I Wish my hubby was more like new boyfriend

[YouAreHere]

I started to quote, but it got pretty lengthy and I need to get my butt into work.

It seems as though the majority of your compliments to Ray are of the negative/positive type: break down, and build up. Is Ray really a cuckold, or is that the only way he gets praise (helping you get off with other guys)?

I agree with the person who suggested couple's therapy. Bringing a third in won't help you learn to talk to each other without the break down / build up cycle.

How about trying to praise him without tying it to anything else than "this made me happy - thank you." No tying it to other men, or something that could backhandedly say "too bad you couldn't get me off, but..." and see how he responds. Maybe he really likes the cuckolding, but it seems to me that his self-worth is so tied into it (only receiving praise as part of helping you out with other men, except for the time he got you off), I'm just not sure.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi Deb,

It sounds like having a "live-in Alpha" has worked well for you in the past, so sure; I'd say try that again. Perhaps you could do that in addition to a little couples therapy? I think that currently your method of guiding Ray's behavior is that of the ol' carrot and stick. Who's to say the carrot without the stick wouldn't work better? People tend to achieve more when they feel better about themselves overall. Ray probably knows by now what you don't like; just emphasize his good points, with extra showers of praise for any "manly man" type of behavior he exhibits.

He'll probably never be the full-fledged Alpha male you fantasize about. How can he with his mini member? but he can do behaviors that are a little more masculine with practice over time. Just keep encouraging him in that direction, eh?

Regards,
Kevin T.

 

[SNeacail]

I have been thinking that the best therapy for me and Ray would be to have another man move in with us.

WOW! REALLY? So, don't work on the communication issues you have with Ray, just move in a lover... Oh yeah, a real therapist would call you on your own shit! Can't have that, can we? It's so much easier to ignore all the real problems and just get more sex.

I agree with a previous poster, this whole situation sounds downright abusive.

 

[Dagferi]

WOW! REALLY? So, don't work on the communication issues you have with Ray, just move in a lover... Oh yeah, a real therapist would call you on your own shit! Can't have that, can we? It's so much easier to ignore all the real problems and just get more sex.

I agree with a previous poster, this whole situation sounds downright abusive.

I agree too....

 

[DebbieandRay]

I started to quote, but it got pretty lengthy and I need to get my butt into work.

(Response Part 1)
It seems as though the majority of your compliments to Ray are of the negative/positive type: break down, and build up. Is Ray really a cuckold, or is that the only way he gets praise (helping you get off with other guys)?

I agree with the person who suggested couple's therapy. Bringing a third in won't help you learn to talk to each other without the break down / build up cycle.

How about trying to praise him without tying it to anything else than "this made me happy - thank you." No tying it to other men, or something that could backhandedly say "too bad you couldn't get me off, but..." and see how he responds. Maybe he really likes the cuckolding, but it seems to me that his self-worth is so tied into it (only receiving praise as part of helping you out with other men, except for the time he got you off), I'm just not sure.

I talked with Ray quite a bit this morning. I told Ray that I though that having an Alpha male in the house would be good for both of us. And Ray agreed. I asked Ray what the one thing in life was that made him happiest. Ray told me that seeing me happy was that one thing. Without saying anything more, I asked Ray when the happiest times were for him and me. Ray said that when we had the Italian guy living with us for those three years or so were probably the best.

I asked Ray what made those years the best. And Ray told me that he liked his role during those times. He liked being a Man in Waiting. He liked having another man in the house as the Man of the House.

Ray said that the Italian guy, Antonio, was so masculine. His body was that of a martial artist. And Antonio was a third degree black belt. Ray said that he also liked Antonio's confidence and outgoing personality. Ray also liked that Antonio enjoyed playing with my breasts, that he has no real interest in, himself.

Ray also liked that Antonio had an ego, kind of. Antonio knew he was good looking. Even my girlfriends wanted to be with Antonio. And several of my friends were. Ray said that Antonio had this air about him. Like he was the most important person in the world, and with good reason.

