Poly Isn't For Me/Tired of Sharing My Wife

[GalaGirl]

Oh, dear. I was hoping it would not happen in this fashion.

It is painful to watch the people you love do this. I guess there was just too much bottled up inside. You could tend to each other better in future to steam-valve along the way, when it is small and doable, and not risk blowing a gasket again.

You could agree to stick to a better conflict-resolution method than yelling and screaming at each other in the next round, perhaps.

http://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newLDR_81.htm

Framing requests in non-violent manner so it keeps it on task toward finding solutions, rather than assigning blame.

http://www.nonviolentcommunication.com/aboutnvc/4partprocess.htm

Maybe even write out the talking points to stay on track and not derail into name-calling, venom-spewing, etc. Sometimes knowing your turn is coming on the agenda can help keep things cooler. You could create an agenda. You have family business here. Run the family meeting respectfully and like serious business.

Maybe that is all the first session could be. Not even get into the meat of conflict resolution just yet; just acknowledge that the previous attempt was just not cool. Digest those links together, form an agenda for the next session, call it a day, and get a pizza.

If people emotionally flood, even in a planning meeting, agree to take a time out to gather yourselves back together.

Even if it got ugly, I hope letting it out was cathartic. I hope they can apologize-- all of you apologize to all of you. Many balls got dropped. All were responsible for the original sources of discomfort that led up to this latest situation. All were involved in creating the situation.

Perhaps this older post could comfort you, Ry, as the hinge person. That was a triad who had a big elephant thing to work out. Though it was rough, they did in the end.

I wouldn't let it go longer than one hour. You could all agree to that time limit and set a timer. Stick to those 3 goals:

• All apologize to all
• Digest the links
• Make an agenda for next time
• Go cool off again

Then everyone can walk away from it feeling like, "All right. That was a lot better than last time. All right. We're moving it forward in baby steps. I can feel better about it. We are not done, but the elephant is starting to break down. We can do this."

If you need to retain a counselor to help guide you through this rough patch, do! Needing extra support is nothing shameful.

Hang in there,
Galagirl

 

[FullofLove1052]

Oh, dear. I was hoping that would not happen in that fashion.

It is painful to watch the people you love do this. I guess there was just too much bottled up inside...

Agree to stick to a better conflict resolution method than yelling and screaming at each other in the next round...

http://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newLDR_81.htm

Framing requests in non-violent manner so it keeps it on task toward finding solutions rather than assigning blame.

http://www.nonviolentcommunication.com/aboutnvc/4partprocess.htm
Stick to those 3 goals:

• All apologize to all
• digest links
• make agenda for next time
• Go cool off again

Then all can walk away from it feeling like "That was a lot better than last time... baby steps..."

If you need to retain a counselor to help guide you through this rough patch, do.

I had prayed that it wouldn't happen like this. It started, "As much as I care for you and cherished the time we spent together, I know for certain that staying in this relationship is presumably not the best option..." That was fine. If you know it's not working, free her, and we can transition back to a V.

It took a turn for the worse within minutes. Unfortunately, that turn was on an icy road on the side of a mountain with a steep edge. Matt said, "I hope this doesn't offend you, and that you don't take this the wrong way. I apologize in advance if it does..." He went on to say that he isn't exactly a fan of being part of a poly family, not particularly enthused that she and I are together, and some other things. The words were carefully chosen, and it was painful to watch. Those are his feelings, and I guess they had to come out.

I can tell you now. No apologies will be issued anytime soon or ever. Two stubborn people who are set in their ways. The ones that have been issued as of this moment were were laced with gasoline with a match in hand, e.g., "I'm sorry that you're not welcome in our home anymore." We got into a tiff because of that. So it's safe to say their issues are causing problems between us as well. What a beautiful welcome home, huh? Not.

I do like your suggestions as far as therapy agenda. It might be "family" business, but one member has made it crystal clear that she's not part of any family of his. I will be seeking an outside therapist because it's hard being the hinge and trying to be neutral.

