I Wish my hubby was more like new boyfriend

Hi Debbyandray.
I was passing on a bit of information from Dan Savage so you wouldn't have to leave this site. One stop shopping so to speak.

Warm regards, Rick.
 
Oh yes, Debbie, I didn't mean you don't belong on this forum. Heck we even have monogamous people on this forum. It's just because you didn't mention the actual term cuckolding, that I brought it up.

I am glad your h has found a way to deal with his feelings around his small penis, and that you have found an outlet for your high sex drive.

Good luck with your "New Man," and everything else.
 
nycindie said:
Hi there. I am curious - do you have any other basis for your relationships besides sex? Do you and your boyfriends talk, do fun non-sexual things together, or are these purely sexual involvements? Just wondering.
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My LDR BF and I have known each other a very long time. We do a lot of things that are not sexual, together, and with his wife. My new BF is/has been so busy, that we really haven't been able to spend much time together at all. So, with my FWBs it is mostly sex. With my LDR BF and my husband and my new boyfriend, my focus is on life experiences that include and do not include sex.
 
graviton said:
you sound like you're 14 in your description. Grow up and love people for who they are. I'm sure each of these men don't find you absolutely perfect and wouldn't mind if you were more like Jessica Alba or Zooey Deschanel, but instead have to live with reality and take the good with the bad. Enjoy what they have to offer. You may find that your constant comparisons will damage all of these relationships.
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Yep.

But the husband gets off on these comparisons, so maybe it's ok? I would feel like complete shit if I knew someone was comparing me like this, though. Certainly there were things I liked about one partner more than the other, but I would try to not think about them, let alone say them.
 
Re (from DebbieandRay):
"In the cuckolding community many men and women are into IR. Years ago that was a very taboo subject. Now IR relationships are common."
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Not to get us off on a tangent, but what's IR? I can't find it on Wiktionary or Urban Dictionary.
 
I *think*, though I could be wrong, that IR = interracial. (At least that's what it means in romance fiction...)
 
Ohhh, yah, that makes sense.

@ DebbieandRay ... I am thinking you might want to have some heart-to-hearts with your husband and your new man. You need to think about what you want to say to your husband though. Do you really want him to be like your new man? Do you think that's something he even can do, even if he tries?

I'm thinking discuss the masturbation matter but with care, so as not to be "laying down the law," but just suggesting, "Hey, I am here, if you ever want me to pleasure you I would be happy to do it." Finally, let your new man know you would like to spend a little more time with him (sexual or not), even if it's just little bits of time.

See if that helps.
 
kdt26417 said:
Ohhh, yah, that makes sense.

@ DebbieandRay ... I am thinking you might want to have some heart-to-hearts with your husband and your new man. You need to think about what you want to say to your husband though. Do you really want him to be like your new man? Do you think that's something he even can do, even if he tries?

I'm thinking discuss the masturbation matter but with care, so as not to be "laying down the law," but just suggesting, "Hey, I am here, if you ever want me to pleasure you I would be happy to do it." Finally, let your new man know you would like to spend a little more time with him (sexual or not), even if it's just little bits of time.

See if that helps.
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(Response Part 1)

Communication between me and my husband has never been an issue. And my husband openly admits, even to other people, that he is a bit of a girlie-man. My husband is the one who came up with the phrase, "That's what other men are for."

When we need anything done around the house, my husband either hires someone to do it, or I end up doing it, because I can. The extent of my husband's handyman abilities is hanging doors and changing out sink faucets. My husband has no mechanical abilities. He has always had other men work on his cars. That is my husband.

My new man is a master mechanic and auto painter. My LTR BF is a contractor, electrician, plumber and mechanic. Both of my BFs are very masculine, as well. All things that my husband isn't.

My BFs have abilities that my husband doesn't, but that doesn't mean they are better than my husband is. When I said that I wished my husband was more like my BFs, I was saying that I wished that he was more masculine and wasn't so afraid of his desire for sex.

Both of my BFs are very busy men, who have little free time, for me or anyone else. My husband doesn't have that problem.

The husband of a couple that we have been friends with for about 5 years came over last night and worked on my husband's and my son's PCs. In return I sewed some patches on his work shirts. As the night went on, the husband of the couple we have been friends with, Tom, let me give him a back rub and he even let me rub him through his pants.

Tom is on the road most of the time, but he had time last night, which was nice. Tom and his wife, Cindy, are great people, but Cindy works all the time, too. Cindy gave her blessing to me years ago, if I could get Tom to get with me. Tom has never reacted much to my flirting, but last night he did.

My husband was at his mom's house while Tom was at our house. I kept my husband informed of everything by text. When Tom agreed to be intimate with me, I texted my husband and told him. My husband texted back that he was turned on.

