New to this, doing well w/ reservations but still some struggling

[hislittlekitten]

Hey everyone.

I'm new. 28-y/o monogamous female currently involved with a polyamorous male who has a girlfriend and is considering opening up to more partners.

This is so very new to me. I've always been monogamous and don't intend to find new partners, though I could be convinced to very casually date other men while remaining involved with this poly male.

I am posting here and wanting to view this as a resource because I never intended on polyamory being something I must learn about and accept. When we first became involved, I thought it would be little more than a fling; instead, feelings happened. He started telling me he cared, then I began to realize that I too cared. I almost ended it when he first started telling me his feelings because I was scared of what it meant if feelings are involved.

More background on him: going through a divorce, has children, will soon be living closer to me, already has relatives living close to me (as in, within walking distance). Early 30s, so close enough to my age range (ideal for my age range actually as people 4-7 years older seem to be the type I get along with best).

I have chosen to accept polyamory as his lifestyle and carry on with him. It is still unclear to me after our recent rocky conversations whether or not he intends to move forward, but we are meeting soon and it seems as though he is - although when I ask him if he believes me that I will accept polyamory as his lifestyle, that he says that he wants to see how things go when we see each other next.

Here are the things I struggle with:

• I'm not comfortable with being 'secondary' in the long term. I can accept that it may take time to develop, but in the meantime, I do not want to be unnecessarily or frequently reminded of my 'secondary' status, which leads into...
• I want a high degree of privacy in our relationship; I am certainly not opposed to sharing any and all test results, nor do I have any issues discussion things with him (in fact I have probably shared opinions too quickly and intensely), but I do not want to hear about his sexual adventures with the gf nor do I want him to share such details about me with her.
• I think he's overloading himself; he is new to polyamory and has in the past expressed he would not seek out more than a relationship (me) outside of his current gf, but he recently mentioned that he is considering more.
• He does not trust that I am accepting of his choice for polyamory. This lack of trust really bothers me because our trust was strong in the beginning. Also, I've worked really hard - including attending counseling and doing a lot of evaluation from within - to come to the conclusion that at this point I'm okay with him being polyamorous. I have had a short timeline to think about this and I feel like he has not been patient with my questions, fears, concerns, etc. and takes it too personally that I struggled to accept it up to now. I have admittedly picked fights over my worries, but I think I'm over that phase and have a better understanding of his communication style and why addressing my concerns escalated into arguments instead of resulting in constructive conversation.

I think I've done a pretty good job in the last month-to-five-weeks of coming to a place where I can accept his choice for polyamory. I have never really had an intellectual problem with it; I tend to handle most things in a logical fashion, to a fault almost, and logically I find few true qualms that can't be addressed. I do struggle emotionally and I am working on those things; I'm re-learning what love means and that it isn't just monogamous commitment, which as you all may realize, has been drilled into our heads since a very early age.

Really, I could run right now. I could end it and go through a period of hurt, but not feel bad about it. I am not hurting for attention from men, but this man certainly has my heart.

I feel like there are few resources out there for monogamists who are involved with polyamorists, so thank you for listening and I'm happy to hear thoughts. Please be kind - this has been tough!

 

[KC43]

We have some mono folk on this board who are involved with poly folk. At least one or two of them have blogs in our blog section, so I'd strongly suggest checking those out. (You'll know one of the blogs by its title.)

As for the rest of your concerns:

You could express to him that you do not wish to be reminded that you're secondary. You're okay with *being* it, at least at first, you just don't want to hear about it. And you could ask for some assurance from him that he's open to your relationship developing past the "she's first, you're second" stage.

You unquestionably have the right to set boundaries as far as what he does or doesn't share with you about his other partner(s), and boundaries as far as what he does or doesn't share *about* you. This is something to discuss with him, something like, "Please don't give me details about your sex life with others, and please keep what happens between us, between us."

You could express to him that you're concerned if he takes on other partners, he may not have the time and energy for your relationship. I would say it really isn't your call as to whether he's overextending; that's his decision and something he would need to recognize for himself. But you can express your concerns about how taking on other partners might affect *your* relationship.

The only thing I can suggest about the lack of trust is to just keep assuring him that you have done the work and want to be okay with it. Speaking from my own experiences, sometimes saying you *want* to be okay with it and are willing to do what it takes to be okay sounds more honest and is more easily believed than saying you *are* okay with it when you weren't before.

You're on a steep learning curve, and it sounds like you've done a lot of work, research, and self-exploration to arrive at the point you're at. Kudos to you for that; some people dive in head first without taking the time to understand what they're getting into, and then can't understand why things aren't working.

But this, like any relationship whether mono or poly, is a work in progress. As long as you have an open line of communication with your partner, you'll be able to address issues as they arise.

Monogamy is the default, at least in our society, but one way to look at it is that while time and attention might be finite, love is infinite. Him loving his girlfriend doesn't take away any love from you; him loving you doesn't take away any love from her. Adjusting to having a partner who isn't available every time you want him to be can be tough, but maybe it helps to remember that even when he isn't with you, he loves you.

 

[kdt26417]

Hi hislittlekitten,

The four concerns you mentioned are legitimate concerns. The first two are areas where either you and he are compatible or aren't; you have to talk and see if your plans and expectations line up (or at least can line up).

The last two areas can get messy. You accept his choice for polyamory, yet you also think he's overloading himself. Which may be true, but he might not see it that way. He might think that if you're questioning the load he wants to shoulder, that means you're questioning his choice for polyamory. He shouldn't mix the two issues but there's a good chance that he will. You may have to patiently explain to him, "No, it's not that I have a problem with polyamory, it's that time and energy are finite resources even if love is an infinite resource."

You probably need to have some more conversations with this man to see if you and he can get along well as time goes forward. Hopefully the answer will be yes.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

 

[billypi]

Hello, HLK. I'm in a similar situation. Mono male dating a married poly female.

I've done a lot of reading the last month-and-a-bit. A lot of websurfing. A lot of soul-searching.

I've got a blog in the blog section, it might help; you can PM me if you have questions and want to see if I've had to handle the same sort of thing already. I know the people here have helped me quite a bit so far; I hope they can help you, too.

