BoringGuy
Banned
Thank you thank you thank you thank you i can't thank you enough oh god you took the words right out of my guts now i don't have to.
tl;dr New friends, new enemies, different day.
You have a set of rules. Do you have a set of consequences?
- Thread starter Elorahd
- Start date
Thank you thank you thank you thank you i can't thank you enough oh god you took the words right out of my guts now i don't have to.
tl;dr New friends, new enemies, different day.
JaneQSmythe
Well-known member
JaneQSmythe said:
Well, I've been having sex with my husband for 20 years. His name had become part of the lexicon of incoherent babble that escapes me during sex like "Oh, God." or "Yes, Yes." So I think Dude decided to take it as a compliment in that he had me so worked up that I didn't know WHAT I was saying. (I should have been clearer that this was in the context of sex.)
YouAreHere
Well-known member
You want to know how some of us handle this type of stuff... In the beginning of my relationship, I was poly-friendly, ready to get in with my eyes open, except I had no idea, emotionally, what that meant. Mea culpa. In the beginning, I did have a hard time dealing with the cute, gushy stories ("She met me in the airport, tripped like a little duckling, and fell into my arms!"), and had to ask for a moratorium on them.
However, these things change... That one actually changed pretty quickly when I realized that, coming from a background where we were very close friends and could talk about anything, it felt very, very wrong to ask him to not talk about things with me.
We're about two years into our V, and many of those things are non-issues now. I needed the time and reassurance that it wasn't going to lead to him gushing over his OSO and leaving me. I needed the experience to see what really did hurt, and what didn't, and I needed to do the self-introspection to see why things hurt.
Some things are still on the "hurt" list. The three of us (me, my partner, and his OSO) get together and talk about them, and find a manageable compromise. What I try to never do is say, "Well, that's it, then," and ignore the rest of the self-work that needs to happen to examine why, or if there's a piece of it that I can work on to make it easier for me.
How we handle it is very specific for each of us, I'm afraid. You may get some responses that can help you, but in the end, it's like having a pile of self-help books that all tell you different things. You have a starting point, but you still have to find the one (if there is one in that pile) that works for you.
NYCindie wrote: When you really respect and trust a partner, you simply let them know what your own personal boundaries are, which is not the same as laying down the law to keep someone in check.
True. The one "rule" we have in the wider relationship is safe sex and STD results for any new partners. Other things that have come up have been broached as my own issues/boundaries (some of them deal-breakers), but never as "you must do these things"-- I've said that I need <x> to be able to stay in the relationship. If he can't provide <x>, then yes, it'll stink, but better to know that and make the break, rather than try to mold this Bundt cake into a loaf pan. It's not always a clean distinction between rule/ultimatum and boundary, but for me, the test is, does the person feel controlled and bullied into making that decision, or are they making it because they want to?
Anyway, it's good that you're thinking about this. Just be aware that thinking is not feeling, and the brain and heart may not always be on the same page. Good luck!
However, these things change... That one actually changed pretty quickly when I realized that, coming from a background where we were very close friends and could talk about anything, it felt very, very wrong to ask him to not talk about things with me.
We're about two years into our V, and many of those things are non-issues now. I needed the time and reassurance that it wasn't going to lead to him gushing over his OSO and leaving me. I needed the experience to see what really did hurt, and what didn't, and I needed to do the self-introspection to see why things hurt.
Some things are still on the "hurt" list. The three of us (me, my partner, and his OSO) get together and talk about them, and find a manageable compromise. What I try to never do is say, "Well, that's it, then," and ignore the rest of the self-work that needs to happen to examine why, or if there's a piece of it that I can work on to make it easier for me.
How we handle it is very specific for each of us, I'm afraid. You may get some responses that can help you, but in the end, it's like having a pile of self-help books that all tell you different things. You have a starting point, but you still have to find the one (if there is one in that pile) that works for you.
NYCindie wrote: When you really respect and trust a partner, you simply let them know what your own personal boundaries are, which is not the same as laying down the law to keep someone in check.
True. The one "rule" we have in the wider relationship is safe sex and STD results for any new partners. Other things that have come up have been broached as my own issues/boundaries (some of them deal-breakers), but never as "you must do these things"-- I've said that I need <x> to be able to stay in the relationship. If he can't provide <x>, then yes, it'll stink, but better to know that and make the break, rather than try to mold this Bundt cake into a loaf pan. It's not always a clean distinction between rule/ultimatum and boundary, but for me, the test is, does the person feel controlled and bullied into making that decision, or are they making it because they want to?
