cowboy confessional
- Thread starter elemental
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AnnabelMore
Active member
Yeah, I've gotta disagree with some of the harshness here.
Putting his past mistakes aside, what have been Elemental's transgressions here? He was in bed naked with Nell, and that was counter to what the group had previously agreed would be their boundary. It takes two to tango. Both he and Nell screwed up there by not just asking for what they wanted, especially since it seems from some of CBG's posts that she wanted them to take some separate space as well.
So, okay, major screw-up, bound to cause hurt emotions. But can you honestly call it cheating when this was someone with whom he was already intimate, just in a group setting, and they didn't even have sex, per se?
Then there was the time he stopped by the bar. Again, certainly not cheating, just sort of a foolish impulsive thing since they were supposed to be on a break from the triad at that point. More boundary pushing, potentially hurtful, but I just can't see getting *too* mad at someone for briefly seeing someone they're supposed to be in a relationship with in a public space. I would call that a minor transgression, though of course that's not my call to make, since I'm not the one in the situation, and I'm sure it felt like an extra big deal, since they were trying to rebuild trust.
Let's have a little compassion here. Poly may or may not be the right choice for these guys at this time. But I think the biggest mistake, which all three of them made, was in setting their boundaries at a place which, to my mind, truly just doesn't work -- all together all the time, or nothing. In that context, Elemental screwed up, but I don't think he cheated, even if he's been a cheater in the past.
And it doesn't seem fair/accurate to say he was trying to steal Nell, either, just by having a little alone time with her. Maybe she and he fell for each other more than she and CBG, but that's just what tends to happen in triads, in one direction or another. Again, maybe it really did feel like that's what he was doing, and maybe I'm wrong, and it really was his intent, consciously or unconsciously, to turn the triad into more of a vee. But my guess is it was just that same natural process we seem to see over and over, handled poorly, as it all too often is.
Elemental, people here tend to operate under a model of tough love more often than not. Don't take it too much to heart. We've had people leave permanently before because they couldn't take the heat, which seemed like a huge shame, because useful conversations were happening at the same time, so try to have a tough skin if you can!
Haha! This is coming from the person who basically suggested you might have antisocial personality disorder above...
Putting his past mistakes aside, what have been Elemental's transgressions here? He was in bed naked with Nell, and that was counter to what the group had previously agreed would be their boundary. It takes two to tango. Both he and Nell screwed up there by not just asking for what they wanted, especially since it seems from some of CBG's posts that she wanted them to take some separate space as well.
So, okay, major screw-up, bound to cause hurt emotions. But can you honestly call it cheating when this was someone with whom he was already intimate, just in a group setting, and they didn't even have sex, per se?
Then there was the time he stopped by the bar. Again, certainly not cheating, just sort of a foolish impulsive thing since they were supposed to be on a break from the triad at that point. More boundary pushing, potentially hurtful, but I just can't see getting *too* mad at someone for briefly seeing someone they're supposed to be in a relationship with in a public space. I would call that a minor transgression, though of course that's not my call to make, since I'm not the one in the situation, and I'm sure it felt like an extra big deal, since they were trying to rebuild trust.
Let's have a little compassion here. Poly may or may not be the right choice for these guys at this time. But I think the biggest mistake, which all three of them made, was in setting their boundaries at a place which, to my mind, truly just doesn't work -- all together all the time, or nothing. In that context, Elemental screwed up, but I don't think he cheated, even if he's been a cheater in the past.
And it doesn't seem fair/accurate to say he was trying to steal Nell, either, just by having a little alone time with her. Maybe she and he fell for each other more than she and CBG, but that's just what tends to happen in triads, in one direction or another. Again, maybe it really did feel like that's what he was doing, and maybe I'm wrong, and it really was his intent, consciously or unconsciously, to turn the triad into more of a vee. But my guess is it was just that same natural process we seem to see over and over, handled poorly, as it all too often is.