 

[hislittlekitten]

Hi hislittlekitten,

The four concerns you mentioned are legitimate concerns. The first two are areas where either you and he are compatible or aren't; you have to talk and see if your plans and expectations line up (or at least can line up).

I think that's really been the last ~7 weeks for us. It was a little messy for a while there; there were a lot of tears, a lot of strong words, and a lot of worries that we had messed up what good we had. So far I think we've come out stronger. It's still a little tenuous; I'm a little more prepared than he is for this to advance, yet we both need time to slow down for different reasons. I'm going to be very busy during the holidays and I have a pretty loaded work/volunteer schedule while he has children and an ex wife and a really tough work schedule.

The last two areas can get messy. You accept his choice for polyamory, yet you also think he's overloading himself. Which may be true, but he might not see it that way. He might think that if you're questioning the load he wants to shoulder, that means you're questioning his choice for polyamory. He shouldn't mix the two issues but there's a good chance that he will. You may have to patiently explain to him, "No, it's not that I have a problem with polyamory, it's that time and energy are finite resources even if love is an infinite resource."

You probably need to have some more conversations with this man to see if you and he can get along well as time goes forward. Hopefully the answer will be yes.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

It is most certainly the time constraint I'm most worried about. I am a planner at heart and often take the role of project manager (both at work and in life in general); I foresee him getting worn down just by the sheer amount of demand to his already-busy schedule. Personally I wish he'd be a little slower and deliberate with new partners, or at least consider how both I and the girlfriend (E I'll call her) may feel, but again that is something I can't necessarily be too strong about.

I too hope the answer will be yes.

Thank you for your input!

 

[hislittlekitten]

We have some mono folk on this board who are involved with poly folk. At least one or two of them have blogs in our blog section, so I'd strongly suggest checking those out. (You'll know one of the blogs by its title.)

Thank you so much! I will go look.

As for the rest of your concerns:

You could express to him that you do not wish to be reminded that you're secondary. You're okay with *being* it, at least at first, you just don't want to hear about it. And you could ask for some assurance from him that he's open to your relationship developing past the "she's first, you're second" stage.

You unquestionably have the right to set boundaries as far as what he does or doesn't share with you about his other partner(s), and boundaries as far as what he does or doesn't share *about* you. This is something to discuss with him, something like, "Please don't give me details about your sex life with others, and please keep what happens between us, between us."

Thank you for some validation there. I did not think that it was too much to ask. He is a little bit of an exhibitionist and I think he enjoys knowing that others know about his sexual prowess and how enjoyable his sex life is. I don't mind if he goes nuts about that anonymously on the Internet; doesn't matter to me. But it is not very conducive for me to be hearing about his sex life with the girlfriend, E, nor for me to worry about how much of my sex life with him is being leaked to someone who actually knows who he is and whose potential concerns may turn into problems later on.

You could express to him that you're concerned if he takes on other partners, he may not have the time and energy for your relationship. I would say it really isn't your call as to whether he's overextending; that's his decision and something he would need to recognize for himself. But you can express your concerns about how taking on other partners might affect *your* relationship.

Being that he is relatively new to this, can you elaborate maybe? I'm worried that he may think I'm not accepting of his choice for polyamory if I rail on the concern about other partners. Personally I think he's seeing all this potential for new partners but not moderating his expectations; yes, polyamory means he will have multiple partners. But there just is no solution to being multiple places at once, or balancing more than your schedule can handle!

The only thing I can suggest about the lack of trust is to just keep assuring him that you have done the work and want to be okay with it. Speaking from my own experiences, sometimes saying you *want* to be okay with it and are willing to do what it takes to be okay sounds more honest and is more easily believed than saying you *are* okay with it when you weren't before.

Very helpful. Thank you. So far he hasn't expressed this again and I think if it comes up again, I will go this route. I do want to be okay with it and you may have hit the nail on the head; he may be unsure that I actually want it.

You're on a steep learning curve, and it sounds like you've done a lot of work, research, and self-exploration to arrive at the point you're at. Kudos to you for that; some people dive in head first without taking the time to understand what they're getting into, and then can't understand why things aren't working.

But this, like any relationship whether mono or poly, is a work in progress. As long as you have an open line of communication with your partner, you'll be able to address issues as they arise.

Monogamy is the default, at least in our society, but one way to look at it is that while time and attention might be finite, love is infinite. Him loving his girlfriend doesn't take away any love from you; him loving you doesn't take away any love from her. Adjusting to having a partner who isn't available every time you want him to be can be tough, but maybe it helps to remember that even when he isn't with you, he loves you.

Thank you so much for your input. Yes, I've definitely put a lot of work into this. I appreciate that you see this and hopefully he will too.

Again thanks and I very much appreciate the feedback and reassurance.

 

[KC43]

Being that he is relatively new to this, can you elaborate maybe? I'm worried that he may think I'm not accepting of his choice for polyamory if I rail on the concern about other partners. Personally I think he's seeing all this potential for new partners but not moderating his expectations; yes, polyamory means he will have multiple partners. But there just is no solution to being multiple places at once, or balancing more than your schedule can handle!

Don't necessarily phrase it that you're concerned he'll have other partners. Phrase it along the lines of, "I know you're interested in possibly having other partners. I value our time together, and I'm hoping for some assurance that you having other partners wouldn't take away from the time you and I spend together." Then you aren't making it sound like you aren't accepting of his polyamory; you're just looking to be sure you'll still have time with him even if he is involved with others.

 

[Candiedlove]

Here are the things I struggle with:

• I'm not comfortable with being 'secondary' in the long term. I can accept that it may take time to develop, but in the meantime, I do not want to be unnecessarily or frequently reminded of my 'secondary' status, which leads into...
• I want a high degree of privacy in our relationship; I am certainly not opposed to sharing any and all test results, nor do I have any issues discussion things with him (in fact I have probably shared opinions too quickly and intensely), but I do not want to hear about his sexual adventures with the gf nor do I want him to share such details about me with her.
• I think he's overloading himself; he is new to polyamory and has in the past expressed he would not seek out more than a relationship (me) outside of his current gf, but he recently mentioned that he is considering more.
• He does not trust that I am accepting of his choice for polyamory. This lack of trust really bothers me because our trust was strong in the beginning. Also, I've worked really hard - including attending counseling and doing a lot of evaluation from within - to come to the conclusion that at this point I'm okay with him being polyamorous. I have had a short timeline to think about this and I feel like he has not been patient with my questions, fears, concerns, etc. and takes it too personally that I struggled to accept it up to now. I have admittedly picked fights over my worries, but I think I'm over that phase and have a better understanding of his communication style and why addressing my concerns escalated into arguments instead of resulting in constructive conversation.