Anyway, it's good that you're thinking about this. Just be aware that thinking is not feeling, and the brain and heart may not always be on the same page. Good luck!
You want to know how some of us handle this type of stuff... In the beginning of my relationship, I was poly-friendly, ready to get in with my eyes open, except I had no idea, emotionally, what that meant. Mea culpa. In the beginning, I did have a hard time dealing with the cute, gushy stories ("She met me in the airport, tripped like a little duckling, and fell into my arms!"), and had to ask for a moratorium on them.
However, these things change... That one actually changed pretty quickly when I realized that, coming from a background where we were very close friends and could talk about anything, it felt very, very wrong to ask him to not talk about things with me.
We're about two years into our V, and many of those things are non-issues now. I needed the time and reassurance that it wasn't going to lead to him gushing over his OSO and leaving me. I needed the experience to see what really did hurt, and what didn't, and I needed to do the self-introspection to see WHY things hurt.
Some things are still on the "hurt" list. The three of us (me, my partner, and his OSO) get together and talk about them, and find a manageable compromise. What I try to never do is say, "Well, that's it, then," and ignore the rest of the self-work that needs to happen to examine why, or if there's a piece of it that I can work on to make it easier for me.
How we handle it is very specific for each of us, I'm afraid. You may get some responses that can help you, but in the end, it's like having a pile of self-help books that all tell you different things. You have a starting point, but you still have to find the one (if there is one in that pile) that works for you.
NYCindie wrote: When you really respect and trust a partner, you simply let them know what your own personal boundaries are which is not the same as laying down the law to keep someone in check.
True. The one "rule" we have in the wider relationship is safe sex and STD results for any new partners. Other things that have come up have been broached as my own issues/boundaries (some of them deal-breakers), but never as "you must do these things" - I've said that I need <x> to be able to stay in the relationship. If he can't provide <x>, then yes, it'll stink, but better to know that and make the break, rather than try to mold this Bundt cake into a loaf pan. It's not always a clean distinction between rule/ultimatum and boundary, but for me, the test is, does the person feel controlled and bullied into making that decision, or are they making it because they want to?
Anyway, it's good that you're thinking about this. Just be aware that thinking is not feeling, and the brain and heart may not always be on the same page.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! This is what I was looking for! That is exactly how I'm feeling.
I'm feeling condemnation from some people because he and I aren't being completely open and honest and there's not complete trust there. Well, guess what? We're not there yet. Again, I keep hearing stories where poly started off with two people being in a long-term relationship. That is not my situation!
And as far as maturity goes, I'm not at all convinced that he's mature enough to handle this. From everything I'm reading, this seems to take an extraordinary amount of trust and work from all parties involved. And I think all he's been thinking about is that, wheee, he'll get to date other people! Without addressing the fact that this might very well take much more responsibility than just dating one person.
As far as trusting him goes, there are certain things I trust about him, because I've watched him and he is consistent in those things. But this is completely new territory for both of us. I know all too well that people will say one thing and end up doing another. That's why self-awareness is such an important component of a relationship for me. So far, he seems decently self-aware. But he's also admitted to me that he's let certain unhappiness carry on in other relationships because he wasn't really willing to look at his part in it just yet. That, I don't trust, and whether he's poly or not, that's something I would like to avoid, if at all possible.
Just my two cents, and probably not very valuable as I don't have any practical experience to share, but if he's interested in exploring open relationships and polyamory, why not encourage him to come on here and do some reading and ask questions if he has them? It might give him a better idea of what you *both* would be getting into...
LovingRadiance
Active member
I don't judge you for not starting out as a primary couple.
As I said on one of your threads: I have been with my boyfriend for 20 years (variety of forms to our relationship, sexual involvement started 18 years ago and has come and gone over the years). I have been with my husband for 15 years. There were 12 years of drama-infused bullshit (much of it my fault) before we became poly.
Can't really say there was a "primary" relationship first. I have kid with both. We've all lived together as roommates the last 10 years.
What I do see is that trust is a necessary component to making poly functional, and it's ok if you aren't there yet, but I wouldn't take steps to creating a committed relationship of any sort with each other (mono, open, poly, etc.) until there is trust. Because without it, the drama is just so damned dramatic.
As I said on one of your threads: I have been with my boyfriend for 20 years (variety of forms to our relationship, sexual involvement started 18 years ago and has come and gone over the years). I have been with my husband for 15 years. There were 12 years of drama-infused bullshit (much of it my fault) before we became poly.
Can't really say there was a "primary" relationship first. I have kid with both. We've all lived together as roommates the last 10 years.