Elemental, people here tend to operate under a model of tough love more often than not. Don't take it too much to heart. We've had people leave permanently before because they couldn't take the heat, which seemed like a huge shame, because useful conversations were happening at the same time, so try to have a tough skin if you can!
Haha! This is coming from the person who basically suggested you might have antisocial personality disorder above...
No, I don't think elemental was a cowboy in the poly sense. The cowperson, generally speaking, would be the new third person, not one of the couple. Nell is also not a cowgirl. There are no cowpeople in this case.
I agree that the thinking of this couple to "add a third" and expect all sex to be amongst the three was naive, and common. We constantly see that here. In fact, I made the same mistake when my ex-h and I first tried polyamory, with typically disastrous results, as CBG knows.
But Elemental and Nell being in bed together naked, sex or not, while CBG was supposed to be out (but came home unexpectedly) was a clear crossing of agreed-upon boundaries. So was meeting Nell in the bar when he was supposed to not be seeing her or communicating with her for two weeks. It's not huge or major, but it was still cheating, and still hurt CBG. A lot.
Elemental knows he has a habit of breaking boundaries, and transgressing agreements with his primaries in the past, so even though these current transgressions were seemingly minor, they were still wrong, and still messed with CBG's head.
However, yes, I applaud Elemental for coming here and "confessing" to his less than respectful patterns, and I hope this is a fresh start to more openness, honesty, and eventual healthy polyamory with CBG (if they survive as a couple).
I agree that the thinking of this couple to "add a third" and expect all sex to be amongst the three was naive, and common. We constantly see that here. In fact, I made the same mistake when my ex-h and I first tried polyamory, with typically disastrous results, as CBG knows.
But Elemental and Nell being in bed together naked, sex or not, while CBG was supposed to be out (but came home unexpectedly) was a clear crossing of agreed-upon boundaries. So was meeting Nell in the bar when he was supposed to not be seeing her or communicating with her for two weeks. It's not huge or major, but it was still cheating, and still hurt CBG. A lot.
Elemental knows he has a habit of breaking boundaries, and transgressing agreements with his primaries in the past, so even though these current transgressions were seemingly minor, they were still wrong, and still messed with CBG's head.
However, yes, I applaud Elemental for coming here and "confessing" to his less than respectful patterns, and I hope this is a fresh start to more openness, honesty, and eventual healthy polyamory with CBG (if they survive as a couple).
Trust is a two-way street. It is not merely doing what you say you will do, which is where I see Elemental needing to put work in. It is also saying what you mean, as CBG (and her hubbo, I hope, too) discovered some work needs to be put in. It is about believing you can say what you mean and not be "punished" or have it fall on deaf ears.
When Elemental and Nell discovered they wanted some alone time, it should have been shared first with CBG. When CBG was struggling to feel close to them as a result of being out of their loop, she should have been perhaps clearer about the emotions she was feeling over it, and not push herself too much too soon to get over it. I commend Nell for telling Elemental he had to spill about showing up at the bar or she would tell CBG herself. It means she knew what it could mean to CBG, and cared about that more than she cared about what was building between her and Elemental.
Elemental, is there any insight you might have to what gave you the impulse to go around CBG in a more vee pattern than the triad situation already afforded you? Did you feel challenged by their rapport, or made to feel like you would be eventually hedged out yourself? Do you struggle with not being the center of attention in group situations? Or did you and Nell really want to do away with the rule of "all involved," but felt CBG was not receptive to the idea? Did some part of you know it would create a split between them and make you more the focus of them both?
When Elemental and Nell discovered they wanted some alone time, it should have been shared first with CBG. When CBG was struggling to feel close to them as a result of being out of their loop, she should have been perhaps clearer about the emotions she was feeling over it, and not push herself too much too soon to get over it. I commend Nell for telling Elemental he had to spill about showing up at the bar or she would tell CBG herself. It means she knew what it could mean to CBG, and cared about that more than she cared about what was building between her and Elemental.
