Children and Polyamory: Merged Threads, General Discussion

I agree with Mohegan. This pisses me off, too. But it also confuses me. Where do people get off being so judgmental?
 
I hope you take some time to read some of the really good threads on here about which you speak. There are quite a few of us that raise kids on here now and there have been many in the past with similar questions. I suggest a search for tags-- children, kids, etc.

As for my personal opinion, I completely understand something of what you might be feeling. When I came out to my family last fall, my mother went to our family doctor and told him that she thought Mono was abusing our child. We were terrified that she would find a way to have our boy removed from our house. I was very distraught that we had to put him through a medical test to see if he was okay, knowing full well that he was. The doctor found nothing and my mum didn't have a leg to stand on with him. This generally doesn't stop her, and we continued to worry that she would call child protective services. This never happened, as we told her that she would not be able to see her grandchild again if she did that.

My experience has indicated that our boy is benefiting greatly from Mono being in our lives. He has a "best buddy" now and is very proud of that fact with his friends. The other day his BFF came over and we all took the boys for lunch. We were crossing a busy road and the newly 7-year olds still were too distractable to pay attention to traffic. My boy held his dad's hand and he turned to his friend and said, "You can hold my 'best buddy's' hand," with a voice full of pride. He was so proud that Mono rode his motorbike beside the car so that they could watch him outside the window, too.

Yup, he is not suffering in the least. My boy knows that I love his dad as much as I love Mono, and that he can love as many people as he wants, too. We tell him that there is no cap on having love in your heart for others and that you can make family with whomever you chose. He understands that, believes that, and it has nothing to do with our sex lives. It has everything to do with love and family.

I feel for you, I really do. It is so sad that this kind of attitude prevails. It does everywhere because of the way we have been conditioned. I hope you are able to move on and find forgiveness. Even better, I hope you are able to educate this therapist, and in doing so, feel more confident about the choices you make. At the same time, I would not see fault in protecting yourself, if you feel threatened, and walking away.
 
Interesting post. The first question I would have is not around what lifestyle a parent was living, but what parts of it were appropriate, and especially appropriate for the understanding and phase (age) that the children were in, and the openness and honesty of what is going on.

"Damage" occurs to us when we are young just by living. I feel the biggest threat to the outlook of children comes from seeing dishonesty, lack of integrity etc. When we're young we're trying to understand the rules of the road, and in order to do that, we have to be able to accept something as being true, accurate. When you are caught in an environment where you are constantly discovering lies, half truths and various deceptions, it weakens your confidence and creates the impression that that is the way life needs to be lived.

Add to this that the kids are living in the "current culture," the same as we all are, and we all know how cruel that culture can be at young ages. The choices we make as parents WILL have impacts on our children if they are public, or even something that the culture we live in can find suspicious, if noticed.

It seems there aren't any easy pat answers. Each situation is unique in what will be the best or worst. But the one thing (ironic) that holds true is the same thing we all talk about all the time about between ourselves-- honesty, good communication, integrity.

Children can easily grasp love/connection between more than one person! It's a default part of their lives. Most children have multiple people in their lives they love, and that love them! They naturally grasp the different levels between parents, uncles, cousins, grandparents, etc. It's all the same, and yet different, but generally good.

Only as they reach an age of some sexual awareness, and begin to get some inkling of what the broad culture accepts as "normal," does any question arise for them. This is when it seems to get a bit sticky.

Kids don't need (and usually prefer not to) to know about adults' sex lives until it becomes appropriate, and that time varies. But when it comes, the key is the same-- honesty (to an appropriate degree) and integrity.

Oops, interruption. Have to run. More later.

GS
 
I have a question. If you are seeing a therapist, aren't they supposed to keep your conversations private and not disclosed to anyone, unless it's potentially hazardous to your health or the health of someone else? (I.e., you make a threat that you are going to commit suicide or you threaten to kill the mayor or something.) If so, then I would, as you are letting her know you are parting ways, let her know you intend to inform the medical board of her transgressions. I mean, you don't want her to be doing something that she's not supposed to be doing right?