1) "I am not comfortable being secondary." That's cool. It looks like he has the one girlfriend, besides his wife who he is divorcing (Does he consider the girlfriend to be a primary? Does she want that kind of involvement with him?). But don't just expect primary status immediately. I am the sort who begins EVERY relationship as secondary and then lets it evolve into a primary style relationship, where s/he and I start making each other a top priority (I have several top priorities and I make sure to address all of them) and start building our lives together.

However, please don't expect to be his ONLY primary. Some do that. Others do not. Make sure you talk that out.

2) "I want a high degree of privacy." My partner and I very much respect each other's privacy. If he goes on a first date, he doesn't involve me in that. However, he always shows me the initial conversations with him and another woman. Those are just part of the guidelines in our relationship. Others have more or less privacy. You really need to talk this out, too. It also sounds like by "privacy" you don't mean, "I don't want my private life shared," but, "I don't want to hear about his." That's fine, but it's very close to a DaDt. If you expect him to hide his other loves/lovers from you, that's pretty unrealistic and will inevitably lead to conflict.

3) "I think he's overloading himself." Really you have to respect him enough to trust he's an adult and knows what he's doing. If you don't, fair enough. But that's a bad relationship to enter. Anyway, you shouldn't be focusing on what she's getting from him. You need to be worried about what YOU are getting from him. Is it enough? Is it not? That's something that has to be gently but consistently recalculated as the relationship progresses. In a healthy relationship, both parties sense and adjust (as well as outright talking, don't expect him to mind read) to meet each other's needs.

4) "He does not trust my accepting his choice for polyamory." Quite honestly, I don't blame him and that could be a #1 reason for him to 1) Leave or 2) Keep emotional distance, thinking you're just going to leave him for a mono guy anyway. I don't date monos, myself, for that very reason. I just don't think our values align enough...BUT there are exceptions.

There are mono people who are naturally happy for their partners to be with others. Who totally get it. Who don't, at first, but learn to see their partner's side of things. Or simply prefer that their partner get their emotional/physical needs get met, not just by them, but by another partner. Not everyone desires to be another's one and only. Or don't currently desire another partner, but are poly at heart/mono in practice.

Are you willing to really try to understand and learn how he feels? Or are you constantly going to struggle (again, a big reason I would end things with a mono partner is if I felt they were always unhappy. I would not want to be a cause of that unhappiness)? Are you always going to show resentment of his other partners? Or will you be happy to have them in his life and be friendly with them? You needn't be best friends, of course, but it's nice to show that you acknowledge and accept them in his life.

Do you think you can do this?

 

[GalaGirl]

I'm not comfortable with being 'secondary' in the long term. I can accept that it may take time to develop, but in the meantime, I do not want to be unnecessarily or frequently reminded of my 'secondary' status,

Tell him so. Expect he might slip, and that you have to remind. This is still new relationship that can still be measured in WEEKS. It's ok yo have your personal preferences. He learns yours. You learn his.

I want a high degree of privacy in our relationship; I am certainly not opposed to sharing any and all test results, nor do I have any issues discussion things with him (in fact I have probably shared opinions too quickly and intensely), but I do not want to hear about his sexual adventures with the gf nor do I want him to share such details about me with her.

Reasonable. Tell him so. Expect he might slip, and that you have to remind. This is still new relationship that can still be measured in WEEKS. It's ok.

I think he's overloading himself; he is new to polyamory and has in the past expressed he would not seek out more than a relationship (me) outside of his current gf, but he recently mentioned that he is considering more.

Tell him you want to be given a heads up first before he goes there. Then you can determine at THAT point in time if you are up for more people in the polyship or you want to bow out.

Then chill. I could consider learning to walk through walls or being a dragon tamer. Doesn't mean I am ready to do it NOW or actually will go do it ever. YKWIM? Focus on what you want, and let the rest go till it is actually a thing.

He does not trust that I am accepting of his choice for polyamory.

Five weeks in. Trust is built over time. Could give him time to settle back down after the rocky stuff and do his own adjusting. On your end could focus on this:

I think I'm over that phase and have a better understanding of his communication style and why addressing my concerns escalated into arguments instead of resulting in constructive conversation.

Part of early dating is learning each other and how to resolve conflict together effectively.

You sound realistic and like you are trying. And it is true - any time you want you could bow out, process break up stuff, and move on. Not every person you date is destined to be a long haul runner.

How about relaxing and just enjoying this one unfolding? You guys are 5 weeks in. You do not have to have it all solved right this minute. It's ok to enjoy it along the way.

Galagirl

 

[hislittlekitten]

1) "I am not comfortable being secondary." That's cool. It looks like he has the one girlfriend, besides his wife who he is divorcing (Does he consider the girlfriend to be a primary? Does she want that kind of involvement with him?). But don't just expect primary status immediately. I am the sort who begins EVERY relationship as secondary and then lets it evolve into a primary style relationship, where s/he and I start making each other a top priority (I have several top priorities and I make sure to address all of them) and start building our lives together.

However, please don't expect to be his ONLY primary. Some do that. Others do not. Make sure you talk that out.

Yes, the girlfriend is his primary. From what I can tell, she has to a degree replaced her husband with him. Her husband's gf has stated that the husband is jealous of him.

She even introduced him to her father recently.

I don't so much expect primary status right away, nor would I ever; but I am being realistic and I do worry that it won't last for me if I am secondary as this goes on. He has said that he wants more and when the feelings started to grow with each other, we did have to put on the brakes a bit.

I will say this, though: to me, the difficulty of not being primary is a little bit of a logical thing. I understand that it could be emotional and has a lot to do with them having dated for longer. However, if I were in his shoes and had to look at the facts? I am unmarried. I do not really intend on expanding into other relationships. I have more to offer in the attention I can give and I do not have a husband or boyfriend that can make it more complicated for him.