Our session starts in about 45 minutes. I can't even say for certain that they'll both show up. I hope so. *fingers crossed*

 

[BoringGuy]

Things don't always work out in real life the way they do on paper.

That's REALLY what is "wrong" with polyamory... and monogamy... and relationships... etc.

Good luck with your counseling session.

 

[GalaGirl]

I hope it goes ok.

So far it sounds like Matt reached his limit, and stated as much. "Here's my line in the sand on these issues."

Great. We all have a limit. Doesn't sound like it came out with the most elegant of ways, but it is out. His issues have been identified.

So where's the moving it forward part? Does Matt have suggestions? Does Si? Does Ry?

It is back into a V shape. But right now it is a V shape in disharmony. What's the plan for restoring harmony? Before even chasing that shiny thought down that road...

1) Could assess who is still in it here. Where is Ry's willingness? Matt's willingness? Si's willingness? What things are people willing to do? Are you willing to work all together toward ending the suffering and restoring balance to the V-shape universe? Yes? Go on down that road.

2) No? People are no longer willing to participate in a harmonious V, with Ry as the hinge? The V-shape universe itself needs to change? If you cannot have a triad, cannot have a V, it's going to be what? Everyone single? Something else that is between a V and "all single" in there somehow? Accept "No parties are willing at all," and have that conversation instead. The landing of the polyship.

Whichever way, it has to move forward. If you don't move it forward, well, time marches on and moves it forward for you, whether you like it or not. Sigh...

You could choose your path:

• Life is something you purposefully create for yourself to meet your own wants, needs, and limits, or
• Life happens to you as you just float along.

Before making major life-changing decisions here, give yourselves a time out for a few weeks for self care. No contact at all. Just time out. See your counselor on your own, restore inner balance first. If it is destined to end, that break doesn't change much. If can be brought back into harmonious V, perhaps taking a break to cool off from high emotions would help.

Just another thought for handling this. Take care of yourselves. It's rough right now, but it needn't keep on being Crazy Town if everyone chooses not to go that route. You can get through this.

Good luck,
Galagirl

 

[IndieSolo]

I hadn't read this thread until now. As I was reading, I began to formulate a reply. Basically I was going to say that Matt needed to talk before he let it build up to an explosion. I was going to say it is perfectly acceptable for Matt to express to Si, "I have been feeling the need for privacy and to connect with Ry alone, so I would rather that you not stay for two or three days at a time and, instead, go back home after an overnight. And please, just use your keys for emergencies when we ask you to. It has felt like an intrusion or an invasion of my privacy when I come home and you're already here." All of that can be discussed calmly and rationally, without raising any voices.

But then I read:

A few shorts hours ago, everything exploded, and it wasn't pretty at all.

This is what happens when important communications get bottled up inside. Eventually the cork will pop and there is a mess. It is too bad that the break-up talk and the need for privacy talk got melded together. I think it is important that Si knows they are separate issues.

However, now it is all out in the open, and at least the truth of what has been seething underneath everything has been revealed. I would say that, as you all move forward, the most important thing to do is to forgive (you are all human and handled things the best way you knew how) and do not hold on to resentments. Resentment is a killer. If you feel it rise within you, do everything to let it go. Look at the love you have and remind yourselves that it is this love that is at the base of the choices you are making.

Be tender with each other, and be thankful that the reality of the situation is now out in the open and no one is pretending anymore just to keep peace. The waters will be choppy for a bit, but keep coming back to loving each other, and loving yourselves.

In actuality, though, Matt could have expressed his feelings sooner, or in a less volatile fashion. He stopped disrespecting himself by letting it out. That seems like a better path to take than just putting up with shit that makes him unhappy. You both now have an opportunity here to forge a new, more truthful way to relate.

Maybe Si will learn from this also. I would ask her to start looking at what she was getting from being so entwined in your marriage, and what she was looking for when she let herself become entrenched in your home. I would suggest she look at how to expand her life to include more so she doesn't have to take so much from what you two have.