Ray said that Antonio could play piano, and all the classics. And that Antonio was also able to play most anything on guitar. Antonio made Ray's guitars sound like he never had been able to. Antonio was a master martial artist and had a working knowledge of cars, electricity, computers, construction and plumbing. Ray said he liked hearing Antonio say, "A man knows how to be a man. And a real man knows that anything any other man can do, he can do better."

Ray liked that Antonio was into car racing and rock climbing and skydiving. Ray told me that he liked that Antonio took life by the horns and subdued it. Ray said that Antonio was the kind of guy that other men want to be.

Ray said that Antonio was the type of guy that knew what he wanted and how to get it. And that Antonio never took no for an answer. And I had to agree.

Ray told me that Antonio had it going on. He never showed any feminine emotions. Antonio was always out front and never held back his thoughts or words. And if he didn't like something, you knew it.

Ray said that he liked that Antonio made decisions and never once ever said, "What ever you want," to anyone. Antonio made decisions, and he never let others make decisions for him. I had to admit that I liked that about Antonio, too.

Ray told me what he liked most about Antonio was his ability to get women to do anything he wanted them to do. Ray said that he was always impressed at how many women threw themselves at him, something Ray has never experienced himself.

Ray told me that he remembered how my two best girlfriends were willing to and tried everything to impress Antonio. They knew he was a catch, and that they would have to earn him.

Ray told me that Antonio was the kind of guy that never apologized for who he was or what he liked or wanted. I liked that about Antonio, too, since Ray has always apologized pretty much for living. The one thing I remember liking about Antonio was that he never said, "Is that okay with you?" Ray will not make any decision without consulting me first, and often will bow to me and what I want. I hate that.

Ray said that all of Antonio's friends were like him. They either owned their own businesses, or they were successful financially, and they all had beautiful women around them, all the time.

Ray said that he liked that Antonio always had it together. He was always calm, no matter what the decision, never rushed anything and was always calculated in everything he said and did, and Antonio knew that women wanted him.

Ray said that Scott is a lot like Antonio in that he makes me go to him. That he makes the time for me when it suits him. Ray said that is a very Alpha characteristic. And I had to agree.

Ray said that Antonio was dominant without being a bully. And that Antonio made both me and Ray feel safe when we were with him. Ray stated that if anything were to ever go on where someone had to be the protector, that Antonio would have been that man. Ray was right again.

Ray said the best part about having Antonio live with us was that Antonio made the decisions. He decided where we went and when. Antonio never really asked if what he wanted to do was okay, he just did it. And I have to admit that was something I liked about Antonio, too.

Ray told me that Antonio had all the traits he always wished he had, but didn't. And I agreed that Ray has none of the characteristics that Antonio had.

 

[DebbieandRay]

I started to quote, but it got pretty lengthy and I need to get my butt into work.

It seems as though the majority of your compliments to Ray are of the negative/positive type: break down, and build up. Is Ray really a cuckold, or is that the only way he gets praise (helping you get off with other guys)?

I agree with the person who suggested couple's therapy. Bringing a third in won't help you learn to talk to each other without the break down / build up cycle.

How about trying to praise him without tying it to anything else than "this made me happy - thank you." No tying it to other men, or something that could backhandedly say "too bad you couldn't get me off, but..." and see how he responds. Maybe he really likes the cuckolding, but it seems to me that his self-worth is so tied into it (only receiving praise as part of helping you out with other men, except for the time he got you off), I'm just not sure.

(Response Part 2)


I told Ray that Antonio, on a sexual level, was only maybe 4-5 inches longer and maybe 2-3 inches thicker than he is. Ray said that Antonio had a great body, a nice cock, confidence, and that Antonio knew that whatever he wanted that he could have. And I agreed.

Ray had me sit next to him at his desk, and he pulled up a site that had a list of what characterizes a man as an Alpha male. We read through them and both Ray and I agreed that Ray has none of those characteristics.

Ray said that having another man around the house like Antonio would be nice. And I agreed.

I asked Ray why he felt that he didn't have any Alpha qualities. Ray thought for a while, then said that he had always been feminine, and that he had this respect for men who were not like him, mostly because they beat him up all the way through school. Ray said that he fears most men,and because of that respects them.

