Very new to open relationship - advice?

G

GlitterCat

New member
Hello,

My husband and I have begun to dip our toes in the open relationship waters, set down all the rules which we both fully agree to. We're both very secure in our marriage, love each other more than anything, have been through some incredibly trying times (serious illness, distance, infidelity) and come out of everything even stronger.

When I say we've dipped out toes in, I mean we've both agreed we want to explore this, but whereas I'm not looking for a boyfriend/not rushing out to find one, my husband has hung out with a 'friend' a couple of times and wants to take it to a dating level. I'm ok with this except for one thing - her age. I'm 28, my husband is 33, and his friend is 18. They met through volunteer work and even though she sounds like a cool and mature person, I'm just really put off by how young she is. My husband's attitude is more along the line of 'nothing illegal is happening so there's pretty much no difference between 18 and 48'.

When it comes to open relationships, is it ok to dictate who your partner can or can't date? All that's happened so far is a couple of coffee dates that haven't even really been dates so much as just hanging out, as he hasn't stated any romantic interest to her yet (at my request to take things slow). But now the more I think about their relationship escalating I just feel uneasy about her age.

Any advice?
 
It isn't okay to "dictate" anything unless that's part of the agreements you and your husband have made. If you and he have agreed that you have veto power over each other's partners, then yeah. You can tell him not to see his friend. But if veto power is not part of the deal... then no. You can't.

You *can* tell him that you're uncomfortable with him seeing this friend because of her age. You can *ask* him not to see her because of your discomfort. But unless you and he have specifically stated that you get to decide who each other is involved with, you don't have the right to *tell* him he isn't allowed to see her. And if you express your discomfort and concerns and he chooses to continue his involvement with her... that's a choice he has the right to make.
 
Can you pin down why her age bothers you so much?

My SO is 35. I'm 27. One of his girlfriends is 18, going on 19.
This shocked me a little initially but overall she's a pretty mature person. We've actually become close friends.
 
I personally don't see the issue with the age difference. There is 5, 10 and 11 years between me and my partners. My parents have 15 years between them and are still happily together.

If both people in the relationship (your husband and this "friend") are comfortable with the age gap and get along and are happy then that's what should matter.

But you're not asking about our opinions on age gaps. You're asking if it's ok to dictate who your partner can have a relationship with. The answer is "possibly". It depends on your rules, your dynamic. I personally don't believe in veto power.

The main thing is to communicate all this with your husband and sort it out with him. Maybe explore what about her age bothers you.

I also would suggest that you might want to be accepting of the relationship and at least give yourself some time to see if you become more comfortable with it. Maybe once you're used to her or know her better, the age thing won't bug you.
 
Could tell him how you feel about it and articulate who your "messy people" are. Ask what his might be. I think you guys are not done talking.

Everyone has a different comfort zone. For example, teenagers would be on my messy list. There is nothing illegal going on but there is a lot developmentally. There is second adolescence brain development going on in the late teens and early twenties. Is she past the impulse control/emotional control stuff of the age?

There is usually stuff financially. Is she a student dependent at 18? Still in high school? He pays for all a dates because she cannot afford to split costs? Are her parents going to raise hell if they find out she is dating a married man 15 years her senior?

Rather than wonder, I prefer to just NOT deal in teens. 28 and 43 would not bug me even though same age gap. Then both partners are past second adolescence stuff. And hopefully financially independent and no longer dependents.

Other examples on my messy list would be my mom, sister, boss, roommate. Not for age gap but for other reasons.

Could think what yours are and let him know. Could ask if he is willing to not go there. You could do same for him and not date his messy list people.

IMHO, it can save some grief. Polyshipping is challenging as it is. There are enough people in the world to be dating. Could skip the messies.

Galagirl
 
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Thanks so much everyone for the replies. Because we're still so new to this, we've agreed that we can modify/add rules as we go based on our feelings, because there are so many aspects of opening up our relationship that we just can't know how we're going to feel about until we're in the situation. We've even both agreed that if our other relationships get to a certain point and either of us become uncomfortable, we can call the open relationship off entirely and go back to the closed relationship with no hard feelings.