Turn this explosion into a blessing and keep talking.

 

[BoringGuy]

Yes, it doesn't sound like you are bad people at all, and you shouldn't give up on your relationship with Si. Just learn to be more pro-active when it comes to communication.

Although, my theory of how a successful relationship works has something to do not with how well the people get along when things are good, but with how well they fight and get along when things are not so good.

 

[Magdlyn]

I am glad Matt let his feelings out, but sorry it was delayed and they came out in a hurtful fashion.

Poor Si! She has a lot to deal with-- a very long-term relationship with one; a long friendship, short romantic/sexual relationship with the other; two households; love and investment in the children.

Your lives are so complicated. All in the medical field, working long hours in the same hospital, business trips for conferences, a preschooler and nursing teething baby, a nanny, two homes... You're obviously wealthy-- you live in a gated community, have four guest rooms. But jeez, money doesn't buy happiness or automatically produce good communication skills.

In polyamory, the first rule is communicate, communicate, communicate. Be fearless about stating your needs. Especially now, with two noisy demanding children in the mix, clarity between the adults is key.

Sometimes dads can get resentful of the attention two young children need from the breastfeeding mom. Add in Mom's gf and things are even more tricky.

Good luck with counseling!

 

[FullofLove1052]

As far as today's session...the only thing I can say is, "Good grief." We're going to become regulars. Si didn't show up, but it was still eventful.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry to maintain sanity. I'll start with the positives.

• Stronger and more efficient communication is an absolute must. The most important thing ever. Somewhere along this path, Matt and I lost some of it. I used to be so in tune with him and what he was feeling. I could tell what he was thinking by looking at him. We have to get it back. I'm a pretty good listener, but I don't think I was hearing Matt. Obviously, my relationship with Si has been hurting him deeply. That was news to me. Perhaps Matt tried to express that, and I guess in a selfish moment, I tuned it out or downplayed it.
• I have to accept that he is mono, and he did have to make a sacrifice when agreeing to this. I also have to accept the fact that it was and possibly still is a struggle for him to fully embrace it. We have to do things to make each other feel loved and special. If my relationship with Si continues, I have to show him why I married him and what sets him apart from the rest and even Si.
• In accepting the above, I also have to accept that he has changed and grown as a person. It's not criminal that he outgrew my lifestyle and desires something different. Change is inevitable, and part of how we grow to be the people that we are today.
• Needs have to be addressed and outlined. If there are any missing, we need to be proactive and getting them back on track, so that one person's needs don't overshadow the whole image. One of Matt's is the need for Si not to be around. Right now, it's ever. Work in progress.
• We have to figure out which relationships are worth saving or ending. Obviously theirs is shot, but there's still a foundation of friendship, so there's a glimpse of hope. I can tell you right now, my marriage isn't ending. It's not to say that it's more important than my relationship with Si, but right now, we have to work on our marriage. Naturally, I have to work on my relationship with her. Matt--if he desires--has to work on their friendship and get back to a level of being civil, at minimum. I'm of the belief that you have to put your marriage before children and such, so it's taking precedence for the time being. Our marriage is worth saving, so energy has to be put towards that. I'm guilty of neglect and maybe complacency. I can't change the past, but we are in control of what happens from here on out.

Now for the not-so-lovely side. Matt's true feelings were revealed, and boy, I tell you. They are something serious. The good news is he was calmer during the session, but adamant and clear.

In a brief synopsis: he's hurting big time. He feels guilty about nearly hating my relationship with Si. It's not jealousy. It just reached a point where he couldn't contain those feelings any longer. They were showing in other ways. Excluding her? A way to make her feel a fraction of the pain he's been dealing with. Everything reached a point where it was bothering him so bad that he just exploded.

When asked how he really feels about me being poly, it was an eye-opener. In short, he doesn't feel like he's enough for me. He knows and gets this is what I believe in, but it doesn't ease the pain of the realization that when he looks at Si, she's getting half of him, which is me. He calls me his other half. He admitted to having a lot of resentment.

