Most people find polyamory unwholesome too so what's your point?
Please Help! Boundary Issue
- Thread starter bofish
- Start date
Most people find polyamory unwholesome too so what's your point?
What the hell?
I'll probably regret this - but for the sake of transparency, I've decided to share who I am in real life - that way if you disagree- you disagree with the "real me."
D- I didn't say anger. I said you continue saying things like 'I've made no progress." You are bating me to say so and so said he's rather be dead than bel ike me...then he can come on an attack me again. Sorry, I don't go fishing...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALoSV3cafS8
http://www.beautyisaverbbook.com/
http://saintelizabethstreet.blogspot.com/
Are there any gay men on here? Just curious.
I'll probably regret this - but for the sake of transparency, I've decided to share who I am in real life - that way if you disagree- you disagree with the "real me."
D- I didn't say anger. I said you continue saying things like 'I've made no progress." You are bating me to say so and so said he's rather be dead than bel ike me...then he can come on an attack me again. Sorry, I don't go fishing...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALoSV3cafS8
http://www.beautyisaverbbook.com/
http://saintelizabethstreet.blogspot.com/
Are there any gay men on here? Just curious.
This is true. But I'm willing to tell EVERYONE, including collegues and very religious parents about my poly. I am not willing to tell people I go to sex parties. I am an open book. I don't keep many things private. I think it's because my disability is obvious, so I'm not in situation where I can "pass" for average or abled. So, I just choose not to pass for anything and get (unfairly) annoyed when others do.
It annoys me that neither husband nor GF will tell their families. In their secrecy, they are able to "pass" for monogamous and not deal with the fall out. I find this problematic.
I am sorry you are struggling. 
This is a long thread, so I'm just going to respond to your original post, ok?
You do not talk to her direct. Your hinge tells you what she said. He could stop telling you so you don't have to know her behavior and get upset twice over.
In her behavior? If she knows an agreement between (you and DH) and continues to invite him to break it? She is not being respectful of HIM or HIS agreements with his spouse. He could call her on that.
YOU could call him on telling you crazy you don't need to know which only adds to your burden. Esp. when he does not ALSO share that he called her on disrespecting agreements he shares with you.
-1 for her for not respecting
-1 for him for TMI-ing you and not telling her to respect his agreements with his spouse
-1 for him for not telling her to respect his agreements with his spouse
Your spouse was not coerced to agree to anything with you, right? He co-created an expected standard of behavior with you that both agreed to uphold? If so, HE has agreed to control HIS own behavior to fall within those boundaries.
If his GF has a problem with HIM controlling HIS behavior, she can take it up with HIM. Leave you out of it.
It is not you being controlling. It is her not wanting to help him keep agreements with his spouse. Just like she could expect you to help him keep agreements with her.
One does not play "tug of war" with the hinge person and make life hell for the hinge. It is not loving or kind behavior.
If your spouse is telling her "my spouse won't let me" garbage rather than "I have agreements to keep with my wife" -- he could think about how he phrases things and OWN his own behavior. You could call him out on that.
If something scares you and grosses you out, you could respect your own limit of tolerance and choose not to attend.
If you are curious and aroused, and this is greater than the gross out/fear factor, you could go and choose to change your limit of tolerance.
Only you can know the answer to what you are willing/able to do in this case.
If she wants to be with a single man, she could date a single man.
If you currently call him on their dates and it is not to agreed to boundaries? You could not do that. You would not like her calling on (you+him) dates to shoot the breeze.
If you and spouse agreed to practice a primary-secondary open relationship model, and she agreed to participate as a secondary, she could not be surprised she is a secondary who sees him once a week and he has agreements to keep with other partner.
If she wants to renegotiate boundaries, she could ask (you), (DH) and (You + DH) if you are willing to do so and change the boundaries of the polyship, including the structure of this open model relationship to change from (primary-secondary) to some other model. Then (you) and (DH) and (you+ Dh) are free to consider if you are indeed willing to do that or not.
Or she could stop participating in the polyship as it stands if it does not meet her needs. Any of you could, even you.
What was the polyship's agreed to methods for communication? If they no longer serve at this time, you could all talk to see about changing that.
At this time, if the agreement is "separate but equal" communication and you both find yourselves struggling with "sloppy hinge" because he leaks all over the place, you each could ask your hinge to STOP telling you stuff that belongs on the other side of the "V" because it creates problems.
In this case? With the party? You seem most mad that nobody came to you first above.
Since the GF prefers to not talk to you, it would fall on DH then to renegotiate that if he wanted to attend without breaking agreements with you. He could have said
Instead you seem mad at the GF because she appears to be the trigger, and while she has some stuff there she could own, the closer problems seem to to be with DH in his role as hinge. He's not one not holding up his end of the stick on your shared agreements -- not her.