I have been attracted to Tom since the day I met him. He is tall, has a great body, and a very good sense of humor. Tom let me be oral with him as he worked on my husband's PC. I liked that a lot. It turned out that I was oral with Tom for an hour, and it didn't seem that long.

Tom is 6' 5" tall. He has a very dominant personality. Yet, when it came to being intimate with me, he seemed a bit timid at first. Other than a relationship he'd had with Cindy's sister, that lasted for almost 5 years, Tom has been monogamous with Cindy.

Cindy has had an intimate relationship with a co-worker for the last 10 years or so. Cindy's biggest complaint about Tom has always been that he is too well hung. I did not find that to be a problem for me and Tom.

I liked that Tom was sized as he is. My husband is not at all well sized, and sex with my husband is rarely fulfilling. Me and my husband have sex pretty often, but I am not oral with him much, and he is rarely ever oral with me. And my husband has no interest in my breasts.

With Tom, I spent an hour being oral with him, and I loved it. When Tom and I went to my bedroom, Tom spent a lot of time on and with my breasts. Tom told me that he loved my breasts, and that he was a breast man. Tom asked me what kind of man Ray is, tit, ass, etc. I told Tom that Ray is more of a vagina man. And that Ray likes watching other men slide in and out of mine.

Once in my bedroom, Tom and I were both oral with each other, for a long time. And Tom played with my breasts, a lot. I liked that. Tom, last night, was a lot like I wish my husband was more often. That's what I am talking about.

When Ray and I are sexually intimate, he usually gets himself ready, and once he is erect, we usually have intercourse missionary style. Tom and I had intercourse, last night, in several positions. I liked that. Ray has been willing to try other positions, but because of his size, few work out well. With Tom, because he is much more endowed than Ray is, all the positions we tried worked really well.

Tom and I made love to and with each other for almost two hours last night. It was so nice with Tom, because when Ray and I make love, sexually, it is really just intercourse. With Tom it was fondling, kissing, oral, intercourse in several positions and a lot of laughter and playing with each other. That was really nice.

When it comes to sex and intimacy, Ray is very clinical. Even Ray's ex-wife told me that she always wished that Ray wasn't so clinical (and predictable) when it came to sex. Sex with Ray usually consists of him getting himself hard, Ray lubing me up, we have intercourse, Ray kisses me and thanks me, then he apologizes.

Ray is the only man I have ever been with who apologizes after having sex with me. Ray's ex-wife told me that was the biggest reason that she hated sex with Ray. Ray's ex-wife said that if Ray hadn't been so clinical and predictable, and hadn't apologized for having or wanting sex, she would have had sex with him more often.

Ray's ex-wife actually enjoyed giving Ray oral, and wanted to a lot, but she didn't want to give Ray oral just to have him apologize for liking it, and then being a bastard for days afterward. I don't blame her, and I understand all too well.

Ray is a wonderful man, and he has a lot of really good qualities, but he also has a lot of qualities that get on people's nerves. I have 12 notebooks that I have filled with problems that I would like to solve, between me and Ray, and issues that to this day have never been resolved. I talk to and with Ray about these notebooks and issues, a lot, but very little has ever been accomplished.

I love Ray with all my heart and soul. And I want to be able to love him more. Ray himself says about that, "That's what other men are for." I disagree. To me, other men are to enhance what you already have.

A perfect example was today. We took our daughters out and my husband made an unexpected turn. I asked my husband where he was going, and he turned back around. I asked Ray where he was going, and he apologized for not thinking. I asked Ray what he WAS thinking. He said he was going to go to the bank, because we needed to, and had forgotten that there was another closer bank to where we were going after we dropped the girls off. That pissed me off.

When I realized what bank he was going to go to, I told Ray that bank was the better choice and all he had to do was tell me what he was thinking. Ray told me that when I asked him where he was going, to him it was a polite way for me to tell him that he was wrong. And he wasn't wrong. Where Ray was wrong was in thinking that I thought that he was wrong.
 
kdt26417 said:
Ohhh, yah, that makes sense.

@ DebbieandRay ... I am thinking you might want to have some heart-to-hearts with your husband and your new man. You need to think about what you want to say to your husband though. Do you really want him to be like your new man? Do you think that's something he even can do, even if he tries?

I'm thinking discuss the masturbation matter but with care, so as not to be "laying down the law," but just suggesting, "Hey, I am here, if you ever want me to pleasure you I would be happy to do it." Finally, let your new man know you would like to spend a little more time with him (sexual or not), even if it's just little bits of time.

See if that helps.
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(Response Part 2)

After we dropped off the girls, we stopped at our house and picked up the rock we have in the entrance to our driveway. It is a relatively large stone that my newest BF is going to paint for us. It will have our family name and when we got married, as in est.

