New Open Marriage - Help

derpp

New member
Hi all, first time poster. My husband and I agreed to explore an open marriage about 8 months ago. We never discussed poly besides briefly in the very beginning, and it was basically, "yeah, that's not something I would be interested in." The underlying agreement was that it would be more casual and fun. In retrospect, neither of us did nearly enough research/discussion about all of this before actually jumping in - I see that now. He had his first hook-up with someone from OKC and liked it, and when he told me what happened, I was excited and turned on.

That is about where the positivity ended. There have been a few incidents and transgressions on his part throughout the process thus far that have definitely compromised trust and made me doubt whether or not he could handle himself within this kind of arrangement.

Then at the beginning of January, he met a girl he really liked. He says they have crazy chemistry and there is a ton of sexual attraction. All of a sudden, he is trying to go hang out with her 3-4 times a week and talking every day/talking on the phone. He started acting almost manic and like everything he was doing was with the end goal of being able to go see her - definitely intense NRE. I was uncomfortable with the intensity and the pace at which things were moving, so I expressed this. I was also uncomfortable with the fact that we agreed on open but now he was in the middle of something that seemed a lot more serious than that - more poly, like he wanted her as a steady gf on the side, which we had never even had a chance to discuss. He did end up telling me he had feelings for her.

We would talk about it and he would say I was right, he definitely needed to slow it down, take a break, etc. Great. But then anything he said he would do and any agreement we made in regards to that would go out the window 24 hours later. I could not understand why it was so difficult to honor what he was telling me he would do. It made me feel like he was not even capable of putting my comfort level and the well-being of our marriage first over this person he barely knew, and that really hurt. He literally would say "we aren't going to talk for a while/take a few weeks break," and then would be talking to her the next day. This then turned into him telling me he and the girl talked and they both agreed it would be best to take a break/cooling off period. This led to him continuing to talk to her but doing it behind my back and deleting messages, etc. We got in an argument about it that snowballed into him telling me he was going out for drinks alone, where he went to a bar, told her to meet him there, and they proceeded to go back to her place and sleep together. I didn't know where he was or what he had been doing until he showed up at home well after midnight. Needless to say, things got really bad and he said the ship had sailed, he would tell her it's not going to work for good, etc. I never gave him any kind of ultimatum or veto - but I did agree with what he was telling me, and obviously I was super pissed.

We agreed to take a break from open and focus on us for a few weeks - we both agreed we had a LOT more discussion that needed to happen if any of this was going to work. After that agreement, he STILL continued to talk to her, causing more friction and arguing and anger on my part.

Now we are at an awkward impasse where he is scared I will really veto their relationship and I feel like no matter what I do, I am the bad guy. I feel like he is basically saying f**k your comfort level and your needs, I'm going to do whatever I want. I feel like I am forced to just pretend like this huge breach of trust didn't happen and that I have to just accept their relationship and accept wherever it may lead whether I am okay with it or not. Like I have to sit there and give them my blessing even though there are so many negative feelings and bad blood with his relationship with this person now. I know he wants to continue seeing her, so I am the bad guy if I say anything otherwise, but I kind of feel like he backed me into a corner with his selfish actions. I ask why he isn't capable of just slowing down so I have some time to get used to the situation and all he can say is, "because I never wanted to stop." Okay, then why did you repeatedly tell me you would?? And isn't a huge premise of an open/poly marriage is that everyone involved is comfortable with the situation, and as a spouse, you listen and adjust accordingly to your spouse's comfort level? Any insight/advice appreciated.
 
I am so sorry. Sounds like unprepared along with some poly hell.

You signed up for open, casual sex stuff. You did not educate selves before jumping in.

Now you are being asked to consider another open model.

Both of you need to feel safe enough. What is his offer on the table for your consideration? Because right now he behaves crazy and you do not sound up for that if that is the offer.

You also sound frustrated trying to get answers/solutions.

We agreed to take a break from open and focus on us for a few weeks - we both agreed we had a LOT more discussion that needed to happen if any of this was going to work. After that agreement, he STILL continued to talk to her, causing more friction and arguing and anger on my part.

