The Initial Conversation

I've read over most of the thread from the start, thought I admit to skipping over an occasional entry. I think I understand your frustration, MT. I do find my husband moves at a much slower pace when it comes to adjusting to poly life than I do. I can imagine how hard it is to be faced with such resistance from your wife.

And yet, I see the other side of the coin. I was not the one looking to venture out of my originally mono relationship. My hubby didn't tell me everything when we were first dating, hence I thought I was dating a straight male. It took him almost a year to admit to being bisexual. We eventually opened our marriage so HE could find a male lover, and he did. And it was a struggle for me... the most difficult decision I'd ever faced. I was scared to lose him and worried I'd opened up a can of worms that would be the END of us. Fast forward to a few months later, I decided to join in for a bit of threesome fun in order to ease MY jealousy/envy, because I REALLY wanted to be okay with it.

The irony: his male lover (with whom he's had a warm loving sexual relationship and still does) ended up falling in love with me. Now my husband is the one who's dealing with jealousy issues... very slowly. Some days, I wish I could just run away from the whole poly thing, but those are exceptions. Most days, I feel VERY lucky to be allowed all that extra love. :)
 
nouryia said:
I've read over most of the thread from the start, thought I admit to skipping over an occasional entry. I think I understand your frustration MT. I do find my husband moves at a much slower pace when it comes to adjusting to poly life than I do. I can imagine how hard it is to be faced with such resistance from your wife.

[...got involved with husband's male lover...]

The irony: His male lover (with whom he's had a warm loving sexual relationship and still does) ended up falling in love with me. Now my husband is the one who's dealing with jealousy issues...very slowly. Some days, I wish I could just run away from the whole poly thing, but those are exceptions. Most days, I feel VERY lucky to be allowed all that extra love. :)
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Ha! Sauce for the goose!

More seriously, I hope it works out well for you.
 
Strange

After two years of feeling like I'm head over heels for another woman, today I got the strangest sense of calm. For the first time, I no longer feel like I'm being torn in half, and the sense of pining is gone. I still feel a fondness for her, but I no longer feel a desperate sense of longing. The internal tension is gone, and it's very eery--like a loud café that has suddenly gone silent.

I'm now finding myself asking, "Am I sure I'm polyamorous?" It has been such a painful time for me these past two years, and now I feel ... nothing. I feel like I need to reconnect with my wife, to make sure that I can still feel love for her--I feel that still inside.

It's very weird. Has anyone else felt like this?
 
A real cautious guess: Are you tired? Totally worn out and numb? After going through a hard time of constant suffering, worrying and sorrow, I tend to feel like you described, just because I was unable to keep on like that. My head chooses to take a break and shifts focus. Your love for your wife is like an absolute term that doesn't cause suffering for you itself. Maybe because of this you start to concentrate on it for now.

I have had a good friend whom I wanted to help. But she didn't wanted me to do so. I was hurting over her situation, and felt for her, but she didn't want me to get involved. After some months I just had to move on and let her be.

I was calm, just like you described your feelings, after a phone call. She told me the same old stories again and I suddenly got the feeling: I know, you have told me numerous times, I can't do anything and I know what you will tell me if I try to. I was calm and listened to her, started to be simply there for her and pulled myself out of it. Because I couldn't change it and I stopped trying to start at a point to fix things that were out of my reach. But our friendship was still there, and I decided to start there, because it had suffered over the arguments of the past months.

We are still friends; after I let the more private matters of her slide and worked on our friendship, she suddenly started listening again one day. I don't really know if she didn't trust me back then, if she wasn't ready to accept the truth, or whatever. I just stayed at her side and waited for a better chance. Our friendship was stronger after this. I used to believe that my advice got a stronger impact after the change and the time that went by.
 
Phy said:
A real cautious guess: Are you tired? Totally worn out and numb?
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I would say so. I've been unable to get proper sleep for weeks, and when awake, I had been feeling like I was being torn in two.

Phy said:
After going through a hard time of constant suffering, worrying and sorrow, I tend to feel like you described just because I was unable to keep on like that. My head chooses to take a break and shifts focus. Your love for your wife is like an absolute term that doesn't cause suffering for you itself. Maybe because of this you start to concentrate on it for now.

