Poly Isn't For Me/Tired of Sharing My Wife

[SchrodingersCat]

Our children aren't old enough for that, so it would be out of our hands, based on a number of factors, or solely at the judge's discretion.

If both parents can behave like grown-ups, the courts will never swoop in and take it out of their hands, unless the parents are unfit. At the rate you're going, you are showing signs of being unfit. A parent who deserves input in their children's lives truly wants what's best for them, and isn't willing to just throw them under the bus as a casualty of war, just because talking to the other parent is too uncomfortable.

If you can't communicate like a grown-up, get a mediator. They help you create agreements with the other parent, but without lawyers and judges.

But you're on your crusade, and obviously you don't care what anyone thinks but yourself. I only hope your children have the strength of spirit to not be destroyed by your selfishness.

 

[BoringGuy]

Well ya know, Matt hasn't DONE any of this yet - he's just thinking about it. The more folks try to talk him out of it, though...

That's great, it starts with an earthquake, birds and
snakes, an aeroplane and Lenny Bruce is not afraid.
Eye of a hurricane, listen to yourself churn - world
serves its own needs, dummy serve your own needs. Feed
it off an aux speak, grunt, no, strength, Ladder
start to clatter with fear fight down height. Wire
in a fire, representing seven games, a government
for hire and a combat site. Left of west and coming in
a hurry with the furies breathing down your neck. Team
by team reporters baffled, trumped, tethered cropped.
Look at that low playing! Fine, then. Uh oh,
overflow, population, common food, but it'll do. Save
yourself, serve yourself. World serves its own needs,
listen to your heart bleed dummy with the rapture and
the revered and the right, right. You vitriolic,
patriotic, slam, fight, bright light, feeling pretty
psyched.

 

[Dirtclustit]

What exactly are you saying, BoringGuy? I don't see the relevance of the excerpt of the poem. Is posting lyrics just a passive-aggressive way of asking Matt why he is posting here?

 

[BoringGuy]

I guess I don't see the relevance of the excerpt of the poem. Is posting lyrics just a passive-aggressive way of asking him why he is posting here?

No.

By the way, that is an incorrect use of the term "passive aggressive." I don't care what wiki says. The classic example of passive-aggressive is when someone agrees to one thing to get you off their case, and then does whatever they want anyway.

It has nothing to do with posting lyrics to ask a person why he is posting here. That does not even make sense. Why would I even do that? I already asked him why he is still posting, he answered me, and I thanked him. Pay attention.

The lyrics are to the song "It's the end of the world as we know it" and I think they're self-explanatory to why they describe this situation. If you don't get it, that's not my problem. I wasn't writing that post in response to something you said.

 

[laughingowl]

I hope you read this even if you don't reply.

BoringGuy, I am responding to people. That is all. I have taken my own advice. This is my last post. Wish you all well in everything you do. Bye.

Matt,

First, my condolences to all three of you. This is certainly not what any of you wanted.

My one piece of advice which I haven't directly seen others give is-- you say you aren't hurting. Your own words though call that false, though. "I care about my wife's feelings. I don't want to hurt her." Yet you know this is hurting her. So you are doing something you don't want to do, even if it is what you feel you need to do.

You ARE hurting. This hurt can and does impair your judgement, which is the one reason folks have suggested going slow.

Personally, I have gout, and when it flares up I have seriously considered cutting my foot off. Now, for most folks out there, this may sound rather extreme (and I am glad I never did). However, to anyone that has gout, they will tell you that during a bad attack, the thought of a home amputation couldn't hurt any worse.

Likewise, right now you hurt. Now, it may be the foot needs to come off, and the damage done is bad enough that that is the best option.

The catch is make sure why you are cutting the foot off. Are you cutting it off because right now the pain is so bad you can't stand it, and you think the only way you ever will be happy is if it is gone? Or have you (or better yet, an expert) looked at it and decided the damage is so bad the foot will never be healthy again, and they only way for you to be healthy is if the foot is cut off.

If it's over, it's over. So be it. But separate yourself a bit, let the passion die a bit, and think about it. Your own words do imply you have feelings for your wife, so even if not for her sake, do not lash out and do something that in the long run will make you more unhappy.

All things end in life. We cannot change that. What we can change is how they progress through life, and how they end. If it's over after any reasonable effort, it's over. But you do owe it to yourself (and the others), to try to make an effort to see to EVERYONE (yourself, as well as them) in finding an ending that does everyone as much good as possible.