Yes, our lives are crazy. Money doesn't buy happiness. Actually, I'm cheap as hell. Our lives are just this crazy now because, where we live, you have to have 50 CME credits per year to keep your licenses active. Other than that, we travel leisurely, but right now, these conferences are needed. They had been scheduled long before the triad had formed and before the issues arose. We wanted to knock them out within the first part of the year. Matt and I are working to rearrange some things, so that we can continue with our sessions.

We decided not to put the kids in daycare because, as their pediatrician said, "Daycare facilities are cesspools of germs." Granted, when they left, they'd be like little troopers with strong immune systems. I know what dwells within daycares, and we had no desire to be visiting a pediatrician once or twice a week behind upper respiratory issues and other illnesses. That's how a nanny came into the picture. Not the original plan, but after hearing that, it was like, "Umm... okay. We'll keep them at home for awhile."

Si didn't show up, which I get. Matt telling her that she wasn't part of our family probably cut deep. If you had been there all these years and then for someone to tell you that, it's probably too soon to be around them. I'm not even mad. A little disappointed, but we're human. Sometimes you have to step back and collect your thoughts. I respect her need for space.

We're having dinner tonight. We are scheduled to attend a session without Matt on Friday. I'm not pushing the joint sessions. That's a fire hazard right now.

We're not taking it week by week, or even day by day. It's more like hour by hour. We're going to get there some kind of way. I have faith, and I'm being positive. We can do this.

 

[Livingmybestlife]

My pediatrician had a different view. I can say, from working in daycare for college, I get it. There is a point where the kids are going to need to build their immune systems. For most modern children it is in daycare. Yes, they get sick. But don't they get sick in pre-K or kindergarten? I was a stay-at-home mom, but I put my little one in daycare mornings 3 days a week so she would get her immunity up.

There is also a first-time teacher immunity build-up. Frequently new teachers have to rebuild their immune systems. Just a thought.

It seems like things got very blurred and Matt is feeling like he was the last priority of anything. I understand you're a homebody, but in working this through you might consider taking yourself to Kensi's for dates.

It seems Matt hasn't felt or heard about his needs. It is so weird to me that in December you were writing about them having a child together, when in fact he was struggling. That is a huge difference in views.

I agree he needs to communicate. Is it possible that he didn't feel safe, or feel he had the right to make his needs heard?

I can tell you that I have had a major disconnect with my husband, and we are currently separated. He had a lack of honesty going on. He is working in therapy towards resolving the family of origin issues that brought this about.

Also, my boyfriend and I just broke up because of issues in our relationship that had nothing to do with my husband, more about not feeling respected. So I have great empathy for you.

 

[GalaGirl]

Hour by hour will do. Do what it takes to put your own oxygen mask on, then deal with the problems one at a time.

GG

 

[FullofLove1052]

Our pediatrician is old-fashioned and has an entirely different set of beliefs, but he's an amazing doctor. His wife is a SAHM of 5, so naturally his perception is biased. They have stair-stepper kids, so daycare would be costly for them. If I remember right, only one is in school. The others aren't old enough yet.

Our daughter will be in pre-K later on this year, so some changes will be made. It won't be cost effective to have a nanny, so I might be willing to try daycare.

Listening to this lady this morning made me go "Hmm..." Since she started working at that daycare, she has had more visits to her doctor than ever before. Various upper respiratory infections, ear infections, and a slew of other things. I know there is no way to pinpoint the exact location where she contracted the various things, but daycares do have quite a few germs.

I remember from when my little brother was at one. At one point, he was visiting his pediatrician every week, sometimes twice, if he requested a follow-up appointment in the same week. That wasn't that long ago. Fevers, ear infections, bronchitis, etc.

I do agree that children are able to build up their immunities. I guess part of not wanting them in a daycare was me being a protective mother and wanting to shield them while I can. The pediatrician's opinion was just the push I needed to say, "This is exactly why we're keeping them at home."

