is he playing games with me?

N

Nyx

New member
When I was on here last, I was very happy that things were progressing. Over the last month or more, things have derailed. I broke up with my bf about a month ago because I was not feeling comfortable with the direction things were going in. The girl I had asked him to hold off with-- he ended up getting physical with her, kissing her.

I found out about this because he mentioned it in an offhand way in a group email he was sending to me, and to a totally different love interest and her bf. He didn't even tell me to my face. This put me over the edge and I broke it off with him. About a week later I spoke with him, and found out he'd had sex with that girl a couple days after we broke up. OK... fair enough. Over the next few weeks, I tried to get my head around this. I had been getting my feelings in order, and wanting to talk with him, but when I tried to a few times, I sort of lost it and fled in a fit of jealousy.

Fast forward to today: I finally got my head-space right and initiated a conversation with him about his relationship with her, I guess to really see what was happening, instead of letting my imagination and assumptions hurt me. He told me that when she got with him a month ago, she said at first she was only interested in sex. They decided to not use protection as they felt it fairly safe. They spend their time at his house being sexually intimate, eating, sleeping, and little else, outside of a play they were in together that has since ended.

We talked about him spending quite a bit of time with her, nearly every day. I wanted to know why he never spent nearly every day with me when we were together and we talked about that a bit. I have a busy life and kids, and I guess she is able to go to his house and lounge in indulgent lovemaking all night, whereas I am unable to do so very often. I asked him what would happen if I started to ask him for more of his time.

He said he had actually been thinking of spending less time with her, because he wanted to back off a little bit, and that maybe he could start spending more time with me to accomplish getting distance from her. Is it just me or does this whole thing reek of game-playing? :confused:

Another thing I mentioned to him was that he tends to leave things out, to refrain from saying too much, but that I always know when he is not telling me something. To this, he said that he does that on purpose. I asked him, why? To play games? He pretty much said it was to keep from saying too much. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't poly about being totally upfront? Isn't it about telling the truth? I feel really weird about this situation. He did say that he doesn't tell me everything because he is afraid I might get angry or upset, which I understand. But he does this even with things that I wouldn't freak out about. :(
 
Nyx said:
she said at first she was only interested in sex. They decided to not use protection as they felt it fairly safe. They spend their time at his house being intimate, eating, sleeping, and little else, outside of a play they were in together...
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WTF? First, if they are using the word poly in a relationship all about sex, they are forgetting the last part of the word: "amory."

Secondly, I would not be fucking this guy or her if "fairly safe" is their idea of safe. Grow the fuck up. Get tested and close your circle a bit if you want fluid bonding. Know the basics.

Nyx said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't poly about being totally upfront? Isn't it about telling the truth? I feel really weird about this situation. He did say that he doesn't tell me everything because he is afraid I might get angry or upset, which I understand. But he does this even with things that I wouldn't freak out about. :(
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You are right. There comes a time when you have to call bullshit. I know people have a wide idea of what polyamory is, but it does in fact have some minimum expectations of commonality. Openness and honesty are two of them.

Games? Yup. Dangerous games, because of the lack of concern for sexual safety. Use protection with this guy. Use your head as well as your heart. You have kids to think about.
 
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Well, I don't know if I would say the relationship is all about sex, but is seems it certainly started off that way, maybe, at least, from her perspective. It makes me wonder why he would risk losing our relationship, which he claims is *so* important to him, in order to be with this girl who only wants to have sex with him. I asked him that. I didn't get a satisfactory answer. Something about how he had decided to move ahead with her, and given the fact that he had already told me he was going to move ahead with her, there shouldn't have been a problem.

What I see as the problem, though, is that he risked what I was led to believe was a deep, connected love with me in order to put his penis in a girl who didn't really care about him. And he knew she didn't really care.
 
Nyx,

Personally, I don't tolerate lies of any kind, and lies of omission are more insidious than overt falsehood. You can do much better with little effort.

Ben
 
Assuming the best of him, it sounds like he has some significant growing up to do before he'll be ready for any type of relationship.

It's a no-brainer that poly relationships are more complicated than individual one-on-one relationships.

I would walk away and spend some time considering what it is you really want in life, so that you can identify what type of person would actually be a good fit in your life. I wouldn't waste my time with someone who is clearly too immature for a sustained relationship with even one person at this time.
 
BexyandBen said:
Personally, I don't tolerate lies of any kind, and lies of omission are more insidious than overt falsehood. You can do much better with little effort.
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Amen, brother.

Additionally, perhaps your perception of the deep loving connection you have is a bit more one-sided than is fair to you.
 
Interesting. Does it matter who it is? Hopefully we'll get his take, too, if that's the case. What a learning experience.
 
Actually, if it is him, he's already written a bit about this from his point of view. In terms of whether or not it matters, it matters in that there may be another perspective available. But I don't know if this is the case, which is why I asked.
 
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Ceoli said:
Actually, if it is him, he's already written a bit about this from his point of view. In terms of whether or not it matters, it matters in that there may be another perspective available. But I don't know if this is the case, which is why I asked.
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Good point. There is always more than one perspective.
 
