Please Help! Boundary Issue

london said:
Firstly, you are confusing the idea of having a primary style relationship (legal commitment, shared finances, kids etc) with some sort of increased ownership over the other person. I absolutely am seeking a primary style relationship, it's just that my general ethos and boundaries will barely change when I do. I wont suddenly start feeling as if my partner needs to have the same sex as me, I won't need to control how he interacts with others and I won't feel personally aggrieved if he makes different choices to me. It will all stay the same in that respect. Marriage in a polyamorous relationship doesn't have to change those things. Not having rules to protect your relationship doesn't mean that relationship isn't serious.

The idea that your partner is an extension of yourself is a mindset that lots of people simply have.
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It is not uncommon for primary style relationships to have boundries. I don't mean that less rules means less serious. Perhaps polyfidility is a better description of our poly style.

In our local poly group we are mainstream. I once had a complaint, and that was a guy from another city who were opposed to polys wearing wedding rings (I never really got to the bottom of his mindset... I think keeping my marriage a secret would complicate things). I think me and my husband give eachother lots of freedom, one lover even asked if me and my husband lived seperate lives! I think the rules of our household are mosly visable to just the two of us, we never say "My wife told me not to do it", we just live by them.
 
bofish said:
He doesn't want to go to sex parties or conventions on a regular basis.
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If HE doesn't want to go, then HE needs to man up and communicate his desires to her. You do have the right to express your worries, concerns and fears, but be specific.

As far as politics, I have family that is die hard one affiliation and friends that are polar opposites end. There are a great many subjects that I agree to disagree with in both groups only occasionally do things get heated. However, no one I know goes to rallys or conventions even once every 5 years (or ever) much less every weekend.

Dagferi, don't be offended, if I read this right, this was a subject that specifically applied to her husband and his views.
 
opalescent said:
@NorwegianPoly - or at least I think you were the one who commented about this, it's interesting to me how BDSM communities differ. My local community is one where sexual activity is commonplace, where sex and kink are not particularly separate. For me personally, they are strongly intertwined. In fact, people in my community who do separate kink and sex - which is also totally legitimate - are unhappy with the public play spaces available because sex is so ever present. I have difficulty thinking of BDSM parties as sex free because that has not been my experience. Interesting!
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I am not saying sex does not take place (it does) but it is mostly low key and not displayed. Like you would never se penetration or sex toys. I think for most sex and kink are intertwined in their general experience, but there is still a little curtesey connected to keeping the overtly sexual part downplayed. Groups in other cities do it differently.
 
I've decided

What I have decided to do it butt out. I plan to tell them that what they do is none of my business and I do not want to know. I also plan to tell her that I only want to be causual friends.

This is a huge step for me in many ways. It means not winning a battle. It means not controlling people out of fear. It means trusting my husband completely.

WhatToDo - My friend in Seatle used to get together with his boyfriend and invite 15-20 guys over. They would take meth and have a couple orgies which sometimes went on for two days. The did this every weekend for years, which culminated in my friend in the hospital. Often the events were taped for pornography. Sometimes they used protection - often they did not. Many many gay men do not behave like this - but it is my understanding that it is a problem in the "community" in New York, for example, they have an anti-meth advertising campaign.

I have said before I am not sex-postive...I am on the track to healing but not there yet. I have no experiences (maybe with the exception the movie short bus) that protray sex parties as wholesome, innocent, and healthy. I know they probably exist. I just haven't had that experience yet..


D- I did not mean to insult you. What I meant is we all have prejudices and want to be around people who are "like" us. I, for example, do not want to associate with people who are ableist or hate children or, yes, make sex parties a big part of their lives. This doesn't mean I should hate on them. I will come across people unlike me and I have to struggle to accept their views - even if in cases of ableism, racism, or anti-transgender, their views might repel me.

LONDON: You know what? You are right. As long as I keep mistrusting my husband and trying to run his relationship, I'm just being unhappy and selfish (out of fear). AND most importantly it takes the pressure off both husband and GF to be responsible for their own decisions and relationship. i.e he can NOT WANT TO GO and SAY ...wife doesn't want...NOT HE DOES WANT.

Thank you for all your help.

Again if anyone wants to take about positive experiences with sex parties or how you healed from friends experiences on the meth scene...I'd be happy :)
 
FYI-
Personally-I would find it much more meaningful if you had returned honestly, without trying to hide who you are.
By returning under a new user name, without referencing the prior time you were here, it appears manipulative.
Manipulative behavior tends to beget more manipulative behavior.
Furthermore-it shows a complete disrespect for the person(s) you attempt to manipulate.

I recognized the story line due to the "friend who died of HIV" comment. Because I commented in your original thread-that I also have a friend who died of AIDS.

Because of your choice to be manipulative and sneaky here; I tend to think that you are probably being manipulative and sneaky in your efforts to micromanage the poly dynamic you are in.
And on that note-I can't give any further advice. But-the advice I gave in the original thread and earlier in this thread still stands AND IT DOES address your questions on what you "should" do.
 
