Sailing Solo

Part II
I told Prof I have an OKC dinner date. He replied that he wants the guy's OKC profile name. I replied that my friend and I have security worked out and not to worry.
He actually adopted some of my check-in precautions for Ms Text, so no way he can argue that I am idiot when I meet new people.
I am trying to be understanding that they are not used to me dating and for whatever reasons are worrying. But right now, I am ticked off with the pair of them because it is not coming across as caring it is coming across as controlling.
 
Kip called me from a hotel on a business trip at 6 am No mention of the argument or that I owed him an apology, just that he wished I was with him having fun hotel sex.

It took 2 phone calls, a few texts and an email to get this calmed down with Prof. I had to dig deep into why I was so against sharing dating details and came to the conclusion that the reason I went from curious to not wanting to know anything was how all, bar one, metamour type interactions had not gone well. Mostly I got to hear how the other partners were not happy with me and how Prof spending time with me impacted them and I get in the ear from Kip about Prof. It became less stressful to cut out all communication about metamours.
Prof agreed it did get that way and could see why I went to the extreme end of not wanting to discuss. We agreed to go back to full disclosure but with some editing of news and updates, to try and keep it generally positive. He warned about good news creating jealousy and gave the example of having "the best sex ever" with a different partner. I pointed out that we should be able to be sensitive but if not then go back to limiting information sharing.
He said I need to not feel responsible for how he dates other people and that I am overly sensitive to trying to create equality and fairness.
He is going to write 2 lists of names, the regulars and the occasionals and I can start familiarizing myself with the basic details. Apparently he talks about me with all of them @@
Exhausting, communicating is exhausting because I stress clean, on the plus side the house is spotless. :D
 
I think OKtechie is flaking. A flaky OKC person? How can it be?:eek:
More communication with Prof about communication, I did have to say it was wearing me out. He says he enjoys it.
I got to see the lists today, I had only heard of 1 of the regulars, Ms Friday Bike. I think there maybe a Ms Chicago but not sure. Ms White Pickett and Ms Bike are no longer partners. Most names on the occasional list I didn't know either. I am ok with the number of partners it is the fear of the weight of relationship problems. We can hash out some details when we next meet.
 
Getting excited about Prof coming back. He is coming over on Saturday but I hope makes it sooner. He arrives back tomorrow, not sure what time but probably late and he said he has things planned for Friday but I hope he tries to come over.

I might see Kip on Friday, it has been 3 weeks and I question why we continue. We are however chatting a lot. I have suggested a few times recently that we call it quits but he said he likes the sex and me too much. I am currently not annoyed about the lack of face to face time just kind of wonder why we bother.

I think I am going to see Dan next week for lunch. I have to travel for work and possibly will be somewhere near him. He said he would come and meet me. Not holding my breath.

Been thinking a little about Prof's lists. He has one where he names people he used to date and would like to date in the future. I would have no-one on that list, when I am done I am done. I want to see Dan mostly out of curiosity, not a wish to date again. Prof and I are so different. He is Mr Social Butterfly and I am more the hermit on the mountain top, one visitor at a time.

After putting in a huge effort on my project on Monday and last week I have stopped again, first draft is very much done but now the piddly fiddly crap. I wonder how close I am to the minimum required to pass. I have a feeling I am over doing it.
 
Some kind of brief catch up with Prof is tentatively scheduled for tomorrow. I was supposed to meet Kip but the scheduling gods did not cooperate, totally changes from my end, but as a result I will be in Prof's neck of the woods for a short time. it might work.
Dan wants to meet twice I think next week on the same day. I said I can't do that, lunch is pretty much the only option.
I am so tired. Work is wiping me out day after day. I leave some things early to get to the next thing late. It is insane. I forgot my lunch, but keep a stash of protein bars in the car, life savers today. I had 2.
I want some crazy mad fucking.
 