Ray said that all through school he was known as and called a faggot and a sissy. So, he lived up to that. Ray said that until he met his ex-wife, he had only been intimate with, and had intercourse with, one girl, and she had told him that she'd wished she hadn't wasted her time with him.

From age 11 to age 19, when Ray married his ex-wife, Ray had only had sex with men, and he was a bottom. Ray said he liked having sex with dominant men because they made him feel like a woman, a feeling he really liked. I told Ray that I knew that feeling all too well.

Ray said that he liked that the men he had sex with knew what they wanted and made him do what ever they wanted him to do. and he liked giving them that control. I told Ray that I liked doing that,too.

Ray told me that he liked when Antonio called me his. And I liked that, too.

Ray told me that he understood that I wanted him to learn from other men, and to learn how to be more like them, but that he already learned a lot from other men, especially the men who had topped him.

Ray said that most all of the men he had sex with were a lot like Antonio in so many ways. And he liked that about them, and how they treated him.

Ray said that having a man tell him to go down on him was an awesome feeling, and then for the man to spread his legs and do to him what he wanted was the ultimate. I told Ray that I liked that about Antonio and about my LDR BF and other lovers I have been with.

Ray told me that having another man like that around the house would make him very happy, that he would like to see me give complete control to another man, who would be the Man of our house.

I asked Ray if I ever made him feel like less of a man. Ray told me that he never felt less of a man. He knew he was. Ray said that other guys used to f**k the girls he dated but never had sex with, and he understood why.

Ray said that being afraid of other men, as well as having a penis that is only 3.5" when it is fully erect has not helped.

Ray told me that his parents told him never to fight,because it only brought him down to the other boy's level. And Ray's mom has confirmed this. When I had asked Ray's mom why she and Ray's father never wanted him to defend himself, she answered, "because he was my only son, my little boy. and I didn't want him to be like those other boys. I wanted him to grow up and be a gentleman, a man of men." Well, that kind of happened.

Ray has more suits than any man I have ever met, and a shoe collection 100 times the size of mine. Ray is a gentleman, to a fault. Ray is a good listener, yet, too often he doesn't hear what I say. And Ray is not masculine in any way.

Ray told me this morning that he has always been a woman, just that he had a penis, and a very small one at that. Ray said that when he grew up that he loved the feel of nylons, and he wore them a lot. Ray also said that until he met me he often wore silk, women's panties because of how they felt on him. Hell, the first time I met Ray he was wearing a broomstick skirt. What does that say?

I asked Ray if he could have anything in the world, what would it be? Ray quickly answered, "For you to be happy." I asked Ray if it would make him happy if we had an Alpha male living with us again, and he said yes.

So, Ray and I decided to put an ad on Craigslist and see who responds. When we found Antonio it was through a Craigslist ad. So, it might work for us again. Before we found Antonio, we had several men, maybe 50, come to the house to see the room we had or rent. Ray and I had agreed that I would have sex with each one to make sure that they would be good lovers for me, as well as men Ray would like to have around the house all the time.

I enjoyed the sex with most all of the men who came to see the room we had for rent, but none of the men were like Antonio. When Antonio came to our house I was impressed with his looks and the way he held himself. He exuded confidence and simply asked, "So, what benefits do I get if I move in?" I quickly answered, "You get to have me."

Antonio stepped back and looked at me. He told me that he was a no nonsense kind of guy, and that if I am offering myself that I better mean it. And I did. Antonio asked if me and Ray were married, and at that time we weren't. I said no. Antonio stated, "Then there is no competition." Antonio then told Ray to undress me so that he could get a good look at me. And so Ray undressed me.

Once I was standing in front of Antonio, completely naked, Antonio told me to make him want to live with us. I looked at Ray and he made a head motion for me to go to Antonio. So, I did. And I got on my knees and unzipped Antonio's pants and reached in. I quickly realized that Antonio was much bigger soft than Ray ever was hard.

As I was looking at Antonio's cock, he asked if there was a problem. I said no. Then Antonio asked me what I was waiting for. I told Antonio that I wasn't waiting for anything. Antonio then said, "Then do what you know is right, and suck me." Right then both me and Ray knew there was something very special about Antonio.

