V Triad is a happy family... but where did my lover go??

[Lilysmile1]

I would be grateful for any advice. This is long. Sorry.

My husband and I have been married for 20 years, swinging for many of them. We opened our marriage about two years ago at his request, because we were leaning more toward friendship and involvement with another couple, and yet found that attraction and connection was difficult to achieve. We became good friends with this other couple. My husband and she connected, whereas the other guy and I did not. So my husband wanted permission to date her solo.

It was very tough for me to make the transition, but I have. I must say I have grown a ton as a human being as a result. Things still come up sometimes, and our relationship is changed fundamentally, but it's been good. Our kids are off to college, so this crazy adventure is kind of timely.

About a year ago, I met a man that I fell for. Hard. NRE like I had never experienced before. Just madly, head over heels in love with him. The first two months we were dating, it was a two-way street, without a doubt. He texted me all the time. We had incredible sex often. He said great things about me. We were very demonstrative and passionate. We connected in every way. Awesome. He is a single dad with sole custody, and I love his kids.

About three months into our relationship, a few things happened in his life that hit his self esteem. I noticed a big change in him. He really turned inward. I resolved to be patient, stand by him, love him, because he assures me his feelings have not changed. He was just feeling low about himself.

Fast forward. We moved in together as a V triad. Things are pretty awesome on the home front. The guys get along. We have a schedule.

The kids are super happy and doing great. He is a stay at home dad. My husband and I are totally fine with that. He is a fantastic dad and the kids have really benefited from this. It's just peaceful. In many ways, I feel like our family structure and the simple happiness in our lives are just awesome. I am a fantastic mom and I find a lot of joy in sharing my life with his kiddos.

So, where is the rub? He and I have sex far less often. I'd say we are down to 1 time a week or less. He is not demonstrative much at all anymore. I have a pretty high sex drive and am very affectionate; touching and intimacy don't have to lead to sex. He has turned me down or been totally passive when I snuggle him often enough that I am hesitant to initiate these days. He rather quiet and withdrawn. He says it is difficult to get used to being affectionate with my husband around. But wait a minute-- he isn't very affectionate when my husband isn't around. He says that while he and his kids are super happy, it is just hard for him to adjust to being supported by us. He appreciates our support very much and just needs time. He has always had to work to support himself, and not having a job is a big adjustment to him.

I believe he loves me. I sure do love him. I know we are all happy in so many ways and it makes me feel guilt that I think of ending it because I am basically signing up to be a co-parent for another 20+ years with a man who is no longer my lover... and that is not really what I want. To raise kids with a man who is as in love with me as I am with him?? Sure. To cut the sweet connection between me and a darling man down to 1/3 of what it was in order to do this? I am not sure.

I have talked to him about his apparent withdrawal. He just maintains that he feels not quite depressed, but down, and that we need time to settle in to what is very new to all of us.

I also want to mention that when I met him he left his phone laying around unlocked all the time. I never took a look, but I noticed that he did not guard it. To me it meant, nothing to hide. Guess what? Yeah, you guessed it... he is super guarded about his phone now. Who knows what that could mean? A need for privacy just because of all the new and shared things? Scheming to get back together with his ex who is the mom of his kids? Financial or other troubles that he prefers I not know? Something else? I tend to see that sort of behavior change as meaning something... Am I wrong?

My husband was concerned about supporting him merely because he thought that it would impact our new partner's self esteem, and cause harm to the relationship. Could it be as simple as this?? Do I need to give it time and patience? Or am I being used and should I believe what I see: that he just really isn't all that into me anymore? Is all of this from the fact that his NRE has worn off and he just needs to be able to focus on his kids for a while, and the fact that we are supporting him makes that convenient?

I have been telling myself to be patient, be patient, because I just love him so, so much. We have so many reasons to be happy together as a little family. But where did my lover go?

I know none of you are mind readers (darn!) but if you have some insight to share, I would be very open to hearing it. Thanks!

 

[KerryRen]

I have been telling myself to be patient, be patient, because I just love him so, so much. We have so many reasons to be happy together as a little family. But where did my lover go?

I know none of you are mind readers (darn!) but if you have some insight to share, I would be very open to hearing it. Thanks!

When NRE wears off, that often changes the dynamic of a relationship. Usually that's when people make the decision to do hard work to maintain their relationship, or alternatively, choose to end it.

It seems to me that you've moved out of the "lover" dynamic and into the "family" dynamic. Having kids, taking care of them, changes things a lot, as I'm sure you've already experienced.

