persephone
New member
(This is a bit long.)
Until about 36 hours ago, I was in a loving relationship with my boyfriend, Jack, of over a year. We have been friends for even longer than that.
Jack and I had some bumps early on in our relationship, in that he tried to date me along with his wife, Cait. He kept inviting her on our dates last minute, etc. (Both of us ladies are straight.) I set a firm boundary, early on, that while I was open to being friendly with Cait, I was not dating another couple on my own and that was that. Jack was very resistant at first to this, since both his previous poly relationships (both over a decade ago) were with women who had been good friends with Cait, and all their socializing, even all their sex, took place with Cait present. Jack told me he never took either woman out on an individual date.
Eventually, Jack realized that I was not budging on this boundary. We actually broke up once before he finally realized that I was serious about it. Then he and I reconnected, and we started to finally have an individual relationship. Cait seemed supportive of this. About a month later, Cait indicated an interest in having a relationship with my husband, Jared. If we had to be a group thing with his wife involved, as Jack still seemed to want so badly, this group dynamic, a quad, worked better for me than some bizarre triad with two straight women.
I encouraged it. Jack encouraged it. Jared decided that he did indeed find Cait attractive and nice, and we all jumped into a quad. An idyllic month or so for the four of us ensued. Jack told me he loved me for the first time around then, and I told him I loved him too. Our spouses seemed to be good friends who really enjoyed each other's company, both in and out of bed. Jack and I were hopeful that they'd both eventually "catch up" to us emotionally and also fall in love.
Things started heading south when Jared and I started having issues in our relationship of over 20 years. He broke a relationship agreement in a really disrespectful way, and did a couple of insensitive and very hurtful things on top of that, all of them connected to Cait. I never blamed Cait for any of what Jared did. I know she never encouraged him to hurt me, nor was she even aware of most of what he was doing.
Jared and I were definitely tense with each other for a while. Jared confided in Cait about our issues. I confided in Jack too. We considered them really close friends who cared about us, outside of the romantic relationships we had with them. We both thought that confiding in them and receiving support from them was the natural thing to do. We never asked them to take sides. Mostly we just wanted them to listen and comfort us.
Jared decided to enter individual therapy to figure out why he kept screwing things up between us when he was in a new relationship (since we have had these issues in the past too). He and Cait agreed to put a temporary halt on their romantic and sexual relationship, with hopes of resuming things once he was farther along in therapy. They remained good friends. Things were mostly better with me and Jared. Things were fine between me and Jack too.
Then, we spent an evening with them, where Jared and I had a bit of a communications breakdown. I got annoyed with him in front of them (no raised voices, but definitely annoyance). He explained himself. I was fine with that, and the evening continued in peace and harmony, or so we thought.
That evening set off a two-week fit of emailed rage and abuse from Cait, to both me and my husband. I allude to a little of it in my recent thread on "trash talking."
I did not engage in the drama. I didn't answer any of the torrent of verbal abuse Cait sent me, and I blocked her after her seventh hysterical email, and told Jack I was doing so. Jared patiently tried to engage with her for the sake of making peace between the four of us.
While her point of view doesn't make a whole lot of sense to either me or Jared, the pertinent parts seem to be this:
1. Cait's anger against me started back in August (a couple of weeks after Jack and I fell in love), when Jared allowed her to overheard an argument he and I had via cellphone. I had not known Jared was with Cait when I called. I was out of town at the time, and he only told me toward the end of the call. She has been angry at me ever since that night for triggering her (self-diagnosed) "anxiety issue," something neither I nor Jared had ever heard about, until now. It is clear that her anger has only built since then.
2. While I knew that Cait and Jack had transparency in their relationship, to the point where Cait was allowed to read emails and chat logs that he and I had, even our texting, I had the idea that he shared with her only when something was puzzling him. But it seems to be clear now that Cait was routinely reading every single line of everything (and there was lots, over almost two years, as he and I IM quite a bit). While I know for a fact that I never said a single critical thing about her to Jack, either in writing or in person (because I just don't do that, and also, because I had actually liked and respected her and considered her a friend), Jack and I did have some normal couple disagreements (some things connected to his early insistence on a three-person relationship, and a couple more recent things where he was insensitive about something or other).
All of these issues were resolved quickly between Jack and me without incident. However, apparently, if I have a disagreement with Jack, and Cait is privy to it (and she has been privy to all of it, as it turns out), she holds it against me and thinks I am a bad person for being critical of her husband.