Your therapist sounds like she really sucks and is more into working for the gooberment, which I HATE. Where would we be without the gooberment to save us from ourselves?

(The gooberment stole me from my biological mother when I was three, only to adopt me out to a family which treated me as though I was a prize, and not their child. Anyway, this is about you, not me.)

Let her know that she really needs to reread her privacy disclosures and separate her therapy business from her social-work job. Then, go to her supervisors and let them know about how she is using her therapy business to disrupt peoples lives with her social-work job. Also, a report to the medical board (or whoever she got her therapy license from) is in order.
 
TL4everu2 said:
If you are seeing a therapist, aren't they supposed to keep your converstaions private and not disclosed to anyone unless it's potentially hazardous to your health or the health of someone else? If so, then I would, as you are letting her know you are parting ways, let her know you intend to inform the medical board of her transgressions.
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Is a therapist bound by the same rules/laws as psychiatry?
 
I agree with you, TL4. After a chat about how what she said was inappropriate, if her attitude doesn't change and no apology is forthcoming, I certainly would do the same.
 
Ariakas said:
Is a therapist bound by the same rules/laws as psychiatry?
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Excellent question, and I have no idea. Which is why I asked that same question (or at least very CLOSE to the same) in the first sentence of my reply. ;)
 
In Canada, therapists (and everyone else for that matter) are required by law to report cases of child abuse or endangerment to the MCFD (Ministry for Children and Families). So by the letter of the law, the therapist would be doing nothing wrong by reporting this "child endangerment" but obviously the therapist is forcing her own morality on a situation that she really doesn't know enough about. I think this law sucks in that it allows close minded people the protection of the law in situations like this.
 
assets said:
In Canada, therapists (and everyone else for that matter) are required by law to report cases of child abuse or endangerment to the MCFD (Ministry for Children and Families). So by the letter of the law, the therapist would be doing nothing wrong by reporting this "child endangerment" but obviously the therapist is forcing her own morality on a situation that she really doesn't know enough about. I think this law sucks in that it allows close minded people the protection of the law in situations like this.
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This is similar in the US, as well. Anyone can make a call to the DCFS (Department of Children & Family Services) and they will look into the allegations made by the caller. If they are found to be false, the "accused" has 10(?) days to request the caller's information, in which they can actually sue the caller for making false accusations.

I agree with the previous postings. This therapist is making judgments about a situation she knows little to nothing about. The only problem is, she is still just doing her job. *Puts hands up placatingly* OK, not what people usually want to hear, but this is why it is important to find out about any therapist, counselor, shrink, etc., before seeing them, AND to not only give certain information on the first visit, but to GET information on that visit. Do not be afraid to ask a bunch of questions of this person who is supposed to get to know you and all of your secrets. Ask them how they feel about alternative relationships, and you can then list a bunch of different types without giving away your own situation. Ask them how they feel about religion and how it plays in their working opinions. If the therapist gives vague answers, or in any way makes you uncomfortable with their answers, thank them for their time and find someone else.

To the hidden OP, I really hope that this therapist doesn't go through with her threats, but be prepared if she does. And just remember, if the allegations are found to be false, see if there is any way to file charges for false accusations or not. The purpose would be to get a "refund" for any court costs, etc., if applicable. (Not sure on how the court system works up there, but that's how it would work down here.) I wish you the best of luck and courage.
 
Unfortunately, it really does depend on the laws where you are living what can and can't be used against you.

I know that where I live, all calls to children's services are confidential, no matter what. That resulted in years of being investigated over and over again while my husband was fighting for custody of his son. Now we know for certain (because of her own admission) that those calls were all from his ex. They were also all bullshit. The irony to this specific scenario is that she was alleging abuse/neglect of her son for a variety of reasons. More than once she brought up GG living in our home, and my sister, as well.