Elemental, is there any insight you might have to what gave you the impulse to go around CBG in a more vee pattern than the triad situation already afforded you? Did you feel challenged by their rapport, or made to feel like you would be eventually hedged out yourself? Do you struggle with not being the center of attention in group situations? Or did you and Nell really want to do away with the rule of "all involved," but felt CBG was not receptive to the idea? Did some part of you know it would create a split between them and make you more the focus of them both?
AnnabelMore
Active member
Yes! I totally meant to ask some of these questions too, but got distracted. I think it could be very fruitful to know what happened that resulted in the major beach of trust with you two being in bed together alone. What were the actions and thought processes that led up to it? It's silly for us to speculate when you could just tell us.
What preceded the event? Hmm...
Things were moving along swiftly. Nell was staying over and bed -sharing for days at a time. CBG would get up and go to work, leaving us to snuggle in bed until we got up. I think part of it was an extension of that, as well as our strong sexual/sensual connection. It was partly willful ignorance that if we were not having penetrative sex or foreplay, then it was all right to be in bed together. We both enjoyed denying ourselves, which inevitably lead to a more charged sexual atmosphere, that helped alienate CBG.
Part of me feels like if we would have been allowed to have sex one-on-one, then there would have been less pressure on CBG. But it seems the hurt would have still been there, no matter which way we took it. I think willful ignorance, not seeing how our actions where stressing CBG out added a lot to the mix.
I guess I can attribute it to a certain selfishness. Selflessness has never been my strongpoint, although I do find great satisfaction in acts of service as a love language.
There were other boundary transgressions, probably, to some, minor. But when all added up and mixed with past hurt, it was all too much for CBG. I know now that I handled that whole situation poorly, on everyone’s behalf.
One of the early boundary struggles I had was around communication, as CBG was handling all of that. I could read up on the emailing and texts, but had no independent communication with Nell, and that bothered me. At times, I could see the logic in it, as they grew their friendship, but as we became more of a triad I began to resent the limited communication I had. I wanted to be able to say “thinking of you” without it being a boundary issue. But it was. Eventually that boundary was negotiated, but not without lots of processing.
I think once the relationship got moving along (too quickly) I started to resent some of the boundaries, and my old patterns of rebelliousness were triggered, as well as our swelling NRE, which kicked in the desire for more. All of which attributed to CBG’s feelings of being alienated and overwhelmed. She wrote a real nice piece about her experience in the blog section of the forum “Ideals vs Realities."
Things were moving along swiftly. Nell was staying over and bed -sharing for days at a time. CBG would get up and go to work, leaving us to snuggle in bed until we got up. I think part of it was an extension of that, as well as our strong sexual/sensual connection. It was partly willful ignorance that if we were not having penetrative sex or foreplay, then it was all right to be in bed together. We both enjoyed denying ourselves, which inevitably lead to a more charged sexual atmosphere, that helped alienate CBG.
Part of me feels like if we would have been allowed to have sex one-on-one, then there would have been less pressure on CBG. But it seems the hurt would have still been there, no matter which way we took it. I think willful ignorance, not seeing how our actions where stressing CBG out added a lot to the mix.
I guess I can attribute it to a certain selfishness. Selflessness has never been my strongpoint, although I do find great satisfaction in acts of service as a love language.
There were other boundary transgressions, probably, to some, minor. But when all added up and mixed with past hurt, it was all too much for CBG. I know now that I handled that whole situation poorly, on everyone’s behalf.
One of the early boundary struggles I had was around communication, as CBG was handling all of that. I could read up on the emailing and texts, but had no independent communication with Nell, and that bothered me. At times, I could see the logic in it, as they grew their friendship, but as we became more of a triad I began to resent the limited communication I had. I wanted to be able to say “thinking of you” without it being a boundary issue. But it was. Eventually that boundary was negotiated, but not without lots of processing.
I think once the relationship got moving along (too quickly) I started to resent some of the boundaries, and my old patterns of rebelliousness were triggered, as well as our swelling NRE, which kicked in the desire for more. All of which attributed to CBG’s feelings of being alienated and overwhelmed. She wrote a real nice piece about her experience in the blog section of the forum “Ideals vs Realities."