Cait also recalls incidences of me actually shouting at Jack in her presence. Nothing of the sort has ever happened. In fact, I have never even raised my voice to Jack even when we were alone. Jack and Jared also say they don't remember any such thing ever happening.
3. Cait now says she wants nothing more to do with me socially. I feel exactly the same way about her. She said some truly unforgivable, hurtful things in the past two weeks, straight out of the Mean Girls movie. She has not apologized to me for any of it. In fact, she has been demanding that I apologize to her, for getting annoyed at Jared in front of her that night, and also some other stuff (making her feel "invisible" or some such nonsense).
So, I took a good look at the situation and talked to Jack, the man I love, who says he loves me. I told him that I loved him, that this situation was very hurtful and stressful for me, but I wanted to get through it with him. I asked for his comfort and support. I told him I believed Cait might be mentally ill, and urged him to get her some help. I told him he and I could have a "separate relationship," meaning he only saw me without her along. I said I knew that wasn't ideal for him, but I said, "We need to deal with the bad hand we've been dealt here."
Jack's response was to wring his hands, tell me that Cait was his number-one priority, and that he didn't feel that a separate relationship with me would be "emotionally satisfying" for him. He did not offer one word of comfort or support to me over these past two weeks; in fact, he even tried to prevent me from getting such from another partner of mine, because he didn't want Cait to "lose face" among acquaintances. (She has met my other boyfriend exactly twice.)
As the final slap, Jack let slip to me that he was already thinking ahead to a new sexual relationship, with a long-time platonic female friend of his whom I don't know. He shared this with me perhaps five minutes after he told me that he couldn't go on a romantic weekend away with me, which would have been our first, that I had lovingly planned for us.
I told Jack it was over the night before last, with tears running down my face, and walked out of the last place we talked. He called after me, "I hope we can still be friends!"
I'm not sure what kind of advice I want here, except perhaps some opinions, based on what went down here, if there is any way for me to have a friendship with Jack now. We may need time. Or it may not be possible at all. I don't know.
I feel as if I have wasted close to two years of my life on a man who thinks women are essentially interchangeable, who didn't really love me at all.
Until about 36 hours ago, I was in a loving relationship with my boyfriend, Jack, of over a year. We have been friends for even longer than that.
Jack and I had some bumps early on in our relationship, in that he tried to date me along with his wife, Cait. He kept inviting her on our dates last minute, etc. (Both of us ladies are straight.) I set a firm boundary, early on, that while I was open to being friendly with Cait, I was not dating another couple on my own and that was that. Jack was very resistant at first to this, since both his previous poly relationships (both over a decade ago) were with women who had been good friends with Cait, and all their socializing, even all their sex, took place with Cait present. Jack told me he never took either woman out on an individual date.
Eventually, Jack realized that I was not budging on this boundary. We actually broke up once before he finally realized that I was serious about it. Then he and I reconnected, and we started to finally have an individual relationship. Cait seemed supportive of this. About a month later, Cait indicated an interest in having a relationship with my husband, Jared. If we had to be a group thing with his wife involved, as Jack still seemed to want so badly, this group dynamic, a quad, worked better for me than some bizarre triad with two straight women.
I encouraged it. Jack encouraged it. Jared decided that he did indeed find Cait attractive and nice, and we all jumped into a quad. An idyllic month or so for the four of us ensued. Jack told me he loved me for the first time around then, and I told him I loved him too. Our spouses seemed to be good friends who really enjoyed each other's company, both in and out of bed. Jack and I were hopeful that they'd both eventually "catch up" to us emotionally and also fall in love.
Things started heading south when Jared and I started having issues in our relationship of over 20 years. He broke a relationship agreement in a really disrespectful way, and did a couple of insensitive and very hurtful things on top of that, all of them connected to Cait. I never blamed Cait for any of what Jared did. I know she never encouraged him to hurt me, nor was she even aware of most of what he was doing.
Jared and I were definitely tense with each other for a while. Jared confided in Cait about our issues. I confided in Jack too. We considered them really close friends who cared about us, outside of the romantic relationships we had with them. We both thought that confiding in them and receiving support from them was the natural thing to do. We never asked them to take sides. Mostly we just wanted them to listen and comfort us.