Galagirl
This is a long thread, so I'm just going to respond to your original post, ok?
You do not talk to her direct. Your hinge tells you what she said. He could stop telling you so you don't have to know her behavior and get upset twice over.
In her behavior? If she knows an agreement between (you and DH) and continues to invite him to break it? She is not being respectful of HIM or HIS agreements with his spouse. He could call her on that.
YOU could call him on telling you crazy you don't need to know which only adds to your burden. Esp. when he does not ALSO share that he called her on disrespecting agreements he shares with you.
-1 for her for not respecting
-1 for him for TMI-ing you and not telling her to respect his agreements with his spouse
-1 for him for not telling her to respect his agreements with his spouse
Your spouse was not coerced to agree to anything with you, right? He co-created an expected standard of behavior with you that both agreed to uphold? If so, HE has agreed to control HIS own behavior to fall within those boundaries.
If his GF has a problem with HIM controlling HIS behavior, she can take it up with HIM. Leave you out of it.
It is not you being controlling. It is her not wanting to help him keep agreements with his spouse. Just like she could expect you to help him keep agreements with her.
One does not play "tug of war" with the hinge person and make life hell for the hinge. It is not loving or kind behavior.
If your spouse is telling her "my spouse won't let me" garbage rather than "I have agreements to keep with my wife" -- he could think about how he phrases things and OWN his own behavior. You could call him out on that.
If something scares you and grosses you out, you could respect your own limit of tolerance and choose not to attend.
If you are curious and aroused, and this is greater than the gross out/fear factor, you could go and choose to change your limit of tolerance.
Only you can know the answer to what you are willing/able to do in this case.
If she wants to be with a single man, she could date a single man.
If you currently call him on their dates and it is not to agreed to boundaries? You could not do that. You would not like her calling on (you+him) dates to shoot the breeze.
If you and spouse agreed to practice a primary-secondary open relationship model, and she agreed to participate as a secondary, she could not be surprised she is a secondary who sees him once a week and he has agreements to keep with other partner.
If she wants to renegotiate boundaries, she could ask (you), (DH) and (You + DH) if you are willing to do so and change the boundaries of the polyship, including the structure of this open model relationship to change from (primary-secondary) to some other model. Then (you) and (DH) and (you+ Dh) are free to consider if you are indeed willing to do that or not.
Or she could stop participating in the polyship as it stands if it does not meet her needs. Any of you could, even you.
What was the polyship's agreed to methods for communication? If they no longer serve at this time, you could all talk to see about changing that.
At this time, if the agreement is "separate but equal" communication and you both find yourselves struggling with "sloppy hinge" because he leaks all over the place, you each could ask your hinge to STOP telling you stuff that belongs on the other side of the "V" because it creates problems.
In this case? With the party? You seem most mad that nobody came to you first above.
Since the GF prefers to not talk to you, it would fall on DH then to renegotiate that if he wanted to attend without breaking agreements with you. He could have said
"Hey, my GF invited me to a sex party. I told her I cannot because I have agreements to meet with you. But in future I think I would like to attend one. Could we talk about that boundary and renegotiate? Would attending one help you consider changing that limit"
Instead you seem mad at the GF because she appears to be the trigger, and while she has some stuff there she could own, the closer problems seem to to be with DH in his role as hinge. He's not one not holding up his end of the stick on your shared agreements -- not her.
Galagirl
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Are you calling me, Magdlyn, "D," or are you referring to Dagferi or? A couple posts back, you said:
I, Magdlyn, was talking about the differences between a sex party and a sexy kink party. And you mentioned that and then went on to say someone was angry.
I don't know. My best advice is, don't talk about your sex life in general with your neighbors, parents and kids, whether it's one on one missionary, or a party with friends. There are lots of things I enjoy doing I wouldnt talk about with my dad, next door neighbor or my kid! Yikes. I talk about my sexual/relationship issues with my sister, a couple friends, online some, when I am fairly anonymous, but it's not the business of my dad, neighbors or kids. I doubt they'd be interested. I am not ashamed of my sex life, I just don't think it's appropriate to talk about with just anyone.
This is interesting - but what (for you) constitutes "sex life?" Being poly, being gay or bi or transgender? Being in an SM community? Being in a community that hosts regular sex parties? Where do you draw the line?
I am TRULY SORRY if you haven't critized me for "not changing." I may have gotten posters confused. Sorry
YouAreHere
Well-known member
Yup. I wouldn't talk salary either. Doesn't mean I'm ashamed of it. In both cases, unless you know your audience VERY well, and know they're receptive to it, it's just not the best topic of conversation.