We picked up the rock and met my new BF at his work shop. When we called to tell him that we were on his way, my new BF. Ah, new BF's name is Scott. When we got to Scott's workshop he told us that he couldn't stay long because he had a rig on the road that was broke down and he had to go rescue him. Scott got the rock out of our truck and again said he couldn't stay long, but he wanted to give us idea of what he planned to do with the rock.

As we hung out with Scott, he let me fondle him. And he fondled me. Scott told Ray that he was glad I was there because his inhibitions were still really high. Ray asked what he could do to make Scott feel more comfortable being with me. Scott told Ray that he just liked knowing that Ray was really okay with him and me playing and being together. Scott told Ray that he (Scott) was very much an Alpha, and I told Scott that was what I liked about him.

I also told Scott that Ray is very much a beta. Scott accepted that and added, "And when Debbie is with me, she can feel safe and protected. That is just how I am." I told Scott that was another thing that attracted me to him. Scott said to Ray, "I would think that would be important to you, seeing as how Deb is your wife." Before Ray could answer I blurted out, "That's what other men are for." And Ray agreed.

I told Scott that if the three of us were ever out together, and I were to be in a position where I had to be protected, that Ray would be a block away while Scott was taking care of the business at hand." Scott added, "Again, that's just me and how I am." I again told Scott that was what attracted me to him, his alpha personality, and that he made me feel safe and like a woman. I told Scott that too often Ray makes me feel like the man of the relationship. Scott interjected by clutching my breasts and saying, "With these, honey, you could never be a man to or with me."

Scott kept my breasts in his hands and kissed me. I turned around and kissed him. I told Scott that he was part of the balance. He is so alpha, where Ray is so much a beta. Scott reached out his hand to Ray and said, "We all do our part, right?" Ray agreed.

We were at Scott's workshop for almost 45 minutes, and I had to remind him of the broken down rig he had to get to. Scott laughed and said that he was having to much fun playing with my breasts and talking with us and having me feel him up that he forgot about the rig for the time being. That made me feel special. Quality time is important to me, and Scott gave me a lot of his time today. That was important to me.

I told Ray that when we got home, that I wanted us to make love. When we got home, Ray did the dishes and I cooked up some chicken broth, cut up some chicken and set aside the extra chicken so that Ray could make the bar-b-que chicken he likes to make. By the time I ate, I had to go give plasma. I give plasma because I feel it is something good that I can do for others. So, Ray and I didn't have time to make love.

Ray told me that just before I said something about us making love that he had been thinking that I really didn't want to make love to him. I told Ray I knew the minute he started doing the dishes that we weren't going to make love. I admitted that I wanted to make love, but knew it wasn't going to happen, anyway. Ray got depressed.

AS I ate lunch I made Ray sit with me and talk with me. I asked Ray if he thought I was happy when we were at Scott's workshop. Ray said he thought I was happy because I was playing with and kissing Scott and giggling like a school girl. I told Ray that I was happy because I had both of my men, my Alpha and my beta man. I told Ray that what made it all fun was because I had both of my men with me. I reminded Ray that although I was rubbing and kissing Scott, I was also hugging and playing with him.

I told Ray that I sometimes like it when he is my girlfriend, because I have to have someone to share everything with. Then there are other times when I wish that he were more Alpha like Scott is. I asked Ray if he knew why I was so attracted to Scott. Ray answered saying, "Because he is like the star quarter-back that all the girls want." I replied, "Hell yes he is!" And I told Ray that women like men who make them feel like women, and that he (Ray) didn't make me feel like a woman very often. Ray (can you guess) apologized.

The whole time we sat together on the couch and talked, Ray never once put his hand on me or tried to kiss me. And he didn't give me anything positive to think about him. That's what upsets me the most when I get like this. I down him and I want him to defend himself. I want him to give me positives. I want him to tell me, and convince me, that marrying him was not the wrong thing to do. And he doesn't. More often Ray just puts his head down and tells me that he isn't like other men,and can't be Scott or my LTR BF. He just tells me that if I want a divorce to just tell him. But I don't want to divorce Ray. I want him to make me feel loved and wanted and desirable and a like a woman. The way other men do.

That's all I'm saying.

Scott was much more open today, and he made time for me. And I loved that. I had to tell Ray afterward that although we spend a lot of time together, we (Ray and me) really aren't together together. We might be together, but Ray is often a million miles away and I feel completely alone. I know, "That's what other men are for," but I want that with my husband, not just with other men.

Am I wrong for wanting that? Am I being selfish? What?
 
(Ray and me) really aren't together together. We might be together, but Ray is often a million miles away and I feel completely alone. I know, "That's what other men are for," but I want that with my husband, not just with other men.
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Here you seem to want closeness and connectedness with Ray.