Whether it's Legion or not, this guy is playing games, and is just not interested in or able to be in a deep meaningful relationship. Either he is young and unable to comprehend yet what deep relationships are, or he is just not interested in that, and thought it was a much better idea to masturbate in you and this other girl, and lead you on by telling you how much you mean to him just so he could keep getting off.

I would have to err on the side of finding someone who deserves your love, trust, hard-earned time and clean sex. Personally, I would ask him outright what his game is, just to see if he actually answers, and go from there. I would give him some very forthright honesty and openness and call it a day. Well, not quite. I'd go get tested, as I bet he's fucked some other girl before you, thinking that it was "kinda" safe.
 
Honesty vs. Games

Like a sledgehammer to a house of cards.
 
Setting aside the issues he's clearly bringing to the relationship (and certainly NOT to belittle their importance, especially with regards to safe sex practices), there are a couple of niggling things in my head about this.

First, didn't you break up with him? So why are you drawn back into this if you already ended this a month ago?

Second, it's my understanding that you got involved with this relationship knowing that he was poly, and knowing that you could be, but needed to work some stuff out about it. I would suggest that if you intend on getting involved with another poly person, take the time to work that stuff out *before* you get involved, instead of while you're involved. It'll probably save you a lot of drama in the long run.

But stick to knowing what your needs are, being very clear about them and recognizing when something isn't working for you.
 
Hmm... This thread was started after my convo with Nyx last night. First and foremost, I'd like to repeat a little folk wisdom I heard somewhere. "There are three sides to every story: my side, your side and the truth."

"They decided to not use protection, as they felt it was fairly safe."
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To clarify, we had a convo where I stated that my only partner during the last year and a half had been Nyx. I was tested shortly after Nyx and I got together, after more than 6 months since contact with my last unprotected partner, who had also tested clean. Nyx had also been tested. My new partner, Bee, stated that she had tested clean in January and had sex with one person since then, with whom she used a condom. We both are tested regularly. Though I usually have been tested every 6-8 months, I have not been tested since the time after Nyx and I became partners.
We have/were/are not sleeping with anyone else, since (including Nyx). The only risk I feel we took was the risk that we could be lying to each other about our Hx.

Fairly safe? Fairly safe. 100% safe? No. But hardly anything I ever do is, be it driving to the grocery store or being dropped by helicopter in the middle of a 60,000 acre fire. But I have conversations, get STI testing, wear my safety belt and attend training sessions in hopes that these actions will mitigate the dangers to a reasonable extent.

This is not safe enough for Nyx. Example: she sent me a link to this article about fluid bonding, testing, 6 months, more testing. I can't find it. But it seemed like a good safe way to do business. I agreed. Then she told me that wasn't safe enough and sent me an article about syphilis: no fluid exchange, contact with sores. That's fine. She wants to take the safety to the next level. I'm fine with a safety belt, a driver I trust. Maybe the car has an airbag, a rollbar, maybe not. Maybe it's safer not to get in the car at all.

Nyx and I talked last night about my sexual interaction with Bee, and how Bee told me she wanted an NSA relationship, but that I:
1. Turned her down on that offer. We had an email exchange, which I will paraphrase here:

B: Can we sleep together already, or are you stuck on your "relationship" thing?
L: You mean my stated desire for intimacy with someone I have sex with? Another one-night stand won't do either of us any good. I know you're scared. I am waiting. Sorry it's so frustrating but... whenever you think you're ready.
B: I hate you for somehow being able to understand me. I don't know what I want anymore.

2. As illustrated by the convo above, I saw the motivations for Bee's desire for an "NSA," but also that those motivations were based on fear of repetition of past undesirable relationship patterns. I explained this to Nyx in greater detail last night, which makes it frustrating to see statements misleading the understanding of the situation as a merely genital interaction on either Bee's part or my own.

So that's the subject of safe sex. There are two other issues I see here: one being honesty/openness, the other being a little bit of clarification of how I could "...risk losing our relationship, which he claims is so important to him, in order to be with this girl who only wanted to have sex with him?" which I will now go start another thread on and place it here.

Manno said:
Like a sledgehammer to a house of cards.
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Or like the big bad wolf to a strawman. I feel I've been tagged and bagged here as some philandering player, not the man who met Nyx when he was 18, and after over a decade was finally reunited with her (more complete story here), flew halfway across the world (Israel) and moved to be with her in a town where she was the only person I knew, lived with her, shared moments like when I was in the bathroom with her as she delivered her son. I was the only person who showed up to his first birthday party that she planned yesterday. Not to toot my own horn too much.

Yeah, I "fucked some other girl before you." Dozens of them, in fact. I've had one-night stands, sex with people I hardly knew. Actually, in our late teens, Nyx and I were one of those sort of couplings. I doubt we knew each other more than a week before we were having sex. In retrospect, I wouldn't change a thing.

