Please Help! Boundary Issue

Well, what the heck? You guys have good memories. That thread was from just over one year ago.

From the previous thread:

So, my husband and I have been married 11 years, poly for three. I had one long-distance 2 yr affair and some flings. he has his first girlfriend. Last night, we went out with the GF and it came out that they had had sex in front of people at a sex party,. This is my own issue and I'm trying not to judge. I am really upset by sex parties because my best fr iend has been a gay sex meth addict for 15 years. It is really difficult for me to conceptualize that these parties are safe and innocent. My husband also lied to me and downplayed the party because he knew I'd be upset. So, he put me and his lover (who I must say is a lovely honest person) in an akward position.
...

My husband's GF also has had sex parties at her house. My husband says he won't go to them anymore if they make me unfotable, but I'm just freaked out.

So, a whole year has gone by and you're still stuck on the same issue of whether or not your h is going to go to his second sex party? You're still correlating it with your meth addicted friend who goes to weekly drug fueled orgies? Even though you think your h's gf is a lovely honest person (and I assume, not a meth head)?
 
BUT if one of them opted to participate in them-I would stop having sex with them. It's a matter of MY right to choose what I do with my body.

Absolutely. But if you stopped having sex with one of your partners because you disagreed with the type of sex they were having, you'd be sex negative for one, and I'd also question why what they do in their own time has so much impact on you. Of course, I mean sex with adherence to safer sex practices already agreed. Research shows that sex positive people who subscribe to alternative relationships types such as polyamory and kink are more vigilant and knowledgeable than their counterparts when it comes to STDs and sexual health in general. So if you'd still stop sleeping with your partner who attended a sex party and only engaged in sex with people who would otherwise meet your safer sex criteria, then it's near impossible to deny that you are quite sex negative and/or controlling. Not controlling because your consequence seeks to stop what they are doing, but controlling because you are trying to coerce your partner into only observing sexual practices that you are comfortable with, even though they have no intention of observing those sexual practices with you. Letting go of control and the idea that you possess your partner would mean you really wouldn't be bothered what they did with who, as long as they didn't put your health at risk.
 
We (myself and Maca and myself and GG) agree that sex-parties are not an option. BUT if one of them opted to participate in them-I would stop having sex with them. It's a matter of MY right to choose what I do with my body. But it's not my place to tell them that they CAN NOT do something with their body that doesn't pertain to my body.
This is a good way of putting it. Though I don't think it has anything specificly to do with it being bodies or not. It could also be that "if you use our money otherwise thn we agreed, I refuse to continue having a joint bank account/shared houseloan with you". Or "If you buy a furred pet even though I am allergic(or hate cats or whatever), I will not live with you"

It is simply a matter of "of course you can do this, but then I also would do that as to protect myself". I would call that a rule, other would call it a consequense, others even a threat, but the bottom line is that we react to whatever other people are doing, and often predictably so.
 
How does your spouse going to a sex party require you to protect yourself? From what?
 
if you stopped having sex with one of your partners because you disagreed with the type of sex they were having, you'd be sex negative for one
Oh stop with the labelling. It destroys any real debate

it's near impossible to deny that you are quite ... controlling. Not controlling because your consequence seeks to stop what they are doing, but controlling because you are trying to coerce your partner into only observing sexual practices that you are comfortable with
Seeking to control other people is part of life. The degree to which we do it in certain relationships could be too controlling. You yourself have a relationship style where no-one else have any say whatsoever in your relationships. As you yourself has pointed out, this is unusual in polyamory, where many pursue primary-oriented relationships where it is possible to have rules, agreements and negotiations about a partners behaviour in a variety of ways. You are simply telling her to stop acting like a primary to her husband. How is this helpful?
 
Absolutely. But if you stopped having sex with one of your partners because you disagreed with the type of sex they were having, you'd be sex negative for one, and I'd also question why what they do in their own time has so much impact on you. Of course, I mean sex with adherence to safer sex practices already agreed. Research shows that sex positive people who subscribe to alternative relationships types such as polyamory and kink are more vigilant and knowledgeable than their counterparts when it comes to STDs and sexual health in general. So if you'd still stop sleeping with your partner who attended a sex party and only engaged in sex with people who would otherwise meet your safer sex criteria, then it's near impossible to deny that you are quite sex negative and/or controlling. Not controlling because your consequence seeks to stop what they are doing, but controlling because you are trying to coerce your partner into only observing sexual practices that you are comfortable with, even though they have no intention of observing those sexual practices with you. Letting go of control and the idea that you possess your partner would mean you really wouldn't be bothered what they did with who, as long as they didn't put your health at risk.