I have to ask, however, if this is your lover's first experience as a parent, or as a SAHD? It's a job that you can only learn as you go. If he's worked outside the home all his life, having parenting become his primary job can be a head-trip -- not a bad one, mind you, but there's a period of mental adjustment. Length varies depending on the person.

And taking care of children, even older ones, can leave one feeling over-loved at times, emotionally drained even while emotionally satisfied, overloaded with tactile sensations.

Maybe he needs a day off to recharge, or maybe just to get away from it all, to feel romantic/erotic again. Being around children can be inhibiting.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Lilysmile1]

Some great thoughts. Thank you.

Here is the thing: I have had similar thoughts. I really just want to get a gut check. Sometimes a person can be so blind to what seems obvious to new eyes. The fact that you are not saying WAKE UP makes me feel that giving it time, communicating and continuing to water it and see what grows isn't a mad-cap thing to do.

Cheers.

 

[Magdlyn]

That is a lot of changes.

I always see a red flag when people move in together, or plan to move in, before a year is up. Moving in, in the throes of NRE, is just the wrong time to do it. Sure, it works out sometimes, but usually, it doesn't.

How many months after meeting did you and your husband move in your bf? It's a shame he's using the "can't show affection around the husband" card. That's the kind of thing that should've been worked out before moving him in!

And if it's a lie anyway, and if he's being secretive with his phone, it's time for some hard talks.

Is it possible he's having an affair when the rest of you are out of the house? Is it possible he doesn't love being a SAHD? Does he need a job, even part time?

No one can answer these questions except him. You are new to polyamory and there are kinks to be worked out in the poly dynamic, as well as in one-on-one relating/communicating.

Many people have less sex once the NRE wears off. (Personally, I don't, and I seek partners with high insatiable libidos like my own.)

Recently I read here a word of wisdom concerning relationships: You spend the first year forming, second year storming, third year norming. Do not cave in to a so-so sexless relationship, for the sake of the kids, or whatever. Loss of intimacy, as in, deep talks and honesty, can lead to a lackluster sex life.

I hope you find out where his lack of affection stems from!

 

[Lilysmile1]

Great thoughts, thank you.

It is true, at the end of the day these are questions only he can answer. And at the VERY end of the day, I need to seek what truly works for me, long term. I will not commit to childrearing and commitment merely for the sake of the kids, regardless of how much I love them.

Much to think on. Thanks again.

 

[IndieSolo]

It could be that dating a married woman had a certain appeal, but living with her and her husband is a reality he wasn't prepared for, even though the two men get along. Does he have his own room? Enough privacy? If he is naturally introverted, that is important. I don't see anything wrong with him locking his phone now that lots more people are around.

That being said, feeling "down" just sounds like another word for depressed to me. Dysthemia is a low-grade depression and very common. Perhaps he needs to see a doctor.

 

[alibabe_muse]

I also want to mention that when I met him he left his phone laying around unlocked all the time. I never took a look, but I noticed that he did not guard it. To me it meant, nothing to hide... He is super guarded about his phone now. Who knows what that could mean? A need for privacy just because of all the new and shared things? Scheming to get back together with his ex, who is the mom of his kids? Financial or other troubles that he prefers I not know? Something else? I tend to see that sort of behavior change as meaning something... Am I wrong?

You can't assume he's hiding anything. Why not just ask him, rather than wondering? All that is doing is opening up Pandora's box in your mind. Our minds create ways, too often, to wreak havoc that's not there. It's always best to ask. You may find out it's nothing more than him feeling a need for privacy after moving in with his lover and her husband.

My husband was concerned about supporting him merely because he thought that it would impact our new partners self esteem, and cause harm to the relationship. Could it be as simple as this??

Your husband has hit it on the nose, in my opinion. I have been the breadwinner in my marriage for 90% of the time. To have a woman or another man support you, your boyfriend must be going through a huge chunk of self-esteem issues. Guilt, although there shouldn't be any, since he's doing his share of helping with the home, etc., can lay heavy on anyone, and it tends to make guy or girl behave in truly unexpected ways.

Just talk to him. You'll never know without getting him to really open up and communicate to you, as well as you communicating to him, how this new change in living arrangements, and how his behavior is making you question the relationship. How can he "fix" whatever it is to satisfy your needs if you are not telling him as much?

 

[YouAreHere]

It could be that dating a married woman had a certain appeal, but living with her and her husband is a reality he wasn't prepared for, even though the two men get along. Does he have his own room? Enough privacy? If he is naturally introverted, that is important. I don't see anything wrong with him locking his phone now that lots more people are around.

