You have a set of rules. Do you have a set of consequences?
- Thread starter Elorahd
- Start date
JaneQSmythe
Well-known member
What happens in any relationship when the "rules" (boundaries, etc.) are broken? You either work it out ... or you break up.
One of the things about poly is that it requires so much communication that the rules/boundaries are often explicit, while in mono relationships there are "rules" too, but they are can be just understood or implied, and when they are broken it becomes an argument.
Some rules/boundaries are hard limits - one strike and you're out. Others are negotiable under certain circumstances.
We have a rule-- "condoms for sex outside of the three of us." If someone were to break rule, first of all, we would have a long discussion about trust, health and safety. Then we would decide how to proceed. Perhaps the "outside" person can provide negative STI test results.
Perhaps the person who broke the rule is genuinely upset and we believe their promises that it will never happen again (unless the rule is re-negotiated to include the 4th person), in which case trust can be rebuilt and the consequences are the bad feelings that ensued.
Perhaps the "outside" person is unavailable, or declines to get tested, in which case, the consequence might be that we all start using condoms with each other. If the person who broke the rule says "That's a dumb rule, anyway. I'm not going to follow it," then the consequence might be that we break up.
We actually only have this one rule, so I had to get my mileage out of it as an example.
I have personal boundaries as to things that I will or won't tolerate or do, but they aren't rules, because they aren't things that other people had to agree to to be set in place. They are:
- I won't be in a relationship with someone who is physically abusive.
- I won't be in a relationship with someone who disrespects me as a person, but if I feel disrespected I will talk to the person and see if this is something that is fixable.
- Etc. I could write a long list, but it comes down to what I consider to be appropriate behavior from someone I am involved with, not really poly-relevant.
We are all very open and transparent about our relationships and there is an expectation that if something is developing, then we will keep the others in the loop. But this is not a rule. We all just happen to agree that this would work best for us.
We have explicit permission to share information amongst the three of us. I.e., we don't tend to have secrets, which doesn't mean that there is an expectation that we share every single thing we talk about, just that we don't have to avoid talking about it. If one of us were to develop another relationship, then that person could opt in to the open sharing idea, or they could come to some other agreement that the person they were involved with was comfortable with.
Gosh, that was convoluted. I'm trying to say that the way that we have chosen to share information is not necessarily a requirement for anyone else that gets involved with one of us. That relationship gets to be negotiated by the people involved.
Don't know if that helps.
One of the things about poly is that it requires so much communication that the rules/boundaries are often explicit, while in mono relationships there are "rules" too, but they are can be just understood or implied, and when they are broken it becomes an argument.
Some rules/boundaries are hard limits - one strike and you're out. Others are negotiable under certain circumstances.
We have a rule-- "condoms for sex outside of the three of us." If someone were to break rule, first of all, we would have a long discussion about trust, health and safety. Then we would decide how to proceed. Perhaps the "outside" person can provide negative STI test results.
Perhaps the person who broke the rule is genuinely upset and we believe their promises that it will never happen again (unless the rule is re-negotiated to include the 4th person), in which case trust can be rebuilt and the consequences are the bad feelings that ensued.
Perhaps the "outside" person is unavailable, or declines to get tested, in which case, the consequence might be that we all start using condoms with each other. If the person who broke the rule says "That's a dumb rule, anyway. I'm not going to follow it," then the consequence might be that we break up.
We actually only have this one rule, so I had to get my mileage out of it as an example.
I have personal boundaries as to things that I will or won't tolerate or do, but they aren't rules, because they aren't things that other people had to agree to to be set in place. They are:
- I won't be in a relationship with someone who is physically abusive.
- I won't be in a relationship with someone who disrespects me as a person, but if I feel disrespected I will talk to the person and see if this is something that is fixable.
- Etc. I could write a long list, but it comes down to what I consider to be appropriate behavior from someone I am involved with, not really poly-relevant.
We are all very open and transparent about our relationships and there is an expectation that if something is developing, then we will keep the others in the loop. But this is not a rule. We all just happen to agree that this would work best for us.
We have explicit permission to share information amongst the three of us. I.e., we don't tend to have secrets, which doesn't mean that there is an expectation that we share every single thing we talk about, just that we don't have to avoid talking about it. If one of us were to develop another relationship, then that person could opt in to the open sharing idea, or they could come to some other agreement that the person they were involved with was comfortable with.
Gosh, that was convoluted. I'm trying to say that the way that we have chosen to share information is not necessarily a requirement for anyone else that gets involved with one of us. That relationship gets to be negotiated by the people involved.
Don't know if that helps.