I understand

I understand where you are coming from however, I had absolutely no intension of being manupulative, nor do I know how I was.

I chose a new name because I felt attacked before. Due to this attack and my unkind behavior in reaction, my self-defensivenss and anger- I chose to be anonymous (or tried to). You can believe me or not, but it was truly an attempt to relate to this list as a better person.

I also felt attacked for being a person with a disability who does not see disability as a tragedy or weakness, but rather a minority to be respected as other minorities.

I would like you to also know that ONE OF THE MODERATORS ACTUALLY SUGGESTED CREATING AN NEW ACCOUNT. i don't know if that was a PM, but you may be able to find it in the conversations.

I find the list contradictory to some degree. I am being jumped all over for being a cad, when, if you look at the other post (can't remember exact name) on how rules should be "punished" people are very tolerate of THOSE RULES AND THAT PERSON.

I understand why you feel manipulated, but that was absolutely not my intent and I am surprised that when I actually worth something through, and really try to listen and take people's advice, congradualtions and thank yous don't come rolling it. Rather, people look for new ways to put you down.

LR- you DID help me...if you really think I'm lying about my realizations, I would be more than happy to PM you the emails I sent husband and girlfriend.

I made huge huge strides, But maybe the furthest stride in that will be not needing congratulations and knowing and explaining MY INTENSIONS and accepting that some people will find me an asshole, no matter what.
 
Enjoy playing the martyr much?

No one has mentioned your disability except you several times.
 
Lying-no.
And as for other mods-I wasn't speaking as a mod, I was speaking as myself (If I am speaking as a mod, I will say so, because I always appreciate it when other do).

I don't think you were lying.
I do think it was manipulative.

The specific issues you are facing are also issues that pertain to being manipulative.
I did address them-with heartfelt suggestions.
But-I think it's important for YOU to understand;
the effort to be anonymous-WAS manipulative.

I have been outright attacked on this board over the last 4 years. I know what it feels like.
But-part of being honest and open is being vulnerable. It means saying "I felt attacked and I'm still struggling and not understanding and need help".
Versus hiding behind a new screen name so that you can repeat the same story and hope for a different outcome.

Long story short-the base advice-was the same both times. BEFORE anyone commented on the connection we made.
SO I would suggest considering the fact that the opinion didn't change just because your username did. Which suggests that the solution hasn't changed either.

You can only control YOURSELF.
Stop trying to control him (or her).
If you can't stomach sex with him if he's participating in sex parties-stop having sex with him.
 
Honestly

She doth protest too much!

But I just wanted/needed advice and thought I aleinated people before and want to relate better. I guess the iDEAL would have been to come on, acknowledge my past mistakes and apologize. Thank you for making me aware of that and you are correct, that would have been better.
 
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Once again

Why was it manipulative? Because i was hoping for a different answer? Fair enough. Again, I appreciated your love and advice. I still do.

I DID DO IT. I know it's hard for you to believr. It's fucking hard for me to believe.

ahhh shit: why hide now?

Here's the emall!

I am sorry this all got so messy.

For my part, I have decided not to request that *** modify his behavior. I feel that I have overstepped my boundaries and that the relationship between you two should be just that, without my interference. I just don't want to know anymore.

These parties bring up issues for me. I am acting out of the fear that *** will "end up like ****" or end up being someone I can't be with if I don't "control" him. That is not trust. I have to learn to trust him.

At the stage of my sexual development (which right now is about age 18!) I am not in a place where I can go to or discuss the events. This may change. It may not. I'm a very changeable person so I might be open to learning more about it in the future. Or I may not.

I don't think my behavior is about morality. I think it's about fear.

Also, I would only like for the three us of to get together very periodically, for now. It's all I have to give at this moment, again it could change. Therefore, I can't make it Saturday.
 
I took your advice!

Dagferi said:
Enjoy playing the martyr much?

No one has mentioned your disability except you several times.
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Why on earth are you looking for new ways to attack me.

My disability isn't about martyrdom and I'm HAPPY IF PEOPLE talk about it. I realize many people are desexualized (trangender, non masculine) etc.
 
I am glad you're opting to take positive steps to better your relationship.
 
london said:
From page 1 . . .
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london said:
From Page 2 . . .
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Just a tip: It's better to reference Post Numbers if you aren't going to include an actual Quote.

Page numbers are not the same for everyone, because we can all set our own reading preferences. I believe the default is 20 posts per page, but many of us set it to 40 posts per page, some do 30, and so on (these settings are found in everyone's User CP page - see instructions here). I have mine set to 40, for example, so what is on Page 2 for someone who hasn't changed the default, is still on Page 1 for me.

Hope this helps! And now back to the topic...
 
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new username?

Eh. I am just not that irked about the new username. In fact, not irked at all. I don't see it as manipulative.

I get that sometimes one wants a fresh start without prior baggage. I see the new username as just that - a new start, a new username. It's not very relevant for me that bofish used another name in talking about her situation before. It's unfortunate for her that it's the same situation but really, no skin off my nose. My thoughts and suggestions remain pretty much the same.
 
opalescent said:
Eh. I am just not that irked about the new username. In fact, not irked at all. I don't see it as manipulative.