That particular detail was of no interest to the children's services investigators. They didn't give a damn who was sleeping with who or where. What they cared about was who cared for the children, what were they fed, how were they disciplined, etc. They were adamant that unless there was a belief that sex was happening in front of or with the children, they were NOT interested in the sexual activities of the adults in the household.

But that's where we live, not everywhere.
 
Sounds like you had some decent workers checking out your case. Just like with the therapist, the case workers can put their own beliefs and morals on their decisions, lawful or not. But sometimes you get the one person who actually is more interested in following the rules of the job and not the rules of their own church, etc. Someone who realizes that not every family is the same, but as long as the children or not neglected or abused, then there are no grounds for removal.
 
So I ask this: is it wrong?
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Is what wrong? It's really dependent upon whom you ask, regardless of exactly what you are asking about. Different people have different ideas of right and wrong.

Are we forced to keep our polyamorous selves closeted from our own children?
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This is a question no one can really answer for you. For me, there is no way I would even try. But I have assessed the risk where I live, and concluded that the risk is worth the honesty with my children. We're moving, and the area we're talking about moving to actually has more current laws against poly-type relationships. We may have to look a little deeper into moving there because of this. Without knowing the precise laws where you live, it would be impossible to help you assess the level of risk for you, specifically.

Does polyamory foster an environment which is not healthy?
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Define healthy. See, again, this is something that different people have differing ideas on. For example, I really feel that the healthiest eating habits would be vegan/whole/fresh/raw foods. I don't actually eat that way. More and more each year, but not there yet. But my family would argue (and have) til they are blue in the face that I am just being ridiculous, because there is nothing unhealthy about eating meat/dairy/cooked foods.

has anybody else encountered these issues?
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Exact issue, no. Similar, yes. Many people have, and I am one.

It sucks. You are welcome to PM me, whoever you are, or you can PM through Mono. I believe that he and/or RP would be happy to tell you, whoever you are, that I am not one who you need worry about.

The hardest part of being a parent is having to make tough decisions that are "which is more wrong?" type decisions.

BIG HUGS to you.
 
I wish I could get people to think past their biases

What you have described here is exactly why my boyfriend won't talk to the therapist/social worker at the VA. It's a licensed psychologist or nothing.

I know you're not going back, but I would love to hear how she might have replied to the following questions:

Do you feel that a household in which the parents have divorced and remarried is inherently unhealthy for the children, and that they should be removed from it, even though the children are aware that their father and mother are in love (and/or sleeping with) people other than each other?

Do you feel that a household in which one or more parents is single and dating is inherently unhealthy for the children and that the children should be removed from their dating parent, even though the children are aware that their parent is seeing prospective partners, perhaps even more than one?

Do you feel that a household in which a parent is married and has remarried several times is inherently unhealthy, and that the children should be removed from the situation, even though the children are aware that their parent has loved many people over the course of his or her lifetime and that the other adult figures in their life have changed more than once?

Do you feel that having had an affair should disqualify you from having custody of your children in the event of a divorce? Do you feel that if one parent or the other has an affair, and the parents choose not to get divorced, that their children should then be taken from them?

Do you feel that it is healthier for children to grow up knowing that their parent's love is lasting and permanent (even if they also love other people), or for their parents to split up if one of them sleeps around or they fall for someone else?
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It is possible that being raised in a poly household could have a negative affect on a child, if the other children in their life make fun of them for it, if they are social outcast because of it, if they feel like a freak. But these are effects of their surrounding environment, not of the household itself. Being Jewish in a Southern Baptist town, or white in a black neighborhood, or first generation American could all also cause the same scars.
I personally feel that hiding your lifestyle from your children makes them more likely to view it as something shameful or embarrassing, but I'm just going off what makes sense to me. I haven't extensively studied child development or anything.
 
In my opinion, living in a poly household would only cause "damage" to a child's mental health or development if you held them to traditional standards. Which "normal" family has one father, one mother, both living monogamously under one roof, never having had an affair, etc., etc., etc.? Basically, a TV family like the Cleavers. Unfortunately, we all know this just is not the "norm" in today's society. So, I ask, what is the "norm"? I further ask, who defines the "norm," and what makes them the standing authority? What are their credentials? What medical proof do they have that shows that living in an openly poly family is automatically damaging to a child's mental or social health?
 