I did get to see Prof for a little less than an hour during the day. He told me there would be no sex cause he was tired, but he did manage a quickie. He came round in the evening too for story time and some Dr Who. I was totally done by 9:30pm and had to go to bed. He napped with me for an hour and left by 10:30pm. No more sex.
I have a busy day with the kids but hope to get a nap in there somewhere and yoga helps.
I had to cancel Kip but hopefully can do a little on Monday.
Dan is all keen for Thursday lunch. We chatted for a bit online yesterday and discussed when I have time slots and general availability. He is looking for occasional but has weekend availability, unlike Kip.
I don't even remember what I agreed with Prof about weekends. Second Saturdays or second Friday and Saturday. We agreed that the weekend day time is our own unless we have something special planned.
I suppose we need to have to discussion about the lists and dating tonight. Mostly this type of conversation works out fine but I still get my knickers in a twist before hand.
 
I don't understand why he wants you both to share so much information. Lists - really? Gah! I just couldn't even look at a list, if one was presented to me. If I want specifics, I'll ask, but I'd rather things be general and only shared if moved to do so for some reason. Why is he so keen on this? Did he say? A few posts back, you said it felt controlling when there were comments and advice about you dating. I can't help but think there is an element of that, and/or protectiveness, and not just curiosity. But his need to report to you these names, etc., just mystifies me. I would find it irksome if I were in your shoes.
 
Hi NYC,
I totally know where the need to over share comes from cause he sort of told me. I did ask him why I needed so much information and in lists and he said, " I was worried that if I left someone off a list then you wouldn't let me see them in the future, so I wrote to down to make sure I got them all."

Not something I would ever say but who would have? Ms Text. It is the one year anniversary of her death next week, I guess she is very much on his mind as this time last year was all about hospice care and end of life.

Their model of Open was extremely controlling, remember the pages of rules? There was a relationship therapist, many tears, much anxiety, anti-anxiety medication, veto and all that stuff. It was a high drama, much talk and sit down discussion stressful relationship.

The "model" he and I have been doing is mostly Don't Ask Don't Tell from my end and up till now he hasn't really needed to ask because I haven't had a first date in a little over a year. Now that I have shown a some interest in meeting people and scheduled two meets, he is floundering around looking for direction and structure. I am not being forthcoming and it is causing him anxiety, so he is over-sharing in an attempt to get me to share a little more.

I downplay the extent of our involvement. I know he wants to tell me about how he considers me "primary" but I don't want to hear it and have avoided the conversation, as I avoid many. I need to try and meet him in the middle more. He comes from the "discuss it to death" side and I come from the "blank stare, stop talking, lets go do something fun" side. He wouldn't call it "discuss to death" he calls it "open and honest communication." That highlights my sucky attitude when it comes to this stuff. Most of what I do all day is listen, even boss has started coming and telling me all. I don't want to be in that mode in my down time.
I have a retired friend whose partner used to say to her,"you spend all day listening and being patient, dealing with crisis, that you have nothing left for me at night." It is so true. So while I complain, I really do need to make more of an effort. He is so good to me, he deserves better.
 
Atlantis said:
...Most of what I do all day is listen, even boss has started coming and telling me all. I don't want to be in that mode in my down time...
Click to expand...

This very much resonates with me! All day long people tell me their shit and I empathize and make suggestions...NOT wanting that in my "real life". If there is an actual issue that needs to be addressed, fine, we can address it - otherwise, I don't really NEED to be your sounding-board. Boil it down and tell me what you mean, what will work for you. I can't do your work, on top of my work, on top of everyone else's work...I just need a break sometimes.
 
Wow, one year already. Of course she's on his mind. And yes, he's good to you. He's amazing. But you are good to him, and for him, too. It is precisely the things about you that are so different from Ms. Text that bring him joy, and a sense of relief that he can relax and be himself. I don't think your attitude about discussing things sucks - you simply want a relationship that is easygoing and angst-free, in which you can find respite from the demands of your work-life. There is nothing wrong with that.

Yet, after all this time, he actually thought you would tell him who he can and cannot see if he didn't present a list? I find that hard to fathom - it's so not you, and I can't imagine that he doesn't see how much you do not want the kind of relationship he had with Ms. Text. Is he thinking he needs to give you a revised list if/when he wants to fuck or date someone new? I'm a talker - I like to discuss and periodically revisit relationship issues, and I think open, honest communication is important - but the idea of his list kind of floors me.