Here's how you describe how you behave:

  • The whole time we sat together on the couch and talked, Ray never once put his hand on me or tried to kiss me.

Knowing he is Beta type, did you ASK him to put his hand on you or kiss you? Asking for those things would help you achieve" closer and more connected" with him.)
  • I down him and I want him to defend himself.

How does this picking a fight behavior inspire "closer and more connected?" Sounds like bullying to me.

  • I want him to give me positives.

You do not see them for yourself? When you do not take the time to SEE your partner and notice him as he is and know him as he is -- How does this behavior inspire "closer and more connected?"

  • I want him to tell me, and convince me, that marrying him was not the wrong thing to do.

If you think it was wrong or no longer fits, he's willing to divorce. What's with this tantrum stuff? To you always take it there when there is conflict? Like "what did I even marry you for?" That not only gets old, it can erode goodwill between you.

  • And he doesn't.

Why would he when you are looking for a fight, downing him? Easier not to engage with a tantrum person.

  • I don't want to divorce Ray.

Then why behave this way toward him? :( How's that loving and kind behavior? I get a lot of things frustrate you, but how is berating your spouse supposed to help bring you closer and more connected?

  • I want him to make me feel loved and wanted and desirable and a like a woman.

Your emotional management is your job. He cannot make you feel things. If he could he'd wave his magic wand and make you feel happier. If you mean you want him to do certain things, you could learn to articulate the behaviors you would like in the form of a request. Here you seem to want mind rendering.

  • The way other men do.

You sound like you want him to be sexually demonstrative in a way his personality isn't. He might be able to change a bit to better accommodate and please you if you request and he's willing.

But he's never going to "turn alpha" for you if that goes against his grain. Accept it and for both your sakes make peace with it. He cannot be something he is not.

Find other solutions that are actually workable. This beating heads against brick walls -- not good for either. :(

Am I wrong for wanting that? Am I being selfish? What?
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I don't think you are wrong for wanting closeness and connectedness with your spouse. The way you go about it? I think it's messed up, and more alienating that bringing closer together. I am not surprised he withdraws from you when you behave this way.

Why would Ray want to relate MORE with you when you bully and like for fights like that? :( He sounds like he is always walking around on eggshells and his instinct is to apologize for everything so as not to piss you off anew. :(

There's better ways of going if your aim is to be closer. I hope you are able to find them so your relationship with Ray can improve. :(

When I realized what bank he was going to go to, I told Ray that bank was the better choice and all he had to do was tell me what he was thinking. Ray told me that when I asked him where he was going, to him it was a polite way for me to tell him that he was wrong. And he wasn't wrong. Where Ray was wrong was in thinking that I thought that he was wrong.
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You guys have some communication things going on there from the sound of it.

Ray is a wonderful man, and he has a lot of really good qualities, but he also has a lot of qualities that get on people's nerves. I have 12 notebooks that I have filled with problems that I would like to solve, between me and Ray, and issues that to this day have never been resolved. I talk to and with Ray about these notebooks and issues, a lot, but very little has ever been accomplished.
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Well, if you cannot solve it as the 2 of you alone, perhaps you need outside input? Ever consider a counselor and/or sex therapist since sex is a large feature here? Would you both be willing to try that at this point in time? I would suggest considering that approach. Twelve notebooks full is a LOT of problems.

GL!

Galagirl
 
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So, Deb, it sounds to me like you're saying that you'd like Ray to be more of a real man, who makes you feel like a real woman, because Ray is the man you married, and because Ray is the man who has the time to do those things for you. Am I on the right track?
 
I'm not sure I understand how he is supposed to feel better and stronger as a person when the central figure in his life keeps putting him down?
 
Galagirl:

I have been thinking that some type of therapy might be a good thing. We have talked about getting Ray on some Testosterone therapy as well.

Since Quality Time is huge for me, and Ray knows this, and we have talked about this many. many times, I would have thought that Ray would have learned something by now. As a matter of fact, when we left Scott's today, I told Ray that I didn't want him to be Scott. I just wanted him to learn something from Scott.

Okay, This has taken some time to write. Now Scott is coming to our house. He'll be here in about 20 minutes. Let's see how I think and feel afterward.

Well, Scott failed to show. He called and said he was on his way . . . then something came up. I texted Scott and asked him where he was. He texted back that something had come up. Ray told me that he wasn't surprised.

Ray and I had gone to Scott's workshop to see what he had already done with our rock. He texted and was all excited and wanted to show off his handy work. We were at Scott's workshop for over an hour. During that hour I played with Scott and showed him my breasts, and even Ray played with my breasts. Scott said he needed to get home and take a shower. I suggested we go to his place and shower together. Scott didn't go for that.