Some pretty hard realizations hit me this morning. This part should be called the “addict confessional."
I am really struggling with the realization that a lot of my behavioral patterns are built up from my addictive nature, that all the signs along the way have shown me that I was backsliding into old patterns. I guess feeling good in recovery and letting my guard down, it seems to start with little things, drinking more regularly, smoking more regularly, the more intense sexual experiences, tripping on the NRE, losing sight of the selfish behavior, all that justification bullshit. UGH. Got to get out of the downward spiral and get clear.
I am really struggling with the realization that a lot of my behavioral patterns are built up from my addictive nature, that all the signs along the way have shown me that I was backsliding into old patterns. I guess feeling good in recovery and letting my guard down, it seems to start with little things, drinking more regularly, smoking more regularly, the more intense sexual experiences, tripping on the NRE, losing sight of the selfish behavior, all that justification bullshit. UGH. Got to get out of the downward spiral and get clear.
You remind me a bit of my husband. Well, not so much now, but how he use to be.
Don't wallow too much, because the work you need to put in, and the better habits you need to establish are not impossible. It might bring to you what it unexpectedly brought to him-- real pride and peace of mind. It might not sound as sexy as "outlaw" to you, but it sure has made things sexier around my house than they used to be!
Don't wallow too much, because the work you need to put in, and the better habits you need to establish are not impossible. It might bring to you what it unexpectedly brought to him-- real pride and peace of mind. It might not sound as sexy as "outlaw" to you, but it sure has made things sexier around my house than they used to be!
SNeacail
New member
AnnabelMore
Active member
Ok, so you and Nell already had a history of being alone in bed together, presumably naked (or not? I sleep naked but I know not everyone does), with BP leaving you two alone to snuggle when she went to work. The problem occurred when Nell was left in bed by both of you, and you came back home first and got back into bed with her naked? Is that correct? Was there, in fact, a clear rule about this sort of situation? I'm not trying to make excuses for you, since you yourself seem to feel very strongly that what you did was wrong, but the boundaries here seem really fuzzy to me.
Did you know that what you were doing that day would cause a huge stir if CBG found out, or did you think it would be okay? Did you plan to tell her, or did you not think that far?
Was any sexy stuff happening, or was it just snuggling along the lines of what you two had already been doing in bed together alone, with CBG's knowledge on the days when she left for work first?
Did you leave work early specifically to spend time with Nell, or did it just happen to work out that you got home early? Was Nell still in bed when you got home, or did you two get back in bed?
These may seem like really invasive questions, and I wouldn't blame you if you didn't want to answer, but the nuances here seem important to me, since this was the point at which everything started to fall apart, and I still have no idea, as an outside observer, of what actually happened.
Did you know that what you were doing that day would cause a huge stir if CBG found out, or did you think it would be okay? Did you plan to tell her, or did you not think that far?
Was any sexy stuff happening, or was it just snuggling along the lines of what you two had already been doing in bed together alone, with CBG's knowledge on the days when she left for work first?
Did you leave work early specifically to spend time with Nell, or did it just happen to work out that you got home early? Was Nell still in bed when you got home, or did you two get back in bed?
These may seem like really invasive questions, and I wouldn't blame you if you didn't want to answer, but the nuances here seem important to me, since this was the point at which everything started to fall apart, and I still have no idea, as an outside observer, of what actually happened.
IndieSolo
Active member
There was another triad who posted here a while back, a married couple and a gf, and they also had the same rules about only having sex when all three were together and all communications with the gf (dates being set up, etc.) going through the wife. This was insisted upon by the wife.
It made the gf feel really shitty, like she was only being contacted and used for sex. The gf and husband had become close and wanted more of a relationship. Everything fell apart, and the gf was left very skittish about poly because of it. I believe the unrealistic rules were the reason why.