When I read your post, the thought occurred to me that maybe he feels it's okay to do things your way -- for now -- but he wants to move toward something different. If he ever gets some kind of agreement from you to be in a "primary" type of position with him, perhaps he thinks that will mean that then you're going to do things the "right" way, the way poly "should be" done. Not out of meanspiritness at all, but out of having been conditioned by a relationship that had so, so many rules.

It's a good thing to meet him in the middle on some things, but not everything, and not if you have to bend so much that it stresses and/or irritates you, or means you can't be yourself. Maybe I am too suspicious for my own good, but I wonder if he wants you to have that kind of "authority" so he feels he would have the same kind of say-so over you, if you start seeing more guys. People are mesmerized by free spirits -- and yet there's often a belief that, at some point, the free spirit must be reigned in. But I could be totally off in my perception.
 
NYC, thank you for the kind and thoughtful words.
We discussed dating and things just a little.
He said the information exchange is not some kind of deal or balancing act, (which was my guess) he said I don't need to ask if I don't want to know but he wants to be able to ask questions and me to answer. He wants "open and honest communication." He does not ask the other ladies what they do in their dating lives and has no real interest. He said I am important and he wants to know I am safe. He is happy that I don't ask him much because it makes dating drama free but wants me to know that he will answer any thing I ask. I think he can be fairly sure I wont ask for social security numbers and first pet names.
The list thing is him being thorough and "open". He told me this morning that he forgot to add someone to it. It is so very much a hangover from Ms Text days. I did ask a few basic questions but couldn't muster much enthusiasm for it. He understands that I don't want to hear the negatives and I hope we can keep any discussion of the partners to light general chit chat. I do think I should at least make the effort to know the names of the other ladies. He is going to meet Ms Music for dinner tonight. I was calling her Ms Friday Bike but I think that is someone different. I get the feeling that he prefers my approach to things but during the time of possible change he reverted back to the familiar. I know he wants the same style of "engagement or date" texts that he used to have with Ms Text. We will have to negotiate that when and if it comes up.
I took my OKC profile down last night. I was standing in the kitchen doing dishes, contemplating writing a response to a married man on OKC with a list of rules a mile long, then looking at my plants in the garden wondering why I bothered with potted plants this year as I really don't have the time and now have to water and go buy fertilizer; and it dawned on me, if I feel I haven't got time to take care of 10 small container plants then I really shouldn't be dating.:eek: I have no real desire to meet people just to talk poly, Prof does and I thought I might give it a whirl but meeting a married man to talk rules is even less appealing than watering containers everyday.

I know Prof has put me in "primary" spot, I just haven't wanted to admit it, it is synonymous with too many unpleasant words and feelings. This was his "weekend off" cause I have the kids, but he spent both nights with us one of them overnight.
He asked me last night to plan a road trip to meet his brother. I place no special or particular importance on meeting the family, he has meet all kinds of mine at this point but he does place importance on it, seems to be an American thing. I said I will not have any time longer than 2 nights in a row after this summer due to the ex. Prof said bring the kids :eek: I replied, "Ask your brother first."
 
Fortunately, I took up emailing my project to my professor as a self check and motivator kind of thing. Fortunate, because my hard drive died and I had not been the world's best at backing to a thumb drive or the cloud. My last big back up had been 3 weeks ago, the last email 11 days. I was down to one formatting issue then ready to submit. So probably lost about 8-10 hours or work. Could have been a hell of a lot worse.
I saw Kip on Monday. Some extremely great fucking. I forget how much he rocks my naked sexy world, then remember oh about 10 seconds after he arrives. I think there was one "hi" then got to it. I only had a little over an hour but we made every second count.
The ex is working up to a holiday fuck up. He informed me of his vacation plans which coincidentally end the day before the we are due to leave. WoW! didnt see that coming! Prof said to be prepared to make the 7 hours each way drive to go get the kids and leave, possibly even get flights from there to our departure airport. He is being very calm about it. I am feeling defeated by it.
I sent Prof a text this afternoon saying I thought his life would be so much easier without me and my kids, computer, ex, etc. and I appreciate all he does for me. He replied that I should not think that and he appreciates the life experiences. We did talk a little on the phone in the afternoon and he was asking what adventures I have planned for the summer. I have maybe 2 or 3 experience ideas in the works ;)
 
The computer ate my post :( The tech gods are laughing at me this week.