While we were hanging out at Scott's shop, Ray was a bit extroverted. When we left Scott's, I told Ray that I had thought that he was a little pushy with Scott, and may have scared him a little. Ray retorted, "But he is so masculine." I said, "Uh huh." I knew Ray was being sarcastic.

When Scott asked to reschedule, Ray said to me, "Pussy. Scott is such a scardy-cat." When we were at Scott's shop, Ray kind of ragged Scott for not coming to our house, when he wanted to match our rock to our house. I think that Ray intimidated Scott. Ray has a way of doing that to some guys.

Ray is very feminine around me, but he has this way of making other men, who are not as open, or experienced in the lifestyle, feel intimidated. I am hoping that Scott will eventually come to our house to play, but what I really want is his true friendship. And if he is really intimidated by Ray, that could be tough.

When Ray and I made love, since Scott failed to show, I told Ray that he had to step up his game. And he did. Ray got me off, for the first time ever. Ray got me off better than I do when I get myself off. I don't know if it was because I was aroused because I was thinking about Scott or what, but Ray out did himself.

The funny thing is, earlier when we were at Scott's, Scott had told Ray that every woman has her button, and you just have to know which one to push. Well, tonight Ray pushed my button. And I liked it. We joked about Viagra earlier, at Scott's, and Scott said he never needed Viagra. Well, neither did Ray last night. I am writing this on 9/29/14 in the AM.

There are times when Ray can be more of a man than usual. And last night I was glad he stepped up. Do I still wish that Scott had come over and pleased me, too. Yes. Of course. But as Ray said, "He hasn't been laid in five years. Now we know why. He can talk the talk, but when a real opportunity comes his way, he can't step up to play." I am hoping that Ray isn't right this time.

Last night Ray took complete control, and I loved that. I told Ray that was how I wanted him to be more often. That's when Ray went soft, and he hadn't even gotten off yet.

Earlier last night, I had mentioned that maybe a lot of men are intimidated by me, too, because I am so forward and sexual. Ray told me that he never had a problem playing with me. And I had to agree. Yes, Ray usually gets himself ready for me, but last night he let me help. And he made me help the way he wanted me to, and that turned me on, big time.

Night before last, when I was with Tom, it took me a while to get him to loosen up and play with me. He was kind of skiddish, at first, as well, but he came through, in a big way. I am hoping that Scott comes through just as well. I have a feeling that it is going to take a long time for that to actually happen, though.

Ray made love to me two more times last night. He didn't get me off again, but he felt amazing in me. And it is funny, Ray is only 3.5" long and 5.5" in circumference, totally erect, but last night he felt like he was a big as Scott, who is a bit thicker and about twice as long as Ray is.

I am thankful that while we were at Scott's that he let me suck him for a minute or two. I enjoyed him and he enjoyed me. Maybe that's all the further Scott and I will ever get, but if he and me and Ray can be friends through all of it, then mission accomplished.
 
kdt26417 said:
So, Deb, it sounds to me like you're saying that you'd like Ray to be more of a real man, who makes you feel like a real woman, because Ray is the man you married, and because Ray is the man who has the time to do those things for you. Am I on the right track?
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Yes
 
It sounds to me like Ray "puts his head down and says he can't be like other men" because instead of *encouraging* him to grow and learn new habits and behaviors, you berate and insult him when he doesn't exhibit the behavior you want.

Instead of motivating him to act the way you wish he would, you're reinforcing the way he does act. You're showing him that he isn't worth anything to you as a man and maybe not as a husband.

It isn't up to him to "make you feel like a woman." It isn't up to him to "convince you that you didn't make a mistake in marrying him." It sure as heck isn't up to him to defend himself when you put him down, because if you loved him like you claim, why would you be constantly putting him down in the first place? It's up to YOU to stop doing that to him, because that behavior on your part is making HIM feel worse and become less and less likely to ever try to stand up for himself against you.

It's like taking an abuse survivor, smacking them in the face, and telling them to hit you back. They CAN'T, because they've been trained that fighting back only makes things worse. And they've been trained to believe that they DESERVE IT. (Note that I am *not* saying Debbie's behavior is abusive. I am saying that Ray's mindset is similar to that of an abuse survivor when it comes to just accepting that he "isn't like other men" and "can't be what a woman wants.")

It's up to YOU to choose whether you can accept and love him as he is while encouraging him to find new patterns of behavior, or whether you're just going to keep putting him down and expecting him to stand up for himself, when every single time you do that to him, you're teaching him to just put his head down and accept being treated like crap. It's up to YOU to choose whether you want to teach him that he is worth being loved and treated well, or continue teaching him that he's worthless and deserves to be shit on.

HE is not the only problem here.