 

[laughingowl]

The one other piece of advice I would give to all involved here (and anyone going through anything vaguely similar): life, happiness, and "goodness" are too precious to waste.

Sure, if something is over, it's over, and it can be difficult. But address issues, and ultimately move on, whether separate, or moving on past the issue.

In the end, all things change. Even the "perfect" relationship (or movie, or date, etc.) can change into something you are not happy with.

The point is to try not to let anger, disappointment, sadness, hatred, or what ever darkness overcome you. Sure, you may say this is a crappy way to break-up, you very likely are hurt, and that is normal, but don't let that hurt overshadow potentially years of your life.

When this is done, hopefully the "dark days" will be that blip you skip over. Try to leave it so even when it's over, you focus on, remember, not the break-up, but rather:
The feeling when your child took their first steps.
The look in your wife's eye when she first held your child.
The anticipation when you asked your wife to marry you, before she answered.
The first time your wife fell asleep in your arms.

I am sure you can come up with other good memories, if you can over look the current pain, some of which may even surprise you.

But again, the point is if it is over (and even you still say you will try everything from A-Y), then it's over. Move on, figure out how to make everyone as happy as possible, but don't lessen yourself because something changed and deny years of your life.

I personally have memories of Star Trek as being the coolest, most awesome thing in the universe, and don't want to lessen my younger years by diminishing those memories, even if I am not sure you could get me to sit still for an original series episode now without staples and good glue.

Likewise, if your current thing is over, let it go, deal fairly and honestly, but let it be gone, and remember not the breakup, but rather all the good times.

Peace and best wishes to all of you on finding your happiness, whereever it lies.

 

[dingedheart]

TGIG, I think you're confused on a couple of things.

First, let me ask if you think it's possible for someone to have an awakening? Do you understand the premise of the "reverse awakening" as it applies here?

There's a difference between realizing that poly exists and is a possibility after years of mono, versus realizing after years of poly that you don't really want it at all, and were just going along with it to make someone else happy. Sticking with mono because you aren't aware of other options is quite different from sticking with mono or poly because you're trying to make someone else happy by not being honest with yourself about what you want.

If a person were a serial monogamist, a cheater, etc., for years (history), finally gets married, commits to a traditional mono marriage, is happy for several years, has kids, more years pass, not so happy for a period of time, and then he or she reads a book, sees a TV show, has a dream or whatever, and boom, it clicks: "I'M POLY. I'm wired for non-monogamy"-- is that person a liar? Were they lying to themselves and their spouse all that time?

Where's the line in trying to assimilate, trying to make things work for your marriage, the greater dynamic, and doing things "just" to make someone else happy?

I think Matt knew what he wanted. I think he was trying hard to see if it he could achieve a watered-down version of his ideal, and giving Ry what she wanted. Does that make it a "lie"?

You always have to consider the spouse and kids, imo. I'm never one to say, "You have to stay married because that's what you agreed to" but he does have a responsibility to his kids, at the very least. For those who realize they want poly after years of mono, I say the same thing: go slowly. Be gentle with your spouse's feelings. Take baby steps. Remember that other people's lives are entwined with yours and respect that. How in the hell is anything different being said in this case?

Yes, people should consider their spouse and kids, but thinking within the strict confines of the "reverse awakening" concept, when does it happen in "regular awakening"? I've never seen anyone suggest they should carefully weigh the effects of changing the marital dynamic on children when considering taking up a poly lifestyle with a reluctant spouse. I've read a lot of threads, never seen that. Please list the ones you've said that on.

The full stop is the problem. That wouldn't be "celebrated" in a mono-to-poly relationship either. He's making quick, unilateral, devastating decisions. Like if I woke up today and said, "Oh, sorry, MC. I've spent the last month or so thinking about it, and I don't want to be married to you anymore. I'm going to take the kids and move in with TGIB." Umm, no, that would not be okay, or encouraged, or fucking celebrated. I'd be out of my damned mind, and extremely hurtful and disrespectful to the person I chose to have kids with.

The word "celebrated" was used to describe how a new person is treated upon their personal awakening. The words of support to the new member, following that internal wiring, not on the particulars of their executing their plans for their new lifestyle, or the effects it had on others within their sphere.

The general advice is to be patient, and provide educational materials and emotional support to the partner caught flat footed. It's their identity; that's who they are; accept and deal. In this case it's the opposite-- compromise his identity for her time management and being a co-partner. He doesn't want to be a co-partner. Fuck that. That doesn't matter. It's his culturally-caused repressed emotions causing a knee jerk reaction.

