BDSM discussion
- Thread starter LovingRadiance
- Start date
Seems like a good plan.
I don't mind 24/7 situations, but I am very against involving other people in those situations when they have not consented to it. That could be other partners, but also other friends, etc. We used to have an adjusted 24/7 situation for a bit, but I couldn't deal with it. It was too much giving of myself to someone else. It definitely was interesting, though.
I'm not much of a submissive in general, so that probably plays a big part.
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LovingRadiance
Active member
D/s and poly
So the topic arose elsewhere that D/s dynamics alter the way in which relationships function. Certainly true. I noted that in my life I have worked D/s in around the rest of my life. But some people work their life around their D/s dynamic. Anyway, I thought I would start a thread on how this interplay affects the people in the D/s dynamic, and/or their metamours, etc.
So the topic arose elsewhere that D/s dynamics alter the way in which relationships function. Certainly true. I noted that in my life I have worked D/s in around the rest of my life. But some people work their life around their D/s dynamic. Anyway, I thought I would start a thread on how this interplay affects the people in the D/s dynamic, and/or their metamours, etc.
idealist
Member
I'm going to jump in here because I would like to see where this thread goes! I do not have any "formal" understanding of D/s relationship dynamics, but I have had some conversations with a male friend who is a Dom in his relationship with a female partner and I found those conversations to be thought-provoking.
I would suggest that although many people are having D/s relationship dynamics, they have never identified the dynamics as such.
When I explained the dynamics of my relationship with Richard, my Dom friend said, "Girl, you are a domme. You need to get some thigh-high leather boots and a whip." I actually liked that idea, although I haven't followed up with it, because D/s dynamics between me and Richard are deeply ingrained from within, and I'm not sure I need to "act them out" publicly in any way, through dress, etc.
I am definitely dominant by nature, but I will switch, and the reason I will switch is because I consider it an opportunity to do what I call "shadow work."
Looking forward to hearing what others have to say!!
I would suggest that although many people are having D/s relationship dynamics, they have never identified the dynamics as such.
When I explained the dynamics of my relationship with Richard, my Dom friend said, "Girl, you are a domme. You need to get some thigh-high leather boots and a whip." I actually liked that idea, although I haven't followed up with it, because D/s dynamics between me and Richard are deeply ingrained from within, and I'm not sure I need to "act them out" publicly in any way, through dress, etc.
I am definitely dominant by nature, but I will switch, and the reason I will switch is because I consider it an opportunity to do what I call "shadow work."
Looking forward to hearing what others have to say!!
Kip is D. I am s. The dynamic does not come into play in our general relationship. Sometimes he tries to pull the master card during conversation, but I don't go for it if I don't want to.
Prof is D, I am s. It also does not come into play.
Yo had no idea idea I was s until I told him that is what I was doing with the other two. He was quite surprised that I have a subby side. So it does not come into play there, either.
I am a strong personality at work and with parenting. Friends have been surprised that I enjoy subbing so much. I love to give up control, but if the guys wanted to do it outside of the scene then I probably wouldn't go for it. The power exchange is pretty much limited to play time for me.
Prof is D, I am s. It also does not come into play.
Yo had no idea idea I was s until I told him that is what I was doing with the other two. He was quite surprised that I have a subby side. So it does not come into play there, either.
I am a strong personality at work and with parenting. Friends have been surprised that I enjoy subbing so much. I love to give up control, but if the guys wanted to do it outside of the scene then I probably wouldn't go for it. The power exchange is pretty much limited to play time for me.
LovingRadiance
Active member
Not aimed at any poster, just general trivia
I think it's important to understand that there is a difference between a Dom/sub relationship and a Master/slave relationship.
A D/s relationship can easily be partitioned into sections of your life, very easily, actually, whereas in a Master/slave relationship, the Master has the final say.
I am the sub in a D/s relationship. I would never be willing to be a slave in a Master/slave relationship. As a switch, it would be completely unhealthy for me to commit to giving someone else all of the control for all of the time.
On the other hand, my relationship with GG is Master/slave. He is my slave. We don't "dress" the part. I don't wear the black boots. I don't use a whip, or restraints, for that matter. I don't need to. I rarely need raise my eyebrow. He defers to me always. He always has. If I have a need or a want, he tries to fill it immediately, even if it isn't something he prefers. I actually created some rules when we formally agreed to this dynamic that force him to be more attentive to his own needs. It drives him crazy, but I think it's important and necessary to promote him being the best version of himself in a way that allows for him to be self-sufficient emotionally and physically (not just financially) if something were to happen to me.