Her being 18 bothers me because I'm worried she won't have the emotional maturity to date a married man, and things could get complicated. She knows he's married but I'm worried that once they start seeing each other romantically she'll become more attached or think their relationship is (or could become) something it's not. Putting aside how mature she may seem, I feel like the overwhelming majority of teenagers don't physically have the brain development yet to navigate and process many of the more emotionally challenging aspects of the world. Like me, she couldn't say for sure how she'd feel/react to things until she's in the scenario and I'm worried she may get hurt, and for a lot of people heartbreak at 18 can have life long effects.

Also, we live in a small, conservative town and the place they volunteer is absolutely rife with gossip and if one person finds out things could just go haywire (both because he's dating an 18 year old and because it's an open relationship situation). In addition, he's a teacher and though he's never taught her, doesn't work in the same area, and doesn't teach at the high school level etc, it has the potential to have negative effects on his career.

Hearing so many people say that they don't think dating an 18 year old is a big deal does help me though, I definitely appreciate different opinions especially as this is brand new territory.
 
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I'd have those concerns, too, GlitterCat. Sure, there are exceptional teenagers who have fabulous emotional maturity, just like there are older folks who still behave like toddlers when it comes to self-control and self-awareness. But the fact that discretion is so important here and there seems to be great potential for them to be discovered... I don't have a good feeling about it.

I worked with college students for 15 years, and even the 22 year olds were all drama, all the time. I don't think people that age usually understand the stakes. I don't want to disparage this young woman in particular, of course, but I would be very careful.
 
It sounds to me like the bigger problem is that you don't trust your husband to pick good partners. And that you have a lot of 'couple privilege' going on. Please do some reading on that before you go further in your poly journey. As someone who has been vetoed (temporarily in my case, thankfully) it is UNBELIEVABLY painful, and for you to just causally say "if our other relationships get to a certain point and either of us become uncomfortable, we can call the open relationship off entirely" doesn't take into account the other partner's feelings about being vetoed at all. How would you feel if she asked him to end his relationship with you? Less easy on the receiving end, no?

Also, don't dismiss this girl just because of her age. When I was 18 I was seeing a married man. It was not a problem for me, and I wasn't the one who caused all the drama that eventually came out of it (that never did affect his relationship with his wife, it ended with me leaving an organisation I cared for a lot though, since I was branded the 'evil temptress'). So don't be so sure that the problems would start with the girl, consider too your husband's ability to deal with this relationship, and your own.
 
I think if I was on the other side of things and my partner told me 'I can't see you anymore because it's putting a strain on my marriage' I would understand and not be hurt - my husband and I both agreed that our marriage will always come first, and that anyone we date will know this upfront, and because of this also know there's a possibility that a relationship could end seemingly abruptly. Again, because we're so new to this, there's a chance myself or my husband could realize an open relationship isn't for us. Down the line if we decide having an open relationship works great for us, we'd have discovered our comfort zones and have the clear guidelines so relationships wouldn't end suddenly or unfairly.
 
I think the key here is to figure out why the age difference or her youth is bothering you. It doesn't seem plausible that she'd be a threat to your relationship, no matter how emotionally mature she is. At her age, it's unlikely that she'd want to "steal" him away, and before long may well want to explore other relationships.

My last love interest is 27 years younger than me, and 19 years younger than my wife. Fortunately, there was never any conflict about this, and the young woman never had any inappropriate designs on me (if she had, I'd have broken it off). Perhaps that's all you need from your husband? That he won't let this get out of hand?
 
I guess I should clarify - it's not the age difference that's bothersome, it's her age. If it was 15 years between them and he was 39 and she was 24, it wouldn't be an issue at all (and I've told him this). I'm not worried for the status of our relationship, him leaving me for her, etc. It's more so the outside intangibles that i'm worried will cause headaches (and so much more) - which would likely sour both of us on open relationships and lead to us not being able to explore this lifestyle further.
 
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GlitterCat said:
Down the line if we decide having an open relationship works great for us, we'd have discovered our comfort zones and have the clear guidelines so relationships wouldn't end suddenly or unfairly.
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I totally agree that you and your husband should disclose that you have veto rights over each other's relationships. And in the early stages of a relationship that would be enough warning for the other partner. But what if you decide a year later that they've crossed some line and you just can't handle it anymore? Or two years? Or five? At what point is the other partner 'allowed' to feel secure and believe that their relationship won't be ended in a 'sudden or unfair' way by the other spouse?