Yeah, the general advice is to be patient and LEARN MORE. So what's the problem with applying it here? Learn what these feelings really are, where they come from, and take time to figure out if they can be gotten past/dealt with. It took 12 years to get here, I don't understand what's so awful about recommending 12 months to figure out where everyone wants to go from here.

Nothing wrong with the suggestion of taking his time and thinking it through. It seems he's being judged for his decision. He's British, so he's got cultural baggage surrounding repressed emotions.

Why can't he have a mono identity? That seem to be belittled by those things. Her identity must be honored and his can be compromised. The compromise is his ideal partnership and life for some time management.

How would you do that with gay person?

Recently on 3 active threads the struggling spouse or mono partner was advised to end the relationship. If ya can't get a handle on your emotions, if you're miserable all the time, end it. Chalk it up to relationship lifecycle, hard limits, knowing when to say when, incompatibility. But not in a case of reverse awakening.

It just seems you cant have it both ways. It seems unfair.

I assume to all here thinking these thoughts that their transition from mono to poly was met with complete love and understanding.

It's all about how much time has been put into it, in either direction. The wife has put 12 years into her poly relationship as the hinge in a V before learning that her husband didn't want poly. I put 10 years into my relationship with my husband before I added a boyfriend, and MC knew the entire time that I was non-monogamous. If he suddenly decides one morning that he doesn't want this/me/my lifestyle then yeah, he damned well BETTER be prepared to put some time in to working through things. We may still end up splitting if our differences turn out to be irreconcilable, but he's not going to be able to just walk out and "decide" to remove himself from the equation. Not when he married me, and decided to have kids with me, knowing EXACTLY who and how I was.

This is a very valid point and I agree with you. Also a flaw in my logic is the difference in the author's point of view. The strugglers that I was thinking about were the partners of the "awakened." In this case (reverse awaking), that advice should be given to Ry, and like you said, after an appropriate amount of time of her struggling to be mono.

Ry didn't force him to be part of something he didn't want. He chose it. He told her he was okay with it. And funnily enough, she chose to believe her spouse. So pardon me if I think slowing down before drastic actions are taken is his price to pay now.

Yeah, I didn't force my wife, either. I asked along the way. I even paid for marriage counseling for god knows how long. Funnily enough, I chose to believe my wife, too.

How do you slow down on an Identity?

A person walks up and says, "Sorry, honey. I'm gay." How do you slow that down? How do you compromise?

 

[ThatGirlInGray]

I think you're confused on a couple of things.

Different point of view does not equal confused.

First, let me ask if you think it's possible for someone to have an awakening?

No, not in the sense that you're using the word. A sudden realization? Sure. A sudden realization that MUST be acted upon RIGHT NOW?? No.

Do you understand the premise of the "reverse awakening" as it applies here?

Understand, sure. Even sympathize with, especially now, after Matt's more extensive explanation, which laid out far deeper issues than just "I don't want to be poly anymore," and a more balanced outlook on the next few steps. But agree with? No.

I don't care what your realization is-- gay, poly, atheist, whatever (and I've been through "awakenings" on all those topics), you don't have to rush into ANYTHING. If you suddenly realize you need to stop drinking, fine, stop drinking. But something that has the potential to drastically affect, even damage your relationships, particularly with your children? Slow down and take your time.

Matt seems to be saying he is doing this now. I think some of his more emotional posts gave the impression to some of us (me included) that he was rushing into drastic action. But if that isn't the case, good. And I wish them all the best in trying to work this whole thing out.

If a person were a serial monogamist, a cheater, etc., for years, finally gets married, commits to a traditional mono marriage, is happy for several years, has kids, more years pass, not so happy for a period of time, then they read a book, see a TV show, have a dream, or whatever, and boom, it clicks-- "I'm poly. I'm wired for non-monogamy"-- is that person a liar? Were they lying to themselves and their spouse all that time?

This got addressed in another thread, I believe, when Jane brought up a good example. If they really truly didn't realize, because they didn't know it was an option, then I will take back any accusation of lying, and they can just be mistaken about what they wanted. Being mistaken is fine. We're human.

But, if they were avoiding introspection out of fear, or because they were trying to make someone else happy/not be alone, then they were, at the very least, lying to themselves, and possibly lying to their partner.

Where's the line in trying to assimilate trying to make things work for your marriage, the greater dynamic, and doing things "just" to make someone else happy?