And I know that's harsh...but that's how I'm seeing it. Your entire thread seems to be about how he doesn't do what you want, doesn't do what you say, doesn't do what your other men do, and how you are angry and frustrated and put him down about it. Do you see how YOUR behavior contributes to HIS reactions?
 
KC43 said:
It sounds to me like Ray "puts his head down and says he can't be like other men" because instead of *encouraging* him to grow and learn new habits and behaviors, you berate and insult him when he doesn't exhibit the behavior you want.

Instead of motivating him to act the way you wish he would, you're reinforcing the way he does act. You're showing him that he isn't worth anything to you as a man and maybe not as a husband.

It isn't up to him to "make you feel like a woman." It isn't up to him to "convince you that you didn't make a mistake in marrying him." It sure as heck isn't up to him to defend himself when you put him down, because if you loved him like you claim, why would you be constantly putting him down in the first place? It's up to YOU to stop doing that to him, because that behavior on your part is making HIM feel worse and become less and less likely to ever try to stand up for himself against you.

It's like taking an abuse survivor, smacking them in the face, and telling them to hit you back. They CAN'T, because they've been trained that fighting back only makes things worse. And they've been trained to believe that they DESERVE IT. (Note that I am *not* saying Debbie's behavior is abusive. I am saying that Ray's mindset is similar to that of an abuse survivor when it comes to just accepting that he "isn't like other men" and "can't be what a woman wants.")

It's up to YOU to choose whether you can accept and love him as he is while encouraging him to find new patterns of behavior, or whether you're just going to keep putting him down and expecting him to stand up for himself, when every single time you do that to him, you're teaching him to just put his head down and accept being treated like crap. It's up to YOU to choose whether you want to teach him that he is worth being loved and treated well, or continue teaching him that he's worthless and deserves to be shit on.

HE is not the only problem here.

And I know that's harsh...but that's how I'm seeing it. Your entire thread seems to be about how he doesn't do what you want, doesn't do what you say, doesn't do what your other men do, and how you are angry and frustrated and put him down about it. Do you see how YOUR behavior contributes to HIS reactions?
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KC:

Last night, and even this morning, I told Ray that he really stepped up. I was impressed. Ray even got me off last night. And that is something he has never done before. We even made love again this morning.

I told Ray that I was bummed because Scott failed to show up last night, but I also liked the love making that Ray and I had. A lot!

I find that I am often critical of Ray. And I have noticed that I am a lot like my mother in that way. Nothing I ever did was good enough for my mother, even to this day.

Ray, my daughter, Ray's kids and my son have all told me that I am very critical of others. My daughter and Ray's daughter have both told me that I am very critical of Ray a lot of times, but I am not anywhere near as critical of my lovers. I know this.

My lovers see me at my best times. And Ray has stayed with me through all the good and the bad times. That means a lot to me, and I have told him that. I always ask Ray if I have told him that I love him lately, and he always says yes.

Ray and I talked a lot yesterday. I did tell Ray that I didn't feel safe with him, and that I felt that he would never protect me if the situation were to ever arise. I did tell him, though, that I see betas as buffers. My father was a beta and my mother was very much the Alpha of the family. Much like I am of mine.

I admitted to Ray that I always told him that I wanted him more involved in the bills and decision making, but I also liked that he wasn't. I admitted that I am an Alpha female and I like control. Ray told me, as he always has, that the only thing he wants in life is to be able to support his family and for me to be happy. And I respect that.

I told Ray this morning after we made love that, even with his tiny little penis, he is a very good lover.

I do have several notebooks that I have filled throughout the years of things I want me and Ray to work out, but Ray is too often a "was gonna" type of guy. I don't like "was gonna." And was gonna never accomplishes anything.

I did tell Ray yesterday that he has a lot of talents. I had asked my son to clean the toilets in all of the bathrooms, and they've not been done. I had to go out by myself for a while yesterday and I asked Ray to clean the toilets. I told Ray that was one of his better skills. I told Ray that I recognized that toilets, laundry and dishes are kind of his specialties.

Ray does go to work everyday, to a job that he hates, to provide for us. And that means a lot to me. Ray is also a pleaser. He wants to do whatever it takes to please me. I see myself as a pleaser as well, even with Ray. Especially with Ray. I cook for him, I tell him that I love him, I try to be sexual with him as often as I can. His happiness is important to me, too.

I think the biggest things between me and Ray is that we live on two different time lines, and his "was gonnas."

I constantly tell Ray that I love him. I always touch him and rub him. I tell Ray that I love his cute little penis. He actually told me that he likes me to say that. I tell Ray that he is attractive and that I find his body very attractive. I try to build him up. I tell him how I love that he is there for me when I need him. I tell Ray that he is my best girlfriend and a very good lover.