Meet Dan, went well, fun to catch up, don't know if I can be bothered to deal with someone who doesn't put much effort into scheduling. I think it means that they can't be bothered to see me.

Kip is fine, has a date next week. He wanted to share, I didn't ask. But I did ask if he told her how much control his wife has over dating hours. He said no.

Prof and I have a fun weekend planned going to an event tomorrow afternoon that runs into the evening.

I am barely holding on to my sanity with work, counting down the 3 months till vacation time.

I need a lot more sex in my life.
 
I decided ( for now ) that I want to start seeing Dan again as an infrequent sex partner. I had a good fun weekend with Prof but the amount of sex that I want is not the amount of sex that he can handle. I was pretty disappointed on Saturday night and it was ok Sunday morning. He came round last night to talk about my series of texts and said a flat out "no" to any more sex because he was worn out.
We were driving on Sunday,Craigslist came up and I asked if he had dated people from Craigslist, he said no but Ms Admin had and told me about it.
I had a think and then sent him a message asking if it would be ok for me to date from Craigslist. I then asked about what exactly he wanted to know about my dating life and it got to the point that he said we needed to talk in person.
We did not really come to any conclusions, I said that I want him to be ok with me doing whatever I want to do and not have to discuss it, he said he is not ok with that. I said Ms Admin gets to do what she wants and he said something along the lines of not he is not planning a long term future with her, but did with me and did I want the same? Yes, I do.
I compromised by giving a few bits of info and saying I wanted to see Dan on occasion. Prof said he is not ok with that level of communication and when exactly did I imagine I had the time to do this?
Prof has a number of out of town and out of state trips planned, so that works for time. I told him that I would not take away from his time and I would make it that he never notices or knows. That was not acceptable either. Neither did the argument that we are both "single" ( per his OKC profile ) and that means we can do whatever we want.
This is not a hill I will die on. If it is that important to him then I will either talk more or just not add Dan till I feel ready to be more open.
He also said that I can be emotionally messy around my period and hard work to deal with. I am going to ask for a little clarification on that one. I asked Kip about it today and he agreed that I can be up and down and predictably irrational around my period. He and Prof both say that they try to keep track but ignore me when I break up or get annoyed with them as I will be back to normal in a couple of days
I am going to make myself a visual reminder and really cut down on communication for the preceding 48 hours of my period and see if that helps.
I can't really ignore it if they are both saying the same thing. And there is me imagining I am Ms Easy Going. It is a bit of a shock to realise I am hard work. Bit of an eye opener.
 
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Whaaa? Now you are asking Prof for his permission to date others? When did this development happen? You don't tell him what he can do nor whom he can date. I don't understand why you are giving him the power to decide whom you can or cannot fuck, especially when the sex isn't always great or enough with him. Are you sure you're not just feeling guilty about how well he treats you and how much he pays for? Because you can still have the relationship on your terms, you know. You don't have to give up your autonomy or turn off your desires out of feeling obligated.

I'm sorry if I'm coming across like a busy-body, but I find your last post rather alarming, Atlantis. Ms. Admin can do whatever she wants because he doesn't want to build a future with her, but you can't... Madonna/Whore complex much? Jeez!

Not to mention the incredibly judgmental attitude he and Kip both expressed about how you are "hard to handle" when you're menstruating. I'm sorry, but it all smacks of wanting to find some way to control you, make you less of a challenge - but, dammit, most men need that kind of a challenge to help them be the best they can be. Ultimately, it seems they want you to change (but what about them?) in ways that would shrink you, make you into someone that is less than who you are. Please be careful not to acquiesce and become a smaller, more rigid version of yourself to please them. Your one or two posts before this also had me a bit concerned as well.
 