Jared decided to enter individual therapy to figure out why he kept screwing things up between us when he was in a new relationship (since we have had these issues in the past too). He and Cait agreed to put a temporary halt on their romantic and sexual relationship, with hopes of resuming things once he was farther along in therapy. They remained good friends. Things were mostly better with me and Jared. Things were fine between me and Jack too.
Then, we spent an evening with them, where Jared and I had a bit of a communications breakdown. I got annoyed with him in front of them (no raised voices, but definitely annoyance). He explained himself. I was fine with that, and the evening continued in peace and harmony, or so we thought.
That evening set off a two-week fit of emailed rage and abuse from Cait, to both me and my husband. I allude to a little of it in my recent thread on "trash talking."
I did not engage in the drama. I didn't answer any of the torrent of verbal abuse Cait sent me, and I blocked her after her seventh hysterical email, and told Jack I was doing so. Jared patiently tried to engage with her for the sake of making peace between the four of us.
While her point of view doesn't make a whole lot of sense to either me or Jared, the pertinent parts seem to be this:
1. Cait's anger against me started back in August (a couple of weeks after Jack and I fell in love), when Jared allowed her to overheard an argument he and I had via cellphone. I had not known Jared was with Cait when I called. I was out of town at the time, and he only told me toward the end of the call. She has been angry at me ever since that night for triggering her (self-diagnosed) "anxiety issue," something neither I nor Jared had ever heard about, until now. It is clear that her anger has only built since then.
2. While I knew that Cait and Jack had transparency in their relationship, to the point where Cait was allowed to read emails and chat logs that he and I had, even our texting, I had the idea that he shared with her only when something was puzzling him. But it seems to be clear now that Cait was routinely reading every single line of everything (and there was lots, over almost two years, as he and I IM quite a bit). While I know for a fact that I never said a single critical thing about her to Jack, either in writing or in person (because I just don't do that, and also, because I had actually liked and respected her and considered her a friend), Jack and I did have some normal couple disagreements (some things connected to his early insistence on a three-person relationship, and a couple more recent things where he was insensitive about something or other).
All of these issues were resolved quickly between Jack and me without incident. However, apparently, if I have a disagreement with Jack, and Cait is privy to it (and she has been privy to all of it, as it turns out), she holds it against me and thinks I am a bad person for being critical of her husband.
Cait also recalls incidences of me actually shouting at Jack in her presence. Nothing of the sort has ever happened. In fact, I have never even raised my voice to Jack even when we were alone. Jack and Jared also say they don't remember any such thing ever happening.
3. Cait now says she wants nothing more to do with me socially. I feel exactly the same way about her. She said some truly unforgivable, hurtful things in the past two weeks, straight out of the Mean Girls movie. She has not apologized to me for any of it. In fact, she has been demanding that I apologize to her, for getting annoyed at Jared in front of her that night, and also some other stuff (making her feel "invisible" or some such nonsense).
So, I took a good look at the situation and talked to Jack, the man I love, who says he loves me. I told him that I loved him, that this situation was very hurtful and stressful for me, but I wanted to get through it with him. I asked for his comfort and support. I told him I believed Cait might be mentally ill, and urged him to get her some help. I told him he and I could have a "separate relationship," meaning he only saw me without her along. I said I knew that wasn't ideal for him, but I said, "We need to deal with the bad hand we've been dealt here."
Jack's response was to wring his hands, tell me that Cait was his number-one priority, and that he didn't feel that a separate relationship with me would be "emotionally satisfying" for him. He did not offer one word of comfort or support to me over these past two weeks; in fact, he even tried to prevent me from getting such from another partner of mine, because he didn't want Cait to "lose face" among acquaintances. (She has met my other boyfriend exactly twice.)
As the final slap, Jack let slip to me that he was already thinking ahead to a new sexual relationship, with a long-time platonic female friend of his whom I don't know. He shared this with me perhaps five minutes after he told me that he couldn't go on a romantic weekend away with me, which would have been our first, that I had lovingly planned for us.
I told Jack it was over the night before last, with tears running down my face, and walked out of the last place we talked. He called after me, "I hope we can still be friends!"
I'm not sure what kind of advice I want here, except perhaps some opinions, based on what went down here, if there is any way for me to have a friendship with Jack now. We may need time. Or it may not be possible at all. I don't know.
I feel as if I have wasted close to two years of my life on a man who thinks women are essentially interchangeable, who didn't really love me at all.
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