Things got blurred, for sure, like looking through rose-tinted glasses. The issues about them having a child were worked out and agreed upon. We moved past it, and everything was on a good path.

Then, within three-and-a-half weeks, the quality of things went down, which leads me to believe something transpired that I don't know about. I wasn't in their relationship. I noticed a change in his attitude in mid-to-late January. Maybe it's nothing, and he just finally cracked after keeping everything bottled up for too long. A crack in the foundation is the start of problems and the beginning of a black hole, aka the abyss.

I was reminded why Matt and I click so well. We both put others before ourselves and run the risk of putting our happiness second. It's our downfall. You can lose sight of yourself in the process. I think that's what happened. Him putting my feelings and happiness before his own led to his resentment. Every so often, we need to stop and remember this: "My happiness is an extension of your happiness, and if you're not happy, then there's no way I can be fully happy."

 

[BoringGuy]

I was reminded why Matt and I click so well. We put others before ourselves and run the risk of putting our happiness second. It's the downfall. You can lose sight of yourself in the process, and I think that's what happened. Putting my feelings and happiness before his own lead to resentment. Every so often, we need to stop and remember this: "My happiness is an extension of your happiness, and if you're not happy, then there's no way I can be fully happy."

I know what you're saying, but do you give him the power to throw your friend out of your home when she hasn't really done anything to him? This isn't someone you picked up off of Craigslist three months ago.

I have to tell you, what gets me about this thread, really, is the title. It combines a statement about something that applies to him and links it with a statement that declares ownership of you. You might want to point this out to your new therapist, because it speaks volumes about how your husband views the fundamental basis of your relationship.

You seem like a strong woman who does not take kindly to having others think for her. Unless there is some sort of D/s dynamic to your marriage, he has no business referring to you as a thing or a piece of property. You are the only one who can "share" yourself, and you should be the one who decides who you share yourself with. Not after 12 years, and pretty much the same length of relationships, one of them gets to up and decide things have sucked all this time, and the other relationship needs to stop.

 

[MeeraReed]

I know what you're saying, but do you give him the power to throw your friend out of your home when she hasn't really done anything to him? This isn't someone you picked up off of Craigslist three months ago.

I have to tell you, what gets me about this thread is the title. It combines a statement about something that applies to him, and links it with a statement that declares ownership of you. You might want to point this out to your new therapist,, because it speaks volumes about how your husband views the fundamental basis of your relationship. You seem like a strong woman who does not take kindly to having others think for her. Unless there is some sort of D/s dynamic to your marriage, he has no business referring to you as a thing or a piece of property. You are the only one who can "share" yourself, and you should be the one who decided whom you share with. Not after 12 years, and pretty much the same length of relationship, one of them gets to up and decide things have sucked all this time, and the other relationship needs to stop.

I was going to say the same things. FullofLove, I'm glad that you have sympathy for your husband's viewpoint and feelings here, because I sure don't. I don't have a lot of sympathy for someone who would let his resentment build in total silence, for years, until it's suddenly too late.

I'm pretty biased in my feelings, because my ex-boyfriend/best friend did that exact thing to me. He finally decided to be honest about how unhappy he'd been, and for me, it came totally out of left field, made absolutely no sense, left me feeling like four years of my life had been a lie, and came too late for anything to be worked out, because he resented me so deeply he had no interest in friendship or communication with me.

Two and a half years later, I have managed to be rebuild my life and my self-esteem and my happiness, but I am still rebuilding my sense of trust and love and hope.

 

[GalaGirl]

We put others before ourselves and run the risk of putting our happiness second. It's the downfall. You can lose sight of yourself in the process, and I think that's what happened.

I am glad you recognize that as a potential downfall.

Putting my feelings and happiness before his own lead to resentment. Every so often, we need to stop and remember this: "My happiness is an extension of your happiness, and if you're not happy, then there's no way I can be fully happy."

I'm not sure you get that it takes two to tango if you are leading interdependent lives in this relationship model you share.