As I was sucking Antonio, he talked dirty to me, which I love. After a while, Antonio told me that he wanted to know how good I was in other ways. He then asked where my bedroom was. and I led him to it.

Antonio spend a lot of time eating me and licking me and kissing me and fondling me, which I also loved. When Antonio finally got between my legs and slid his cock into me, he felt like a horse. He stretched me and filled me in way I hadn't been in a long time.

Antonio did me missionary, then doggie, then had me suck him again, then he had me doggie again, then he laid on top of me and f**ked my mouth, then he did me on the edge of the bed, then doggie again before he came in me.

After Antonio had cum in me, I asked him if he was still interested in the room we had for rent. Antonio paused for a minute, looked at Ray, then at me. Then Antonio told me that he would have to think about it, and that he would let us know. In the mean time we had other men try out for the room mate position. None of them compared to Antonio.

A week and a half later Antonio called and said he wanted to see me and Ray again and talk about the room we had for rent. Ray and I were both excited. Ray had wanted Antonio to move in with us as much as I did.

When Antonio showed up at our door and walked into our living room, I told Antonio that I was glad to see him again. Antonio made a motion toward his crotch and said, "And?" I looked at Ray and Ray smiled. I had Ray shut our front door and I took off my dress I was wearing. I then got on my knees and went down on Antonio. As soon as I had Antonio in my mouth, he said, "This will have to be a must." I said, "Mmm hmmm."

Antonio told us that he was interested in the room we had for rent, but he would only store his things in that room, and that he would sleep with me in our bed. I agreed to that, and so did Ray.

Ray and I decided this morning that we both want that again. I will be putting an ad on Craigslist and we will see who responds. We will go through the same process we did the last time. Every guy that shows up to look at the room will get to have sex with me. And the right guy will get to move in and have all marital rights with me.

I think this is going to be fun.

 

[YouAreHere]

Okay, so no mention of going to counseling?

The rest of this reads like a cuckolding bodice-ripper, and the cynical side of me is wondering if we're an audience for your erotica.

If the story is true, then I hope he does get some counseling. I'm thinking that individual counseling might be best at this point.

 

[DebbieandRay]

Okay, so no mention of going to counseling?

The rest of this reads like a cuckolding bodice-ripper, and the cynical side of me is wondering if we're an audience for your erotica.

If the story is true, then I hope he does get some counseling. I'm thinking that individual counseling might be best at this point.

What is it about my relationship with my husband that you feel requires counseling?

Yesterday we talked at length about what he wanted and what I liked. Ray and I talk a lot. We do know that we need to work on more communication than just talking, but what specifically do you see as needing counseling?

 

[A2Poly]

(Response Part 1)

Communication between me and my husband has never been an issue.
...

Ray is a wonderful man, and he has a lot of really good qualities, but he also has a lot of qualities that get on people's nerves. I have 12 notebooks that I have filled with problems that I would like to solve, between me and Ray, and issues that to this day have never been resolved. I talk to and with Ray about these notebooks and issues, a lot, but very little has ever been accomplished.

...

Where Ray was wrong was in thinking that I thought that he was wrong.

I don't think you are *communicating*, I think you are *talking*. If you were communicating problems would be getting solved, and you would be moving forward with your relationships, not just repeating the same pattern over and over.

Counselling might help you learn some new ways of communicating with each other do that he can learn to hear 'where are you going' as a request for info, and not a rebuke.

 

[KC43]

What is it about my relationship with my husband that you feel requires counseling?

Yesterday we talked at length about what he wanted and what I liked. Ray and I talk a lot. We do know that we need to work on more communication than just talking, but what specifically do you see as needing counseling?

Your husband seems to think that he's worthless, useless, and deserves to be treated badly and to be ignored in favor of "real men." Counseling could help him improve his self-image and learn other ways of acting and interacting. Based on what you've said about what he experienced as a teen and in his first marriage, there may also be a PTSD component to how he deals with things, and counseling would definitely help that.