What I do see is that trust is a necessary component to making poly functional, and it's ok if you aren't there yet, but I wouldn't take steps to creating a committed relationship of any sort with each other (mono, open, poly, etc.) until there is trust. Because without it, the drama is just so damned dramatic.
LovingRadiance
Active member
Also, I think you are mistaking people's experienced "OH DEAR, red flag red flag" responses as judgement. Even if they don't word it the way you want, you've made it clear you aren't really sure you want to do this. That message made it through clear as day, and everyone is responding to that question with, "No, do not do it," followed by, "Here are the red flags that trigger me to say do not do it."
This is what I'm hearing the most and sounds the most important. Communication and trust. It sounds like it would be prudent for us to very consciously try and cultivate those.
So, are you saying not to do this because neither one of us has done it before, or because he's not perfect at relationships?
I am not condemning you. For me, trust is built up over time by being open and honest. Now you may not want to talk about all your emotionally vulnerable issues from day one, but basics like:
The answers to these questions are part of the dating process. You have to be open and honest about them near the start, if nothing else, for your own time management. No point in investing time and energy into dating partners that are just not compatible with the kind of dating experience you are seeking.
I ended up marrying BF1 over the fullness of time. But I was a single, and BF1 and BF2 were singles. I just put this out there straight up to each.
There, open, honest and out there. Not everyone is comfortable operating that way, but that's what works for me.
BF1 was up for it straight off. BF2, not so much. We agreed to stay friends, but then he kept coming around and finally said he wanted to try it on. So it became what it was for a time until it had to end. I am sharing that to tell you that not everyone starts out coupled in polyamory.
Right now I am not seeking, but if/when I get there again, it would be from a coupled starting point. So I don't think it matters too much about the dating status at the starting point.
I think knowing your own self, and knowing what you are seeking matter more. I encourage you to disclose those things to your potential dating partner, open and honestly. Ask for his dance card in return so you can know his desires.
HTH,
GG
- WHO is in this relationship? (Just you two? Others? How many others? How big is the polymath here? Where is the polysaturation point for each player?)
- WHAT kind of relationship model are you after here? (There are many ways to be "open.")
- WHEN is this relationship happening? (Standing date nights with multiple partners? Whoever asks first?)
- WHERE is this relationship happening? (LDR? Local? Are we poly-dating and "out," or not?)
- HOW do we agree to be together? HOW do we expect to be treated and treat each other? HOW do we communicate and do conflict resolution when it arises? HOW do we want to break up if that should arise?
- WHY do we want to be together? (Just for dating fun? Building towards marriage? Some other thing?)
The answers to these questions are part of the dating process. You have to be open and honest about them near the start, if nothing else, for your own time management. No point in investing time and energy into dating partners that are just not compatible with the kind of dating experience you are seeking.
I ended up marrying BF1 over the fullness of time. But I was a single, and BF1 and BF2 were singles. I just put this out there straight up to each.
"I like you. I want to date you. I am NOT exclusive right now. Here's my who, what, when, where, why, how. What's yours? Do you want to be with me?"
There, open, honest and out there. Not everyone is comfortable operating that way, but that's what works for me.
BF1 was up for it straight off. BF2, not so much. We agreed to stay friends, but then he kept coming around and finally said he wanted to try it on. So it became what it was for a time until it had to end. I am sharing that to tell you that not everyone starts out coupled in polyamory.
Right now I am not seeking, but if/when I get there again, it would be from a coupled starting point. So I don't think it matters too much about the dating status at the starting point.
I think knowing your own self, and knowing what you are seeking matter more. I encourage you to disclose those things to your potential dating partner, open and honestly. Ask for his dance card in return so you can know his desires.
HTH,
GG
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This is great. Exactly the kind of guideline I need. I sent him the link about the different types of relationships. He had no idea there were so many! LOL.
I am like you. I would be very straight up about my situation. But we all have different personalities and things we're going to be comfortable with. Have you ever known someone who was more shy or withdrawn and seen how they dealt with starting a new poly relationship?
I am like you. I would be very straight up about my situation. But we all have different personalities and things we're going to be comfortable with. Have you ever known someone who was more shy or withdrawn and seen how they dealt with starting a new poly relationship?
Emm
Stealth Mod
A little bit of column A and a little bit of column B, but mostly because you keep saying, over and over, things that boil down to "I don't want to be poly."
If you were on a cooking site and told everyone that you don't like apples, had a mild allergic reaction to them and might react violently if you found apple in your food, would you be surprised when people tried to steer you away from trying their recipe for apple pie?