This is what a monogamous person sees. I don't understand the appeal of being primarily attached to a person who is married beyond what I've stated (that they have dated longer).

2) "I want a high degree of privacy." My partner and I very much respect each other's privacy. If he goes on a first date, he doesn't involve me in that. However, he always shows me the initial conversations with him and another woman. Those are just part of the guidelines in our relationship. Others have more or less privacy. You really need to talk this out, too. It also sounds like by "privacy" you don't mean, "I don't want my private life shared," but, "I don't want to hear about his." That's fine, but it's very close to a DaDt. If you expect him to hide his other loves/lovers from you, that's pretty unrealistic and will inevitably lead to conflict.

I am not asking him to hide his lovers from me. (Why do you think this?) That would be a huge problem. I am not stupid. But I do not want details. I do not want to hear about him showering with his girlfriend. I do not want her to hear about the kind of sex we're having. I do not want him to make her jealous and vice versa.

3) "I think he's overloading himself." Really you have to respect him enough to trust he's an adult and knows what he's doing. If you don't, fair enough. But that's a bad relationship to enter. Anyway, you shouldn't be focusing on what she's getting from him. You need to be worried about what YOU are getting from him. Is it enough? Is it not? That's something that has to be gently but consistently recalculated as the relationship progresses. In a healthy relationship, both parties sense and adjust (as well as outright talking, don't expect him to mind read) to meet each other's needs.

Indeed a thin line, but I am talking about time management more than emotionally (which is still a possibility, but less of my business to be concerned about). I have a lot of trust for him; I want to trust that he isn't in over his head. When it comes to managing his time, that's what I'm not sure about. That said, I actually don't think most adults are any good at time management.

I don't really care what she is getting from him, honestly. I have mostly - that I have explored - let go about what she gets from him compared to what I get from him. That's part of why I do not want to hear about what he does with her nor tell her about what he does with me. My relationship with him is not hers and vice versa.

I do not expect him to read my mind. I believe that one of the highest forms of respect is to balance the assumption that another person is capable of understanding, but not to make assumptions about their actions or thoughts and give them the respect to make their own decisions and thoughts.

4) "He does not trust my accepting his choice for polyamory." Quite honestly, I don't blame him and that could be a #1 reason for him to 1) Leave or 2) Keep emotional distance, thinking you're just going to leave him for a mono guy anyway. I don't date monos, myself, for that very reason. I just don't think our values align enough...BUT there are exceptions.

There are mono people who are naturally happy for their partners to be with others. Who totally get it. Who don't, at first, but learn to see their partner's side of things. Or simply prefer that their partner get their emotional/physical needs get met, not just by them, but by another partner. Not everyone desires to be another's one and only. Or don't currently desire another partner, but are poly at heart/mono in practice.

He knows I will one day want to leave for a monogamous relationship and he has said that he understands this. I want a husband and children one of these days, but these are things I struggle with understanding on a personal level; I'm terrified of someone who will have children with me and then leave.

Ha, and he's that man to his ex wife. A little bit of irony there.

Not sure why you find the need to tell me that not everyone desires to be another's one and only. I don't think I would be here if that was what I thought.

Are you willing to really try to understand and learn how he feels? Or are you constantly going to struggle (again, a big reason I would end things with a mono partner is if I felt they were always unhappy. I would not want to be a cause of that unhappiness)? Are you always going to show resentment of his other partners? Or will you be happy to have them in his life and be friendly with them? You needn't be best friends, of course, but it's nice to show that you acknowledge and accept them in his life.

Do you think you can do this?

Can I understand how he feels? I am more than willing to understand how he feels. What about me? Can he not see how this feels from the perspective of a monogamous person, who is essentially giving up everything she knows about and is comfortable with in relationships to be with him? Sometimes I don't think he tries to understand how I feel about this. I think he has problems reading my feelings for what they are; he should not be stressed out by my feelings, but he needs to consider them and realize that they're there and they will exist and sometimes they will not be what he wants me to feel. I'm teaching him to understand the difference between having feelings and reacting (poorly) to them.

And - resentment? Excuse me? When I say that I accept his choice for polyamory, I accept that his girlfriend makes him happy and that he wants her around in his life! Hell, I'd like to be on friendly terms with her myself! I in fact saw her today briefly but did not have the opportunity to say hi.

This is a little close to being insulting and I hope you see why I feel that way. I WANT to meet his girlfriend, I WANT to like his girlfriend, and I WANT him to be happy with them as well. Otherwise, I could not comfortably say that I am accepting of his choice for polyamory.

My needs have little to do with who his girlfriend is or that she is in his life. It has to do with how our relationship is built and that it is built with as little influence from her as possible. My love with him should not be determined by her every whim, and my concerns - especially regarding privacy - are that too much of our relationship exposed to her could threaten what should only be between me and him, not that there is another relationship in the first place.

I can definitely do this. But if he does not think I can do this, then I will have to walk away.

Unfortunately, you are giving me exactly the reactions I feared from poly people. Some (potentially unintentional) condescension (and I apologize if that is not your intention, but it feels that way), a sense of doubt (expecting that I want him to hide his partners from me, really?), little empathy that mono folks give a lot to be with someone who is poly (hey! Since monogamy is a societal norm, I could really just say fuck this all and leave!), and making a lot of assumptions about my feelings (resentment, expectations). I am not joking around when I say I've delved deep and reached far to make this work on my end.

 

[Candiedlove]

I have more to offer in the attention I can give and I do not have a husband or boyfriend that can make it more complicated for him.

This is what a monogamous person sees. I don't understand the appeal of being primarily attached to a person who is married beyond what I've stated (that they have dated longer).

Yes, but you're dating a poly guy. He doesn't necessarily see value in your giving him "more" attention. My guy is poly and not only enjoys, but EXPECTS me to date others. And what do you mean by "I don't understand the appeal of being primarily attached to a person who is married beyond what I've stated (that they have dated longer)." My partner was married and I could perfectly well see why he considered her a primary. I also am his primary.

I do not want details. I do not want to hear about him showering with his girlfriend. I do not want her to hear about the kind of sex we're having. I do not want him to make her jealous and vice versa.