MonoVCPHG said:
Is it wrong? For the sake of the children, are we forced to keep our polyamorous selves closeted from our own children? Does polyamory foster an environment which is not healthy?
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This was the central question. Being pretty much a relativist, I'm a poor one to connect with right & wrong in any absolute sense. Each situation is unique and what's best and how it's approached has to fit accordingly.

Almost the same thing with "healthy." Define "healthy." Hard to see black & white there, also.

Like the examples you gave with gay parents, etc., so much depends on how you can explain that your parents are different than many others. How can you explain that where it's understood as a positive rather than a negative? And how prepared are you (in ability and effort) to support those children with love and substance when they may become exposed to the almost inevitable attacks from the "mainstream"?

The same concerns and methods come into play whenever parents adopt a belief system outside the mainstream, be it religious, political, social etc., etc. They need tools to be individual thinkers, to be thick-skinned, and they need a chance to see honesty & integrity around them, and to live that way themselves. That's the kind of stuff you need to be "healthy."

GS
 
drgnsyr said:
Do you feel that a household in which the parents have divorced and remarried is inherently unhealthy for the children and that they should be removed from it, even though the children are aware that their father and mother are in love (and or sleeping with) people other than each other?

Do you feel that a household in which one or more parents is single and dating is inherently unhealthy for the children and that the children should be removed from their dating parent, even though the child is aware that their parent is seeing prospective partners - perhaps even more than one?

Do you feel that a household in which a parent is married and remarried several times is inherently unhealthy and that the child should be removed from the situation, even though the child is aware that their parent has loved many people over the course of his or her lifetime and that the other adult figures in their life have changed more than once?

Do you feel that having had an affair should disqualify you from having custody of your children in the event of a divorce? Do you feel that if one parent or the other has an affair and the parents choose not to get divorced, that their children should then be taken from them?

Do you feel that it is healthier for a child to grow up knowing that their parent's love is lasting and permanent (even if they also love other people) or for their parents to split up if one of them sleeps around or they fall for someone else?
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These are great questions! They would be useful for anyone who questions whether a poly household is a healthy environment. Thank you for putting these up.
 
Yes, thanks for the questions, drgnsyr. Logically, from that therapist's point of view, there'd be a lot of children better removed from their biological parents, then.

I can't say that our children suffer in any way from living with three parents, quite the contrary. It really seems they feel more relaxed and happy when all of us are around (which is not always possible), probably because we are more relaxed and have more time to spend with them. There will probably come a time (when they reach puberty, for instance) when they might be embarrassed about it somehow (but at that time you're embarrassed about anything your parents do), so there will definitely be problems we have to face (but parents always do). But I don't see how this should harm them, provided that we do our homework and go on living our lifestyle and talk to them about it when they ask questions.
 
May, it's possible that as teens they will be embarrassed, but it's quite possible that they won't care. I have four kids, 18, 14, 10, 3. They all know, as does my godson, who is 13, and the other two girls who lived here, 17, 18. And my daughters' friends all know, including a 17-year old boy I always tell everyone is just AMAZING in his working understanding of relationships, love and life.

Not a one cared. Not a single one. They all come over and hang out by choice. They are all comfortable with ANY of us and they all enjoy our company. In fact, it's not unusual for them to take one or another of us out with them when they go to the movies or on dates with friends.

When a child grows up with something as "normal" to them, they don't tend to stop seeing it as normal.

Now, knowing WHAT you do sexually-- I've NEVER met a teen that didn't think the idea of their parents DOING sex was gross and didn't want to hear about it. But not because of WHAT or WHO they are doing it with, as much as not wanting to think of their parents in a sexual way. So much of a teen's thoughts are sexually based, but they instinctually understand that their parents don't belong in that section of their mind. :)
 
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