As noted by a previous poster, this dynamic existed long before we ever heard of BDSM (17 years before). He's always been 100% submissive to me. I worked very very hard not to take advantage of that when we were 'just friends,' and in doing so, it created a level of trust between us that is just unbreakable and unexplainable. Many people don't understand at all.
Whereas in my role as sub to Maca, I can and do say no when D/s crosses into areas where it isn't workable for me. I am completely submissive to him in the privacy of our own room. I have agreed to some little things that are public, like, I don't order my own meals in restaurants. But they are small and not highly noticeable. If you were to ask anyone in our larger social circle, they would all identify me as dominant, "in charge" and "in control."
Ironically, many see GG as being my "puppy dog." It's been said so many times over the years it's hilarious. Because, in a very real sense, he operates that way, in the BDSM world many would identify him as my "pet". But I don't see him that way at all. I see his submission, I accept it, but I use it to benefit him, not myself.
On the other hand, no one ever perceives either Maca or me as being submissive. We operate well together as a team, but we both come across as "the boss." My common analogy is that we are the general foreman carpenter and general foreman electrician on a job. We have our own crew we are in charge of, but we work together to get the job as a whole finished.
But no one sees the underlying play-by-play that happens between us. Sexually and in some other private areas, I am very much his "little" (research will explain that one to any who don't know the term) and while the outside world doesn't generally see it, GG, Maca (and my baby brother, of all the bizarre things) do see/notice it in everyday life.
I think it's important to understand that there is a difference between a Dom/sub relationship and a Master/slave relationship.
A D/s relationship can easily be partitioned into sections of your life, very easily, actually, whereas in a Master/slave relationship, the Master has the final say.
I am the sub in a D/s relationship. I would never be willing to be a slave in a Master/slave relationship. As a switch, it would be completely unhealthy for me to commit to giving someone else all of the control for all of the time.
On the other hand, my relationship with GG is Master/slave. He is my slave. We don't "dress" the part. I don't wear the black boots. I don't use a whip, or restraints, for that matter. I don't need to. I rarely need raise my eyebrow. He defers to me always. He always has. If I have a need or a want, he tries to fill it immediately, even if it isn't something he prefers. I actually created some rules when we formally agreed to this dynamic that force him to be more attentive to his own needs. It drives him crazy, but I think it's important and necessary to promote him being the best version of himself in a way that allows for him to be self-sufficient emotionally and physically (not just financially) if something were to happen to me.
As noted by a previous poster, this dynamic existed long before we ever heard of BDSM (17 years before). He's always been 100% submissive to me. I worked very very hard not to take advantage of that when we were 'just friends,' and in doing so, it created a level of trust between us that is just unbreakable and unexplainable. Many people don't understand at all.
Whereas in my role as sub to Maca, I can and do say no when D/s crosses into areas where it isn't workable for me. I am completely submissive to him in the privacy of our own room. I have agreed to some little things that are public, like, I don't order my own meals in restaurants. But they are small and not highly noticeable. If you were to ask anyone in our larger social circle, they would all identify me as dominant, "in charge" and "in control."
Ironically, many see GG as being my "puppy dog." It's been said so many times over the years it's hilarious. Because, in a very real sense, he operates that way, in the BDSM world many would identify him as my "pet". But I don't see him that way at all. I see his submission, I accept it, but I use it to benefit him, not myself.
On the other hand, no one ever perceives either Maca or me as being submissive. We operate well together as a team, but we both come across as "the boss." My common analogy is that we are the general foreman carpenter and general foreman electrician on a job. We have our own crew we are in charge of, but we work together to get the job as a whole finished.
But no one sees the underlying play-by-play that happens between us. Sexually and in some other private areas, I am very much his "little" (research will explain that one to any who don't know the term) and while the outside world doesn't generally see it, GG, Maca (and my baby brother, of all the bizarre things) do see/notice it in everyday life.
LovingRadiance
Active member
Atlantis, I read something the other day that you might be able to appreciate: "It's hard for an educated woman to turn off her brain. But when your Dom says it's time to feel and not think, it all stops and it's such a relief!"
CattivaGattina
New member
I'm someone who needs a D/s relationship. Woodsmith and I tried, but it doesn't work for us. He needs someone that will give him a fight for dominance, and doesn't know what to do with someone once they are at a submissive level. I, on the other hand, need someone who just by their presence is able to ignite the submissive spark in me. He is so laid back and nonchalant about everything that I have to generally take more of a lead role in many aspects of our relationship, which is really difficult and drives me up a wall.