I agree, but with reservations.

Does "sex party" mean, like, swinging? Couples getting together for fairly casual sex? I don't think I could be in a serious relationship with a swinger. I could perhaps be in a casual relationship with a swinger, but I wouldnt seriously partner with someone with swinger tendencies. I find the idea of swinging a bit repellant because they are homophobic for the men.
 
How does your spouse going to a sex party require you to protect yourself? From what?
From uncertainties I am unwilling to live with. Our relationship style is so that I ok whoever he should be with, which is not possable in such a setting. You don't have to understand it, but this is what is working for us. Also, even though he is attracted to the idea of the purely sexual, he is easily smitten. I feel a need to protect him. You don't have to date us, why do you appose to our relationship style?
 
Firstly, you are confusing the idea of having a primary style relationship (legal commitment, shared finances, kids etc) with some sort of increased ownership over the other person. I absolutely am seeking a primary style relationship, it's just that my general ethos and boundaries will barely change when I do. I wont suddenly start feeling as if my partner needs to have the same sex as me, I won't need to control how he interacts with others and I won't feel personally aggrieved if he makes different choices to me. It will all stay the same in that respect. Marriage in a polyamorous relationship doesn't have to change those things. Not having rules to protect your relationship doesn't mean that relationship isn't serious.

The idea that your partner is an extension of yourself is a mindset that lots of people simply have.
 
I personally find the swinger environment generally against single men as well as homophobic. I'd discuss my views and I certainly wouldn't be with someone who is homophobic, but I wouldn't feel the need to stop sleeping with a partner who isn't homophobic but doesn't feel the same as me and/or continued to go despite acknowledging the prejudice. I might say that I don't want to hear about it though, especially if they insisted on telling stories about how these prejudices play out.

My partner is bi and swings but only in gay venues.
 
I personally find the swinger environment generally against single men as well as homophobic. I'd discuss my views and I certainly wouldn't be with someone who is homophobic, but I wouldn't feel the need to stop sleeping with a partner who isn't homophobic but doesn't feel the same as me and/or continued to go despite acknowledging the prejudice. I might say that I don't want to hear about it though, especially if they insisted on telling stories about how these prejudices play out.

My partner is bi and swings but only in gay venues.

Well, gay sex parties for men only seems to solve the problem for men who want casual sex with other men.

I am guessing the OP's husband isn't bi and if he went to the sex parties, he'd have sex with his own gf and maybe some other woman or women... However, the down side is I doubt he'd get to see a copy of the latest STD results from potential sex partners. I also hear from some (former) swingers that men they have swung with have a habit of taking off their condoms mid-fuck... So, these things would present a danger, besides the homophobia going on.

I also hear former female swingers saying they were overtly or subtly coerced into going to swing parties with their husbands so the husbands could get some "strange," but that the wife didn't find any of the men there attractive and had sex but didn't actually like it. Yuck.

So, again, I don't know why bofish/nondy is still in the exact same place around "sex parties" or swinging her h and his gf want to do, an entire year later. Is she afraid he or his gf will pick up a STD? Is she afraid there will be heavy drug use and he'll be raped and end up in the hospital like her gay friend? What is the specific problem? I know it's triggering, but breaking it down to what is actually going on would help a lot.
 
Men have the privilege of controlling that the condom goes on and stays on.
 
I'm not sure if the two OPs are the same person. Very similar, definitely, but it is possible two separate people have experienced something similar. I await confirmation, or denial.

Anyway, this reply is going to wander a bit.

@bofish, I could tell you about the sex parties I've been to. If you want, you can read about my experiences on my blog. (TL:DR - it was a 'meh' experience and I haven't felt the need to go again.) But, telling you about my experiences, or declaim that 'those people who go to sex parties' are just like you - but just go to sex parties too - is not going to help. All of your experiences and feelings are screaming at you otherwise. And you've had some shitty things happen to you and to friends. Like others, I encourage you to revisit these experiences and emotions. They are such strong triggers for you so something powerful is going on for you there. Therapy is probably the best way to do this but there are other ways. And I'm not telling you to 'get over your sexual hangups' or get sex-positive or whatever. You are not broken. But I suggest to you what I've learned (painfully). What is not faced controls us. Unfortunately, merely acknowledging triggers is often not enough to fully understand and resolve an issue.