Obviously, if three people are in a relationship, they should all have the freedom to talk to each other and not be monitored. When one person has a partner (in a mono relationship), they share many things in a relationship, like communication, dreams, hopes, non-sexy times, as well as sexy times. It shouldn't be any different when someone is a partner to two people, whether those two people are married or not.
What it boils down to, I think, is respecting everyone as individuals and equals, and not placing the new partner at a lower level than the couple, nor putting anyone in a special category. Maybe you and CBG have different visions of what a girlfriend should be, and how you would like to see the future unfolding for all of you. I think all three of you need to talk about things like this together.
redpepper
Active member
If anyone is interested, if you do a tag search for "triad," you will see that this kind of thing is not uncommon in terms of "rules," rather than "boundary negotiations"-- rules that keep people from loving to the best of their ability and in the way that comes naturally.
NYCindie, I struggle with the definitions of primary and secondary. Like, logically I can understand the concept. But practically it is difficult for me. Love is love in my heart. I can understand CBG wanting me to think of her needs first in all situations. Maybe that’s where I stumble.
Putting my wants, needs and desires, and CBG's wants, needs and desires and Nell's W,N+D all into play, I get confused. In CBG’s mind it is really very clear it seems. In my mind, not so much. I work to let her know my love for her as my wife is unconditional and all accepting, and look to take care of her needs first and foremost as much as possible. But then, there are my needs, as well. Maybe this situation is exposing some co-dependency in our relationship that was running under the surface. Maybe me treating Nell like an equal in terms of intimacy has threatened CBG. I just struggle so mightily to control my capacity to love like I want to, like I know I can. I need to find a better way to do this.
I want to treat Nell equally. This has hurt and alienated CBG, by stomping on boundaries.
AnnabelMore, I did know on some level what we where doing was wrong. I was working at home that day, and had not seen Nell over the Xmas break for a couple of weeks. We were snuggling. But there was a sexy vibe, for sure. We where in love and horny. She was lounging in bed late, and I came in for lunch and got back into bed. 15 minutes later, CBG came home. I guess I just got greedy for that physical connection. That’s my main love language by far.
I agree nuances are important. They ultimately define intent, in my opinion.
CBG has laid it all out in her recent blog post. We are in a tough spot. She has lost huge respect for me, and respect has always been a big beef in our relationship. We are both very alpha. When I feel disrespected, we fight, a lot. This has been a very humbling experience, hurting the ones I love the most always has, and I have ended up hurting both women. Emotionally we are both burned out from a month and a half of intense upset and processing, and with CBG exploring “exit strategies,“ I’m feeling pretty grim.
There is still love there, and the story is not finished, but this is certainly one of the darker moments in our relationship.
Putting my wants, needs and desires, and CBG's wants, needs and desires and Nell's W,N+D all into play, I get confused. In CBG’s mind it is really very clear it seems. In my mind, not so much. I work to let her know my love for her as my wife is unconditional and all accepting, and look to take care of her needs first and foremost as much as possible. But then, there are my needs, as well. Maybe this situation is exposing some co-dependency in our relationship that was running under the surface. Maybe me treating Nell like an equal in terms of intimacy has threatened CBG. I just struggle so mightily to control my capacity to love like I want to, like I know I can. I need to find a better way to do this.
I want to treat Nell equally. This has hurt and alienated CBG, by stomping on boundaries.
AnnabelMore, I did know on some level what we where doing was wrong. I was working at home that day, and had not seen Nell over the Xmas break for a couple of weeks. We were snuggling. But there was a sexy vibe, for sure. We where in love and horny. She was lounging in bed late, and I came in for lunch and got back into bed. 15 minutes later, CBG came home. I guess I just got greedy for that physical connection. That’s my main love language by far.
I agree nuances are important. They ultimately define intent, in my opinion.