There is also, "If I am neglecting my own wants, needs and limits, I am hurting not just me, but also my partner and our relationship. I'm not holding up my end of the sticks when I neglect my well-being. Others count on me being healthy."

Was he broadcasting the message, and you overlooked it, because you put yourself first? That is one thing.

Did he withhold info and expect you to read his mind? That's another thing.

To me, it sounds like he put not wanting to make waves ahead of his own overall well-being, to have his own wants, needs, and limits broadcast and request they be honored. This choice built up resentments, because things were going unmet too long. And he blew. He neglected his own need to articulate and open the steam valve along the way appropriately, for his own well-being, and now there were explosions all over everyone.

• Matt could be responsible for knowing and stating his wants, needs, and limits.
• If you haven't heard about them in a while, you could exercise your right to clear communication and ask him to disclose them.

• Given that the right to clear communication is granted in your relationship agreements.
• Given that the responsibility to know and state your own wants, needs and limits is indeed held as a responsibility to the overall relationship.

Not assumed. GIVEN. So you can hold each other accountable to each other and to the interdependent relationships' health and well-being.

If that is the model you want to cultivate, do that, all the way across.

Not you taking on board all the elephant yourself from hinge guilt. Everyone could owns a piece of the elephant and situation making. Y'all are still recovering from the initial kablooey, so take it hour by hour. People are human. Things happen. Hopefully people can learn.

But lift up -- "If we are going to aim for an interdependent model here, then we have to really play interdependently then."

Or choose to change the model going forward... maybe a "free-agent V" rather than an "interdependent V." Maybe something else.

Talk it out. One thing at a time. You will get there.

Galagirl

 

[Livingmybestlife]

I don't really understand how it went from no cohabitation to habitation, when this happened previously it was decided no cohabitation. It seems the signs were there and now Matt is getting cast as the bad guy. I don't think that is productive. It took all three to make this situation.

Why was it okay for you to ignore something being off? Why was it he didn't feel he could express himself? Why was it that Ry never went to Si's place? It seems like those all need to be addressed.

Even questioning his statement of being your "other half," when clearly that wasn't the case.

I think being introspective and looking at each of your roles is important. While it may seem like all is lost, I think the very opposite. I don't think positive relationships can go forward without the poison being exposed and dealt with. While really painful now, it can be worked on and processed.

 

[FullofLove1052]

Do you give him the power to throw your friend out of your home when she hasn't really done anything to him? This isn't someone you picked up off of Craigslist three months ago.


What gets me about this thread is the title. It combines a statement about something that applies to him, and links it with a statement that declares ownership of you. You might want to point this out to your new therapist, because it speaks volumes about how your husband views the fundamental basis of your relationship. You seem like a strong woman who does not take kindly to having others think for her. Unless there is some sort of D/s dynamic to your marriage, he has no business referring to you as a thing or a piece of property. You are the only one who can "share" yourself, and you should be the one who decides whom you share yourself with. Not after 12 years, and pretty much the same length of relationships, one of them gets to up and decide things have sucked all this time, and the other relationship needs to stop.

I definitely get what you're saying. I don't think it's in an ownership type of thing. D/S marriage? No, it's not that kind of tea party. I know Matt doesn't view me as his property. What I took away from the (quote/unquote) "sharing" thing was in relation to the heart. Sometimes you have to break it down. When he spelled it out, it was like, "Ohhh... I get what you're saying."

I'm a strong woman and a firecracker. I'm the most sane one in this whole mess. I'm adding peacemaker to my resume.

I'm not giving Matt the right to do anything. For my own peace of mind, and to keep the flames of hell from surrounding the outside of my home, I'm keeping them apart.

I talked to our priest. He gave me holy water. I'm very religious. I put some all over the house. I prayed for peace and tranquility. The one place I demand peace and quiet is in my house. I will not stand for them going toe to toe and arguing around our children. Take it elsewhere.

Today, I woke up with a brand-new attitude and on something new. I'm not forcing them to be friends, get along, or anything. I have to maintain my own inner peace and tune out the outside issues. I'm a naturally happy person. And you know what? I'm going to stay that way.