I've realized that on a level of submission scale I fall between a D6 and D7 (too bad they don't make D6.5). I want to be able to have control over my life when it comes to necessities (making sure any relationship I have that is not a D/s or M/s one are healthy, any work I do) but have my free time that is not in that being available for my dom or master to have full control over. Even to the point of before I go to work or something giving me a protocol as to how nice to dress.
I've realized that on a level of submission scale I fall between a D6 and D7 (too bad they don't make D6.5). I want to be able to have control over my life when it comes to necessities (making sure any relationship I have that is not a D/s or M/s one are healthy, any work I do) but have my free time that is not in that being available for my dom or master to have full control over. Even to the point of before I go to work or something giving me a protocol as to how nice to dress.
So very, very true for me. Exactly right. I don't have to think, just feel and it is a relief. I have told both my guys that before. Sub space, love it.
I've been in two kink-based, power-exchange type poly relationships. They had no impact on the poly side at all. We decided beforehand that no tasks, etc., would affect my other relationships. That's just a douche move. Other than that, it has no bearing on anything. I call him "Daddy."
I don't make a huge differentiation between sub and slave because I know subs who have rigid, strict protocol and others who don't. Nobody is doing it wrong, per se, it's just that kink-based relationships are like any relationships, totally individual. I would be someone's slave, but that wouldn't mean that they could impose restrictions that are unethical to my other partners without their willing consent. I wouldn't be with someone who behaves so unethically. I'd also have two or more dominants if I felt they could cooperate.
I don't make a huge differentiation between sub and slave because I know subs who have rigid, strict protocol and others who don't. Nobody is doing it wrong, per se, it's just that kink-based relationships are like any relationships, totally individual. I would be someone's slave, but that wouldn't mean that they could impose restrictions that are unethical to my other partners without their willing consent. I wouldn't be with someone who behaves so unethically. I'd also have two or more dominants if I felt they could cooperate.
LovingRadiance
Active member
Cat, I can so relate to that. I thrive when what I wear, workouts, meals are defined by someone else. Left to my own devices, it feels like a wasted effort to dress nicely, eat healthily and work out. I still try, but if it is controlled by my Dom, I slide into sub mode and it becomes effortless.
LovingRadiance
Active member
They key difference isn't the strictness of protocol. The key differentiation is a slave agrees to allow the master full control (therefore, the term slave), whereas a sub agrees to limited control and reserves the right to rescind the agreement at will. But let's not digress into a battle of perseveration again.
No, I know many submissives who have no say over anything in their lives, when they eat, drink, pee, talk. Some people just totally reject the word slave because of its historical background, and some just don't use it to describe themselves. That's why talking about relationships with a power exchange, and whether that power exchange is total or partial, covers all kink-based relationships with an unequal dynamic, rather than trying to use a prescriptive label to make distinctions between relationships that vary so greatly.
Everyone has an out. Everyone uses it if they are in an unhealthy situation which makes them unhappy. The only ones who stay are the ones who would stay in a vanilla relationship that made them unhappy. And that has nothing to do with "Da Rulez", it's simply because they think they don't deserve/can't get anything better, i,e., low self esteem, or they get into that mindset that love/marriage/whatever means that you absolutely must strive through misery to prove your commitment and love to one another.
Trying to differentiate slave and sub by saying a slave is the one who gives up all their say, regardless of their personal feelings, just isn't apt. Saying a sub is the one who can just rescind their agreement at will isn't apt either: if you are in any type of power exchange, saying "no" will always affect the dynamic negatively. It isn't just going to pass without notice simply because you identify as a D-type's submissive, rather than their slave. It could potentially ruin your whole relationship. It makes absolutely no difference whether you are a slave or a submissive, it completely depends on the nature of your dominant, and the specific rules of your individual relationship.
This actually matters when it comes to polyamory, because when you identify as an s type of some sort, people assume that if you are already in a relationship, it will be a certain way because that kind of s-type has relationships with these sorts of rules. My Daddy, for example, isn't ultra protective, doesn't want to vet everyone I meet and thinks I should fuck more men. He is turned on by me getting fucked by other people. The other day on Fetlife (after seeing we have our profiles linked Daddy and babygirl) someone said that they didn't contact me because they thought that it meant he would want total control over everything and that I was only allowed to date females (despite being straight) because from his experience, babygirls are only usually looking for sister subs that they have sexual relationships with and secretly hate. The chances of me referring to a metamour as a "sister" is slim to none.