You seem to want to get to problem solving. Could reframing that as "no dating NEW people. See her on X days, and I get Y days" as a temporary truce make it easier to move on to the problem solving part?

Now we are at an awkward impasse where he is scared I will really veto their relationship

You also can't work with a fearful person. He will say whatever to ward off fearful stuff -- including doing actual talking and conflict resolution. Just say whatever in the moment to make the scary talk just go away!

I ask why he isn't capable of just slowing down so I have some time to get used to the situation and all he can say is, "because I never wanted to stop." Okay, then why did you repeatedly tell me you would?

Cuz he's scared you will veto and he says whatever in the moment to make the scary go away?

Are you able to see that you asking WHY just keeps it on the circular conversation hamster wheel? Rather than moving it FORWARD to problem solving?

You could stop asking WHY and start asking WHAT and HOW.

  • WHAT model are you suggesting at this time?
  • HOW do you see us practicing this model?
  • How can I help make it so you can tell me more no's? Like "No. I do not agree to that." How can you?
  • How can I help make it so you can keep your agreements in future? How can you?
  • How can I help make it so you stop to consider how your behavior might affect me before you do it? How can you?

You do not seem to object to him dating people. You object to HOW he relates to you right now while dating.

And isn't a huge premise of an open/poly marriage is that everyone involved is comfortable with the situation, and as a spouse, you listen and adjust accordingly to your spouse's comfort level? Any insight/advice appreciated.

No. Not just like that. Because "I am just not comfortable with that" can be used as a stonewalling technique. It also plays the other way. You can be waiting so long on your spouse to "get comfortable" YOU start to chafe and get uncomfortable.

Another approach could be to define comfort zones by taking time to articulate the hard limits (no way in hell), the soft limits (no for now, but can change over time), the deal breakers, and conflict resolution method for updating/negotiating for new agreements along the way as needs change.

Everyone Could be comfortable enough. But that does not mean "free of any discomfort ever. "

If after reframing that agreement so x days are with you and y days are with her? And he STILL does not buckle down to work with you on better educating yourselves and making better agreements on his appointment dates with you?

Then you can choose to veto. But understand that VETO is not about this behavior: "he stops seeing her."
Even if she disappeared the his bad behavior would still be there. Even if you tell him to stop seeing her he could go behind your back.

Understand VETO is about YOUR behavior. You decide what you are up for and not up for. And you can veto and stop a behavior: "I choose to stop participating in Open relationships with you."

How that looks, is another thing. Maybe you Close. Maybe you break up. Maybe something else.

But take it one thing at a time. Get to the problem solving place to assess.

Maybe these help some?

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/downloadabledocuments.html

Galagirl
 
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Greetings derpp,

I don't have a lot I can think of that would help you; it sounds like you are in a pool of quicksand with no way out. This girl your husband has been obsessing about: I am doubtful that she'll go away, even if you declare a veto. After all, he's promised many times to slow down or stop, perhaps intending to keep his promise, but he always breaks his promise. This undermines your trust in him on a fundamental level. Your husband can't handle NRE. He doesn't have self-control.

I think you are at a point where you have to decide if you want to stay with your husband. Don't plan on changing him, because I don't think that's gonna happen. What you see now is what you can expect to get ... five years from now ... 25 years from now ... I'm skeptical about the hope that he can ever change. Maybe if he talks to a therapist? I don't know.

It is sad to speak of it this way, but I'm fresh out of better ideas right now.

Sympathies,
Kevin T.
 
You can't really control your emotions when you meet and fall in love with someone. Sounds like you wanted more of a casual friends with benefits kind of dynamic but he wants a real relationship with her. You nerd to work on yourself and learning how to handle th feeling of resentment you feel because his feelings for her are too strong to just break things off with her. It doesnt sound like she's going anywhere despite him telling you that he will stop talking to her. Your best bet is to create a schedule so your time with him is yours alone and the days he's with her you find an enjoyable activity. Let their relationship run it's course and count this as a failed experiment if you decide you no longer want an open marriage in the future.