Good question. I would say that, like the compromise that gets discussed here so often, it has to do with finding a solution that BOTH/ALL parties are content with. If you aren't reasonably content with the result, then it's not the right/appropriate solution yet. And obviously, Matt was not content if resentment had been building up for this long (along with other issues, apparently, regarding how Ry manages her relationships).

Yes, people should consider the spouse and kids, but thinking within the strict confines of the "reverse awakening" concept, when does it happen in "regular awakening"? I've never seen anyone suggest they should carefully weigh the effects of changing the marital dynamic on children when considering taking up a poly lifestyle with a reluctant spouse. I've read a lot of threads, never seen that. Please list the ones you've said that on.

First of all, to me, that's a faulty premise, and therefore not answerable, since I don't agree with your concept of "awakening."

Second of all, seriously?!? I'm not going to do your homework for you. You want to know where I, or GalaGirl, or anyone who deals with poly and kids have said it, you can go look it up. If you search for pregnancy that would probably be fastest. There have been several threads where people have recommended slowing down and not opening yet when you're already dealing with adding a baby.

From everything I've read (here and elsewhere) the general consensus is that polyamory is not detrimental to children as long as people are respectful, considerate, and responsible in their move to/practice of poly. That includes slowing down/waiting if someone isn't ready yet. In this reverse case, I would apply that as staying respectful and considerate of Ry, even though Matt no longer wants to be part of a poly relationship, and responsibly working towards either a new agreement or a separation, whichever way it ends up going.

The word "celebrated" was used to describe how a new person is treated upon their personal awakening. The words of support to the new member following that internal wiring, not on the particulars of their executing their plans for their new lifestyle, or the effects it had on others within their sphere.

There tends to be greater support given for those going against the norm rather than those going back to the norm. That's human nature. And this is a POLYAMORY board. Yeah, there's going to be more support for those trying to work towards poly rather than away from it. So I guess I'm not sure of your point. If you're complaining because a poly board supports people trying to be poly more than people trying to not be poly, besides "No kidding," I don't know what else to tell you.

Nothing wrong with the suggestion of taking his time and thinking it through. It seems he's being judged for his decision. He's British, so he's got cultural baggage surrounding repressed emotions. Why can't he have a mono identity? That seems to be belittled by those things. Her identity must be honored and his can be compromised. The compromise is his ideal partnership and life for some time management. How would you do that with gay person?

No, his identity as such was not belittled, just the way he seemed to rush in the completely opposite direction after so many years. If there's no rush, no drastic actions taken in the heat of anger and cold of hurt/revenge, then fine. It may still be a difficult, painful process for them to work out what they each actually want, and whether or not they are compatible in a relationship, but that's life.

How do you slow down on an Identity? A person walks up and says, "Sorry, honey. I'm gay"-- how do you slow that down? How do you compromise?

You don't slow down an identity. That's ludicrous. (Yes, I know that's your point.) But you absolutely have a choice in how quickly you act on that identity. I went through the first 6 years of my dating life not realizing I was bisexual. Once I figured it out, it was still another couple of years before I dated a girl. And it didn't kill me. I wasn't even particularly miserable.

Same with polyamory. MC and I have taken baby steps for years to get to this point. We've gone from "flirting, dancing with and making out with someone else at a party is okay, as long as the other isn't there" to me having a second committed sexual relationship that we're trying to turn into cohabitation.

But that was over the course of 15 years. No one is going to die if they keep their status quo for a little longer while they communicate and work out what the issues really are, unless, of course, it's an abusive situation. Then they absolutely need to Get Out Now.

 

[dingedheart]

TGIG, I'll have to do my homework before addressing all your points, but before I read some 520-odd posts, do you remember telling a newbie who had experienced "a sudden realization" that they should consider the impact of such a decision on the children?

Could you give me a hint as to how many there might be? A rough guess. Just a range.

Thanks,
D

 

[AutumnalTone]

Judgements and aggressive language seem counterintuitive to encouraging a forum member to find their voice and express their needs to a partner.

Note: Nobody here has any obligation to encourage anybody else to find their voice or express their needs.

Seriously.

BoringGuy has been having an interesting and useful discussion with others posting in this thread. That Matt wasn't posting is not BoringGuy's problem. As BoringGuy hasn't been flaming anybody and the discussion has been productive, there's nothing for folks to complain about.

If you don't like BG's posts, avoid reading them. BG has no obligation to discuss anything in a fashion you would prefer. You don't have to like BG's style. That's OK.

