the reset button on everything, so to speak. But I'm assuming that's a button you'd rather not hit.

Basically, all I can contribute is my moral support. I know you are trying to do the best you can, and it is very difficult. I hope you will keep us updated here as your situation evolves. Who knows, we might be able to think of new advice later on.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Hi Karen,

Thanks for your response. I've been having to sort of psych myself up to read and respond to them. Rose has a poly friend. She met her online, through an old job, they've never met in person. The friend and I have exchanged a couple of emails, and she sent me this massive tome of a thing, full of advice that I think is probably important and needs to be discussed. I can't really bear to open it. I feel like it's drinking from the holy grail or something. That's ridiculous, and a long-winded way of telling you I am sorry this took so long.

You're right, poly wasn't a destination for us, it was a solution. You're also right, I really do tend toward women, especially sexually, and in a lot of ways romantically as well.

I think that Rose has become really clear on her sexuality. I think that she also has had a lot more time to form her thoughts on it, as she'd known this about herself since she was a teen. I also feel like I've become pretty clear on where I stand, too. I identify with lesbian, but I still have a romantic and sexual relationship with a man. I realize that would make me Bi. Bi doesn't feel right. What I probably am is a lesbian-identified bisexual, but people don't get that, and labels are for other people, really. So, I say queer. It isn't a cop-out, or I'm not trying to make it one, anyway. It's just the closest I can get and feel right.

You're right, negotiating my feelings for my husband is really complicated. The sex is not great, and it never has been. This has been a struggle for him. He's comfortable with it right now and it may not always be this way. It does sound a lot like where you are... though right now the sexual part is very difficult for me. One thing that I would like to clarify, though: it's not JUST my marriage that I'm fighting for. It's the loving relationship I have with Rose. It's all worth fighting for. I'm fighting for both. Every minute, it sometimes seems.

I think that it's quite possible that this is what my marriage could look like from here on out... having a limited sex marriage with and a sexual relationship. With Rose, it's more than that, obviously... I'm basically in what feels functionally to me like a co-primary arrangement, though she would disagree, due to the legal and property elements of my marriage, with is fair.
We argue for so many reasons. She's so frustrated with not feeling equal. She wants to feel recognized, like this relationship is as public and accepted as my marriage. She wants it all now. I want to give it to her. But I can't without ending my marriage, and I love Solon. He is a wonderful partner and suited to me in so many ways.

What I want is really blurry now. When things got very rough with Solon and I, he asked me for a divorce. I was devastated. Rose and Solon had a very good relationship at the time, and they talked a lot. Eventually, we all spoke and decided to get on the track of trying to live communally. Not as a triad, but as a family. I was really skeptical of that, but I grew into it so quickly. Now, it seems so far away, as Rose has shown such aversion to poly. I know she wants a monogamous relationship with me. She is trying very hard to make it work with me, because we are deeply in love. But that picture of the three of us seems impossible now.

I want to find a way to keep the relationships that are important to me. I have no idea how I will do that. I know that it may be impossible. But I am just so in love and I can't make myself quit.

I'm going to hit post on this without rereading it. I'm guessing it's sloppy. I've had two arguments with two different people since I began writing it. Thank you for reading. Thank you for listening.

Ella
 
Galagirl,

Your post contains a lot of hard truths. That's why I'm being such a pussy about it.

I will come back to it. This week.

Ella
 
Hi Kevin,

You're right. Time is what I have, even though so often it feels like I have none. I hope that it gets easier, but right now it feels like such a long slog. It feels exhausting.

You're right. You hit it on the nose. Rose wants more than I can give. She's trying very hard to circumvent that, and I don't know if she will win that battle. Some days it feels possible. Some days it feels like I'm just being very naive.

The reset, while infinitely logical, feels quite impossible to me.

I will accept your moral support, and I thank you so much for it. I'm sure that I sound quite defeated right now, and the truth is that in this moment that's really how I feel. Hopefully I can wake up tomorrow and fight the fight and it will turn out better than it did today.

Thanks so much. You have no idea how much I appreciate this.

Ella
 
Hi Ella,

Navigating these matters when surrounded by people that don't accept the possibility of them on the first place is hard, but be sure you're not alone !

I understand you love and care about them deeply, and you seem to genuinely be trying your best to make the situation work out, but I agree with GalaGirl that maybe you all need time and distance for at least a while. It seems like everyone knows what they want, and that finding a balance is hard... maybe breaking up should be an option so, in case you decide to keep it on, it's a real choice.

You want them both in your life, they both give you important things, but I think it's maybe time to think also about what they want. They seem to be trying hard, too, to get this going, out of love for you. But I think that if what they want is definitely incompatible, they should have the option too to find arrangements that make them feel good, though that decision is up to them.
 
You hit it on the nose. Rose wants more than I can give. She's trying very hard to circumvent that, and I don't know if she will win that battle. Some days it feels possible. Some days it feels like I'm just being very naive.