Last edited:
I was asking because I'm contemplating getting into a relationship with someone who wants to try poly but hasn't done it before. I am a mono, I guess. I have no desire or intention of seeing anyone else. I want to try this so I am able to spend more time with him. I believe there will need to be a lot of rules on my part. At the moment, the only consequence for breaking a rule would seem to be to break up. But this is a guy whom I could see breaking a rule to passively-aggressively make me break up with him. And I'm not having that shit. So I wondered if there weren't other more creative consequences that would be effective for curbing unwanted behavior.
JaneQSmythe
Well-known member
Meh, I don't know about getting into a relationship with someone that you already see as being able to break a rule "to passively-aggressively make me break up with him."
What rules do you anticipate that you will need on your part?
- Thursday is our night - no texts/phone calls from others. (Doable.)
- I don't want to hear about x/y/x - you have to tell me about p/d/q. (Requires the other person to be willing to share p/d/q with you.)
- You have to love me best. (Not controllable.)
- Etc.
I'm trying to come up with consequences that don't punish you as much as they punish him. I.e., "If you don't X, then we won't get together for our regular date," or aren't just unhealthy, "If you do Z, no sex for a week." I think a relationship based on punishing bad behavior is probably doomed from the start. You might try rewards instead-- "If you do Y, and avoid doing X for one week, I will make you dinner on Saturday."
Ideally, one doesn't have to punish/reward their partner. Each person wants to do the things that makes the other happy and avoid doing the things that makes the other unhappy. Learning the other person's "Love Languages" may help in this regard.
Sorry I don't have more insight for you.
I'm trying to come at this more like how you provide consequences for children. Not necessarily punishment but something that's motivating enough for them not to want to break the rules because they would be missing out on something they enjoy very much.
The boundaries I've come up with so far:
I most definitely don't want to know/hear anything about other girls he's seeing. I really have no interest in people, so I'm not curious in that sense. I'm focused and intense, and the thought of having feelings for two people at once would make my head explode. When I'm with him, I want to feel like the only one he wants to be with. I want quality connection and I want to feel special.
But here's a scenario I could see happening: what if he calls me by the wrong name? What if he gets our dates or preferences mixed up? That would ruin my little bubble and hurt my feelings. My instinct tells me a good punch in the face would be appropriate. But violence is not the answer. I would like a consequence that he would feel enough that he would never do that again.
There are more I'll list later.
The boundaries I've come up with so far:
I most definitely don't want to know/hear anything about other girls he's seeing. I really have no interest in people, so I'm not curious in that sense. I'm focused and intense, and the thought of having feelings for two people at once would make my head explode. When I'm with him, I want to feel like the only one he wants to be with. I want quality connection and I want to feel special.
But here's a scenario I could see happening: what if he calls me by the wrong name? What if he gets our dates or preferences mixed up? That would ruin my little bubble and hurt my feelings. My instinct tells me a good punch in the face would be appropriate. But violence is not the answer. I would like a consequence that he would feel enough that he would never do that again.
There are more I'll list later.
This is a guy whose never done this before but is interested in having multiple emotionally connected relationships at the same time....long term. From all the research I've done so far, I haven't seen this setup. There usually seems to be a primary relationship where there's a lot of trust and openness. He and I have only spent two weekends together and while we feel very connected, we just haven't spent enough time together to have that kind of trust. Is this even doable from that standpoint, or is it pretty important to have that primary relationship?
JaneQSmythe
Well-known member
That would be a DADT (don't ask, don't tell) agreement. It apparently works to some degree for some people. You basically agree that you won't ask questions that require him to choose between lying and disclosing info that you don't want to hear, and he won't volunteer such info. (You could try a search on "DADT" for more info.)
I can't help you there. I've apparently called Dude by the wrong name on numerous occasions. (I remember noting it once.) He decided to take it as compliment. Dude gets my preferences mixed up with his ex's all the time. I just correct him. He asks MrS when he can't remember. You might want to check out this thread where we discussed this very thing.
Last edited:
He took it as a compliment? Why? Doesn't that mean you're thinking about the other guy when you're with him? Seems like that would be insulting... and marginalizing.
I can understand slipping up and calling someone by your ex's name, though. Sometimes that muscle memory is hard to undo.
opalescent
Active member
I am horrified. Why would you want to treat a romantic partner like a child? What are you going to do, spank him? He's not going to stay with you because you give him little rewards for "being good." He will stay with you because he wants to be around you. If he doesn't want to be with you, nothing you do or say will change that. You need to stop with the controlling rules and punishments. This is not an adult relationship. Don't try polyamory yet. Figure out how to be in an adult relationship first.
He does not inspire trust in you for a romantic relationship. But you want to date him in a polyamorous context when you are mono anyway... just so you are able to spend more time with him? To me, that is baffling.
Could it be emotionally and mentally safer for you to spend time with him just as a pal instead, and not as his romantic interest/dating partner?It's like you want a lot of rules to help keep you safe with him in a romantic context, but you worry he's not going to honor your boundaries.