Counseling might help you learn to interact with your husband without reinforcing his negative self-image and without believing that treating him harshly will somehow force him to be what you want.

 

[GalaGirl]

What is it about my relationship with my husband that you feel requires counseling?

Ray is a wonderful man, and he has a lot of really good qualities, but he also has a lot of qualities that get on people's nerves. I have 12 notebooks that I have filled with problems that I would like to solve, between me and Ray, and issues that to this day have never been resolved. I talk to and with Ray about these notebooks and issues, a lot, but very little has ever been accomplished.

If you two cannot solve twelve notebooks on your own, you guys could consider employing professional help since you seem to want to solve them.

Galagirl

 

[kdt26417]

I'm awfully curious and have to ask ... You said Antonio was with you and Ray for three or so years. It sounds like those years were great for all three of you. Is that true? If it is, well ... why did Antonio leave?

I hope you find whatever you seek, be it a manly man to live with you, or solving those twelve notebooks of "Ray problems," or both. Keep us posted.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[YouAreHere]

Basically, I think GalaGirl, KC43, and A2Poly have had good responses to your question, Debbie. In addition:

Ray, my daughter, Ray's kids and my son have all told me that I am very critical of others. My daughter and Ray's daughter have both told me that I am very critical of Ray a lot of times, but I am not anywhere near as critical of my lovers. I know this.

Maybe a third party can communicate in a less-critical way. Maybe the criticism makes all the compliments seem backhanded and demeaning (IMO):

I did tell Ray that I didn't feel safe with him, and that I felt that he would never protect me if the situation were to ever arise.

even with his tiny little penis, he is a very good lover.

I asked Ray to clean the toilets. I told Ray that was one of his better skills.

When Ray and I tried to make love earlier, and he couldn't attain an erection, I told Ray how much I appreciate that he had forethought to buy rechargeable batteries for my vibrator.

How on earth is his self-worth ever to be built up hearing things like that?

A BIG, BIG reason for it, though, is this:

I asked Ray why he felt that he didn't have any Alpha qualities. Ray thought for a while, then said that he had always been feminine, and that he had this respect for men who were not like him, mostly because they beat him up all the way through school. Ray said that he fears most men,and because of that respects them.

Ray said that all through school he was known as and called a faggot and a sissy. So, he lived up to that. Ray said that until he met his ex-wife, he had only been intimate with, and had intercourse with, one girl, and she had told him that she'd wished she hadn't wasted her time with him.

From age 11 to age 19, when Ray married his ex-wife, Ray had only had sex with men, and he was a bottom. Ray said he liked having sex with dominant men because they made him feel like a woman, a feeling he really liked. I told Ray that I knew that feeling all too well.

He was bullied, beaten up, and belittled all through school, and from your words, it sounds like he was sexually active since age 11? As a parent, I am cringing on the inside. He seems to have never had much self-worth, period, and judges himself based on the opinions of others in a "what they say, I must be" type of way. This is a man who could benefit from counseling.

 

[DebbieandRay]

I'm awfully curious and have to ask ... You said Antonio was with you and Ray for three or so years. It sounds like those years were great for all three of you. Is that true? If it is, well ... why did Antonio leave?

The three years that Antonio lived with us were awesome. I know that everyone was happy. The reason that Antonio left was because he got promoted in his company and had to move to Florida. If that had never occurred, I am pretty sure that the three of us would still be together.

I still stay in contact with Antonio through text and phone. He is living with another couple who are much like me and Ray. Through phone and Email I have gotten to know the couple that Antonio has been living with. The couple that Antonio has been living with, Amy and Allen, have said the same thing about their relationship since Antonio has been with them as we did when he was living with us.

Amy and Allen have both said that their marital relationship has been amazing since Antonio became part of their relationship.

I don't think that having Antonio in our life was an accident. I know that we all learned from each other and knew what happiness was.

 

[kdt26417]

Sounds like your time spent with Antonio was beneficial all-around.