My ex did this to me and I left him until he was ready to be in a monogamous relationship with me again because he fell in love with someone who he was only supposed to hook up with once and that is not at all what I signed up for.
 
You can't really control your emotions when you meet and fall in love with someone. Sounds like you wanted more of a casual friends with benefits kind of dynamic but he wants a real relationship with her. You need to work on yourself and learning how to handle the feeling of resentment you feel because his feelings for her are too strong to just break things off with her. It doesnt sound like she's going anywhere despite him telling you that he will stop talking to her. Your best bet is to create a schedule so your time with him is yours alone and the days he's with her you find an enjoyable activity. Let their relationship run it's course and count this as a failed experiment if you decide you no longer want an open marriage in the future.

I am going to take an opposing viewpoint to Inyourendo and say, NO, you to not "need to work on yourself and learn how to handle the feeling of resentment," etc.

You can do whatever you want. You have choices, and they don't all involve lying down and suffering as your husband acts like a green schoolboy with his first crush.

Polyamory is for adults. It takes finesse, and piles of respect for one's partner(s), and self control. We can't choose our emotions, but we can choose to control our BEHAVIORS.

I have been in LTRs with 2 men who went off the deep end for a partner while in relationship with me, using very little self control, being so swept up in NRE they were acting like crazy people. I was the old shoe, the new woman was SO bright and shiny and sexy! That ended up with me feeling used, or like their mom, washing their underwear and shining their shoes to get them ready for their date. Bleh!! Ridiculous. I tried very hard to make things work with them, spent incredible amounts of time talking, went to a poly friendly counselor with one of them (my ex husband), and they continued their behavior and also gaslighted me into thinking it was all somehow MY problem. "Can't you see I love you?" Um, no, telling me you love me is cheap. Actually acting like you love me, care for me, can even SEE my feelings, would show your love.

One of them in particular was like your h, having long talks where he promised this or that, and then he would go on the next day to do whatever he damn well pleased with his new gf. And he'd go one step further and sometimes deny we'd had those talks and made those agreements.

I have been in a poly configuration with my girlfriend for 6 years now. We have both dated men throughout our time together, we have both had NRE up the wazoo for this or that guy. We have NEVER behaved the way your husband is, we have always been considerate of each other, we have shown tenderness and compersion for each other, we have continued to cherish each other and been romantic and spend quantity and quality time together.

Vetoes from the "primary" partner do not work. Telling your husband to dump her will just make her even more desirable, since now she would be forbidden fruit. He'd doubtless go behind your back anyway.

What are your tools, where are your weapons of self defense, what cards do you hold? Since he is so out of control, my first suggestion is therapy. Make an appointment with a poly friendly counselor. It may not save your marriage, but it will strengthen your position, help you sort through your options. Your h may agree to go with you. There is a good chance he won't, from what you said. He'd probably rather be shagging the new and shiny while you do the adult work of sorting through what kind of care you deserve from him, and can request. He has the right to deny to care for your feelings.

If he continues to be so non-caring, you COULD ride out his NRE. Otoh, you could say, fuck it, he's being such a jerk, this does not bode well for any future with him. What if he NRE dies for new girl, and he hooks up with yet another and goes nuts again? This could be a pattern over and over again. Are you game for that?

I wasn't. I broke up with both those guys I referenced upthread. There are other men out there who can handle their NRE and not act like douchecanoes. There are lots of them right on this board.
 
To me, it seems that "own your shit" and "work on yourself" are very, VERY easy to abuse, and use against someone in a manipulative way.

Yes, we all need to admit what our boundaries and hot buttons are, and yes, it's a good idea to figure out why we react the way we do at times, and see if there are healthier ways of doing so.

BUT... my ex-husband was exceptional at using similar phrases and turning them around on me to excuse his behavior.

"Working on myself" does NOT mean I have to be a doormat while you bop merrily along. It does NOT absolve you from criticism or repercussions from your own behavior. It MAY mean that I stop taking your shit altogether.

If you are resentful for real reasons? Why on earth should you have to learn how to deal with that?