Lastly, openly disagreeing with me about something in a way that suggests that I am wrong, and then suggesting that we leave the conversation there just isn't going to happen. Sorry.
Everyone has an out. Everyone uses it if they are in an unhealthy situation which makes them unhappy. The only ones who stay are the ones who would stay in a vanilla relationship that made them unhappy. And that has nothing to do with "Da Rulez", it's simply because they think they don't deserve/can't get anything better, i,e., low self esteem, or they get into that mindset that love/marriage/whatever means that you absolutely must strive through misery to prove your commitment and love to one another.
Trying to differentiate slave and sub by saying a slave is the one who gives up all their say, regardless of their personal feelings, just isn't apt. Saying a sub is the one who can just rescind their agreement at will isn't apt either: if you are in any type of power exchange, saying "no" will always affect the dynamic negatively. It isn't just going to pass without notice simply because you identify as a D-type's submissive, rather than their slave. It could potentially ruin your whole relationship. It makes absolutely no difference whether you are a slave or a submissive, it completely depends on the nature of your dominant, and the specific rules of your individual relationship.
This actually matters when it comes to polyamory, because when you identify as an s type of some sort, people assume that if you are already in a relationship, it will be a certain way because that kind of s-type has relationships with these sorts of rules. My Daddy, for example, isn't ultra protective, doesn't want to vet everyone I meet and thinks I should fuck more men. He is turned on by me getting fucked by other people. The other day on Fetlife (after seeing we have our profiles linked Daddy and babygirl) someone said that they didn't contact me because they thought that it meant he would want total control over everything and that I was only allowed to date females (despite being straight) because from his experience, babygirls are only usually looking for sister subs that they have sexual relationships with and secretly hate. The chances of me referring to a metamour as a "sister" is slim to none.
Lastly, openly disagreeing with me about something in a way that suggests that I am wrong, and then suggesting that we leave the conversation there just isn't going to happen. Sorry.
CattivaGattina
New member
I don't have problems doing it on my own. I like to do all those things. But it just ignites a different part in me when I know my actions are pleasing someone, and my listening to them brings them joy.
SchrodingersCat
Active member
This all falls under my philosophy that only the person using the label has the right to choose the label and how it's applied. As a matter of coincidence, my tag below is stolen from a woman who identifies as "a sub" but lives the type of lifestyle defined by LR's "slave."
The debate on the meanings of "sub vs slave" is an old one, and certainly won't be resolved here. There are BDSM dictionaries all over the place that attempt to set it in stone, but that will never happen. London is right that individuals will always choose their own way to do things, and call it whatever the fuck they want. Few things irk me as much as one person telling another person how they may or may not identify themselves.
LovingRadiance
Active member
Schrodinger, I wasn't attempting to tell someone else what they should call it. I defined the terms I was using. I explained them and then was told I was full of shit. I responded by noting that protocol had nothing to do with what I said.
Anyone can choose any term they want to identify themself. But for the purpose of a discussion (which I started), in order to communicate, we have to have some agreed-upon term to start from and I created that, by researching the terms, and finding that there was a "general acceptance" for the definitions, which I then included in my posts here. OBVIOUSLY there are plenty of people who don't choose to fit within the bell curve of the 'general acceptance,' but they weren't part of the conversation (at least up to this point) and therefore not pertinent.
To be frank, I sincerely believe that London just likes to argue and seeks out places on here to do so.
I don't care what people call themselves. In my dynamics, I don't call myself Mistress or sub. I am Bebe and angel. But that is useless for the purpose of conversation with someone who was asking questions regarding D/s, because those terms have absolutely no meaning in the group at large.
Anyone can choose any term they want to identify themself. But for the purpose of a discussion (which I started), in order to communicate, we have to have some agreed-upon term to start from and I created that, by researching the terms, and finding that there was a "general acceptance" for the definitions, which I then included in my posts here. OBVIOUSLY there are plenty of people who don't choose to fit within the bell curve of the 'general acceptance,' but they weren't part of the conversation (at least up to this point) and therefore not pertinent.
To be frank, I sincerely believe that London just likes to argue and seeks out places on here to do so.
I don't care what people call themselves. In my dynamics, I don't call myself Mistress or sub. I am Bebe and angel. But that is useless for the purpose of conversation with someone who was asking questions regarding D/s, because those terms have absolutely no meaning in the group at large.