I get that sometimes one wants a fresh start without prior baggage. I see the new username as just that - a new start, a new username. It's not very relevant for me that bofish used another name in talking about her situation before. It's unfortunate for her that it's the same situation but really, no skin off my nose. My thoughts and suggestions remain pretty much the same.
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Agreed. I think the important thing here is that despite a rather contentious thread everyone - both the OP and those who participated - stuck with it and now the OP is trying a new strategy, and learning a new skill.
 
Well, even if a mod suggested bofish/nonny start a sock account to get a fresh start on her issues, I do not see the point. Nobody here hated her, she didn't make enemies. She had a thread with a lot of tangents (sex/kink parties, safer sex/HIV/herpes, ableism) which engendered lots of opinions.

Now she's back a year later, same issues, not much progress. She sees less of the gf, altho she is acting like she wants to be closer to the gf and the gf won't, whereas in her old thread she was saying the gf wasn't "mature" because of her childfree hedonist sexy lifestyle, so got suggestions to choose to stop socializing with the gf.

Bofish still has her sex party phobia, is still relating them to drug and sex addiction, still hasn't attended one of the gf's parties to see if they are more... civilized, respectful, not 30 people raping one who needs medical attention as a result.

Are we to understand bofish's husband has been seeing his gf for a year, but he has obstained from all of her sex parties, until she once again invited him to one? Maybe she was testing the waters to see if the boundaries have changed since last year. That is not a crime. But then there was confusion with the husband when he was asked, "Where are you two going tonight?" and he said a play party (BDSM) whereas it was really sex. And that he was confused and didnt know which was which. Have he and the gf been going to BDSM parties all year? Maybe this one was supposed to be BDSM and sex, instead of just BDSM?

I still don't get drawing a line between sex and kink. I know others do, and that is fine, it just seems SO odd to me to separate the two. I mean, some kink involves using vibrators on a tied up sub. Is that sex or just kink? Is it only sex when a penis goes into a mouth or vagina? If a tied woman cums from a vibrator, is that sex or kink? I can cum just from having tits slapped or ass spanked. Is that sex or kink?
 
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Magdlyn said:
Well, even if a mod suggested bofish/nonny start a sock account to get a fresh start on her issues, I do not see the point. Nobody here hated her, she didn't make enemies. She had a thread with a lot of tangents (sex/kink parties, safer sex/HIV/herpes, ableism) which engendered lots of opinions.

Someone DID attack me regarding my beliefs that being disabled (for me) is a social, but not internal problem. That I am happy with my body. I am not willing to relive this tho. I believe in disability empowerment and disability as a minority group. But, I'm exhausted from fighting for this view in real life, and since very very few people hear understand it or agree with me...it's pointless.

"Now she's back a year later, same issues, not much progress."

Have you read any of my recent posts. I have made huge huge progress. HUGE


"Bofish still has her sex party phobia."

Yep, I do! I do. And you know what, no one here has aknowledged that MOST PEOPLE find sex parties unwholesome. If you find them OK - would you discuss them with your neighbors, parents, and kids when they grow up. My mediation teacher says if you cannot tell people about it, you probably should not be doing it. I agree.

My friend was not RAPED. Again you did not read the post.

A few things - 1. you have not acknowledged any of my progress or that I listened to your very advice. Instead, you comtinue to find flaws in me. Why? What am I triggering for you? Why can't we just agree to disagree and we don't disagree! I agreed with you.

2. When I came to the forum, I thought that it was people of all sexualities and genders. Then I began to wonder if there are GAY MEN on here. Not bi men or gay women, but gay men. This is very interesting to me socially because I didn't realize that "Poly" isn't something gay men subscribe to perhaps because every gay man I know, historically, and in real life organically has an "arrangement" -- monogamy is not the default. So I think when I talk about healing from a friend's orgy meth addiction and equating it to sex parties many people may not know what I mean or be able to empathize. I COULD BE WRONG!!

3. D- you are RIGHT again. I myself don't know the boundaries between kink and sex. It was a vicseral reaction. Again, I'm taking concrete steps to butt out. I wish you would acknowledge that I have admitted I was wrong, but perhaps some other anger at me keeps you from it & I am silly to need or want that.

4. Yea. I am envious of someone who makes 3 times our combined salary and has no kids or morgage or pets and can do what she wants 24/7. Yea. I do think someone 41 who is entering into her first "real relationship" is "immature." So, what! Those are my opinions and judgements. I have to work with myself to be accepting and non-judgemental and know that I MADE MY LIFE. So I could have had her life and didn't.
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I don't know where or how you read anger in my post.

I also did not see someone attacking you on your other thread (which I just reread.) I saw people disagreeing with you, having trouble using terms in the same exact way you do, telling you personal stories of being disabled, or dealing with disabled loved ones or strangers.

*shrug*
 
Just because someone wouldn't go to a sex party, it doesnt mean they disagree with them altogether. And many people would discuss them with others, even their kids, in the right circumstances.
 
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