@Magdlyn, Whip considers himself a swinger. He enjoys sex parties - he's an exhibitionist and a voyeur. He is also heteroflexible/bisexual. (He hasn't settled on a label for this part of his sexuality and may never so I am using these terms broadly. Basically he is happy to scene with men, and to have sexual contact with other men. We're both kinky.) In our local BDSM scene, there's been lots of discussion and unhappiness about the fact there are plenty of naked women at parties but none or few naked men. And unhappiness about the lack of male-male scening or sexual contact at local parties. So Whip decided he was going to get naked at parties where it was appropriate. He had some male-male hot tub hotness. After this, the light bulb went on for many men who felt similarly. They realized it was ok and safe for them to strip if they wanted to, to have male-male sexual interactions if they wanted to, and to scene with men if they wanted to. So, in part because of Whip's actions, there are more naked men at local parties, there are more places where it is ok to be bi/questioning/open/appropriate label here man and act on those desires in the local scene. It's not perfect. There is definitely still more of bias towards female nakedness, it's not a totally accepting environment of queerness. Too often women are presumed to be subs, men are doms, and switches don't exist. But Whip helped move the bar some. It definitely helped open up what was possible in the minds of many. And Whip's swingerness is part of the story. I don't know if he would have taken the same actions without that part of his identity. Swingers are used to thinking of sex as part of a community (if only in the club) in ways that can be positive and healthy.

Yes, historically swinging has been homophobic. But the culture of swinging is changing, if slowly. It is becoming less homophobic, more accepting of emotional ties. Poly Weekly did an interesting show on 'progressive swinging' which is basically swinging that doesn't freak out if two couples who swing together get emotionally attached to each other, that accepts that communities of swingers with deep connections to each other exist.

As for women who felt pressured to swing by their husbands, well that is not a problem with swinging. It's a problem of male entitlement and women hiding their truth (perhaps with good reason). Coercion violates consent and is never acceptable. It is never ok to pressure someone for something they don't want. And the person getting pressured needs to say 'stop that shit' (assuming this is not abusive and they feel unsafe).

You have every right not to be into people who swing. But your ideas of swinging, and swingers, may be limiting.

@NorwegianPoly - or at least I think you were the one who commented about this, it's interesting to me how BDSM communities differ. My local community is one where sexual activity is commonplace, where sex and kink are not particularly separate. For me personally, they are strongly intertwined. In fact, people in my community who do separate kink and sex - which is also totally legitimate - are unhappy with the public play spaces available because sex is so ever present. I have difficulty thinking of BDSM parties as sex free because that has not been my experience. Interesting!
 
Me

Well, what the heck? You guys have good memories. That thread was from just over one year ago.

From the previous thread:



So, a whole year has gone by and you're still stuck on the same issue of whether or not your h is going to go to his second sex party? You're still correlating it with your meth addicted friend who goes to weekly drug fueled orgies? Even though you think your h's gf is a lovely honest person (and I assume, not a meth head)?

Yes, I admit that is me. I did not want to disclose that because I was unhappy with the way I acted last time and wanted a second chance to act more skillfully.

I'm going to try to be clear:

Sex is a primary activity, interest, and passtime in my metamors life. She often goes to sex parties to hang out with friends and is very involved in the kink/sex scene. She even used to host these parties herself.

She wants my husband to participate with her in this lifestyle. I discussed at length with my husband why it triggered me and that I didn't want him to go. He agree to give it up and wasn't that interested. She continues to ask him to go (not just once or twice) it's regular issue, even tho she knows we had this boundary.

I am dealing with my own fucked-up sexuality. I have had cerebral palsy from birth and was always given the message that I wasn't sexy or supposed to have sex. For the past three years, I have been working on that and changing my attitude toward my body. Learning how to have an orgasm, dating, feeling what it is like to cruise and be cruise. ie. learning my sexual power. Someone on here said sounded like I was "abused." I do feel abused, by society that ingrains desexualization of disabled people. This is my issue to overcome. I am working on it.

However, I have my own pace. I do not want to be involved with someone who relates to the world through sex or sex conventions or parties. I do not want to be involved in that lifestyle. My considerations are different and because I went though trama with the gay boyfriends, I just don't want that scene as part of my life.