Maybe it is easier to just accept that while you are attracted to him, he's just not a safe person for you to be with as a romantic partner, because he does not inspire trust. You seem to want to be in a mono relationship, and he doesn't want to do that right now. He wants to experiment with polyamory.
So, how about just friend-zoning him, so you can enjoy his company more safely, and be free of all these worries and anxieties, since you are an emotionally sensitive person? You do not sound compatible to me, and you aren't even out of the starting gate.
I mean this kindly-- these things are not boundaries. They are stragegies to allow you to pretend you are in a mono relationship. You could take better care of yourself by choosing dating partners more carefully.
You don't want to see STD screens and know they use birth control and safer-sex practices? Ack.
You know this about yourself, but you are dating a man who wants polyamory, which means he could have another sweetie besides you. Well, you are signing up for a head explosion, then. Why do this?
So what are you doing for yourself to minimize getting hurt? You're choosing to date this man anyway, putting yourself at emotional risk that you do not want. Baffling.
You'd rather be in a "fantasy bubble" than deal with the reality that if you date a poly man you will be in a poly network with him.
What if his other GF gets run over by a bus and he is called to the ER? That gonna pop your bubble too? Why sign up for this emotional hoo-hah if you do not want to deal in this?
Again, this doesn't sound compatible. You don't seem willing to accept that yet. It's like you are trying to bargain with yourself to make it work.
You could: be friends. There's nothing wrong with having a good friend. Or date someone who can offer you more than a "fantasy bubble" of the model you actually want; someone who can actually give you the model you actually want; not a fantasy of it. Just it.
There's nothing wrong with monoamory. There is something wrong with you putting yourself in the line of fire, running around creating all these "protections against getting hurt," when the simplest thing would be to date someone who is more aligned with what you seek.
Galagirl
Last edited:
NutBusterX
New member
Another example might be: his OSO is in crisis and blowing up his phone on "your time." Is that consequence-worthy?
Or he is in crisis in his relationship with his OSO and needs someone to talk to (you) on your time. Is that consequence-worthy?
These are real-world instances you need to consider before entering a polyship, especially having stated that you are not so sure about his skill level in this kind of a situation.
My guess is that without some hard introspection, there will be some consequences or fallout, be they planned or not.
Big feelings, big bruises... That is a fact.
Last edited:
We've already crossed the friend-zone line. I wouldn't just be able to "hang out" with someone I'm attracted to. That holds no use for me anyway. I'm there for the intensity and connection, and for me that happens through physicality.
The trust is not there yet because we haven't had enough time to forge that. This is all new.
I'm not afraid he's not going to honor my boundaries because he doesn't care. I do trust his intentions. But he's an engineer, a programmer, and he processes some things very differently than I do. We went to see a movie the other day. He confessed that he'll remember seeing the movie but probably not who he saw it with. Until I get used to that, I'm pretty sure I will have a visceral reaction if he tries to talk about some movie "we" saw, when he actually saw it with another date.
And I never said I wanted to treat him like a child. I have a background in childcare and so that's where my mind falls back to. I'm trying to take care of myself in all this and make sure I can participate but still hold on to my self respect. Does that make sense?
The trust is not there yet because we haven't had enough time to forge that. This is all new.
I'm not afraid he's not going to honor my boundaries because he doesn't care. I do trust his intentions. But he's an engineer, a programmer, and he processes some things very differently than I do. We went to see a movie the other day. He confessed that he'll remember seeing the movie but probably not who he saw it with. Until I get used to that, I'm pretty sure I will have a visceral reaction if he tries to talk about some movie "we" saw, when he actually saw it with another date.
And I never said I wanted to treat him like a child. I have a background in childcare and so that's where my mind falls back to. I'm trying to take care of myself in all this and make sure I can participate but still hold on to my self respect. Does that make sense?
Yes. Those are all things I've thought about (and he hasn't). But I'm a very thorough person and don't want to step into something I haven't fully explored. And that's why I'm here asking you guys how you deal with those situations.
Yes, it makes sense. And part of self respect is not getting yourself in over your head into situations that are not healthy for you.
If you want to take on dating him anyway, I would suggest going back to the other post I wrote with him and reading all those articles link together first. Like taking a serious risk assessment before getting in deeper and before deciding that you do want to take the dating risks that come with dating him.
If you decide yes, make your agreements, give it a whirl for a period of experimental time, and at the end of that time, if things are just too nuts, let it go.
Just be careful. You are at the starting gate with a huge amount of hurdles. Intensity in loving, having passion... they don't have to come with obstacles like this. Loving someone is not supposed to be stressful, anxious hard work. YKWIM?
If you do decide you want to try, do you best to minimize dings. Talk it out.
We seem to be online at the same time and crossposting, so I am going to stop at this one for now.
GL!