Please do some more reading about poly and couples privilege before you go further. There are more than a few threads about it here, and I (and many others here) highly recommend Frank Veaux's book, More Than Two available here (and other places): http://www.amazon.com/More-Than-Two-Practical-Polyamory/dp/0991399706
 
GlitterCat said:
We've even both agreed that if our other relationships get to a certain point and either of us become uncomfortable, we can call the open relationship off entirely and go back to the closed relationship with no hard feelings.
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It's easy to say "we'll call it off with no hard feelings", but even though you say that now, everyone is human and situations can evolve more than you can predict. For example, I discovered my partner was sexually involved with a guy, and when we had the first discussion I was like "OK, I'm cool with this, no hard feelings", then a week later I started freaking out. I can't remember now why I freaked out, and we've moved on and ended up having threesomes with the fellow, but the point is you can have a "rule" about "no hard feelings", but that doesn't make sense and often causes more guilt and frustration than anything because you and he are trying to follow the "no hard feelings" rule, but your emotions won't let you.

A healthier alternative could be "call it off and have a reasonable discussion about how to move forward". If he had started actually falling for her, and you sent up your veto flag, you can't just go back to a closed relationship as it was before. At that point, things will have changed a LOT in your own relationship. Setting the expectation (nay, rule) that there are to be no hard feelings is not setting yourselves up for success, but setting a rule and expectation of how to move forward in a healthy way after the veto is more sustainable long-term.

Imagine if your husband came home one day and said "I'm not comfortable with you working any more, I want to provide all your financial needs from now on"***...I would guess that it's not just about the money, you enjoy the satisfaction and fulfillment of having your own job. You still like to come home and spend time with him, and let him spend money on you: take you out to dinner, gifts etc. Then imagine there is a rule of "no hard feelings"...your husband wants you to stop working AND have no hard feelings towards it? WTH man? You just started liking this job, and now he wants you to quit?
The healthy way to move forward is to understand why he wants to provide all your financial needs, and then figure out how to move forward in a positive way: what about retirement? bills? spending money? You wouldn't just quit your job because he's uncomfortable with you working, you would find out why, and then you would work out how to go on in the new arrangement.


*** I'm not using this example to be sexist or anything, let's say that theoretically there was a "if we become uncomfortable about the other person's job we can call it off and no hard feelings" rule.
 
I guess I should clarify - it's not the age difference that's bothersome, it's her age. If it was 15 years between them and he was 39 and she was 24, it wouldn't be an issue at all (and I've told him this).
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Yup. I feel same. Dating teens isn't for me.

I still think you guys could talk more. Not to be a wet blanket or anything, but I do not get the strong sense that you guys are on the same page for

  • WHAT open model you want to practice
  • WHO are appropriate, acceptable partners
  • HOW you plan to do it or how to solve conflict when it happens.

I would think twice about Opening at this time. Not rush in.

You sound like you want something collaborative, and he wants something more independent to me.

When you SAY there is a thing that bothers you, his response is to tell you it is NOT a thing? That there's no diff between 18 and 48 -- when there is a difference to you? I could be wrong, but going on just what I read? I find that a bit dismissive. Is that going to be his response to every poly wrinkle? Dismiss and minimize your feelings? That doesn't sound fun to me.

This teen also sounds complicated to date -- what are his responses to the concerns you raise? :confused:

  • You are not keen on dating teenagers because you think the majority of teenagers don't physically have the brain development yet to navigate and process many of the more emotionally challenging aspects of the world. If there's teen drama from her or her parents, how will this be handled? What are the costs there? What are the expectations of you?
  • Their volunteer work place is Gossip Central. If they get "outed" what the plan to handle it? What are the costs? He loses his volunteer job? What are the expectations of you?
  • He is a teacher. If they are "outed" what is the plan to handle negative effects on his career? What are the costs there? Will it cost his livelihood? What are the expectations of you? To support the fam while he gets another job? Move towns? What?

You are willing to accept those expectations?

I suggest you guys read more and sort out that "messy list" thing. If you guys cannot sort that kind of stuff out between you I would suggest you not Open at this time.