 

[BoringGuy]

I don't really understand how it went from no cohabitation to habitation, when this happened previously it was decided no cohabitation. It seems the signs were there and now he is getting cast the bad guy. I don't think that is productive. It took all three to make this situation. Why was it okay for you to ignore something being off, why was it he didnt feel he could express himself, why was it that she never went to her place. It seems like those all need to be addressed. Even questioning his statement of being your "other half," when clearly that wasn't the case. I think being introspective and looking at each of your roles is important. While it may seem like all is lost, I think the very opposite. I don't think positive relationships can go forward without the poison being exposed and dealt with. While really painful now, it can be worked on and proceed.

Sure, it takes three people to tango, but as far as "why she never went to her place"--

* Si is someone who has been there since the beginning. She isn't some unicorn they just picked up and can't get rid of now.

* Their children consider Si a third parent. The preschooler calls Si "Mommy" (or whatever name they use).

* Last but not least, Matt said he invited Si to stay for dinner, but assumed she would leave. That's just dumb. Don't say shit you don't mean, and expect that people will know you mean the exact opposite, especially when they're in a relationship with you (which you are planning on breaking off, but they have no clue about it), and have a history where they're part of the family, even though they're not related by blood or marriage.

It would be a whole other thing if Matt hadn't admitted these things about himself. But at least we have Ry's story, and that makes it pretty safe to say that Si didn't bring any of this on through actions or lack thereof on her own part.

I've had this happen to me before, not in the context of an intimate relationship, but it sucks when you take someone else's words at face-value and trust them, then find out not only did they lie to "protect my feelings," but the whole time I was there, they were hating it and wishing I'd leave and never come back.

That sucks. That is no way to treat someone, especially when they watch your kids for free.

 

[BoringGuy]

What I took away from the (quote/unquote) "sharing" thing was in relation to the heart. Sometimes you have to break it down. When he spelled it out, it was like, "Ohhh... I get what you're saying."

Then could you explain it so that I "get what you're saying"? He doesn't want to "share your heart" with Si? How is that supposed to work? You are supposed to not feel things in your heart for your girlfriend because someone else is "tired of sharing you"?

My point is that it's not up to him; it's up to you who you share your heart with. Just because it isn't a physical "ownership" doesn't make it any less of an "ownership" issue. Maybe Matt "assumed" that Si was "just a phase" and that you'd "grow out of it," and now that you have kids you should be "getting serious."

Oh, but wait! Now the kids are looking upon Kensi as a third parent. OMG, this isn't going the way I wanted it to go. Si should be getting less involved now that we're a "family," not more involved. No way is she crow-barring her way into this. Maybe she'll get tired of babysitting and leave... she can find other friends to hang out with... Oh no! She's staying for dinner. Shit, that backfired. Maybe if I pout and shuffle my feet uncomfortably she'll get the hint. Okay, she's sleeping over again. Not cool, but I'll just step up the passive-aggressive behaviours a notch next time... Aaaaaand next time comes... etc.

Don't get me wrong-- it's your life, and if you feel that you are able to handle it this way, fine by me. I'm just thinking it will take more than holy water to fix this one.

 

[FullofLove1052]

Let me clear up a couple of things. Our kids consider Si a third parent. The oldest acknowledges her as such. The baby is too young to care. As long as he's being fed, changed, and someone's playing with him, he's good to go.

Si offered to watch them if it was needed. It wasn't forced on her, or even asked of her. We offered to pay her, and it was turned down. She thinks of them as her own kids. Getting paid to watch your own kids... probably not the norm. IDK how other people do it, but personally, I don't want to be paid to watch my kids.

It wasn't for some extended amount of time, or always, just every so often, if we were caught in rush-hour traffic, or if something happened and the nanny became ill. Basically filling in. Not watching them for 10-12 hours and being uncompensated. At best, an hour or so, just until one of us could get there.