At any rate, I'm dealing with a comment that is admittedly a hot button of mine and not the OP's situation. :eek: FWIW, it sounds like Inyourendo also recognized that it's not always about "working on yourself" and told her ex to pound sand. :)

OP, it sounds like he's got a case of the "I wants" - I want this relationship to continue, and it's going to be too tough if I do so on the up and up, so I'm going to lie about it. But... it also sounds like maybe he didn't have a good environment to feel like he could open up about it? It may be worth talking about both sides here and working on a compromise. I agree with Mags - couples therapy may really be a good thing for the both of you. Galagirl has given you some good food for thought, too.

Best of luck...
 
I've been in your husband's shoes, I've been that person in NRE with a secondary partner for the first time, while my husband was upset and wanting me to slow down/stop because he couldn't deal with it. Honestly, the more he told me "don't do this with your lover, don't do that with your lover," the more I got frustrated and wanted to be with the person who wasn't trying to control me. That being said, I also made sure I gave my husband as much of my time, attention, and sex as I always had, so I felt he had no cause to complain, (except he was jealous because I was also giving time, sex, and energy to someone else. )

3 to 4 times a week does seem like a lot for the beginning of a relationship, especially given he's got another longstanding relationship (yours) which needs extra attention. It sucks that your husband has broken some agreements. Sounds like he was trying to placate you. Trying to make him agree to things he doesn't really want to do (stay away from his lover for 3 weeks, etc.) is setting him up to fail. I would suggest building up your own relationship, rather than trying to control theirs.

If he's taking time away from you normally spent together, or texting his girlfriend during your quality time together, or any other concrete thing that's bugging you, you have every right to tell him not to do that. If he's taking her out on nice dates while all he does is watch tv in his underwear on your nights together, yeah, he needs to step up. I think you need to figure out what you want him to do for you--that doesn't include controlling his other relationship.

I'm always surprised when people are upset that sex leads to feelings. Why is it ok for your partner to fuck someone else, but not ok for them to have feelings? Why not just buy him a sex toy if that's all you want this other person to be? I'm not saying it's ok for one partner to run amok over another in the throws of NRE, but I can tell you first hand how painful and frustrating it is to have a partner trying to squash all the beautiful feelings you're having for another human being because he's so worried it will somehow diminish your feelings for him.

I sincerely hope you two can find your comfort zone.
 
I just meant work on herself if she chooses to stay with him. Most people I assume don't want to up and leave their partner because open relationship isn't going their way. Of course leaving him is always an option. As much as we say veto doesn't work saying " im no longer willing to be in a poly relationship with you " is pretty much a veto imo. Its imposing a consequence "either you dump her or I'm gone " either way he has to choose.

It's kind of like in my job working with developmentally disabled clients. We aren't allowed to punish but we can reward, pretty much the same thing with different words. "if you poop your pants at day program we won't go out to eat tonight " is not allowed but "if you dont poop your pants at day program we will go out to eat tonight " is allowed even though it's the same exact thing. I get the desired outcome I want, you get the desired outcome you want.
 
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I just meant work on herself if she chooses to stay with him. Most people I assume don't want to up and leave their partner because open relationship isn't going their way. Of course leaving him is always an option.

Sure, but it takes 2 to tango. It's not all on her shoulders to work on herself, when he obviously has responsibilities as well. If he is acting "manic," wanting 3 or 4 dates a week with new chica, neglecting caring for derpp in the ways she is accustomed to, obviously the derpp isn't going to solve anything merely by working on HERself.
 
To me, it seems that "own your shit" and "work on yourself" are very, VERY easy to abuse, and use against someone in a manipulative way.

...

I completely agree but in situations like this other than dumping her husband who isn't willing to slow down and who lies to placate her I'm not sure what else she can do. That's why I thought dealing with something she can control (her behavior and emotions) was good advice.
 
Sure, but it takes 2 to tango. It's not all on her shoulders to work on herself, when he obviously has responsibilities as well. If he is acting "manic," wanting 3 or 4 dates a week with new chica, neglecting caring for derpp in the ways she is accustomed to, obviously the derpp isn't going to solve anything merely by working on HERself.

It's definitely a case of swinging gone wrong. Seen it so many times
 
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