This post serves as a reminder to everybody, actually. It's perfectly OK if somebody posts something here that you don't like. It's perfectly OK if somebody posts in a fashion that you don't like. We have never guaranteed that you won't be offended at any time. A great part of the value this site offers readers is that it supports multiple viewpoints and reactions.

 

[Matt]

Good morning. Nobody ran me off of here. I wasn't offended by anything or anyone. I can tune you out or ignore you if you're not saying anything I care to read. The same should apply. Don't like what I'm saying? Don't respond or overlook this. That's that. No hard feelings.

I never lost my voice. It wasn't heard because it wasn't what was desired. Something finally clicked during our last session. She actually understood me. I could have given her a round of applause. I'd been waiting for that day. It feels nice to be heard.

I don't owe anybody but my kids a thing. I owe it to them to try to stay in this marriage and keep our family together. I'm doing it for my kids and myself. I'm not even doing it for my wife. That's part of the problem. I've been doing things too long to keep the peace and to keep her happy. Not doing that anymore.

I'm not really hurt, contrary to what's believed. Initially, yeah. Guess what? I got over it and moved on. Sitting around sighing and wishing things were different wasn't going to change facts.

I'm not even angry. I actually felt a bit of softness toward my wife. I told her I loved her before I went to bed. We actually had a nice little chat. Once the awkward vibes wore off, it was ace.

I did have an awakening. I'm in a different chapter of my life, and part of that chapter involved deciding whether to just live in an almost constant state of diluted contentment, with occasional times of happiness, or genuinely be happy. Part of that contentment included only having a piece of my wife and pieces of her time due to her other relationship. Nothing in life is fair, but if I'm giving 100%, where is it written or acceptable that I get 20%? I know I can't have all of her time. We have small children, careers, and lives outside of each other.

I dealt with her poly lifestyle, state of being, or whatever it is you want to call it. It was like a watered down drink at a bar. After so many, you might get a buzz, but eventually that feeling wears off, and you sober up. I sobered up after years of dilution, being drunk on love, and started thinking clearly, instead of with an intoxicated mind and love-laden heart. Could I have just demanded that she live in a monogamous way to please me? Sure, but we'd be divorced now, and well, I'd probably be in my second marriage.

At the end of the day, I wasn't lying to myself or trying to prevent being alone. I can handle being alone. I can be alone and treat myself well. It was a compromise, and slowly turned into me getting the short end of the stick. In the beginning, I got to be with the woman I loved, she got to keep on living the way she pleased, and also got to keep her other relationship. Major compromise from a person with a monogamous background and hardwired for it.

Slowing down? What was that going to change? I don't want to hear about how it's unfair to the kids and they didn't ask for this. I know that, which is why I separated myself and decided to at least try other things before saying "to hell with it." If you're going down that road, they didn't ask for a part-time "mother" in Si, or to even be part of a poly family. Did they have a say in either of those things?

This relationship is a poly relationship because of my wife. It doesn't matter that I'm monogamous. This situation still has to be treated like a poly relationship and handled like one. I can't say I expected balanced support here. A monogamous marriage forum wouldn't understand this. We even had to find a poly-friendly therapist. It was either go to one of those forums, or go to one that describes the type of relationship I'm in. I chose the second.

Suddenly I'm the personification of Anti-Polydom. My situation is mine. I don't have the power to influence anybody to do anything. I don't see myself running from thread to thread and telling people to get the hell out of Dodge right now to prevent this from happening to them. I also don't see myself bashing the way anyone lives. I don't understand it, but that's where that ends on here. Some things just aren't meant for me to understand. Shrug.

And my situation is no different than those of you who woke up after X amount of years of a monogamous relationship and marriage and acknowledging that it's just not enough. In my case, I accepted that only getting a fraction and some of my wife simply wasn't enough anymore. It's the reverse for me.

Once again, I hope you're all doing well and thriving in your lives. If not, I hope things work out for you. Out again.

 

[Magdlyn]

First, let me ask if you think its possible for someone to have an awakening? Do you understand the premise of the reverse awakening as it applies here?

If a person were a serial monogamist, a cheater, etc., for years, finally gets married, commits to a traditional mono marriage, is happy for several years, has kids, more years pass , not so happy for a period of time, and then they read a book, see a TV show, have a dream or whatever, and boom, it clicks-- "I'm poly. I'm wired for non-monogamy"-- is that person a liar? Were they lying to themselves and their spouse all that time?