Yes, it takes three to tango. We all know we played a part of things popping off the way they did. Could've, should've, would've... Didn't. The end. Move forward. Let it go. We can't live in the past or worry about what happened then. We have to live right in this moment and figure out how to exist amongst each other.

I don't foresee any type of friendship between Matt and Si again. It's just not happening. Matt's been clear. From 9-5 or whatever schedule is being worked, he'll be professional and keep the issues off the job. But after that, no contact or communication. If he wants to act like she doesn't exist, I don't have mind control to prevent those thoughts. If that's what it takes to help him sleep at night, I respect that.

Years ago, we agreed to no cohabitation. That was long before the triad had formed or before the thought was even born. We did a sort of re-evaluation/checkpoint and agreed to try it with the understanding that if it didn't work, no hard feelings would be had, and we could move on and learn. It didn't pan out. No hard feelings. Moved on and became water under the bridge. That's all that was.

Yes, there were probably issues that had not been vocalized at that point. That's what happens when you keep everything inside. You just explode and you make people listen. It's like a tornado. Does it stop to see what's in the path, or does it continue until the destruction is done and it breaks apart?

Where we are now: the issues are out. Some of them will be worked out. Others? Not a chance. It's too much of a stretch to even expect them to be cordial or polite towards each other. It's easy to keep your feelings and emotions out of business, though. It's reminiscent of having coworkers that know nothing about your personal life. They see you every day, but they don't know about what you do after you leave. That's Matt's stance right now, and possibly forever.

 

[FullofLove1052]

Then could you explain it so that I "get what you're saying"? He doesn't want to "share your heart" with Si? How does that supposed to work? You are supposed to not feel things in your heart for your girlfriend because someone else is "tired of sharing you"? My whole point is that it's not up to him, it's up to you who you share your heart with. Just because it isn't a physical "ownership", doesn't make it any less of an "ownership" issue. Maybe Matt "assumed" that Si was "just a phase" and that you'd "grow out of it" and now that you have kids you should be "getting serious. Oh but wait - now the kids are looking upon Kensi as a THIRD PARENT. OMG, this isn't going the way I wanted it to. K should be getting LESS involved now that we're a "family", not MORE involved... No way is SHE crow-barring her way into THIS. Maybe she'll get tired of babysitting and leave... she can find other friends to hang out with... Oh no! She's staying for dinner. Shit, that backfired. Maybe if I pout and shuffle my feet uncomfortably she'll get the hint. Okay, she's sleeping over again. Not cool, but I'll just step up the passive-aggressive behaviours a notch NEXT time... Aaaaaand next time comes... etc.

Don't get me wrong. It's your life, and if you feel that you are able to handle it this way, fine by me. I'm just thinking it will take more than holy water to fix this one.

I have to maintain sanity some type of way. Nothing is going to fix this overnight, or ever. Right now, they can't even be in the same room. Imagine how that makes me feel. I'm in the middle of two feuding parties. Counseling is going to help some, but if they're not willing to even partake in joint sessions, who is that helping? Somebody has to be the sane and calm one.

I get what you're saying. I don't get the vibe of ownership issues. That's not how it feels. If that were the case, wouldn't it be like saying, "I own you for 99 years, or X amount of time," like a leasehold property? Sharing in regards to everything. Feeling like he's only getting a fraction of me, whereas I presumably have most or all of him.

In Matt's mind, it's not balanced. He doesn't understand the whole argument of, "Sometimes in poly, it's not like the heart is being rationed off. It expands to accommodate." Remember his attempt at poly failed, as that accommodation and expansion didn't occur. This argument has fallen on deaf ears.

Since he tried polyamory, and was able to reaffirm that he's monogamous, it stands to reason that he's had moments of clarity and he's projecting his realizations on to me. In his mind, only loving one person is normal, so guess what that means? How I live isn't normal to him. It's a foreign concept.

I understand what you're saying about being passive aggressive. I don't know how to explain that. I don't have the answers to anything. This is a discovery process.