I tell Ray that he is my Sharp Dressed Man, my inspiration, my motivation, that he picks me up when I am down, that he is the most interesting man I have ever known. I have told Ray that I like that he is intellectual. I have told Ray that I like that he is slow to anger, supportive, forgiving, giving, that he calms me down when I am anxious.

Because Ray has always told me that he feels most loved when I have sex with other men, I do what I can to make Ray feel loved as often as possible.
When we have had men live with us, Ray was happiest because the other men wanted me, often, and I was always available to these other men.

I am not sure that Scott would be a good choice as a live-in lover, yet. And Tom is in a kind of bad marriage. My LDR BF is married as well. We actually have talked about, when Ray retires, running a "Home for Wayward Men." This would be a situation where men who are going through a divorce or are divorced and need someone to pick them up and feel good could come to our house and stay as long as they needed, and get sex from me. Ray and I would be like live sex therapist. And we both agree that would be a great thing for us to do, for others and for ourselves.

I'm not always a bitch to Ray. I admit I can be tough on him at times. And I think the reason that I am tough on Ray at times is because I know who he is, deep down inside, and I would like to see more of who I know he is and can be.
 
It sounds to me like your most winning strategy is to continue to pick out the things Ray does that you like and admire. And, you can especially praise him when he does manly behavior, when he is protective of you or puts his foot down. You can especially praise him when he does sex with you in the way that you like. By encouraging him, you will give him an internal guide that he can turn to that's fun to turn to. Then he's more likely to do the things that you like more often.

Now, don't be too "hard" on him about when his penis won't get hard at the right time. Erections aren't something a man can consciously choose to have. He can't say, "Okay, penis powers: activate!" and voilà! instant hard-on. An erection is a very subconscious (and biological) process. If Ray has baggage in his past that tells him he doesn't deserve to have praise and an erection at the same time, then he will have a hard time unpacking that baggage. So, maybe a (poly-friendly) therapist (and/or sex therapist) would help him in that area. But I don't think you'll see results overnight, and who knows, this baggage may be too deep-seated to ever unpack.

Perhaps most of all, the thing to do is to appreciate (and express appreciation for) the times when Ray *tries* to do what you like. Even if he messes it up somehow, try to just praise him for making the effort. Then he'll feel more encouraged to make more efforts in the future. With time and practice, I'm sure his efforts will pay off. He'll get better at it. You just have to be patient with him. He is a pleaser, right? So shower him with praise whenever he pleases you.

Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
kdt26417 said:
It sounds to me like your most winning strategy is to continue to pick out the things Ray does that you like and admire. And, you can especially praise him when he does manly behavior, when he is protective of you or puts his foot down. You can especially praise him when he does sex with you in the way that you like. By encouraging him, you will give him an internal guide that he can turn to that's fun to turn to. Then he's more likely to do the things that you like more often.

Now, don't be too "hard" on him about when his penis won't get hard at the right time. Erections aren't something a man can consciously choose to have. He can't say, "Okay, penis powers: activate!" and voilà! instant hard-on. An erection is a very subconscious (and biological) process. If Ray has baggage in his past that tells him he doesn't deserve to have praise and an erection at the same time, then he will have a hard time unpacking that baggage. So, maybe a (poly-friendly) therapist (and/or sex therapist) would help him in that area. But I don't think you'll see results overnight, and who knows, this baggage may be too deep-seated to ever unpack.

Perhaps most of all, the thing to do is to appreciate (and express appreciation for) the times when Ray *tries* to do what you like. Even if he messes it up somehow, try to just praise him for making the effort. Then he'll feel more encouraged to make more efforts in the future. With time and practice, I'm sure his efforts will pay off. He'll get better at it. You just have to be patient with him. He is a pleaser, right? So shower him with praise whenever he pleases you.

Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
Click to expand...


I do appreciate all that Ray does for me. I like when I come home and the house is clean and the dishes are done, and especially when the bathrooms are clean. I have lovers over while Ray is at work pretty often, and I like that Ray keeps the house very clean. And I tell him often how much I appreciate everything he does.

When Ray goes to the store, or goes to the gas station and fills up my gas tank, I tell him how much I appreciate him. When Ray and I tried to make love earlier, and he couldn't attain an erection, I told Ray how much I appreciate that he had forethought to buy rechargeable batteries for my vibrator.

I told Ray that my LDR BF was coming over today. And when Ray got home I told him how much I appreciated that he had changed the sheets on our bed.
When Ray got home I told him that my LDR BF, and three other men, had come to the house to play, and having clean sheets was very nice.

Every time that Ray attempts to make love to me, but can't get an erection, I tell him that I appreciate that he tried. Earlier tonight Ray tried to get it up for me but couldn't. I told Ray that I appreciated him trying, but I did have four other men and I got off alone with my vibrator. So, all was good.