Galagirl
If you want to take on dating him anyway, I would suggest going back to the other post I wrote with him and reading all those articles link together first. Like taking a serious risk assessment before getting in deeper and before deciding that you do want to take the dating risks that come with dating him.
If you decide yes, make your agreements, give it a whirl for a period of experimental time, and at the end of that time, if things are just too nuts, let it go.
Just be careful. You are at the starting gate with a huge amount of hurdles. Intensity in loving, having passion... they don't have to come with obstacles like this. Loving someone is not supposed to be stressful, anxious hard work. YKWIM?
If you do decide you want to try, do you best to minimize dings. Talk it out.
We seem to be online at the same time and crossposting, so I am going to stop at this one for now.
GL!
Galagirl
Last edited:
IndieSolo
Active member
Then why would you consider being with him in the first place, if that's the read you get on him? I mean, really, why bother? There are plenty of other fish in the sea!
I'd suggest you really haven't done enough "research," if that is your perception.
Look, it just sounds all around like this isn't going to work. You want him to pretend you're the only one, even if he has other relationships, and you think it's insulting to even think about someone else. Your rules are really all about protecting yourself from even knowing he's with other people. Basically, you want blinders on. To be honest, you sound too immature to manage poly. Do yourself a favor and don't go there.
Last edited:
Something you should know about me: there aren't a lot of fish in the sea for me. I am a misanthrope who finds it extremely hard to meet people I connect with and also respect. I haven't met someone I've wanted to date in ten years. So is it any wonder I want to try and see if this works? I'm trying to be open here. I thought I would at least get some props for that. I'm also trying to protect my own interests. Isn't that what everybody does?
And somebody misunderstood me earlier. I was saying that if I had intense feelings for two people at the same time, my head would explode. I wasn't saying that about someone else. The point is, I have trouble empathizing with the lifestyle. But that doesn't mean I can't accept it.
And please don't call me immature just because my preferences don't lean your way. It sounds like a lot of people on here can't handle monogamous relationships and you don't hear me putting them down.
And somebody misunderstood me earlier. I was saying that if I had intense feelings for two people at the same time, my head would explode. I wasn't saying that about someone else. The point is, I have trouble empathizing with the lifestyle. But that doesn't mean I can't accept it.
And please don't call me immature just because my preferences don't lean your way. It sounds like a lot of people on here can't handle monogamous relationships and you don't hear me putting them down.
IndieSolo
Active member
It doesn't actually seem like you do respect him, though. For example, you think he will pull some bullshit move to passive-aggressively "make you" break up with him, and you want to make some rules to prevent that.
When you really respect and trust a partner, you simply let them know what your own personal boundaries are, which is not the same as laying down the law to keep someone in check.
Well, sure, but you seem so averse to poly in the first place, that it sounds doomed before you even start. It just looks like you are going to want to make demands that insulate you from any kind of indication that he would have/be with anyone else. Most people, whether poly or mono or whatever, know that more talk and communication is better for a relationship than keeping secrets and pretending certain things aren't actually happening.
I wasn't putting you down. I was calling it like I saw it. It is not an insult to be at a certain level of maturity. Not everyone is on the same place. Being involved in a poly situation requires lots of communication and maturity to be able to deal with all its possible challenges. Some people are more mature in relationships than others. Being mature in relationships just means you have the ability to make reasonable, rational choices, can act autonomously, and will step up to take 100% responsibility for your part in any relationship.
I don't think you're going to have an easy time of it. This is what you wrote that sounded immature to me:
Last edited:
LovingRadiance
Active member
I cringe over the same points other people have noted.
But yes, we have consequences to our rules. Like, if you don't use a condom outside of our V, you lose the right to fluid-bond in the V until such time as we all feel safe that the issues of safer sex have been addressed.
However, we don't have rules that can be inadvertently broken, like not calling someone by the correct name or mis-remembering who did what, where, and with whom.
Nor do we have rules that create unhealthy dynamics/patterns for any relationship, such as not being free to prioritize whichever relationship needs to be at a given time, by taking calls in an emergency or whatever from another partner at an inconvenient time.
Finally, we accept that in order to have a full relationship, we have to be able to be open and honest with one another about all of who we are, that means we are going to come across frequent reminders of other loves and those other loves, as well.
But yes, we have consequences to our rules. Like, if you don't use a condom outside of our V, you lose the right to fluid-bond in the V until such time as we all feel safe that the issues of safer sex have been addressed.
However, we don't have rules that can be inadvertently broken, like not calling someone by the correct name or mis-remembering who did what, where, and with whom.
Nor do we have rules that create unhealthy dynamics/patterns for any relationship, such as not being free to prioritize whichever relationship needs to be at a given time, by taking calls in an emergency or whatever from another partner at an inconvenient time.
Finally, we accept that in order to have a full relationship, we have to be able to be open and honest with one another about all of who we are, that means we are going to come across frequent reminders of other loves and those other loves, as well.