Most poly people don't go into that much detail. But if that is his preference and the preference of those he dates, you'll likely struggle with that. I don't remember, but this should be an easy fix.

When it comes to managing his time, that's what I'm not sure about. That said, I actually don't think most adults are any good at time management.

Time management is super critical. If he can't do that, poly will be a struggle.

I'm terrified of someone who will have children with me and then leave.

What makes you think he'd leave you?

Not sure why you find the need to tell me that not everyone desires to be another's one and only. I don't think I would be here if that was what I thought.

Lots of people in the poly community still think they'll be their partner's only primary.

Can he not see how this feels from the perspective of a monogamous person, who is essentially giving up everything she knows about and is comfortable with in relationships to be with him? Sometimes I don't think he tries to understand how I feel about this.

I'm not sure why you're sacrificing to be with him. Or, if you really feel most comfortable with monogamy, why you don't find a mono guy. Or find one that doesn't practice hierarchical monogamy, if that's what is pushing you away. Not all poly people control their partner's dating lives.

I apologize if I seem condescending, but you're being contradictory. First you say that you will definitely leave for a mono guy ("He knows I will one day want to leave for a monogamous relationship") but you still want more than a secondary position in his life..? It's hard enough to build commitment, without you confirming one of his (possible) worst fears that you will simply fall in love with and leave him for another.

Why are you trying to hard to make yourself like and want poly? It's not for everyone, just like monogamy is not for everyone.

 

[WhatHappened]

I don't so much expect primary status right away, nor would I ever; but I am being realistic and I do worry that it won't last for me if I am secondary as this goes on. He has said that he wants more and when the feelings started to grow with each other, we did have to put on the brakes a bit.

You're wise to realize this now. I'm not sure why anyone would be completely happy forever knowing they're number two. If both people are married, maybe, but not when one is single.

For the record, while I do not accept the mono/poly dichotomy (I believe anyone is capable of falling in love with two people at once--it happens all the time), I would fall in the mono world, I was single and dating a married 'poly' man for two years.

I believe he was entirely sincere, but fooling himself, when he told me I was not second (in his heart, I wasn't, but there are real world issues....), and that this relationship could be anything he and I wanted it to be, short of actual marriage (again...real world issues...a wife who had other opinions he didn't count on....)

I was quite happy in the relationship until she started to play games (I think she was very scared by how much he fell in love with me, and by seeing that it wasn't ending as she'd thought it would) and it became clear from his behavior that I really was number two, despite his words, and even the very deep feelings in his heart.

Can I understand how he feels? I am more than willing to understand how he feels. What about me? Can he not see how this feels from the perspective of a monogamous person, who is essentially giving up everything she knows about and is comfortable with in relationships to be with him? Sometimes I don't think he tries to understand how I feel about this. I think he has problems reading my feelings for what they are; he should not be stressed out by my feelings, but he needs to consider them and realize that they're there and they will exist and sometimes they will not be what he wants me to feel. I'm teaching him to understand the difference between having feelings and reacting (poorly) to them.

This became an issue with my BF, too. See the story below, which regards both this and privacy. But I believe he never could entirely see it from my point of view, and did come to expect that I should make more and more concessions because he was married, despite him telling me this relationship could be what he and I wanted it to be, and could go anywhere. All of a sudden it couldn't, and he thought I should be fine with half a relationship.

My needs have little to do with who his girlfriend is or that she is in his life. It has to do with how our relationship is built and that it is built with as little influence from her as possible. My love with him should not be determined by her every whim, and my concerns - especially regarding privacy - are that too much of our relationship exposed to her could threaten what should only be between me and him, not that there is another relationship in the first place.

This became a real issue for me. I found that my e-mails and private messages to him on social sites, which I had assumed were private, were entirely open and available to her (she has his password to all accounts), and no one had bothered telling me.

He took care of this. He set up a private e-mail that he assured me she didn't even know about. Of course, this told me two more things: he was not 100% honest with her, and if he couldn't be honest with her about giving me privacy in my e-mails, there was probably a reason--she wouldn't have allowed it, had she known. Both the initial mistake and his method of fixing it told me something about how they/she really viewed his girlfriends. At least he fixed it, but I understood how she viewed me, as simply a toy who had no need of privacy.

The next issue became that she started having 100% predictable 'change in plans' every time he and I planned on having an evening in, in his home. It became clear that I had a choice between the 'privacy' of the back seat of a car (???!!! REALLY???) or the 'privacy' of his wife walking in and out. He assured me she would just stay in the other room, but given that she'd already walked in on us twice while she was supposed to be out for the evening, I had no reason to believe that. (Both times, she walked in without calling ahead, and without so much as knocking--forgive my skepticism, but I believe she was hoping to catch a view.) Given her history, of course she was going to come out to use the bathroom and get water.

He chose to pretend none of this was happening, that I was imagining things and engaging in conspiracy theories. He chose to believe that they were such the perfect poly couple that she couldn't possibly have any fears, insecurities, or jealousies. He left the apartment for her when she wanted to bring new boyfriends over and have privacy, but didn't insist she do the same for me.

I loved him and have no doubt he loved and loves me. I believe had he been single, we would have been married. In fact, he would say to his friends, "Now that I'm married...." and he was referring to me, not her. He has taken the break up very hard. We are both still struggling with it.

But the fact remains, he's a married man, and when push came to shove, he was going to side with his wife. I would even say this is how it should be. Of course a man's wife should come first. But that obviously presents problems to the person who's expected to happily be thrown under the bus if need be. In the end, it's still a lousy way to treat another human being.

And to me, no, I'm not going to accept being so clearly thrown into the role of Number Two who's expected to put up with anything because he's married. He told me this relationship could be anything he and I wanted, and I believe he believed that, himself. But it simply isn't true. A poly relationship is never just between two people. I could say I was naive to believe him, but then, they'd had an open marriage for 15 years, and I thought he must have the experience to know more than I did about it.

 

[hislittlekitten]

Yes, but you're dating a poly guy. He doesn't necessarily see value in your giving him "more" attention. My guy is poly and not only enjoys, but EXPECTS me to date others. And what do you mean by "I don't understand the appeal of being primarily attached to a person who is married beyond what I've stated (that they have dated longer)." My partner was married and I could perfectly well see why he considered her a primary. I also am his primary.