I find that it is hard to determine where the "Nature-made Ray" (made by his genes) ends and the "Nurture-made Ray" (made by his environment) begins. He might have grown up to be a very effeminate man even if he hadn't suffered all that abuse as a kid. Who knows? In any case, fear is a poor foundation for respect. Admiration of one's character is a better foundation.

So Ray is not a tough guy. Is he a good man? Does he have admirable attributes? Is he honest? Does he stand by his principles? Is he loving? What did you like about him in the beginning that led you to decide to marry him? There must have been something.

 

[IndieSolo]

Debbie, I find your posts so interesting! I doubt if I could ever live the kind of lifestyle you do, but your story is compelling and just goes to show how differently people can find satisfaction in their relationships! The world is quite diverse and I hope you realize how lucky you are to live in a culture where you are not stoned to death for the ways in which you express your sexuality. I look forward to reading more about your relationships.

 

[DebbieandRay]

Basically, I think GalaGirl, KC43, and A2Poly have had good responses to your question, Debbie.

Maybe a third party can communicate in a less-critical way. Maybe the criticism makes all the compliments seem backhanded and demeaning (IMO):

He was bullied, beaten up, and belittled all through school, and from your words, it sounds like he was sexually active since age 11? As a parent, I am cringing on the inside. He seems to have never had much self-worth, period, and judges himself based on the opinions of others in a "what they say, I must be" type of way. This is a man who could benefit from counseling.

(Response Part 1)
I am considering all of the responses I have received on this subject. And I thank all of you for responding.

I went through some things that I had written down and shared with Ray recently. These were thoughts that just went through my mind that I wanted to share with Ray. And I do this a lot to try to spur conversation and communication between the two of us.

1. Your answer for everything is "I don't know." It makes you seem like a moron when you never know anything. Why do you do that?

2. You are always apologizing for not being supportive enough. How do we change that so that you are more supportive?

3. You say you want to provide for your family. Who do you consider your family?

4. Your philosophy of life is "Just go along for the ride and enjoy it." Who is driving? Where are you going in life?

5. I can kiss you. I can f**k you. I can even marry you, legally, but what makes any of it mean something, anything?

6. Whenever I need your help you always play helpless. I know you aren't helpless. Why do you act that way?

7. When I tried to lay my head on your chest, you seemed emotionless. You rarely show me any emotions. Why? Why can't you let me in your life?

8. When you first met Scott and he played with me, you saw him, but you didn't? what happened there?

9. You say "Sorry" all the time,but you never try to fix things so you don't have to apologize going forward. Why?

10. You never ask how I am doing or how my day was. You just assume that I will tell you, but when I do tell you , you say I am always complaining. That's why I don't want to tell you about my day. Do you think that's right?

11. You seem to always be wallowing in your own self pity, that I often feel you don't care how I feel? Is that really the case?

These are questions I had in one day. And I have questions like this every day. These are thoughts and concerns I want to share with Ray to better understand him and where we are going as a couple.

I told Ray yesterday that I wanted him to kiss me and hug me when he got home. He had to work very late last night and I knew that he would probably not get home until after midnight. It was 1:20AM this morning when I walked out to the office and saw Ray at his desk.

I told Ray that I was disappointed in him because I had asked him to wake me and kiss me when he got home. He said that he stood at the bedroom door for a few minutes and thought that I was asleep, and because I have not been sleeping well, he didn't want to wake me. I told Ray that I asked one simple thing of him, and he couldn't do it.

Ray, of course, apologized and got up from his desk and hugged and kissed me. That's all I wanted from him. I told Ray that I hadn't been asleep and what I really needed was him to love me, and he failed me again. I was hurt and I wanted him to know it.

To me the most important part of any relationship is open and honest communication. I was open and honest with Ray when I told him that I was disappointed in him. I don't think I was wrong.

I reminded Ray that when Antonio lived with us, and he came home late, that he not only woke me up by kissing me and fondling me, he cared enough to want me to be awake for him. And that meant a lot to me. I don't think that is wrong, either.

My biggest demand of Ray is for him to want to know me and to love me. We have been together for about eight years, and he still really doesn't know me.