CBG has laid it all out in her recent blog post. We are in a tough spot. She has lost huge respect for me, and respect has always been a big beef in our relationship. We are both very alpha. When I feel disrespected, we fight, a lot. This has been a very humbling experience, hurting the ones I love the most always has, and I have ended up hurting both women. Emotionally we are both burned out from a month and a half of intense upset and processing, and with CBG exploring “exit strategies,“ I’m feeling pretty grim.
There is still love there, and the story is not finished, but this is certainly one of the darker moments in our relationship.
AnnabelMore
Active member
Okay, to recap then. Snuggling naked in bed one-on-one before getting up for the day = OK. Snuggling naked in bed one-on-one after one of you has gotten up for the day = a boundary violation that constitutes a possibly-deal-breaking breach of trust.
Would it have been okay if you had gotten up to grab a glass of water that morning and then gotten back into bed after that, or is the zone of ok-ness broken the moment you get out of bed? If you had kept your clothes on at lunch, but had gotten back into bed, would that have been ok? What if you'd been clothed, but had a hard-on? What if you've been naked, but limp?
The line was not that you weren't allowed to be alone together, or that you weren't allowed to be alone in bed together, or that you weren't allowed to be alone in bed together naked... because you were already doing all that!! Just at a different time of day. So, the line was that you were not allowed to do it after one of you got up? Or that you weren't allowed to get hard?
You probably should have thought twice on this, assumed that ANYthing that hadn't yet occurred was not okay until explicitly okayed, and held off until talking to CBG. But if I'm understanding everything correctly (correct me if I'm not), I think I would have been confused in this situation, I think I would not have known what exactly was okay and what wasn't, and I might have made a similar mistake. And I don't consider myself a cheater.
I'm not trying to say anything about what should happen next. I've given some perspectives about that on CBG's journal and it's a complicated question. Just trying to dig down to the core of the major break that occurred here and look at it from as objective a perspective as I can. (Obviously I, like anyone else, have my own set of biases.) I don't know how helpful that is. But it seems important to me.
Would it have been okay if you had gotten up to grab a glass of water that morning and then gotten back into bed after that, or is the zone of ok-ness broken the moment you get out of bed? If you had kept your clothes on at lunch, but had gotten back into bed, would that have been ok? What if you'd been clothed, but had a hard-on? What if you've been naked, but limp?
The line was not that you weren't allowed to be alone together, or that you weren't allowed to be alone in bed together, or that you weren't allowed to be alone in bed together naked... because you were already doing all that!! Just at a different time of day. So, the line was that you were not allowed to do it after one of you got up? Or that you weren't allowed to get hard?
You probably should have thought twice on this, assumed that ANYthing that hadn't yet occurred was not okay until explicitly okayed, and held off until talking to CBG. But if I'm understanding everything correctly (correct me if I'm not), I think I would have been confused in this situation, I think I would not have known what exactly was okay and what wasn't, and I might have made a similar mistake. And I don't consider myself a cheater.
I'm not trying to say anything about what should happen next. I've given some perspectives about that on CBG's journal and it's a complicated question. Just trying to dig down to the core of the major break that occurred here and look at it from as objective a perspective as I can. (Obviously I, like anyone else, have my own set of biases.) I don't know how helpful that is. But it seems important to me.
AnnabelMore
Active member
As for primary/secondary, I think of them as being useful as descriptive categories. A primary is someone you share your heart, body, and your life with, someone you've made commitments with, a life-partner. A secondary is someone you share your heart and your body with, though maybe not in all the same ways, but is not someone with whom you're actively building a shared life. BP is, in fact, Elemental's primary. The gf is, in fact, his (and her?) secondary.
Generally, people who are managing poly relationships that fall into different categories like that (not necessarily because they've been prescribed into those categories, I'm not much if a fan of that, but because that's just how it is) prioritize their primary relationship(s) (yes, you can have more than one). I consider that to be good and healthy. If my gf was regularly considering my needs before those of her husband... the man with whom she shares a mortgage, a child, and a much longer commitment... I'd be not ok with that. I need to be important to her. But for her life to function, considering the much bigger impact they have on each other, he needs to be important to her more. Maybe that'll change some day. It's already shifted in some ways, after 2+ years of she and I being together. But especially when our relationship was newer, primary/secondary was just right/natural, and it still is.