That's useful insight. Thank you.

I guess it just doesn't make sense to me. I feel that a primary should be someone who fits your needs more. I have considered that maybe I don't fit his needs well enough, but he has said otherwise; he's said that it's too new right now. That I can understand. But if that was not the case, then being secondary... a secondary single if you will, isn't that the term?... makes no sense to me when his primary is married to a different man.

I guess I don't understand the situation you compared? Please elaborate.

Most poly people don't go into that much detail. But if that is his preference and the preference of those he dates, you'll likely struggle with that. I don't remember, but this should be an easy fix.

He's doing better. I think he got the message.

Time management is super critical. If he can't do that, poly will be a struggle.

Agreed. He was using a calendar for a while but I don't wanna pressure him into using it again. I think he didn't like the pressure of calendars. He'll just need to figure that out. I use calendars like a nutcase.

What makes you think he'd leave you?

Men in general... men in general leaving me.

That's an issue I work on a lot, especially with a counselor. I have insecurities about that and I'm aware of them. I've always been the girl that a man learns from and sometimes wants back when it's too late.

Lots of people in the poly community still think they'll be their partner's only primary.

I'm not sure why you're sacrificing to be with him. Or, if you really feel most comfortable with monogamy, why you don't find a mono guy. Or find one that doesn't practice hierarchical monogamy, if that's what is pushing you away. Not all poly people control their partner's dating lives.

It's okay and I can see what you're saying. I have questioned it a little, but part of me... part of me isn't ready to settle down as much as I know I want certain things in life. And I really do truly care about him.

Can you elaborate on hierarchical monogamy please?

I apologize if I seem condescending, but you're being contradictory. First you say that you will definitely leave for a mono guy ("He knows I will one day want to leave for a monogamous relationship") but you still want more than a secondary position in his life..? It's hard enough to build commitment, without you confirming one of his (possible) worst fears that you will simply fall in love with and leave him for another.

Challenging my thoughts is actually a good thing. I'm an intellectual and thinking and talking things through is good.

I will go for monogamy and monogamy only when I'm good and ready to settle down. I won't turn down monogamy either.

If it wasn't clear, I guess I'll just repeat: I don't have a problem with polyamory as much as I do being relegated to secondary. Relegation. That's tough for me.

Why are you trying to hard to make yourself like and want poly? It's not for everyone, just like monogamy is not for everyone.

Actually, I'm pretty accepting of it. Especially intellectually. I understand why polyamory is appealing. I see how it can work, with good rules. I've had times in my life where I've been deep in a relationship with one person but felt such a strong connection to another that I wish I could've realized the connection. I see why it's a way of life for many.

I'm giving it a solid try to be with this man for the time being. I want as much of him as I can have. He's very special to me and I really, really care about him. It's going to be tough and I know it. But at this point I can't imagine moving on.

 

[Candiedlove]

That's useful insight. Thank you.

Thanks. You just really have to understand that not everyone has the same values. Say I'm interested in someone who is mono. To them, offering to be my one and only is a precious gift. For me, it's a terrible burden. So if they offer that to me, they'll be confused why I'm not happy...whereas I'll be upset that they are demanding something of me.
It's okay to date a poly guy, even if your inherent values are mono. Just understand that the phrase, "One man's trash is another man's treasure" holds very true in this case.

I guess it just doesn't make sense to me. I feel that a primary should be someone who fits your needs more.

My partner and I shared more ambitions, interests, and sexual desires than he ever did with her. Yet it never crossed my mind that I should be his primary instead of her. Eventually I wanted co-primary status, but that was because he and I both had progressed our relationship.

makes no sense to me when his primary is married to a different man.

My primary is married to a different woman. If I date another partner, I expect them to understand that I don't care who my boyfriend is married to, his and my relationship is of primary importance to both of us. And that will not change. I would hope they would understand this; not doing so would mean they didn't understand who I was.

He's doing better. I think he got the message.

Good. Negotiating boundaries of privacy is important.

Men in general... men in general leaving me.

I don't care about men in general. I care about my man. Really, you should, too


I'm also confused on one point...do you want to be with him long term, assuming he gives you what you need in a long term, committed relationship? Or do you eventually intend on moving on to a mono guy?

 

[hislittlekitten]

Thanks. You just really have to understand that not everyone has the same values. Say I'm interested in someone who is mono. To them, offering to be my one and only is a precious gift. For me, it's a terrible burden. So if they offer that to me, they'll be confused why I'm not happy...whereas I'll be upset that they are demanding something of me.
It's okay to date a poly guy, even if your inherent values are mono. Just understand that the phrase, "One man's trash is another man's treasure" holds very true in this case.

It's interesting to think of it like that... because... gifts are to be appreciated as given. I appreciate how he chooses to give love.

I kind of feel like he doesn't appreciate how I choose to give love. I am not asking him to be monogamous. I am asking him to be patient and caring about how my love is received. I would feel so much better if he saw my love as just as precious and felt more inclined to do the things that help me give that love, especially since they're infrequently tied to his way of giving love. For instance, the privacy thing? That's what I would appreciate him to respect and I think he is appreciating it.

For some reason this reminds me of tuning my instruments in orchestra. Such delicate work.

I don't care about men in general. I care about my man. Really, you should, too

And I do. I'm scared he doesn't see it that way because of the confusion and hurt I've gone through to get to this point. It bled on over to him. We never really had any true fights about it, but I expressed my difficulties along the way and it stressed him out a lot. I wish he could get over it and realize that it was not a direct aim at him. I wish he could understand it was a strong reaction that was only made stronger by the feelings that are there.

I'm also confused on one point...do you want to be with him long term, assuming he gives you what you need in a long term, committed relationship? Or do you eventually intend on moving on to a mono guy?

You know... I mean... I know I want a long-term, committed relationship with him, but it does not mean it will progress to marriage or children. He does not currently envision himself getting involved in either ever again (because he's already been through that and it did not work for him). I struggle with the fact that I do want a marriage one day and I intend on having a monogamous marriage. Yet that doesn't mean I'll find a man to marry; I do not believe in settling, especially for something like that.