I have had a good friend whom I wanted to help. But she didn't wanted me to do so. I was hurting over her situation and felt for her but she didn't want me to get involved. After some months I just had to move on and let her be.

[...sudden calm...each was finally able to listen to the other...]
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Yes, sudden for me, too. That caught me flat-footed. I want to be able to trust my feelings, but I'm unsure if I can right now.
 
Questioning your polyness isn't necessary, I don't think. Just be, heal, regroup and get in touch with yourself again. Silence is golden that way.... Ahh, a clear head! Enjoy, and be good to yourself for a bit before making any firm decisions on what lies ahead.
 
Talking to your son

MorningTwilight said:
My son, of course, knows that something is up, but does not know what. I don't know what to tell him.
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What your son is feeling right now is a lot of upheaval. With the impending move and the sense that something is going on with Mommy and Daddy, plus the new and strange hormones racing through his system... well, he's gonna be pretty confused.

He's fearing a loss of security. You, as his parent, need to continue to focus on reassuring him that you love him no matter what. That you're going to continue to be there for him. Send regular pictures. Get him used to the new city. Then to the new house/apartment. Have him send a few things ahead to set up in his room.

You also need to include reassurances similar to how parents speak to kids after a divorce. This is not to say that you're divorcing... just that the conversation is similar. "Mommy and Daddy love you very much. I know we're fighting a lot now. We live in different states and you don't see me very much. I'm still your Daddy. Mommy is still your Mommy. Our life looks different now than it did 6 months ago. Our life will look different 6 months from now too. I know these transitions are hard." Ask for his questions and keep asking - some early teens are not terribly forthcoming.

Even if he just grunts at you, you need to keep talking to him and reassuring his security.
 
It's been awhile. I've been trying to live Real Life for awhile instead of its online version.

I had thought that my crush had subsided, but I work with her, and she walked into my office today, and (it may sound silly) but the way her hair moved as she walked through the door just floored me.

I am so helplessly, hopelessly, head-over-heels in love with this woman-who-is-not-my-wife, and have been for a long time. I've never told her, because:

I am also in love with my wife, and owing to her ultimatum (she said she would leave me if I ever had sex with another woman), I am terrified of losing her (and my son).

This is tearing me to pieces. Hello, sleepless night, my old friend and enemy.
 
Hey MT, you're still living with that same ultimatum now? :( Has she ever even agreed to counseling?

I am sorry to come into this thread late, but I just read it through today. I don't have any new advice to offer, but lots of compassion.

I was married for over 30 years. One thing that is very much a fact of life in long term relationships is, the partners grow and change. I'd also married young, and I was also a closeted polyamorous person with no words for it. I just felt unfaithful and "sick" on some days, and self-righteous on other days, knowing my propensity for crushes was a natural part of me, and therefore *right,* no matter what society tried to tell me.

I also tried to hide and suppress it for many many years. I think when one gets to be a certain age, one accepts oneself (if one is brave enough) and says, "Enough is enough. This is who I am. Take it or leave it." Things I promised when I was 22 and got married no longer felt relevant or healthy. When I made the vow to be faithful, I did it with my fingers crossed... I never cheated, but I couldn't stop my feelings, and finally they became too strong to be able to hide.

My ex and I didn't break up over the poly issue, but we did break up partly because I just had to be me. I spent 10 more years than I should have, struggling to stay together, partly for our three kids (who were young teens), partly out of loyalty and inertia. We did a year of couples counseling, I did three years of individual counseling, and we talked hundred and hundreds of hours on our own, mostly going in circles. When we finally split, my oldest kid told me I should've done it 10 years earlier. My husband and I had an amicable divorce and are decent co-parents now. I'd gradually fallen out of love with him over those last 10 years, and our split came as a welcome relief from feeling judged and even gaslighted by his passive-aggressive behaviors and suspicion.

Three months after we separated, I met my current gf, Pixi; we've now been together almost three years. I've also had the freedom to engage in various other relationships, some casual and fun, others a bit more serious and bonding. It's a whole new world.

It really sucks to not feel accepted for who you authentically are by the person who is supposed to love you most. Your wife is in love with a facade, not the real you. How does she define "for better or for worse?" She is supposed to love you as you mature and learn more about your real self, and feel a need to express that, not ask you to remain the same guy you were trying to present as at 25 or 30.
 