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Hi NYC, Wise words. I have put a lot of thinking time into this.
I woke up to a message from Kip, "You are nuttier than a fruit cake, but that is why I love you." He basically said what you did NYC, that I was very quirky, kinky but very together in dealing with life, things like the ex, advancing my career while being a single parent etc
He later clarified the period comment by saying I was so stable the rest of the time that hormonal weirdness was very obvious and hard to deal with. He said he was used to it and now just sits it out.
One of my very good friends popped into my office unannounced and I asked her about the Prof thing and shared the NYCindie advice. She said concurred and added; very emotionally stable, not prone to any drama or random tears, that I let Prof do whatever he liked without interference and it is not too much to expect the same. She added that if I don't want to talk about things then I shouldn't have to and probably should say less than I currently do. She also felt he was coming across as possessive, jealous and insecure in this particular situation and was pushing my buttons like he did over the haircut and telling me I drink too much.
I think she is onto something there. I think he is deliberately getting me riled up about unrelated topics as a way to express how unhappy he is. Diversionary tactics...it is working quite well.
Things might not even work out with Dan at all and I could simply let it drop for now, but it will come up again next time I express an interest in another male, so looks like I will have to draw a line in the sand on principal. I am not looking forward to it. I love my Wednesday night break and will disappointed if i have to spend it defending my independence.
 
We did not discuss anything on Wednesday which was a relief. The delay has also given me time to really think things through and ask him if he wants to open the door to rules and regulations. If he does, then I don't want him to date anyone with boobs bigger than mine, that would make me very insecure. And I want every weekend night, and no buying or receiving gifts from partners, and no meeting partners kids, and no eating spicy food with other people cause that is our special thing, and no calling other partners "partners" they must be referred to as "casual dates," no spending more than 16 hours in a row with anyone, no sending or receiving of messages when we are together, that makes me veeeeeeery insecure. We should probably bring back veto too. No concert, theater or outdoor events. No indoor events either. No photos. No holding hands in public. No introducing casual dates to people I know. Do not let dates touch neighbour's cat when it visits, I have a special relationship with the cat. No buying dinner for casual dates, they must pay half. I have a separate list of sex things that must not be done with casual dates. No letting dates meet people I know too. Should we see one of your dates in public you must ignore her and leave the area immediately. No vacations with dates because that violates the 16 hour rule. No seeing the same person more than once a week, once a month or less is optimal. Should I feel in need of you when you are on a date, I expect you to cancel the date and meet my needs immediately.
I am sure I will think of more.
Phew.
Oh yes....dates must not leave any personal items in your home or I will trash them. No having dates preferred drink or food items in your house. I will snoop around your house, in your trash, on your phone and email if I get the chance to find out what you are doing. You must text me anytime you plan to have sex with a date and text me when dates are over. All meeting with women must be classified as either sex or not sex meetings and I must approve before hand. No dates with anyone I consider very attractive. No feelings must develop for dates, if either you or she does then you must inform me and then break up with them immediately. No special event holidays such as 4th of July or Xmas, I get to spend all of them with you. Should I feel insecure about this arrangement I will ask you to shut down all dates and cut off all partners till I feel better.

Ah yes, the good old days.
 
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I made up the ones about the boobs and spicy food, the rest are real!

Prof and I still haven't discussed the information/dating issue. He wanted to make a proper time arrangement to talk but hasn't come up with anything since. It has been a weird few days. I decided to limit myself to 2 texts a day with Prof. It was really hard and and I felt the lack of connection. I know folks out there happily go for days or weeks without much communication with partners but it really doesn't work for me. He told me last night that didn't know why I thought it was a good idea, and to go back to normal, so we mostly spent time on catch-up as opposed to issues. I didn't want to get into that kind of conversation during camp night either.

We went glamping last night. I wanted to take the kids camping and finally got a spot after being on multiple wait lists. It was the weekend that I don't expect to see Prof but he wanted to come round Saturday night and I told him we won't be home as we were going camping but he was welcome to come too. Kind of good he did because it was sooooooooooo cold we all slept in the pop-top instead. But it was fun, we went on a bike ride, a whole 2 miles :rolleyes: it seemed to be up steep hills in both directions! We went on a lovely walk this morning and I very much enjoyed Mother's Day, all I wanted was to spend time with my kids.

I haven't heard from Kip in a week, someone he had been chatting too and met once flaked on the second date, so he has shut down.

I heard once this week, briefly, from Dan and I am letting go of any expectations I had for him. I am back to doubting the point of even trying with him. I thought it could be convenient but seems like he is not prepared to make much of an effort, same as it was 2.5 years ago.
 
Kip popped up his head today. I am going to be childish and ignore him for a day or two, he doesn't like it when I don't respond promptly.
I would like another regular partner. I need to put some effort into it.
 
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