My sex life is when I am fucking. I don't tell family and neighbors all about my fucking, whether one on one or in a larger group. I don't tell my bosses I am bi, living with a woman, and that I am poly and have a boyfriend. My neighbors may notice I live with a woman and that a man comes over often. Perhaps they think my gf is my daughter (since she is 22 yrs my junior), and think the guy is my husband, brother or friend. I see no reason to explain exactly what is going on. I do not tell my dad or neighbors I am kinky or poly or that I've been to a few poly/kink cons. My kids are in their 20s but they knew from an early age I was bi, and probably suspected from their teens on some of my kink interests because of my choice in movies. We talked about kinky topics when they were in their late teens, in a general way. No, I did not say, "And your father (my ex) spanked me last night." TMI!!!
I think your therapist made a very strange statement: "Never do anything you wouldnt tell your kids, neighbors or parents."
I am TRULY SORRY if you haven't critized me for "not changing." I may have gotten posters confused. Sorry
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Sorry to chat so much
That's not what my therapist said - He's a Buddhist and he said, if you aren't willing to walk up to someone and tell them what you are doing, you probably shouldn't be doing it. There are many reasons to disagree with this, and people should have privacy.
But, it helped me. I WAS in love with a cheater. The fact that I would not openly tell people was a red flag on my moral compass.
I PERSONALLY have issue with people who aren't out - as being poly, gay, bi, disabled, whatever. To me the issue is that by staying "in the closet" that person is helping maintain the concensues that being disabled, gay, bi, poly is wrong... and making it harder for those who are out.
However, I choose to put my activism above my comfort and I actually have to because the minute you look at me, you know I'm disabled. I can't have the luxury of looking for a job or a boyfriend as a non-disabled person.
That's not what my therapist said - He's a Buddhist and he said, if you aren't willing to walk up to someone and tell them what you are doing, you probably shouldn't be doing it. There are many reasons to disagree with this, and people should have privacy.
But, it helped me. I WAS in love with a cheater. The fact that I would not openly tell people was a red flag on my moral compass.
I PERSONALLY have issue with people who aren't out - as being poly, gay, bi, disabled, whatever. To me the issue is that by staying "in the closet" that person is helping maintain the concensues that being disabled, gay, bi, poly is wrong... and making it harder for those who are out.
However, I choose to put my activism above my comfort and I actually have to because the minute you look at me, you know I'm disabled. I can't have the luxury of looking for a job or a boyfriend as a non-disabled person.
There sure are. Shame could be one reason, but there are other reasons, many related to earning a living, or live and let live, or having very conservative family that you don't want to alienate. Telling people about my sexual ID and practices is just TMI to more than my closest friends. Who I am fucking, how and why? My bosses don't need to know that, they just need to know I am doing my job competently, and then pay me for doing so. My mailman doesnt need to know how many orgasms I had last night! lol
I'm envious! I wish I had more orgasms! I should take some lessons from you! LOL
I understand you not wanting to alienate your family and I respect that. But, don't you think if you COULD do it some day - it might work toward making your family more accepting of say, gay marriage, or not hate on bi people less, say.
My openness with my mother about my gay boyfriends and poly lifestyle has helped her (a staunch Catholic) open up her prejudices. And that, to me, has helped one less instance of prejudice.
Of course, my mother would not disown me under any circumstances, so I can understand why that might be more challenging for another person who would be disowned.
This is a huge argument I have with disabled people who don't disclose. They feel I have no 'right" to ask them to make the job search harder for them and they are correct. But my feeling is that people realized HOW MANY disabled people there are and HOW capable they are, it would be mainstreamed and easier for all of us.
I understand you not wanting to alienate your family and I respect that. But, don't you think if you COULD do it some day - it might work toward making your family more accepting of say, gay marriage, or not hate on bi people less, say.
My openness with my mother about my gay boyfriends and poly lifestyle has helped her (a staunch Catholic) open up her prejudices. And that, to me, has helped one less instance of prejudice.
Of course, my mother would not disown me under any circumstances, so I can understand why that might be more challenging for another person who would be disowned.
This is a huge argument I have with disabled people who don't disclose. They feel I have no 'right" to ask them to make the job search harder for them and they are correct. But my feeling is that people realized HOW MANY disabled people there are and HOW capable they are, it would be mainstreamed and easier for all of us.
I was speaking generally. My mom, who is now dead, was very liberal, but I don't think I ever came out and told her I am bi, because I was married to a man and mono for over 30 years. She died before my ex and I separated. My dad wouldnt give a shit. I've visited him with my gf. Even though I have told him many things that indicate she is my partner, not a platonic roommate, he doesnt seem to get it. But other than screaming into his face,"Dad, miss pixi and I are LOVERS, we HAVE SEX!" it's just not going to sink in. My sister is liberal, she knows I am poly, bi and kinky. I don't tell her details because she is mono, straight, vanilla and nearly asexual.