Ray often assumes that he knows what I like or want, or what I am thinking, and usually he is wrong. Instead of apologizing all the time, I would love for Ray to ask me what I want or what I am thinking. Ray says he wants to make me happy, but he rarely asks me what I want or what really makes me happy.

I asked Ray this morning if he ever thought he could be the man he thinks I want him to be. And Ray said, "I try. I really do." Then he said "And I am so sorry I am not the man you need me to be most of the time." Ray didn't ask me what I wanted. He just apologized for not being what he thinks I want him to be.

I found something that Ray wrote to me some years back. The following is what Ray had written . . .

"Debbie, I know you love me and enjoy making love with me,but when I want it, I feel I am being a bother. Last night and this morning me playing with myself, in bed with you was me being forward. I knew that was a sucky way of letting you know that I wanted you. And I know I have not been good at being forward for a long time.

I know you want me to be aggressive, and I hope to someday feel comfortable being forward. I know it takes a certain type of guy to excite a woman and make her feel wanted. I want to be that guy for you.

We both have feelings of inadequacy. I can't explain why I feel inadequate or a bother, other than I don't want to be a bother. Hell, my mom is the same way, and she is in her 70s. I 'm sure I learned a lot about being a bother from my mom, and from T.

I know that being a bother also comes from being married to T and the poly people we knew and hung out with. My mother telling me that sex was a chore for women didn't help either. It is hard to be aggressive with the past I have had. I know you have never said no to me, but I have always felt that when a man wants sex with a woman that he is being a bother.

My whole life people told me that I thought too much about sex, and sometimes I forget that you are a lot like me in that way. I don't know if I will ever not feel like a burden when I want sex. I have trouble asking for anything, sexually or otherwise. You know that.

My entire life I have had to do everything by myself. No one ever helped me move, or whatever. One of the reasons that I have never had a friend is because I have never wanted to put myself in a position where I would end up owing anyone anything. I have never wanted to be dependent on anyone for anything.

I know I have a very small penis, and that is why I have tried to be very good with what I have. I know that you love me and you love my penis. And I am proud of my size, but I do often feel inadequate.

I know I have some very good qualities, but how much do they really matter? I know that you don't feel safe with me, and I wish that I could change that, but I know that I can't change how anyone feels about anything. I, too, wonder why you want to marry me. What do I have to offer that other men don't?

Last night and this morning you felt unloved because I didn't act on my desires. I know that most men would and do act on their desires, and women like you love that. Other women don't love that, though. You know I am used to women hating me for having the same desires other men have.

You tell me to finger you, to kiss and fondle you, to "prepare the runway." And I know you want to make love with me, often. And although you often say that sex with me is amazing, I sometimes wonder.

It's odd that I have always felt that other men deserve sex, even with you, simply because they have a cock. And you have/do feel other men deserve sex as well. Yet, I do not see myself, often,as being worthy of sex.

When me and T were heavily involved in teh poly community and went to sex parties, I saw that only the bigger cocked men got sex. I witnessed this for two decades. So, my thoughts are a bit tainted.

I guess that sex to me is like food. I want to make sure everyone else gets what they want or need, even if it means that I have to go without. I am not sure if I am ashamed of having desires or not. The teachings I learned from Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh stated that desire is a sign of weakness. I fight with those feelings often.

Debbie, you have even said that men who have desires often appear desperate. What makes me any different from other men in that manner?

What makes one man's sexual desire good and another man's sexual desire bad? And does your love for one man make him worthy, or a better lover, simply because of your love for him? If you have sex with a man you don't love, does that mean that since you don't love him that he can't be a good lover?

What I am trying to figure out is why I deserve sex, and why you want and enjoy sex with me.

You asked me how you could help me not feel that I was a bother to you. Right now, you answering my questions is a good start.

I have always wanted to be better than other men, and in trying to do so I emmasculated myself. And too many times I have been told that I would make a good wife for someone someday. And that sucks.

I do not feel unloved. I just wonder what makes me worthy of your love. And since other men love you as well, how am I supposed to love you differently?

I know I need to be more loving and attentive, aggressive and complimenting. I know I need to do much, much better in those areas. And I do not have a good reason as to why I have not been. I also know that I am not great at relationships. I know I am capable of doing better. I just have to do better."