So, no, not every poly tangle needs hierarchy. But I do think many of them healthily incorporate it, and that that's totally ok.
Generally, people who are managing poly relationships that fall into different categories like that (not necessarily because they've been prescribed into those categories, I'm not much if a fan of that, but because that's just how it is) prioritize their primary relationship(s) (yes, you can have more than one). I consider that to be good and healthy. If my gf was regularly considering my needs before those of her husband... the man with whom she shares a mortgage, a child, and a much longer commitment... I'd be not ok with that. I need to be important to her. But for her life to function, considering the much bigger impact they have on each other, he needs to be important to her more. Maybe that'll change some day. It's already shifted in some ways, after 2+ years of she and I being together. But especially when our relationship was newer, primary/secondary was just right/natural, and it still is.
So, no, not every poly tangle needs hierarchy. But I do think many of them healthily incorporate it, and that that's totally ok.
redpepper
Active member
I kinda agree with you Annabel, but I have noticed that most poly people, once in poly dynamics for awhile, tend to agree that primary generally means someone you have shared finances with, shared children with, shared assets with. To me its nothing to do with love. Secondaries can be loved just as much but don't have the same "joined" life. More tag searches would reveal many discussions on this topic.
I don't think its fair or realistic to expect or assume one persons needs and concerns be over another. Sure, starting out it might be wise until ones "primary" gets used to the situation, or whatever the circumstance, but working toward equality to me is what holds relationship dynamics together.
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Double dose of reality today. Our triad is over AND my personal relationship with Nell is untenable for CBG, so that needs to be over as well. We have lost the dream of the poly-fi triad and I have lost a friend and a lover. It seems CBG wants a total break, no communication whatsoever.
What choice do I have? Our relationship hangs in the balance. CBG wants me to come to these decisions on my own, to naturally defend our relationship at all costs, wants for primary to MEAN something. We have had so much fighting, so much processing over this, I am numb. I tell her just tell me what you want; what do I need to do to start us on a healing path? I listen reflectively, use non-violent communication, try to not defend my position, my perspective.
I am such a fiery person. CBG use to be attracted to that. Now I am not so sure. We work so hard at this. When did so much become so little? When did too little become too much? My best intentions are such a fucking wreck right now. This has become stream of consciousness bullshit.
I’m not going to respond to this thread anymore. Let it fade off into the back pages of this forum. Thanks to everyone who read and responded with kind and not so kind words. I’m good with that. I benefit from a little butt kicking when I deserve it. I really found the input helpful, the links, the stories and suggestions. I value everyone's perspectives. I will stay active, read, post when I can, add my 2 cents when and where I think it would help. I'll try to find another, better way to love with this fierce heart I have. Fuck.
What choice do I have? Our relationship hangs in the balance. CBG wants me to come to these decisions on my own, to naturally defend our relationship at all costs, wants for primary to MEAN something. We have had so much fighting, so much processing over this, I am numb. I tell her just tell me what you want; what do I need to do to start us on a healing path? I listen reflectively, use non-violent communication, try to not defend my position, my perspective.
I am such a fiery person. CBG use to be attracted to that. Now I am not so sure. We work so hard at this. When did so much become so little? When did too little become too much? My best intentions are such a fucking wreck right now. This has become stream of consciousness bullshit.
I’m not going to respond to this thread anymore. Let it fade off into the back pages of this forum. Thanks to everyone who read and responded with kind and not so kind words. I’m good with that. I benefit from a little butt kicking when I deserve it. I really found the input helpful, the links, the stories and suggestions. I value everyone's perspectives. I will stay active, read, post when I can, add my 2 cents when and where I think it would help. I'll try to find another, better way to love with this fierce heart I have. Fuck.
AnnabelMore
Active member
My sympathies to all three of you. Take care of yourself!!