This. NYCindie said it before I could. I agree. With more people around, there are more stressors, and perhaps more reason to try to retain some privacy, even in minimal ways.

This holds even if he's extroverted, BTW. I know I would have a hard time going from my own place to one that no longer feels like mine. It would make me want to keep a tighter grip on those things that are mine.

 

[Lilysmile1]

Yeah, I wondered about that, just that need for a feeling of more privacy. He has own room. We have a big, big house. Still, as a stay at home dad with two little ones, "me time" is needed.

I really liked the earlier comments relating to just being kind of overstimulated, needing his own space after giving his all the whole day. This really resonated for me.

We didn't enter into cohabitation lightly. I don't think that wanting to be poly is enough reason to actually take the step, and I don't think that any mix of people can live together easily and happily even if they love each other. What we have is pretty awesome. Hearing some different perspectives on what I shared has been super helpful to me. It's helped me see how lucky we are that we really do get along so well, have such a happy family dynamic, and communicate well.

I think at this point what I need to do is continue to communicate, listen to what he says and believe it (that's what trust is), and just give things time. He has put himself and his ego aside to care for his kids, and this part of him is something I value and respect greatly. He is an amazing dad. Doing this might cause challenges, and have some prices that go along with it. Helping each other move through different phases of life, being there to support one another... that is what families are for.

Thanks all.

 

[Natja]

I'm sorry if I missed it, but is there a reason he is staying at home? What was he doing before he moved in with you, and why can't he work?

 

[WhatHappened]

If this were your husband and he seemed depressed, would you consider divorcing him over having sex only once a month?

If poly is about love, and you love this man, love is patient, love is kind...love stands by through the hard times.

What if had an illness or ED? Would you announce that you only loved him as long as he could perform?

If this is about sex, then by all means, let him know the weekly minimum in order to stay in your home.

 

[Magdlyn]

@WhatHappened-- your words are very harsh. the OP has said she is trying to be patient, but even her non-sexual affection is not being returned lately.

She mentioned something that happened just 3 months into the relationship that was a blow to her new partner's self esteem. One wonders what that was.

Personally, I also get to feeling off when my female partner isn't into sexing me. I *have* let her know how I feel when she is standoffish. I need sex to feel bonded with a partner, or at least yummy making out. It's not something to be mocked in the way you have done. Many humans are like this.

 

[WhatHappened]

This is hardly mocking. It's telling it like it is. Sorry if you disagree, but this is a public board, where people are asked for opinions. Mine is that, where there is real love, we don't just toss our hands up because we're not getting enough sex.

I have watched an older couple at church for the last seven or eight years as this woman of about 5'4" helps her 6'3" husband with Alzheimer's into the pew, helps him through Mass, and helps him out again, takes him to soup suppers, helps him sit, gets his soup for him. THIS is what actual love is about--being there for someone even when something goes wrong and they can no longer service you.

REMINDER AGAIN: This is a public board where opinions were asked for. I've seen plenty of 'harsh' opinions tossed around. There's currently a defense going on elsewhere that it's perfectly acceptable to tell someone they're pulling a 'douche-bag move,' and, hey, people here use colorful language, so that's okay.

So I'm stating my opinion. If this is about love, then let's point out that the guy is clearly upset about something, or going into a depression, or has a health issue, or whatever, and true love steps in and is patient for however long it takes. If this is about sex, fine, but let's be honest and say so.

 

[Lilysmile1]

As I shared earlier in this thread, just getting my thoughts out and hearing some different perspectives and insights was a big help to me.

The thing about venting thoughts, fears, worries, etc. in a public forum is that you nail down some of the thoughts you're thinking right then. And the people reading what you wrote will sometimes hone in on something deeply insightful that will help you, or maybe they will fix on something that is meaningful to them, or even a pet peeve.

Several things stand out to me as I think about this today:
- It helped a lot to get confirmation that staying at home and not working, and especially, just giving his all to kiddos all day long, could be playing a role. I mean, I knew this, but sometimes it just helps to share thoughts on it.

- I really don't want to share a whole lot of details about different aspects of the what and why, because it just doesn't feel right to do so. I'm not trying to be mysterious, just respectful.