MODELS
http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles/models-of-open-relationships

PITFALLS
http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/images/A._Wagner_-_Avoid_the_Pitfalls_of_Polyamory.pdf

MORE
http://www.kathylabriola.com/articles
http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/downloadabledocuments.html

You cannot dictate who he wants to date. His wants are his own. Your job is to state what you are and are not up for and give clear communication.

If he wants to go there whether or not you are willing to participate in a polyship with him/teen? The bottom line is that YOU are in charge of your willingness. Not him. And you do not have to be willing to participate in a thing you don't really want to be in. You can stop the bus so you can get off.

He doesn't have to get off the bus. But neither do you have to keep riding to places you don't want to go.

Have you guys talked about how to end it between you? Not just stop polyshipping, but end marriage if a situation arises where this is the best move? If you haven't, I don't think you guys are done talking about how to Open. Take the conversation all the way.

Make your emergency preparedness plan. "No hard feelings" is not enough because you don't know how you will feel. Polyshipping has a way of magnifying all the cracks. "This is our emergency plan" is better to me. Better to have all your paperwork, bank accounts, and other stuff done ahead of time and not need it, than be really hurting and have to deal with it all while emotionally/mentally a mess.

That's why ships have lifeboats. They plan ahead and hope not to ever need them. But getting to a major problem and going "Crap! We need lifeboats! Now what do we do?!" is not good.

Everyone's comfort level is different. That is ok. But I do not suggest YOU begin polyshipping by overriding your OWN willingness. That's not taking care of you. If you are not entering into it from a "joyful yes" place -- call it a "no" and go from there. It is cleaner in the long run.

And I'm not hearing "joyful yes" here from you at this time. You seem hesitant, unsure. Keep talking.

Galagirl
 
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Everyone has given me so much to think about and such great resources to check out! I suppose I have some hard thinking (and reading) to do - right now I'm comfortable with them hanging out but I've been seriously hung up on seeing their relationship progress to the next step because of her age, and I've asked him to keep his relationship at the 'non romantic hanging out stage' but I know I can't just keep my husband in limbo forever. The fall out from their relationship being 'outed' could be catastrophic for him, me, us, etc.
 
When it comes to open relationships, is it ok to dictate who your partner can or can't date?
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No in my opinion it is not OK to dictate who you partners date.
 
GalaGirl said:
Everyone has a different comfort zone. For example, teenagers would be on my messy list. There is nothing illegal going on but there is a lot developmentally. There is second adolescence brain development going on in the late teens and early twenties. Is she past the impulse control/emotional control stuff of the age?l
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Reading this thread reminded me that we actually do have a "rule" about this. You have to be able to, legally, take them to a bar (i.e. they have to be at least 21). We joke about "but what if she's Canadian?"

I agree with the whole maturity/development/impulse control/drama idea. Not saying that there aren't really mature teens - there are, and really immature older people, I would avoid those as well.

Other messy people - coworkers, family, "crazy".

Jane("curmudgeonly-old-fart")Q

For the record: we are all around 40
 
Hi GlitterCat,

You said you have the impression that this 18-year-old is relatively mature, so at least for that reason I wouldn't be too quick to write her off. Is there a way you can meet her personally and get to know her? Then you might have a better feel for what she can and can't handle.

If you live in a small, conservative town, then there is always going to be a risk that you'll be outed and your husband's career could be damaged -- or perhaps you may find that you need to pull up stakes and move to a more liberal town.

It's your call of course, and you can at the least tell your husband that you absolutely don't want him to see her anymore -- and you can even threaten divorce if he doesn't comply. But I assume you wouldn't want things to get that strained.

Is it okay to dictate who your partner can or can't date? I think my answer is that it's okay under rare and extreme conditions. This girl's young age brings complications into the pircture, but I don't feel it makes the conditions rare and extreme. Just my opinion.

Some people have veto agreements (which are of dubious value as a rule), but I get the impression you and your husband haven't drawn up any such agreements. I suppose you could draw them up now if you wanted to, but I personally would advise against it. It's better to just explain to your husband what your fears and concerns are, and then trust him enough to make his own judgment call.

I can see it is a tricky situation for you, and there are no easy answers. I hope this thread so far has helped you to get a better idea of what to do.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
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