I think you should just stick to this knowledge then. Know what you want to and are able to give. Else you can't stop wearing yourself out.
She wants more. She is not bad because of that.
You have limits and preferences of your own, which are not necessarily centered around her. You are not a bad person because of that.

What battle? Whose battle? Her battle to put up with less then she expects from the relationship, or not to put up with it? Offer as much as you can in terms of support and openness to creative problem solving, but be aware that this is her battle.
I'd hate to be in her shoes (I am somewhat in her shoes), but it is her responsibility to break up if she needs a monogamous partner.
 
If you are queer you should divorce the man and be with your GF.

Salon is not dating because he's holding out waiting for more physical intimacy than you can give him.

Your partners don't get along: just one more reason to break the V
 
I have to say, I'm not entirely sure why you don't go through with the divorce other than it would be ending something that you're comfortable with and used to, and change is hard.

So many people see divorce as being this big ugly thing where you have to hate each other afterwards and it has to destroy your family, etc. But if you ultimately would like to have a less sexual relationship with Salon.... well, I call that friendship. So why not call a spade a spade? You and Salon can still care for each other and love each other and raise your family as a team and really work together.... but not be married and have sex and probably not live together (though I guess you could potentially try to make group living work if he had like a basement apartment or maybe you guys had a duplex and he was next door or something if you really wanted that close proximity for the sake of family).

This would allow you to maintain your connection with Salon, but he could seek out a relationship more fulfilling to him, without it having to be a poly relationship that might limit him from being able to find another partner. You could be mono with Rose if that is what you want to do sexually speaking. She would be mono with you and be able to have the status as your partner that she wants.

Yes, the transition and change is hard, and different, which is inherently scary, but at least then you would all pretty much have what you want, right? Your concern about losing Salon seems to make an assumption that by divorce, it means you can't have any relationship at all, and I disagree with that. You can still have a great bond as friends, co-parents, family, etc.
 
Your post contains a lot of hard truths. That's why I'm being such a pussy about it.

Things are hard enough without you putting yourself down and adding to the load. Please don't do that.

One thing that I would like to clarify, though: it's not JUST my marriage that I'm fighting for. It's the loving relationship I have with Rose. It's all worth fighting for. I'm fighting for both. Every minute, it sometimes seems.

Hon, what are you "fighting to keep" exactly? The people or the shapes (because you think the shapes help you keep the people)?

I know change is hard, but in your shoes? If you want to keep a good relationship with Solon and a good relationship with Rose? You have to be willing to let some relationship shapes that are not working GO. Not the people, the SHAPES.

Instead of thinking "these people are worth fighting for" and looking all over for battle to come while cultivating dread?

Reframe it so you think "they are worth building new things for" and look all over for opportunities. Cultivate hope rather than dread.

Let the wonky, shaky Poly V shape go. BUILD "stability" instead.

Let go of the marriage shape with Solon. Get a divorce. Then BUILD "good friendship shape" with him instead.

Live on your own, and date Rose if she's still wanting to date. But tell her that you need time to sort out divorce, time to live on your own and get to know yourself as a queer woman, and time to come out as queer to your friends and family gradually. You cannot be doing all three things overnight. If she wants to BUILD a "romance shape" with you while you are in transition, she needs to understand that you need to go at a a certain pace because there's big changes going on in MANY areas of your life. Tell her if she prefers to BUILD a "friendship shape" instead, that's ok too.

Then ASK her what shape she would most like at this time.

Speak your truths, and don't be afraid. Have confidence that actions rooted in good character will yield the best outcome possible even if you aren't sure what those outcomes might be.

You seem so focussed on "the destruction of things" that you are not looking at opportunity to "build new things" with these people.

I think if you can focus on what you can build here, you might feel better and less paralyzed/trapped.

Galagirl
 
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I identify as bi, but the proportion of attractive men seems (for me) to be MUCH tinier than the proportion of attractive women. Yet there's a few guys with whom I find it easy to be cuddly, even in public. My Kinsey number is all over the place, situationally.

I've never understood the "sudden conversion" thing. Like, I had a friend (call him Herb) who certainly appeared straight... then he met Mister Right. Out of nowhere, Herb "came out" as gay & claimed he must always have BEEN gay, & all of his het intimacy was nothing but experimentation & rationalization & denial.

And when things faded out with Mister Right, Herb went back to dating women, because he didn't find guys particularly attractive. He seemed baffled that some of his previous lovers were a little hurt by his blunt repudiation of what THEY had once felt for him.

So, salioSola, I'd suggest you stop trying to find (or build) a pigeonhole. It ain't worth the trouble. You intend a relationship with a woman, & apparently closed. If someone needs a label, then "monogamous lesbian" is fine, whatever you hold in your heart or the future may bring.

If your new partner expects a closed relationship, & is in no way willing to bend on this, then your choice is clear: accept the deal, or walk away.

If you accept, then it's DONE with your old partner, & his mere existence (or any faint affection for him) might be a point of contention.

Even if you don't accept, & decide to go it without her, your new viewpoint might lead you to end things with your old partner as well.
 
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