- Intimacy/sex is not the primary thing, but it IS one of many important facets in a relationship, especially early on. We usually go on as we have begun, NRE notwithstanding. I don't feel any shame about feeling some worry about a lack of intimacy and feeling of connection this early on. If I were not noticing this and worrying, I would be asleep at the wheel. There is no doubt that what we share is about far more than sex, something that is demonstrated clearly, in beautiful ways every day. What was said by WhatHappened was point blank, yes, but it didn't offend me or anything. I think it is a true and good point, and there is no way that anyone could know if this was really true for this family or not. All anyone knows is what they glean from this little thread.

- It isn't a question of him getting sexy often enough to be allowed to stay in "our home" because its OUR home. We are a family.

- It made me feel really warm and fuzzy to have someone point out that they can see that I have been being patient and that I do care and want to be supportive, so thank you for that. I'm just sorting out feelings. It's been a super big help to hear all these thoughts.

I just love him like fire. I feel so grateful to have the ability to know this kind of family structure; to be able to be there for each other and grow together; to find out what works, and the best way to be together, grow together, and love.

It is a good thing.

 

[Marcus]

This is hardly mocking. It's telling it like it is. I'm sorry if you disagree, but this is a public board, where people are asked for opinions. Mine is that, where there is real love, we don't just toss our hands up because we're not getting enough sex.

I have watched an older couple at church for the last seven or eight years as this woman of about 5'4" helps her 6'3" husband with Alzheimer's into the pew, helps him through Mass, and helps him out again, takes him to soup suppers, helps him sit, gets his soup for him. THIS is what actual love is about-- being there for someone even when something goes wrong and they can no longer service you.

One person's "real love" is another person's nightmare. I'm glad the OP is getting to read about the extremes of the spectrum to be able to help arrive at what is reasonable for her. I personally think that there is a happy medium to be had, in that a relationship of value should include a bit of "tough out this rough patch, hopefully it will pass." It should also be tempered with the knowledge that living a genuine life is priority number one, so I should not confuse "giving it a real shot" with "I'm going to stick with this no matter how miserable I am." One is a reasonable display of dedication. The other is just going down with the ship. This is my opinion about "real love."

As an aside, while I don't 100% agree with your point, WhatHappened, I don't see anything rude about what you said. Please don't let the haters discourage you from making your points.

I also want to mention that when I met him he left his phone laying around unlocked all the time. I never took a look, but I noticed that he did not guard it. To me, that meant he had nothing to hide... He is super guarded about his phone now. Who knows what that could mean? A need for privacy just because of all the new and shared things? Scheming to get back together with his ex, who is the mom of his kids? Financial or other troubles that he prefers I not know? Something else? I tend to see that sort of behavior change as meaning something... Am I wrong?

The paranoia about the phone, the potential conspiracy to hook up with his ex, and that he's just using you for financial support strikes me as an issue. The fact that your mind naturally went there either means something about your mental state, or it means that perhaps you don't know this fellow very well (which sounds to me like the culprit).

I'm not sure how long this relationship has gone on. You did a fast forward in your story, but I didn't see a time stamp. But it is entirely possible that you are still getting to know him. A friend of mine told me that she thinks people are still getting acquainted a couple of years into most relationships. For me, this has proven true. As a personal example, after my most recent gf and I were together for a year, we moved in together (along with her other bf). She had a family crisis, and our relationship was completely redefined over the next few months. It turned out that we were not going to be able to relate romantically (or personally) after all, so we parted ways.

I feel so grateful to have the ability to know this kind of family structure. To be able to be there for each other and grow together, to find out what works, and the best way to be together, grow together, love. It is a good thing.

People do a lot of self talk. If we have an unknown mixed with the ability to let our mind wander we can convince ourselves of all kinds of crazy shit. Personally I really like this statement and encourage you to make it your mantra.

There is no way for you to know how this is going to play out. Is he going to come around and be an affectionate lover again? Is this the way it is and everyone just needs to adjust? Who knows? The only thing you can control is your behavior and your mental state, so keep an eye on your self-talk, be kind to your loved ones, be genuine, and take a deep breath.

Then, have the good sense to know when a relationship is bringing you more pain than pleasure, and make whatever adjustments are needed.

 

[Lilysmile1]

Marcus, yep. Yep. Yep.

I know him pretty well. And I find that the biggest thing I have learned on this journey is that knowing, or thinking that you know others isn't real, and isn't the point anyway. It's knowing yourself. All relationships come back to this. It is about that inner journey and growth.

If I had understood how deeply spiritual and growth-promoting poly really was, I would have opened my life to it many years ago. It will show you where you need to grow. It will show you where you are lying to yourself, insecure in yourself, lacking in true love of self or others. It will help you grow toward being fit for any kind of relationship, poly or otherwise. But it all starts with your own head and the noise inside of it.