Since this describes how I lived for 20 years when I was married, I'd have to say yes. I didn't know about the possibility of ethical non-monogamy, but I still felt I was lying to my ex-husband whenever I got crushes on friends, neighbors or celebrities, he'd suspect it, and I'd deny it "to protect his feelings."

I also felt like an evil slut.

So, in Matt's case, I'd say it's even more like lying, because of course he knew that monogamy existed. It's our culture's default.

Where's the line in trying to assimilate, trying to make things work for your marriage, the greater dynamic, and doing things "just" to make someone else happy?

It is a fine line! There is compromise you can live with, and then there is compromise that undermines your very soul. Perhaps Matt over-compromised, though. Mono/poly marriages exist and do work. He maybe just needed better time management, but he didn't speak up, and things went on too long.

I've never seen anyone suggest they should carefully weigh the effects of changing the marital dynamic on children when considering taking up a poly lifestyle with a reluctant spouse. I've read a lot of threads, never seen that.

How odd. It seems to me people consider their children all the time in poly. Personally, I know I've said I could not have done poly very well when my kids were young. They took so much energy I had no interest in dating other partners. I would have just liked to be able to comment on attractive people to my ex without his jealousy going through the roof!

He British, so he's got cultural baggage surrounding repressed emotions.

I said that. It's not a judgment; it's an assumption that might have some merit.

Why can't he have a mono identity?

He can, of course. If he wants a monogamous partnership, however, that is going to take some work now. He'd probably need a new partner.

That seem to be belittled by those things. Her identity must be honored, and his can be compromised.

No one should compromise their entire personality and soul. However, that was his choice and modus operandi. Now, he has to entirely restructure his life, plus the lives of his wife, his metamour and his two young children.

How would you do that with gay person?

Calm down, please, dinged. No one is asking Matt to have a romantic relationship with more than one woman, or with a man. No one is insisting he remain in this relationship within the same parameters. The 180 he made, from acting content, to actually having sex with his metamour(!), to then wanting out of everything and burning all bridges-- that was the concern.

 

[Matt]

Metamour. I hate that bloody word. I slept with her, and I can count the number of times one hand. It wasn't a continuous thing. Once that guilt was in motion, it came to a dead stop. It never happened again. The beauty of that is I told her why it must stop. It felt like cheating. Why continue doing something that makes you feel like shit?

My 180 is within reason. Each of us knows how we want to live and what we need to do in order to live that way. For most of you, monogamy is not part of that image. You might tried monogamy for however long, and you came to a crossroads or a point of no longer being able to deny who you were. Continue living and feeling like something was missing or talk to your spouse about opening your marriage. What would have happened if your spouse had not been accepting or on board with that idea? Would you have left, or would you have let them leave in order to pursue your happiness?

I never lied to my wife, or even to myself, for that matter. I knew she was polyamorous. I knew that meant compromising, being understanding, being tolerant, and making sacrifices. I grew out of it. I grew tired of being so accommodating, always compromising, always making sacrifices, and always being understanding. In return, my concerns were ignored and my say was undermined. I guess none of that matters. I didn't try to change her, and she got to keep other relationship.

For me, polyamory is not part of my vision anymore. I lived with it for years, and then over time, I questioned whether I wanted to live contently with occasional bursts of happiness for the rest of my life, or did I want pure and true happiness? It reeked of settling. At some point, you get tired of only getting a fraction of someone you married. It got old. Especially as she started getting complacent and putting her other relationship before our marriage. Then, her other relationship and our marriage became a hybrid creation.

It wasn't that I wasn't saying it. It wasn't heard. My wife didn't want to hear it because, well, she probably assumed that I would demand that she end her relationship. Presumptuousness, in essence. I was tuned out because I wasn't saying the right thing. Those things included, "Yes, I want to continue being part of this poly family. Yes, I will accept your girlfriend." Maybe I should have jumped up and down on the furniture and screamed it, eh?

Initially, the good outweighed the bad, so I stuck it out. I had a wife and two children. I liked my life. It was good up until a certain point. Notice I didn't say loved. Was every moment of our lives filled with blissful joy, rainbows, and spinning around a campfire singing Kumbaya ? No. Come on now.

I've been dying to say this. This isn't in a hateful way, but I don't really give a damn if her girlfriend's life has to be restructured. That's her problem. I have enough to deal with in my marriage. Let alone an issue with her. She's a grown woman. She's not part of my family or any part of my future. The end.