Otherwise, all I've got is one aunt, who is conservative, but I have never been close with her. She knows I divorced and am now living with a woman, but she doesnt pry... we would never discuss sex (sexual ID or preferences or non-monogamy or, god forbid, kink) when we have our bimonthly phonecalls. It's just not something I need to bother her with. She can come to terms with gays at her own pace. I mean, she was a gym teacher and never got married ( to a man) and left her parents' home til she was 40. I feel no urge to "open her mind." She's 75. Let her be.
BTW, my gf is transgender and handicapped, so I've heard the argument that she is OK the way she is, it's just that society isn't set up to make things easier for her to function.
SchrodingersCat
Active member
Just got the record, I'm not willing to walk up to a perfect stranger and discuss my bowel movements. I don't think that means I should become anal retentive. Sex is no less natural than poop.
I've often heard that you should not discuss the following topics in mixed company: politics, religion, sex, and operating systems. None of those are anything to be ashamed of, but all of them have the potential of offending people you don't know well.
The main reason I wouldn't tell a stranger about my sex life isn't that I think it's shameful, it's that I respect personal boundaries. Unless someone invites me to discuss my sexuality, I'm going to assume they don't want to know. If I'm invited, then I have no qualms telling anyone about anything that I do. Indeed, I welcome the opportunity for education and enlightenment.
I've often heard that you should not discuss the following topics in mixed company: politics, religion, sex, and operating systems. None of those are anything to be ashamed of, but all of them have the potential of offending people you don't know well.
The main reason I wouldn't tell a stranger about my sex life isn't that I think it's shameful, it's that I respect personal boundaries. Unless someone invites me to discuss my sexuality, I'm going to assume they don't want to know. If I'm invited, then I have no qualms telling anyone about anything that I do. Indeed, I welcome the opportunity for education and enlightenment.
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I'm not understanding the distinction here: there is actual SEX - i.e. I love giving head.
Or orientation - I am straight, bi, poly, trans, gay, asexual, whatever... I feel that I don't disclose these, I am hiding a large part of who I am from people who love me. I am also setting back a movement for those who have been brave enough to be open and, in some cases, died or gone to jail for it.
Or orientation - I am straight, bi, poly, trans, gay, asexual, whatever... I feel that I don't disclose these, I am hiding a large part of who I am from people who love me. I am also setting back a movement for those who have been brave enough to be open and, in some cases, died or gone to jail for it.
Lots of people don't count their sexual orientation as a major part of their identity. Haven't you ever met a gay person who is just gay? Nothing else to them? It's boring.
But of course, you'd want to share things that are important to you with people who are important to you. There's a difference between telling your mum that you have same sex relationships and telling her graphic details of how you express your homosexuality. So I could tell my mum I'm a bit kinky, might even tell her I'm submissive, I wouldn't tell her that my Daddy ties me up and buggers me.
But of course, you'd want to share things that are important to you with people who are important to you. There's a difference between telling your mum that you have same sex relationships and telling her graphic details of how you express your homosexuality. So I could tell my mum I'm a bit kinky, might even tell her I'm submissive, I wouldn't tell her that my Daddy ties me up and buggers me.
London,
I'm still not quite getting it. So, you are OK with people not being 'out" (if they are gay) at work or to their families, or even neighbors.
I could understand not being "out" as poly. I still think it's not ideal that my husband and GF aren't out to their families. I think it's hiding and lying about a big part of their lives.
But for all the men (and women) who have died or lost their jobs or kids for coming out as gay, I don't have much tolerance for gay people in the closet...sorry. But, I've expressed this before about disability. I think it's human nature to put our own comfort over changing society.
I'm still not quite getting it. So, you are OK with people not being 'out" (if they are gay) at work or to their families, or even neighbors.
I could understand not being "out" as poly. I still think it's not ideal that my husband and GF aren't out to their families. I think it's hiding and lying about a big part of their lives.
But for all the men (and women) who have died or lost their jobs or kids for coming out as gay, I don't have much tolerance for gay people in the closet...sorry. But, I've expressed this before about disability. I think it's human nature to put our own comfort over changing society.
Actually, NO, I haven't met a gay (man) person who didn't consider their sexual orientation as PART of their identity...don't know about the word "major."
Have you? Unfortunately, there's probably not one gay man on this list or we could ask him!
Most of the gay people I know don't think their homosexuality is a major or defining part of their persona. And just because you aren't "out" to certain people, it doesn't mean you are closeted. It just means you haven't shared that information with certain people because it would upset them and destroy your relationship and them knowing who you fuck really isn't that vital, or you prefer to keep a professional relationship with colleagues and your sexuality is irrelevant to professional relationships, or a variety of other reasons.