And I agree about being genuine and true to myself, too. We can love others and live genuine lives and grow, and just be open to what happens next. I cannot wait to find out.

 

[JaneQSmythe]

I'm not sure how long this relationship has gone on. (You did a fast forward in your story. I didn't see a time stamp.) But it is entirely possible that you are still getting to know him. A friend of mine told me that she thinks people are still getting acquainted a couple of years into most relationships. For me, this has proven true.

I'm one that has had success in my relationships (all both of them) by living together early on. For me, I don't think that I can really "get to know" someone if I am not living with them (perhaps because I am an introvert and am only really "me" when I am home?) For me, that is kind of where the "real" relationship starts. That, and after the NRE has worn off.

Very often, early on, less so as time passes, Dude would look at me after I had said something and state something along the lines of "I really don't understand you at all." And my response would be, "Of course not. We have only known each other for a minute. Give it time." Over the last few weeks (sparked, in part, by changes occurring in our various relationships with Lotus) we have had several conversations about how far we've come and how much we have changed. We decided that we have now been together for "more than a minute." It will be three years in April.

My husband and I have been together 20+ years and I am still "getting to know" aspects of him. Part of this is because people grow and change, and part of it is because there are so many layers that make us up-- genetics, experiences, thoughts and responses. There is always another layer underneath.

Can we ever really know another person? Do we ever really know ourselves?

***JaneQ wanders off to think Deep Thoughts***

 

[Magdlyn]

If this is about sex, then by all means, let him know the weekly minimum in order to stay in your home.

@WhatHappened-- your words are very harsh. the OP has said she is trying to be patient, but even her non sexual affection is not being returned lately.

This is hardly mocking. It's telling it like it is. Sorry if you disagree, but this is a public board, where people are asked for opinions. Mine is that, where there is real love, we don't just toss our hands up because we're not getting enough sex.

REMINDER AGAIN: this is a public board where opinions were asked for. I've seen plenty of 'harsh' opinions tossed around...

So I'm stating my opinion. If this is about love, then let's point out that the guy is clearly upset about something, or going into a depression, or has a health issue, or whatever, and true love steps in and is patient for however long it takes. If this is about sex, fine, but let's be honest and say so.

I didn't say you couldn't express your opinion. It was the way you did that I found harsh. Saying, "If this is about sex, then by all means, let him know the weekly minimum in order to stay in your home," is flat-out sarcasm and also highly inaccurate, in light of what she actually said in her OP. Personally, I try to never use sarcasm in a conflict. It's never helpful to mock someone when they are crying out for help.

Nowhere and nohow did the OP "toss up her hands because she wasn't getting enough sex."

That doesn't make me a "hater," Marcus, to call someone out on using sarcasm on a new member like that. Sheesh!

As an aside, while I don't 100% agree with your point, WhatHappened, I don't see anything rude about what you said. Please don't let the haters discourage you from making your points.

One can make a point without saying things sarcastically.

 

[vanquish]

I've got to agree with Magdlyn, the comment about a "weekly minimum" was dripping in sarcasm. And when you factor in the gravity of the hypothetical situations WH was describing, i.e., dumping someone for having a medical condition they can't be blamed for, it trivialized the OP's concern for frequency of sex she was expressing a need for.

Frequency of sex is an important issue for adults.

 

[Marcus]

I didn't say you couldn't express your opinion. It was the way you did that I found harsh. Saying, "If this is about sex, then by all means, let him know the weekly minimum in order to stay in your home," is flat-out sarcasm and also highly inaccurate, in light of what she actually said in her OP.

The statement honed in on the infrequency of sex, which seemed to be the core issue. There were other things at play, but sex was certainly front and center.

Let's break the statement down logically:

The OP is having stress dealing with a sharp drop in sex frequency.​

If there is a number of times which wouldn't seem "too few," then there is at least a general idea of how many times is enough.​

That being the case, one could suggest that the partner should be alerted of this minimum.​

If the minimum amount of sex is not met, and the OP is not able to adjust to this change, then an adjustment to the relationship is next.​

A likely adjustment to this relationship could be ending the cohabitation.​

"If this is about sex, then by all means, let him know the weekly minimum in order to stay in your home," - sans sarcasm.

Does that pass your stringent views on what we can and can't say, Mag? I want to make sure I don't overstep my bounds and speak in a manner you don't care for (THAT was sarcasm). [Edit: I guess technically that is irony delivered in a sarcastic manner.]