I care about my kids well-being. I know if push came to shove, my wife would be alright. With or without me. She has someone else to fall back on, and well, she's an integral part of her life, so if I left, what difference would it make? She wouldn't have to deal with a husband who doesn't want to be part of any of this. She could find one who has no problem with it. You never want to do anything to hurt a loved one. I know that, and never would I ever do anything to intentionally hurt her or cause her pain.

 

[Magdlyn]

Metamour. I hate that bloody word. I slept with her. It felt like cheating. Why continue doing something that makes you feel like shit?

Metamour doesn't mean sex partner. Metamour means partner of your partner. If Si was your partner, we'd call her your partner. She's the gf of your wife, therefore your metamour. A metamour is someone you do not have romance or sex with. For a month or two, you and Si were partners. You and she and Ry experimented with being a full triad, even to the point of thinking about getting Si pregnant.

My 180 is within reason.

You may be telling yourself and us you're being reasonable, but we see you as emotional in this thread. Angry, disgusted, fed up. Hurt.

I never lied to my wife, or even to myself, for that matter. I knew she was polyamorous. I knew that meant compromising, being understanding, being tolerant, and making sacrifices. I grew out of it. I grew tired of being so accommodating, always compromising, always making sacrifices, and always being understanding. In return, my concerns were ignored and my say was undermined.

Why were your concerns ignored and undermined? Is Ry that clueless, or did you express your desires so mildly she didn't understand the depth of your feelings and needs? Since you told us you'd actually invite Si to stay for dinner (politely yet dishonestly, a social little white lie), and not tell her you wanted more time alone with Ry, I am guessing the latter.

I guess none of that matters.

It matters! Everyone's feelings matter, but as we've been saying, especially in poly relationships, or even more in mono/poly, your needs have to be clearly expressed. It's not fair to expect your partner, or her partner, to mind read.

For me, polyamory is not part of my vision anymore. I lived with it for years, and then over time, I questioned whether I wanted to live contently with occasional bursts of happiness for the rest of my life, or did I want pure and true happiness? It reeks of settling. At some point, you get tired of only getting a fraction of someone you married. It got old. Especially as she started getting complacent and putting her other relationship before our marriage. Then, her other relationship and our marriage became a hybrid creation. It wasn't that I wasn't saying it. It wasn't heard. My wife didn't want to hear it because well she probably assumed that I would demand that she end her relationship. Presumptuousness in essence. I was tuned out because I wasn't saying the right thing.

Well, I guess you could say, "I didn't speak up (and in fact said things I didn't really mean), or she tuned me out when I did speak up." We here can't know... That dynamic can be explored in therapy, and maybe, just maybe, if you tweak it, "this marriage can be saved."

Initially, the good outweighed the bad, so I stuck it out. I had a wife and two children. I liked my life. It was good up until a certain point. Notice I didn't say loved. Was every moment of our lives filled with blissful joy, rainbows, and spinning around a campfire singing Kumbaya ? No. Come on now.

Well, no one's life is, except maybe certain religious people who sit in a cave communing with their god non-stop, totally non-attached to the material plane. We all strive for happiness, pursue it even, and that is our right. Heck, it's in the US Constitution. I guess we all hope to be as happy as possible in an imperfect world. My bf actually states he is fine with mere contentment. Me, I like some ecstasy, although I am not in that state 24/7.

I've been dying to say this. This isn't in a hateful way, but I don't really give a damn if her girlfriend's life has to be restructured. That's her problem. I have enough to deal with in my marriage. Let alone an issue with her. She's a grown woman. She's not part of my family or any part of my future. The end.

Here are the kinds of words that tell us you're angry, bitter. That is not "reasonable," though not unacceptable either. However, your metamour, your wife's gf, is a part of your larger family.

My ex-husband's gf-- I don't see her much, but I do consider her a part of my extended family because my/our son (age 21) lives with my ex, and the gf lives nearby, and so they spend a good deal of time together. And your kids are so little, they consider Si their other mother.

I care about my kids' well-being. I know if push came to shove, my wife would be alright. With or without me. She has someone else to fall back on, and well, she's an integral part of her life, so if I left, what difference would it make?

Well, don't underestimate how much you mean to Ry. Poly people don't just take comfort in one lover when they lose another one. It hurts just as much to lose one as it does for a mono person.

She wouldn't have to deal with a husband who doesn't want to be part of any of this. She could find one who has no problem with it.

Perhaps, but she loves you. It's going to be painful if you break up.

You never want to do anything to hurt a loved one. I know that, and never would I ever do anything to intentionally hurt her or cause her pain.

And hopefully you will take action in such as way as to cause as little unintentional harm and pain as well, eh?