I don't know if I'm crazy, if Nyx is crazy, both, or neither. She called me a psychopath on the phone last night, and I admit I don't really know. Maybe I've got some deep-seated psychological issues and I can't communicate properly, or I'm subconsciously manipulating everything to some purpose that my conscious self isn't cognizant of. I don't know. And I also see things she does and wonder... like when she broke up with me and told me she was only happy when my other pursuits were sabotaged or she was sabotaging them. Or the "safe sex/fluid bonding isn't safe enough" thing. Is that just another blockade? Idk. But as I say in the other thread, I started with I know we love each other and I know we would like to find a way for us to be together AND happy.

(Haha my goal was to be as succinct as possible here... an impossibility for me.)
 
All you have to base this relationship (be it friendship, or lovers) is on past behaviors. Only you know what you feel is right. Others have given their comments, but I wanted to say this: Don't expect people to change. Maybe you two just are not on the same wavelength, and there isn't a bad guy/girl.

I am sure there are things that you have realized from this, that you might want to take a look at in yourself. Look carefully, and honestly, because I am sure they will come up again in future relationships. Watch out for patterns in behavior that make you unhappy, either in yourself or in someone else. You only have control over yourself, and fortunately for you, who you are attracts like-minded people. So imagine what you would want, and strive for that.

I really wish you the best of luck.
 
Looks like a case of having to agree to disagree. Legion and I have very different perceptions of the same scenario. Neither of us is right, neither is wrong in the larger picture. Unfortunately, we all only have our own perceptions to go on. He and I had a conversation today about how only our own opinions of ourselves are what we can really believe, as we can never get inside someone else's head and see ourselves as others do.

Coincidentally, as he was leaving my house, as has happened many times when we have argued, there is this awkward tension as he gets on his bike. He inevitably leaves without saying goodbye. This time, I asked him why he always does that, leaves without saying goodbye. And he replied, to my surprise, "Why do you always make me stand here awkwardly without saying anything?"

It's laughable how we can't see our own actions and some things we will never notice or even think about until someone points it out to us.
 
So, from what I gather, there is a lack of smooth communication between Nyx and Legion. You two seem to have a good connection, but you need to figure out what you each want. Obviously, safe sex is important, so no need to beat a dead horse there. My wife and I have been swingers, been open, and finally realized polyamory was the right road for us. During all this, open honest communication was the key. It sounds like the three of you need to get together over dinner and seriously and calmly talk this out. Better make that a public dinner. I recommend The Olive Garden. Good luck to the three of you and I hope it all works out. If nothing else, at least try to be friends.
 
Legion said:
B: Can we sleep together already, or are you stuck on your "relationship" thing?
L: You mean my stated desire for intimacy with someone I have sex with? Another one-night stand won't do either of us any good. I know you're scared. I am waiting. Sorry if it's so frustrating, but, whenever you think you're ready.
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I'm sorry, but I am confused. She is asking if you can sleep together yet, and you respond, "I know you're scared. Whenever you think you're ready"? Who was waiting for whom here?
 
Ceoli said:
First, didn't you break up with him? So why are you drawn back into this if you already ended this a month ago?
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I guess I am drawn back into it because I see potential. I hope that I can get through whatever it is that is making me jealous and crazy, and break through to the other side where things can be good.

I am beginning to see that, although I am new to the idea of polyamory, there are definitely some things I like and could work with, and how it might even be an ideal situation for me. Unfortunately, I am also beginning to see that there are some huge communication deficits between Legion and me that are proving to be even bigger issues than sleeping with other people. Lately there have been constant intense arguments and misunderstandings, sarcasm, (name-calling on my part :() and what I perceive to be his possible mindfucks. This is a big, giant, neon, waving red flag.

I think that finding someone with compatible goals in life, similar ideals and values, is an ideal situation for anyone. As I get to know myself and Legion more and more, I see that indeed there is a pretty insurmountable gap between his goals and my own.

He does not believe that opposite life goals (or even just different ones) should be dealbreakers. Although I am inclined to agree on one level of that argument that, of course, you and your partner don't have to be going down the same paths to be able to connect and love each other, I have to disagree on another when it comes to directions in life.

Legion loves to travel, doesn't want kids, has a free and inclusive lifestyle, and never knows where he will be living one year to the next. I want to travel, but the fact that I have kids and therefore, less mobility and opportunity, is a hitch. But I pretty much know where I will be living in years to come and my tendencies are to be a little more exclusive. Also, because of my kids, I am inclined to be more selective and cautious, as well, to provide a stable environment for them.

I think my ideal polyamorous relationship would be one where there are one or two partners involved, and not these huge trees and branches of interconnected sex partners. However, Legion seems to believe that any partner engaging in the pursuit of any relationship is fair game. I personally would not feel safe knowing that his other gf, at any given time, might be having sex with someone else that I do not even know about, believing it to be "fairly safe," and then spreading unknown funk around to all others.

For me, there comes a point when too much freedom in fucking is too much. I value my health and the health of my partners, current and future. Although I am certainly not free of past mistakes of unprotected sex, I have been lucky enough to have never contracted anything. Last year I thought about it a lot and decided that never again would I 'risk it.' I expect any and all partners to be on the same page with that. The problem with Legion is that he is a person (self-professed) who is inclined to 'risk it,' and that bothers me more than I think he understands.
 
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