I am not sure what it will look like.

It scares me, all of it. I know I want a marriage and children someday. But I do not want that with a man who won't work to give me a healthy marriage and be a good father to his children. I have doubts this will be something I'll find. I don't want to set my heart on one thing or another; I want to do what's better for me in the meantime and move on when it feels different for me.

Maybe I will wake up someday and think, "Well, this just isn't for me and I want to find a monogamous relationship."

I don't know. I know I want him now, I want him for a while, and I want our relationship to run its course properly. I want him not to restrict himself or rule things out. I want to cross bridges when we get to them, not chart the map immediately.

These are tough things...

 

[Dickdomin]

#2? Reservations

Being used to being the One and Only, suddenly finding yourself as secondary and then being reduced to #2 must be a shitty experience (duck low flying badly formed pun)

So Buddha says suffering comes out of expectations.

I am going to recommend you expect exactly what happens to happen. Notice how you feel, but really more useful to notice where you experience the sensations inside your body. Then ask your subconscious mind to tell you if there has ever been another time you felt these sensations. It is an interesting exercise in self awareness.

Notice what he does, notice what she does. have you been introduced to her father?

Toy? Well they are things we play with, so be high quality toy, maybe go watch Toy Story, which is a surprisingly deeply spiritual movie. Go for playfulness.

I mean you are 28 and I never heard about YOUR husband, so I am guessing the whole gamous thing hasn't quite jelled for you yet. I remember when I was learning golf at age 12. My father did most of the teaching and I had a horrible slice, but if I lined up at a 45 degree angle to the fairway I out und drive a ball 275 yards in a beautifully arcing slice which ended in the middle of the fairway (sort of like meters to you EU gits)

I won the 16 and under championship of our club three weeks later, so my father foolishly thought I might have a bit of talent and got the pro to give me a lesson.
He taught me to watch the club head actually hit the ball, to see where on the club head the ball got hit and if the club head was straight.

He only let me use a practice swing because my Real swing was too fast and strong, so hard to see well. In one hour, using that slow lazy relaxed practice swing I was able to drive the ball dead straight and only 250 yards.

So maybe just view this whole #2 stuff as more practice. Keep your eye on the ball (maybe balls if we are allowed to throw out one more trashy pun).

After a while the NRE (which I feel is just an oxytocin rush) will wear off and you will see what a fool you were to even think about him when Her father was waiting in the wings. Then you can get to play unicorn which is much more prancing fun kinda toy.

I recommend always having reservations. But make sure he slips the Maître 'D a 20 or you'll get a crappy table near the kitchen door. Now, in a Chinese restaurant that is actually the best table because the "wok hey" diminishes with each step from the door.

So unless there is a husband or two hanging about in the wings we have not heard about, you are fucking fucking guys one by one. I'll assume none in the same evening.

Life is lessons, so Buddha aside, ask yourself, "What am I being given here in this lesson?" Sit really quietly and get ready for some yamayama better than any Ophra you've ever seen.

Keep your sense of humor, because if this were not happening to you personally, but to some chick on Jerry Springer, you'd be laughing your ass off.

Now, if you could get a pair of tight Jersy hot pants and a tight tee and get that girlfriend into a good mud wrestling competition that whole #2 would be hidden completely by the mud. Might even be able to get on Jerry Springer yourself.

As so great and wise philosopher said: Shit happens and then you die.

When you look at ducks on the pond, they look so cool and relaxed, but underwater their little webbed feet are paddling like mad.

As I told my daughter: Paddle with purpose.

 

[Dickdomin]

#2? Reservations

Being used to being the One and Only, suddenly finding yourself as secondary and then being reduced to #2 must be a shitty experience (duck low flying badly formed pun)

So Buddha says suffering comes out of expectations.

I am going to recommend you expect exactly what happens to happen. Notice how you feel, but really more useful to notice where you experience the sensations inside your body. Then ask your subconscious mind to tell you if there has ever been another time you felt these sensations. It is an interesting exercise in self awareness.

Notice what he does, notice what she does. have you been introduced to her father?

Toy? Well they are things we play with, so be high quality toy, maybe go watch Toy Story, which is a surprisingly deeply spiritual movie. Go for playfulness.

I mean you are 28 and I never heard about YOUR husband, so I am guessing the whole gamous thing hasn't quite jelled for you yet. I remember when I was learning golf at age 12. My father did most of the teaching and I had a horrible slice, but if I lined up at a 45 degree angle to the fairway I out und drive a ball 275 yards in a beautifully arcing slice which ended in the middle of the fairway (sort of like meters to you EU gits)

I won the 16 and under championship of our club three weeks later, so my father foolishly thought I might have a bit of talent and got the pro to give me a lesson.
He taught me to watch the club head actually hit the ball, to see where on the club head the ball got hit and if the club head was straight.

He only let me use a practice swing because my Real swing was too fast and strong, so hard to see well. In one hour, using that slow lazy relaxed practice swing I was able to drive the ball dead straight and only 250 yards.

So maybe just view this whole #2 stuff as more practice. Keep your eye on the ball (maybe balls if we are allowed to throw out one more trashy pun).

After a while the NRE (which I feel is just an oxytocin rush) will wear off and you will see what a fool you were to even think about him when Her father was waiting in the wings. Then you can get to play unicorn which is much more prancing fun kinda toy.

I recommend always having reservations. But make sure he slips the Maître 'D a 20 or you'll get a crappy table near the kitchen door. Now, in a Chinese restaurant that is actually the best table because the "wok hey" diminishes with each step from the door.

So unless there is a husband or two hanging about in the wings we have not heard about, you are fucking fucking guys one by one. I'll assume none in the same evening.

Life is lessons, so Buddha aside, ask yourself, "What am I being given here in this lesson?" Sit really quietly and get ready for some yamayama better than any Ophra you've ever seen.

Keep your sense of humor, because if this were not happening to you personally, but to some chick on Jerry Springer, you'd be laughing your ass off.

Now, if you could get a pair of tight Jersy hot pants and a tight tee and get that girlfriend into a good mud wrestling competition that whole #2 would be hidden completely by the mud. Might even be able to get on Jerry Springer yourself.