 

[ThatGirlInGray]

Metamour. I hate that bloody word.

Out of curiosity, why do you hate the word? It just means your partner's partner. It has nothing to do with sleeping with someone (I'd venture a guess that most metamours never sleep together.) I mean, it's not the greatest made-up word ever, but then neither is "polyamory." Mixing Greek and Latin roots!!

As for the rest of it, it certainly seems like your time alone been used well. The way you write now, it seems much calmer and matter-of-fact. Yes, if you have been saying it over time, but you weren't listened to, that isn't lying to yourself. I'm sorry it reached a point where you felt your only or best option was to leave (for now, anyway), but if Ry was not listening to you, or giving your relationship what you felt it needed, then I can certainly understand you feeling backed into a corner and lashing out.

I hope you guys are able to work together to find some sort of peaceable resolution.

 

[BoringGuy]

What would have happened if your spouse had not been accepting or on board with that idea? Would you have left, or would you have let them leave in order to pursuit your happiness?

I'll give you my answer to this, even though it sounds like it might be a rhetorical question. I considered this very thing before I brought up the topic with my Spouse after being together for... 9 years? My math isn't working right now.

First of all, monogamy was never something that was a big deal to me, and marriage wasn't that big a deal to my Spouse. We did that so we could have the legal-next-of-kin established, because I don't have any living relatives whom I trust to make decisions on my behalf should the need present itself, etc. So I didn't see it as some huge OMGBBQ-I-just-realized-i'm-poly-whoop-dee-doo-we-need-to-discuss-our-relationship event.

But I knew there were people from the past, that I hadn't seen for years, that might come back into my life, so I told Spouse about this, and they said, "So, you want to try an open relationship?" If they had said "No, I don't want any part of that," I would have said "Okay," and that would have been it. I am thankful that I have one good relationship, never mind two. Had Spouse responded with "No," then that would have established "real" monogamy, I guess. It isn't necessary to "practice" more than one relationship just because you can have a feeling for more than one person.

By the way, you do know what "metamour" means, right? It sounds like you might have it confused. It sounds like you think it means "mutual partner," like the "third" person in a triad, where all are involved with each other. Is that what you think it means, or not?

 

[BoringGuy]

Out of curiosity, why do you hate the word? It just means your partner's partner. It has nothing to do with sleeping with someone. (I'd venture a guess that most metamours never sleep together). I mean, it's not the greatest made-up word ever, but then neither is "polyamory". Mixing Greek and Latin roots!!

By the way, you do know what "metamour" means, right? It sounds like you might have it confused. It sounds like you think it means "mutual partner," like the "third" person in a triad, where all are involved with each other. Is that what you think it means, or not?

HA! I was typing the same thing as you were. Jinx!

ETA: Mags too!

 

[YouAreHere]

Out of curiosity, why do you hate the word? It just means your partner's partner. It has nothing to do with sleeping with someone.

From my own introspection (not to speak for Matt, but I tend to not use the word, either), I think it's partly because of the way it sounds. "Metamour" implies a relationship with my partner's other partner by virtue of their relationship. It has no bearing on what my relationship to that person is. And if I don't feel a personal relationship with that person, I'm very hesitant to use words that imply such. It's the difference between calling a person "My sister-in-law" or "X's sister," One term does a better job of keeping a person (emotionally) at arm's length, if you don't feel a connection (or if you feel animosity).

 

[BoringGuy]

From my own introspection, I think it's partly because of the way it sounds. "Metamour" implies a relationship with my partner's other partner by virtue of their relationship. It has no bearing on what my relationship to that person is. And if I don't feel a personal relationship with that person, I'm very hesitant to use words that imply such. It's the difference between calling a person "My sister-in-law" or "X's sister." One term does a better job of keeping a person (emotionally) at arm's length if you don't feel a connection (or if you feel animosity).

I don't think that was what happened in this case, but I know what you are talking about. "My father's wife" is not "my stepmother," because I never had that kind of relationship with her. I don't dislike her. In fact, I like her better than my father, but I just never had a parent-child thing going on with her.

 

[ThatGirlInGray]

Yeah, I don't tend to use "metamour" much either, for basically the same reason. MC and TGIB are friends in their own right, and will hopefully be roommates in the future. That's enough labels for me. I can see thinking the word is a little silly, but hating it just seemed a bit strong. And it can be a nice shortcut, instead of "my boyfriend's other girlfriend" if it's a situation where I don't know her or don't have my own relationship with her.