 

[DebbieandRay]

Basically, I think GalaGirl, KC43, and A2Poly have had good responses to your question, Debbie. In addition:

Maybe a third party can communicate in a less-critical way. Maybe the criticism makes all the compliments seem backhanded and demeaning (IMO):

How on earth is his self-worth ever to be built up hearing things like that?

He was bullied, beaten up, and belittled all through school, and from your words, it sounds like he was sexually active since age 11? As a parent, I am cringing on the inside. He seems to have never had much self-worth, period, and judges himself based on the opinions of others in a "what they say, I must be" type of way. This is a man who could benefit from counseling.

(Response Part 2)

The above was written by Ray on September, 12, 2006. And not a lot has changed. I compliment Ray as often as I can. I constantly tell Ray how attractive he is. I even tell him that of all the cocks I have had, I love his the most. And nothing has helped to make any changes.

I have asked Ray why he doesn't do anything to make the changes he says he wants in his life, or in our relationship, and too often his answer is, "I don't know." That is Ray's answer for/to everything. That is what really started my thought that started this thread.

I love Ray with all my heart and soul. I just get frustrated with his I don't knows and was gonnas.

 

[SNeacail]

I don't quite understand why you keep sharing all the lists of things you have said and what his response was, from conversations that took place 8 years ago (did you write it all down so you could hold it over his head or something), as a defense against counseling. To me, it just enforces my opinion that you do need to seek out counseling. You seem to think this only has to do with sex and the size of your partners cock - it's much bigger than that. Sure Ray's happier when you have a lover with a great big cock, you're less of a bitch to him. That doesn't change the fact that he seems to have a great many self-esteem issues (at the least) or that the two of you talk a lot, but don't actually communicate.

 

[kdt26417]

Re (from DebbieandRay):

"Your answer for everything is 'I don't know.' It makes you seem like a moron when you never know anything. Why do you do that?"

LOLOL, was his answer "I don't know?"

Re:

"You never ask how I am doing or how my day was. You just assume that I will tell you, but when I do tell you, you say I am always complaining. That's why I don't want to tell you about my day. Do you think that's right?"

Are your days mostly negative or mostly positive? If mostly positive, do you characterize them that way when you're telling Ray about them?

All in all, you listed 11 questions that you asked Ray recently. All of them seemed like important (if aggressively-worded) questions to me. Can you tell me what Ray's answers were?

Re:

"I told Ray yesterday that I wanted him to kiss me and hug me when he got home."

Wait, are you sure you told him to wake you as well if necessary?

I am wondering if Ray would do better with written instructions? Seriously ...

Re:

"To me the most important part of any relationship is open and honest communication."

Yes, but: there are kind and unkind ways to be honest. It's usually harder to be kind and it takes practice and effort, but it's important and worthwhile.

Re:

"We have been together for about eight years, and he still really doesn't know me."

What are the most important things that he doesn't know?

Re:

"Ray says he wants to make me happy, but he rarely asks me what I want or what really makes me happy."

Have you told him this? If so, what was his answer?

Re:

"What makes one man's sexual desire good and another man's sexual desire bad?"

That's a pretty heavy question.

Thank you for sharing Ray's letter to you from 2006. I feel like I know a bit more of Ray's side of the story now. I think we (on this thread) need to know what you and Ray both have to say.

I know it's stating the obvious, but it's worth pointing out that no one I know has a perfect relationship. Everyone does things that bug their partner/s, even though their partner/s may love them dearly in spite of that. So in a way, it is okay if Ray bugs you in some ways -- as long as you are happy with him overall. Are you?

I have to agree with the others who suggested getting counseling. Individual counseling for Ray, and couples counseling for you and Ray. I have links you can use to seek out poly-friendly counselors if you're interested.

The dialog on this thread is probably helpful, so let's keep that going. But you also need a professional therapist to really take the time to dig deep into the issues that are haunting Ray and bothering you. You and Ray have years of stuff to sort through. We can do some of that here, but some should be done in a counselor's office as well. Just my opinion.