As so great and wise philosopher said: Shit happens and then you die.

When you look at ducks on the pond, they look so cool and relaxed, but underwater their little webbed feet are paddling like mad.

As I told my daughter: Paddle with purpose.

 

[Candiedlove]

because... gifts are to be appreciated as given. I appreciate how he chooses to give love.

But you have to give gifts that are wanted by the person, not gifts YOU want to give. It reminds me of this woman on a show who said she was giving her husband an alligator skin purse, that he could give back to her.

I kind of feel like he doesn't appreciate how I choose to give love. I am not asking him to be monogamous. I am asking him to be patient and caring about how my love is received.

He may NOT appreciate how you choose to give love. That's okay, although it DOES mean he's probably not right for you. But you can't force him to appreciate something he doesn't. Again, being poly, he naturally may feel differently from you.

I'm scared he doesn't see it that way because of the confusion and hurt I've gone through to get to this point. It bled on over to him. We never really had any true fights about it, but I expressed my difficulties along the way and it stressed him out a lot. I wish he could get over it and realize that it was not a direct aim at him. I wish he could understand it was a strong reaction that was only made stronger by the feelings that are there.

You've damaged his trust. You can earn it back, but it'll take time. He was clearly hurt by your anger and confusion from before. Give it time and don't let your actions show that you haven't changed or moved on to accepting and loving him, without confusion and hurt.

You know... I mean... I know I want a long-term, committed relationship with him, but it does not mean it will progress to marriage or children. He does not currently envision himself getting involved in either ever again (because he's already been through that and it did not work for him). I struggle with the fact that I do want a marriage one day and I intend on having a monogamous marriage. Yet that doesn't mean I'll find a man to marry; I do not believe in settling, especially for something like that.

I am not sure what it will look like.

If you want a marriage and kids, and he doesn't, that's an issue. Especially as he's mono. You're making it pretty clear that you don't want to fully commit, which is fine, but it will probably cause him to keep you as a secondary, rather than giving you the same level of commitment as his primary. Why invest deeply in someone who intends on leaving you?

You've stated you want him, "for a while," and he'll likely treat you correspondingly. As someone who will just be a temporary thing for him.

Think over if this is really the right place for you.

 

[hislittlekitten]

But you have to give gifts that are wanted by the person, not gifts YOU want to give. It reminds me of this woman on a show who said she was giving her husband an alligator skin purse, that he could give back to her.

He may NOT appreciate how you choose to give love. That's okay, although it DOES mean he's probably not right for you. But you can't force him to appreciate something he doesn't. Again, being poly, he naturally may feel differently from you.

You've damaged his trust. You can earn it back, but it'll take time. He was clearly hurt by your anger and confusion from before. Give it time and don't let your actions show that you haven't changed or moved on to accepting and loving him, without confusion and hurt.

If you want a marriage and kids, and he doesn't, that's an issue. Especially as he's mono. You're making it pretty clear that you don't want to fully commit, which is fine, but it will probably cause him to keep you as a secondary, rather than giving you the same level of commitment as his primary. Why invest deeply in someone who intends on leaving you?

You've stated you want him, "for a while," and he'll likely treat you correspondingly. As someone who will just be a temporary thing for him.

Think over if this is really the right place for you.

This has been really helpful.

I guess it's difficult to articulate how I feel about kids and a family. I do want it. I would want it with him, if I let myself want it.

But he says he doesn't know if those are things he ever wants again. He has never ruled them out, and the vasectomy he once talked about has as far as I know not happened.

So you made some excellent and great points I think about all the time and I thank you for that.

I've learned a little more in the last few days and with other situations I haven't necessarily mentioned in this forum... I have few reasons to be insecure about the whole situation, really. [Edit: that means I don't have any reasons to be insecure. I do mean "few," not "a few."] He cares about me, and nothing will happen immediately.

I really do care about him a lot. I would want the world with him... I haven't let myself want it all. But he needs time to figure out what he wants and needs and I need to at least be prepared that he doesn't want more with me. I need to be prepared that he may even want less from me now. In fact I'm planning on it - that he doesn't want anything at all. I am pretty much putting all of myself out there for him... and it's scary. What he does with it, I don't know. It's early and we have time.

 

[Dickdomin]

You damaged trust?

You've damaged his trust. You can earn it back, but it'll take time. He was clearly hurt by your anger and confusion from before.

People do what they do and WE decide how we feel and how we react.
"He was hurt" is him being total passive and accepting he was the victim.

He decided to be hurt. He could have decided to feel empathy, or take it as a sign he was not doing something. He could decide he was confused.

I am 100% responsible for my feelings and for my relationship. I even go so far as to think I am 100% responsible for how you reacted, because I have a choice in how I behave towards you in the first place.

I do not think it is an accident we meet the people we meet. This is fate. And it does seem to be incredible how our mutual dysfunctionalities match up and create intense dynamics.

How we choose to play the hand, how we act at any given moment is our free will.

"She did it to ME!!!" Sob sob
Boy don't I wish. I mean I'm am so wonderful how could she ever have even thought to do THAT to poor me..
Do you like my new halo? I got it on ebay. I know such a bargain. Yes way below retail, though I've heard Samsung has an even bigger one with much more golden glow effects for 15% less.

So OK I did punch my sister and she is like twice as big as I am, so, Mom she hit me.
Yeah, next time don't hit her first.
Don't you hate Moms with eyes in the back of their head?

You are 100% responsible for your actions and your feelings.
He is responsible for feeling however he feels about whatever silly thing you did.

Earn trust, sounds a bit too much like buying insurance for the loan you took out. There is always some fine print, never in your favor.

Trust
Respect

When I hear people start to talk about these things, I make sure my kids are behind me and my fazer is set to stun just side of death.

Everyone gets to come and be exactly who they are in my life. I get to decide how I'll react. I do not feel the need to trust people or to respect them.

I just deal with what they do and decide if I want them to do more or less of that. I am carrying around way too much questionable baggage to feel I have any right to ask anyone to ever trust me (personally I don't and would not advise you to either) or respect me.

I am not going to earn anything. I am going to be me and you'll decide whether you want to keep doing stuff with me or not.

You mean you like me?!?