I also feel critized by this woman because I came out to my son so she and my husband could spend the night together. I also feel critized for not being open to her sexuality when neither she nor my husband will tell their parents they are poly.

I will reread the posts: but here is where I need concrete advice.

focusiing on MY behavior only.

1. Should I tell her that lifestyle isn't right for me right now, so I can only be casual friends?
2. Should I drop the boundary with my husband and let him make the decisions with her and not ask what they do?
3. Does anyone with experience with gay meth parties have advice on how to view regualar sex parties as safe and wholesome?

I am leaning toward what people here have most agreed to; but out, not be her friend, and hope for the best with my husband. Again, I can control my life. I ME doesn't want to be with anyone who makes sex parties or such a consistent party of their life, so if my husband chose that route, I would leave him.
 
You have to realize these parties are important to HER they are a large part of her social life. Your husband cares for her and wants to be apart of her life.

Yet you are demanding him to alienate himself from her and her social circle.

Can you not understand why that is selfish and wrong. It is her world not yours. Your husband wants her in his life. You need to live your life separate from hers pain and simple.

My guys have very little to do with each other. Butch knows that I am with Murf, but he has no idea where we go or what we do or who we see. Same thing the other way around. Heck tonight Butch is attending a BDSM event. As for the nitty gritty details I do not need to know. BDSM creeps me out due to issues from events in the military and childhood. I will be spending quality time with my kids and dogs this evening. With some chit chat here and there with Murf since he is working 12 hours tonight.
 
sex parties or replican parties LOL

You have to realize these parties are important to HER they are a large part of her social life. Your husband cares for her and wants to be apart of her life.

Yet you are demanding him to alienate himself from her and her social circle.

The message I am getting here is that I should shut my mouth and not discuss what lifestyle or boundaries I want. Is that what you mean to convey?


In all earnestness, how am I "demanding?" I asked. He agreed. He has every right to disagree. I have every right to ask. I also have every right to leave him social circle becomes a big party of his life. At this point, I am even trying to stop ASKING. I am thinking of following DADT. I don't even think he WANTS to be in that social circle. He has told both of that numerous times.

I don't see how saying ok, I don't want to be part of it, but it's yr choice, is demanding. It seems to be healthily controlling only myself.

My husband and I discussed that it would be the same for him if I dated a republican. Would he want a republican in his close sircle? NO. Would he want me spending every saturday night at a convention or rally? NO. I feel it would be within his rights to say I don't want that in my life and wish you wouldn't and would be within my rights to say - get lost!
 
Your husband cares for her and wants to be apart of her life.


My husband cares for her and wants to be part of her life. He doesn't want to go to sex parties or conventions on a regular basis. I actually have fear because I feel it's not going to work for them. She pretty clearly desires her partner to be entranched in that world. He does not want that.
 
D- Could you help me with the three questions I posed above?

They seem to be heading toward what you agree with and I'm starting to think you are correct. Just looking for a map to deal with my emotions. Thanks
 
I'm not even sure what a gay meth sex party is. However I am positive that all gay/straight/mixed sex parties do not include meth use. Is his girlfriend a meth user?

It seems like you and your husband have completely different ideas on what sex is. It's an important part of his life and you could take it or leave it? Why not let him have that with his girlfriend? Do you not trust him to wear protection while at these parties?
 
Yes. Tell your husband that whether he goes or not, you dont want to hear, its up to him to sort out his relationships.
 
The sex party effects you how? You are not being made to watch. You need to trust your husband. Apparently you do not since you have to tell him what he can and cannot do while with his girlfriend. Tell him you do not what to know the details of what he does with his time with his girlfriend. Honestly he probably agreed to shut you up and keep the peace. From your unwillingness to compromise shown clearly in you're attitude here in thus thread. You are ok with poly if it meets your expectations and needs but if your husband or his girlfriends versions don't fit then they are forbidden by you.

Guess what sweetheart I am a registered republican. I am more of a libertarian but in a two party system picked the lesser of two evils so I can vote in primaries. My family us staunch Republican I find your analogy offensive. But to answer your question remove the girlfriend from your close circle. You apparently dislike her and are possibly jealous of her. Simple stop talking to her.

The sex parties are NOT IN YOUR LIFE. They are apart of HERS. It is simple butt out. If your husband doesn't want to go to the party he is a grown up. He can say no himself. Are you his wife or mother.
 
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