If you don't want to be poly, don't sign up for a poly relationship. You know what you'd be getting into with this guy, and it's not fair to either of you if you try to pretend you're ok with it when you're not. In your other thread, you complained that he hadn't asked you to be in a poly relationship with him, despite the fact that the two of you had been discussing it at length prior to getting cozy together. He had been upfront with you. You were willfully misunderstanding him. If it wasn't deliberate, then I don't know how you can claim extraordinary self-awareness in all other areas and such a massive blind spot right there.
Are you talking about you being shy, your potential being shy, or both?
My spouse was/is shy. I just gave it to him straight up back then when he was a potential interest of mine. He went from that, to dating partner, to steady BF, to husband over time.
If shyness is a problem for either of you or both of you, you could spend time working on key interpersonal skills. Maybe add that to the list of links to review together. Shyness is fine,. Maybe you like lower-key things in life or are introverted, but things need to be put out there in the dating "show and tell" time. Things like, "Here's the stuff I bring to the table that I'm good at, my strengths. Here's what I'm not so hot at, my weaknesses. What's yours?"
I don't see how anyone can build a solid relationship with Lego bricks that are kept hidden. Everyone could dump the Lego on the table and see what they have to hand to build something with to start, what might need to be grown or fortified later, etc.
You don't have to have the world solve from the starting gate, but you could proceed with intent to build something solid over time, not go at it all wonky from lack of disclosure.
Hang in there,
Galagirl
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I'm talking about him being shy. He approaches people very carefully. I'm just concerned if he takes too long to tell potential partners about his poly intentions, things could get very messy and they could get hurt.
Like how he approached me with it... we were just talking as friends. I had no idea he was romantically interested in me. I was trying to be supportive and understanding of this new way of dating he wanted to try, as a friend. We were talking in abstracts and theories, turning it around in our heads. Not once did he ever indicate, verbally, that he was interested in me trying this with him. He's incredibly subtle about stuff like this. He thinks he's being assertive, but it's not at all clear. This led to our first argument. It was rather tame, but a shock to me, nonetheless.
So I'm wondering if that's how he's going to approach it with other women, and if that would cause ripples in the other relationships, or just problems in general. I have plenty of ideas of things he could work on to make all this a little smoother, but I don't want to be too bossy, aggressive or overbearing. It think he's got to figure out this stuff for himself.
IndieSolo
Active member
You manage your relationship with him and let him manage his relationships. Don't worry about how he approaches other women or asks them out. That's his business.
Emm
Stealth Mod
In that case, substitute "In a poly relationship" for each instance where I said "poly" in my previous post. Yes, there are many mono people happily involved in poly relationships. It doesn't sound like you'd be one of them.
Reading your reply to GG doesn't clarify the situation—assuming by "the situation" you mean his failure to spell it out in words of two syllables or less that the conversation about how he wants a poly relationship, followed by the two of you getting romantic, meant that he thought he'd conveyed the fact that a relationship with him would be a poly one. It says to me that you were hearing only what you wanted to hear. I don't think he could have spelled it out any more clearly.
Effective communication requires that the listener actually listens, not just that the speaker is clear in their words.
Let him deal with his problems. Everyone is responsible for their own well-being. Those other dating partners can deal with their emotional baggage, he can deal in his, you can deal in yours.
If you are worried he's stringing them along or creating a "cheating" situation here, maybe ask him for an agreement to meet your need for it to be on the level you both can deal with.
Maybe you are fine being mono in a mono-poly thing, but just not with him and his type of polyshipping. Figure it out.
You manage your relationship with him. A portion of that may include providing him with nurturing and support, so there is a grey area of discernment there.
Maybe you give unconditional support of the, "Oh, poor baby! There, there!" type if he gets "run over by a bus." But you won't do "Oh, poor baby! There, there!" support at all if he plans to "rob a bank" and the heist doesn't go well. (I'm joking to keep things light, not to minimize how you feel.)
For dating, maybe you don't feel like saying, "Oh, poor baby! There, there!" for the rest of his dating life, unconditionally. But some of his dating life (ex: sex health concerns, a calendar for date planning) does directly impact you in your own life. So you can't just up and ignore it all. So talk with him where the line of discernment is going to be drawn. It will largely depend on the open model you both are practicing and the TMI zone for each player.
Once you agree on the line of discernment, let it go. Leave him to deal with his other romances and maintain your own healthy boundaries on your side of the equation. Micromanagement is stifling.
Are you feeling anxious? Where is the pressure coming from?
Galagirl
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