I praised the hell out of Ray for getting me off last night, or when ever that was. I told him then that he was like a real man. And he kind of liked that. When Ray got home tonight he told me that he was almost finished with his third 64oz bottle of water for the day. I asked Ray why he didn't cum more after drinking all of that water. He said he didn't know. I told Ray that I loved what he did do, and that the other men I had been with had filled me nicely. So, he didn't have to.

I constantly praise Ray for all that he does that makes me happy. Having clean sheets today and clean toilets was really nice. And I told Ray how much I appreciated what he had done.

Before Ray left for work this morning, he shaved me. When Ray got home, I told Ray how good it felt to be shaved, and how much the other men appreciated him shaving me, too.

Before my LDR BF left today, he called Ray and told him that he appreciated him shaving me and how good I felt. My LDR BF, Roy, told Ray that not only did he cum harder than usual, but that I had as well. And he was right. Not only did Roy get me off twice, but the other three men got me off, too. That felt incredible. And I knew I had Ray to thank, in part, for me being able to orgasm with all four of the men I was with today. And I told Ray that, too.

Soon after Ray got home, I asked him if I could go down on him. And he let me. Ray never got hard, but it was fun trying to get him hard. And I told Ray that, too.

I tell Ray, daily how cute I think his penis is. And I always tell him how attractive he is. But Ray has a hard time accepting compliments. Although, that doesn't stop me from complimenting him. And because Scott didn't show up last night, I told Ray that it was because he allows me to have sex with other men that I was able to get off as often as I did today.

I thank Ray every day for allowing me to have sex with other men, and how happy he makes me because of that. I also thank Ray for allowing me to work only a couple days a week so that I have time to play with other men.

I do praise Ray for everything he does that makes me happy. Yet, I also let him know when he doesn't make me happy.

See? Ray and I both know that it is because of other men that we (me and Ray) are as happy as we are. Ray's happiness comes from my happiness, and my happiness comes from being able to play with other men.

I think that too often when I get angry with Ray it is because other men haven't pleased me enough. Or that I haven't had enough physical touch that isn't sexual. Roy was very touchy-feely today,which was very nice. And the other three men worked together to make sure I was pleased, in every way. So, when Ray got home, I just wanted to love him up.

I have been thinking that the best therapy for me and Ray would be to have another man move in with us. That way I would have a consistent lover and Ray would get to watch more often. It worked really well when we have had men live with us in the past.

The last time we had a guy living with us, he lived with us for almost three years. I loved it. The guy was Italian, exceptionally well built and well hung. He was very much an Alpha with a very high sex drive. And Ray didn't mind that he slept in our bed every night.

Ray enjoyed waking up in the middle of the night, every night, to me and our renter (who we never charged rent to) making love. Ray loved that when our renter got home everyday that I went down on him as soon as he walked in the door and sat on the couch. Ray also liked that our renter had just as high a sex drive as I do.

In the three years that our renter lived with us, he had his brother and several of the guys he worked with come to our house and play with me. And Ray got to see a lot of it. Ray and I both agree that those three years were the best three years of our relationship.

So, I am seriously thinking about bringing this up to Ray. I think that having an Alpha male in the house, 24/7, may be just what Ray and I both need. I will get sex often, hopefully every day, with this Alpha. He will share mine and Ray's bed with us. Our live-in would become my primary, because that worked with other men we've had living with us. And Ray would be able to learn a lot from him. I think that would be good for everyone involved.

When Ray and I have talked about this in the past, Ray has stated that the Alpha would have to be well hung and physically fit. And I agree. Age really doesn't matter to me, but to be honest, I like older men.

I intend to talk to Ray about this in the morning. The more I think about having another live-in lover, the more I like the idea. The last live-in we had became my primary, instantly. He was very masculine and was also very friendly toward Ray. Our last live-in pretty much took over the masculine role in our house, and I felt very much like a woman around him.

When our last renter lived with us, Ray liked how excited I got when I knew that our live-in was on his way home, or that he was bringing a friend or friends home to play with me. Ray also liked that our live-in would wake me up in the middle of the night to make love to me, something that Ray will not do.

Ray also liked that our live-in took on the role of Man of the House. Ray liked that he was able to take on the role of Man in Waiting. And I liked it all. I liked that our live-in was always available, sexually. And Ray liked that he got to watch me with our live-in and his friends, often. Ray also liked it that our live-in considered me and our house and our bedroom his while he lived with us. I kind of liked that, too.

I have found that when we have had other men live with us that Ray and I were always happy. And I appreciated Ray more when I had another man, an Alpha man, in the house. When we had Alpha men living with us, Ray and I were both able to take on very feminine roles. And I liked that.

I will talk to Ray in the morning and get back to you.


Debbie
 
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