ColorsWolf
New member
I just wanted to let my thoughts known on this subject since this is the subject of this thread: I don't know if it's me, or it's an instinctual thing, but when I see anything anywhere with collars, leashes, chains, ropes, hand-cuffs, restraints, and ESPECIALLY cages used to contain something against its will this feeling wells up deep inside of me, a slowly-building rage, a desire almost undeniable to RIP APART, TO SHRED, TO COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY DESTROY ALL SUCH DEVICES!!!~~~ AAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!~ It is for this reason I can not be around creatures like "pets" in cages for long.
If someone wishes to be contained or restrained then I have no problems with that, go ahead live your life how you choose, but there's just something about holding anything prisoner against its will that just makes me feel so angry!~ XD
I REFUSE to be "dominant" or "submissive" or what ever it is you call it. I will NOT "dominate" and I REFUSE to EVER "submit".~ I just want to be free, and for anyone to ask me to do that to them, it strikes a chord within me like a wild animal, making me hardly able to even stand the thought!~
I think that the whole "dominate" or "submit" system that many Humans tend to apply to other species is conjecture at best, as no Human seemingly yet truly knows what is really going in the mind of a non-Human, because Humans don't understand non-Humans in a non-Human language!~ Humans have a tendency to anthropomorphize or project Human characteristics on other non-Human creatures. Because Humans have a very hard time understanding things from a non-Human perspective, it might as well be a completely alien world to them.~
Lo and behold, mercy to anyone who tries to contain or restrain me. It isn't long before I get extremely angry and violent, although this depends on whether or not I see a way out of the situation.~
It is for this reason that I don't see BDSM play working out for me personally, but for the rest of you: have a great time!~ ^_^
However, I am interested in a VERY LIGHT EXPERIMENTAL whipping, spanking, scratching, and biting.~ No slapping though, or I will bite your hand, and NOT in a way intended to cause pleasure.~
If someone wishes to be contained or restrained then I have no problems with that, go ahead live your life how you choose, but there's just something about holding anything prisoner against its will that just makes me feel so angry!~ XD
I REFUSE to be "dominant" or "submissive" or what ever it is you call it. I will NOT "dominate" and I REFUSE to EVER "submit".~ I just want to be free, and for anyone to ask me to do that to them, it strikes a chord within me like a wild animal, making me hardly able to even stand the thought!~
I think that the whole "dominate" or "submit" system that many Humans tend to apply to other species is conjecture at best, as no Human seemingly yet truly knows what is really going in the mind of a non-Human, because Humans don't understand non-Humans in a non-Human language!~ Humans have a tendency to anthropomorphize or project Human characteristics on other non-Human creatures. Because Humans have a very hard time understanding things from a non-Human perspective, it might as well be a completely alien world to them.~
Lo and behold, mercy to anyone who tries to contain or restrain me. It isn't long before I get extremely angry and violent, although this depends on whether or not I see a way out of the situation.~
It is for this reason that I don't see BDSM play working out for me personally, but for the rest of you: have a great time!~ ^_^
However, I am interested in a VERY LIGHT EXPERIMENTAL whipping, spanking, scratching, and biting.~ No slapping though, or I will bite your hand, and NOT in a way intended to cause pleasure.~
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Marcus
Well-known member
Domestic dogs are pack animals who flourish in a system where they know who the leader is. They have long since been bred to "submit" to a human or other pack leader.
BDSM is consensual; the fictional situation you are creating (which seems to be causing you to go into a fit of CAPS RAGE) is closer to abduction into slavery, which is illegal... obviously.
And yet you say you're joining the military shortly, where you will be trained to immediately obey and follow the orders of your superior officers on pain of court martial or other punishment/justice. If you get good enough at doing that, you will be trained to order many others around yourself, while still following the orders of the higher ups. Hmm!
ColorsWolf
New member
Regardless of what you are in, YOU have the power and YOU always make the choice to do anything.~
Any order I follow will be of my own choice to follow. I did, after all, VOLUNTEER to enlist into the military.~ HOWEVER, if I feel an order is unjust, uncalled for, or I just plain refuse to follow it: I have the option to contest it and bring it up with a superior over the head of the superior who issued the order.~
I make the decision what to do at all times with everything in MY life. I take full responsibility for all of MY decisions.~ By following an order, I am making the decision to follow that order of my own CHOICE.~ There is NO choice "out of my hands." Every decision I make is of my own choosing. I have no illusions to that, and I take full responsibility for ALL my choices.~