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Magdlyn said:
Hey MT, you're still living with that same ultimatum now? :( Has she ever even agreed to counseling?
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We've seen a counselor once, but she didn't want to go back. Maybe she'll go again.

Yes, it's still the same ultimatum. I'm getting to the point where I'm willing to challenge her on that. Does she really want a marriage based upon ultimatums?

Magdlyn said:
I was married for over 30 years. One thing that is very much a fact of life in long term relationships is, the partners grow and change. I also married young, and I was also a closet poly with no words for it... I just felt unfaithful and "sick" on some days, and self-righteous on other days, knowing my propensity for crushes was a natural part of me, and therefore *right,* no matter what society tried to tell me.

I also tried to hide and suppress it for many many years. I think when one gets to be a certain age, one accepts oneself (if one is brave enough) and says, "Enough is enough. This is who I am. Take it or leave it." Things I promised when I was 22 and got married no longer felt relevant or healthy. When I made the vow to be faithful, I did it with my fingers crossed... I never cheated, but I couldn't stop my feelings, and finally they became too strong to be able to hide.
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This sounds exactly like me. I was married at 25. For the last several years, I've been wanting to date again, and I've of course had attractions (some quite strong) to other women the whole time we've been married.

Magdlyn said:
It really sucks to not feel accepted for who you authentically are by the person who is supposed to love you most. Your wife is in love with a facade, not the real you. How does she define "for better or for worse?" She is supposed to love you as you mature and learn more about your real self, and feel a need to express that, not ask you to remain the same guy you were trying to present as at 25 or 30.
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Yes. She wants an ideal that, for most, simply does not exist. The Cleavers were fiction.

It's been a rough weekend for other reasons. We've been dealing with what's likely rotavirus this weekend, and it's clearly not a good time to have difficult discussions.

She's just finished Stieg Larsson's Millennium trilogy, in which polyamory figures pretty heavily, so I'm hoping to be able to use that as a safe jumping off point to reopen dialog. "Safe" because we'd be talking about the characters in the book, at least to start.
 
MorningTwilight said:
We've seen a counselor once, but she didn't want to go back.
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This is disturbing. I have issues with people stop counseling after 6 visits when the marriage is struggling, as that's not enough time to even touch on all the issues, much less figure out how to fix anything. Did she not like the counselor or just not want to deal with anything?

If she will go back, get a commitment from her that you guys will go weekly for a couple months at least. I see the refusal to continue with counseling (especially after only one session) as a big red flag for your marriage in general. Part of this is coming from my own personal experience. Every time I have seen a couple where one party refuses to go/continue with marriage counseling, the marriage has ended within a few years. However, the partner who fought so hard against therapy almost always says, if they had only gone earlier they might have been able to save the marriage, but now it's too late, as the partner who wanted to go in the first place is no longer willing to fight for the marriage.
 
I'm sorry there has not been much movement, MT. I was hoping that there had been. Have the two of you been able to discuss this in a way that does not involve ultimatums?
 
SNeacail said:
This is disturbing. I have issues with people stop counseling after 6 visits when the marriage is struggling, as that's not enough time to even touch on all the issues, much less figure out how to fix anything. Did she not like the counselor or just not want to deal with anything?
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She did not like that the counselor specialized in gay and alternative relationships.

She was also of the opinion that we could fix things ourselves. When we got home that night, she seemed to think that everything was mostly fixed already, but I feel very much like she misled me. Her words, to me, said that we would work things out, when what she actually intended was status quo.

SNeacail said:
If she will go back, get a commitment from her that you guys will go weekly for a couple months at least.

I see the refusal to continue with counseling (especially after only one session) as a big red flag for your marriage in general. Part of this is coming from my own personal experience, every time I have seen a couple where one party refuses to go/continue with marriage counseling, the marriage has ended within a few years. However, the partner who fought so hard against therapy almost always says, if they had only gone earlier they might have been able to save the marriage, but now it's too late as the partner who wanted to go in the first place is no longer willing to fight for the marriage.
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I don't doubt you.

opalescent said:
I'm sorry there has not been much movement, MT. I was hoping that there had been. Have the two of you been able to discuss this in a way that does not involve ultimatums?
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We haven't discussed it at all since early July. Upthread, I mentioned that she was going out-of-state for a few weeks later that month, and I didn't want her to imagine that I would be out doing whatever with whomever, so I didn't bring it up, intending to reopen discussion when she got back mid-August. She seemed so happy when she got back that I couldn't bear to wreck that.

The rest is me being chickenshit. I see the stakes as being so very high that I'm stuck. (This may sound weird.) I feel ambivalent about the fact that I feel like I could get by without her, but the thought of not being a regular part of my son's life (visitation isn't the same) is a lot to bear.

On the upside, she just finished (and really enjoyed) Stieg Larsson's Millennium trilogy, in which poly features rather prominently, so I want to ask her what she thought about that as soon as I finish the third book (in about two days, I think).
 
MorningTwilight said:
She did not like that the counselor specialized in gay and alternative relationships.
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Find a new counselor that you both can be comfortable with.

On the upside, she just finished (and really enjoyed) Stieg Larsson's Millennium trilogy, in which poly features rather prominently, so I want to ask her what she thought about that as soon as I finish the third book (in about two days, I think).
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Loved these books!
 
SNeacail said:
This is disturbing. I have issues with people stop counseling after 6 visits when the marriage is struggling, as that's not enough time to even touch on all the issues, much less figure out how to fix anything. Did she not like the counselor or just not want to deal with anything?

If she will go back, get a commitment from her that you guys will go weekly for a couple months at least. I see the refusal to continue with counseling (especially after only one session) as a big red flag for your marriage in general. Part of this is coming from my own personal experience, every time I have seen a couple where one party refuses to go/continue with marriage counseling, the marriage has ended within a few years. However, the partner who fought so hard against therapy almost always says, if they had only gone earlier they might have been able to save the marriage, but now it's too late, as the partner who wanted to go in the first place is no longer willing to fight for the marriage.
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(I hope I don't hijack this thread.) I am the one who won't go to counselling right now. It was my idea to go in the first place. After about 3 meetings I got the feeling the counsellor wasn't interested in me much. Then I got a red flag when she and my wife thought I was crazy when I said the following - "I want to share my sexual desires and fantasies with my wife."

The counsellor couldn't be bothered to turn up to the next meeting ! She stood us up. Erm, excuse me, but I took a risk to reveal myself to this person. I was dumb enough to trust her. How much did she care if she couldn't be bothered to turn up? I'll tell you how much - sweet fa, that's how much. I might think again in a few years time, but right now I am not taking that risk again, thank you!
 
bassman said:
I won't go to counselling right now. It was my idea to go in the first place. After about 3 meetings I got the feeling the counsellor wasn't interested in me much. Then I got a red flag when she and my wife thought I was crazy when I said the following, "I want to share my sexual desires and fantasies with my wife."
The counsellor couldn't be bothered to turn up to the next meeting ! She stood us up. Erm, excuse me, but I took a risk to reveal myself to this person. I was dumb enough to trust her. How much did she care if she couldn't be bothered to turn up? I'll tell you how much - sweet fa, that's how much. I might think again in a few years time, but right now I am not taking that risk again, thank you!
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Finding a counselor is very personal. If you are getting red flags from the counselor, try and search for another one. I wasn't comfortable bringing up nitty gritty specifics with our counselor for at least 3-5 meetings. It took me a while to really determine if she was someone that would be fair to both of us before I started in on some of the messier issues. I didn't want someone that would just take my side or his side.
 
This was my first attempt at receiving counselling. I am utterly disgusted that she couldn't be bothered to turn up! In my wife's words, "She shipwrecked us."

The issue we have is a huge disagreement on religion. There's been a teeny weeny bit of progress without counselling. At this point, I've resolved to let time do the work I thought the counsellor might do.
 
bassman said:
This was my first attempt at using receiving counselling. I am utterly disgusted that she couldnt be bothered to turn up. The issue we have is a huge disagreement on religion. There;s been a teeny weeny bit of progress without counselling. I've resolved to let time do the work I thought the counsellor might do.
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I see a big difference between not having a good fit, having a bad experience, vs a refusal to even try. Glad to hear your wife agrees with you about the counselor. Next time, you both can be on the look-out to see if the counselor is the right fit before getting into the super personal. Differences in religious views can get sticky, especially when one partner's views change. I'm the one whose views are morphing, but we haven't had many conversations on that yet. Too many messier issues to work through first.
 
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